God - the metaphor wrongly perceived?

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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Yes, I know, I am back at it again.

However, it is important to know that much of the early language humanity developed was solely based on religious speech and the use of metaphor.

Many people used the same metaphors in different cultures for different meanings. So, what is said in one language, could mean something completely different in another language.

So, that brings us back to the "metaphor" and the basic usage.

GOD, the word itself, is a metaphor. It describes a state of being that Jesus' work entailed. The state of being Jesus wanted for his followers was pure power of limitless potential and unbridled wisdom, to love compassionately oneself and others.

Thus, the "GOD" metaphor a misconception, as interpreted.

Feel free to weigh in?
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As was mentioned on another thread concerning perseptions.
  
  If I preceive correctly ? I again have to agree with you.
  I do not see the question as deep but a simply truth.
  As long as we are not debating the existence of but rather the definition for.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let me make sure I understand what you are saying: that "God" is a description of the limitless potential of humanity, rather than an actual being. And that "God" as commonly envisioned today is a misconception of the metaphor for unlimited compassion and love for all of humanity and oneself.
  
  If I correctly interpreted what you are saying, then I would agree that seems plausible.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is not plausible, I described Jesus' work and what it entailed. His teachings was exactly that teaching - "GOD" the word is strictly a metaphor used to describe the power of each person. It's proven fact, even by his own words, if you care to use them.
  
  There is no literal translation to be interpreted. There is only truth, which must reveal itself, when necessary for advancement of the species.
  
  Exactly, the same way language evolved, it was necessary to integrate society.
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  PrettyPantherposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe in God as defined by any organized religion and I am not a scholar of what Jesus said, so I was merely saying that your explanation could be truth, insofar as my limited knowledge would allow me to know.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Let's start with this one statement you made. I suppose yo uhave proof that what you said is correct. I ask where your proof came from. I also ask how you know for a fact that this is how it was in the beginning.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  First off, your last statement to me, was one that I remember and that is that you choose not to talk to me about it.
  
  Therefore, this shall be my only reply to you. I see you cannot follow through on anything you say, so with that said. Have a great day!
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh well. I guess I forgot about that. Go your way and I'll go God's way.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Cagsil
  
  Jesus was no god; nor it stands for Jesus.Neither Jesus created anything nor he sustains anything. The Universe existed before his birth and changed not iota with his birth. Jesus died so he was mortal' the Creator God Allah YHWH is immortal. The writer of the OP has in fact no idea as to what God is. He needs some pondering over it.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your words are meaningless. Your obvious delusion has already been proven by your actions within the forum community and does not deem a reply, but I am replying to let you know that the value of your words is non-existent.
  
  I do this so you can understand that this will the only post I have for you. When you decide to wake up from your dream world, please do come back and post.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Cagsil
  
  Don't be angry, please. What I understood from you wrong; or what I said which you did not understand? Please elaborate to reconcile in peace.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Rochelle Frankposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think you are right. How can the creation describe the Creator?
  If I make a clay pot, does it understand who I am and what is in my mind?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Rochelle Frank
  
  I agree with you.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  On a different note Rochelle, I can describe my creator.
  
  My parents are my creator(s), the conception took hold. Thus, I was created. Therefore, is not my parents "GOD" because they can create another being?
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  Rochelle Frankposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Parents are a good 'metaphor' for The Creator. Most, or at least many, religions call their deity Father or Mother.
  Human parents don't know exactly HOW their physical actions make "their" creation, or why and how their creation took hold.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thus, leaving only one conclusion. The most average person cannot grasp the concept of life itself.
  
  Thank you for helping me to show that. Much appreciated.
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  Rochelle Frankposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That was, pretty much, my point as well.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there are many layers of parent. the parent is also the gene parents who wanted to merge to cure a weakness. in that level, the "parent" knows what its doing.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is nonsense. "Trial and error" is far more appropriate.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  this is an altogether new debate.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No it is not. Your need to ascribe human emotions, needs, wants and actions to a non-sentient process is where the word "god" comes from.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  we've had this long debate before, mark. it has nothing to do with my need to do anything but more your need to purge external gods from your system, their system the system.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No. It is all to do with your need. I will only ever react to your need to spread the nonsense. You do not invent a god - I do not react. Simple and no matter how many times you repeat the same thing over and over and over - It will not come true.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  no need to invent gods. gods were created before I even learned how to talk. you want to smash those idols, smash them. it's a good video game.
  
  i am a mythologist not a religious. I swing both ways but never really stay in one side.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  react...being the operative word
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. React. You go woo woo lala - I react and explain what nonsense it is. Simple really.
  
  Eventually - who knows? - maybe you will not need to go woo woo lala any more and we can drop the nonsense and move on.
  
  You never know.....
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there is no battle between angels and demons other than the one in your head, my dear.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There are no angels or demons, sweetie pie.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i agree, so do not demonize me. I'm just another proscrastinator just like you.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sorry, i just saw this Marcus and could not resist.
  Trial & Error IS the unified theory.
  Oops, I am enabling - the Ism - again.
  
  my bad.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is it James - You stick to pushing your ISM mate. Oh yeah - The Creator and Divine Son is not an ISM. LOLOL
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  Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My parents are my creator(s), the conception took hold. Thus, I was created. Therefore, is not my parents "GOD" because they can create another being?
  
  Thats how ancestor worship took place. Goat parents create goats too, but that doesnt make them an impressive metaphor for the Creator.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Rishy Rich
  
  Creation is from annihilation or nothing; parents do it with a system already working set in motion by the Creator- God Allah YHWH. Parents are respected as they took part in our birth; they know they never created us and we also know they never created us.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is no rationale behind this statement. Please be rational and not create a Creator because this is all you can conceive. Please do not be so close minded - it causes wars and conflict and makes the "peaceful" in your propaganda a lie.
  
  Thank you for not causing any more wars.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Mark Knowles
  
  Don't you worry; the Creator-God Allah YHWH already exists; that is why you and I are discussing things here. If there would have been no Creator, we both must have not been existing. You may, if you like, thank the Creator-God Allah YHWH for creating this Universe and in this Universe for creating us; no compulsion however. You may however continue in your negative thinking you name as Skeptics; after all you are human beings to be loved like others.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please be rational. This is not a rational statement and is guaranteed to cause wars and conflicts. As are your attacks on what the christians believe.
  
  Please be rational and have some reason other than "there must be a Creator because I want one to be." You are causing wars and hatred with the irrational belief.
  
  Please think a little before being so Skeptical of the truth - there is no Creator. Would he want you fighting and causing wars - as you are doing with this non-rational belief? Exactly - it makes no sense. It is irrational.
  
  Please be rational and stop causing hatred and conflict.
  
  Thank you for not causing more wars.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Coming in a bit late, but I think that "God" as a word has been abused and misdefined for thousands of years. Believers talk about "my God" or "our God" and that "our God is not your God." So the definition of "God" is impossible no mater how you look at it and talk about it. If there is a God, God "is". There is no other definition.
  
  We react to the word God as it being separated, exerting on us from the outside. If there is a God and it created us, then that's not true. We are (symbolically) atomic molecules existing inside the realm of God, and therefore, God is not outside of us, but actually inside us. The fact that we perceive any other way is a lie we generate to ourselves, and an illusion. If there is a God we cannot be disconnected from it. That's only our illusion. We have the choice to experience anything we want, and therefore create the experience of somehow being disconnected from God.
  
  I have no idea what God is or if there is a "God." But I do know (because of my experience) that the universe is alive with awareness, conscience and movement and I'm a part of it. The rest is very unclear.
  
  What we as humans have done is made God finite like us and given him an evil personality because we can't explain how we paint ourselves into corners about God and religion. Tapping into flow of "awareness" seems to be the only thing I can get that is real when it comes to the subject of religion and God. And I don't do the "awareness" thing very well. It's a new thought process.
  
  In other words, there is something greater than me and than us. I have no idea what it is, but it isn't as we've been taught and led to believe. It's not a thought process, it's an awareness. If that's not God, then there is no God at all. If being aware that the universe is conscious of me and I am of it, then that's as close to God as I'm going to get.
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  Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What distinguishes your philosphy from any of the millions of other personal philosphies and beliefs out there?
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
I see no one has anything to say. Hmmm....?

I guess that wouldn't be a surprise.
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, u definitely have me thinking about your words - you're pretty deep Cagsil! i'll think more about it - the God metaphor....
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Thank you Someway.
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  Denseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Too deep for me!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why Dense?
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  Denseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Too abstract. God as great big spirit in the sky is easier. -_-
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're willing to believe in a supreme power, and not willing to believe in yourself, is what you are essentially saying?
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  Denseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Does "pure power of limitless potential and unbridled wisdom"=Godlike -power?
  If so, I'll start believing in myself a little more.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is directly in line with the words of Jesus himself- I tell you, you are all gods. With my explanation, this would answer you question with an astounding, resounding YES!
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  Denseposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I guess, I'll take that as you are smiling, as it is intended. And, that makes me feel good.
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SomewayOuttaHereposted 14 years ago
u stirred my brain this a.m. - guess i better put the jelly beans away, get dressed and get the day going now....
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Besides someway, what is so deep about what I said- it's factual truth humanity learned long ago, but the perpetuated forth of the misconceived notion has persisted.
  
  Just a thought.
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SomewayOuttaHereposted 14 years ago
well 4 me - i've never really thought about it before - so it is a new thought and of course it caught my attention - and yea i find it deep - it's not a topic most people bring forward...now back to my jelly beans - red one...or...purple one
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, okay.
  
  Are the jelly-beans good? And, what time is it where you are? It is 1:09pm (EST) here.
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  yep - they are delicious...it's sunday and i'm in a pretty laid back frame of mind and body today. it's 10:10 am.....i've only had about 10 jelly beans though.....
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahh...I see, you are on the west coast of Canada. As for eating only 10.... then I would guess that you've only been up for about 20 minutes? tops? j/k
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  been up for a while now. i get up with the darned birds - they won't let me sleep. coffee breakfast, watched a movie already - just one of those days u kno......but must force myself this a.m. to put it in 1st gear at least....Sunday and its cloudy.
  
  SomewayOuttaHere is a drifting cloud today. (well at least my brain is starting to move)
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hmmm....?
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well....maybe my brain isn't quite moving .....LOL - came up with a metaphor though????.... i'm going to move into the light now....the sun's finally trying to peek out......later....
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Enjoy!
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ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago
metaphors are speaking of realities outside of human language. So does it mean that if the G-d concept is a metaphor, it is a misconception?

This metaphor is real in the realm of consciousness that it influences our mundane reality.

It is being literalized, yes. that is a shadow of the existence of a metaphor. The meaning remains hidden from those who are outside of its experience. In this way, the metaphor of G-d and what it stands for can only be understood by those ready to understand them anyway...otherwise the Myth of G-d does the job in keeping everybody under a spell in such a way that it produces people who actually wake up from that spell and realize what its about. Without the Myth of G-d, there will not be seekers of G-d, nor will there be those who will finally get to that mountain and see what that truly stands for.

But the function of the metaphor is playing out in human consciousness as we speak.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Btw- why is that people manipulate the word - "GOD", such as you have G-d?

Also, thank you for input.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is Homage to the concept that G-d's name is not a name but a metaphor for human action. "I observe and it manifests"
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  it is in the tradition of the Jews not to speak the name of G-d in vain. they do not speak the name.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for responding. Much appreciated.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I am such a forgetful man. I can not remember any place where scripture says that we are all Gods.
Could some one please help.
Where is this written?
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Hey Jerami,

Maybe this post can help you. Even though it isn't specific. But, is from a believer.

It came from this thread - http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/43212
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Cagsil I realy would apreciate it if you could show me where you read that we are all Gods.

If you can? It will be apreciated.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is what Mohitmisra continues to tell people. He loves to quote Jesus' work, as a poet. The man has made his life's work about knowing and understanding Jesus' work.
  
  I will give him credit for his knowledge in this area, but still misrepresents "god" the metaphor, so he can be as successful as he claims to be. He is always talking about how well his book sells, and if truth it does sell(regardless of price), then he is purposely misleading others.
  
  That is where I have a problem with his methods. I understand what he knows, but I also realize he uses to manipulate others. Which, he does not see.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Joseph Campbell's work
  http://www.jcf.org/new/index.php
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Sorry about the passing over of our posts.

I am sure that mohitmisra will be happy to hear that you are now quoting him for referencing.

I must have been mistaken, I thought that you were adressing Christians.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I was addressing anyone who thinks they understand Jesus' work. I am not using him as a solid reference. Because, I'm not that interested in searching out the precise scripture.
  
  That's for you to do. Since, you read the bible. I am only making a reference that one believe claims to? I would have thought that would have been obvious.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It seems that I am not the only one that sometimes makes verbal mistakes making the meaning of my statements not obvious to others.
  When I do it I attempt to never belittle anyone for not understanding what I thought that I said.
  
  It should also be obvious to not quote a Hindu or Buddhist when attempting to cover a mistake that is made concerning Christianity.
  I am not going to look in the bible for a statement that says that we are all Gods or even God like having a Gods' POWER.
  Because it isn’t there.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Now, look who is interpreting things that are not said.
  
  I did not say that we have a "GOD" power. It is a metaphor, which you continue to apply as a person or thing?
  
  The message is as I said. And, Yes, Jesus did say it. Therefore, I stand by what I said.
  
  You want to take the word "GOD" and make it some special, when in fact is only your potential and wisdom, for which, you are restricting yourself from understanding.
  
  "GOD" powers, myth, B.S., extreme imagination. Human beings have it within themselves to GUIDE their own existence, through their own faith in their own abilities and can use their imagination to seek out the future and bring themselves what they want from life.
  
  That is my point and you can argue about it if you like, but Jesus' work, again was not about teaching religion, it WAS about teaching LIFE.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know why you keep saying I said things that I did not say. Or that I believe things that I do not.
  
  I will now cordually leave you with your misconceptions of what you think I said and believe.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Half the time you type words, thus talking, you make references to things and they are not relevant.
  
  Then when you try to explain yourself, you dig even deeper. So, what YOU believe, I guess you can continue on, because you cannot even begin to fathom your own existence.
  
  So, I guess the concept is a little too deep for you to grasp, would be the overall conclusion. No problem. That's all you had to say.
  
  I do not twist your words. It is you who are twisting what I said, because you're limited in your understanding(wisdom). I get it.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have often argued with me when I agree with something that you said, which is how this thread started out. I wish that you could see just how childish you act sometimes.
  
  Whenever you want to belittle someone you can always find a way. Thank you very much for an enlightening afternoon.
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humagaiaposted 14 years ago
Who reported that this God metaphor was ever spoken and when was it reported? If it was never spoken then the metaphor does not exist except in the minds of men. Just like Gods themselves and the reports of their capabilities. It is all in the mind. Which when we get back to the metaphor is the state of us all if we believe we are Gods.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You make no sense. It boils down to language. The metaphor exists, because it is part our language. Another overlooked obvious point.
  
  The metaphor exists because it is still presently used. Duh!
  
  But, thank you for your input.
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  humagaiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Just by being part of language does not make something exist. It is a figment of the imagination. Truth is not man-made.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The language we establish is man-made, and how we define things in our life via words.
  
  Truth is yet another word, brought on by understanding life and how consciousness brings truth. An unconscious person would not know the difference between real or fake. Yet, humans can determine what is real and what is not.
  
  The metaphor was spoken, it was written. Therefore, exists.
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  humagaiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I contend that it was never spoken. It may have been written, but not at the time that it was supposed to have been spoken. Truth is the understanding as we know it at a particular point in time. Our understanding moves on and we see that the truth we knew before is no longer what we understand to be the truth. Man strives for knowledge but is never enlihjtened enough to know the absolute truth. If you know something to be true then you are misinformed.
  God is a truth to some people. Metsphor or not new understanding may move them from their view of that truth. It is those with a closed mind that believe they know the truth.
  Yes Truth is a word used by man and defined by man but is misunderstood by many.
  And in answer to the next post you made, I pesonally do not believe in any God but I do not state that to be a truth I know.
  I can only know the truth of God if I meet it. Having been dead on a couple of occasions I can say that I have not met it yet.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
On another note, I have to ask- do you believe in "GOD"?
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
WOW! That's all I have to say on that.
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TLMinutposted 14 years ago
Psalm 82:6 and Jesus referred to the verse in John 10:34
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TLMinutposted 14 years ago
cags, what if Jerami really isn't able to understand what you say? (Not that that is necessarily the case, just what if?) Why would you insult him for not being able to understand something? Those are the ones you try to help by giving a simpler explanation or more information. If you think he's deliberately misstating your point, that's different, if you truly think he can't understand, you could be nicer.

I've been thinking of this whole idea of God lately and I agree with your OP. Sort of. I don't believe God is a bigger, better version of a human up in the sky. I DO think that description helps people get a start on the whole concept that there is way more to reality than what our physical senses perceive. Much easier to discuss but at a certain point, the analogy leads our thinking astray.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Hey TLMinut,

That is why I asked him if he could understand or grasp it. I wanted to know if he was willing to admit that he did not, instead of thinking that he actually did have a grasp on it.

I can understand where centuries ago, when Jesus' work was actually done, the necessary "need" was required for religion and it's belief in a "GOD" as you state.

And, you are probably right. I could have been nicer about it, but Jerami and I, have done this before this particular conversation. That is why I said what I said to him.

Btw- Thank you for your input.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Thank you for the link cecilia. I followed to check it out and it was interesting.

However, I think that Jerami wanted me to point him in the direction of scripture/text written. When he knows he can do it, because he has a bible available and I do not.

I guess in a way he was trying to tell me to go read it, before I talk about it.

Just a thought.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  well, there are many clues in the bible, if you have the right tools read to them. it may be a good idea to read it and find out what the big hoopla is about from a scholar's perspective.
  
  in an inquiry, always best to know what you're battling against.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
To be quite honest it had been so long ago that I had adressed this issue that I had forgotten that these verses were in the bible.

At that time I discovered that in these instances where elohim was translated "God" it cound also and probably should have been translated "Rulers" or "Judges", especially in the instance of Psalms 82:6.
82:2 "how long will ye judge unjustly..."
82:3 "defend the fatherless do justice to the afflicted and needy".

I apologize for my forgetfulness or I would have explained this point of view earlier today. I had long ago dismissed
(in my mind) the issue of mankind being gods.

We should ask the resident Hebrew linguist??

And Caigs; I was unaware that you do not have a bible, many Atheists on here not only have one but are better versed in it tham I am. I wasn't making an off the cuff slurr.

I was just inadequately attempting to communicate my point of view and showing a bit of irritation; for which I apologize.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Jerami, I'm not an atheist or agnostic or any religion for that matter.
  
  Any religion that speaks of a mystical "GOD" is false. I have personally tested the doctrines of Christianity and found them to be lies/falsehood or whatever else you care to use to describe it.
  
  I've continued to point this out to people I talk with, but it seems to go in one ear and out the other, because they themselves are too busy picking and choosing what I say, they plan to contend with.
  
  And, as for your scripture? You've not posted what you were suppose to be looking for. However, you have kind demonstrated what I was talking about earlier, bringing something to the table that is not relevant.
  
  There is no judge here. I am not judging anyone, I am simply explain common knowledge among many human beings as fact. Which, it is truth. The word "GOD" is indeed a metaphor, used by Jesus in the manner in which I stated in the OP.
  
  You can believe what you want. When it comes down to it, if you are telling me I am wrong, then you are calling Jesus a liar? So, you choose.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  82:2 "how long will ye judge unjustly..."
  82:3 "defend the fatherless do justice to the afflicted and needy".
  I was not calling you a judgmental person.
  You need not defend yourself.
  These are verses in the chapter Psalms 82 that I was told to check out refers to .... "Ye are Gods" which is and was pertinent to the subject of the thread.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Okay
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend Cagsil
  
  I don't get you; it was not Jesus who spoke the word "God"; it was in use before him. If you want to say that when Jesus used it for himself he did not mean it literally but as a metaphor meaning a friend of God or loved one of God; there I am with you. Please clear for me; if you don't mind.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If I must clear it up for you.
  
  Jesus told his followers that religion's "god" was false and told them not worship any false idol. He also told his followers that "god" is within themselves. His teaching is as I stated.
  
  His overall message is about understanding life, the control we have over it, being conscious free thinking & willed, to love ourselves as well as other fellow human beings. And, to have compassion for those who do not know any better or cannot help themselves.
  
  Is that better?
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  ruel acasoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My friend Cagsil, I'll appreciate your references or lets just say your WISDOM.... It is really written in the Bible that jesus stated specially to his disciples that " GOD is within you" and "kingdom of GOD is in you"... and Jesus overall message is more likely depending on us on HOW we LIVE our LIFE,and how we treat others as we treat ourself... However ,, please excuse me if I'm wrong... I dont believe that word "GOD" is just only a metaphors, because Jesus said that "My father sent me, the one and only GOD which is in HEAVEN" So therefore, it was not only a Metaphors but there is an EXISTENCE....
  
  Thank you so much for this TOPIC friend....
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well - if you have tested it and found the 'truth' of it what can we mere mortals say . . . .
  
  get over yourself !!!!
  
  There is no judge here. I am not judging anyone, I am simply explain common knowledge among many human beings as fact. Which, it is truth
  
  You mean what you think is fact ??? I totally agree with you that god is a metaphor that it is ridiculous behaviour to personify - but there are no facts involved - it is all opinion and conjecture.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Alternate poet, I do not have a need to get over myself. You do not need to try and make it appear as if I know it all?
  
  Because, that would be quite foolish of you, considering, we are all humans and we do not know everything, nor can we. However, you gesture to make it appear as you're somewhat better than I am for some reason. And, I digress.
  
  What you fail to understand is obvious- you do not realize your own ignorance. For the plain and simple reason, you know things I do not know, and I know things you do not know. We can have the same knowledge, but how we discern truth through wisdom is apparently different.
  
  So, please try to refrain from making it worse. Just a thought.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I find myself broadly in agreement with what you are saying in this thread - but nobody 'knows' any of this - it is all concepts and ideas, no truths. By claiming that you have tested Christianity and it IS false, because you say so, is to buy into the whole superior being scenario, except you are making yourself the superior being.
  
  I am no better than anyone, I am clearly less educated than others in these forums who have been enlightening all of us with their knowledge in certain subjects, and I never claim to know anything, just give my own opinion or thoughts.
  
  Truth through wisdom is a journey - not a series of 'facts' and so there can only ever be opinion or thoughts on the matter - that are open to discussion, always.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not superior, but different. I'm only stated the effort I put into my study of religion and it's doctrines.
  I am not claiming to be better. I am simply explaining what should be obvious the believers of religion.
  A journey? I kind of agree with you. But, I see wisdom as the truth of the journey known as life. So, there is truth, outside just opinion or thoughts.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They have also taken a journey to truth through wisom - they just end up with a different 'truth'
  
  It will never be obvious to anyone what is true or not, and you will never convince them - because they have found their own 'truth'.
  
  So the issue is that truth (and fact) is subjective - I think ?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This statement will bring you a lot of adversity my friend. There are simply too many people who think "truth" is set to an individual perspective and it's not. There is universal truth, and it is known, when it appears.
  
  Those who contest truth are those who lack knowledge in that area. If you lack no knowledge in that area, then your truth and mine will be the same. We will come to the same conclusion, maybe through different perspectives, because we realized the answer was truth.
  
  Example: I was in high school and my best friend, and I were new to the school and wanted in on the computer classroom, which was restricted(seniors only). Both of were given an assignment from the teachers, upon completion we could have access. My friend had more knowledge about computers than I did, so he wrote his program(solution to assignment) in short form, where me having less knowledge had to write an extended long form of the same assignment. We both came to the same answer.
  
  In the end, what is missed is the opportunity to learn from one another because of ignorance(sometimes at choice).
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is no 'truth' the more knowledge one gains the more clear this becomes. To attain some form of enlightenment is just to find some part of what you were looking for - but this can be different for different people. Maybe THE experts in this field, the Buddhists, only ever talk about stages of enlightenment getting higher and higher.
  
  Truth (like proof) is subjective, you can get a lot of people to agree with your version of truth (look at Christianity, Islam etc) but it will always be subjective to your view of it.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I guess I'll have to agree to disagree with you on this particular topic 'truth'. Without sounding condescending, I follow things a little deeper, because everything is connected. The path of connection, for which, I've discerned apparently is not like you. I'm willing to accept that.
  
  But, Thank you for your input.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have just found your condescending post.
  
  You say that you follow things a little deeper - than me? You cannot know this any more than you can claim, as you did earlier, that you have pronounced Christianity wrong. To put up ideas for discussion in these forums you are going to get them challenged, if you walk away from giving answers it is generally because your 'vision' of things does not hold up to scrutiny.
  
  If you think that 'everything being connected' is news or of any earth-shattering importance then maybe you haven't been digging deeply in the right places.
  
  I do not know the answers to most questions any more than you do, we have our opinions that get tested on here if anyone comes by who can hold a conversation, claiming god-like superiority for your view is not a good place to start I would have thought?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting that you say that. But, then again, it was expected. And, thank you for your input. Much appreciated. I learned a lot.
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  Rochelle Frankposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So there are different 'truths'?
  I thought 'truth' was objective. Our thoughts, interpretations, perceptions, observations and your "I think", may all glimpse some aspects of truth-- like the blind men assessing the reality or truth of an elephant.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  not different truths - different views of things that we 'believe' are truths - I always understood the term to be 'universal truths'.
  
  To use the elephant as an example - it is not truth it is concrete, not an idea. Truth is in the metaphysical and so must be subjective to the viewer.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there are different expressions and therefore interpretations of that single truth... one that unifies them all. so to one person the statement
  
  "there is no god but god", would be both true and false and it will both be right depending on the thoughts that led to that conclusion.
  
  motherhood claims are tips of icebergs.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi friend alternate poet
  
  Do you mean literal or physical personification or attributive personification? The Creator- God Allah YHWH is only attributive, and has no physical or spiritual personification. All physical forms and spirits are his creations.
  
  Please clarify for me.
  
  Thanks
  
  I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Whilst Cagsil may be over-confident (in a god-like manner) of his reading of things I would still agree with him. In my opinion God is a metaphor for an ideal - as I said previously it is ridiculous to worship an explanation of a concept.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is not false, as myth is an expression of truths the mundane cannot access. It is only literalized and misunderstood. But contemplating the myth, will lead a person earnest in his pursuit towards the truth. (an individual one, the truth about himself and his place in his environment, which is also a projection of him)
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ceciliabeltranposted 14 years ago
let me not conjure marine from the dead.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Thank you very much Daniel for your input.
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TLMinutposted 14 years ago
Daniel, that's just what I've found out. Now I have to figure out the implications, it's been a bit difficult. It really was easier to think of God as a super-sized super human with super powers. I could say "he" and it was okay. Then I saw the immensity and the everything-ness that is actually what God is and now I don't want to even pretend to say he or God or any of that.

Christians talk about discovering how immense God is and that it makes them awestruck and grateful that God cares about us - to me it's just absurd. I can't think of God like that anymore even to make it easier. God went way beyond the bounds of what I can think about.
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think this is the point - we need to personify some ideas in order to be able to think, and talk, about it. We have to name things to use them in words, but this does not mean that the idea becomes a thing. A belief in a god is - in my opinion - just the inability of some people to keep the idea and the personification separate in their mind. Which maybe the simple answer to the OP, it is not so much the metaphor wrongly perceived it is the metaphor personified - and then we try to talk to it.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The talking to it part is where insanity creeps in.
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ddoingit1posted 14 years ago
The metaphoric meanning of GOD is around you all day the anger against catastrophies interacting against cosmic science for our pressence of praise and symbolic trees thus stand high above all stars the air we breath
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is the best description of god yet
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  pseudo new age babble or poetic justice?
  If the latter, I enjoy it, if the former -why??? The term 'god; itself is demeaning to the actual Creator of all things, yes?
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constantia11posted 14 years ago
I think you know what you are talking about. Gods metaphor is still in the stars and universe through the language of planets and the constellations written and it does not matter if there is someone on earth who can read it or not. Still there it is Gods word written in Gods universal language in the universe. Gods holy inscripture is written in the universe and can not be destroyed only through one way, and that is to make sure people do not have knowledge about how to read God's universal book anymore and forget about it. Yet Gods book always will remain to exist even if people forget about it or not. If people forget , it is possible they will remember what they forgot, atleast we can not exclude that that might happen also or is possible. You must know God pretty well to know for sure if that would never be possible at all. Perhaps God made sure in one way or the other it want be forgotten. Who knows and who can tell.
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God - the metaphor wrongly perceived?

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