There is a lot of talk about allowing gay couples to get married, and, of course we all know the whole because god created man and woman BS. But, here is a what if question for you.
Let's say that the tables were turned, and there was a law that was passed that banned all marriages all together. And, suddenly your marriage to your husband or wife was suddenly yanked out from under you. Would you protest like the Gay community does about getting your right to marry back? Or, will you just go along with the law, and quietly live not married to someone you love.
But, it's not just being married that would taken from you. All your rights to household taxes would be taken away, and your right to divorce for an equal split of your equity, or children would be stripped from you as if you were a single person, and just dating. Like the gay community, you would no longer have all the rights you enjoy now under marriage.
I know this idea would make a lot of divorce lawyers unhappy, because they would no longer have a job! No marriages mens no divorces. And, that would just be funny to some of us.
Anyways, what do you think. Would you be ok with a ban on all marriages forever? I'm guessing a majority will say no. But, please just answer the question. And, keep all the religious BS out it. We hear enough about that already.
It's one thing to have the choice to get married, it is another not to be able to because of ignorance. What makes it worse is if I was already married, to have it erased over night, abolished like it never existed, I'd be pissed as s#it if that happened all because someone in the government decided to do so... Uh uh!
Most guys I know would be tickled poopless if that happened!
That's a very good philosophical question. One that I'm sure deserves worthy consideration. However, to be honest, I'm kind of conflicted about your proposed scenario. On the one hand, I think all people whether they be gay, straight, bisexual or whatever should have a right to marry whoever they choose. The only reason the law prevents people from marrying the same sex is because there's still too many ignorant people out there that refuse to accept that gay people are still regular people like everyone else.
On the other hand, after reading a few remarks on forums in the past, I don't really hold marriage up to the same standards I used to. Don't get me wrong, if I met a girl that I loved and she wanted to get married, then I would marry her. However, if she never did want to marry me and we just eloped, then I'd be okay with that too. After all, marriage is just a legal decoration saying your going to be with someone. That's all. Nothing more or less. Besides, one can enjoy the benefits and trials of marriage without necessarily being married if you know what I mean. Anyways, I hope that answers your question.
To be honest, I think in about 50 yrs from now, the ban will be lifted because society will have evolved by then. It's just a shame that many of us probably won't be around to see it...
I would just be with the woman I love anyway. As long as I am connected to her physically, emotionally, and spiritually, then that is what really matters.
If all the religious BS could be kept out of it, there wouldn't be any arguments against gay marriage. That's what the entire argument is. That and a distinct lack of cojones on the part of a lot of people to separate church and state the way it is supposed to be in this country.
And there are plenty of instances where two straight people who were different colors or who had different backgrounds or had different financial situations have been told they can't marry... and those folks usually ignore the naysayers and spend their lives together anyway. Which is pretty much what gay people have been doing for decades.
That's funny. Neither the original poster nor you kept the religious argument out of it.
And you both added unnecessary and offensive insults. Plus, you added a red herring by comparing homosexuality to race and financial position and civil rights.
Go figure. Same old argument. Same old insults from leftist-thinking people. Reckon ya think if it's said enough times, people will quit standing up for what's right, huh?
Just like if the "people that are standing up for what is right" keep saying "No, it's wrong because I choose to believe it's wrong and so should you" the rest of the people in the world are just going to stop fighting for it?
Gay marriage will eventually be accepted in all 50 states, probably before my daughter graduates high-school. The younger generation wants it and the older generation is dying off. *shrugs* such is the way of progress
You could be way wrong about all 50 States.
In any event, the younger generation doesn't want it; some have just been manipulated into accepting it without thinking, and others bullied into not questioning it. I know that, because I've heard young kids tell the story of how their opinions got "shut down" by liberal teachers.
No matter how much people try to blur the line between right and wrong, the line is still there, and always will be. There will be a different wind that blows, exposing that line. That's my prediction. There. We've both made our "predictions" now. Who knows if we'll live to see which comes true? The sad part is that children are even being involved in this political battle at all.
I agree. Every time that some idiot says something against gay marriage, I have to explain random bigotry and hate to my children all over again. I really wish the bigots would be a little quieter about their idiotic rants, so that my children would stop being exposed to it.
See how that works Brenda? You get upset because children are being taught one thing, I get upset because they are being taught another. You get upset because people are wanting to do things against your moral code, I get upset when someone else's moral code is being used to run someone else's life... even if its not what that person believes.
Each coin has two sides Brenda.
Actually, no, the moral coins do not.
There is no two-sided moral code.
And there's immorality.
Two separate situations.
Right and wrong aren't fluid concepts.
They're fixed, set.
People have to choose one or the other.
Really? Are you saying I'm immoral Brenda? I didn't say you were, just that we believed differently. Is anyone who doesn't believe the same things you do immoral? Wow.
VEry few things are clearly right or wrong as we all know very well from experience, from such issues as useful, kind and essential little 'white' lies such as telling less able children that they are in some way 'special'.
Morality is an issue because it is just one preson telling another person that some thing or other is right or wrong - when it is not a given universal truth, just a person's opinion.
It's sad as parents we have to deal with stuff like this.
That was actually hyperbole to make a point to Brenda. It was supposed to illustrate how her post sounds to others.
I generally respond to the situation by letting my kids know that people believe differently. I tell them that one group wants to be able to get married to the people that they fall in love with and another group thinks it's wrong.
As they have grown up they have formed their own opinions with one being a gay rights advocate and another being completely and utterly apathetic about the issue.
Im just curious as to why you care If gay people can get married?
Is it for religous reasons?
It's abusive to the rights of human beings.
It attempts to force everyone to legally sanction the unsanctionable.
The act of homosexuality is unGodly, unnatural, unsanitary, unconscienable, degrading to society including the ones personally involved.
It threatens the very existence of mankind.
Okay, I'm willing to accept your opinion as your opinion and give it all the weight that it should carry... but seriously you gotta explain how homosexual sex is any more unsanitary than heterosexual sex. What exactly is it that you think gays do?
Monogamous normal heterosexual sex isn't dirty.
Surely you can see the difference.
You might as well stop hinting that I don't know the facts of life.
Surely you know them also.
I wasn't saying or even hinting that you didn't know the facts of life...
I'm saying that monogamous normal heterosexual sex is no more "dirty" than monogamous normal Gay sex. In fact, lesbian sex has the lowest transmission of STDs that there is.
Not to be blunt Brenda, but there really isn't anything that gays do that most heterosexual couples don't try at least once or twice.
If most do, then that's their business. And their problem. Not to be blunt, but people don't have to actually do something in order to know it's bad or wrong. A little common sense goes a long way toward wisdom.
Brenda, i still don't understand why you feel homosexuality is immoral. You just keep saying it is with no reasoning.
We really weren't talking about bad or wrong there. We were talking about hygiene. Morality aside, I think you may be misinformed about the cleanliness aspect of things.
I doubt it.
I knew the facts of that even before I was a teenager, because I read a lot of books, even aside from the Bible. Plus, just natural common sense.
Whose? their own? Why do you care?
unsanctionable in your opinion.
ungodly to your god. Unnatural... I guess you haven't taken college biology. Unconscionable, and degrading are again your opinions.
This whole argument was probably stated verbatim during the debate over slavery and civil rights.
Seriously, reread it and put it into that context.
It's kind of scary.
What's truly scary is that liberals think it's okay to insult, accuse, and degrade conservatives who take a stand on this issue; manipulate, and otherwise forcibly enact laws that are wrong. But the worst thing is that they use innocent children as tools for their agenda.
Not every religion.
The argument gets old.
I'm just not one of those who becomes immune to seeing right twisted into wrong and wrong disguised as right. So I usually respond.
Out of curiosity, who, besides organized religion, do you believe is against gay marriage?
I have just finished my research paper on the religious right and It's alarming the amount of effort and money they throw at this issue.
Money that could feed people and find kids homes. It makes me sick.
I am can link the stats to my claims with verified databases, I.e college and the L.O.C. If needed.
Right after you calculate the amount of money the Left is throwing at their agenda. Taxpayer money, and even money that no one even has yet! Future entitlements for gay couples, medical insurance for "spouses" and adopted children or surrogate children. All because liberals want to force others to cater to their whims and load the next generation of people down with degradation and debt.
And I can tell you about former gays or "gays" who don't even want gay "marriage" because they know it's wrong. They don't want sanction; they want help for their problem!
I don't think Gays should be in the Christian Church that teaches Gay is wrong (the word of God does, not so all churches anymore) and I know you said you don't want this but I have to say that to say...but I have no problem whatsoever with Gays marrying and having rights legally as a married couple. I think everyone has rights as long as they don't infringe upon mine and try to change the book I go by. If Gays want to write a new book that is fine, many have done that and it is none of my business. My sexual preference should not be forced on Gays as theirs shouldn't on me. I am honest with my feelings and I might wish it was not the way it is but I can read. I do not have to hate to give God's word. It is not my word and I cannot change it to suit anyone. In America it was my understanding that Gays have rights as anyone and if they do they deserve rights equally with straight marriages. This is unfair of the government and I am very surprised. I assume they need all they can get for border patrol and the fight on drugs, do you think?
All marriage is, is an endorsement by the government and the legal ramifications thereof.
If that is true, then why is the church out stomping their fists? If it is all just a legal question, why not just pass a law so that anyone can get married? The politicians are only spitting out the same crap as the church, and not really answering any questions. But, knowing them it could be the only safety issue they have left to keep the public's interest off other issues like healthcare and jobs. I think Dave Chappel said it best.
Forget jobs! Forget healthcare! Gays want to get married, and we need to stop that right now. He was of course being sarcastic and using the N word a lot, but he got the point across very well. It's all for shock value, distraction.
I once said why would the gay community want marriage when its history is oppression? Marriage was and in some places still is woman as chattel.
Yet from a romantic prospective a ceremony of love is a beautiful thing between 2 people!
That would totally suck.
Guess I'd have to be content with living in sin with my husban.... oops, with my illicit lover/partner .
You would only be living in sin in the eyes of someone who tells you that you are, which is why certain groups are trying so hard to keep the gov. from allowing gays to marry. They are making it into a sin issue, and bashing everyone over the head with it. And, the gov is too chicken to go up against them, and say, no you are wrong. So that they don't upset a large portion of their protesting voters, and not the views of the general public.
I would not consider a formerly married couple living in sin. There are already millions of formerly married people out there who are still living together. You can only be who you are, and that is all that matters.
That is exactly what it is brimcandy. They don't want to make waves because they will end up losing alot of votes and contributors to their campaigns. Meanwhile some of these politicians are closeted! AND Some of the ones that are straight cheat on their wives and that is ok too! Go figure...
You got the closeted part right. Watch the documentary called "Outrage."
There are some really powerful politicians and former ones who are being called "suspect" by various groups. And, those people are probably the first to come out against basic gay rights. To disguise themselves.
They say that if every gay man in DC, (Closeted or not) were to be fired from their jobs over being gay, the government would come to a screeching halt. There are just thousands of gay men and women involved in the work that keeps the United States running, they just don't want to talk about them. Yet they are quick to attempt to oust the little known gay men who get any form of media publicity, while they shelter people like Larry Craig, and cover all his tracks with lies.
I'm sure that the amount of adultry is just as rampant.
...right on...'bout the screechin' halt....politics?...there is so much f***ng around that happens...power and crap and whatever...i think it's kinda incestuous where ever the politics are ....i'm surprised work gets done...work hard and play hard!
Thanks brimcandy, It sounds familiar, not sure if I already saw it but I will definitely look into.
SomewayOuttaHere, work hard play hard especially in the oval office! LOL. I still love me some Bill Clinton
i cant help but wonder if getting the government out of the marridge buines wouldnt be a good idea. the right of center folks seem willing to give same sex couples the "domestic partnership" option,... why not make it "domestic partnership" across the board?
the "so far to the right that their gona fall off the edge" people are never gona give an inch,... so why even address them.
but i wonder if they would like sudenly having all couples classified as "domestic partners" for tax perposes, and let the church(s) define and grant maridge certificates,... pieces of paper, with no legal wieght.
Of course the fact that the government no longer recognized my husband and I as being together wouldn't make a difference in whether we were together or not, but while some people are allowed to marry I personally believe that all should be able to. I love my husband, and I am thrilled to be married to him. I cringe to think that, had he been a woman, I would not have been legally permitted to marry him and have the same kind of outward recognition of our love and devotion for each other.
I personally wouldn't consider it living in sin. You made my point for me, brimancandy. The "sin" is in the eye of the narrow-minded, judgmental, holier-than-thou people who for some inexplicable reason feel it's not only right, but their mission, to deprive others of the rights they so freely enjoy.
It's very difficult for me to imagine being discriminated against in my personal love life that way. It's just sickening, really.
It isn't only about not being able to get married or having your marriage desolved without your consent. Its about not being able to get benefits you deserve to share with your partner like brimcandy stated before. Death benefits, medical benefits, even being able to keep property that you shared and even helped purchase with the person you're with, shared fond memories for years that can easily be taken away when the partner dies by members of the persons family just because you do not have that marriage license.
Domestic partnership is the first thing they came up with to try to shut GLBT up. It just isn't enough and they need to realize it, get off of their high horses and grow a back bone and do something for ALL mankind, like they so love to call everyone. But you already know that there will be those who love making signs and picket everything under the sun, send hate mail and threats.
I think if gay couples want to get marries, that is their right. We all are human.
Briman -- Be careful what you wish for. Most hetero marriages I know of end in divorce in a relatively short period of time, whereas most gay marriages/relationships I know are in it for the long haul. I'm actually jealous, to be honest.
I cannot answer the question - considering the right to marry has never been taken away from a gay couple, seeing as how it's never existed in the first place. However, if the right to marry were taken away from straight people, I think they'd have to learn to live with it - wouldn't they?
As for all the other issues, such as financial benefits, tax benefits, property rights, etc. I feel laws need to accommodate any and all possibilities within relationships - married or not. (although, some would be pretty difficult to accomplish)
ex: Two people purchase a home together (husband & wife, a gay couple, father and son, aunt and nephew, grandmother and grandchild, best friends....) both have their names on the deed and must file shared income taxes. If the arrangement fell apart, the home would have to be sold and monies divided equally.
I mean, honestly. If the issues are financial then why not simply change the financial laws? It would be much simpler and less controversial - which should mean equality would come sooner.
Hell in Oklahoma, a spouse gets more than a married person any way. Its just a piece of paper, if you love someone, build your life with them. Buy your own insurance, have your family, and love one another, to hell with what anyone else thinks.
I wouldn't really care. I got married (in my culture) when I was 15 & couldn't get a marriage certificate because the whole "statutory rape" thing would come up since my husband considered an adult at the time. He was bummed that we couldn't "legally" get married. I could care less. A paper certificate doesn't tell me who I'm with. It's in the heart.
Gay people can get married where I live for like four years now. I believe we were like the third state to do so. Somehow our kids have been spared from being converted gay and we manage to function as a society. God bless the blue states.
And you never did answer my question or whether I was immoral or not. I always thought I was pretty straight laced. I do a ton of charity work, I attend church, I am an attentive parent and loyal wife. Are you saying that because I believe that people who love each other should be married that I am immoral? That strikes me as kinda judgmental.
The subject isn't about people who love each other.
It's about condoning homosexual sex.
It's not about homosexual sex. That is going to happen whether gays have the right to marry or not. It's about them having the right to marry... which (from experience with two marriages) leads me to believe they will be having LESS sex.
But by not answering the question, I assume it means that you do think that I am immoral for simply having an opinion different that you. Once again, that is pretty judgmental.
Not nearly as judgemental (nor rude) as your post about "idiots" who are against gay marriage, your accusation of "random bigotry and hate". All in response to a post of mine. Now who's judging who? And in particular, who's judging falsely?
I know the answer.
But I'm sleepy.
Argument's get really old and older by the minute.
Going back to whether or not gay marriage is wrong or right.
Is it up to man to determine this? God gave man free will and choice and He is the only true judge. Shouldn't we all make our own choices and then answer to the ONE?
For all we know we might be doing something wrong right now by having this discussion.
Let every man make his or her own choice. No government or law should prevent that.
Please don't compare being gay to being criminal.
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