What is this talking about?

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  1. Jerami profile image57
    Jeramiposted 14 years ago

    For the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man acording to his works

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    1. Jerami profile image57
      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What is this talking about?

      Matt. 16:27  and 16:26       
         For the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
      - - - - - - -

      brotheryochanan   wrote ...
             2nd coming yep
             millennial rein yep

      - - - - - - - -
      Woman Of Courage wrote ...
         I believe it is talking about the second coming of Jesus     Christ. He will be seen coming in the clouds with power and great glory

      - - - - - - -   
         
          I have another question.

        When we put these two verses together ?   
      Which is one statement that Jesus spoke;
      Does the meaning of the above verse change?

      Matt. 16:27 and 16:26

      For the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.   Verily I say unto you, ..there be some standing here.., Which Shall Not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
          Another example
          Matthew 26:63  ..... (the high priest standing in front of Jesus says)  : I adjure the (you) by the living GOD, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the son of GOD.

        26:24   " Thou hast said   ..... Hereafter YE  (YOU)  shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven".
         I just do not see any reason for excusing ourselves for changing the meaning of these verses solely because we can.

          I reiterate that Matthew 24 is a PRIVATE conversation with four disciples when Jesus says

         " Verily I say unto    YOU,    THIS generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled."

          If I am going to believe the bible to be true ? 
        I have to believe these words that Jesus said.
        If one of the disciples said anything that I believe to disagree with these clearly spoken words, I would have to re examine my interpretation of what I thought that person to have said, before I automatically disallow Jesus' message or change it in any manner.

        But maybe I'm just crazy?
         
         I apologize if it appears that I snuck up on you,
      (even if that is what I was trying to do).

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      1. Davidsonofjesie profile image59
        Davidsonofjesieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        peter and a few of the deciples were there when they saw Jesus standing there with Moses and Elijah and saw a vision of His coming with all glory

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        1. Jerami profile image57
          Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          The question being asked is when did/will  these prophesy spoken by Jesus be fulfilled?

             If Jesus said these things ?
             Can he be trusted to have spoken the truth?

            Matt. 16:28   There be (IS)  some standing here, which shall not taste of death till they see the son of man coming in his kingdom  (Mark 9:1)  "... come with power"

            Matthew 27:64   clearly says  “THAT high priest”  shall see .. "You shall see the son of man sitting on the right hand of power and coming in the clouds of heaven"   
          ARE these verses  speaking of what we think that they are?
          I think that it is clear that Jesus tells us WHEN they are to be fulfilled. 
          So what is it talking about?

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      2. Ms Dee profile image77
        Ms Deeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Hi Jerami!  Let's see if I can follow your line of questioning and offer this response. The "this" in 'this generation' is Mat 24:34 referring back to the preceding verses 32-33 where Jesus talks about the fig tree illustration. And verses 32-34 are part of a section where Jesus is describing the end times - what "that time" refers to in verse 30. From what I've learned, in this context of the end times, those two verses elude to the gathering of Israel, and that gathering is that of 1948 - the birth of the new nation of Israel. This would then lead to the "this" of verse 34 as a reference to that generation in which the gathering of Israel took place. The "all these things" is referring to the topic of this section, the events of the end times. So, the events of the end times will take place during the generation in which the gathering of the new Israel takes place. This is the understanding that has come to make the most sense to me.

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        1. Jerami profile image57
          Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          For a number of  weeks my time and MIND has been kayotic.
          And time on the computer has been sportic.
          So I apologize for any posts that seems as I have ignored.

            Was not my intentions.
          - - -

          And it just seems to me that prophesy has all been mixed together in ways that were not intended, and confusion on all fronts were caused because of it.

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          1. Ms Dee profile image77
            Ms Deeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Good to hear from you. Yes, there is lots of confusion, isn't there. I find it takes a lot of study of the biblical context to make better sense out of a passage of Scripture. Lots of work. So I guess I should be surprised at the lots of confusion because most do not have the time, energy and, should I say, training to thoroughly study the biblical context. It is sad indeed that study of the meaning of Scriptural prophesy is not done with extreme care.

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    2. pennyofheaven profile image84
      pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Coming out of unconsciousness. Revealing to us that which we are. Rewarded accordingly. The more that is revealed the more peace love and true happiness we will experience. What can be more rewarding?

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      1. Jerami profile image57
        Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I can invision that. 
          In and of itself?  sounds great.
          Yet I need to contemplate this a bit, as to how it fits in  with the rest of these prophsy and their timeframes.
         
          It is a great thought.

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    3. Dave Mathews profile image60
      Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this



      Definitely this is in reference to the Second coming of Jesus, referred to as "the son of man" and man's reward for remaining faithful to God.

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      1. Jerami profile image57
        Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I agree, but what do you think about that part that says ...
          "Some of them standing here shall not taste of death til they see this happen?
          And Jesus telling the high priest that HE shall see this happen?

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    4. Dian'swords4u profile image61
      Dian'swords4uposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      This is talking about the second coming of Christ. The Christians will be given their reward at his coming.  The Christians will also be judged at the Great White Throne Judgement.  The sinners or non-believers will not receive anything here because their destination has already been sealed. Simply put, this will be a glorious time for believers and I look forward to this day.  Amen !!!

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      1. Jerami profile image57
        Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I think that the prophesy speaks of many things, events, sperad out through a long period of time that religion has rolled all of these things into a tight little timeframe, that if that was true, no one could tell when one prophesy began and another ended,   

          Seven seal judgments are inflicted and they didn't repent.
          Seven trumpet judgments were inflicted and they still didn't repent.
          Then seven bowl judgments were inflicted and they still didn't repent ....   

           All within a seven year period?

           God is long suffering and patient,  then he hits us with a Gatling gun of these 21 seal, trumpet, and bowl  judgments all within a timeframe such as this.

           I just can not get my thinking wrapped around all of that. Not all at once.

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        1. Dian'swords4u profile image61
          Dian'swords4uposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          sometimes what we read in the bible does not make perfect sense to us.  We could study the bible for years and never completely understand all its meanings.  There is a 5 letter word that we have to use and that is faith.  by faith I have accepted the bible aa the inherant infallible word of God because he gave it to us ade a guide for our lives.  Even he says that we will not understand all the mysteries of the bible until after the second coming.  At that time he will reveal more to us.  I accept it becasue I knpw that God created the wordl and that he contgrols the world and I try not to get all wrapped up in things that I don't understand.  I study and I pray and I listen to scholars teach.  That is all we can do.

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          1. Jerami profile image57
            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I have mixed emotions about expressing my opinions on this issue.
              If you are comfortable in your faith, maybe (?) everyone should just leave this alone.
               It is a good thing  you have it.
              I believe in God and that Jesus is the Messiah and he died on the cross as was foretold in the old Testament.
              I believe that Jesus said everything that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John recorded him as saying.
              I do have reservations concerning those things that Paul is said to have written.
              I am not disputing these things. I just have my doubts which would take too long to explain on this post.
             
              I don't think that God will send me to hell for doubting Paul’s’ authenticity.  I don't think he would send me to hell for doubting the Honesty of the Church.

              As long as I have faith in him, and honor him to the best of my ability, I believe he will say, "Well done my faithful servant"

              There are just too many verses in scripture that indicates that the second coming has already come and gone, exactly as all of the prophesy says. Jesus said that he has come to fulfill all prophesy concerning him.
              Concerning everything that was foretold in Matthew 24, Jesus said that “THAT”  no one knows what  day or what time of day  that it will come, but that generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled.

               My concern is, Why does the church not teach what prophesy actually says.  Why does prophesy have to be interpreted to mean something opposite from what the words seem to be saying.

               When the book of Daniel clearly points out that the prophesy contained within their pages WERE fulfilled during the time of the first four kingdoms upon the earth, starting with Babylon.

              And yet these prophesy are forcast out into our future.
              This causes me to have grave doubts concerning Church doctrines, and practices.

              I have NO doubts concerning God, for He told us that it was going to be this way.
               Many people find God by going to church.
               But that is not where our journey in this life is suposed to end.   
               
               There are many truths written in scripture that the church intentionally is not teaching. 
            And the scholars avoid.
              The scriptures are a mystery because this is the way they are taught.

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            1. Dian'swords4u profile image61
              Dian'swords4uposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              The book of John gives a clear and easy explanation of the gospel of Jesus Christ.  It gives who he is and what he did for us and what you must do in order to be saved.  As far as Paul is concerneced, he was imprisoned most of his ministry.  He wrote the New Testament books from Romans through Hebrews.  These were letters to the churches in these places.  He was able to go to them at one time or another, but would be imprisoned for his teachings.  In these books you find how a Christian life should be and what constitutes how we should live our lives for God.  The professey is in the Old Testament.  The professey was fulfilled in the New Testament.  Paul in his teachings goes back to Old Testament doctrines because we find in the books of law the doctrines of God.  this is the basis for what we believe and who god is and why we should believe in God.  As far as wht churches today are teaching goes, some churches are teaching a "feel good" religion.  They do not teach the whole doctrine of God, because some of it speaks of hell which is a real place and they try to trend more to the morales of today's society.   This is dangerously wrong, becdause we are teaching that God is a God of love and this is true, but they do not teach the flip side of this which is God is a just God and a God of judgement.  I hope this helps

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              1. Jerami profile image57
                Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                How does that old saying go? and I forget who said it.
                "We see through the glass darkly" or something like that??

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                1. Dian'swords4u profile image61
                  Dian'swords4uposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  We certainly do.  Sometimes we are like the ostrich that buries our head in the sand when something bad happens.  Sometimes we just don't want to hear about the bad.  God is a God of love and protection, but God is a just God and will bring Judgement on each and every one of us.  Thanks for your comments.

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                  1. Mark Knowles profile image58
                    Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    What nonsense. I suggest taking your head out of the sand instead of threatening us all with judgment by your Invisible Super Being.

                    No wonder your religion causes so many fights. sad

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                  2. Jerami profile image57
                    Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    have you ever noticed that sometimes when we get confused or hve just too mny issues to hve to consider that we grab our heads with both hands. 
                      Don't know why that came to mid unless tht is our way of doing an ostrich inpression.  LOL.

                      I just know that we can't just dump all of the prophetic messages in a single box and pretend to play bingo.

                      There is a chronoligical order established for each of these to come to fulfillment.  And the key to this is clearly stated in the 9th chapter of Daniel. (At least I am convinced of that).

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                  3. Woman Of Courage profile image61
                    Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    Dian'swords4u, Very well stated on both of your replies.

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    5. profile image0
      Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It means you have to do something with the gifts god has given you. Consider the parable of the ten talents. The Lord gives his servents five, three and one talent, everyone who increased his prophet was deemed a good and faithful servent, the last servent who took his talent and buried it in the ground, was cast into outer darkness and called a wicked, slothful, and unprophetable servent.
      The botom line is that God expects a return from you. We are given this short time in mortality to be tried and tested. You have to do something in order to be let into his presence, help a little lady across the street, help some widow with her chores, give to the poor, mow your neighbors lawn, visit the sick, fast and pray, go to church, and keep the comandments. and that's just the tip of the iceberg, you have to dedicate your life to the service of others, and if you don't think you have to do all of that stuff, then you don't realy believe in Jesus.

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      1. Jerami profile image57
        Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        I could not have said it any better.  I fall short in many areas,
          I think that it is more than the number of things like that which we do, but a state of being that is obtained.

          Then these things are just the fruit of that state of mind.
          Those that can not afford to give financial assistance can still, like you say, mow someone’s yard, or paint a porch but also, just as important, cause a sad heart to smile.

          There are many ways to make someone else’s' day just a little bit brighter.

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        1. profile image0
          Erik S.posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I guess this is just going off what was previously mentioned by Onusonus up there, but I think that we as people over analyze things. The Bible is so old, and has gone through so many translations. Sure it can be confusing. But something definite we get out of it is the way we're supposed to live, and so basically, if nothing else, live that way, and do it for God and your faith in him, and the rest will take care of itself. I'm not trying to void your inquiry of any importance, I'm just saying that it's probably best not to worry about it, lol.

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          1. Jerami profile image57
            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You are right, for most people it is best to not worry about it.

               It just seems to answer a lot of questions in my mind.

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            1. profile image0
              Erik S.posted 13 years agoin reply to this

              I'm concerned, Jerami, that your faith is so easily rattled. In the end, does it matter? Will this earth not fade away? These questions are not the ones you should be asking. Instead ask how you can become closer to God, how you can better please him.

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              1. Jerami profile image57
                Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Thanks for your concern. 
                  But my faith in God couldn't be stronger. 
                It is my faith in religion that I have mixed emotions about.

                  Church is a good thing, It brings many people to God.
                  BUT ;  it would be better if private interpretations of prophetic scripture wasn't incouraged to such an extreem.

                  And this has been the case sense its conception in 326 or before.

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    6. pylos26 profile image69
      pylos26posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Yeahhhh...that's talking about the IRS visit after you've spent the money.

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    7. ceciliabeltran profile image67
      ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      it only means we will evolve according to what was intended for life--eternal.

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      1. Jerami profile image57
        Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        That could also fit quite nicely within the scope of things.

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        1. Beelzedad profile image57
          Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          And yet, all it does is beg the question. smile

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          1. Jerami profile image57
            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            As long as people continue to ignore the answers;  all that is left is begging questions. (Confusion)

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      2. Marcus D Mays profile image59
        Marcus D Maysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Jesus was referring to His brother, the Son of Man not Jesus himself, Christ once taught that, a certain Man has 2 sons He went to the first and told him to go work in His vineyard the son said no but later he went, went to the second and said the same son go work in my vineyard the son said Sir I go but never went.
        Christ said in the book of John that the work YOU have given me is done, He isn't coming this second time as the world is teaching it will be his brother that no one is looking at read Revelation 12 and Revelation 19

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        1. Jerami profile image57
          Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Why exactly do people suppose that the second coming of Christ, and the marrage supper as described in Rev. 19 are the same event?

            When we are loaded down with multitudes of assumptions and interpretations we will misunderstand the simplest of books ..
          Yes,  even a simple story such as Jack and Jill ran up the hill will become lost when we start rewriting the story based upon our imagionation.

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          1. Marcus D Mays profile image59
            Marcus D Maysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The marriage supper of the Lamb is referring to Christ's ruling of the nations after His brother and the angels with Him comes and take back the world. Christ said, in the book of John 19 vs 30, 'It is finish!' The work that He was send here to do, go back to Rev. 19 you read of the rider on the white horse whom eyes were red, and had a name but no one knew cause He never showed to do His work as He was told. And this world is confused because every time they mention other persons role in the scriptures they put Christ in there but there are others that had important roles also and in this it is not referring to Christ's second coming to do away with these system that job belongs to His brother.
            But keep this in mind, do you know that some of the angels are constructing a city in heaven and when this city is finished that after the other angels and the Son of Man (that is not Jesus) come that this city will come down and replace Jerusalem! And this is what Rev 19 is about.

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            1. Jerami profile image57
              Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              I forget where it is written ???  but Jesus that he HAS come to fulfill ALL that is written about him.

                I believe this. And it would stand to reason that all other prophesy which is said to fit within these timelines were fulfilled also.

                Nebeuchadnezzars dream of the statue.

                Daniels visions concerning the FOUR kingdoms which is given dominion over the earth (The Nation of Israel)

                When we truly analize that which is written instead of our interpretations of it, we see that there is a timeline established.

                However!  The four horsemen as described in Rev. four are released upon the earth ;  but nothing is said about recalling them from their mission.
                These things that are said to have been released upon the earth have always been present someplace, ever since.

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              1. Marcus D Mays profile image59
                Marcus D Maysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                I want to show you something concerning the four horsemen go to my hub and read Rider! But look at the picture that I have put on there, this picture I was blessed to capture is of the Rider in Rev. 19, it was told to me in a dream.
                The book of Daniel from chapter 7 to 12 and Revelation 5 to 22 can go hand in hand, the way the events unfolded in the kingdoms back then is going to happen in this time but on a global scale. There is a time line for these events but what we are looking at now is just setting the stage for the Son of Man and this is not (Jesus) but His brother.
                And the mission of the horsemen there again will be to rid this world of the powers that these evil men have control of and to return the kingdoms back over to GOD.
                The lease agreement is nearing it end, if you want to look at it this way!
                In Matthew chapter 5 vs 17 Christ said He come not to destroy the law but to fulfil, in Rev. 19 the Rider comes to make war.
                That is why Jesus said the things that was written about himself is fulfil because He knew that there was more work to be done, and this work you will find is in Rev. and this work is the work of His brother!

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                1. profile image0
                  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  ________________

                  And God showed you this?!

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                  1. Marcus D Mays profile image59
                    Marcus D Maysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    Not only did HE give it to myself but He explained to me who He was and didn't give His name but it wasn't Christ. Can you see the guy on the horse and pay attention to His and the horse sizes!

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      3. Wesman Todd Shaw profile image75
        Wesman Todd Shawposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Most traditional [spiritual] paths were developed in prescientific cultures. Consequently, many of their teachings are expressed in terms of cosmologies or world views which we no longer find relevant. . .The question then naturally arises: Is it possible to incorporate both science and mysticism into a single, coherent world view? . . .Up until the first quarter of the twentieth century science was wedded to a materialist philosophy which was inherently antagonistic to all forms of religious insight. With the advent of quantum physics, however, this materialist philosophy has become scientifically untenable. That is, the evidence of science itself contradicts a purely materialistic account of the universe.

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      4. Freegoldman profile image39
        Freegoldmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
        The Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory. Then he will pay back each person based on what that person has done.

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        1. earnestshub profile image71
          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Then after the cow jumps obver the moon, the dish runs away with the spoon, yes I think I know this one. smile

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    8. Jerami profile image57
      Jeramiposted 14 years ago

      That sounds to me kinda like this is talking about the second coming.? 

        I'll be going to bed ..  worry about this tomorrow.

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    9. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 14 years ago

      2nd coming yep
      millennial rein yep

      and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

      There are two types of works: fleshly works and Godly works.
      In jesus christ, God spends much of our training on getting us to cease from OUR OWN works. The works of religion is included in this too. The spiritual walk of Christ is NOT a man earning salvation and then struggling to keep the laws of God from the OT.
      The SW of Christ is ceasing from our own works, ie, the things we do for our fleshly entertainment, our fleshly lusts, for example, the JW sitting on the curb thinks she has to earn her way into heaven so she sits on a sidewalk and offers watchtower tracts to passersby. This is not a work of God. God would have us go about our regular day and impress us to talk to someone about Him. Another example: When we study the bible we should allow God to reveal his word, NOT google a quick fix of results or lean to our own understanding, but by patience and waiting upon God and taking time to ask God, what does this mean? we then put God into the work.

      God will judge sinners according to their sins of which there will be plenty BUT to the saved people who have asked forgiveness for their sins (sins which God forgets and which Jesus died explicitly for) our sins God will not judge us about. WE, the saved, will be judged (not the judgment of wrath which concerns sins) but we will be, rather, accessed and given a reward according to the Works wrought by us, Those works having God in them (see above).

      This is why there are two judgments. the Great white throne (for sinners, this is Gods judgment of wrath and we all know God has wrath, yikes) and the judgment seat of Christ (for the saved and believing in Gods son, jesus)
      Nice question smile thanks for asking.
      according to the king james bible

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      1. Beelzedad profile image57
        Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        What reward for these works wrought? smile

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    10. Woman Of Courage profile image61
      Woman Of Courageposted 14 years ago

      I believe it is talking about the second coming of Jesus Christ. He will be seen coming in the clouds with power and great glory smile

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    11. profile image0
      brotheryochananposted 13 years ago

      For the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. (the christians who do Gods will do works of a spiritual nature while the non-christians do their own works of a fleshly nature)   Verily I say unto you, ..there be some standing here.., (in this literal spot) Which Shall Not taste of death, (because the millenial kingdom will arrive and some will be transformed from an earthly body to a spiritual one, while standing in that literal spot) till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (There is an example of a priest who would not taste of death until he witnessed the christ, jesus on earth. Simon was his name)
          Another example
          Matthew 26:63  ..... (the high priest standing in front of Jesus says)  : I adjure the (you) by the living GOD, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the son of GOD.
      (this couldnt be answered because it is punishable by death, this was an entrapment saying to get jesus in big big trouble)

        26:24   " Thou hast said   ..... Hereafter YE  (YOU)  shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven".
      (sitting on the right hand of power is an idom for having the authority to use the power. (should be a full stop there for clarity) AND hereafter ye shall (also) see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven.) Jesus is saying that this part of the world is where he will depart and return. (Notice in revelation there is no particular reference to north or south america and that huge falt line all along the western coast, etc.. )

          I reiterate that Matthew 24 is a PRIVATE conversation with four disciples when Jesus says
         " Verily I say unto    YOU,    THIS generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled."

      (generation has many meanings. The jews are Gods people and are a generation in the terms of 'Gods chosen people'. Its a translation thing.)

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      1. Jerami profile image57
        Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        brotheryochanan ,  Please don't take this wrong,  just trying to express myself in the most respectful way that I know how.

           I remember back in sixth grade we used to diagram sentences in English class.
           If anyone doesn't remember diagramming sentences we separated the ...
          subject / the verb / direct object   (if there was a D.O.)

          This was done to break down the sentence to its BASIC meaning.

          Lets apply this system.
          Written on a piece of paper where adverbs and adjectives drawn at 45 degree angles underneath their proper place makes much more sense.
         
        26:64      I /   say        / (unto) you
                  ye /  shall SEE   / son of man
          son of man /   sitting on / right hand o God
          son of man /   coming     / in clouds of heaven

           I don't think that the word Hereafter has any power over  this sentence to change the meaning of the statement.

           And we must remember that Jesus said this to those people that he was speaking in front of.
           
           If you had been there, hearing Jesus speak those words, what would have you thought that he was saying?
        Would he have been speaking to you in a deceitful  fashion?

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    12. CertifiedHandy profile image61
      CertifiedHandyposted 13 years ago

      We now live under the Grace of God. This is a time that sinners are extended salvation to escape the judgement upon His return. When Jesus returns judgement takes place. You will either be rewarded with eternal life or eternal damnation; it's your choice...

      In His Service

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      1. Jerami profile image57
        Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        You can say that I am wrong if you like.  But I think that we have always lived under the grace of God whether we knew it or not.

          We now,  are no more special than anyone that have ever lived.
         
          Got a question.  Is being faithful to a religion the same as being faithful to God?

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        1. Ms Dee profile image77
          Ms Deeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Hi Jerami! I'd rather be faithful to a living being - God - than to a system of beliefs - religion. To me they are not the same.

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          1. Jerami profile image57
            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with you 100%
            But then we have to define who that God is for ourself.
            And we have to have an honest relationship with ourself before we can have an honest relationship with him.

              And I think that is a good thing.

               I really do gotta go now.  (as I posted on another thread
            (2 others))  Later for real.

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            1. Ms Dee profile image77
              Ms Deeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Exactly smile

              replyreport
              1. Jerami profile image57
                Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Us humans tend to make everything more difficult that it should be.  At least I always have. 
                 
                  But I am much older now and don't have the energy I used to have, so,  I try to look for the less strenuous path.

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        2. profile image0
          Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          __________________________________

          You are right. If they would read the old testament they would know that the word grace was used more than in the new testament. It also talks of salvation through forgiveness. It is not a new thing.

          Now for the other thing. Hebrews aka Jews have always believed in reincarnation. Even the English bible supports it.
          Yahshua said John was Elijah. John denied this because unless you are awake to it you don't remember past lives.

          Yahshua identifies John the Baptist as Elijah. 

          "For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come." (Matthew 11:13-14) 

          "And the disciples asked him, saying, 'Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?' But he answered them and said, 'Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things.  But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished.  So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand.'  Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist."  (Matthew 17:10-13)

          By identifying the Baptist as Elijah, Jesus is identifying himself as the Messiah.  Throughout the gospel narrative there are explicit references to the signs that will precede the Messiah.

          "Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord." (Malachi 4:5) 


          Now if only you can receive this.

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          1. earnestshub profile image71
            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Hello Deborah! Although we may not share the same beliefs, we often agree on what was said and how it fits together. This is another one of those times. smile

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            1. profile image0
              Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              Hi Earnest.
              It's amazing that you can see, and the ones that say they are of God, don't see.

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              1. earnestshub profile image71
                earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                My religions studies  were undertaken intensely........
                I do most things intensely. smile

                My bible studies were assisted by a very well equipped theological library which belonged to the person I studied with, and I remember some of it quite well, especially when I see it written in the same way I was taught to understand it's context and how to cross reference scripture to make the connections which are there.

                I find that what you write is the most accurate in that it matches with what I believe to be  a true account of what was meant.

                Of course I disagree with the conclusions drawn by all religions, but let's not worry about that. smile


                Love to your family and self. smile

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                1. profile image0
                  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  _________________

                  Thank you Earnest, love to you and yours too

                  It's OK to me for people to differ, especially with your tact smile

                  I am also intense in my studies

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                  1. earnestshub profile image71
                    earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                    Thank you Deborah! There are those here who would not share your generous assessment! lol

                    I treat as I am treated, and we share some values we both consider primary as well. smile

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      2. profile image52
        Composer2005posted 13 years agoin reply to this

        CertifiedHandyposted 45 hours ago
        When Jesus returns judgement takes place. You will either be rewarded with eternal life or eternal damnation; it's your choice...

        Composer responds: Unfortunately for so called and self acclaimed christians, their story book jesus often preached self-contradicting porky-pies -

        According to Matthew 18:21-22 Universal salvation through universal forgiveness is the go -

        18:22 Jesus said to him, “Not seven times, I tell you, but seventy-seven times!33 (Matthew 18:22) NET story book

        33 tn Or “seventy times seven,” i.e., an unlimited number of times. See L&N 60.74 and 60.77 for the two possible translations of the phrase. (My Bolds)

        replyreport
    13. profile image56
      pakeeza1990posted 13 years ago

      good work always to be regarded so it is his reward ..
      keep it up

      adsence

      replyreport
    14. Jerami profile image57
      Jeramiposted 13 years ago

      Hi Jerami!  Let's see if I can follow your line of questioning and offer this response. The "this" in 'this generation' is Mat 24:34 referring back to the preceding verses 32-33 where Jesus talks about the fig tree illustration. And verses 32-34 are part of a section where Jesus is describing the end times -

      = = = = = =

      This is my take on it.  I imagine myself being one of those that are standing there, listening to him saying these things to ME.  After all, that is the way that these chapters are presented in scripture.  Those people, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John repeating these things that was said to THEM in a private conversation.  (Check  Matthew 24:3 and Mark 13:3.

        If Jesus said these things  to  YOU  2000 years ago, how would YOU have understood his message.
           
         Now,  you  tell your story.  What would you think if people 2000 years later think that Jesus was talking about THEM, instead to YOU.

        If today; Jesus told YOU that this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled, Then You write of this event, and 2000 years later, THEY think that Jesus was talking to them?

        That is how I understand it anyway.

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    15. always gisome dap profile image58
      always gisome dapposted 13 years ago

      i dont do that lol do u

      replyreport
    16. Jerami profile image57
      Jeramiposted 13 years ago

      Is it possible to incorporate both science and mysticism into a single, coherent world view?

      =  --  == =-

        me

        I would think ...  YES.   In fact I think it to be necessary in order to acheive complete understanding.


      ====  ===================

      With the advent of quantum physics, however, this materialist philosophy has become scientifically untenable. That is, the evidence of science itself contradicts a purely materialistic account of the universe.

      =  --  =

      me

        I couldn't agree more.   How many different dimentions are there that they know about now ?  10 ?
        There are four dimensions that no one knows much about.

        So how can we think for a minute that we know everything?
        But because they can not see these other dimentions, many people do not believe they exist.  (It is magic)   NOT

      replyreport
    17. stilljustwonderin profile image59
      stilljustwonderinposted 13 years ago

      Hi Jerami!  We have discussed this many times and I can see where you are coming from.  I have also thought that history tends to repeat itself.  I was wondering where the scripture where Jesus says an evil and adulteress generation seeks after a sign but no sign will be given them except the sign of Jonah?  The sign of Jonah being 3 days in the belly of the whale would refer to Jesus being resurrected after 3 days. 

      Love ya!

      replyreport
      1. Jerami profile image57
        Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

        Good morning.
        You are correct ..  I think history does repeat itself to some extent...
        And this "Repeating" goes on in every individuals life as well.

          CAUSE those who forget the past are forced to relive it.

          But I don't think that everything (Which is written) God said, can be duplicated time and time again.

          Love You too.

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        1. earnestshub profile image71
          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Nice to see you making comments I can understand Jerami. smile

          replyreport
          1. Jerami profile image57
            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you, ...  I think.

              And Gooday to you as well.

              It is hard sometimes to comment and make sense when everyone seems to be right ....  and Sooo  wrong at the same time.

               All too often I do not write what I'mA Thinking I'm writting.

            replyreport
            1. earnestshub profile image71
              earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              It's a broad audience. smile Hard to be understood by everyone I guess.

              replyreport
              1. Jerami profile image57
                Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Just got off the phone to Virginia.

                   Now I'm back for a few more minutes.

                   I do agree with much of what you and Mark say about religion. And disagree with the rest.

                  I also agree with much of that which hard core religionists are saying. And disagree with the rest.

                  If I could take half of what you are saying (which I agree with) and half of the "Religionists" idiology  (which I agree with) and properly combine them and properly express it, ...

                  I think it would be a good thing.

                  There are two sides to every story and the truth usually lies someplace in the middle.

                replyreport
        2. stilljustwonderin profile image59
          stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Exactly.  Jesus said that the only sign for that generation  would be that of Jonah.  He isn't going to do that again, that was sufficient.  So, if that was the only sign for that generation?

          replyreport
          1. Jerami profile image57
            Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Actually (everyone says I'm wrong & maybe I am)  But I think everything described in Matthew 23 and 24 were sighns given to Peter, James, John and Andrew; of things that they were going to experience in their life time.

              For Jesus said , "This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled.  And approx 70 years after this   (96 AD) John received his visions of things that has happened, and of things currently happening and of things to come.   (Rev. 1:19)

               But!  that is just my opinion.

            replyreport
      2. earnestshub profile image71
        earnestshubposted 13 years ago

        The truth is that believing in a myth as "truth" then making it exclusive knowledge only available from one source using any one persons interpretation of it as the only truth is a nonsense whichever way we may like to see it.

        replyreport
        1. Jonathan Janco profile image60
          Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years ago

          But let's take that verse as read for a moment. 'Judged by his works' seems to be the key phrase here with 'works' as the key word. Works as in deeds, how they affect their fellow humans, what they contribute. Thumping the bible and going to church do nothing if what you contribute is dark, judgemental and hateful. If there is a Christ, he would not be fooled by hypocrites.

          replyreport
          1. earnestshub profile image71
            earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Although we know the words attributed to christ were at times sane and even sound advice, for the most part the NT tries to get as far away from the OT gods as it can.
            That still does not change the father son dynamic or excuse the psychotic clap trap in the OT for me.

            Gods son?

            The son of a madman who wiped out the human race because he got angry?
            The whole story is a ridiculous farce.

            replyreport
            1. Jonathan Janco profile image60
              Jonathan Jancoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

              I agree, earnest, I was simply trying to suspend disbelief long enough to point out that even their interpretation of their own fairy book is a perversion of the English language in and of itself. Of course, the NT was not originally written in English so I guess they are off the hook.

              replyreport
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