The Bible is Infallible

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iantoPFposted 14 years ago
I read a lot on these forums about the Word of God and how so many things are sinful in his eyes. I am sure there are devout Christians here who can help me with my confusion. here's a little letter to you all.

Dear Christian:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you said, "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man and a woman.” I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination...End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves.

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Yours in adoration.

(name suppressed by homeland security)
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1. 55
  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Infallibly suppressed. hehe
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  watchyaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  1- Because they are an abomination
  2- 10 camels and 2 houses.
  3- I can't answer that. I'll get banned.
  4- You should offer them as a sacrifice.
  5- Kill him
  6- Yes there are. Shelfish is aphrodisiac. I don't know about homosexuality.
  7- it has to be 20/20
  8- by scissors
  9- only with plastic balls.
  10- hang them.
  
  My name is Christy and I'm a devouted Christian.
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed, wholeheartedly.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ROTFLMAO!!!!
  WONDERFUL!
  I'm waiting with baited breath to read "christian" responses.
  Hi 5!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you know you are 'hi5-ing' a letter written about a "supposed non- existent mythical entity" aka "nothing", which you -and they- so divisively and vehemently argue about without providing a shred of proof for or against, right?
  
  Now, I'm laughing at you! LOL
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let he who is without sin cast the first stone and light the first stick. If you would read the whole Bible, you would know this.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This doesn't really help Dent. I figured you would know for certain which is which here. Seeing as you are qualified to judge righteously. You are usually so quick to give us god's judgment on these things.
  
  Maybe one of the lady preachers will be able to tell us - they are constantly going against god's word so they prolly know.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course it doesn't help. Nothing helps those who choose to remain blind. Sight is at your fingertips, but you don't want to see.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So - can I eat shellfish and own Canadians or not?
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure you can eat shellfish, The Canadians may not like you wanting to own them.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But the bible tells eating shellfish is an abomination. Is this a lesser abomination than homosexuality? And I suspect some Canadians would be perfectly happy to be owned by me. It takes all sorts Dent. But still - I can own them?
  
  I knew you would know what god wants.
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  I see that like the OP you have not read the whole Bible. Maybe you are just pretending. Call not common what God has cleansed. You can eat whatever you want. It makes no difference as long as it is blessed. Praying over your meals before eating is actually a good thing.
  
  No doubt there might be a few Canadaians who would love to be owned but I know of none.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah - so there are parts of the bible that over ride other parts? Interesting. I forgot about "using scripture to interpret scripture," in order to lie about the contradictions in the bible.
  
  But - I take it this does not apply to homosexuals and abortions though?
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  SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Homosexuality is a sin. Just as lying is a sin. Many things are sins but are forgiven.
  
  Abortions are killings. They are sin also. If you would really read the Bible completely like you say you have done before, you would know that all sin is forgiven.
  
  One sacrifice for all sin.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ********************************************************
  That scripture was speaking of Gentiles.
  It was not talking about food.
  
  Where's your sense of humor? I thought "Christians" had a lot of joy
  
  I heard God can make a mean steak but he won't clean fish
  
  Don't want to get into it but are you still following Paul, the old devil?
  * See your statement below
  *"You can eat whatever you want. It makes no difference as long as it is blessed. Praying over your meals before eating is actually a good thing."
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually Deborah...it depends on the Christian, there are grumpy Christians.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah and they are all here.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think God was talking about both food and gentiles. I think this because God would have had people lowered in a blanket if he were JUST talking about gentiles, but he had food in the blankey and he made references to the gentiles. Good ol god not wasting spiritual bandwidth conveying two messages independently
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  DS. seriously, without the pseudo cereal sensationalism, what is your issue with Paul, a rabbi who evidently loved Y`shua? Seriously? You have not provided one shred of proof he was a false teacher, not one. Nor provided valid documentation by witnesses or other apostles disputing his authority.
  
  It is obvious his words burn you -to the core- because of rabbinical law -which you were married into.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Paul was not a Rabbi.
  He was a Self Made Apostle
  He taught something and taught it wrong because he didn't understand
  He made himself as High as Yahshua
  He created all the christian religions including Catholic
  He used guile and lies and said it was OK as long as it brought glory to God
  
  Anyone with common-sense can see this
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  its like saying that jews are evil if you're a palestinian.
  
  History has many sides. Paul, just like you is a person moved by his understanding of the esoteric mysteries that he felt the urge to spread them. His passion convinced many. But he is not the source and he acknowledges this. However his interpretations watered down the potency of the wine because that happens when you bring anything esoteric down to the level of the mundane. It eventually loses much of its spirit.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Saul was one of the highest rabbi/pharisees.
  His political & legal power stretched from Rome to Jerusalem, Syria and Asia. People were scared and captivated at the same time by Saul. This is why when he went to see Peter and James everyone was scared to death. Because not long before then he ordered the public execution of Stephen.
  
  The Damascus incident happened when he was on his way to Syria to gain more political power against this new sect, because of his zeal for the law and the temple and everything else Hebrew.
  
  Everything you said he was, has no foundation. Show us written documentation/explanation, then I can see if you are correct. I am not going to just take your word for it on the subject. Until otherwise, I see nothing obscure about his works post-RTD.
  
  EDIT:
  Furthermore -and most important- why did none of the first 11 +1 dispute him? Certainly Peter, James or John would have no reason to fear him or hide. In fact they publicly acknowledged him.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Was that true?
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.truthseekers.co.za/content/view/38/32/
  
  this is just one of many i have read.
  
  esp these two:
  
  "He was a Pharisee which meant he was a member of the most strict and law-abiding sect of Judaism who stood firm by the traditions of the fathers and were held in high esteem by the people. In other words, he was a member of the social elite."
  
  "Saul was raised in Jerusalem and taught by Gamaliel, a doctor of the law. Gamaliel was well respected by the people and was considered the greatest teacher of the day. Saul was taught the perfect manner of the law, by Gamaliel."
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  is what true?
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Paul had life by the horns. Wealth, respect, a diplomat so to speak. Servants. Education the list goes on of what paul had before god separated him onto the gospel of christ.
  
  Men don't self-appoint and go through the type of crap paul did just to deceive people. How many beatings can a man take before he says, man i'm just lyin anyway, its not worth this stuff and back to the old job and servants, running water....
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  exactly.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  1. Already posted on that point.
  2. He taught nothing different from any of the written words of the others or Y`shua. Unless you have some knowledge no one else has. To this point he states: ...that I would know nothing else among you except Christ and him resurrected.
  3. Peter laid hands on him, healing and anointing him.
  4. Proof?
  5. Incorrect. Antioch pagans titled believers as Christians, not Paul. Paul was an uber strict Hebrew, would not even speak to pagans. It was after his death and Peters crucifixion that Rome adopted this sect blended with its pagan rituals to form the basis for Catholicism. In 1050 the sect divided into Eastern and Western, which was then to become the Roman Catholic church, until it too split and created the Church of England.
  
  6. How?
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "were married to ?"
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  don't be so shellfish Marcus! har-har.
  
  ps, you entering the Hubbalicious contest?
  I need some competition, you know.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  I hope so - I am a bit bogged down right now.
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  Pearldiverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Sky is Falling! The Sky is Falling!
  
  I've seen it with my own hands.... The Sky is Falling!
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dear non-believer,
  
  I actually understand your questioning of some of these things. And there are several points of explanation that can be made, even though I see you're being sarcastic.
  
  Point one is (and you won't like this one at all probably) is that the Bible is for the Christian, not the unbeliever, to interpret.
  
  A second point is that God explained part of this Himself! Yes, in the Bible! I'll go find the specific passage in a few minutes if I can (I'm "multi-tasking" right now, so please bear with me....or not, as you choose.)
  
  A third point is that there are certain settings in place now that weren't in place "back then". For instance, we (or at least the USA and lotsa other nations) are no longer under the absolute rule of kings, queens, ceasars, etc.; so we are no longer under the physical "letter of the Law" (both some of man's laws, and God's Law).
  
  A fourth point is that God doesn't change, even if the strict physical structure of His laws change.
  
  A fifth point (and the most awesome one!) is that Jesus came to earth and made a way for us to not be immersed in and condemned by sin! The word repentance is key, even though I doubt you wanna hear about that. But you did ask.
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Brenda, as a Bible-believing Christian, I share in your response. Anyone who looks at any writing for the sole purpose of finding something to criticize, will do so because their heart's intention is not for unbiased truth.
  
  iantoPF, it's no surprise that you scoff the Word of God. I expect nothing less from anyone who has already made their choice to not believe. But for the purpose of correcting your sarcasm, those of us who actually know and understand what the entire Bible is all about see it as a living Word that became fulfilled by Christ, and after that fulfillment came former laws were no longer in place. I challenge you to actually take a close look at the New Testament and see what it has to say about how we are NOT under the same laws you speak about. Sin is still sin, of course. Homosexuality is still an abomination...lying is still a sin, etc. But Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law of God and released us to the freedom of following the Holy Spirit. Go look it up!
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If you live by the word of Christ, then you can't have it both ways. The word of Christ is to "love God with all your heart, mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself. On this do all the law and the prophets hang."
  
  And since homosexuality is addressed in the OT and Christ fulfilled OT law, then the law is LOVE, not homosexuality is an abomination to God. That law was fulfilled in Christ, REMEMBER???? You can't have it both ways. You can't resurrect OT laws and spout them in the face of Christ and tell him he's wrong, that we can't love homos after all. It's not the unbelievers that don't get it. It's just that believers insist on having it any way they dictate, based on who they like or dislike.
  
  Ianto, kudos and hi5 from me, as well.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hallelujah and AMEN. In and of itself this statement may be the most.. on the spot statement that I have heard on these forums since I have been here.
  Daniel Carter thank you for saying this.
  I don't care which sin that you may commit, it ain't any worse than the ones that every one else is committing.
  The only defense is that I don't have any of what they got on my plate,
  They probably don't want what I got on mine on their plate on theirs either.
  When we figure this out; we may quit judging other people as if they are less than we are. Judging others is a really bad thing that God don’t want for us to be doing. I think that we can get into judging others in such a way as to be doing the absolute worst thing that could possibly be done, Worse than being Gay or adultery etc.
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Again, I judged no PERSON. I simply restated what the Bible itself calls sin. I have a couple friends that are homosexual. I care for them, truly. I also have a friend caught up in alcoholism. I care for her, too. God loves them deeply but He wants to see them make better choices so that they can experience all that He has for them.
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  With all due respect I feel that I must say a word.
  Your alcholic friend may be as happy as she/he has ever been in their life. Sure they are wasting money on his/her habit that could go a long way toward their retirement... Hope school suplyes for the childen are not in short supply because of the adiction.... that kind of thing. Everyone is adicted to something.
  King Solomon said it best, "It is all vanity..."
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Daniel, I have said NOTHING about not loving homosexuals or that God doesn't love them. ALL of us are sinners, including me and you, because we ALL fall short of the glory of God. I wasn't the one who began the whole conversation about homosexuality. I merely answered the question asked about it. God absolutely DOES homosexuals, because He loves EVERYONE. But loving everyone, as He surely does, doesn't mean that everyone's behavior pleases Him or that everyone will be with Him for eternity in Heaven. Everyone on this planet will make their very own choice, by their own free will, whether or not they will serve God and enter into His inheritance after death. I fully believe (if you will read what I wrote just a bit ago that there will be some people who struggle with homosexual tendencies, but are seeking God's help with it, in Heaven. Christ's fulfillment of the Law means that it is not the Law of Moses, and all it requires, that saves mankind now. The old Law required we sacrifice lambs each year and follow a list of rules. But NOW we are saved by putting full trust in the redemptive work of Christ on the cross and repenting from our sins, choosing to walk in newness of Him, following the Holy Spirit's guidance. Don't put words in my mouth or accuse me of saying something I didn't say. There will PLENTY of straight people not making it up there, either!
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My comment was directed at your response as much as it was many other responses. We will have to agree to disagree. I still believe my point is valid.
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Daniel, homosexuality wasn't called an abomination to God ONLY in the Old Testament, but also in the New Testament, too, and more than once....along with fornication, drunkenness, idolatry, and so on.
  
  Sure we can agree to disagree, and people can validate any point they want in their own minds, but it doesn't make your point scriptural. To say it's what YOU believe, yes, but to say it's what the Bible says (including the New Testament), no.
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus had nothing to say about homosexuality. Those who wrote about Jesus and his teachings did. There's no evidence that Jesus taught homosexuality is a sin. It's only written by those who claim to represent him. If this information is wrong, feel free to offer evidence otherwise.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus is God. Lotsa people miss that fact.
  So, whatever God thought of anything is the same thing Jesus thought/thinks of it.
  
  I suppose you'd have to see it in red print specifically quoted from Jesus before you'd believe it?
  
  But indeed the Apostles and other Biblical prophets also spoke "for" the Lord.
  Jude in particular was quite bold on the subject of judgement of sin, including homosexuality. Verse 7 condemns people going after "strange flesh" and mentions Sodom and Gomorrha. The whole book of Jude is about God's judgement. He said (and he quoted the Old Testament prophet Enoch) that the Lord will come back in judgement and personally "convince" sinners of their sins:
  
  Jude 14, 15, 16:
  
  "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying , 'Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
  
  To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.'
  
  These are murmurers, complainers, [{whiners}], walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage [(flattering people to gain advantage]]."
  
  Quite a "rant" there, huh? Jude didn't mince words. He wasn't "tolerant" of perversion nor any other sins, and tells us that neither was Jesus.
  If you don't believe it because Jesus didn't specifically say it there, then according to Jude and the other prophets, you'll have the chance to hear it from God's own mouth when He comes back. He personally will be, I'm sure, much more convincing than Christians are. Especially today, when so many "Christians" claim that Jesus is only loving and benign and tolerant and never never judgemental.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Was he tolerant of divorce and adultery?
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  Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And Jesus being God also means that God didn't write anything in the OT, either. Just those who claim to *know* what God says.
  
  Regardless, you can't have it both ways. You can't recite old laws from the OT which were fulfilled in the NT by Christ, and then sling the old laws at Christ and tell him he's wrong for fulfilling all those old laws and replacing them with "love your neighbor as yourself."
  
  You don't understand the scriptures at all, if you that's what you do.
  
  (I've observed plenty of evidence of it by a lot of "followers.")
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is hilarious. However, you ought to give credit for where ever you found it. I have read it before.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yep - just another internet chain letter.
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  rshipmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well the problem with many christians when dealing with a homosexual person is they are not lead by the spirit of GOD when pointing out their sin to them. Then it becomes a battle with that person because they feel like they are being attacked because of their unpardonable sin so to speak. I dont know if you are a christian or not but if you are then you should know the scripture that say through love and kindess have i drawn thee..... dont point out their sin to them and if you do make sure that it is being lead by God give them scriptures about the love of God towards all men that's how you draw them let god do the rest.
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  mjane24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  true the Bible is infalliable ibelieved that..
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well - if you understand it as well as you understood this post - I think you are in trouble.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Lev 25:44.. these are called butlers and maids and yes you can have as many as you want.
  
  exodus 21:7 If you owe money then she may be sold to work off the debt, in the year of jubilee she will come back home, 49yrs later.. is this really what you want?
  
  Lev.15: 19-24 She is to be separated 7 days.. if she is not separated 7 days then this rule is not in application and you are trying to be with someone not of your own nation.. tsk tsk.. you shall be stoned for that..
  
  Levi 1:9 Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. You should try to sacrifice when your neighbors aren't home or go to the mountain, buy bigger land and get out of the city, but be a peacemaker first.
  
  Exodus 35:2 First you have to decide what day is the sabbath. If he is not a believer in the ways of yahweh, then no.. the sabbath only applies to people who follow yahweh, not the heathen, they can do what they want god will judge them later.
  
  Lev. 11:10 NOPE, break one rule, break them all.. No points for halfway, both are the same. A homosexual who eats shellfish, freshly caught on the sabbath gets stoned 3 times.
  
  Lev.21:20 You have to see clearly so that the temple of god be not sued!! There are pointy winged cherubim on the ark. Spiritually speaking The minister of god must 'see clearly' and not have 'no mote in his eye' to serve the living god. No blinded vision. no limited vision. no narrow vision.
  
  Lev.19:27 Back then they did not have scissors only a straight razor. A straight razor would destroy the tidiness of the beard and the beard altogether, unlike scissors which would trim much nicer. Shaving the head was a no no due to heat stroke. It doesn't say they shall die. it just says 'ye shall not do'. these are personal conduct rules, according to deu 17:6 then shall the judgment be decided.
  :28 Nor print any marks upon you, hehe, tattoos! lol
  
  Lev.19:19
  Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
  
  Hope this helps.
  God bless
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ***************************************************
  Funny
  
  PS I'm not a Christian
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi iantoPF,
  
  1.dont know
  2.dont know
  3.This is quite a common philosophy as menstrual periods of woman are supposed be negative energy., Pranic Healing and other healing arts have the same belief.
  4.smell is relative they may not like it ,go easy with the odor all is god,including your neighbors.
  5. Its not to be taken literally.
  6.Everything in life is relative.
  7.the sight I would say is the spiritual eye , it has to be single, one pointed.
  8. Hair is considered as part of our body made by God so we shouldn't cut the hair or nails.Sikh,Rastafarian philosophies as well.
  its a very minor issue and not to be given importance,each to his own..
  9.:lol :lol
  10.??
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  aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ian, this was really funny, pity it took me three weeks to catch up with it, still at least I missed all the Satan whisperers comments, saved myself some flack by not replying earlier!
  
  My general rule is to live in the new covenant, and observe those old covenant aspects that have been reiterated in the new.
  
  Homosexuality was reiterated, as far as I can see:
  
  Timothy 1:9-10 (King James Version)
  
  Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
  
  For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine...
  
  But in effect homosexuality is no different form any other sexual sin, except for whatever reason God obviously abhors it, possibly (my thoughts not Gods) because it is impossible for homosexuals to procreate in a normal fashion.
  
  Personally it's of no difference to me whether someone is a homosexual or a heterosexual fornicator, apparently to God it seems to be, as He inspired the new covenant scribes to reinforce the matter.
  
  As for seafood...
  
  Acts 15:19-20 (King James Version)
  
  Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
  
  But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
  
  These are the only new covenant restrictions placed on gentile believers, Jews, Seventh Day Adventists and the Messianic may view it differently, but I'm only concerned with what the new covenant states, the old covenant pointed to the new covenant, but lost it's sanction when Christ declared the Kingdom.
  
  As for slaves, well the new covenant has no mention of slaves, but states the following.
  
  Colossians 3:22-23 (King James Version)
  
  Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;
  
  And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men....
  
  Is a servant a slave? - anyhow, we are all slaves to the system, it's a matter of interpretation, not scriptural, but societal!
  
  The new covenant also states:
  
  Galatians 3:27-29 (King James Version)
  
  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
  
  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
  
  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
  
  Which seems to negate those old covenant verses referring to slaves completely.
  
  So the Canadians are safe!
  
  BTW it was a believer that brought about the demise of slavery, but you knew that anyway.
  
  I realize that you only posted this for a bit of fun, and it was funny, but equally it was misleading, as I'm sure you are aware, pagan that you are!
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iantoPFposted 14 years ago
Thank you Watcha. you obviously have a firm grip on God's morality. I appreciate your firm hand and unwavering wielding of the mighty sword of God's will.
Twentyone days; I understand you perfectly. What you said, to put it in a nutshell is;
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise.
Thank you for the clarity of your response.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  iantoPF:
  You are the man!
  Another hi 5!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Adding a Hi5. LOL
  
  Thanks for clarifying 21 days' answer. But I still don't know about the shellfish. I know 21 thinks homosexuality is un-natural, but - I guess god is punishing the shrimp in the gulf for being gay right now, so maybe the shell fish thing eating is also un-natural.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Shellfishes are filters of the sea. Kinda like pigs eat garbage.
  No bottomfeeders are ever considered clean or that which taketh into itself 'unclean' material, habitually, for survival may be eaten.
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  mrpopoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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iantoPFposted 14 years ago
hello Mark and Qwark; thank you. You may remember from your Bobles that Jesus said there were 10 virgins, I don't know which of you raised the 5 wise or the 5 foolish but it's nice to know that all 10 were Hi;
Mark; you are right about the shellfish in the Gulf. My friend says they are no longer gay, they are not even slightly amused.
Dear brenda;
Thank you for your letter of reply.
In point one, does "Interpret" mean the same as understand? I am sure the Bible can only be interpreted by those who believe, so it must be God's will that there are so many Christian denominations all with a different interpretation of the Bible.
I'm sure that God explained Himself. I haven't been able to find it myself but I don't multitask very well. God only made women with that ability.
I'm not sure I understand your third point. Are you saying that if we were solely under God's law and not answerable to the laws of man, then I could smite my heighbours and stone the queers? If so then let us strive towards that glorious day.
God doesn't change, I agree. But didn't he change his mind about the whole human race in the days of Noah and didn't he change his mind about the Sabbath? from saturday to Sunday. Didn't he change his mind about the necessity of circumsision as a prerequisite for heaven?
So jesus came to Earth and made a way for us not to be immersed in sin. This is wonderful news. Sucks for those millions who live and die without hearing this good news but, that's the deal your dealt and they better not cry about it come judgement day.
Repentance sounds like good politics though;
"Lord forgive me if I am offending You"
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  iantoPF, actually, God never "changed" the Sabbath day. The problem is that it got changed by tradition, beginning in the days of the ancient Israelites, from a day that God clearly deemed as a day of solemn rest to a day of worship. Look at Exodus 16:29...God instructs people to not even leave their homes on the Sabbath, but to stay at home and REST. He didn't say go to church. The Israelites took that upon themselves to start. And I personally, though I know I can be wrong, think when God said He regretted making man, in the days of the flood, He was expressing His deep pain about how His children had turned out. Like, today, if a child gives a parents such a horrible time over the years and no matter what the parent does the child still rebels. The parent can easily express desperation. I'm not saying I know that to be the case, just offering another side to it. But even still, ya know what......even IF God changed His mind, heck He's God and we're not. Even when we don't understand everything we can't lose sight of the fact that His ways are indeed higher than ours....period.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Wow - I am impressed. Even though "His ways are indeed higher than ours....period" you feel comfortable telling us what you think He was feeling. Deep pain no less.
  
  What a feeble, pathetic god yu am skeered a. Ya know?
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, I'll be praying for you.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like that would change anything.
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Couldn't hurt
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Someone wants to waste their effort in praying to a fiction or non-existence entity that only exists in their mind, for the sake of someone else?
  
  There is no rationale behind the action. Thus, making meaningless.
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's the thought that counts in this case. How about if he plants a tree for Mr. Knowles?
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'll be praying for you, too, Cagsil!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is necessary.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well - if that makes you feel better, go right ahead.
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  On another note, it was never God's desire for the church to break up into a million different denominations. In multiple places in the New Testament God specifically calls for the church to be of ONE voice, unified in ONE spirit, spreading ONE message. I, personally, think He abhors denominational divides, as do I. I also do not believe that the Scripture are left up to multiple denominations to tell us how to interpret it. I believe anyone who is truly, whole-heartedly seeking God's voice, He will interpret His word to them properly (and again, GOD knows who seek shim with their whole heart). We also can understand what the Bible is saying by looking at the context, time period, looking for how it parallels with other scripture, and learning about how it was originally written. We forget that the original texts were in Hebrew, Greek, and bits of Aramaic, which is why I take the time to study the roots of scripture from those languages, too. I don't just casually gloss over scripture, like most do, and then claim to know it. I've read it from over to cover 4 times, studied Hebrew and Greek and still learn more every day. What bothers me are those who haven't read it yet form their opinions of it (not at all assuming you are in that category like some of the obvious ones who have written comments here).
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  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Even a child can see the bible, or any other scripture is all make believe and magic, reading the book to children will garner that response as long as the child isn't being indoctrinated.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Fahrenheit 451" redux?!
  Burn all the books - because all of them are magic and fables.
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Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago
Ezekiel 20: 24-31:

Eze 20:24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

Eze 20:25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes [that were] not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

Eze 20:26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through [the fire] all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I [am] the LORD.

Eze 20:27 ¶ Therefore, son of man, speak unto the house of Israel, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Yet in this your fathers have blasphemed me, in that they have committed a trespass against me.

Eze 20:28 [For] when I had brought them into the land, [for] the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to them, then they saw every high hill, and all the thick trees, and they offered there their sacrifices, and there they presented the provocation of their offering: there also they made their sweet savour, and poured out there their drink offerings.

Eze 20:29 Then I said unto them, What [is] the high place whereunto ye go? And the name thereof is called Bamah unto this day.

Eze 20:30 Wherefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Are ye polluted after the manner of your fathers? and commit ye whoredom after their abominations?

Eze 20:31 For when ye offer your gifts, when ye make your sons to pass through the fire, ye pollute yourselves with all your idols, even unto this day: and shall I be enquired of by you, O house of Israel? [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will not be enquired of by you.

God is the Almighty, the Creator. One of God's names is Jealous. The first bolded text says He gave strict rules that He knew could not be followed in the strictest sense by mankind, and He did it so that they'd be humble and depend upon Him. Instead of seeking Him, they had made idols that they themselves could control instead of at least TRYING to obey the Lord.
You can call Him cruel or non-existent or whatever you may wish, but I will ask you this----
If there is a Being who created the world and allowed you to be in existence, WHY would you rebel against Him? Why would you "enquire" of He who says He will not be "enquired" of?
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alternate poetposted 14 years ago
Ianto - you are now officially my hero. I will even overlook my previous opinions about bl**dy Welshmen and bl**dy Welsh ex-wives in promoting to you to Saint Ianto.
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(Q)posted 14 years ago
"watchya wrote:

1- Because they are an abomination
5- Kill him
8- by scissors
10- hang them.

My name is Christy and I'm a devouted Christian."

Btw Christy, you're probably a very nice person, but notice that your religion turns you into someone who is ready to kill others in the name of a god?
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optimus grimlockposted 14 years ago
THINK before you respond. I'm not saying the bible is wrong but "were you alive back then and do you have proof that the accounts are real?" No none of us do thats were your faith comes in, that simple!!
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iantoPFposted 14 years ago
Alternate poet; I humbly accept your beatification. From now on my resume will contain "Saint(but no bloody angel) ianto" though Brenda would have me known as "Ianto the unbeliever" Very sad really. However, I have another friend who likes to point out that the God of the Bible is not the most powerful. He likes to tell me that Jesus was nailed to the cross and Thor, the God of thunder, has a hammer. 'Nuff said.
Thank you for your response Brenda. Ezekiel, ah yes. Interesting chap, he reads like a Babylonian patriot. In chapter 26 the word of the Lord comes upon him and he predicts that Nebuchadnezar will fall upon Tyre and then he goes on to prophecy the destruction of that city by the Babylonians. Unfortunately my history books tell me that, while Nebuchadnezar did lay siege to that city for 13 years he was unable to conquer it and they came to a compromise. The first half of Ezekiel, where he talks nasty about Judah, does explain a lot to me. Thank you.
solnyshka; I am such a scoffer, but you may have a point. Jesus has released us from the horrible laws of Moses. Now we can sin and still be saved. But under the new laws of Christ, surely homosexuality is not a sin? aren't there some very devout anglican priests and bishops who are openly gay? They have taken Jesus into their hearts and their own sex into their beds, so it can't be a sin any more.
Spider; welcome. I'm glad you're joining in the fun. Yes, it was originally written a few years ago as a letter to Laura Schlessinger, someone reprinted it as a letter to Pres' Bush. Modesty prevents me from giving it due credit.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh no...I'm not joining in this silliness; I'm just suggesting that you not take credit for something you didn't actually write. I'm a fan of the Bible...but I'm not so stupid as to take it literally or to think that it's the actual words of God Himself written down on paper, and I've got enough of a funny bone to see the humor in the post.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, and?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do believe you are speaking to the author. Have you read his hubs? Sorry - I forgot you guys only read between the lines when it comes to the bible.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You believe I'm speaking to the author, I do not. As I mentioned, I have seen this letter before, and as iantoPF said it was written to Dr. Laura Schlessinger and is re-printed all over the web. If he did write it, then he needs to come right out and say so.
  
  You don't know sh*t about me, so stop making your asinine assumptions.
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  mrpopoposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Common guys, let's not tear each other's heads off for a simple fact...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Asinine assumptions? You are a professed christian are you not? And you "interpret" the bible to mean what you want it to mean do you not? Why would you doubt he is the author? I mean - you swallowed the religion you profess to follow? Why would you doubt anything?
  
  Dear me. Turn the other cheek why don't you?
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As I said, you don't know sh*t about me. Your statement makes that obvious. I enjoy reading and studying the Bible and the languages in which it was originally written, as well as many other "holy texts," and I believe in a creator of the universe. I belong to no man-made religion. I believe that there was a man named Jesus and that he tried to spread a decent message about God; I believe there were other people who did this work as well. I would never, NEVER join a Christian church. It is the case that other people have called me "Christian" because I believe Jesus existed.
  
  Turn the other cheek is a great ideal; however, I am imperfect, and readily able to admit it.
  
  ETA: And to answer your OTHER question; I do not believe he is the author A. because as has already been pointed out, this is a very popular internet chain letter, and B. because he's already basically said as much himself.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well - In that case I apologize for calling you a Christian.
  
  I don't know if Jesus existed or not and choose not to make the leap of faith required to believe it. I also do not believe in a creator - in fact - I cannot think of a more ridiculous idea.
  
  But - just exactly what "asinine assumption" have I made here:
  
  "I do believe you are speaking to the author. Have you read his hubs? Sorry - I forgot you guys only read between the lines when it comes to the bible."
  
  That you are a believer who "interprets" the bible to suit themselves?
  
  Great to hear you speak ancient Greek and Aramaic. Another one who does huh? There are quite a lot of you here.
  
  Odd that you read it and still make the ridiculous assumption that there is a creator of the universe.
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't KNOW that Jesus existed - I believe he did given my, admittedly limited - human - ability to study what is available on the subject.
  
  I don't ASSUME a creator exists - I believe one does, and am intelligent enough to admit that I might be wrong (as I have mentioned here before). I have, believe it or not, examined other options; this is the one that works for me - if that makes me stupid or worth your contempt or whatever, then so be it.
  
  There's a difference between faith and knowing. And as you well know, Mark - having studied quite a bit yourself - there are plenty of language scholars and translations of the Bible (as well as other books) that are helpful for interesting study, should one wish to indulge, and there are many early versions of the Bible for one to examine should they so choose. And no, I never professed to be fluent in either of those ancient languages - however, I learn more and more about them (as well as Latin) each time I sit down to study further.
  
  Didn't you mention recently that you had "signed up with the other side and hoping to break $2000 this month"? What's that about? Perhaps you were just joking.
  
  Thank you for apologizing for calling me a Christian - that was the assumption inherent in "you guys" to which I originally took offense.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I must admit - I do tend to lump believers in together and apologize for have assumed that you "know". As you may have noticed - most people who believe there is a creator tend to lie about that and claim to have "evidence" and "proof" and "knowledge."
  
  Which is where they and I clash. I hate being called an idiot and every time some one tells me they have "proof" that requires me to be open minded enough to take on faith - they are telling me they think I am a fuggin' moron.
  
  I honestly don't care which religion people subscribe to and I do find it funny when people like Brenda attack a different version because everything they say actually applies to their own.
  
  So - what makes you think there is a creator in that case?
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  TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Mark,
  
  I suppose everyone hates to be called an idiot or to be lumped. So, I apologize for my “asinine” as well. Yesterday was not a shining example of one of my best days.
  
  I notice that many people, from all walks of life claim to “know” things that it seems to me it would be very difficult to “know,” so I can understand your frustration in that department.
  
  Epistemologically speaking, it’s really very difficult to “know” anything – and I’ve been proven wrong too many times in my short life to really do anything but try my best to keep an open mind (I said TRY…LOL…sometimes I fail). The long and the short of it is that I hate to have things pushed on me as well. I prefer civilized discourse, when I can have it. Attacking is never a good thing.
  
  Annnnyway. You asked an important question. *eyes you warily* I’m gonna go ahead and answer it…at my own risk, I suppose. LOL
  
  I have trouble comprehending the complexities of the origins of the universe – when I contemplate it, sometimes I get a headache. Anyway, it’s difficult for me to imagine that there was no beginning; it seems to me that if something IS, it must have had a beginning. Okay, so what kind of a beginning? I think cause and effect works; Newton tells us that for every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction – just one example of cause and effect, right? So, then you have this chain of events all causing and effecting one another…what set it into motion? It seems to me that there must be a thing that could move without having to be moved – that could set events into motion without having to be acted upon. This, to me, is one definition of God. Please note, that I do not anywhere claim to have firm knowledge of the attributes of such a creature; I believe that’s where faith comes in (although I would LOVE to know where Christians get the idea that God is all-knowing and all-good; I can’t seem to find that passage in the Bible). I’m sure, well-read as you are, Mark, you recognize this argument.
  
  Also (and this is nothing new to you either, I’m sure), the universe reminds me of a pocket watch. It seems to me that it wouldn’t function the way it does if anything (the orbits of planets, the motions of galaxies, the placements of black holes…) were off from the way they are now. The watch needed a designer – am I really to believe that a completely random explosion resulted in all this…intricacy and heart-wrenching beauty??
  
  Anyway…those are my thoughts in a nutshell. I just received some very bad news, and have to go right now. Go easy on me. I hope you will be well. Shaantih.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL - No worries. Sorry to hear that - I hope things transpire well. Life sux sometimes.
  
  I have certainly heard the "I cannot comprehend how this could have come into being without a creator" argument - which is what you are basically saying. It is so complex there must have been a creator.
  
  I heartily recommend "The Blind Watchmaker" as once you have an understanding of how often things fail it is hard to see a creator involved. At best - a trial and error creator - maybe? Throw a few things in and see what happens? OK - Maybe.
  
  I do not even subscribe to the big bang thing - I cannot grasp what is the other side of that and - what makes most sense to me is - the universe always has been and it certainly does not need a creator.
  
  In every part of existence I see a boom and bust - and that makes the most sense to me. Constantly expanding and contracting. No beginning and no end. Alpha and Omega.
  
  No creator or supreme being involved. And I agree - I laugh at the Xtians who claim to know what the supreme being wants.
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  iantoPF, the Law of Moses wasn't "horrible", the way God Himself gave it. God's intention in giving the Ten Commandments was to introduce a moral standard of living, to please God. The Israelites added to it their own traditions and governance. Even the New Testament talks about how the original Law of Moses was added to with additional mad-made regulations. Keep in mind, God's original plan only had ONE rule, in the garden of Eden, which was not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve had full freedom except for that and there was no sin until they blew it. God, being holy, had to discipline that and introduce a way of living after that. Man perverted it. Man added to it their own ideals and judgments so extremely that no one could possibly keep it. God wanted us to serve Him by our love, not by duty, but Pharisees and priests made the Law something more condemning that merciful. If God wanted it that way they why even send His Son to begin with? The whole purpose of the Law was to identify sin and give us a measure in which to use as we made decisions, NOT to burden us so severely that we couldn't enjoy life. Jesus' fulfillment of the Law didn't throw out the necessity of making right choices. Anyone, and I do mean anyone, who has truly come to a proper understanding of God's love, His sacrifice for us, His grace and His Word, will gladly, with joy in their hearts, strive to live for Him as best they possibly can. And just because a person is a priest, it doesn't make them a Christian any more than a mouse in a cookie jar makes it a mouse! Homosexuality IS sin, no matter who's doing it. I did not, however, say that all homosexuals are not saved. Some struggle with it, want to change it but don't know how, yet please with God to help them. And some justify it and say it's not sin. There's a difference. Nice out of the ten commandments from the Old Testament were restated and carried into the New Testament, and are still with us as God's standard today. However, even when we mess up, His grace is sufficient! But don't misunderstand that. Grace is NOT license to sin! The Bible makes this clear. But God knows the hearts of all of us. He knows who believes in Him and who doesn't. He knows who is trying to lean on Him and trying to follow Him. His "sheep" hear His voice, and He knows who His "sheep" are. I mess up every day in some way, because I am human. But when I do I quickly hear a prompting from the Holy Spirit telling me that I messed up and need to correct it....and I do. I don't have to have the Ten Commandments posted in front of me on all my walls, in my car, at my job, or wherever, because the Holy Spirit now is the one who guides me. According to Galatians, the law is referred to as a tutor, or in the Greek a "child discipliner". But when we grow up we don't need one of those anymore. We mature and can listen to the Holy Spirit without a tutor following us around. This is why the New Testament refers to those still stuck under the law as being "elementary", and encourages them to come off the milk and seek the meat for their spiritual diets.
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Correction....I meant to write to "plead with God", not please with God. (My bad)
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Geez, another correction.....NINE out of the 10 commandments, not "nice". This is what happens when I don't proof read before sending. Sorry!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dear me. You joined hubpages just to spread this garbage? No wonder people are sick and tired of your religion.
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, when you stand before the Lord, let's see how far your belief that this is "garbage" gets you. And I'm not in a religion, thank you. I'm in a relationship....which I don't expect you to have any clue about. All the same, I hope the love of God hits you some day and opens your determined-to-be-closed eyes.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure. I have a relationship with 20-year-old Audrey Hepburn. It is pretty one-sided - but a relationship nonetheless.
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ROFLMAO
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Closed eyes?
  
  Sounds quite like the true believer.
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USMCwifey09posted 14 years ago
This is always a touchy subject...but here are a few ideas:

-The world we live in today is vastly different from the time when Jesus inhabited the earth, and when the Bible was first written. God knows this.
-There are certain things/actions that were forbidden in those days, like eating shellfish and women cutting their hair, etc. But again, our world is different. I'm pretty sure that God will let some of those things slide.
-Just like everything else, words and their meanings evolve and change throughout history. We can attempt to 'interpret' and/or understand the Bible, but in truth, no one fully knows the meanings or understands everything about it.
-Yes, there are going to be people all over the world who never hear the Good News, and will die before they would have the opportunity. Even so, they will still have the chance to hear it after death, when coming before God (because He is merciful, and will give every person the chance to hear His word).
-Taking passages out of context is not helpful. There are obviously things written in the Bible that are flat out crazy and sometime contradictory, but the overall message is the most important and really the only one worth knowing: Jesus Christ came to us to free of from sin so that we may know eternal Love.
-And when there is doubt...FAITH comes in.

*Not meant to judge or offend, just wanted to contribute. Thanks.
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And contribute you have...well said.
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  Solnyshkaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  USMCwifey09, you are so right on many points, and thank the Lord for another Christian perspective on this site. However, I think the more we dig deeper into the Bible, studying it, looking at the context, time period, looking at the original language roots of it, we see that it doesn't "contradict" itself at all. It might appear that way to many, at first, but the more you uncover it the more it all comes together. Thank you for your contribution! God bless!
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USMCwifey09posted 14 years ago
Also, just wanted to add:

Taking religion completely out of it: there is ACTUAL documentation that Jesus did in fact exist...
Letters and records from prisons in Rome dated from that time period between Roman guards, soldiers and officials communicate that there was a man from Jerusalem "creating a problem with the population"...his name was Jesus from Nazareth. The Vatican is in possession of some of this information, while more of it is accessible to the general population.

And of course the problem to which they refer was Him going against their "laws", spreading the Good News, and so on.

Simply google if you'd like to know more.
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  Swancyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  HI Friend. I'm a Christian and I'm going to answer your question with some honesty and openness. The biggest mistake most people make in reading the Bible and asking about this or that is they don't ask the important question of who is the Bible talking to and who is the Bible talking about. All the Old Testament passages you quote in your question were directed to and applied to the Jews only. It did not apply to Gentiles. Gentiles are every body who isn't a Jews. It didn't apply to Gentiles then and it sure doesn't apply now.
  
  The other thing you seem to be beating around Is it a Sin to be a Homosexual? Interesting question. It's no more a sin to be a homosexual than it is to be a liar or a cheat. In the new testament it clearly states in Rom 3:23
  
  For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God
  
  I think that includes everybody doesn't it?. Are there some Christian out there that will disagree with me. You can count on it! Do I think homosexuals should be denied marriage. Actually no I don't. In fact, because of an expertise I posses I have a hub that talks about how they can be legally married anywhere! If you do a search for my hub it's
  How You Can Be Married Without The State. The information is enlightening regardless of your persuasion.
  
  I do want to point out that your comments at the end of your questions are obviously self serving which is a shame.
  
  Any way I hope this helps you
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  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are two homosexuals that live a monogamous relationship for 50 years; any more of an abomination unto he Lord than a single heterosexual who has had 250 sexual partners???
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  Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Or a single priest who had 250 boys?
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  alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Or Ireland where a single boy could have 250 priests
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Who knows?
  But neither can be cleansed without repentance.
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  qwarkposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Swancy:
  The first 5 books of the OT (as corrupted as they are) are called the torah, the pentateuch.
  Every christian believer I've ever talked to tells me that the bible was inspired by god.
  Since "jew" is a religion and not an "ethnic" group, anyone can decide to become a jew, where in the world are you getting the idea that the alledged "words of god" were for only those of the jewish belief and not for all others who lived during those times?
  If you are going to straighten out those people who consider the bible to be a horribly written, corrupted and disgusting, deadly fairy tale how can you do it by exposing this biblical god as being imperfect?
  If this biblical god thing sent jesus here to straighten out his blunders, wouldn't that be indicative of this bibilcal god thing being less that perfect and not credible in ref to the words, which you christians claim to be its words promulgated by ancient humanoids, in a horrible piece of fictional literature?
  The OT says homosexuals should be killed. Jesus said this god thing changed it's mind?
  I could write for a couple hours exposing the contradictions and sillyness widespread in a book you refer to as the OT.
  In my mind you an uneducated, primitive thinker.
  Prove me wrong.
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Cagsilposted 14 years ago
Not really. When you really think about it. Not all.
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'll plant a tree for you too sir.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
Brenda Durham said ... But neither can be cleansed without repentance.

If I can stop and pick up any dirty dog off of the street that I want to to take it home and give it a bath; don't ya think that God can do the same thing at his discretion?

Christianity seems to put limits upon the Lord, that we just shouldn't. He can frown upon me when doing good and smile upon the (what aaai judge to be) most viale individual ever.

God doesn't look upon us through a thermoter that shows him the degrees on which we deserve loving.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, but many people put limits on how much they love Him, totally adversely to what He commanded.
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iantoPFposted 14 years ago
Waaw I go to work for 8 hours and come home to this; Shocked and amazed I am by the number of comments.
Brenda; I appreciate your sincerity but you raise more contradictions than you solve. in your last post you quote Jude. Jude quotes from the book of Enoch. This is an Apocryphal work written by an unknown Jew about 100BC. It is not considered canonical by the Jews, Catholics or Protestants.It seems Jude is the only Christian who thinks it is worth anything. By the way, Enoch is the sixth from Adam in spite of what the book of Enoch says; Adam, then Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared and Enoch. so how much weight do we put on this little letter?
TheGlassSpider; Now don't go getting upset. You are usually too level headed for all that.
I came to America in 1990 and was fascinated by talk radio. I listened avidly to Michael Jackson, The talk show host not the singer, Bill Press and Dennis Wheatley. Laura Schlessinger took the cake. She is a convert to Judiasm and you know how converts are, zealous and full of it. So I wrote it as a joke. Somehow it went viral.
Some of the contributors here write as if I don't know anything about the Bible. I have Hubs on Genesis and the book of Revelations, one of my most recent Hubs is about the way of the Pilgrim, a classic of Russian rthodox Christian literature where I also talk about the "Jesus Prayer" I have a number of articles here and elsewhere discussing various aspects of the Bible. I read more than I write.
Do I believe like a Jew or Christian? Absolutely not. The Bible is a collection of Hebrew Myths with a Middle Eastern legend.
If you wish to know about the path I follow theen read my Hub "My Gods" it's deeply personal but that's my foundation.
Gosh folks I'm only having a little fun. This is the last bit of serious I'm writing on this thread. Be warned, it's all downhill from here.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
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TheGlassSpiderposted 14 years ago
@iantoPF: Well, thank you for considering me level-headed - I have my moments on each end of the spectrum; I admit to being a bit cranky today. I have a tooth trying to teach me wisdom. LOL

I do sometimes get tired of the assumptions and labelling around here. I'm trying to learn to keep my fingers off the keyboard. LOL

Let the silliness commence.
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skyfireposted 14 years ago
Really ? god failed to save his a** on that wooden cross... so thank you for such delusional fact.
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Jewelsposted 14 years ago
That Rapture button is looking more and more like a toilet flushing mechanism.
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iantoPFposted 14 years ago
I hope the news isn't too bad. If it is you have my Best Wishes. Take care and be strong.
As for the watch analogy, Douglas Adams called this "Puddle thinking" that is ; Imagine a sentient puddle waking up one morning and saying;
"This is an interesting world I find myself in—an interesting hole I find myself in—fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!"
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I feel sorry for chickens and crayfish myself. So sad to be born delicious!
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  chickens eat gravel for digestion sake thats not really the point of uncleanness. As for crayfish etc.. each thing in the OT has spiritual implications.. bottomfeeders or sea filters, represent people who are full of crap. Odd you should feel sorry for crayfish.. lol! gotcha... keep preachin the sarcastic UN-word bro earnie.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Personal insults don't count as comments to me.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I thought that was funny. NO disrespect intended, just trying to clarify the shellfish thing. Carry on, i actually enjoy what you say. A good chuckle is indeed splendor to the soul.
  You can personal attack me if you want, i probably deserve it for past things i've said to you and about you.. of which i am sorry for my lack of christian respect. Thank god that this walk is a learning experience and you've taught me some things, annoying as they were . Cheers!
  
  Still it was a comment
  
  I've been a christian for a year and i still get angry at some things, but you seem to be chiseling those rough edges away.
  Sorry again for my rudeness. Carry on...
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lxxyposted 14 years ago
Oh, what do we have here?

Back off me man!

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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
The Bible is Infallible?

Hi friends

Bible is not infallible; it has been infallible if it has be authored by the infallible- the Creator-God Allah YHWH. It has been authored by the fallible scribes who deserted Jesus when he most needed them; so it has been written by the fallible scribes who hardly had any faith in Jesus. Bible is written from the hearsay, so it is most certainly fallible. The gospel writers hid the fact that Jesus had escaped a cursed death on the Cross; this proves that it is certainly fallible.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the bible does not hide that jesus did not die on the cross. All the blood that jesus profusely leaked would have been nullified if jesus hadn't died. No sacrifice can be made without the death of the sacrifice, any jew knows that. god is honest any person should know that. You should know that. Nowhere in the OT does it say that christ will almost die on the cross. The old testament states in many messianic prophecies that christs life must be shed. Common sense dictates that jesus gave up his life on the cross because as god in the flesh he could have hung there forever, but, needing to be resurrected from the dead he first needed to die. God is not a liar my peaceful friend. Your belief deceives you from that warped book qua'ran which was given to mohammed by an angel and contradicts every word in the bible. No book has ever been given to man by an angel, even that isn't scriptural and don't say mormon because we all know what a cult they are too. Good luck figuring it all out.
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Bible is not infallible
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  RevCRSanchezposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting You denounce what the Quran confirms. By doing so your undermine the creditabllity of the Quran.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
The bible is not infallible or edible, same for the quoran.
Hate filled psychotic tomes, both of them!
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  strutzasposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Haha, I could eat the Bible, and consequently dispose of it where it belongs, in the toilet!
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strutzasposted 14 years ago
Bible is infalliable i really believed that...
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  strutzasposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, the more I think about it, I believe that the Bible is the greatest STORY ever told. It is in fact just that, nothing more than a story given to us by the Catholic church. Here is Alan Watts talking about How We Got The Bible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw62X69hV-0
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Pcunixposted 14 years ago
You can't win this stuff, so why bother?

The believers will believe what the want to believe. If it makes them happy and makes some of them better people, I'm all for it.

I used to be a somewhat militant atheist, baiting theists in forums and making fun of them. I still make fun of them sometimes, but not the nice ones, only the crazed ones.

The crazed ones can be dangerous and some fellow atheists use that as a reason to hate religion. I like to think that for every crazed one, there are two or three very nice people who have been really helped by religion. I might protest that they don't need it, I might feel sad that they are fooling themselves, but if it helps them be better people, I am glad of that.

YMMV. I could be totally wrong, the good ones may not make up for the ugly ones. But that's what *I* choose to believe. That's MY faith.
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm curious about why you..."Make fun of", theists. A recent study shows those who goad others to incite an angry response may have an unconscious need for power linked to high testosterone levels.
  
  Many psycologists believe that shaming and guilt-tripping are without question the favorite tactics disturbed characters use to manipulate people with consciences that are more developed than theirs.
  
  What motivates you to make fun of these theists you describe as crazed?
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because some if it is so crazy you can't do anything but laugh at it.
  
  But please understand that although in my youth I was an angry atheist and would be nasty sometimes, anything I have done in recent years is gentle. If you can't take a little ribbing over extreme beliefs, you need to lighten up.
  
  As I said above, today I prefer to believe that the good of religion outweighs the bad. I don't KNOW that it does, but I like believing it. That makes me similar to many theists, doesn't it?
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  luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I meant no disrespect sir...many atheist on hubpages have a neurosis that causes them to tease...and in some extreme cases, insult other hubbers about their beliefs. I know many religious people on here do the same; however the question remains about why.
  
  Traditional thinking has always been that ego inflation always represents a “compensation” for underlying deficiencies in self-esteem.
  
  Such thinking also led many to presume that “underneath it all,” bullies are really cowards. Fortunately, some fairly sound science in the last 20 years has helped debunk this myth. The “compensation” metaphor still has some validity when you’re dealing with neurosis.
  
  Sometimes, it can appear like they’re struggling with compensation issues, but that’s because we often confuse the concepts of self-esteem and self-respect. In fact it often appears that those who attack others beleifs, often are searching for answers themselves.
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  Pcunixposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, as I said, I was nasty to some theists in my youth. My belief then was that religion was dangerous to society and since it obviously cannot be suppressed (wouldn't be moral to do even if you could), making fun of it might change peoples minds.
  
  I still think that a gentle poke can get some people to think and, if not abandon their religion, at least realize that they might be tragically wrong and therefore shouldn't be quite so gung-ho about insisting they are right.
  
  But -again - I stay on the light side now. I might remind a fervent believer in prayer that not a single mountain has ever been moved and no amputee has ever grown back an arm, but I am not going to dispute that prayer can improve peoples psyche and help them be better people.
  
  When someone says "Thank God Timmy was spared in that plane crash", I know they don't mean that their god had it in for the 200 people who did die. They are just happy for Timmy. It's silly, but it's OK.
  
  When some crazy preacher says his god caused an earthquake because of homosexuals, well, I have to laugh. He's nuts and he can't help it. I just hope that he is the forgiving kind and doesn't get any ideas about helping the Big Guy wreak havoc.
  
  I like to believe he won't. I have faith :-)
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you probably grew accountability and are probably more empowered now. angry atheists usually struggle with personal power.
  
  You are at a stage of consciousness called "the allower"and it is a very high level of awareness and certainty. I am not surprised if you easily move about the earth and get to your goals without much struggle.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i always say, the world is a giant mirror.
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  ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I always say that. You really can't change people's mind about things. But you can understand the motivation behind and pretty much just let them get their hit for the day.
  
  I find atheists of this nature though do excite conversations and they actually do manage to make you look at what you believe in as opposed to what you know. It's always good to put an atheist in a sea of religion oriented people. Like a little yang on the yin. It actually stabilizes them.
  
  However it can be annoying to have a grumpy old troll ruin a good discussion with his grumpiness.
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C.V.Rajanposted 14 years ago
A Hindu point of view:

"Scriptures contain both sand and sugar mixed together. The earnest seeker should segregate sugar from sand" - Ramakrishna Paramahamsa.

Scriptures like bible contain spiritual guidelines, spiritual advice, spiritual experience, moral advice, tips for peaceful living -- time-tested guidelines for living a life of peace and harmony (=sugar).

They also contain parts of history, codes of behavior, dos and don'ts which are applicable to a particular period, a particular sect, a particular critical situation or juncture. What was valid and dictated thousands of years ago would have lost their relevance today (=sand).

True spiritual seekers segregate the sugar and consume it after discarding the sand. If you want to condemn the scripture for the sand, you lose the sugar too.

By practicing homosexuality, does one gain lasting peace and happiness in the long run? Is it in tune with natural law?

For a homosexual, stealing may appear to be a bad human quality. But there are countless thieves thriving and making their living by stealing. Will the homosexual then say, stealing is natural and hence laws should allow stealing and it should not be punished? Will he say, any reference in Bible condemning stealing is out-dated and it's equivalent to "sand"?

CV
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
The scripture is infalible... too bad that no one knows how to read them
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The book is revealed little by little, line upon line, precept upon precept as the end time draws closer all will be revealed, even today new truths are coming to the forefront which will stagger the old beliefs and will they accept them? Probably not, this is an obstacle god has had to contend with throughout time. The receptivity of the people. Don't blame the people many hubbers here refute the bible for a score of reasons. Many christians never want to be wrong about any part of their belief, but we have denominations of different beliefs, an evolution of revealed facts and new doctrine, for instance, baptists don't believe in speaking in tongues but pentecostals do. An evolution of revelation and don't forget, the catholic church held their pagan beliefs over the church for centuries but that too is being broken down today as many leave that belief for the truth.
  So when u say what you said, remember, there is a time for everything, and one day the veil will lift off of the book of revelation too and that will add another denomination of doctrine no doubt, but all is on time and on schedule.
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appletonpierceposted 14 years ago
I am just wandering if the Bible is inerrant and/or infallible and If so why and how. If not, why and how. I prefer to see how it is infallible.
P90x Workout
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WizardOfOzposted 14 years ago
A turd is infallible, so what?

Nice thread.

I read the first page but I am too late to jump in on the good bits.

Cheerio.
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
The Bible is Infallible

Hi friends

No the Bible is fallible as it is written by the unbelieving and deserting scribes; it is neither Word from the Creator-God Allah YHWH nor written by Jesus. It has got many a mistakes in it therefore.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
reply report

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