sin without the law?

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   haj3396posted 14 years ago

   Can you sin without the law?

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      kessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      There is sin within  the Law and Sin without law.
      For having the knowledge of good and evil brings with it "Sin".
      All law perpetuates sin.
      But Sin itself does not nor can ever exist, except to those who are sinners indeed.

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      1. 52

         haj3396posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         but, thats not scriptural, look at this  Roman 4:15 Romans 4:15
         Because the law worketh wrath: for where NO LAW is, [there is] no transgression. transgression is sin.

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         LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Kess,
         
         Sin exists whether you are a sinner or not.... you just said it, "All law perpetates sin."

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            Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The law reveals people's wrong doings, it does not cause them.
            Ridiculous.
            Another Pauline follower

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         gregster77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Sorry
         
         I am just a sinner but yet is alive
         
         I was born with a defect, a malicious effect
         
         In the beginning they chose the forbidden fruit
         
         Therefore I am now born with the devilish root
         
         Please restore Your child and bless me in Your name
         
         I need forgiveness I beg, please pardon, being I am only to blame
         
         My life is dying as I still am falling
         
         All wondering and wandering being obliterated
         
         I am so ashamed of how my sins are reiterated
         
         If only I could stop learning by experience
         
         I need to realize that its joy by obedience
         
         My Heavenly Father, the creator, died for me in expedience
         
         Knowing it’s for eternal immortality restitution
         
         Nevertheless, still I sin in vain
         
         Living a lie with an illuminate stain
         
         My life should be for His gain
         
         Instead I destroy it mindfully inane
         
         The faith I have but I lack the gift
         
         They say it’s simple but my soul is at rift
         
         Oh Lord, please sanctify with Your Holy blood so I may be on top of the cliff
         
         I am scared of tribulations and running from saying, if!
         
         Confused, lost, and just want to die, adrift
         
         On my knees I cried grasping I had grace
         
         Stood up and gave thanksgiving knowing He did set me free
         
         I praise and worship you Fatherly Love Christ Jesus
         
         In harmony, truth and spirit you reunited us
         
         I am cheerful wanting to dance like King David
         
         My soul is at rest now all blissful like cupid
         
         It is really a gain to live and die for Christ
         
         Excluding, the tribulation and persecution is very chastise
         
         In merciful peace my head is up being guided proud
         
         Yes, the Lord is coming back to a vicious crowd
         
         But victory was assured on Calvary
         
         So I say thank you Yeshua for being my reality
         
         I exalt your name on high for You only is worthy

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      LeslieAdrienneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Haj3396
      
      Nope, because the law defines sin.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Who's law or laws are you referring to,God's or Man's? Truth be known Man's Laws were and are God's laws from the very beginning of time itself. Every law on the books today in any court in any land, is a law of God.

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         Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Your god looks quite stupid with such laws: http://www.dumblaws.com/law/1
         
         

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            gregster77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            did u just say god is stupid well...ok cool i can see that.....god allah moon god is paganism so yea dum...wicca gods dums.druid gods dum.....voodoo gods even the dummenst
            
            YHVH IS INDEED THE ALMIGHTY ALPHA AND OMEGA ALL PRAISE IS TO CHRIST JESUS GOD OF all.......so watch what u say bro...remember you live in realms that you do not know.........so be aware of the supernatural around you.....the words you say can bring calamity.....so please lay low unless u want a fatality

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               gregster77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               FAITH IN CHRIST
               
               Lord Christ I come to you again
               
               My friend thank you, our love shall never end
               
               With you all is love, and will always stand
               
               You law is real and active, true and tactic
               
               To not go by the Bible way one must be a lunatic
               
               My world is a dream, but your light makes it realistic
               
               Christ Jehovah I am assured in you
               
               Faith is love as love is amazingly you
               
               I have nothing now but to praise you
               
               On my knees I surrender and grant you all worship
               
               Honesty, joy with no discrimination, what a friendship
               
               My Heavenly Father CHRIST JESUS, I love you
               
               Sacrifice on Calvary, great victory
               
               Change in spirit, trade of corruptive nature
               
               I am speechless on how you are so almighty
               
               All I needed was understanding of your love, what an adventure
               
               My brother, my shepherd indeed YOU are worthy
               
               I am sinner and still you seek me, what a gesture
               
               Great compassion in your flaming eyes, I give you all the glory
               
               Great peace has those who love your law
               
               In danger our those with their faith in thaw
               
               My Lord your grace is miraculous, your mercy haves no flaw
               
               I fear and have my trust in you for your wrath in raw
               
               Yet again your righteousness is pure and brings me in awe
               
               I love you dearly and your word is my craw
               
               Your love is pure acid which melts sand devil’s claw the scarlet haw
               
               Your law is correction making beautiful all maws from this malicious wind-flaw
               
               I praise you with all you gave me is true harmony
               
               I comprehend with such peace nothing causes me to stumble
               
               Now I know why you made me so humble
               
               I am a champion in your name, I will never crumble
               
               Your word is my footsteps I will never tumble
               
               You are my guideline and will not allow variance nor rumble
               
               I shall obey deliberately in passion of your holy scriptures
               
               You are so adorable, how very applaud-able
               
               My life is your very desires just that simple

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               Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               What? Can I call you an immediate care?

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               alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I think you forgot to take ALL the pills !!  I guess this is talking in tongues ?  nobody except you really understands what you say huh ?

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               Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               _________________________________________
               
               Worshiping a person called Jesus Christ as the Father, is worshiping idols.
               There is only one God.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Why do you insist on asking such stupid questions?

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      Deaconessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Please begin to read your bible in context. Whenever the NT talks about "the law" being superseded by faith, it isn't talking about God's Laws or the Torah, it is speaking of ONE specific directive... that of circumcision... the author is trying to explain that one does not have to be circumcised to honor God's covenant and receive its promised blessings.

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         Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         True
         Those who put the letter of the law and did not live by the weighter things of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith
         Matthew 23:23
         Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

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         gregster77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         circumcision is ordained by GOD THROUGH THE JEWS physically..but spiritually through the gentiles...physically it separated the Jews and the gentiles  but now spiritually it reunites the world to GOD AKA CHRIST JESUS
         AKA YHVH..........follow the commandments and love one another as thyself
         
         the confusion is just an illusion by the devil...you rule over the devil .read your Bible prayerfully and vigilantly than see the mystery

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            Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            _____________________________________________________
            Yahshua never said he is God. That is not what is meant by "God in the flesh"
            He did say he is the son of God.
            
            Before we can instruct others, we have to understand what we are teaching.

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      gregster77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      there is no sin without law for the law identifies sin.......

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      Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      If anyone sins, they are bound to the Law.
      For the law exists to manifest all the things of the human mind: good/evil; right/wrong.
      
      Before the Law manifest, sin was. Sin was the Knowledge of Good/Evil -which simply means indulging your own mind, your self.
      
      When the Law came it showed the sin, convicted it but was powerless to destroy it. So Faith came.
      Now the Law has fulfilled its purpose, all things can be brought --once more-- under Grace.

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2. 72

   Cagsilposted 14 years ago

   Can you sin without the law?
   
   You make reference to sin, which is a religious term. It's meaningless outside of religion.
   
   The Law? The only laws people should be living by are common morality, which is based on and from Integrity. That includes being dishonest with self.

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      haj3396posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      We have tried that it done work, do you have something else. Is sin a religious term, then your states you made are religious terms Integrity and dishonest. How can we get away from religious terms, when that's what we live by and are govern by.

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         How foolish of you to put integrity and dishonesty labeled as a religious term, for which, neither are. Yes, they are in religion, but have a life outside of religion unlike sin only has a life inside religion.
         
         So...please.

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            haj3396posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No one have a life outside of religion, the world is Grover by religion.

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               Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               

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                  gregster77posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  religion is man made folks.....CHRIST DID NOT COME TO TEACH A NEW RELIGION HE IN FACT TAUGHT LOVE AND HIS TEACHINGS WERE BASED ON GOD AND THE OLD TESTAMENT IN KEEPING ALL JEW BASED HOLIDAYS AS PASSOVER AND SO ON....CHRISTIANITY IS SUPPOSED TO TEACH A RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST JESUS AKA Y'SHUAH AKA GOD NOT ANOTHER RELIGION OR ORGANIZATION...WE ARE ONE FAMILY OF HUMAN RACE CREATED BY ONE GOD YHVH AKA CHRIST JESUS

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                     alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     writing in capital letters is kinda shouting in the forums - it is considered rude.

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                     Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     ______________________________________________________
                     Yahshua is not Jesus Christ nor is He God
                     The Bible you say you understand teaches that

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               earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Your world may be "Grover" by religion!

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   Until someone told you that you are naked You were not Naked, you just were.
   
     Until someone told you that it was wrong for you to pick apples off of your neighbors tree and eat them ,... It wasn't.
   
     To do something that seems natural to do wasn't wrong until we began to believed that it was wrong.
   
   
     That is why you may not see something as being wrong and I do.
     I see how it is detrimental to me and I tell you that it is wrong. If you believe me and do it again , .  then you believe it is wrong so it is. You would also be lacking in the aspect of loving thy neighbor as thy self. But if you didn't believe that you were supposed to, would that be wrong??

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      Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      ____________________________________________
      
      
      
      No, you realize you are naked when you know the meaning of naked. Not knowing makes you no less naked.
      
      If a person is old enough to pick apples off their neighbors tree, they know it is wrong if not invited to do so. They also know it is wrong for the neighbor or anyone to steal from them. And it is wrong even though you don't know it is.
      It is ridiculous to think something is wrong only when you know it is.
      
      A person has an innate knowledge of right and wrong.
      
      Something that is wrong, is wrong even if you think it's not.
      A Serial killer may not care what's right or wrong either.
      Many things you feel is OK will land you in jail.
      
      I see you follow the Pauline doctrine, making excuses for lawlessness.

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         Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I would question 'innate' here. A person cannot survive early childhood without being looked after and brought up by parents, guardians or society in general. This process of socialisation is what instills an awareness of the expected norms of behaviour. Ethics are societal at root. Innateness is an untestable theory as there can be no unsocialised people, by definition.

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            Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            ____________________________________________________
            I'll have to disagree. Although the brain grows and rewires itself up into the teenage years. The basic brain is wired by the time a child is 3 years old.
            Emotions, social reactions, and morals are wired in the part of the brain called the prefrontal cortex, just above the eyes.
            
            Knowing what is right or wrong is innate/inborn.
            Studies have been done on people with brain damage.

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               Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               A child doesn't get to be three years old without being socialised. Three days is longer than a newborn would survive without society.
               
               Prenatal or perinatal studies into awareness of right and wrong cannot be carried out. So at the very least, I think you'd have to accept that your assertion is untested.

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                  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  __________________________________________
                  Sir, many studies have been done. In infants and adults.
                  
                  The most telling studies are those done with patients who have brain damage in the pre-frontal cortex at birth and as an adult.
                  
                  These people show more aggression, judgment and contempt for others. These studies confirm what part of the brain controls social responses and what happens when that part of the brain is damaged.
                  
                  So you know more than those who work in the field of Neuroscience?

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                     alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Neuroscience just tells us where the various organs that process these things are located.  Paraglider is obviously correct here.

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            AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Good God. This is the first sensible post I have seen in a looong time.

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               Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Really?
               The things people will believe

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         Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Not that I would agree to any word... All of that is learned, and not all what you mentioned is considered wrong in all cultures across the globe. And some cultures consider wrong things that you do daily without second thought.

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            Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The thread started out as God's laws
            
            Killing
            Stealing
            
            
            It is not all learned it is innate. Look it up
            I was not saying naked is wrong, I was saying you realize you are naked when you know what naked means.I was responding to what Jerami said about it.
            
            Two parents can raise several kids, one can be very  different from another despite being taught and treated the same.

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               Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Ninjas come to mind first, but there are definitely parts of your own culture even that regard killing and stealing as a regular occupation. Military for example, let alone criminals. Kids don't have a concept of property and grab others' belongings as they like them without a hesitation. They learn to respect property over time, but this is a leaned virtue, not innate - and most still don't learn it fully as they support taxation.
               
               Kids kill smaller creatures on the spot, just out of curiosity, and would kill bigger ones including humans given a chance.

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                  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  ____________________________________________
                  
                  Nothing you have implied says they don't know it's wrong
                  
                  It is the "not caring" or the "I've got a cause so it's OK", that is conditioned into people.

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                     Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Nothing you said proves they do

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   Deborah Sextonposted 14 years ago

   Frontal lobe injury http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s … &gl=us

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   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   "A person has an innate knowledge of right and wrong."
   
   
   I agree with it; Quran mentions it:
   
   [75:15] Nay, man is a witness against himself;
   [75:16] Even though he puts forward his excuses.
   
   http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=14

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   Deborah Sextonposted 14 years ago

   Medical doctors and books agree with me.

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      Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      All of them?
      
      Besides, doctors and authors are heavily influenced by the culture they grew in and reside in.
      
      Besides, thinking for oneself and actually checking if what one reads and hears matches their life experience is a useful virtue.
      
      And my personal life experience and observations show to me beyond reasonable doubt that kids likely learn that stuff, not get born with it.
      
      But then I have no interest in converting you Deb, so I think I am done with this thread

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         Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         ____________________________________________
         Misha, I didn't mean to offend you. I was just debating this.
         
         All of the doctors in the field of Neuroscience agree.

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            Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You did not offend me Deb, I am just agreeing to disagree.

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               Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Good

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   ralwusposted 14 years ago

   methinks you sinned just by posting this stupid question.

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