How can we help our pastors serving better in God's calling?

1. 70

   Van Lal Hmangaihposted 13 years ago

   I used to hear some people complaining about their pastors in terms of shepherding their flocks. How can we help our pastors developing their calling and ministry to be more fruitful ?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Remind them that they're not God, nor kings, and that even they need to be open to listening to constructive criticism (if it's Biblical info).

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Have change their career choice. It will work wonders for everyone else around them.

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         h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Wow. You really contributed to this thread. Talk about selfish and moral.
         
         As far as how to help pastors and others who lead congregations, pray for them and remember they are also human. Most congregations consider a pastor to be available 24/7 and burn them out and quickly.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            And you talking about me, while you add your response to the thread, is different?
            
            There was nothing moral or selfish in my answer. It would be nice if you could see or tell the difference.
            
            I answered the question, if you don't like the answer too bad.

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               h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               
                 Wise up - there is a distinct difference. You commented on the thread purely to put down the OP. Why don't you jump in with smart aleck comments on the parenting threads - oh wait - you have no kids thus no parenting experience to contribute. Likewise you have no religion but you can't muster the selfcontrol to allow others to have the discussion. Not suprised you fail to see the selfishness in your action.

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                  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Wise up? You might consider looking up the word "Wise?".
                  You are a walking example of blind faith. Gotta love. I responded to the thread to give a comment. It wasn't to put DOWN anything, but you're inability to see beyond your faith made you comment on my response, when the WISER choice was to respond to the thread itself and not comment on me. But, no you couldn't do that. WOW, what a surprise.
                  Actually, commenting on parenting kids isn't part of this topic. Why don't you go start a thread about parenting, then see what I have to say on the topic.
                  And, I'm not surprised by this statement too, and you have the nerve to say that I have an ego problem, yet the wiser decision on your part was to say nothing to me. Which, you fail to see. No selfishness on my part and I can voice whatever I want whenever I want.
                  
                  Since I didn't start this conversation(between you and me), I didn't ask for you to butt into my life. So, see your way out of it. Good bye.

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                     h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     You claim now that I have "butted into your life"? Funny how when you comment on a thread you call it a contribution, but when I comment you feel it is an intrusion on "your life"? Maybe you should get out in the real world sometime - put all your knowledge to the test.
                     My objectivity noticed your smart aleck comment. You say I lack wisdom because I commented on your comment yet you displayed a major lack of wisdom when you chose to mock the thread in the first place. Of course you are too flippin "smart" to see your own action clearly. You perpetually fail to see yourself objectively.
                     Looks like you can feebly excuse your poor choice by blaming my faith rather than acknowledge your massive and unhealthy ego. I am not suprised in the least.
                     Good bye

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                        Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes, you had NO REASON to even address me. What part do you NOT understand.

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                           h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           
                           
                           You clearly have a reality problem if you believe my forum participation pertaining to your comment is butting into your life! Unless your forum participation is your entire life
                           You had no "reason" to address this thread, but you did anyway. By participating you opened your comment to scrutiny. Stop looking so whiney. And I would also suggest you get a life in the real world.

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                              Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              You simply do not know your place, which is tied to your religious belief no doubt. My life isn't any of your business and I wasn't talking to you to begin with. If you were actually here in person and butted into a conversation which I was having with someone who IS NOT YOU, then I would tell you to mind your own business. What part do you NOT understand? Geez.
                              I did have a reason and I posted a comment. Which apparently, you have a problem with. Then again, you should have taken the higher road, like your religion teaches you and left me alone, but NO you couldn't do that.
                              It wasn't open to scrutiny, it was a simple statement, which didn't need your input, then again, your blind faith compelled you to get involved.
                              I'm not whining. I'm trying to point out to you, how you shouldn't get involved, because there isn't a need for it. But, again, you failed to realize that. Damn woman.
                              I live in the SAME world you do, but apparently you don't approve. Again too bad.

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                                 h.a.borcichposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 
                                 
                                 You have judged my objectivity, faith, and reasoning. You have claimed moral superiority and whined. Just admit we have equal rights to comment on threads already. Oh, and apply your words to yourself for a change What are the odds you will let this go and get over it? I doubt you will muster the self control needed :)Enough of your madness!

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                                    Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Unbelievable.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I have another suggestion, one to add to my other posts.
      
      We can, and should, say thank you to our Pastors when they do serve and lead us correctly.  Encouraging them, letting them know we Love them with the Love of God and appreciate them are ways to boost their strength without boosting their human egos.  As ladyfromtheqc said, we are to help them as well, for they're still human.

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      mountainedge731posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Expressing appreciation and saying thank you are both good ways to let Pastors, Ministers, or Priests know that they are supported. 
           However, I  think that praying for our ministers is essential, and a way to share  the weight of their profession.  As well, if, as happens in most churches, there is disagreement about what the leader of a congregation is doing,  prayer is one way to find out what God wants for the church.

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         Van Lal Hmangaihposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Mountainedge731, here you point out one of the most basic and important thing that we can simply do for the pastors that is to pray for them. I find it that would be very important. May be we should deepen our prayer commitment for our pastors. Since, they minister the word of God to us, they need always our prayer support .. Now, we already have
         1.  importance of listening,
         2. courage to correct and tell their mistakes if their is something wrong with them,
         3.servant hood,
         4. appreciation and respect, 
         5. power abuse,
         6.following Christ example,
         
         from Pharmacist:
         1) Pray for them...a lot!
         
         2) Encourage them...a lot!
         
         3) Actually be there and listen
         
         4) Put into practice what they say (assuming, of course, it is Biblical)
         
         5) NEVER speak of them in a negative way to others.  If you have a problem or question...go to them directly.
         I love to each one of your contribution! good post friends

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      DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Pastors have a very difficult job. Most are confined by who pulls the purse strings...If a pastor is teaching something that is "not right", look at the voting board for your church, they are the ones who keep the pastor with a job. If they approve, then he/she is teaching according to thier beliefs. Most times a pastor who is approached privately by appointment will openly discuss your personal concerns. While I will agree that there are many pastors who are just in "it" for the "money". There are others who are doing thier best to uphold what they feel is the correct teachings of Christ, but as you can see through these forums, there are many who do not agree and there will always be someone who thinks they know more or know the "true right" way. And they may if fact do know more or the right way, but how that knowledge is handled and told to others can sometimes lead to problems. Rudeness will kill your creditabily even though you may be correct in your views.  Pastors are to be guides of the church, are they perfect? Of course not. But if you are reading your bible correctly and studying as you should you will know what is right, even if the pastor makes a mistake in the interpretation (as you see it) and you can overlook it...If it becomes a consistant teaching that you don't agree with...you might want to find a different pastor or church, if a private discussion doesn't calm your concerns. And if you really want to assist your pastor in his ministries...Try not complaining so much and have an open mind and you might actually learn something new or see something in a different light that will make a marked improvement in your life. Just my thoughts.

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         Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I can't help but read into your words that choosing a pastor or church has more to do with what people want to believe as opposed to what their god wants them to believe.

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            DoubleScorpionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yeppers Beez, that is exactly what it is...Almost all churchs "hire" thier Pastor or have one appointed by a governing authority...There are the baptist churches that are run by the pastor himself, but for you to be a legal Tax Exempt Non profit Church, you pretty much have to be a Corporation and that requires at a Minimum of a President, Secretary and a Treasurer and in most cases a Board of Directors...So you are completely correct in that what a church believes is more about what the members want to hear over what the Pastor is "called" to teach.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               If you're saying that most churches have turned moreso into businesses than simply churches,  I agree...

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      Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The biggest and best thing you can do, is to actually do what they are teaching you --if what they are teaching is correct (meaning bears good fruit). Else, edify yourself and the pastor is then edified. Pastors are treated like untouchable gods themselves and often full resonance placed on them, by the flock, so the flock has a scapegoat for either failure or lack of fruit themselves...
      
      Good Luck.
      James.
      
      Remember, the shepherd only teaches/edifies you in mind, body- until the full measure of the Spirit comes --bears its first fruit in you-- afterward the shepherd enjoys the glory of that fruit with you.

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      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      We should try that the priests improve their knowledge so that they could serve better.

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2. 70

   Van Lal Hmangaihposted 13 years ago

   Hi Brenda Durham, i appreciate for your immediate response. I think it's true that we should remind them that they are not kings nor God. Do you have any suggestions the way how we would approach them ? What would be the best way to tell them?
   I agree that the pastors need to have open minded. But, some may not open their heart to listen what others talking. In such case,how would we do?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't really know.  All I know is that I just stop listening to them if they don't show any humility!
      
      Maybe your experience is different from mine.  And you may even be a Pastor, I dunno.  But how many Pastors have you ever seen bend a knee to pray or honor Christ in the pulpit or in congregation?   Me, I've not seen one do that in years!  But like I said, maybe your experiences are different.
      
      All I know is that many Pastors forget their first calling---and I think that is to lead souls to Christ.  After that, they're supposed to exort and lead and comfort the congregation, and even that still leads back to the first commission---to equip the saved to lead others toward salvation.   I don't think we need Pastors if their heart isn't first set on evangelism.
      The Bible says "have not many masters"........there are too many men set on being the leader of a specific church group when in fact their calling might be in the evangelical or mission field.  At least I think that's the case in America.   We have so many preachers in regular life and on tv, and almost all of them want their words accepted as gold, when in fact they all, or most, end up preaching some major error as time goes on.

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         Van Lal Hmangaihposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I do appreciate for your contribution. When you mention about humility, i think that may be one of the most important yet ignore or can't  be shown in pastoral ministries. it is good to have this kind of discussion. I am sure your context and my context is absolutely different, however, in terms of evangelism, i believe that the pastors' calling is the same. However, the way we approach may be a bit different.
            According to my understanding about your comment, It seems that listening and humility are very crucial for the pastors.
            How do you see the way pastors exercise power in the Church? Do you have any comments on power issue to help the pastors?

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   Brenda Durhamposted 13 years ago

   P.S.
   I loved the hub of yours I read.

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   Brenda Durhamposted 13 years ago

   Power is needed to keep the services in order, usually.
   So Pastors need to be kept in prayer for that; it's not an easy job for them!  And they need to be shown the proper respect (but only if they've kept themselves respectable!)
   
   And ask yourself where their power comes from??   ...I know Pastors whose sermons are sometimes swayed by the fact that mostly a certain person or group of people pay their salaries,  so they're kinda under the thumb of those people. 
   
   A Pastor's power should come from the Holy Spirit.  He needs his heart fixed on God and his focus on the Bible. 
   
   And I think too many Pastors insert too many jokes and personal stories into their sermons in order to draw people into the church by the fame of their name or  etc. 
   
   Let me tell you, the drawing power of the Holy Ghost is greater than any Pastor's name!   If sinners shy away from hearing the Word, what good will it do to draw them in by some Pastor's name?
   None.
   I know a neighbor who, when we moved to this house, came by and invited us to the church he attends.    He raved about the PASTOR, saying he guaranteed we'd never seen nor heard anyone like him.   I actually had, years before, visited that church and the Pastor had, after first preaching good stuff, then gone off onto a totally inappropriate tangent.   But I said well, I might try it again, maybe I had misunderstood him the first time.  We went.  He preached an awesome message at first!  Then, again, off he went onto a totally inappropriate tangent!  Needless to say, I lost interest in that church!
   That church member was in love with the Pastor, basically.  What I  mean is,  he basically was worshipping the Pastor, not the Holy Spirit!
   That's the difference between the powers that emanate from church pulpits!   It's either of God or it's of man's charisma!
   A Pastor should make VERY SURE that his power comes from God, not just claim it without really searching his own heart.
   
   That being said, I think qualified Pastors have the right to monitor what else comes from their pulpit, who they allow to speak from that pulpit, and to refuse leadership positions to people who aren't qualified, etc.   That's one area where a Pastor should "take charge" so-to-speak.
   
   
   All in all, I think you actually said it best when you said Pastors are to "serve".
   
   What did Jesus do?   He spoke the Truths of repentance, salvation, judgment, and Godly living to the disciples.
   He also washed their feet!
   And we're once again back to the humility issue.
   Pastors are servants, not just power-wielders!

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   Brenda Durhamposted 13 years ago

   Another area where a Pastor, I think, could use his "power" in a good way would be to actually concede that church members are also gifted in many areas, including interpretation and discernment,  Even in Bible Study classes, usually the Pastor or his delegated leader ends up pushing their interpretation upon the members, following a pre-set curriculum and "giving" the answers to everyone, and only allowing minimal interaction.  That's not Bible Study, it's just another sermon from the pulpit!

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      Van Lal Hmangaihposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Brenda Durham, i like that you point out  very important issues regarding the power issues. Indeed, many pastors try to impose their power even in terms of bible study and in many case, i think we can learn the importance of mutual interaction and listening the Spirit's movement in the community of faith. .. good contribution!

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   ladytfromtheqcposted 13 years ago

   Pastors, are still human, but have a special calling to be shepherds or overseers of the body of Christ. Our roles as laymen and women is to follow them as they follow Christ--by example. As they have poured love and spiritual nourishment into you, the fruit of the spirit, we are to disciple those who we witness to in our mission fields. We help him by duplicating the works in quantitiy.
   
   Christ wants us to be encouragers and disciples and salt and light in the earth.
   As witnesses, we assist the pastor in reaching the world with the gospel and thus fulfilling the great commission of Matthew 28:19.

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      Van Lal Hmangaihposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I like the way your respect and honor about the calling of a pastor. And in fact, they are also a human being and they will have flaws in many areas, however, as you mention, i believe that as church members or laity, we are also responsible not only to critic but also to be encourage them. 
      Having positive mindset towards the pastor would be more effective rather than being negative in all they do... Ladytfromtheqc ...good discussion.
      
      How about the power issue that we are discussing? How do you think about that?

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         ladytfromtheqcposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I believe that we must serve each other. Power struggles in the body of Christ breed strife and confusion. It is not the will of God. I believe that disciples will submit to leadership and follow instructions.
         
         Leaders and mentors are placed in our lives to process and develop us and take us to a higher place in God.

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   SpanStarposted 13 years ago

   The problem stems from how we follow Jesus.  Not just the pastors but many in the congregation.
   
   Follow Jesus life in the bible you one can clearly see he came here to service but for us that seems to be so very hard for us to do.  We have to set up the cast systems so we can operate by rank and file.  The answers have always been right in front of our face but we either look around it or over it.  We all need to stop thinking we're this and we're that we are servants of God and though the world won't understand that is who followers are.

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      Van Lal Hmangaihposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Span Star, i find that you mention a very important point about coming back to the origin of our calling , learning and following the footstep of our Savior. Being a believer, sometimes, our character and life are so far from the life of Jesus. Often times, we blame our pastors, but actually, we all are the same. We are human and they are also human, but for all of us, servanthood should be our motive in serving the Lord and living for Him.
        How do you think about suffering for the sake of Jesus and Ministry? Do you find it is worthy to suffer being a christian ? Or we should seek and preach prosperous gospel?

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         Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I hope you don't mind if I put my answer to this.  I'm also eager to hear what SpanStar or others say.
         
         ..I've seen so much "prosperity gospel" preaching in America that it ain't even funny.  I imagine that doctrine also extends to the spread of Christianity in other Nations too...which is sad, really.
         
         I'd say 90% of the "prosperity gospel" that's in America is a false one.
         The key is always balance!  We don't have to suffer to the point of starvation or persecution to the point of death, because Christ suffered all that for us!   Yet we are not to take the concept of Blessing to mean we're all supposed to be wealthy.   So many preachers like Joel Osteen and Creflo Dollar and God knows who else, are simply preaching stuff that helps line their own pockets with money!  They tell the congregation that we can all, also, basically, be rich if we follow their basic formula for success. 
         But the richness that God offers us is more of a Spiritual richness, a comfort of mind and soul. 
         There's a verse in the Bible that speaks to this issue.  It says in effect, let me not be too rich nor too poor, because both lead to temptation....I'll have to find the verse.  Or maybe you know it?

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   pharmacistposted 13 years ago

   Great question.
   
   1) Pray for them...a lot!
   
   2) Encourage them...a lot!
   
   3) Actually be there and listen
   
   4) Put into practice what they say (assuming, of course, it is Biblical)
   
   5) NEVER speak of them in a negative way to others.  If you have a problem or question...go to them directly.
   
   Blessings!

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9. 60

   SpanStarposted 13 years ago

   Matthew 6:24
   “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.
   
   Riches and even poverty will mean very little if people realize they are on their way to hell.  Followers are here to bring to good news "People Do Not Need To Go To Hell if they accept God's salvation."  There is plenty of work to do because it doesn't look like the church is winning this war.  People are going to church and being told things they want to heard when the truth is being keep from them- you must change, we must change.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yes.  Faith in Christ requires a change of heart; repentance, a change of heart leading to a change of ways.  The largest proportion of stuff we hear from the pulpits is about money or position or some elusive "power(s)" instead of that change that's needed for salvation.    Cool post, SpanStar.
      
      The verses I was looking for are Proverbs 30: 8 & 9:
      
      "Remove far from me vanity and lies; give me neither poverty nor riches;  feed me with food convenient for me;
      
      Lest I be full, and deny Thee,  and say, 'Who is the Lord?'  or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain."

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         SpanStarposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well Brenda,
         
            You're on target as always and thank you for you for your postive response.

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      Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Span Star, Thanks for sharing that wonderful message. I pray more preachers will rise up and boldly preach the full gospel with the love of God in their heart. Most pastors are preaching only about prosperity and money.

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         SpanStarposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you Woman of Courage, I share your same concern

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            Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You are welcome. God bless you.

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    rocketjsquposted 13 years ago

    I think for us to really determine how we can best help our pastors we need to carefully look at the character of the church.  I don't mean the character of a particular denomination such as Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc. I mean specifically YOUR local church. Every church has a "character" that is reflected in its members.  By looking at the character of your church you will be able to determine where your pastor needs assistance.  Do you have a lot of new members or are your pews filled with long term attendees?  Do you have a vibrant celebration in music, or a dull repetition of old hymns?  Is your church a hospital where the spiritually sick can come and be refreshed with loving fellowship or a "high school hallway" atmosphere filled with criticism and judgment?  If you really want to help your pastor in "developing their calling and ministry to be more fruitful" then it's time for the members to stop expecting to be served and start fulfilling their obligation as a servant.  Too many churches are full of members who attend every week expecting to be spiritually refreshed.  While this expectation in and of itself is not a bad thing for new members.  At some point we need to mature in our Christian walk and begin attending church with a spirit of "What can I do to help others...vs... What is the church doing for me?"

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       Van Lal Hmangaihposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Hi rocketjsqu, thank you for your contribution in our discussion, i hope that each one of us will grown in helping our pastors to do their ministry more effective...

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    SirDentposted 13 years ago

    We must get behind our Pastors and support them, emotionally, physically and spiritiually.  A Pastor is the vessel God has chosen to be a servant to a congregation.  The vision that God gives the Poastor, should be the vision of the people.

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       Van Lal Hmangaihposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Hi SirDent, good post! thank your for your positive response and desire to encourage and support the pastors. In fact we are here to aid each other for extending God's kingdom.. God bless

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    Woman Of Courageposted 13 years ago

    Hi Van, Welcome to Hubpages. That's a good question. We must pray for our pastor and give encouragement.

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       Van Lal Hmangaihposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Woman of Courage, thank you so much. Since the job of the pastor is so huge and big, pastors indeed need our prayer support and encouragement in everything they do... thank you for positive post and wish

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          Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          You are very welcome.

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