This is a comment I posted in one of my hubs and I was wondering what other's opinions on where our rights come from, are.
If you believe our rights are basic human rights then you believe that all humans have the same rights, end of story.
If you believe our rights are god given rights you believe you have the right to decide who get's which rights. You probably base this on the belief that you follow the one true god and he/she/it gave you the right to deny the existence of any other god in addition to having the right to deny followers of said god, any rights you choose.
You also have the right to deny other followers of your god the same rights your god gave to all his/her/it's followers except for the ones you have a disagreement with.
I'll take the option that uses the constitutional arguement to guarantee my rights, your rights, and the rights of every person either one of us dislikes.
Until the majority of people finally accept that "all men are created equal" means just that, this type of hateful, behavior will not only tolerated but encouraged.
The founding of America was predicated on the idea that rights are privileges granted from God. As such, no one's "rights" can be a claim against God (except that which God has promised). Rather, they are concessions that we must grant to each other in our relationship with our fellow man. Each man has a right to worship God, to earn a living, to take a spouse, to acquire and possess property, to name a few.
To say that someone has a right to such things does not mean that they have the power to acquire them (as someone mentioned previously). It just means that his fellow human beings are not to constrain or hinder him from his attempt to possess such things.
So you bellieve that our rights are given to us by your god. This also indicates that you feel that as followers of this provider of our rights you are best qualified to dispense them and enforce them, correct?
That's some fancy mental gymnastics for you to infer that from what I said.
The rights are God-granted and inalienable. That's not just something Jefferson and the fellas pulled out of a hat. Those rights are granted to us by God. They are not given to us by man. They might be recognized by men and secured by men, but they are not granted by them.
I don't know about that. If our rights are given to us by your god, common sense dictates that the believers if this god would be best equipped to decide who these rights apply to and how. With no possible way to ask god, we are forced to rely on his followers for the correct interpretation of his words.
I would also like to point out that some of these rights only became rights once America was created. God and his religion existed prior to the founding of our country, the rights did not. How could they be god given rights when they were secured for us by men from the church of god?
"god given rights" sounds a bit daft, considering the literal believers of the bible meant women, slaves, races, homosexuals had to fight for rights.
I think rights are how people expect to be treated
If all men are created equal, then the 1% of the world that have all the money, including celebrities and sport stars, politicians,etc
should have to share the $ and help the poor.
That's not a pro religion statement, that's a pro socialist staement. Some people earn the money and some go on tv in $10,000 suits and convince poor elderly grandmothers to send a donation rather than enjoy an extra can of dogfood that week.
But back to your statement. If the half million churches out there cant help the poor, why should the mega star preachers do it? I'll tell you why, they are too busy committing every sin they preach against in god's name.
I guess we all lose w/ that one... except the rich!!
I'm not ready to admit defeat. The rich don't pull this type of crap, only the morally superior do. Give me your last 10 dollars and I will pray for you is an example of of Stupidity vs Self proclaimed Godliness. The stupid will always donate their last dollar if the currently most popular paid spokesman for god asks for it.
I think it would be much better instead of describing as rights; we focus on our duties to our fellow human beings and towards the Creator.
The creator of my rights is the Constution this country was founded on and you are correct that we need to focus on protecting and maintaining my creator. The creation of my creator is what allows you to worship your false creator freely and publicly. Religions only aquired the freedoms they enjoy when my creator granted them this right. If you disagree with that logic you can go to the hell you invented for all those who have enough intelligence to say...bull hockey.
never really considered that before. Maybe someone that has an interest in history will know. Guess it arose when people started to believe they didn't want to be treated like crap (eg slaves, women etc), and fought for what they considered a right. Gradually, a change in thinking might come about, but not in all cultures
God given rights ???
I don't remember reading about any in scripture.
To breath while we can?
To either love or hate?
To experience our senses that we were given for as long as they remain with us?
Privileges ?? Now that's another matter
Privledges is an interesting label. Which one's were you referencing?
Almost everything are Privileges.
It is a privilege to go to work
To travel fron city to another or across the country or the globe.
A privilege to lay in your back yard and sunbath, if you are privileged enough to have one.
When we really think about "RIGHTS" in their true light?
They are not there. A mist contains more truth than what many of us assume to be our RIGHTS !
If they can be taken away are they real?
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights. This is what this belief in god given rights is based on. If you believe in a supreme being and call he/she/it your creator, our rights are granted by god.
Now if we state that we don't believe in a god, our creator could refer to the creators of our country and the Constitution this line comes from. I am an American citizen and this reality was created by Thomas Jefferson and the documents that created America.
The only rights anyone of us have are those that we are willing to defend, to the death if necessary. All else is pie in the sky; wishful thinking and nice sounding words.
I believe the rights you are refering to are the rights we manage to retain. I don't care who you are, or where you were born, I believe there are certian basic rights we all share. Any right that one person claims is only a right if all humans share this right. If not it's persecution and this is a right no one has according to our Constitution.
Do you feel we have the right to persecute fellow human beings and deny them any of the rights you enjoy? Our Constitution doesn't feel this way, most Christians do. I agree that the only rights we retain are the right we defend. Don;t you feel all American's share these rights?
It's hard for me to think of a right that all people have. A starving person, in a land with no food, as no right to food (otherwise they wouldn't be starving). A slave has no right to freedom or even life itself (his owner has those rights to use as they see fit). An infant has the right to food or drink only as their parent sees fit to give it to them.
These things should be inalienable rights to all people, but unfortunately aren't. While we might wish they were (I certainly do!) the fact is that if they were actually rights of all people, no one would be hungry, or a slave, or whatever else we might wish they weren't. Even the high sounding "rights" of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are there only in the pursuit of happiness. Liberty and even life has been taken from American citizens by the American government throughout it's history through jail and execution.
There are also variable rights between people. Bill Gates has the right to purchase a jet plane - I don't (don't have the money to do it with, never will). Pres. Obama has the right to address congress whenever he wishes - I don't. I have the right to come home to a beautiful, loving wife - you may or may not, and if you do, it still isn't MY wife.
But you're right - I refer to the rights we manage to retain. I submit, there are no others. If we do not retain the right of liberty, then we don't have that right. If we give up or lose ANY right then we don't have it. A simplistic view perhaps, but one that seems correct to me. I might wish it otherwise, but in the real world that's the way it is. That's why I say that if you won't or can't defend your rights the words are just pie in the sky - they are meaningless in the cold, cruel world out there.
I can agree with your reference to starving people based on the belief that noi one has the right to something that doesn't exist. Everyone has the right to secure their own food if it is available. I don't think that simply because food is plentiful, the lazy people out there have a right to expect to be fed by the workers. I do believe that an infant has the right to food even if his parents deny him this right.
Bill Gate s and you have the right to buy an airplane. He just has the means to do so.
These things are inalienable rights of all people. The problem comes in when those who are incapable of standing up for their own rights are ignored by those who claim to be defenders of our rights. The number of right forfieted is directly related to the indifference of the majority.
I agree that you have the right to come home to your chosen mate. I simply feel everyone has the basic human right live with and marry their sweetheart and or soul mate. If I receive a tax break for being in love and married, everyone deserves the chance to cash that check themselves.I don't presume to have the right to tell another person who they can fall in love with as none had the right to choose for me.
We have allowed our government in the last 10 years to make a mockery out of our liberties. Americans are fighting for the chance to give up another liberty simply because they were told it was for their own good. People refuse to even think for themselves anymore but don't have a bit of problem thinking for everyone else. Thats one right everyone will fight to retain.
Stump Parrish you said "Do you feel we have the right to persecute fellow human beings and deny them any of the rights you enjoy? Our Constitution doesn't feel this way, most Christians do."
How do you know what most Christians believe about this, Are you a mind reader?
I am a christian, and I do not know any Christian that believes what you say they do here
ok, we'll start with abortion. Christians feel they have the right to tell any woman what she has to do with her body. Most Christians claim they want to reduce teen pregnancies which will reduce abortions. If it's true that they want to reduce abortions, why do the fight to deny students the information they need to reduce pregnancies and life threatening diseases? Why do they think they have the right to deny my child this information based on their beliefs? What gives them the right to play God with my childs life? Just as a side note, I am against abortion when used simply as a form of birth control. There are less expensive ways to not have kids. However, my beliefs don't mean crap as it's not my body that's involved. I believe the woman has the right to choose as they are the one closest to the situation.
Another easy one is homosexuals. Christians are fighting to keep deny them the same rights they enjoy. If a Christian can marry the person the love, so can a homosexual. Christians also have no problem denying other christians their rights. Once a Christian announces they are gay, they lose all the special rights other Christians claim for themselves. They even loose the right to call themselves Christians don't they?
I'll stop with Texas. Christians down there feel they have the right to rewrite history to fit their preferred version. They have the right to deny my child the truth about America. They have the right and the arrogance to believe what they have to say is more important than the words and history of Thomas Jefferson.
I live in the Bible Belt just under the buckle. Hanging out with the nuts like I do you get a good idea of what they are saying and doing. Ckeck out the Stroller column in my local paper and see for your self. It's goupstate.com select opinion and then the Stroller. The paper is the Spartanburg Herald Journal from SC
Alot of this knowledge about what Christians think and feel comes from years of hanging out it the R & P forum on myspace. Myspace kind of went to crap when a bunch of christian fundamentalists got together and started gettting people's profiles deleated. If you disagreed with them they blocked you and got rid of you. Disagreeing with a Christian cost a lot of people a lot of work.
like I have said many times there are a lot of people that call themselves Christians that are not, you can tell by their tongues, I live in virginia, close to the 77 and 81 intersection, that is Bible belt, I have seen Churches that according to their words I could tell I did not want to go back, I want a church that is going to try to live according to the Word,
Spent some time as a kid close to Fort Union as a kid, nice area with lots of history. You're not far from those lunatics who call themselves the Army of God right? I dont disgree that there are good christians and churches out there. The problem is that every nut job out there who also says Amen has the ability to decide the rights I have as a American. Now most Christians claim to be pro-life and yet they have no desire to condemn or speak out against the murders of abortion doctors. How do pro-life people condone taking a life? It's simple, it benefits their battle against abortion and these people are following god's instructions to kill.
people impose on other people's "rights" all the time
Where do rights come from?
Rights are tied to moral good choices.
Not all choices are rights.
Ok but do you feel you have the right to control the choices of another human being and if so, why and where did you get this right from?
Lets assume that only the morally superior have the right to decide...Who gets to choose those who becomes the official judges of morality and why? Would it be their knowledge of law or religion you would consider to be their best qualification for judging morality and why?
By all accounts, no one(singular) person should have a right to control the choices of another human being. It is a violation of their right to life and right to choose/right of choice.
You want morality? I wrote a hub on it. Morality is tied to actions. Moral good actions are rights.
This is why government exists- to judge wrong actions for which are not rights. Thus, crimes against humanity. Jury by peers.
And, NO I don't always agree with Government or the Justice system, either- there are far too many laws, some completely unenforceable by any stretch of the imagination.
Again, morality is tied to actions. If your actions harm others then you are to be held accountable, not only by yourself, but by others.
That is just how it is presently and will be for a while. However, it will ultimately change in the foreseeable future.
Rights are given at birth.
The individual has the right to live his/her life.
The human being has the right to freedom and the fruits of his/her own labor.
The man/woman has the right to try and live a happy and prosperous life.
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Of course rights can be taken away!
If they can be taken away then are they not privileges in disguise?
Who would grant the priveleges I described?
It is very important that an individual stand up and defend his/her rights.
You may lose the Rights but not in any legal manner.
Who would grant these privileges??
God ! Happenstance, natural laws of physics,
As far as RIGHTS are concerned, I don't think that any of the three mentioned above or any other power that be guarantees anyone any rights.
Rights is a term for something that comes with no guarantees. Rights seem to exist only under certain conditions.
At least... that is the way that it seems to me??
In order to exercise your born rights you have to be willing to fight and even die to defend them.
I think that my grand Pa summed it up fairly simply..
He told me that I had the right to do anything that I was big enough (or smart enough) to get away with.
That might open up another question! What does morality or doing the RIGHT thing have to do with having RIGHTS!
Just an off the top of my head question. Not a statement.
Do not harm another.
Respect others property.
Be fair in all your endorsed contracts.
Morality is a way an individual chooses to live his/her life.
A Right is given through the act of being born.
I just think that most people confuse the two.
Rights and privilages.
They are almost the same thing. And have everything is common.
One just feels better than the other when we say it.
I disagree, I think most people underdstand the difference, they just assume that all the rights and priviledges are theirs to dispense based on their personal beliefs. They lack the ability to understand that personal beliefs are just that. They prefer to assume that if you have differing beliefs you have made it personal.
I dont know but I don't think anyone has the right to go thru their life and not be offended. That I dont part take in an activity doesn't mean I don't have the right to if I choose to. As long as my exercise of my perceived right doesn't cause you physical harm I have the right to an action or belief. If I kiss a woman and another woman want to kiss her, I don't have the right to deny her if the first woman wants also one. I have the right to divorce her if I am so inclined but her kissing another did not cause me any pain or hardship. My rights end where her lips begin.
I guess that we could say that we have the right to follow our natural instincts. As long as they do not infringe upon another persons to act upon theirs.
It is easy for anyone to perceive that someone else exercising their rights are infringing theirs.
This is the difficulty... There will always be someone thinking that someone else is crossing the line.
Someone will always be moving the line.
It is always best just to mind our own business as much as possible.
Cause no one really knows where the line really is.
That is why we need a Common Law Court system to settle these sort of disputes.
Everyones line is different. That also means that my line is not neccessarily the same as your line. As long as I don't infringe on your rights What most people fail to grasp is as soon as they make a choice of any kind for themselves, they have given everyone else the right to choose for themselves. I might not agree with your decision but I have to support and defend your right to make it. Standing by and not helping someone who can't help themselves retain a right you enjoy is just as bad as not defending yourself. They both have the potential of your equal losing a right simply because someone else didn't want them to have it. Of course it could just be that you also look down your nose at the people in question and allow it out of spite, lol.
Good point and I will take it a bit further. How does the actions of two consenting adults in the privacy of their home affect you or me? Some people are so busy minding everone else's business they dont have time to mind their own. Here is a prime example of what i an talking about. We recently had an uproar here in Spartanburg SC over the fact that a gym started offering pole dancing workouts. The problem with this according to some fine upstanding puritans was that these classes were being offered in the vacinity of a day care center. According to these _ _ _ _ _ _ _'s (fill in the balnks) this type of immoral behavior this close to a day care center would cause the down fall of our community. Believe me I wish was making this crap up. It seems that if a toddlers comes with in 500 yards of an accepted work out routine they are forced into a life of sin. Some actually called for the gym to close to protect the youth of our country. Keep in mind this isn't a strip club or a bar. Every person working out is fully clothed. Biggest problem is these people claimed to be christians. They didn't however claim to be true christians, simply christians. It's not my job as an atheist to decide if a christian is a true christian or not. If they put on the uniform they have the job title. When christian figure out a way to exclude the untrue christian votes from those of the true christians in elections, I will buy into the true christian line of horse squeeze. If you dont like being lumped together with this type of mental and moral neanderthal, show me you are different. This was directed at the masses and not just you, lol.
Stump Parrish ask ...
How does the actions of two consenting adults in the privacy of their home affect you or me?
- - - -
Answer .. It doesn't regardless of their gender!
Stump Parish wrote ...Some people are so busy minding everyone Else's business they don't have time to mind their own.
- - - -
I said that too! lol
A gym started offering pole dancing workouts. .....this type of immoral behavior .... would cause the down fall of our community.
- - - -
Yes I remember when all of that was being said about Elvis the Pelvis and Rock and Roll.
I'm surprised that they don't protest exercises entirely .. all of that sweating in tight T-shirts and push ups, and jumping Jacks and body parts jiggling and stuff.
Profanity I say Profanity. NOT.
Somebody always gets jealous when they see others having fun and they can't do that any longer. Ha or never could?
The business of these people involved being Christians or not , should have been kept in the family.
Jesus didn't go around trying to stop what the Romans were doing or trying to close their bath houses.
Jesus was more concerned with hypocrisy.
My rights may end where her lips begin but your rights begin with ejaculation. As soon as some one has an orgasm you have the right to determine what happens to that sperm, right?
hey bro, I agree, you have to earn the rights or privileges, thats what I told the kids, I knew that growing up
Of course you can lose those rights in a legal manner. How many people in the US have lost their liberty (are in jail)? Didn't Texas or somewhere just execute someone (they lost the right to life itself!)?
It may be that Jarami is right - these things are privileges, not rights. It may just be a matter of semantics, but an actual right would seem to be yours no matter what. An "inalienable" right in reality, not just in fancy words.
You are assuming that there is no Liberty in a penitentiary?
I do not agree with the death penalty, it is nothing more then a State sanctioned murder. It is also a crime against humanity, no matter what the Admiralty court says.
taking away right of life or freedom indicates they committed a huge infringement of the rights of others eg murder etc. Unfortunately, with the death penalty, someone has to do it
Absolutely, a human can consent to surrendering their Rights. That is probably the least known fact among society.
It is also the major cause of problems that exist in the world today.
As A Australian I will not comment on the American Bill of Rights as I do not know enough about it.
In Australia our right's go back to British Commom law.
I wil only make 1 comment on the Death Penelty . if your 100% sure of guilt, exceruting a person stop's them doing the same crime in 20 years time. In Australia life usually means about 20 years, less for good behaviour.
Sad to say but we have had some crims. do a 2nd murder after they get parole,after the first murder,so why feed the bastard's simple answer 12 foot drop 6ft rope, evionmentally friendly and will not harm the ozone layer.
I belive Murder is a crime most foul, and to me must not be tolerated even for a secomd!!!!!
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Could you elaborate with some examples please.
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