If you were able to experience a different set of beliefs than the ones you currently hold, which religion/traditions would you choose?
If you could walk in another person's shoes for about day, a week or a month, which sort of shoes would you step into?
Personally, I keep being drawn to Jainism - for the non-violence aspects of the religion...
In Western Canada where I'm from, I've mentioned Jainism often lately to my friends and they're questioning my sanity, I'm sure lol
About a week ago, I decided to try and walk in another's (Jain) shoes for just one day, trying to adhere to just one principle (of non-violence) for one day... this meant I had to blow a couple of mosquito bugs off me instead of slapping at them, walk around some beetles and centipedes that were on the sidewalk, and - late in the day, I tried to incorporate further "no-harm" principles and take all sarcasm out of my speaking for several hours (that last part was very difficult)... It was a very interesting day.
It took me about 3 days afterward to resume being "me" and I found I didn't like going back as far to "me" as I thought I would... I notice sarcasm more now and at least one friend has said/asked, "You're so 'mindful' lately - what's up?" (a lot of the jokes I might have laughed at last week... no longer seem funny - I can hear the "harm" in them).
Perhaps we really do spend too much time stuck in defending our beliefs...
I personally feel i know myself well enough not to have to wander
The exercise wasn't so much for me to know myself better... but to try and understand the beliefs of other people, the pink umbrella...
I suppose, to your way of thinking, it was "wandering." Never thought of that before...
Maybe I'm more curious about other traditions than you are. Then again - sometimes my curiosity gets me into trouble lol
I think this is an interesting way of challenging one self. I do it occasionally, but - really - what you did is not what you tried to. What you did is try to do no harm.
Which is interesting in itself - but the true goal of Jainism - as i Understand it - is non-attachment, which is extremely hard to achieve in a day - And I would like to bet you did not give all your possessions away. lol
A day is too easy. Changing your habits - that is where it gets interesting. When you do it long enough to re-write your habitual actions.
There are many ways to do this kind of exercise. Try doing everything left handed (assuming you are right handed) for a week. That really makes you realize how many of your daily actions are on auto pilot.
My most interesting experiment was to go vegetarian for a year. After listening to so many vegetarians crow about how great they felt and how "natural" it was - I decided to suck it and see. I learned that it can be really very difficult to find a selection of meals when you are eating out, and you need to be really creative to avoid getting bored. But - aside from feeling less full all the time - I was not impressed with the so-called benefits.
I personally have no hankering to adopt any religious beliefs - but I do like to try some of the rituals, because that is where the heart of the matter tends to be.
I admit, I didn't give all my possessions away or challenge myself very much for one day - however - it did take a great number of reminders to myself to behave with "no-harm" intended and such... I wouldn't be able to, at this point, incorporate full Jain principles of living into my life but I wanted to understand something - even if only a small something - of how another person might view the world.
What struck me most was the point late in the day when I realized that "non-violence" goes with "no-harm" and that the no-harm principle also targets "sarcasm," and that to move forward more with Jainism, I would have to watch my words, not just my actions... made me have to be careful about my thoughts, be mindful.
Definitely challenging - I wasn't a very good Jain, that's for sure lol
Rituals... such as???
Rocking your body
Sitting surrounded by burning candles and thinking about life
Varies, but many belief systems have similar rituals - some of them think they are special and get you in touch with a invisible super being. Some of them think they are perfectly normal and get you in touch with everything around you.
The ones with the invisible super being call the rituals of any one else - "pagan rites."
And then they build gold statues, burn incense and chant Latin.
I like drumming - Djembe drums - and find drumming circles are a great experience but I haven't thought much about rituals.
The drum circles I've participated in are pretty much "beginner" groups and I'm just learning but maybe I'll check out your list of ritual items... haha practice my Wheelock Latin at the next drum circle!
Hi friend mythbuster
There is no harm in studying other religions and faiths but oly accept that which is reasonable , rational and is based on Word of Revelation from the Creator-God Allah YHWH.
Since you have studied Jainism; can you state who started it and on what basis?
I respect your freedom of religion; just want to know for my knowledge.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
You dont respect others freedom of religion
Though there are thought to be 23 Tirthankaras that came before him, the one called Mahavir (559-527 BCE) is the one most people refer to as being the main example of living Jain lifestyle and principles. The lifestyle is one of asceticism and of renouncing material items, of incorporating non-violence principles into every thought and action - of reverence for all life.
Mahavir was allegedly a prince who renounced a life of power and comfort in order to learn to live as "unattached" to material things.
Hi friend mythbuster
Thanks for your answer. I think it is impossible to live without killing the creatures that the Creator -God Allah YHWH has made for our consumption. Now we know that even Botanical things are living; then there are germs, useful ones, in everything we drink and eat. Water, milk, honey etc; so the concept is not practical if extended to its logical conclusions.
The humans could eat and drink things allowed by the Creator-God Allah YHWH with His name; and not eating or drinking things which he has commanded us not to eat.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
I get what you're saying, paarsurrey, but would you step outside of whatever comfort or belief zone you've been accustomed to in order to try and see something in a different belief system/tradition?
Hi friend mythbuster
I don't mind that; if it is done as a research; otherwise it is not practical in our era; in ancient times man did no know that everything has germs, useful germs, in it.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
I am always comfortable in my own shoes.
I would convert to any other religion or irreligion if I am convinced that they have got the absolute TRUTH. I am with the truth whereever it is.
It is a very difficult task, as you've found out already.
However, when I was younger, I was raised by my mother and father who were Catholic, not devout, but believed in god. Thus, Jesus was part of my daily life. I honored my mother and father by participating within the Catholic community, trying to learn as much as I could.
It wasn't until I was 22, when I decided to take it more seriously and began to study more in-depth about it. Thus, I learned to walk the path "doctrine" teaches.
The main focus was to understand the Major 3 Doctrines of Catholicism and maintain it within my life. As my study continued, I discovered my life became even more difficult, because the Bible itself did very little to explain, as to what extent or manner, the doctrine was to be handled.
After about 10 years, I realized the doctrine couldn't be fulfilled by any living human being on Earth. Thus, was false.
I suffered many setbacks, because of the undefined nature of the Doctrine as indicated within scripture and explained by Priests/Teachers/Nuns and the like.
Doctrine #1) To be selfess is false and unattainable. Because, it turns one into a very selfish person, which is diametrically opposite of the teachings.
Doctrine #2) To oppress all desires is false and unattainable. Because, it leads one to go insane. Scientifically proven.
Doctrine #3) To believe in god is false and unattainable. Because, it is impossible to convince or circumvent the nature of man or woman, with regards to complete faith not based on what can be proven to oneself. And, anyone stating otherwise is dishonest, because science can proven that doubt still exists regardless of mentality.
Thus, a revelation comes to self- there is no god. Once, self realizes the true nature of meaning "god", then one realizes that they are "god" in their life and have complete control.
End of story.
Cagsil, are you trying to seduce me?
ok, now i feel like your making fun of me...
Now, why would you feel such a thing. Don't you like it when people laugh with you. And, I'm pretty sure that you don't mind being "licked" in certain spots...especially erotic places.
*honestly, not making fun of you*
,,,woah! ok then...at least im not the only one feeling randy tonight! lmao
Well, I guess I tipped my hand...and should have stayed with pleading the 5th?
ugh, no its just...im so....ugh!!!!!!!!!!!! your not helping eith the dity talk, thats all. lmao!
nah, i started it, lol not your fault.
Oh okay, so it's okay to tell you're a beautiful lady and....
Well, I really don't think this is the place to get you anymore riled up than you are already.
But, if I were to venture into the unknown....sexy, creative, sexy, intelligent, sexy, adorable...um...uh oh..
See, now you are going to think I'm trying to seduce you.
I plead the 5th.
awe, you think im adorable!!! lol. haha
Wow, Cagsil, your "walk" was very in-depth.
I like how you've itemized 3 points of doctrine... I will think on those awhile but I can see how the results of your walk into Catholicism led to bad results for you.
I'm glad I just tried one or two principles of my choice for just a short time...
I am who I am today, because of that walk. It's was not an easy walk to take, to say the least.
Because, when constantly adhering to being "selfless", it became evident that others would take advantage of my willingness to help them, which lead me to help certain people more often than possible and left no time to help others. So, I ended up becoming selfish with my time and picky about who I helped.
The second one, requires you oppress the desires, all of which, was emotional draining to the point, where I was not able take pleasure in any emotional release.
The third one, always left a nagging feeling(hope) based on faith, that there was a god. Thus, could not reach 100% belief.
I hope that helped explain it.
you only "walked" for a day, how can you even come close to realization after only one day? So you avoided killing bugs, wow.
I can't come close to realization of too many things after just one day, the pink umbrella, but, I definitely DID attempt to suspend some of my own beliefs and very mindfully adhere to other beliefs, behavior and thinking for one day.
The point I was trying to make that even in 1 day, the realization that my regular habits were questionable (sarcasms in speech that aren't really necessary to use, mindless killing of small creatures just 'cos they're in my way when I can choose to walk around them, etc), was a surprise to me.
Ugh...you know im going to be all aware of bugs and things, and what i say all day tommorow now...im so impressionable...sheesh!
Cool. Let us know how that works out for you.
recently got rid of a bad flea infestation, lucky im not doing it with fleas arond, can you imagine not killing those little sukers...lol
I can relate... My recent "Jain" day ideas aren't going over too well with the fact that I left an old lunch bag sitting on the floor near the door...
Thought I had finished the whole lunch "that day"
But there was a banana I forgot about lol
You know what THAT means?
If one was to follow that way for a day one would not only have to refrain from responding in a sarcastic manner one would also have to refrain from responding to the sarcasm of others. In order to practice a "way" - it must be done from both being at cause over or going the effect of.
Sarcastic comments are just that, comments and it is not necessary to respond to a comment only to an origination.
I gave up sarcastic remarks only after I realized how truly cutting they are and how they gum up communication and harm relationships.
So, in response to pink umbrella's comment, there is no need to respond to it only to get at cause by asking yourself, "Have I ever done that?" Sure fired way to keep you from being at the effect of others negative comments and it enables you to own and take responsibility for your own "stuff".
I think what you did was an interesting experiment on the effects of adhering to a specific belief system - even if you only dipped your toe into the proverbial waters.
Thanks for your response, raisingme.
Your words on sarcasm are interesting... I have to say, it was strange to me that at the end of my day of trying to adhere to some unfamiliar principles, it ended up being a more "abstract" aspect (use of words and thinking) of my day that stuck with me the most - not the behaviors/actions around walking around bugs.
That makes total sense considering you would have to get the "being" in place before the doing. So the be-liefs would be where the struggle or the strangeness would kick in as the do only follows the be. I have experimented with "what would it be like if I" but have never applied that process to different belief systems.
Funny the places our curiosity takes us...n' some places not so funny at all.
Yeah - I didn't find it funny at all to realize that, along with having probably killed a bazillion pesky flies, mosquito and other bloodsucker bugs - moreso, my words have probably harmed in the past...
So I think I'm still watching more carefully about "words" these days. I'm no stranger to "switching principles" tho'...
I am a recovering addict, so I stepped into some new principles pretty quickly and fully not so long ago...
Sarcastic...who's being sarcastic, i was asking how he got any enlightenment from one day, that is all...there was no sarcasm in that...it was a question.
Would you mind leaving me out of your negativity bubble please??
I don't think she was directly addressing what you specific said as sarcasm. I only think that Raisingme was expanding on what you said- "one day" type experiment.
i dont know, the way i read it, it was that there was no need to respond to my comment because it would make him thing negatively about only doing this experiment for one day...can you really avoid your own negative thoughts that well? I mean, especially if the question asked of you is in no way negative? Do you really not answer for fear that your answer will cause you negative thoughts? Weird to me, maybe im not understanding this well.
I think I "get" what you're saying about the previous post, the pink umbrella... the stuff about sarcasm and responding or not responding to it?
I felt you MAY have been sarcastic (before raisingme's post) in responding to me but I also understood that I just brought up the topic of sarcasm, so I shouldn't judge what your comments were and immediately deem them as "sarcasm" - or I should give you a chance to state your opinions fully before judging them since this is an open thread/forum.
I just read your profile page... how much lore have you got on "jersey devil"? One of my fave crypto/lore topics.
I have tons of books, and hearsay from around town, and every available weird nj magazine there is, and I love love love the topic of the Jersey Devil! Are you from Nj?
Heck no - I'm in Canada - the wrong side of Canada, too, from where the Monster of Leeds has allegedly been sighted! lol
I'm in Western Canada - prairie province area - Leeds Devil has apparently got a nice fan club over in Ontario!
Fantastic story - I think people need to talk more about this phenomena/entity. Great lore.
The Leeds devil!? ugh, i thought he was New Jersey's only! Im a little disapointed!!!!!!
Leeds (district) is in New Jersey! Same crypto-dude-phenomena
Leeds - the child of Mother Leeds... called the "mother" of that Leeds region in New Jersey...
Great urban legend stuff... many versions - you probably know a LOT of ones I've never heard
Was not referring to your question. Was referring only to the comment "So you avoided killing bugs, wow." And used it only as an example of sarcasm, as a means of demonstrating how one handles their own and others' sarcastic remarks in view of the fact that mythbuster was trying to deal with. his own sarcastic tendencies. Your question was a perfectly valid one. Your sarcasm was just a handy example and it was sitting right there so I used it. I should have been clearer and indicated what part of your communication I was referring to by separating the question from the comment. What I could have said rather than "So, in response to pink umbrella's comment" is, as an example pink umbrella's comment "So you avoided killing bugs, wow" there is no need to respond to it. A question such as you asked is an origination and it begs a response. A comment is just a comment and requires no response whether it is a sarcastic comment or a comment about the weather.
I hope this clears up my communication for you.
As for your question "can you really avoid your own negative thoughts that well...especially if the question asked of you is in no way negative?" Your question wasn't negative. Any question asked produces thoughts, negative, positive or neutral. What ever is sitting on the other end of the question, ie. the answer is what it is, negative or positive. You can ask one person "Where did you go to school in grade 3" and it will trigger thoughts. For some they will be negative and bring to view 'stuff' that happened in grade 3 and for another it will simply trigger the answer - I went to such and such school. There is no avoiding what is sitting right there.
And not to worry, it was only mild sarcasm and mythbuster does not appear to be "cut" by it....least I don't see any blood.
You may be confusing quality with quantity, the pink umbrella. I didn't set out to become a Jain - I set out to try and understand some things I'd never thought much about before.
The fact that I only worked with one or two new principles for a day didn't lead me to enlightenment, that's true but I am more mindful of certain things and found some of my previous beliefs to be questionable. I'm glad I found this out but wouldn't have found anything out if I hadn't been willing to try something new.
If I were to put into this question a year ago, I would have said 'Buddhism' & the true teachings of Buddha. But many things has changed in last one year...
OH WOW! Before this gets anymore out of hand. I'm off to bed. Good night everyone.
Good night, Cagsil - thanks for sharing your experience! Sleep well.
To which of form of Buddhism Theravada, Mahayana, and Vajrayana, Zen do you refer to? The practice of any religion requires more than one day. It is the continual practice that causes a change in one's self; internally first that becomes manifested externally into your daily life.
If you were willing to walk with some different principles for a day than you normally hold, which principles/religion or tradition would you choose?
Yea, i get what your saying, but just the mindset of something even of for a blip like a day might be able to make you think differently, even if just a little. I dont know, i think a 1 day blip is kinda short, but what do i know? I need not venture from myself!
I would suggest Theravada...but I believe even that is not the actual form Buddha's teachings.
Could you explain Theraveda a little bit, Rishy Rich?
I just know a bit about Buddha-tales, mythology around the personality known as Buddha/Siddhartha Gautama.
Well Im not an expert of Buddhisim but I will try to portray my understaings as much as possible. I believe Theravada Buddhism goes closest to Buddha's actual teachings. Theravada does not talk about worshipping God or the Buddha. Rather than having blind faith it focuses on REASONING & INVESTIGATION. They take the world as a place of suffering & stress almost like the Hell of other religions. Theres a term called 'Maya' which can be compared to the word 'Illusion'. Love, sex, money, greed, fame, respect...everything that we value in this world is actually the outcome of the Maya. Its the goal of every human to break through this illusion & attain Nirvana by following certain paths.
However, the concept of Nirvana is very complex. Most people confuse nirvana with connecting with God or becoming a part of God. But Buddha never taught anything like that. Nirvana is actually a state of non-existence. But to understand the non-existence state of Buddha, we need to realize it in a positive way. Buddha also tried to taught the bright sides of non-existence (although I havent read that part yet). Buddha taught that if there are Gods, they are also sufferers in this MAYA & attaining Nirvana is also their destiny. But being all that powerful & with all that pleasure (Gods mentioned in Hinduism), it is quite impossible for them to attain enlightenment. Thus Buddha actually gave humans a higher status than God & mentioned it is the best form or state for a species to attain Nirvana. Other than that, Buddha didnt talk much about God, in fact he made fun of Gods in many instances just like the atheists & philosophers of 18th century. In short, everyone must get free from this cycle of rebirth, get banished & end these universe full of sufferings...yeh I think this is pretty much what they believe.
right now, I could do with walking in the shoes of someone who lives in a lovely home, that is warm and clean and has all the mod cons without any hassles, with that feeling of safety and love.
Really a useful information !!!!!!!!!
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