I am a Christian with a Question....

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LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years ago
I perceive there are many devout Muslims in this community. No doubt you are familiar with Asia Bibi the Pakistani Christian woman who was sentenced to death for blasphemy.

I understand that culture is involved as well as religious beliefs. Of course, I think it is absolutely ridiculous and a travesty. And, I do not believe thast the God you serve would agree with the sentence.....

Here is my question:

You say Muhammed is peaceful, merciful etc.... What would he think of the death sentence for Asia Bibi?
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  jacobkuttytaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know and I agree....
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But as per the teachings of Bible, the criteria to become a good disciple of Jesus is explained in the following verse:
  
  If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
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  fits3x100posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is about dying to self. If I place anything or anyone above God, I can not be a disciple. The greatest battle for any of us is pride. Relying on the flesh in denial of the Spirits urging. "Not my will Father, but Thine be done."
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad,
  
  If you look at that Greek word translated as "hate" in that verse, we find it means "to love less" or to not place in first position. if Jesus wanted us to hate in the sense that we understand hate, then He wouldn't have told us to forgive everyone, to pray for those who hate us, and to preach the gospel.....
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  nicely and truly spoken
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  nomorerackposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  i also agree with this,..
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  Merlin Fraserposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wonder just how long it’s going to take before people wake up and finally work out such things as the death sentence placed on Asia Bibi by a Muslim Court has absolutely nothing to do with religion, Muslim or Christian, it is a power thing. Always has been always will be for just as long as the vast majority are stupid enough to accept and condone it.
  These are Patriarchal societies with Patriarchal courts with a system and set of rules and laws handed down from man to man for centuries. As someone else pointed out these rules have been twisted to suit the power of man over woman and is used as a tool of oppression and fear in the name of religion.
  It works, why on Earth would they change it ?
  
  So it keeps them, their people and their culture in the Stone age but most of them know no different so they continue to accept it and if the occasional public beating, stoning or beheading keeps the populace in line so be it.
  It’s only a few of us who gets upset about it. The media rants about it for a few days nobody over there gives a rats what we think or say.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have probably hit the nail on the head.....it is about power. There are too many contraditions for it to be about pure religion. Those men are probably inscensed that a lowly woman would dare talk about a man in their village not to mention the prophet.....
  
  I think you are right.
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  Daniel Carterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, patriarchal societies are religious societies. Their governments may claim otherwise, but these millennia old superstitions and traditions ARE attached to their religions. I don't think one is without the other, in many cultures. And, religion IS about power. Why do you think they war with each other?
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  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Leslie as a fellow Christian I find it most appauling that any Muslim acting in the name of His or Her God Allah, would either stand behind such a sentence let alone carry it out and Murder someone in the name of their God. "Vengence is mine saith the Lord God." If Allah the God of the Muslims is a loving, peaceful and merciful God, He would not want this to happen to any of his children.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is cultural and it is cruel; nothing to do with the teachings of Quran/Islam/Muhammad. Those who are responsible for doing this cruelty are responsible for it and not Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hey paar welcome back...i missed you...where have you been man?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for remembring me.
  
  I was busy writing on another forum.
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  QudsiaP1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with paarsurrey.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't ask them to answer any questions like this, because the answer is obviously that Sharia Law is inhumane and both a direct and indirect threat to the ways of God. Asking them only gives unwarranted credence to the imitator god of Islam.
  
  Edit---
  Leslie, I'm not trying to quash your discussion. Just saying that I personally have no tolerance for Islamic explanations.
  Nice to "see" ya again around here too.
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  G Miahposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  To you be your religion, to us be ours.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Muhammad will condemn this sentence to Asia Bible; he gave no such teachings; Mullah/Clergy is doing it and using name of religion for their own political motives.
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  QudsiaP1posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dear Leslie,
  
  Thank you for your question.
  
  I am sure you are aware of the mob mentality?
  This is how today most people work.
  
  No country allows for anyone to offend any one religiously, however, some times criminal acts take it to a whole new level.
  
  I have a hub, dedicated to this topic, I wish you to read it and the comments of the people in it, I hope that clarifies on how this whole situation works.
  
  http://hubpages.com/hub/In-Memory-Of-Salman-Taseer
  
  Long story short, a militant named Zia ul Haq, took over Pakistan and enforced severe laws for everything because he wanted to suffocate and scare the society so much that no one could threaten him.
  
  Sadly, most of those laws still exist and both criminal and extremist elements in our forsaken society abuse it as much as possible.
  
  For each man and woman will go to their grave and face God. What claims will you make when asked, "Who gave you the right to end humanity?", the murder of one person means you hold on your head the murder of all the future generations.
  
  Islam is a peaceful religion, only problem is most Muslims have no idea what Islam really is, making them the worst followers.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Then, why are there verses condoning Muslims can go to war or can kill others, like infidels, for example?
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Beelzedad
  
  Why you have SO MUCH hate for Islam and prophet Muhammad (PBUH)? You have always degraded and written against Islam in MOST of the forums.
  
  Now produce your proofs from Quran that it condones violence and i will reply to every accusation of yours.
  
  Lets start....
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I asked you a question, I didn't ask for you to fabricate stories about me.
  
  No, like many others here, I have assisted in exposing the fabrications of Islamic propagandists.
  
  Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
  
  Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."
  
  Ishaq:208 "When Allah gave permission to his Apostle to fight, the second Aqaba contained conditions involving war which were not in the first act of submission. Now we bound themselves to war against all mankind for Allah and His Apostle. He promised us a reward in Paradise for faithful service. We pledged ourselves to war in complete obedience to Muhammad no matter how evil the circumstances."
  
  Ishaq:472 "Muhammad's Companions are the best in war."
  
  Qur'an:8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"
  
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow wonderful Cherry-picking Beelzedad, by the way from which anti-Islamic sites you copy/paste these verses to suite your aim to make Islam look bad?
  
  All the people in this forum, be witness and i will prove these accusations false and you people be the judge....
  
  First of all, there are two principle sources of proof for the Muslims:
  
  1) The Quran (Literal word of God)
  
  2) The Hadith (Sayings, Deeds and Approvals of Prophet Muhammad)
  
  Therefore, i am only responsible to reply to accusations from these 2 sources.
  
  The word ‘Context’ has two dictionary meanings:
  
  1. The parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect.
  
  2. The set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.
  
  Any discussion on Quranic verses that refer to violence would be meaningless, without a study of the surrounding context.
  
  Beelzedad, leave the surrounding verses, you even haven’t quoted the whole verse. What you did is only cherry-picking and copying/pasting from anti-Islmic sources. Let me quote:
  
  “Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” [Quran 9:5]
  
  The next verse says: "And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad) , then protect him so that he may hear the word of Allah; and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not." [Quran 9:6]
  
  It is a well-known fact of Islamic history, that fighting against aggressors was prohibited during the first 13 years of the Prophet’s mission. After Muslims migrated to Medina, the verses above were revealed to enable the community to fight in self defense.
  
  Background of Chapter 9 of the Quran:
  
  As you quoted 2 verses from Chapter 9 of the Quran, let me disclose some FACTS:
  
  1) It is a war like situation.
  
  2) In the above verses, the words for disbelievers used is "Mushrikeen" (idolaters), so this is refering to the idolaters of Makkah, not to Jews or Christians at all.
  
  3) Another point to note is that the address is towards those who violated the peace treaty with the Prophet (PBUH). This theme repeats in all the verses up to 9:16. Naturally, Allah, in the Quran, is instructing the Prophet Muhammad to free himself from the peace treaty obligation, known as the Treaty of Hudaybiah; he made in the year 6 AH for a ten-year period. But the idolaters of Quraysh violated the treaty in the second year and raided a tribe who was an ally of the Prophet. The verse gives specific instruction to fight those who violated the treaty and killed allies of the Prophet. The meaning of the verses does not extend to other non-Muslims at all.
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  libby101aposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He only did the same that you do with the Bible.. we don't see you posting verses before and after biblical verses do we? You only post those that support your own twisted view of things!
  
  Peace
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I already told you many times to PROVE whatever you say in the forums BUT you CAN'T. So sad.
  
  Jesus said (as Christians believe):
  
  32. Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
  33. But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
  34. "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
  35. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother.
  36. and a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. (Matthew 10:32-36)
  
  25. Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said:
  26. "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple."
  27. And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple (Luke 14:25-27)
  
  26. He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away.
  27. "But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them right in front of me.”
  28. After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem. (Luke 19:26-28)
  
  Now libby i can quote a dozen more verses like these BUT you correct me if these verses are not in CONTEXT or if i have quoted half verses just like Beelzedad did above when he quoted half Quranic verse (not even 10% of the whole verse) "slay the idolaters where ever ye find them"
  
  So libby as per you wishes, i have quoted the Bible verses before and after and in CONTEXT. If you want more, i can write the whole chapter here.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You asked for verses and I produced them. The verses themselves make Islam look bad. I did nothing but provide them for you.
  
  The verses of the Quran are there for all to see, hence there are no accusations and only the words of the Quran.
  
  Those are scriptures, not proofs.
  
  In other words, you will not address the verses, you will provide more propaganda.
  
  Thank you for that, but I am fully aware of that definition.
  
  The fact that the Quran promotes violence under any circumstances shows it is not a religion of peace.
  
  In other words, if they don't accept Islam, kill them.
  
  Oh yes, the Islamic Conquests were all about defending yourselves.
  
  Like I said before, any holy book that condones violence under any circumstances is a religion of violence, not peace.
  
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If you really want to quote Quranic verses then you should quote the whole verse intsead of quoting it half.
  
  Tell me if you country comes under attack from foriegn forces, what will your army do?
  
  Yes! leave it to people, they will judge who is right.
  
  Who told you that if someone doesn't accept Islam, kill him? STOP telling LIES.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That doesn't matter in the least. If any part of your holy book condones violence under any circumstances, it is a religion of violence, not peace.
  
  What does that have to do with your holy book?
  
  History. The Islamic Conquests.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So sad that you cant even give proofs now. You speak such horrendous LIES. Let me give you some Statistics:
  
  "There is no coercion or compulsion in religion. The right way now stands clearly distinguished from the wrong. Hence he who rejects the evil ones and believes in Allah has indeed taken hold of the firm, unbreakable handle, and Allah (Whom he has held for support) is All-Hearing, All-Knowing." [Quran 2:256]
  
  Muslims have honored this commandment and they have been careful in not forcing people to convert to Islam.
  
  The best examples are Spain, India, East Europe where Muslims entered with armies and conquered them yet these countries remained non-Muslim majority.
  
  On the other hand, in Sub-Sahara Africa, Indonesia and Malaysia where Islamic armies never entered, these countries became Muslim majority countries. In the current 21st century, no Muslim army entered in North America or Europe yet millions of people are converting to Islam by their own will.
  
  Muslims ruled Spain (711-1492) for almost 750 years, yet Christians are 76%, Atheists are 20% & Muslims are only 2.3% of the total population of Spain. Similarly, Muslims ruled India (Subcontinent) for almost 1000 years until the revolt in 1857, yet the Hindus are in majority with 81%, Muslims 13% & Christians 3%.
  
  If powerful Muslim rulers wanted to spread Islam at the point of sword & convert forcibly, they could have done it quite conveniently and Spain and India today would have been known as Muslim majority countries.
  
  On the other hand, countries like Indonesia, Malaysia and Africa where not even a single Muslim fighter entered remained Muslim majority with 88%, 61% & 41% respectively.
  
  Now you can also watch the Christians made Documentary "When Moors Ruled Europe".
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBsDDGCIFLQ
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  History is replete with proof, they are called the Islamic Conquests. I'm not really interested whether you believe they never happened or not, most Islamic propagandists deny they did.
  
  Yes, Muslims did conquer them. Notice that Islam condoned this, hence it is a religion of war, not peace.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Amen LeslieAdrienne, Amen. Why would a devout Muslim strap a bomb to their body and seek to blow up others saying they are doing it in the name of their God, in the name of Allah? Is this what Muhammed is all about? Is this what your God Allah demands of his people?..........
  
  My God The Christian's God, is a God of Peace and Love!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Probably, for very much the same reasons Christians have committed the atrocities for which they are infamous, Dave.
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habeeposted 13 years ago
Good question!
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Paul Wingertposted 13 years ago
This conviction is totally rediculous and hard to believe in this day and age. It is very sad that any culture still hold traditions an belifs that are 2000 years outdated. Not so long ago a person would be condemned for the same thing in Christian cultures. I had a direct Swiss ancester who was put tortured to death inv the mid 1700's for missing too much church mass.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow....thanks for sharing about your relative....
  
  I am very grateful that I live in the nation that I live in and at the time that I live.....it doesn't matter what religion, there are "nuts" in every one.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What I find funny is these constant attacks on Islam by self-professed Christians. Turn the clock back just a couple of hundred years and we see exactly the same behavior from them. That does not matter though, because they were not real Christians.
  
  Just a few months ago a bunch of "Christians" were arrested for stealing children in Haiti, and the Pope is still hiding child abusers from the law while the US churches are going broke owing money all over the place.
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  Ruben Riveraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe in 300 years they'll come to reason
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I certainly hope so, but I will not be holding my breath. "Defending the faith," is more important than anything to them.
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  G Miahposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well said o respected one!
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Ruben Riveraposted 13 years ago
Unfortunately the Middle East is still ruled by religion and their twisted version of the Quran. Rumors are powerful in that area where someone starts a rumor and it can lead to death.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Most unfortunate...human nature can easily be roused to acts of foolishness in the name of God. I don't know of any religion that doesn't have a sultry past....
  
  Come to think of it, Jesus was put to death for an accusation of blasphemy....
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  Paul Wingertposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  There is a very wide line between what the Tora, Bible, and Koran says and plain common sense. As an example, according to the Bible, if I see my neighbor washing his car on a Sunday, he's suppose to be stoned to death. But I wouldn't do it because you'd think that executing someone on a Sunday would also be breaking the sabbath. Since throwing rocks would probably be considered work. LOL
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  exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  the Bible does not say do not work on sunday, Jesus said it is OK
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No Jesus did not say that. In fact, others wanted to persecute him for working on the Sabbath. Just thought you should know.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sabbath and Sunday are two different things.Sabbath means rest and actually the day of rest or Sabbath would be Saturday. But, Sunday is the first day of the week, so some say it it should be the day of worship....
  
  All I know is that Sunday was the set day when I got here we don't reciefwork New Testament people decided that Sunday would be our day of organized worship.
  
  There were several different types of Sabbaths in the Old Testament; some were a week long, some were a few days, and they always started at 6pm and ended at 6pm the ending day.
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Actually the Sabbath day begins on Friday evening and ends on Saturday evening. The biblical day begins of the evening. Saturday being the Sabbath
  Jesus healed on the Sabbath and the Pharassees and Scribes considered him a sinner for it. The Pharassees and Scribes held to the letter of the law. That is what Jesus had against them. They held to the letter of the law and didn't look into a mans heart.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Absolutely Stilljustwonderin,
  
  The heart is what is important, isn''t it?
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  stilljustwonderinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it is. Our hearts is what he is going to look at. Not the clothes we are wearing or any other unimportant thing that humans look at. People expect Christians to be perfect, but no one is perfect. We won't reach perfection until our Lord changes us when he takes us with him. When we all stand before God, we will all be found not to be perfect.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Paul,
  
  Those laws are Old Covenant for the Jews only laws and we are not under the law......When Jesus came, He fulfilled the law; I am very glad of that.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Amen!
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  towsenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hello friend
  
  There nothing wrong with working on sundays . If you have a job on Sunday s . in the old law the jews was stone for not keeping sabbath. That was for the Children of Isreal. God rested on the seventh day from his works of creation.
  
  When Jesus came on the scene he fulfill the law of the sabbath they wanted to stone Jesus for doing good on Sabbath. If it was wrong to do anything on sundays than it would be wrong to buy gas , cook or what if a member in your family had a heart attack on sunday, would you go to Hospital that day . Jesus said it ok to do good on sabbath.
  
  Our salvation is not in a day it' s in a relationship with Jesus who has fulfill the Sabbath. Some hold it on Saturdays its ok just as long as they are saved its ok to hold it on sundays because of the resurrecion. just be saved
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Reminds me of America. Someone started the rumor that a zygote is a human being and abortion doctors are still being targeted for death, by the true christians, All religions are the same. If one believes, and digs deep enough, a follower of any religion can and will, find the justifcation for another humans death, rape. torture, or sexual abuse. Every religion has a group that likes to kill for their god and each religion condemns the other for the same actions they are guilty of. No religious person of any faith believes that terrorism is terrorism if it is done by the nice people that believe as they do.
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  Ruben Riveraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think the difference is that here in America these deaths are not justified by the government in the way they are in the Middle East. Someone here in America says Obama sucks and people will just laugh or argue about it, someone in the Middle East Claims so and so said the king sucks and he will probably be dead by morning.
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ruben Rivera
  
  I have traveled to many parts of the middle east and was wondering about you veiw on Iraq
  
  Over One Million Iraqi Deaths Caused by US Occupation based on research by Michael Schwartz, posted on Voltaire Network Not one Iraqi person has been known to attack an American on USA soil. USA has half the military budget of the world combined. USA combined with Russia has 90% of the nuclear war heads and waste in the world.
  
  The greatest threat to mankind is a nuclear war and natural man made environment crises.
  
  Sure I think the middle east is not the place I would live, but do you think Iraqi war tactic are fair.
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  Ruben Riveraposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is where I don't agree of people discussing Iraq tactics if they have not been in the combat zones. I assume you have not. I was in Iraq for only seven months and every time we went out into the town we had to rehearse and rehearse immediate reaction drills and the reason because the old lady waving us could be throwing a grenade as soon as we turned our backs.
  
  Many people make it seem as if we went out there and started spraying bullets at anyone on the streets, it is true that some probably did but that is in no way the rules of engagement we were given and those who did are now in jail or will soon be.
  
  Does the death toll also include sunni's killing shiites and vice versa, it is true that has been a byproduct of the war but it's not like we in America sat here and anticipated that to happen where they would start killing each other. We as the military would like to have a conventional army as our enemy because it would be easier to distinguish but instead we have to look out for the little kids or the men drinking coffee because right there and then could be the next front line.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Reuben,
  
  I thank God for your service in the military...I pray that your memories are softened and your heart is settled.
  
  There is a lot I cold say about military service and politics, but I won't. I just give honor where honor is due.
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That result hasn't deminished the desire of the christians to turn america in to athe same type of country. Any country that is controlled by an imaginary bad a$$ like the terminator is in for truoble. on't forget that hehzues was only one the first one of the 25 or so saviors and movie characters to first to use the phrase...I'll Be Back.
  
  You asked if I think Iraqi war tactic are fair. Not being sure which tactics you are refering to I will ask you this...Do the tactics you are deriding have any resemblance to the christian fundamentalist attacks on doctors preforming legal operations? If all muslims can be judged by the actions of the fanatics in their house of worship, why shouldn't all christians be judged by the actions of the army of god? Both seek to kill all who disagree with their preverted view of a book no one can verify. Please. someone explain how this statement is incorrect. The twin towers or an abortion clinic, a terrorist is still a terrorist. Only their god changes.
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  JulesGeromeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  9/ 11 was justified by US gov.
  Massive killings in Africa with viruses, were justified as well. Poisoning US soldiers in the Gulf War, justified as well. The killings in Irak ,also.
  and what about what you guys are eating and drinking ?? Fluoride water, transgenic food...Do I have to go on?
  
  I think American people should see what's going on in their own country before pointing fingers to someone else's way of living and believing.
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  Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not at all. Executing a Christian woman for being Christian in a muslim country is not right and the Pakistani gov't shouldn't have allowed uneducated ignorant people to pass that sentence.
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As far as I know, she is to be executed as per the constitution of Pakistan 295-A,B,C which says that all prophets are to respected.
  
  This is not a question of persecuting Christian minorities in Pakistan at all. The list which i am presenting below consist of people who commited blasphemy and got killed in Pakistan and all of them are Muslims except 3 who are Christian. Interesting thing is that 1 Muslim was killed by the mob who is Hafiz-e-Quran (learned Quran by heart) for commiting blasphemy.
  
  Naemat Ahmar of Faisalabad was killed by a student.
  Tahir Iqbal died in mysterious circumstances in prison.
  Manzur Masih was gunned down outside the Lahore High Court.
  Buntu Masih was fatally wounded while in police custody.
  Sajjad Farooq, a hafiz-i-Quran, was killed by a mob in Gujranwala. Mohammad Yusuf, a former member of Zia’s Majlis-i-Shura, was killed in prison.
  Zahid, accused of desecrating the Quran was killed by a police constable.
  Mushtaq Zafar and Sanaullah, two blasphemy accused on bail, were shot dead.
  Samuel Masih, charged under 295-A, was attacked and fatally wounded in a TB clinic.
  Ashiq Nabi was shot dead in Nowshera because his wife alleged that he had desecrated the Holy Quran.
  Jagdish was lynched in a Karachi factory and a computer operator of Gujrat was killed by a policeman.
  And Anees Mallah was killed in a Sindh prison
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  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad:
  ...and your point is?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The point has to be that irrational beliefs in Invisible Super Beings always end in wars and killing. Surely?
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  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...and the history of man surely proves that Mark!
  Qwark
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  luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Mr. Knowles and Mr. Qwark Yuletide greetings...
  
  Peace on Earth
  
  Teri
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  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  DITTO Luv! and I wish ya many, many more! :
  Qwark
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  qwark!
  
  My reply was to Flightkeeper as she said:
  
  "Executing a Christian woman for being Christian in a muslim country is not right".
  
  My point was that not only Christians But 90% of those killed for blasphemy in Pakistan are Muslims. So it is useless to pass such comments. I am sure that the Christian and other minorities are completely protected in Pakistan.
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  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad:
  Is executing anyone in any country because of their religious beliefs "right?"
  It's not "useless" to pass these comments on!
  Hopefully, these comments will be read and understood and expose monotheism for what it is i.e. an inane, deadly human concept that is promulgated by the insane and lesser evolved of the human species!
  Qwark
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  pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @ahmad killing muslims in name of blasphemy is not something to boost about...this law is obselete and needs to be changed...even if person absuses god ...who are you and me to punish them?...remember god is all powerful , he doesnot need support from mortal ...does he?...he can handle abuses himself if he wants to..since person continues living till humans intervene...may be god didnt feel as bad as his followers did...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think the point he was trying to make is that Christians are not being singled out. These people are just as likely to murder an atheist or muslim for not groveling to allah correctly as they are a christian.
  
  And lets face it - the person who started this thread is not really interested in anything other than attacking islamic beliefs as not being as good as christian ones.
  
  That is the problem with believing in Invisible Super Beings. Thank goodness we pulled the teeth from the christian religion many years ago. It will just take time for islam to catch up, but eventually people will be educated.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  For that one needs a Dental Surgeon. The next patient should be the Atheism; if they volunteer.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ahmad,
  
  I appreciate the list... I knew she wasn't the only one. She got press because she is the only woman.....Thanks
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We, here, in an enlightened nation perceive that she is being punished for not embracing Islam as she was expected to. It runs against the concept of religious freedom which the US holds as one of our founding ideals. Civil and inalienable rights violations will continue to divide our cultures. There is no middle ground.
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The middle ground is the fact that the word God is not in the constitution for over 200 years now.
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  LeslieAdrienneposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are absolutely right...
  
  Thank God for my inalienable rights.....
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As a tourist, I have traveled within 5 different war zones. I can't imagine running out ideas to harm anyone and why could it not be the same for other countries like the USA.
  
  On 9/11 about 15 Saudi out 19 terrorist were on those air planes, that hit the Twin Towers. No Iraqi was on those planes and not ever has been an attack on USA soil by them. Bush related 9.11 attacks as the worst ever attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor.
  
  That’s make as much sense as if Japan attacks Pearl Harbor, then American would go and attack Indonesia.
  
  No sense ,Unless! the Saudi have 5 trillion dollar worth of oil invested in the USA. Greed and religion is a hell of mixture for war, when most people don’t like WAR
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know this this topic and question is about Muhammed if its being peaceful, merciful etc.... What would he think of the death sentence for Asia Bibi?
  
  My post is just one example source of greed and religion and how it’s increasing pressuring our mass majority and even greater the poor.
  
  My final point being
  
  There no reason to kill at all, to kill someone to prove to all of us, that killing is wrong is hypocritical and never solve anything.
  
  A murderer can be jailed for life and force to work for any ounce of freedom even as much to just read a book for those few ounces of freedom
  
  Sound peaceful and merciful to me
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  Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The same may be said of the christian beliefs in this country! Simply look how important a candidate's religious beliefs are to many voters in this country! Sad, but true!
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  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Randy:
  I reiterate: "Sad but true!"
  Qwark
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rotlposted 13 years ago
I am sure your question does not come with an agenda. Why doesn't someone just start a thread called "Islam and Muslims suck" where every anti-Islam person can chime in, all in one place, instead of starting these ridiculous threads.

A self-described "devout Christian" recently gunned down an abortion doctor in church in front of his family, in America. This killer was applauded by some "devout Christians." But you don't see anyone starting threads questioning all of Christianity.

Any group, religion, ethnicity, country can be made to look bad by one or two hand-picked incidents.
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qwarkposted 13 years ago
If it weren't religion,power,control etc., we predacious animals would find other reasons to kill.
The human animal is just doing what comes naturally. Why would one expect less?
There is not a time in our short existence on the planet, that we haven't been involved with death, pain and destruction.
What's the big deal? Things are status quo.
Qwark
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Successful Yvonneposted 13 years ago
All religious people worship Allah, the One; but all the people see Him not alike. This universal Allah is wisdom, will and love. All men see not the Triune Allah. One see Him as Allah of might, another as Allah of thought, and another as Allah of love. A man's ideal is his God and so, as man unfolds his God unfolds. Man's God today, tomorrow is not God. The nations of the earth see Allah from different points of view, and so He does not seem the same to everyone. Not even all Moslems or Muslims see Allah the same. Man names the part of Allah "he" sees, and this to "him" is all of Allah, and every nation sees a part of Allah, and every nation has a name for Allah. The Brahmans call Him Parabrahm, in Egpt He is Thoth, Zeus is His name in Greece, Jehovah is His Hebrew name, but everywhere He is the causeless cause, and the rootless root from which all things have grown; So... to each his own. Have a Wonderful Day and a Better Tomorrow! Stay Blessed!
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  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yvonne:
  ...so your are saying that this "god/allah" thing is anything you imagine "it" to be?
  That would mean that there exist as many 'gods/allahs" as there are people who can imagine them. Ok. Sounds reasonable to me.
  The "operative" word in that sentence is "imagine."
  Qwark
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  DzyMsLizzyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  one and the same--just given different names/characteristics in different regions/religions. That's why I don't capitalize 'god;' I view it more as a job description than a name.
  
  More wars throughout history have been started in the name of god/religion than any other cause.
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  qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Dzy:
  ...status quo! :
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qwarkposted 13 years ago
"All is fair in love and war."
What the hell is "fair" in life!
Qwark
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I would comment, but evidently my statements tend to be "inflammatory" and contrary to the accepted political correctness that we are being controlled by. Can't speak the truth, or I get booted.
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pisean282311posted 13 years ago
@LeslieAdrienne

well it is not culture..pakistani culture has been sufi based..it is just in last 20 years we are seeing this things...
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are right the sufi or the Brailvi Sunnis are in majority in Pakistan but they are not organized; Deobandi and Ahle-Hadith/or Wahabis are extremists and more organized; they are doing it without any authority from Quran/Islam/Muhammad.
  
  The moderate Muslims are not involved in such things.
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David Paul 57posted 13 years ago
There is no god only people that are evolving and as we do so we will shed these crazy religious believes
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DoubleScorpionposted 13 years ago
I do not believe the punishment fits the crime in this instance. As I don't believe in all of the American punishments for crimes either...some could be considered to "harsh"...while others are considered to "soft". I am glad to live in a country were we are free to speak our minds (for the most part) with out reprocussion from the government. Although we do not agree with the culture and lifestyle of those in the middle-east or other parts of the world... it is however thier cultures and lifestyles...we would not want any outside enity to come to our country and tell us how to do things. It is simply a difference in government and judicial systems...nothing more...
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smattomposted 13 years ago
The sooner we ditch all this flawed religious stuff with all its baggage and the quicker we get back to basic, humanist principles, the better for all the world.

Out of interest, UK common law has two precepts:

1) Do not harm
2) Do not cause loss

Pretty neat, eh?

BTW Feel free to disagree, criticise, add, subtract or whatever. You can be assured I will neither damn you to some hell nor pray for you. Have a nice day.
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Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago
This is what happens when religion controls a country. This is exactly why we do not want it to happen here in America.
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
There is no such genreal verse in Quran; the verse should be seen in the context of some verses before and some after.
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Ahmad Usmanposted 13 years ago
pisean

I am sure that i am communicating with sane people BUT Alas! you completely misunderstood my point. Where i have boosted about the killings of Muslims for blaphemy?

Mark Knowles understood my point and my point was simple, its not the matter of targetting minorities but a matter of keeping the honor of all prophets unlike the western countries, where we find people abusing prophets in the name of freedom of speech and expression.

I tell you why this Law should remain in Pakistan because:

We dont want someone calling Jesus (Peace and blessings be upon him) a B - - - - - -, like Jews and others do in the name of freedom.

We dont want someone calling blessed Mary (Peace & blessings be upon her) a W - - - - in the name of freedom of speech. A woman whose purity is spoken of by God himself in the Quran "Behold! the angel said: O Mary! 'God has chosen you and purified you and has chosen you above the women of all nations. O Mary! God gives you the good news of a word from Him, whose name shall be Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honored in this world and the hereafter, and one of those brought near to God" (Quran 3:42).

We dont want someone calling Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) a P - - - - - - - - or a W - - - - - - - - or a W - - M - - - - - etc etc.

By Allah, all we Muslims want, is to respect all Prophets from Adam to Muhammad (PBUT) and all the Divine books (TAURAH to Moses, ZABOOR to David, INJEEL to Jesus & QURAN to Muhammad).

If this Law is abolished, then we can expect blasphemies not only from non-Muslims but Muslims also like what a Muslim Salman Rushdie did, that a Jew or Christian can't even think of doing and the British Gov honured him with the Title of 'Sir'. What Taslima Nasreen did and got top awards from Sweedish, Norwision, USA, Germany, Beligium, French Gov's.

I think not even the presideint or PM of Pakistan can abolish this law BUT yes majority of the Muslims opinion is that another clause should be added that "Anyone who falsely accuse someone of being blasphemous, he/she (Accuser) should be given the same punishment which is fixed for the accused". Then i believe no one would ever dare to think of using it for wrong purpose.
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  pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So calling whomever this or that changes what in the grand scheme of things?
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  libby101aposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's sad that people still live and die by such harsh laws! Jesus said whoever is without sin to cast the first stone... apparently they don't think this applies to them!
  
  Nobody should die for such things! I find it crazy! It doesn't change anything when someone says something... if they disrespect a true prophet... which would be different in my opinion that the ones listed above... but God will take care of them...God doesn't need man to kill for him! Just as God didn't need Muhammad forcing a sword upon innocent people! God can do fine all on his own!
  
  A person should be allowed free will! Every man is accountable for his own actions when it comes to religion!
  
  It's sad that there are barbaric areas such as this that still will kill over such things!
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  Ahmad Usmanposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  HARSH, BARBARIC Biblical laws:
  
  ---> A woman suspected or accused of adultery is to be tested by drinking the 'WATER OF BITTERNESS' mixed with 'DUST' from the floor if she is, her 'BELLY & GLANDS' will come out. Read (Numbers 5:12-31).
  
  ---> Stone the Woman that commits adultery!
  
  "If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her.
  Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:22 & 24)
  
  "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10)
  
  ---> Burn The Daughter if she commits adultery!
  
  "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21:9)
  
  ---> Bible asks to cut off Women's hand for defending their husbands!
  
  "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity." (Deut. 25:11-12).
  
  ---> Men and women commits adultery if either of them divorces & re-marry (and ultimately be put to death)!
  
  "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." (Matthew 19:9)
  
  "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." (Mark 10:11-12)
  
  "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." (Luke 16:18)
  
  See how many people living alone in the US, who call them selves "Devout Christians" and attend Church regualry break this biblical commandment. Should they not be put to death?
  
  I pray libby you don't break the Biblical commanmends otherwise the penalty is severe and worse.
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  libby101aposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do you know the difference Ahmad? Jesus said "He who is without sin to cast the first stone!" In other words... do not kill her... she has been forgiven! Apparently your entire religion misses the entire teachings of Christ...which is peace and love and forgiveness! Just because someone has sinned doesn't mean they should be put to death! Jesus said for her to go and sin no more!
  
  You understand the concept that Jesus came and fulfilled the law...right? In other words he changed everything! Read the entire Bible and find out!
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  libby101aposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh wait... you only use parts that will agree with Islam... you realize that is very strange right? To only use parts of a book that agrees with what you need to hear... and disregard the rest! If I believe in one part of any book, and am willing to quote those verses as though that have truth to them.. you can bet I will use the rest of the book as the same value!
  
  One part of something can not be holy while the rest is evil! If you don't believe in parts of the Bible then don't believe any of it! but see you can't do that... because your Qu'ran states that the Toran is accurate... and it also says that God's word cannot be corrupted... so if the Torah cannot be corrupted then if you disregard it you are sinning! Therefore you have to do it... .or you are in sin! Muhammad did a good job meshing it altogether!
  
  When Jesus came he fulfilled the law! When they brought the prostitute to him, they were going to stone her to death for her sins and being caught in the very act of adultery, but Jesus said, "he who is without sin to cast the first stone." All of her accusers left... and there were many! Jesus turned to her and said "go and sin no more!" Jesus didn't believe in killing people for their sins! He believed in forgiving them and stopping their sins! For there is no salvation in killing a sinner... but in getting them to stop sinning is where salvation lies!
  
  Even if you don't believe that Jesus is the son of God, you must look at these verses... so how do you still kill when Jesus said not to??? Somebody somewhere has deceived somebody. I put my bets on Muhammad... considering he foamed at the mouth after a vist from a so called angel!
  
  John 8:7
  "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."
  
  Matt 26:52- He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
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  pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I do agree! Sad!
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Woman Of Courageposted 13 years ago
Libby, Agreed! The entire bible is holy.
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1. 58
  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You mean it's full of holes? I would agree.
  reply report

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