They are drowning this site. The whole my god is better than your god thing has worn me out. The same bigots claiming to be true christians whilst making ignorant remarks about other religions.
Then there's the real lunatics who behave as if they're suffering from a kind of biblical aspergers where they take every word from that book literally (at the same time justifying war and murder)and quote it ad infinitum.
And the self denialists who run back to the bible to save them from answering intelligent and thought provoking questions.
I really don't understand these people. Everyday they will make covert and overt judgements (including veiled racism) on people who might have a different view or are simply a non believer. This of course means that despite their own self indugled proclaimations they are not really very christian at all.
Maybe it's the siege mentality these so called christians adopt when their faith is questioned I don't know but why not just let it be? The word Aetheist sets off a panic amongst these people and I just have this vision of neurotic christians (like in a Monty Python sketch) searching for tablets of stone because somebody asked them a question that contained too many syllables.
Life is much more simple. You believe in your god that's fine but having a faith doesn't give you licence to a) assume those who do not share our faith come from another planet and will go to a hell b)spend your entire lives evangelising.
Just get on with your life and let others get on with theirs.
I applaud true christians for wanting to believe in something and who oppose war, cruelty and pain, but I have little time for those calling themselves christians (or muslims etc etc) who can justify war and murder in the name of religion and peddle hatred with extreme iterpretations of their religion.
What happens when two groups of christians clash? Who's side do you take? The ones with guns or the ones with faith?
And please could you maybe stop flooding every bloody topic with sanctimonious piety.
Try biting your lip or even better say to yourself 'I am a christian and I forgive those people who choose not to share my beliefs'. Yeah right, you know that you'd have to add more on to that last quote don't you?
Go on then intepret this post as a sign that you're being victimised and persecuted and satan must be on my shoulder.....
Or surprise us all and just accept that we're not all the same.
My first and last sermon.
I agree completely. Though I feel very strongly about my non-religion, even I get a little tired of dealing with religious intolerance, and we're certainly not going to have a discussion dealing with enough issues in the little forums to convince anyone, though I think conversion is not impossible.
I try to be tolerant, but tolerate is all I can do. The second page of the Bible contradicts the first, so it's tiring to hear people tell others how to live their lives from a book that is so clearly problematic.
I am praying that your toe is better soon.
I think you have made a few good points yet I think the problem has been over simplified. Wanting to pose a question (How often do you pray) to a specific group of people (christians) should not have to be reduced to a war (prove your sky fairy exists). When every thread can be hijacked into a war ( and we know who is guilty) without a consequence, the wars will not stop.
OK pastor, where do I send donations to? I want to join your church of reason and sanity. Great first and last sermon.
I was wary of the religious forums, as get heated, but I've been contributing last few days, and it's been rather entertaining
Golly geee.........! I could easily insert another noun where you typed in 'christian'.
Well now. There is somethings about all of us that are the same. How we came to be varies slightly in detail, but the physiology is identical. Where we are going, regardless of belief, when we die. One thing one must always remember, the fact that we are here, as we are, and that to all material evidence, we are alone (Chance and probability notwithstanding) then we are a strange creature in a strange universe. Do you grok this?
hey earnest H you've manged to say what in one sentence what I've tried to say in about 14 paragrpahs!!
How dare you! :-)
How's life in Oz?
Actually, Earnest, religion is that which one holds to as in belief system, which has an effect over your daily life. Agnosticism and atheism are considered religions by the U.S. Supreme Court using the above definition.
Here's a clue... don't view, read them, or respond to them and they will sink to the bottom. Also don't whine to everyone here with posts like this.
Oh the irony that beautiful ubiquitous irony......
They know how you feel, but they have the Truth, so they will persist because they love you. They don't care how you feel or what you believe. You are like an ignorant child that needs their patience and condescension. Eventually you will see the light, and look back at this moment and go, "Wow, I was so foolish to not believe in magic beings."
That's why it never stops.
I am very sure that the HubPages staff did not intend for these forums to become a bible study group - but that's what it looks like - I too am sick of seeing so many religion posts - I wish they would just eliminate that topic from the forums or at least remove it from the main page - people who want to discuss religion could just go directly to the religion topic. I have been staying away from forums more and more because I don't want to discuss religion and they're filling up the forums with it. Why?
I don't think the attention seeking religious minority that flood every post can do without the publicity.
I'm tired of it all too.
We've discussed this a lot in the forums and so I guess the staff knows how we feel - people often say they just ignore those threads - but it is getting harder to ignore. I don't know whether staff can even do anything about it - but I sure didn't sign on to HubPages to participate in Bible study! at least we've vented about it!
I agree it's just one group of wingnuts caught in a never ending battle with another group of wingnuts resulting in absolutely nothing more than a waste of time and space on the internet.
Today I was reading through the forums and I reached the point where I just finally couldn't take it anymore, so I'm sure I offended a whole lot of people by what I said but frankly, I could really care less. They don't seem to mind being the least bit offensive themselves.
I don't mind a good debate, but that's not what's going on. At least not what I'm seeing. I'm seeing a lot of blah blah blah from people on both sides of the fence who really don't want to debate at all. They just want to stomp around spewing the same old garbage from thread to thread.
All I can think is that they have no real life and nothing better to do with their time, because if they did, they'd be doing it, not wasting hours of time endlessly repeating the same old garbage. They must just copy and paste from one forum to another. How sad. I feel really sorry for all of them.
Religion is never boring! i usaually read them with popcorns by my side!
Well, they COULD eliminate them in the same way they eliminate insults. Ban those who post such threads.
I have come to agree that it would be no loss and would improve the site.
Yup that's the liberal lefties wanting to put an end to free speech! Oh yeah free speech is fine as long as the views are all liberal, and that of course means eliminating God from the discussion oh but Allah, that's ok!
And where in this entire topic is anyone praising Allah?
Are you aware of your own parody on this?
you started it again.
I think a topic that a good number of people want to discuss should be fine. What is annoying are people who ram their ideas down your throat when you are obviously gagging already. And that is coming from all sides. Don't push it. Disagree, discuss but man, don't rub it on my face. If you make sense, people will see it. I am just saying religion is not the issue here. It's people skills.
no one on this thread here put forward any political, let alone leftist ideas or proclaimed to be leftist - no one said anything about curtailing free speech - what you just said is exactly the kind of unfair and biased statement that comes out of the Bible thumper threads - aren't there enough forums in the world for you people without having to take over a writer's site?
true true... It is a turn off. I meet these nice people and once you give them one smidgen of interest they start doing a mission on you. Lemme tell you I bother to say what I really think. Then also say, everybody has the right to think what they think.
HP already curtails free speech. If I say what I honestly think about certain people, I get banned - and if they expressed what they think of me, so would they. HP does that so the forums don't degenerate into constant bickering.
Yet that is exactly what we have with the religious and political threads.
I'd be happy enough if I could simply not see specific forums and specific people. Even the newsreaders of two decades ago had killfiles; why can't we have that today?
If I never had to see another of your posts, I would be much happier - and I'm sure you feel the same way about mine.
But if they can't do that, then I'd be fine with excising any contentious subjects. There are plenty of other places for those who want to argue - we do not need them here.
Can't you block certain users? Block me! At the very least you need not respond to any of my posts and you certainly don't have to even view any I initiate.
Some people enjoy the bickersing (I'd rather call it debating)so what's wrong with that? What is the forum without discourse? If you object don't bother coming here and just enjoy talking to yourself. The point is we (as individuals) have the power.
I'm all for free speech and I've voiced my opinion on censorship, which I absolutely do not agree with, however, there comes a time when the "same old, same old" becomes just that, "the same old, same old" and nothing more productive is being said.
The forums have already degenerate into constant bickering, religious bickering.
The believers and non-believers who seem to overwhelm and takeover every discussion, including those not even religious, are not listening to each other or anyone else. And why would they, they each already know what the other is going to say because they've been saying the same thing back and forth to each other, over and over forever. They really don't want to listen to anyone but themselves, so they will continue to go on about the same old stuff forever.
I'd like to say "put a sock in it" and a whole lot more, but I'd probably get banned too, but when I think about it, it's not even worth the effort to do so.
Go to church, read the bible, or don't... nobody else cares but themselves which is exactly why they come here to spout off in the first place, because nobody else in the real world gives a damn one way or the other what they believe.
Couldn't they just not show them in the general forum list? So when you click on forums it just doesn't show the religious ones, and if you want them, you have to click on the category? Or something like that? Or am I babbling? Probably. Hey ho!
here's an interesting article regarding the recent Pew survey about what 3412 Americans know about religions of the world. it's worth a read. those that knew the most about religion were Atheists, agnostics, Jews and Mormons.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/us/28 … f=homepage
EDIT: a link to a sample quiz of some of the questions. don't read the article first..
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010 … -quiz.html
That is a very, very interesting survey. Seems Hub Pages is a microcosm of society .
So on this thin line between teaching and preaching...
if a teacher uses the Bible as an example of literature, would that be fiction... or non-fiction ????
The Atheists Agnostics add hardly anything positive except derision and ridicule.
this is what always happens when we post to a thread like this one - soon the religious zealots come to try to shame us!
now THIS thread is getting boring!
Only because they wanted to deride and ridicule religion; they feel satisfaction in doing that
I have always tried to treat the beliefs of others with respect, whether I believe as they do or not. Unfortunately, I have not always seen this here. I have seen disrespect, intolerance, name calling and all kinds of rudeness just because people can't agree on what to believe and it makes me sick when I read it.
Adults acting like grade school bullies... there is a god... no there isn't... well my god is better than your god... no he's not... blah blah blah... It's disgraceful.
Perhaps you're a bit too sensitive?
My reason for starting this topic was because I am tired of the incessant piety of those religious zealots who are small in number but large in posts. Take Paarsurrey and his last two responses to this topic; that's just so typical. No acceptance that some people who choose not to believe may have valid reasons for this, followed by his casual derision.
Ultmately the topic was intended as a gauge to see if anyone agreed with my view and it seems that some do and some don't which is fine by me.
I can guarantee that the minority of religious zealots on here will continue to post about how wonderful their god is and why we should all praise the lord etc whereas others like me will tire of their rants and walk away.
I haven't condemed their religion per say but I do condemn their self righteousness. There are so called 'christians' who have posted on here who are racist, right wing and pro war so to me they're not christians at all.
I've always believed that true christians have no need to shove their faith in the faces of those who doubt. If you care about others irrespective of wealth, colour, culture, religion, status and you would rather help than hinder people in less fortunate circumstances then in my opinion you're more of a christian than the hypocrites that pray every sunday whilst exploiting/condemning people, ignoring the homeless and blaming people for their own misfortune. Such actions of course directly or indirectly contribute to the ever increasing divide between rich and poor.
If there is a christian god I doubt he favours some christians over others yet there are a small number of people who clearly think he does.
I don't agree - for the most part the anti's are tolerant and well behaved until driven to react by the constant snot nosed drivelling of the same dim cant. The intolerant racist, gay bashing, moralising crew are all christian, and now we have seen nasty little lies included and an agenda to provoke anyone who does not agree with their childish views and then trying to get them banned for 'personal attack' - disgraceful indeed.
Isn't that the truth. Pray to God? Well my question always is: "So who's god are we praying to?" Makes a difference. But holy hub! I so agree on the tiresomeness of it all.
this came up before - I would be in favour of a minimum hubs before posting rule to cut out the random drive-by evangelists and other spammers
I pretty much ignore the religious threads for the exat reason. It is starting to drift in to other forums though, which is incredibly annoying.
Religion, to me, is like one's sex life, best kept to themselves. Sometimes they give me more information than I care to know. Religion is a personal thing, so trying to shove one's beliefs onto another is what turns people off. Leave me be and let me believe in my own way. I agree with your statements.
What was it Dirty Harry said in the movie; “Opinions are like assholes...everyone has to have one !” Ain’t that the truth.
Why not come and join me on the Dark Side, as a lifelong Pagan whose ancestors worshiped the Sun I never once heard of any distant Pagan group claim that their Sun was better than ours, nor did it cause us to go to war over the subject.
Utter class and worth a hearty 'lol'
@ the OP - you said in many words what many of us think in less - but it amounts to the same. Well said.
I've a couple of long standing friends that are devout religionists. I'm a devout mind-my-own-business type. Not once, in all the years I've known them, have they ever made me feel guilty/bad/damned.
Which is how it should be. I admire their dedication to their beliefs, and respect the way they live their lives. In turn, they respect the way that I live mine.
It's quite simple really.
Love the Drop
um, screw this, why is no one going to lyrics hub?
,<note; HubPages moderators when considering banning, please know I did not mean to post like this forgot who I was til half way through, true>
I am a very religious person, all vampires are.
LOL Merlin Fraser! We have been in dire need of a Pagan representative here. I am chuckling about joining you on the Dark Side. I thought the dark side was devil worshipers/satanists.
Besides, if you worship the sun, wouldn't that put you on the Light Side?
"Luke Join Us on the Light Side !!!"
Devil worshipers/Satanists they are all spin offs from the Bible and organised Religion. The church used such excuses to isolate and then attack thos that clung to the old ways and refused to bow down before their one God. Of course, Hollywood played a big part in their misconception of Pagans as well !
Have you noticed that we don't get too many direct challenges to our beliefs,after all we predate any and all relgions, we hold the Earth sacred and accept that we are but one species of animal life on the planet with no dominion over any other.
Hands up all other religious groups who feel the same....
Do you mean that the pagans/druids are the believers in one God? If yes; please mention the attributes of such God.
Druids were Pagans, again I am talking the ancient kind not the new age variety.
They had many Gods depending on where in the World they were. They were persecuted and in many case brutally put to death for their beliefs and the fact that they would submit to the one God of the Christians.
Did the ancient pagans had a link in between them on some aspects of their beliefs or unbeliefs? I menas some basic beliefs for which you identify them as pagans from the unpagan.
The word Pagan literally means Rural Dweller and was first used after the Emperor Constantine declared Christianity to be the official religion throughout the entire Roman Empire.
Roman control was mostly centred within the main towns and cities, therefore all who dwelt within those towns and cities were expected to convert immediately to the new religion by order of the Emperor.
Away from that control and outside the city walls, life continued much as it had always done, it was no direct threat to the Roman occupying forces and was more or less ignored. Such people were called Pagans by the Romans.
This was a general term and widely used throughout the whole Roman Empire to any who did not convert but it is impossible to state what any individual Pagan group was or was not worshipping.
What I can say with a high degree of certainty is that they were not worshipping the God of the Old Testament in any way shape or form.
Only because they want to deride and ridicule religion; they feel satisfaction in doing that. I don't know as to why they do it. Everyone should submit their views with reason and arguments which is in fact the language of the human beings to understand one another.
I forgot, I don't want to get involved in any more vomiting contests.....oops.
Hmmmmmm so many people say that - as they continue to post over and over and over, I guess what they mean is that 'they' don't do that kind of thing - whilst they are doing it ??
I've always scanned the forums to see what is going on but only of late have I been participating. Still in only a very small way and mostly because of the OP's point. He's absolutely right. I don't much care for the religious forums but the buggers are everywhere. If you're on the Political forum and you post a leftish view, suddenly your a godless atheist and you are going to hell for sure if you do not totally support traditional marriage in the Gender/relationship forum. There's no escape for those who would like to discuss issues without religion being involved.
One other thing I can't resist mentioning. I notice Paarsurrey sticks his nose in here. I tried to be nice to the spammer but he got to me. I'm an easy going kinda guy but his spamming knows no shame and no end. So I researched his cult and wrote a Hub about it. Well waddya know, I got some not nice messages from his pals. My reply to them and to a couple of others who think this is a forum based site instead of a writers discussion group;
"Pick up your big girl panties and get a life"
Hi friend iantoPF
Religion - a set of beliefs concerning the origin and purpose of the universe.
If the Atheists Skeptics Agnositics and others like of them don't think that the Universe and life have got a purpose and meaning, it is their mistake and they should improve themselves. Creation and evolution speak aloud that there is a purpose of life and specially of the human life.
Don't you agree with me?
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
If you are trying to say that human being have been created to do what they wanted to on this universe and then die and there will be no question answers from him/her, then you are definitely wrong. You think that the world has been created out of itself oh come on science could not agree with it even. How can you say that religions have nothing to do with human beings. There is definitely a God and He will judge human beings on the day of ressurection. Please correct your belief and we are not fighting to say that christianity is the best religion or Islam is actually we are trying to say that there are religions there is a God and there will be a judgment day.
Athiest just try to make the world and life simple by saying there is no God and then they can do any crime or sin because there will be no punishment.
Then by your own logic, we should see atheists running around committing all kinds of heinous acts and making the headlines every day. Yet, there is nothing of the sort. in fact, reality shows that to be quite the opposite. Can you explain that?
You need god to do good or bad to the rest of species on this planet ? jeez. so narrow thinking. no wonder there are more terrorists in islam than any other religion.
This statement depends on your meaning of a 'terrorist' Most of the world sees the 'christian' US as the instigator, backer and perpetrator of terrorism in Vietnam, South America, Africa, and Iraq to name a few places, all courtesy of right wing christians.
“Atheist just try to make the world and life simple by saying there is no God and then they can do any crime or sin because there will be no punishment.”
I am not an Atheist... but even I take umbrage with this over simplified and sweepingly troublesome and disgustingly generalised statement. Since when did Crime become linked with Atheism ?
Shall we ask the criminals who killed and maimed thousands on 9/11 or on the July attack in London if they were Atheists...? Oh we can’t can we because they dead.... with the word God on their lips !
"whoop whoop" only read the first post before all the **** came in!
about time someone said it!!
bible bashers- please be aware that I am a cristian
Be careful at this time - mention tart in anything and it will get reported as a personal attack !! not from Caseworker I hasten to add, and feel free to call me anything you like with impunity
Hi China Man
I try to keep my posts as impersonal as possible - although I know that some folk here on hub pages do take having their viewpoints/arguments/beliefs challenged to be a personal attack on themselves.
Having said that I do have to, metaphorically, bite my tongue sometimes because some of the religious types we have here on hub pages seem to view themselves as being actual prophets - even when they 're doing no more than quoting numbers enclosed in parentheses. I'm even beginning to think that - because these people are sat at home in front of their computers beyond the physical reach of the people that they insult - they 're all getting a god complex .
Do you think these people ever get out into the real world? I don't.
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