I have several Pastor friends. I have had several pastors in the last 30 years. I have come to realize that the expectations we place on them professionally and personally are unfair and unrealistic and I have seen it discourage and wound many a pastor and his family. I am suggesting I guess that Pastors and their families not be forced into a mold that we have created with expectations that we don't hold ourselves to. I would love to hear your thoughts. But I ask that we all speak with respect if we disagree or something rubs us wrong.
If the job is too tough for the pastor then he is doing it for the self satsfaction or imagined 'glory' - not as the servant of his people there to fix everything from mild depression to a broken window.
The role of the pastor is to be a leader; not a dictator, or the Messiah.
I think that he should act as the mediator over open discussion concerning issues of the faith.
This requires too many skills for one man to possess.
I guess this is why there are deacons.
And the voice of the entire congregation must be heard or proper balance is lost.
Just an opinion.
A good suggestion; is it practically possible to do that is to be seen?
It would be practical as far as doing the most good within the church.
However, doing so would seem to the pastor as relinquishing his position in the church as the man/woman in control.
To him /her this would seem to put their employment in jeopardy.
And it probably would at least within the denominational organizations.
What do you think is the role of a pastor privately and professionally
Get themselves educated to reality!
Balance is needed.
Personally, I think the major role and responsibility of Pastors is to Spiritually lead the flock, preaching the Word to the lost.
And while he should be available and prepared to help people in other ways, especially if he receives a salary, the congregation should not expect him to do ALL the work and be everything to everyone, because, first of all, he is human just like the congregation, and secondly, (ha) he is human just like the rest of the congregation! meaning that NO ONE can be trusted to be depended on for everything; that gives the Pastor an unnecessary burden as well as unnecessary authority leading to egotism.
On the other hand, there are some Pastors who think they should get paid to just hold services and not even be available to the people. If they had to hold a regular job, they'd realize how hard the average person has to work to make the same, or less, money than they get!
Actually, I miss the days when a Pastor was the Spiritual leader but who didn't HAVE to depend on a salary. I guess I don't understand why men cannot hold a regular job and still preach in the churches. It has become like a business these days, what with Pastors asking for or demanding a salary....
Pastors should most definitely be held to a higher standard... they must practice what they preach.
You are a pastor . pl do well.why you are advising &waiting.
I live in a large city (4 million) and know a few pastors quite well, and have 3 friends who are minister.
They are all active at grass roots level and do a terrific job of helping the homeless and underprivileged.
Not one of them believes in their religion though. Not even one.
well thats why they can help homeless and underprivileged..if they believed you are sinner ,you are punished theme would have call the shots...
Friends of mine have become 'Christians' of the born-again variety, and some of the views they now hold are literal and extreme. Recently I attended a wedding in their church, and I was afraid that the sermon would be the same heavy duty hell and damnation rhetoric that I'd come to expect. In fact the minister seemed mild, moderate, and positively likeable. Now, reading this comment makes me wonder if he might just be a nice, normal guy, who happens to be a religious minister for a living!
I believe that is quite common. Not a bad life being a minister.
I hope you jest.
So you think a minister's role is simply to help people with physical living and make a living for himself at the same time?
As I have said, I know several ministers, visit their homes and socialize with them, and apart from the other useless bible bashers, yes, they concentrate on making life better for battlers.
And you too? You think that's what a Pastor is supposed to do....make a living for himself?
I would hope that a full time minister ( Church, hospitals, visitations) he/she would get some compensation.
I've often wondered about this. Those men of the cloth I have met do really good works, and seem so incredibly intelligent, which then leads me to wonder how such an intelligent person can believe in such a religion.
Maybe the Church is one of the only institutions that gives people the opportunity of carrying out such good works effectively.
This makes a lot of sense. There are plenty of 'good' people about who maybe don't have a ready-made vehicle for spreading the love. Perhaps they join the church to get their humanity out there?
The ones I have known had to fight tooth and nail with the church in order to do so. The churches are not charities you know. Oh wait......
...they are supposed to be.
I agree. Many a minister/ministry might have started out well and was/is easily corrupted by fame, social acceptance, money and 'out doing the other guy'. But being a minister runs deeper -as Earnest said- at point A they might have believed in that particular doctrine, but a minute of clear thinking and a view of Point B, dismisses the doctrine. Hence the problem. Plus, people, the congregation, put a lot of weight on the pastors shoulder. I have even had married women with families make heavy moves on me, a pastors son turn on his father because of the doctrine and even also deadbeat dads step up and be men. But every week, thousands look to the pastor for all guidance, all knowledge, all ability -either to make their position easier or heighten their expectation. When those Great Expectations are not met, all hell breaks loose.
Nice to see you Mark. You are in good form.
I asked that question of my mate father John. He studied himself out the other end of his beliefs 35 years ago!
Father John can rebuild your car on the side of the road, mind your kids tell you what professor hawking meant or fix a meal in a jiffy. He is one very intelligent and broadly read dude!
He told me he finds the church to be a good vehicle for helping others, which is why he joined the church in the first place as a young man. He raises heaps of money through the church.
His own church leaders are terrified of him. I happen to know he called one of them on hiding paedophilia in the church and named names.
There are other secular organisations he could have joined, but he believed in a god when he signed on.
Father John is one of my heroes, with one of the best minds I know.
I thank dog I know him as a friend!
I agree with the gentleman or woman who said here that Ministers should be held to a stricter standard, as should decons, elders, teachers of the word. But I think sometimes we expect the pastor to be perfect. They are human, and sometimes they have moods, sometimes they get discouraged because people all have different Ideas as to what he should be doing in his Pastoral duties, and even in his private life (I am not talking about immorality, just everyday humanity). Pleasing everyone is impossible. People come to the pastor full of despair and anxiety because they have made poor choices and their life has fallen apart and they expect the pastor to clean up the mess and the wreckage they have left. If the pastor speaks the truth in love and shows the person that they need to make some changes in their life, own up to their own mistakes and sin, the person goes away in a huff because the pastor did not clean up his mess, but made him take resposibilty. Parents take their kids to pastors and youth pastors and ask them to do something with their wayward kids. People need to take some responsibilty for their actions and their families. Not that the church and the leadership can't be of some assistance, and certainly prayer support, but I don't believe the pastor is supposed to fix us. Wise counsel and prayer is good. But doing only people can change themselves, the people who have problems and seek counsel with the pastor need to take action. The pastor cannot fix them, only lead them to Christ, who is their ultimate source of help in times of trouble.
Another thing I see is that Pastors and their families live in a fishbowl. I had a pastor friend who made a very modest salary from our small church of 150 people. People were always making snide remarks if he used trash bags with handles on them instead of the cheap generic ones. One person saw the pastor at the grocery store and noticed he was buying an expensive ice cream. The person said "Oh, I see you're buying the most expensive ice cream. Wish my salary allowed me to do that." The tone was to imply that the pastor was being frivolous or spending or making too much money. The truth of the matter was, he was having special company for dinner and wanted the good stuff. But even if he wanted it just because, so what. People think that because someone is a pastor, they should take a vow of poverty or live on bare bones, bagain basement stuff. I am not talking about all those rich ministers who have fancy cars, houses, helicopters, planes etc. I am talking about modest income pastors. People think because the pastor is paid by the offerings that are given, that he is accountable for everything they spend their money on. One woman said at a congregational business meeting that she would like to know what's in their refrigerator. Fortunately, most the these people are gone and that dear pastor and his wife are now in a loving, supporting church where they are respected.
One year our pastor bought a new family van. They had been driving a very old model and it kept breaking down. They saved for years to buy the new van. They started saving long before they came to our church. When the got a new van, several people made remarks that a pastor must be getting too much money if he can afford a new car.
His wife always bought her clothes at thrift stores. When she came to church with a cute new outfit on and someone said something to her, I would always hear her make sure to tell them she bought it at goodwill lest they think she bought it new. This pastor and his wife have never owned a house and were deeply hurt by a few judgmental busybodies in the congregation.
Sometimes, if a pastor has a new idea, brings it to the board and the congregation, and they already have their mind made up that things should be done the old way, they squash him like a bug. They start talking about getting rid of him because he is too modern or upsetting the apple cart. I don't think pastors should make all the decisions, I don't think they should have their hands in every pot in the church, as others need to be able to serve too. And frankly, the pastor does not have the time to oversee every program and bible study and project in the church. But the congregation should allow him to be a leader, a servant leader. There are some egotistical, powerhungry pastors out there for sure, but I would say most of them are just doing what called them to do, shepherd the flock.
In closing, I want to reiterate in agreement with a few of you, that Pastors and church leaders should be sure to be living a high standard life and be an example. But we should also not pick them to death and judge them for the small stuff. I think they should live and pastor responsibly with compassion and preach the Bible accurately. But I also think that people need to look at them as people too, and let them be normal. They should not be expected to walk on water or meet every expectation people put on them. After all, not everyone is right.
What do you think is the role of a pastor privately and professionally
The role of a pastor is to present the teachings of Jesus, not of Paul. Jesus is the master; so whatever he mentioned in to be presented with the reasons he gave. The pastor should not dramatize and present his own thinking as if it is the thinking of Jesus; that would be very unfair of him with Jesus.
That should be the role of a pastor privately and professionally.
Just read the pastoral epistles, 1&2 Tim & Titus, is Gods word not the best judge, come on people turn to Gods word and by the way maybe a lot of us need to take out the plank in our own eyes first, blessings and regards, Pastor Sam
Very Easy Answer. To clear all confusion about christian roles and identity we must start with a notebook and a pen read from Acts-Revelations..You will get your answer. If you are looking for someone else's opinion besides the one above you will get the answer for that also..Choose-
It is not a question I've ever pondered. Interesting question. I suppose it would be to try to lead people to read the scriptures and come to their own understanding of them, and to set an example by their actions of the Love of Christ.
Not sure their families should be held to any standard other than the kids being obviously well raised. The spouse didn't sign up for any job, so I'm not sure a person should hold them to a standard they don't feel is fair for anyone else.
It's simple. He is the shepherd of his flock, just as Jesus said He was the good shepherd.
The whole answer was summed up by Jesus Christ in 4 verses:
25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
He is to serve and feed his flock which God gives him with the word of God. And to help them in any way he can toward the will of God and their salvation.
If they are overburdened then the deacons (seemingly from the circumstances at least) should be doing more to help.
Jesus set the example for everything, just as He was the good shepherd the pastors are to shepherd the sheep He gives them. And Jesus had disciples that did things to help Him.
Christ was showing us that the leader needs helpers to tend to a large group, and to help teach and minister to the people.
One of the ministers I know of gets just under 100k a year including all perks.
That's about 6 thousand pounds in real money isn't it?
Not quite! The Australian dollar is above parity with the USD and around 64 pence UK.
True Earnest, the Australian Dollar is Pegged to the Us dollar in free float at + - 1%, and both curriencies are still strong enough.
the key phrase however is "for now"...
We are going to see 1.15 soon, mark my words!
The Bishop of my church is a very kind and sober minded person. He is great in the eyes of God because he relays the Lords message and guids the church in meekness and humility. Every member of the congregation is admonished to hold to the same standard as the bishop.
The best part is that he is not motivated by money, he doesn't get paid to be a bishop, it's all volentary as is every other duty in the church. And that's the way it should be.
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