And an estimated 2.5 million in America.
If they were all extremists filled with vitriol and hatred for all non-Muslims, then they would have killed you all already.
Get over yourselves. I, for one, won't be starting a hate campaign against 22% of the global population.
You are right there; we have to learn peaceful co-existence.
You have a charitable approach; I appreciate it.
I have a selfish interest in this, my local Muslim noodle shop is the BEST. Here in China the Muslims make the best street BBQ and breakfast noodles, I found their Mosque the other day near the town centre, just behind the Christian church. I got photos of the Mosque but did not have my camera when I found the church. I am going back to take a look around inside both of them next time I am waiting for 'her' to come out of work late.
If Star Wars has taught us anything (Episode III) is that you need to get all your pieces in place before you execute Order 66.
It is unfortunate that extremists in every faith mange to tarnish the image of the vast majority of peace loving people.It is like war...our leaders get us into it...but did anyone ask us if that is what we wanted?
LOL. Have to disagree here. Just because they're large in number doesn't discount them with label as tolerant, peacefull. Even pope is preaching anti-condom campaign,so if 70% population comes under christianity then does that mean its true?peaceful?
Quran and bible has verses against non-believers or other religions. Take it in any context. So that makes them peaceful huh?
One needs to see how these religions are tolerant towards other religions and non-religious. You'll find plenty of muslims near temples,church. Let me know if hindus. christians are allowed near mecca.
Just because 1 milion people eat at dominoz doesn't make it healthy.
That's appeal to popularity fallacy.
I agree Allah teaches love and peaceful co-existence,
The almighty God which is the same God teaches love and peaceful co-existence
Love thy neighbor
Love thy enemies
Not only have I been 'near' a mosque, I have also been inside a fully functional mosque, whilst a sermon was taking place. At no point was I asked my religion, I was clearly wearing typical western attire (as were the 20 odd members of my group), and the only requirement was that I did not talk loudly inside and that I took my shoes off. At no point were we accompanied or followed.
It was this one in fact...
At no stage did I feel intimidated, nobody even really looked at me. So in answer to your question, YES I do believe that Christians or Hindus could enter into a Muslim place of worship, as could the irreligious such as myself. And if you care to visit Istanbul, a city which is 98% Muslim, you can see for yourself.
Mecca is of course in Saudi Arabia, also the home of Al Qeada financiars, and the roots of The Taliban. Saudi Arabia is the true home of terrorism, I agree with you. Why the hell therefore are your troops in Afghanistan or Iraq? Why focus on Iran? This war is supposed to be a war on terrorism, not on religion. Why is the US not waging war against Saudi Arabia therefore?
Now that we have established that Saudi Arabia is the true home of radicalised Islam, tell me what you have against the Egyptians, Turkish, the United Arab Emirates? Albanians? Algerians? Azerbaijan? Benin? Burkina Faso? Ethiopians? 160 million Indians? 22 million Chinese? the Ivory Coast? Kazakhstan? Kyrgyzstan? Malaysia? Mali? Mauritiana? Morocco? Qatar? 35% of Tanzania? Tunisia? Uzbekistan?
What problems are you facing from those countries? None? No your not. Like I said, Islam is widely peaceful. Just as Christianity is widely peaceful. The pure ignorance astounds me.
Indeed it's my ignorance when i mentioned Mecca in my post, not just any Mosque. I'm already aware of their tolerance in any other mosque.
You cannot compare a church with Mecca, they are two completely seperate entities. One being a structure and another being a city. I reference Mecca in my reply, and like I said; Saudi Arabia is the home of Islamic terrorism. It is not necessarily the home of Islam.
Comparing a church with Mecca is like me comparing my apartment with New York, nonsense. I can compare your apartment with my apartment however. Would Marc Grizzard allow entry to his church to a woman wearing a Muslim headscarf and talking in Arabic? I very much doubt it. There are extremist views on both sides, I am happy sitting firmly in the middle in disbelief at the ignorance and pettiness of those who spout hatred and vitriol from any religion.
I am at peace with Islam, just as I am at peace with Christianity. Worshippers of both share the common straight of being victims of widespread indoctrination, I pity them all.
Saudi Arabia is not necessarily the home of terrorism but it's fundamentalist in that religion that are the root of terrorism. And you can find them in almost every country. It's fundamentalist who imposed such restrictions which makes Islam less peaceful. If you've islamic friends who are religious then you know how easy it is to brainwash them under the name of quran and religion. Fundamentalist and less-skeptical behavior of the Muslim people is the PRIME reason US managed to manipulate Muslims in Afghanistan. These fundamentalist guys push sharia law and intolerance towards other religions. Google zakir naik and peacetvmindian mujjahadin etc etc for more information.
I'm in peace and friendly towards liberals or peaceful people in that religion. I have no tolerance towards muslims who praise sharia laws and extremism. I don't go by numbers to generalize my opinion. I know how to filter good from bad lot. Because where i live there is mosque inside the hindu temple and muslims celebrate hindu festivals without worrying about wrath of their allah. I walk among some good muslim people so it's easy for me to find the extremists in their community. I came across such extremists plenty of times. My city had blasts for more than 5 times if i recall correctly. You may feel it as my hysteria or ignorance towards that religion but i know where and to whom i'm pointing my finger.
Yes of course there is extremism in Islam, and yes I am fully aware of the impact of fundamentalist muslim clerics on the young and impressionable Muslim man. I happen to live in the UK, where there is actually a huge problem with the radicalisation of second, third, even fourth generation muslims. Even those from non-Islamic backgrounds.
I have also experienced Christians who are not permitted to have relationships outside of their own close-knit churches. I also know that there is such thing as Christian terrorism, in certain 'factions'. No religion is void of terrorism factions and extremists, even Buddhism has extremists. Don't believe me? There are plenty of Buddhist attrocities in recent history, which can be researched via Google.
What about Christian Terrorism? Here are a few examples:
- St Batholomew's Day Massacre (1572)
- The Sons of Freedom in Canada set fire to homes and blew up infrastructure in Canada.
- The National Liberation Front of Tripura in India is classified by the MIPT as one of the 10 most active terrorist groups in the world, which operates a faction the Nationalist Social Council of Nagaland. This group is accussed of forcibly converting non-Christians to their religion, and its aim is to establish a purely Christian Socialist state in North-East India.
- In Northern Ireland two seperate factions of the church have been murdering each other and blowing each other churches up for years.
- The Iron Guard and other Christian Anti-Semitic movemements in Romania were involved in the Holocaust.
- Various Russian Orthodox groups have involved themselves in various terrorist acts in order to impose their beliefs, including the bombing of a US Embassy.
- The Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda has killed, raped, and pillaged for decades in the name of the lord. Their leader proclaims himself a spokesperon of god. Every LRA fighter wears rosary beads and recite passages from the bible before every battle.
- The KKK were a Christian group, and sacrificed on a burning cross.
- The Army of God attacked doctors and abortion clinics across the United States in the 80s.
- A group known as 'Concerned Christians' were deported from Isreal in the 1980s for plotting to bomb holy sites in Jerusalem.
- Eric Robert Rudolph, the 1996 Summer Olympics bomber, had close links to white supremacy Christian movements and other groups such as pro-life association 'The Lambs Of Christ'.
- In 2010 9 members of the Hutaree militia movemement in Michigan were arrested by the FBI for plotting and for the development and intended use of explosives in a battle against the 'Anti-Christ'.
Does the existance of terrorists or extremists using the name of God and citing the bible make all Christians bad? No. Does the existance of terrorists or extremists using the name of Allah and citing the Koran make all Muslims bad? No.
Is your argument that these extremist groups were not real Christians? Because there is a strong argument that extreme Muslims such as the Nation of Islam or Al Qeada are not really muslims. It cannot be one rule for one religion and one rule for another.
Nothing makes me happier than knowing that, as a non-believer, I am able to look upon these matters impartially. There are groups and individuals worldwide committing crimes and atrocities in the name of a god, whilst believing that they live by a book.
I stick by my original point, my very simple point. All religions are as bad as eachother. Having no religion is the simple choice for me. That doesn't mean that I have to develop a hatred for Christians, or a hatred for Muslims. Neither does becoming a Muslim mean that you have to develop a hatred for Christians or Athiests; and neither does becoming a Christian mean that you have to develop a hatred towards Muslims or Athiests.
Before your first response I stated "I, for one, won't be starting a hate campaign against 22% of the global population." and that statement remains, I still have no reason to start a hate campaign against 22% of the global population. What does your response hope to achieve? Are you suggesting that I should start a hate campaign against 22% of the global population? Because that appears to be the only point in my original post that appears to be inciting your debate.
Does that mean that you have a hatred of muslims? If no, then what is your argument? If yes, then shame on you.
I look at Iran today....a common media-driven depiction of Islamic sponsored animosity....
But what we aren't shown is the Dick Cheney driven Halliburton undermining U.S. anti-terrorism laws to turn profits, which he is far more interested in...
We aren't notified that it was Halliburton itself that sold Iran centrifuge technology to enrich uranium....supplying this "extremist" state with the components to potentially create the bombs we are all being hyped up about....
The Iranian National Oil Company is run by non-Iranians....the British interests themselves hold 40% of that nations "nationalized" oil...
I think there are forces working very hard to keep up false images.....
"They want to kill us".....but we have no problem enriching them...
I think we are being given a crock of garbage.....because this all stinks terribly.....
I think also that if you followed along with the Green Revolution last year and saw the photos and videos of thousands of young people out on the streets, literally risking their lives to protest Ahmadinejad's regime, it makes it much harder to look at Iran and see "evil." Iran is not a monolith. Its people want freedom and democracy just like us, but if we go charging in to "punish" the regime, it's those same people marching in the streets for freedoms like ours that will ultimately suffer the most.
As i said earlier I don't go by numbers to generalize my opinion as it goes in both ways. It is logical fallacy to say that.
Nowhere i said anything in favor or against Christianity. I'm not at all making different rule as per religion.
My point with that first reply in this thread was- 22% of global population is not entirely peaceful. Saying that triggers a logical fallacy - appeal to population(Argumentum_ad_populum). I'm not at all asking you to start hate campaign against 22% population. If you're walking among islamics then by far you know what to tolerate and discard from that religion and how to maintain peace. I walk among some of the gem people in that religion so why would i ask you to start hate campaign ?
As i said in my previous post - my argument is against fundamentalist in every religion and not towards the peaceful people. And if that makes me hatemonger then YES shame on me.
I SAID: "Get over yourselves. I, for one, won't be starting a hate campaign against 22% of the global population."
YOU SAID: "LOL. Have to disagree here. Just because they're large in number doesn't discount them with label as tolerant, peacefull."
So what precisely is your point? You seem to have confused even yourself. Read the OP and tell me what your argument is. I state that I will not be starting a hate campaign against 22% of the global population. What precisely is your issue with that statement? You think that I should have a hatred towards them?
It seems to me like you are either disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, or you have a problem with Muslims. Which is it?
I also live in a Muslim country, and by and large I have found them peaceable, so no problem with Muslims in general, however the Quran does call for all Muslims to work towards bringing ALL non Muslims into submission by conversion or force, and that is something which will cause a problem sooner or later.
Any Muslim must obey this command, and (IMO) at such a time as sufficient Muslims are in a non Muslim country, they WILL attempt to take control of that place.
The real division is between western ideology and Islamic principals, and the two do not mix well.
Actually I feel very safe living (as a Christian) in my Muslim country, albeit I live in Penang, which is actually run by the Chinese, who tend to be either following one of their ancestral religions (weakly) or are Christians, but I would feel less safe in the west, for that is ultimately where the conflict will happen.
So 21% of the world populace are peaceful Muslims, and probably 1% are fundamental and prepared to kill for Allah....
But which ones are they?
Whether it's admitted or not, the west is in a religious war against Islam, they just don't admit it.
OK the current actions are oil and economically based, but it is still a showdown between Islam and Western ideology, and it will unfortunately eventually come to a head.
It's NOT a fight between Christianity and Islam, but between one set of ideals and another. The western leaders may call themselves Christian, and be identified by the Islamists as Christian, but they are not Christian except in name and by birth.
And God has no grandchildren, each person must come to Him by faith alone, there is no birthright entry.
I replied to that already in previous post. Here it is again -
My point with that first reply in this thread was- 22% of global population(Islam) is not entirely peaceful. Saying that whole 22% as peaceful people triggers a logical fallacy - appeal to population(Argumentum_ad_populum). I'm not at all asking you to start hate campaign against 22% population. If you're walking among islamics then by far you know what to tolerate and discard from that religion and how to maintain peace. I walk among some of the gem people in that religion so why would i ask you to start hate campaign ?
I hope you got my point.
So you didn't even checked my previous post ?
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