Do you think the day is coming when ISIS will attack us here in America? Is there any way to stop a ISIS attack here in America? What do you think America should do about ISIS? Should we strike them in such a way as to cripple their organization forever? What can America do to protect America? What should America do? I know there are large cultural differences between America and most Muslim countries but should we use every force available to enforce human rights for all people. I think America should work to be 100 percent independent of having to purchase oil from the middle east and then the middle east countries would have to back off their extremist beliefs if they ever wanted any help from America. I find it sad that religion is causing all of this. Religion has caused more wars and conflicts than anything else on earth. What do you think about all this. I hope we can have a civilized discussion with out fighting among our self's.
I think every member of ISIS should be hunted down and brought to justice. They are beheading people that are not agents of the governments in the countries they come from. They should be brought to justice and any country supporting ISIS should be dealt with and made to turn over any ISIS members. I fear if the US does not stand firmly that we will have many more 9-11's in our future.
It is enviable that some push back will be felt. We are very vulnerable through our shipping ports and borders. As much as we are motivated to defend ourselves from this threat we are also ignoring our escalation of the tensions that perpetuate the conflict.
Really? That is the only reason ISIS would attack us? Is that the reason they are attacking their current victims?
I find it difficult to connect the dots of your "we made our own bed" Middle East problem rationalization with ISIS.
Of course it is only an opinion, and I could be as wrong as I think I am right, but for you to bring that old chestnut to this question is a stretch in my mind. You need to update your repertoire. Would you also say the same as the reason for the Taliban's actions?
Do you not think we should oppose ISIS? Do you propose we retreat to our shores, and let the Middle East go about its merry way, confident that our invulnerable "dome" will protect us from any foreign threats that achieve the power available to an oil-rich terrorist state?
My view is that if my four kids are playing in the backyard and I find a nest of baby Rattle snakes, I am not going to let them be because they are not deadly "just yet." I will exterminate the buggers and deal with mamma Rattler's wrath as I must. ISIS is a threat to our nation now, and it is not because of our actions. It is because they are a throwback to the worst of primitive civilization's fanatical societies.
Oops, guess I got a bit carried away. But still, the US's actions are not the fuel that drives ISIS - in my opinion.
To make a statement such as yours you are disingenuous to the argument. Who do you think created ISIS, Al Qaeda and the Taliban? Us, with our inflexible positions regarding invading their countries, taking their land and giving it to others, overthrowing their governments and killing their people. Sure you can make the same old argument of the amnesia stricken Americans as "What did we ever do to them" argument and if it is not convenient then dismiss it. Just because the media does not report the strife over there everyday it does not mean it goes away. Yours is the typical answer every American wants to hear short of nuking the entire region.
Well take the US out of the picture completely and just focus on the children they've killed in the past year alone. Focus on the mothers and daughters they have taken as sex slaves and are making money off of to fund their mission. Focus on the religious groups they have driven into the mountains to starve and die. Don't worry about the west at all... just focus on what they're doing in Iraq. I don't know if you are comfortable sitting back and watching thousands upon thousands of innocent ppl being slaughtered, but I'm not.
Convenient don't you think? Erase the causes and concentrate on the effects. It never will find an answer any other way? Is it better for our sons and daughters to go give their lives to defend what their own parents will not fix themselves? The morals and corruption over there is our problem only because we choose to meddle in it. We have tried to impose our societal values countless times in other countries such as Viet Nam, the Philippines, Nicaragua, Haiti, Cuba the list goes on. What have we given or gained from it? The middle east has been a mess since times of the Ottoman Empire through the times of the British break up of it to now as we see the results. Did we set up the bylaws and structure for these terrorist groups? I don't think we had a direct hand but we did ignore our role in helping it along through overthrowing their governments and backing the dictators that even now raise hell on their people. So what should we do? Find another pocket politician that answers to us. That is clearly no long term solution. Maybe we should let their parents organize and throw out the creeps that wish to continue these insurrections.
It's so odd to me... the way some ppl think.
Supposition: "If we had not aided _____, we would have been unaffected by the aftermath of _____."
Every time we step in to help a country in need... every time we offer our support to a fellow human being who needs help, WE are the better for it. How much more could we possibly have in America? We cannot hoard! We cannot hold back good from those who need it. How do you know what the future holds? How do you know that one day America wont be in utter, desperate, dire circumstances? And what if all the countries we've aided... what if all the armies we got behind... what if all the prayers, support and generosity wont come back and save us in the end? There is a reason we help others... and it's not to help ourselves. It's b/c it is the RIGHT thing to do! And if that good will returns to us, then all the more reason to believe we did the right thing, but if we withhold good from those in need.... do not be surprised if no one rises up to our defense. No man is an island, no country stands alone.
James 4: 16-17
"But as it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil. Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin."
Rhamson, yes we have tried to impose our moral and societal values-In some instances. That was then and this is now. When does the son stop paying for the sins of the father; IF the father was in fact guilty if committing those sins?
When do we look at the fact that ISIS is inside our borders, and when do we decide that we don't want to live in fear that our next trip to the supermarket may be our last trip to the supermarket because of mass beheadings?
That may sound like fear-mongering: but it isn't meant to be. It is meant to serve as a reality check. The fact is, ISIS is here inside our borders.
....That was then and this is now.
Your response reminds me of the commercial where the guy is on the cell phone saying "Can you hear me now?" He keeps using the same line and implement but just moves a couple of feet. You can't erase the past in their view because we continue to revisit it with our interference and support for Israel. We have not changed a thing and why should they expect any different from us. You can't change history.
This is THEIR war. War is always catastrophic and costly and the innocents always get harmed or killed. It is their culture and we can never seem to get that through our heads. It is like the doctor who keeps changing the medicine before the patient can be cured. The side effects of the different medicines mask the cure and the patient never gets well. Let them kill each other if that is their answer to their political woes.
You are right about securing our borders against their infiltration but other than that we let them have at each other.
"Let them kill each other if that is their answer to their political woes."That would be fine with me: IF IT WERE TO STOP THERE. But, they have proven several times that it's not stopping at killing EACH OTHER. They're killing us and we can either mount the considerable defense that the US of A has or lie on our backs until they take us out one by one. I'd prefer the former. Blow them to smithereens/
We should have blown them to smithereens OVER there, but our leadership chose not to. Now they are here and we must deal with them before they 'deal with us.' Before a shopping trip turns into the last excursion I'll make and I'm beheaded for my religion or for choosing the red dress instead of the blue dress.
Yes, this is THEIR war, but the minute it involved us or our allies, it became our war and ours to fight or not to fight. I think the majority of Americans no longer want to take the back seat to this terror threat.
"Let them have at each other;" if only they would STOP at 'having at each other', but their intent is to have at each other AND anyone who does not see the world as they do. That means nearly everyone. Cut off EVERYONE's head? Heck, no.
Are we to believe the never ending calculations of the 40 ISIS radicals who have returned and now estimated at 15 are not under surveillance? The idiots who have swallowed the Islamic tie to the Jihadist threat are so credible that you would have us spend another couple of trillion to prevent from that happening? You somehow think that we have some sort way of terrifying the terrorists out of doing the acts that they do. You only have control of yourself as evidenced by the senseless high school shootings and government installation murders.
YOU CANNOT STOP THEM!
We differ in beliefs on that one, then it is clear. I feel they CAN and MUST be stopped.
You feel just as strongly that they cannot be stoppered.
I say warfare on every level with the intent to defeat. Not to take prisoners or have them surrender, but to blow them all from the face of the earth. I believe our allies aren't committing real measurable support because they're being given too much of a soft shoe and not a hard sell.
Tolerate them, if you'd like, but soon, if you tolerate enough, there'll be signs, "NIMBY" and, "COMING TO YOUR BUTCHERS AND LIBRARY SOON..."
What you fail to understand this is a political mess we injected ourselves into with a war solution. War has always been the failure of politics. You claim that you can wipe them out if we just did the war thing harder. The harder war thing has yielded us what? I'll tell you what! A determination to inflict our will on other peoples to settle their differences. And just when it begins we step in and put the brakes on it. How arrogant and counterproductive. You will never be safe as long as this is run by outside influence. The only thing we have been able to provide is weapons for the enemy to fight against us. I don't know what you think we can do with the gang that couldn't shoot straight. It's like hurry up fire then aim.
Giving the answers to your commentary that I want to, would invoke the ire of every person who feels that we're doing our best, our leaders could not do any better and we do best to settle for mediocrity. Rather than fan the flames of politics in a discussion that is clearly NOT about politics, but at every turn, someone wants to make it about politicos. It shouldn't, like Ebola, be at all political. It should be, as it started out to be, an issue first and foremost about National Security.
If you want to argue the should be's of the issue you are tantamount to arguing dreams. The situation of the middle east is something we should never have entered into starting with Harry Truman who begrudgingly entered into the establishment of Israel. It was under extreme political pressure that he complied and we are living to regret it.
What makes you think that you are the judge and jury (and know better than I) about what I understand and FAIL to understand?
Rhamson, I'm not looking for a judgement of my communication style: These forums are not for judging communication style' rather for DETERMINING and DECIPHERING the content of what is communicated-on its merit.
....These forums are not for judging communication style' rather for DETERMINING and DECIPHERING the content of what is communicated-on its merit.
You are either missing the point or never got it. Maybe you need a little more practice before you weigh in on what is deemed the point of these forums. You mentioned that I was defensive in an earlier post, maybe you should re-visit that for yourself.
Ciao! It's been real and it's been fun; but it's not been real fun!
I need practice before weighing in on someone's HUB? I think not. I read the Hub and respond to the HUB, and sometimes t respond to the other people commenting on the same Hub that I've just read, so we're 'comparing notes!' My resources are well-documnted articles or span hearings. I don't cite biased sources.
I'm sorry you were't pleased with my commentaries]:
This is a WRITERS hub. It is designed to promote writing and reward those that work on improving their writing skills. What did you not get about that? If I challenge your commentaries it is due to the content that you provide. Nothing personal as I don't know you from Adam and probably shall never meet you in person. It is refreshing to do this under the air of anonymity. This way bias and guile is not a part of any criticisms offered in the process. I am not the judge and jury of your comments or thoughts but I am free to express my opinion whether constructive or not. Your only requirement is to accept it or not. Your choice is obvious that it is not. So to quote a new found dissident to my criticism. Ciao right back at you.
Correct. You are free to agree or disagree with my opinion as I stated it and offer your reasoning as to why you feel my thinking is correct or incorrect. But, you are to critique objectively, without indicating that your belief is the moral authority.
You say this is THEIR war: it is in the sense that it is war, and war is always catastrophic. However we have agreements with Israel that we must morally and legally honor as well as. because it's the right thing to do. That is what separates our country from many other countries we do the right thing and we hope always to do the right thing. We should try to make that our standard but our politicians don't always cooperate. Merry Christmas!
Ridiculous! The whole idea that we always do the right thing and especially in the middle east is a figment of your immagination. Guess who armed the Taliban? We did. Guess who overthrew the democratic government in Iran? We did. Guess who invaded Iraq with a host of lies and distortions. We did. Guess who allows Israel to seize land and throw out the former owners with no sanctions. We do.
We are far from the right people to get involved in other countries affairs but that doesn't stop us. The "right thing", my eye.
We're not lily white here and everybody knows that. But the US of A does more right than wrong. You're cherry picking events in which we were less than perfect. There were times (Abu Ghraib comes to mind) when citizens/and their behavior were less than ideal.
But, that is the exception to the rule. How many times have we 'come' to the aid and rescue of other countries when others wouldn't? We weren't the only country to assist the French resistance in WWII, but not everyone was there. How many countries made any attempt to liberate France, Britain and rebuild Japan, after it had been victimized during WWII?
Granted, the US caused a good portion of that damage, but they did the right thing and worked on rebuilding what it had decimated (right or wrong-Japan wanted an end to that war, too.). They just had a different ending in mind.
The right thing is something demonstrated in the military: "leave no man behind" No matter where you stood in the Bowe Bergdahl (or whomever it was who abandoned/left his post and was taken prisoner by the Taliban), we did the right thing to honor the code and wen't in after him. The US dealt (again, right or wrong) with the devil to get him back.
We didn't do the same for A. Tamooreesi for some reason, but we've not shunned the underfed through the whole world. We've honored our treaties because it was the right thing to do (we told Japan that we wouldn't leave them defenseless while they were rebuild and we still have a presence there. Yes, we place many Japanese in internment camps in WWII, something we're not proud of, but we admit a mistake.
There are millions of people in Africa who owe their very existence to the selflessness of people in the United States and United States intervention. I'm thinking here of the selfless acts during the Ebola outbreak when HIV ws rampant.
In spite or the fact that it wasn't known if an infected person from Liberia, could cause the death of an American, he was flown to the US, at our expense, to give him/her the first rate medical care that the US has to offer. That is the right thing to do, the humane thing to do and my blood is boiling thinking that you hide behind a few examples where the US was less than 100% right to show that they are always wrong. I am aghast.
We had an episode today against the police defending citizens of the United States. They represent the United States of America and act to preserve and protect EVERY time they put on the uniform. Sure, there are a few rotten apples, but by and large the police and fire department and all first responders were attacked today. They were doing the right thing, they and others in similar positions, preventing chaos in the United States.
If you feel so strongly that the United States is so wrong all of the time, you're part of the problem that is making the United States less than it can be. If that sticks, don't let the door hit you're butt on the way out.
The only way that we can improve on our failed policies is to admit them and change our tact for actions in the future. I agree the US has much potential in doing good in many instances but our "interests" are much in question of late. The plutocracy and oligarcal controllers are way too powerful and greedily direct policies that leave us in a bad light. We were once a great power in the world and I hope we don't just turn into bullies with a powerful military to carry it out.
I must have missed something; and this has something to do with ISIS coming to America, how?
The Canadian border is so close and so wide open, I will even drive you. Your understanding of historical events is twisted, incomplete and delusional. The Taliban were not armed by the US. What lies prompted the invasion of Iraq? What land have the Israelis seized that was not lost to them after they repelled invaders?
You should go and read some more on the subject as your delusional take on historical events is obviously slanted by your bias. I am sorry that you live in the selective ignorance that makes your opinions seem real to you.
1) The Taliban was created by the ISI in 1994.
2) The stupid media lie that there were no weapons of mass distruction in Iraq was finally laid to rest by the discovery there of by ISIS just this year, Wikileaks and reports from multiple news agencies from prior years.
3) Israel has surrendered land to the Palestinians year after year since the 70s in an attempt to gain peace. It is a failure because the Palestinian leaders cannot abide the idea of people of the book living on land that was once Muslim. Just as Muslims have designs on Spain.
Research might help you.
And propaganda seems to be yours. You have selective history but that goes with reading and listening to righty crap. You really need to get a better schtik as your bias always leaves one wondering what your purpose is. Is it for a good ends or just an empty barrel rolling along making noise. I must admit it is fun reading your predictable distain for those with constructive thought. Get a life!
Untrue. ISIS, the Taliban, etc. have always been there, albeit without the name. The US did not create Sharia law, for instance; that comes from the radicals that wish to control others. So do the killing of girls going to church or refusing sex with the army.
No, the peoples of the area look around and want what others have, whether the US or any of the developed countries. THAT is what has brought about the militant groups - the people are straying from accepting their control and they don't like it.
"Untrue. ISIS, the Taliban, etc. have always been there, albeit without the name...."
That is a good point. Our hand, (among others), may have helped stir the stew that became any of the several groups mentioned, but I too think the seeds that these groups grew from are not ones planted by the U.S.
Most historical accounts I found attribute the birth of the Taliban to the Pakistani ISI. We may have helped in their growth as a tool to thwart the Soviet Union - a tool that turned out to be double-edged - but it was not the U.S. that created it.
By deposing Saddam we may have removed a tyrant that was acting as a control against a group like ISIS, but we did not create ISIS - your point speaks to what really created ISIS.
Even if in your estimation we did not start it we have done little to help it. The more we help the worse it gets. You cannot give people that which they don't want for themselves. The evolution of it will eventually find stability. If they wish to war on each other and rape and pillage their neighbors then I guess their neighbors are willing to put up with it. The only thing we can do is contain it to their part of the world and if they wish to share their insidious behavior outside their borders we should unleash hell on them.
Unfortunately, the weapons of today's world allow them to unleash not only a war but millions of dead with one blow - a blow that WILL happen one day if not stopped before then. Because of that it is not practical to leave it alone within their own borders, at least not unless the people there are going to stop it themselves.
Which I predict they will, given time. Whether that time also allows preparation for a goliath blow to someone else first is the question.
Well now, that's almost a response I can agree with.
Yes, except for the immediate lives saved when we step in and stop a genocide, it does seem to almost get worse the more we help.
Very true - we cannot give people something they do not want, as in our democratic ideals, but, do you think there are many that don't want personal freedom or freedom for their loved ones? We might have a poor scorecard, but there are still a lot of alive and more free people because of it.
Hmm... you are right, it has been going on Since the Ottoman empire, (and well before too, how do you think they became an empire), so in all those hundreds of years did their path of evolution find them at a point of stability?
Do you really think their "neighbors put up with it" as a matter of choice? I know, I know, it does seem that way sometimes. But when your choice is acquiesce or die, live semi-free or be a slave in chains, how many "live free or die" leaders have arisen among them?
Contain them and let them kill each other - or work out a solution, seems like hands in the air solution. Do we just sit back and watch as an ISIS-like entity commits the societal atrocities we are seeing now. Have we reached a point where our hearts, (and consciences), have hardened to the point we can sit by and say, "Oh well, we tried"?
Being the callous soul I am, it would be fine with me if we could kill everyone that demonstrated ISIS-type behaviors freely. But I have a problem sitting back and watching innocents killed if we have any possible way to help them.
You seem to be the only other adult in the room with a perspective of history to back your statements. I agree that it is hard to sit back and watch a society eat its young. The problem is that when we try to inject our values and culture into a society that uses a religion as a crutch to beat their charges with, we only pour fuel on the fire. They hate our religion and culture is a plain fact. So our answer has been to more forcefully add fuel to it? Just as with Iran who threw us out because of our meddling in their affairs they have begun to have a stability and even rumblings of change as the youth start taking charge in some political capacity. Do they still stone and behead people? Absolutely! But we have been able to contain them as we are proactive and vigilant in watching and coercing them to drop their nuclear aspirations. Americas ultimate response is to move in and kill everything that disagrees with us. Unfortunately it almost always has the opposite affect we are looking for.
Careful there rHamson, plenty of other adult participants have offered valid contributions. here. We just don't seem to agree with many of them.
But I must admit, our obstinence(sp?) in insisting that our way is the only right way is pretty arrogant.
GA, thank you. I was just mulling that statement over and realizing that there were many statements made to which I agreed or disagreed, but either way, they were ADULT statements. I must agree that I've seen a certain level of maturity in some responses.
Agreed! But words escape me when I try to direct the conversation towards some logical conclusions drawn from failed past mistakes. The willingness to blame one man for all the woes is inescapably American in its lunacy. We like to forget the other half of this conundrum that is our irresponsibility(I know not a word but fits) in re-electing these congressional criminals. I am continually bombarded with the ridiculous blame game that solves nothing and only exasperates the argument.
GA, thank you; I couldn't have said it better myself and you beat me to it!
Some people foolishly continue to argue that Al Qaeda and the Taliban were a direct creation of the United States, specifically the CIA and Ronald Reagan's efforts to undermine the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. While the Taliban and Al Qaeda both have origins in the Mujahadeen that battled the Soviet military, they are just 2 factions among many. Many of those factions joined the United States during the initial attack on both Al Qaeda and the Taliban during the Afghan War, as the Northern Alliance. The Taliban was trained and equipped by Pakistan, Al Qaeda grew out of Bin Laden's financial and organizational efforts during the Soviet occupation, often attacking any group supported by the US.
http://www-pub.naz.edu/~aamghar6/Histor … aliban.htm
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/dana-r … id/555437/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline … iller.html
You are right. The U.S. did not create these entities.
But, the U.S. did play a very large part in their effectiveness and survival - while it served our interests. This point has been well documented.
Our support of the Taliban and Bin Laden's Al Qaeda when it served our purpose to thwart the Soviet aggression is pretty hard to deny.
Another but... but, the fact that we supported their survival does not mean we are also responsible for their metamorphosis into their current anti-Western societies practices.
Damn! Did I just agree with you? Whodathunkit.
You deem it a "foolish" contention, but can you deny that either the Taiban or Al Qaeda would have survived the Afghanistan Soviet effort without U.S. support?
Both the Taliban and the early Al Qaeda organizations had U.S. support during the Soviet Afghanistan war effort.
You are right, of course. The crazy American policy of writing the Quran has caused so much trouble in the world.
It is convenient to concentrate on the effects rather than the causes of a problem. But in doing so you ignore the root of the problems that continue to crop up in the future. We are not a presence in the middle east for any charitable reason. We are there to protect our allies and continue our influence on oil and the monetary gains it brings. To think that religious freedom and human rights are the reasons is ridiculous. We only have to look at the African nations who have no plunder to prove that. Our oligarchic system of government deems it necessary to continue these conflicts while plying us with farcical fantasies of good and American benevolence. Wake up man! You need to see the forest for the trees.
The following is a list of countries in which the United States has conducted exercises or has a continuing military presence. Admittedly it is not all of Africa, but I am certain that Burkina Faso has little oil and even fewer Jews.
Central African Republic
Democratic Republic of the Congo
As for the half baked oil theory, the United States isn't invading Nigeria, Venezuela, Mexico or Canada - the major exporters of oil to the US. Despite the best efforts of the anti-progress left in the United States, it is a net exporter of energy.
What is half baked is even thinking that the countries you mentioned even come in close to the cluster flop we created in our half baked interference in Iraq, Afghanistan or even by creating and defending the creation of Israel. Good try but you don't even scratch a open scab with your ridiculous examples.
Canada has already been struck twice by ISIS sympathizers. It is only a matter of time before the US is also struck.
I agree. George Bush is always saying that time will tell if he made the right choice to so aggressively pursue those who attacked on 9-11. (Not to bring any political agenda into this...) but I think we can see that to sit back and wait is a mistake. Evil is brewing, it is funded, it is manned and it is increasing in power.
ISIS is not a direct result of the US's response to 911. ISIS is in response to the disarray that took place after the US invaded Iraq which had nothing to do with 911. I know this looks like a "Mulligan Stew" thrown together for our edification but keep the story straight. ISIS is the culmination of the dismantling of the Iraqi government when Saddam Hussein was deposed and when Bashar Assad turned on his own people in Syria. The whole region is in turmoil as it finds an identity while fighting a war.
I didn't say Isis was a direct result of Hussein. What I said was that looking at Isis now... seeing how they've grown in power and threat, we can see that it was probably a very wise decision to have actively pursued the militants that caused 9-11. In other words... you leave these dudes unchecked and they balloon into a full on force of destruction.
ISIS is a direct consequence of Obama's ineptitude and failure to compel the Iraqi government to accept an American base like the ones in other defeated nations like Germany and Japan.
Oh yes! Yes it must be the Obama Boogeyman, it must be his fault going back to the fall of Rome. I can always count on your one reason for everything bad happening with the same response. It will just be so ducky when he is gone is your best response. Oh wait we have the Hillary Boogeyman waiting in the wings. At least we will know where all your arguments will be going then.
Hillary has already done plenty of damage with the Libyan Movie Critic lie and her stumbling, blind, idiotic stint as Secretary of State. I wonder how many Ukrainians would vote for that harridan?
There is no reason to BLAME and point the finger. We just must deal with what is a large human tragedy the best that we know how and can. We've seen evidence that our leaders are not, so we must 'deal with it' without creating panic and THAT is a hard and fine line to balance.
Why so much defensiveness? There is a problem; we must solve it,
Oh my. We fight to make a country free. We fight to make a country embrace a democratic form of government. We fight to free a people so they can make their our national decisions - and yet you say it is Obama's fault that we did not condition their freedom on our interests?
You go you Iraqis. Enjoy your freedom, bye.
Obama walked into a set agreement for our departure. He faced a freely elected Iraqi government that would not agree to an equitable SOFA, (Status of Forces Agreement), yet it is entirely his fault that he did not coerce an agreement we want?
Whew! We will be lucky to survive until the next democrat candidate is elected. It is all Obama's fault.!
In the absence of ALL leadership's acknowledging that there is terrorism and making Mulligan Stew clear, organized defense against ISIS is difficult. Leadership is negligent in its responsibility to provide and protect and secure the future and safety of this nation. This is not just ISIS attacking abroad. We've had too many indicators that they're in our back yards to believe the cockamamie stories that these were from 'youtube videos', etc.
"Do You Think ISIS Will Attack Us Here In America?" I can't be more emphatic that they're already here. Sure, there's workplace violence, but 20 years ago, that workplace violence would be investigated and called what it is. Not a mentally ill army colonel in Ft. Hood, but a spade would be called a spade after the investigation. TERRORISM.
A grandmother just isn't beheaded instead of beinig shot or some other manner of homicide. Sure, there are copycat killers, but to do so in the name of religion,, gives one cause for pause. Now, we have an incident in neutral Canada. There are many who will say that there is no relation, that these are random acts of VIOLENCE. Some yes; but not all.
Americans should be demanding that the borders be closed (but these guys are shifty and could find a way around that). It's a bit like 'locking the barn door after the horse has escaped' but ISIS must know that if they try to engage America on it's own soil, the penalty will be worse than beheading. But, Americans must be UNITED in this approach that we are all against ISIS. Do you want to live in fear of being raped, or that they'll attack your local supermarket or base station; be in your home?
The beheadings got exactly the response they were looking for. Think about it.
The fact remains, despite the hype, people died at the hands of murderers and barbarism not known since Atilla. Feed it or not, the terrorists are here when they didn't need to pose a threat to our National Security.
And of course we are blameless and should be held harmless in all that we have done.
Of course we bear a deal of the blame and probably a good deal. But that doesn't mean we should sit idly by and watch our own innocents die, because we had some of the blame.
I speak of innocents here, in UK, Canada, Libya. No one is really admitting that the Fort Hood massacre, the shootings at UV, the beheadded grandmother, the Boston Marathon killers, the embassy in Libya killings are Al Quaeda, lone goofbals or ISIS spin-offs or ISIS. But they are TERRORISTS.
BUT until we call them by whom/what they are, TERRORISTS, we have NO CHANCE of of diminishing their power to invoke fear into the fiber of people's being. It has been a tenant that is proven to be true ONCE IT WAS GIVEN A NAME-EVEN A LAME ONE to be a threat to our national security. Anything that threatens the American people=a threat to American National Security.
What do you mean when you say it didn't need to be a threat to our national security?
What did I say was a not a threat to our national security. ANYTHING that poses a threat to nat security must be taken seriously and our people protected at al costs!.
Did I say something that made pole think that I thought otherwise?
Oops, I guess I misunderstood your point. What exactly is the national security threat you allude to?
What is the national security threat to which I refer? Have an hour? There's the threat of ISIS on American soil, on Canadian soil, there's the threat that if we don't strangle extremism and call it terrorism when it raises it's head here (for instances, the grandma who was beheaded). TERRORISM. Granny may have been a copycat killing but one look at Facebook pages tells you that there was a loose screw somewhere.
ANYTHING that threatens the safety of the American people and their security, threatens the national security of the US and must be dealt with as such by the people we elect to lead us. Sadly, it is not and ISIS is but one result.
Ps, this was originally a response to the thread discussion about NATIONAL SECURITY
ISIS is not Al Qaeda, ISIS has a long vision. It is intent on enlarging and consolidating its power and influence in the Muslim Middle East. Al Qaeda is regaining operational strength in the shadow of ISIS. In the mean time The Muslim Brotherhood may be out in Egypt but Libya is a basket case thanks to angry film critics. It isn't ISIS coming to America that should worry Americans. What should worry Americans, and the world, is that Obama has two more years to work even more magic.
OMG! Is there any threat to our interests that you won't blame on Obama?
For instance; I supported Bush's Iraq war, but now believe I was wrong because our idealistic, (giving the benefit of the doubt), actions have facilitated what we see happening today.
You know, that old canard about unintended consequences.
Still, your documented insistence that everything is Obama's fault just cries out for some sort of real proof that the POTUS acts without any input from his advisers, or at least some proof that he has ignored all of his adviser's advice.
Don't you think that, for a sense of the "Big Picture," some of the issues you disagree with were inherited issues, and not solely new initiatives by POTUS?
GA, I just read your response about "is there any threat to our interests that is not Obama's fault," I don't know to whom that was 'aimed,' but we're way past the point where playing the blame game does anything. We can learn from history; but the blame game, no matter who plays, does NOTHING (accomplishes) nothing! We don't have time or the luxury to play it and it is as useful as tits on a bull.
For some reason, partisan politics raised it's ugly head in a discussion in which politics has no business being involved. What good could they ever accomplish in a matter like ISIS?
Annie I am lost. On one hand I agree with you, but on the other, I could not disagree more. You are right, we need to get past the blame game and look for solutions instead. But, this conversation is all about politics, and those ardent Obama bashers are lost to the realities of what is.... in today's world.
I disagree with the policies of Obama and his administration most of the time, but I see that no earthly good can come from from disagreement or agreement with those policies here and casting the shadow of blame; especially during this discussion.
This discussion should be one of thinking people about the problem that was raised in the question title, not a discussion of the political virtues or non-virtues that exist.
That one concerns me,too. We must secure our borders (but no, we're told-sic-that they are. But the, that'll be securing ISIS in. But they're chameleons!
Religion is not "causing this". If it were that simple, all muslims everywhere would be behaving as ISIS is.
The problem with ISIS is being caused by PEOPLE; more specifically, people who are choosing to use their religious texts as an excuse to murder, torture, and defile as they please. Most Muslims strongly disapprove of the actions and scriptural interpretations of these radicals.
To shift the blame to religion itself is a cheap cop-out. It takes the blame away from the people who deserve it and places it on something nebulous. A killer can be religious, but its the gun or sword in his hand that does the killing, not his religion. Religion isn't holding a gun to his head, forcing him to kill. He is choosing to.
Trying to pin the actions of ISIS on religion (regardless of however whacked its interpretation of Islam is) is like blaming a nasty car crash on "fate" or "bad luck" instead of the distracted driver who swerved into oncoming traffic.
The track record through history is not that religion spontaneously creates wars. Rather, it's that people start wars and then use their religion as an excuse to justify it.
Take the crusades for example: despite obvious religious differences, Europe didn't have a problem with the Ottomans...until select Ottoman groups decided to invade European countries and the Holy Land, massacre the citizens thereof, and force survivors to convert to Islam at the point of a sword. The invasion was the cause of hostilities, not Islam itself. Religion was merely the justifying excuse to actions that those people chose to take (and look how many died because them).
Uff da! Sorry if that sounded "ranty"!
Poor defenceless USA, cowering in fear.
Actually armed to the teeth with a massive worldwide Empire and attacking other countries.
No wonder it incites hatred against Americans.
I agree with what you have said. (Except for this comment in there, " Religion has caused more wars and conflicts than anything else on earth." I am not sure why people say that when they do.)
I think education is key also, learning more about them and their beliefs.
America will not kill off ISIS as the group is created by USA like Al Qaeda. It will not help the USA with the third world war they are planning. The Middle East is the one and only agenda on the USA's mind at the moment.
USA are running out of resources fast and need to keep the turmoil in the Middle East ongoing by supplying terrorist groups with weapons so that they can get at Iran and other surrounding Muslim countries in the name of 'democracy' when USA doesn't even have it in their country!
Policing the world while USA goes to the sewers.
USA and most of the European countries are run and governed by Israel which is the New World Order plan by Zionists. Look at the all the powers at the top of the financial chain. They are all Jews (Zionists). The world is getting worse and nothing will stop it from getting worse. They also have managed to get all the terrorist activity blamed on Muslims. False Flags all round.
This statement is completely bogus. You obviously missed this forum post:
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/43097?p … ost2697414
The US is hardly running out of resources, a tiny bit of reading would confirm that.
Yes I do. Which is one of the reasons I started a thread asking that those who pray... pray. Isis is being funded a million dollars a day in black market oil dealings. They have made 20 million dollars this year alone from kidnapping ransoms. They have up to 50,000 soldiers. They are like Ebola... seems a bit scary til it hits your soil, then it's terrifying. We need a great and mighty God on our side. If we are not praying now... we surely will be soon enough.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/1 … 59239.html
Beth, I respect your religious beliefs, so I will put aside that part of your comment, and just say. Yes! I agree. We need to confront ISIS now, while we can do it on their soil and not our own.
OK, I failed. Aren't they following their God too? Is your edit edit edit edit edit...... (picture me forcefully withdrawing my hands from the keyboard)
Interestingly enough... The Shinar ppl, after the great flood, were the ppl of Babel. God told them to scatter, but they didn't. They stayed and built a fortified city and then began building the tower of Babel... a great affront to my God as they were going to use it to worship heavenly bodies... idols.
There is one poster especially, on the religious forum who continuously asks how a loving God could wipe out a ppl. He did it with the flood when Gen 6:5 says, "The LORD saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time."
God did it again with Sodom and Gomorrah.
Now... while some may wonder how a loving God could take this action... I see a God who knows the past, present and future. He knows the depravity, the evil in men's hearts and he knows how far they will go. Isis must be destroyed or at the very least... scattered. God knows what He's doing. We are just silly little ants, throwing our opinions around, but we are loved little ants nonetheless.
The land of Babel that I spoke of is modern day Iraq. And yes. They most certainly do have their own god(s), but they do not yet know my God. They will.
Ok Beth, give it up. This is not a religious forum thread - it is about the dangers of ISIS. I do not believe as you do, and am not qualified to respond to religious-based rationalizations.
But I still luv ya, so moving right along...
You have missed the point GA.
While we all want to talk about Isis... or any topic; we discuss it in our own frames, but we are still discussing the same picture.
Just b/c I see God in this picture and you do not, does not mean I cannot speak freely. I was not trying to make this a "religious post". You simply saw the word "God" and reacted. If a woman responded to this and said, "I hate Isis, b/c of how they mistreat women." Then that is the perspective from which she's viewing the topic... as a woman.
If a soldier viewed it and said, "Nuke em all!" That would be his perspective, b/c he is a trained fighter.
I am a Christian. My response is to pray... it's ok for me to say that. Don't be afraid... don't let anger or fear be your first reaction to a post made by someone of faith... that is simply the perspective with which they are viewing the topic.
Beth, you have carried this to a place never intended. I think my answer to this would be the same as the one above to your other response.
I did not criticize your belief, or your answer to the question posed. I simply replied that I thought the ISIS OP was not a religious forum question.
I must admit that your two responses to my comments have caused me to pause and reconsider my perspective. I did not intend, (nor do I think I did), criticize your belief, or the religious context of your responses. My view of my responses is that I pointed to the fact that the question of ISIS as a threat to our homeland is a real threat that is not conditioned by any religious belief.
I am sorry that you misinterpreted my comments. I think your interpretation of my comments was wrong, but the fact that you made them means I was less than clear. My apologies.
We're totally good GA. And I do believe that you are usually quite respectful to ppl of faith. I think we are all on the same page and as you said... moving on.
Ok then, one last question. Judging by your immediate responses, I am inclined to assume you are either in the Eastern Time zone, or are a "night owl," because I usually don't start my forum participation until 9 or 10pm my time. which is also "Martini Time!" (after the rest of the house has gone to bed)
Thanks for for your participation in these forums.
Consider the founders of Islam, Buddhism and Christianity. Which one was a bloody handed conqueror who taught his murdering, brutal followers to to lie to, subjugate, convert and kill any who did not accept the power of the true faith. Here is a hint - he neither meditated beneath nor was nailed to a tree.
You have heard of the Crusades haven't you?
It pains me to have to agree with the essence of your responses when your rhetoric is so obviously biased.
If one ignores the obvious bias, (vitriol), of your comments there is much to discuss, but it is your blind adherence to "talking points" rhetoric that diminishes your credibility.
Actually controlling our land borders would be such a grand effort . . . so simple, yet so rejected. Why is that?
Great comment GA. People trying to push their religious beliefs on others is one of the main reasons we have the problems we have in the middle east. It is why the Native American people were destroyed. Christians and Muslims both think they are right. As long as religion is in the picture we will never have peace.
Did you ever see the movie about the alien Paul. I wish this would happen to everyone in the world that thinks their religion is the right one. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we suddenly learned that all religions were wrong. And it was proved to them. It would be a wonderful world then.
My very good friends are Native Americans and love God with all their hearts.
Native Americans were horribly mistreated by the Catholic church. African Americans have been horribly mistreated by whites (and other groups)... women and children have been horribly mistreated by men. But not all those who call themselves Believers are bad. Not all whites are bad, and not all men are bad. Do not lump us all together please. And please do not say that I should not be allowed to share my voice on a topic that matters a great deal to me, just b/c you do not have the same perspective. It is ok to disagree respectfully.
I address this point of your comment, the rest is beside the point...
"...And please do not say that I should not be allowed to share my voice on a topic that matters a great deal to me, just b/c you do not have the same perspective. It is ok to disagree respectfully...."
Ok, we need to take a step back and look again. I did not intend to silence you or set parameters on your right to state your beliefs. And I thought I was being very respectful of your beliefs.
I thought I was clear on that but apparently I wasn't. I did not intend to imply any believers are bad, or wrong, (OK, yes, I do believe ISIS believers are wrong), or that you should not reply based on your beliefs.
My intention was to state that I could only address the issue in non-religious context because my beliefs are not the same as yours. ISIS is a real threat to the citizens of the United States regardless of religious beliefs.
You have every right to share your thoughts. I believe very much in the Great Spirit. Everyone has the right to say what they think. I just think that religion has caused a lot of the world's problems. Can you imagine a world like ours if it was proved there was no God at all. That is all I was saying.
But what if we "suddenly" learned that all atheist beliefs were wrong and there really is a deity, (deities)?
I am not sure. And you cannot prove to me that you have reason to be sure.
Nothing would surprise me at this point.
I'm sure you don't mean to be disrespectful of the lives that have been taken. But I wish no one would ever post, produce or broadcast a picture like this one ever again. In my mind it is aiding and abetting our enemy.
It will not surprise me at all to see an attack happen over here. It is just a matter of when. They do not understand that when ISIS does something like that is just fuels the fire of the U.S. people and other people wanting to go after them.
Ok I'll bite. Is it our government cutting the heads off the people ISIS is beheading and showing videos of.
ISIS is attacking us; they're taking shots and deeper shots and then when the time is right, a full-blown attack will be launched. They despise our way of living and because of that, they despise us. They would rather die in the name of THEIR faith than see Christians, Jews, Hindis and all other largely loving/peaceful religions succeed.
ISIS will attack the US and Obama will deny they are terrorists and deny the are Islamists as he has done in the past.
He will also blame others for his failure to stop them.
Oh yes the Obama Boogeyman has struck again. He must be the reason why they attack us. He is the closet Muslim that is enhancing their efforts to kill or convert all the Christian infidels in this country. Get a grip man and look for a solution instead of blame. I will agree with you that blame is considerably less fatiguing and accountable.
And once that Muslim extremist in America decapitates someone or shoots up an Army Base we can label it work place violence. Obama couldn't bring himself to call the attack in Ottawa, Terrorism. Perhaps you should try to hand out Bibles in Grand Rapids, Michigan before you talk about Islam in America.
Given the recent attacks in Oklahoma, Ottawa and New York City it sounds so silly to object to talking about Muslim terror in the US. Obama chokes on the word terrorism, too often. The solution is a modernization of Islam that is vigorously resisted by many Muslims. A modernization that good liberals refuse to talk about. Obama is full of blame and hate for his political opponents here, probably because they are preventing him from getting a pony. Obama isn't so hateful toward the murderous and violent "religion of peace."
Oh yes the liberals did it! They want the Muslim terrorists to take over! They contribute to their temples so there can be beheadings in the shopping malls!. Your arguments go the same way no matter the content. Obama the boogeyman and the liberals drive you nuts. Just wait till Hillary gets in. Oh wait it will still be the same conversation with nothing new to add.
This reminds me of a repeated theme in General Norman Schwarzkopf's book about the first Iraqi war.
Throughout the book the point that the Arab coalition nations would not accept being seen as attacking a brother Arab was obvious.
Even regarding Saddam's occupying forces in Kuwait. Saudi Arabia and other Arab nations agreed to fight with Coalition forces to expel Saddam's forces from Kuwait, but they drew the line at advancing into Iraq's borders - thus attacking an Arab brother. Syria and Egypt both contributed forces to expel Iraq from Kuwait, and celebrated their victories, but both halted their forces at the Iraqi border. They refused to enter Iraqi territory.
It is a very deeply ingrained Arab cultural thing - all Arabs are brothers. You may not like your brothers actions, but you won't disown or attack them beyond defending your own interests.
That is a cultural conundrum the U.S. fails to recognize.
Everything you said is true. rtief2000 Shame how many people refuse to see what is happening. These are the same kind of people who said don't worry about the Nazi's because they are lead by a funny little man who wears his moustach like Charlie Chaplain. They refused to take his speeches and writings very seriously.
You mean Mrs."Iraqi Film Critics Killed My Ambassador" or Mrs. "Corporations Don't Create Jobs"
Either way she is a clown, a fool, an idiot and a monster.
and you will likely vote for her
When there is a fool in the White House and things go horribly wrong not blame can accrue to the powerful elected official in America who says "I have a phone and a pen." It is no surprise to those who would never vote for Obama - the least qualified man in any room - or Hillary that they continue to prove themselves unfit for any office, because they are clowns, fools, idiots and monsters.
The best way to not repeat a disaster is to acknowledge that disaster and identify ALL of its root causes. The lion's share of that acknowledgement belongs to the Executive "Orderer" in Chief.
My vote depends upon the candidate and not the ideology nor party. If the GOP wants my vote this round they had better come up with something better than that nimrod McCain or another corporate sellout such as Romney. By the way I voted for George Bush twice because Gore was an idiot and Kerry a flat out liar. If the GOP wants to win they better come up with someone better than Billary or else much of the country will go the same way. You seem to forget about the Independents that usually decide the vote. If you forgot they are the ones in the middle because the other two are in the extreme.
You may pretend it is about the candidate and not his ideology, yet look at the results of your vote. Obama has been an unqualified disaster for everyone but the wealthiest Americans.
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorial … -class.htm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/1 … 19008.html
Yet you still think Romney was the corporate shill, as Obama continues reward his allies in the corporate world regardless of how many jobs they take to China - ie GE.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 … alism.html
http://www.westernjournalism.com/obama- … or-action/
You are completely wrong about the independents,
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2 … ent-really
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac … _blog.html
Romney won independents.
http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-ro … on-2012-11
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ … oters.html
The independent vote only matters when one cannot win his own base.
Romney did nothing solid to lock up his base and lost conservative Republican voters.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/ … _stay_home
http://www.ldjackson.net/why-voting-not … ervatives/
3 million fewer Republicans voted for Romney than McCain.
Most independents are more conservative than wishy washy, know it all, middle of the road wimps.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/01/21/2 … .html?rh=1
http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com … ative.html
http://www.iwf.org/blog/2431366/Indepen … nservative
Soundings from a loser warms the cockles of my heart. Your meanderings about the outcome is only proof your ideology and insights are just as wrong today as they were then. Good luck running that tired old played BS in two years because you will still be crying then as you do today. Hillary will take you by storm as you cry about it. Unfortunately you will not be the only loser as your ridiculous musings will yield the same results, not addressing the issues and crying about your loss again.
Where is Hillary in any of this posting? You are the one who touts the independent myth as if it were gospel truth. Apparently you are incapable of following along with an argument.
So let me type this slowly so you can understand.
Independents are becoming more conservative and breaking more toward Republican positions on the most pressing issues - economics and national defense. The Democrats prove, everyday, their inability to effectively address either of those issues.
Your beloved Hillary is a sham hiding in her husband's shadow. Her incompetence as Secretary of State precipitated the resurgence of an aggressive Russia, the foolish identification of "The Arab Spring" as a democracy movement and all the lies about the brutal murder of an American Ambassador.
She has no good history on which to run, so she will run on her ovaries as the primary qualification for the most powerful chief executive in the world. She is shrill, angry and not that bright. It is quite unlikely she will win the nomination and she will not be the next President.
She lacks all of the detachment Obama has shown, so she can never be mistaken as cool. Though she has the ruthless dedication of the dying old media, it is the new media where the battle for the majority of voters will be fought. Liberal cable news is about to die as a revolution in communication is in full swing. CNN and MSNBC can no longer rely on corralled cable subscriptions for their capital injections.
Delude yourself with your own silly notions of the past you like to dredge up, then deny the same, "Romney is a corporate shill," indeed. You are stuck in a faulty loop that is gobbling up your world and you cannot even see it.
You are just becoming comical at this point. You have too many prejudices to be taken seriously. Labeling positions seems to be a game for you. The problem with that is you respond to stereotypes and not dialog. I must say you are a lot of fun responding to the distortions you relay without much thought required on your part. You are a legend in your own mind.
I love it when you type slowly.
I wish you would write a book.
rhamson, Why so much fuss over retire2000 political ideology.? What does political ideology have to do with the price of tea in China, with this discussion about whether or not ISIS is going to come to the US? Sure, we have learned from the past ideologies what has worked, when and why and in what kind of climate, and policies. But what does political ideology have to do with ISIS being anywhere, other than the political policies and ideologies over the years that allowed them to come to be?
As far as those political policies and ideologies, all we can do is learn from that history and hope not to repeat the mistakes of the past. We still need to see ISIS as what it is, a CURRENT threat to the national security of this country and other countries. We need to figure out what to do about the threat. I say 'we' because our leaders aren't. I for one do not want to spend the rest of my life looking over my shoulder on the way to the market, gym or dentist.
The political solution has to come from them. They are the ones who must decide if they wish to live in terror and fear or confront and vanquish those that continue in it. As far as us feeling secure here how do you suggest it can happen. Somehow you think we can fight a guerilla war with our big clumsy methods on conventional warfare. They will merely hunker down and wait to come out when the time is ripe. That is the only security you can accept trying to fight somebody else's war. As far as retief, he is just a lot of fun.
Political schmitical! Yes, that war is THEIRS to win, lose or decide what to do with. It can involve their politics or not. But my point all along has been that when it begins to involve the US and US citizens as it has, we ARE involved, too; like it or not. As much as possible, we should ignore THEIR politics, but that isn't always possible. But when it comes to our involvement, the less political WE ARE, the more likely we are to prevail. "United we stand; Divided we fall..."
The ISIS crisis is something that we CANNOT thumb our noses at and ignore; we do that at our own peril.
You seem to think there is a separation between our politics and theirs. They are interwoven because we choose to interweave them. ISIS is the realization of a frame of mind. What you purport to do is change their mind through direct conflict. If you hit them with military action they will undoubtedly hit back. So because we are the great military superpower of the world and if we flexed our muscle on them strongly enough they will succumb is your answer. How well did that work in Vietnam? The communist devils are now our trading partners as is China who also funded the Korean War. How have the Afghans sought retribution from the Russians for their invasion? We just need to leave and let them work it out for themselves. Mind that you will always need to look over your shoulder because of the threat and that increases the longer we stay there.
The Obama boogeyman has blamed everything that has happens in his admin that has not gone the way he throughout it should-one someone else. WHAT makes you thin that things will be different?
I don't know. Maybe a functioning government to go with it. It takes some cooperation to get things done but we will re-elect another bunch of criminals to help finish off the next two years. Instead of blaming the Obama boogeyman for everything maybe the electorate could get their heads out of their butts and vote in some people who are there for our best interest.
And that is a prophesy that is entirely your opinion.
Other than disagreeing with Pres. Obama's actions as president, and your apparent dissatisfaction with his performance in office, do you have any facts to back such declarative statements as these?
We are better than them. We won't power down to their techniques. If we can be friends, we will all live happily after after.
N O T
"I think every member of ISIS should be hunted down and brought to justice. They are beheading people that are not agents of the governments in the countries they come from. They should be brought to justice and any country supporting ISIS should be dealt with and made to turn over any ISIS members. I fear if the US does not stand firmly that we will have many more 9-11's in our future."
This is an excellently appropriate viewpoint.
So, why has war ship-building production ceased in this country? Would Obama veto a bill concerning the rebuilding of our military?
I do and always have believed they would try at the very least. As I type this there is a hostage situation going on in Sydney, Australia which is by all appearances an ISIS attack. 13 people are being held hostage and two young girls were made to hold the ISIS banner in the front window of the shop by the suspects.
Thank God the Aussie's have very capable police tactical teams.
And relief2000 just as an aside, the French Foreign Legion also has a permanent presence in Djibouti as well as several other African nations like Liberia, Sierra Leon and Congo I believe. I know they have militarily intervened many times in Chad and elsewhere in Africa too.
But none of them are on the scale that we carried out in Iraq and still do in Afghanistan. The war machine is what fuels this and the GOP is chomping at the bit to ramp it back up as soon as they can. This country has been in a steady state of war since WWII. Korea soon followed then Viet Nam then Sudan then Lebanon then Bosnia-Herzegovina among all the little skirmishes such as Granada leading up to Kuwait and then onto Afghanistan and Iraq. Now we are also involved in Syria let alone all the air strikes in places such as Libya and the list goes on.
The point is that we have a humungous military with a huge budget let alone the stuff (wars) that are not even in the budget. We keep escalating everything and then sit back and point our fingers at the other side saying how wrong they are and how right we are. This is about money whether it is selling oil to China or exporting it for Canada. War is our vehicle to make things happen where we can't buy or place the government.
Yeah we have a real problem with them exporting and exploiting terror but we just feed into it with our handlers knowing there is incredible money in it.
If I believed as you do I would get out of the evil country I was in. Is Canada evil? How about Belize? How about Turks and Caicos? I could never live in a country so terrible, vicious, oppressive and evil. I am glad you have no problem with hypocrisy.
rhamson......Jesus WILL come and send all you demons back to the burning city of eternal damnation. YOUR hatred is what will get you there.
ISIS will attack America ,it has more a chance of doing so than Al Quada did , and you didn't think they would did you ?! Black market oil will guarantee that . They are already richer in dollars than most nations are . So they don't have the need of flying here , high jacking airliners and flying into the pentagon . They will buy their own airliners . !
I don't doubt that you are correct in assuming we will have some domestic repercussions whether local generated or imported. The question we should ask is how did we get here, why it continues and what can we do to change it?
Because - "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger."
Typical of you to avoid the charge with defaming others.
Wherever there is a Muslim majority in a country, the non-Muslim minority is second class, at best or set up, murdered, burned out or exterminate, at worst. East Timor exists because of Islam. Cyprus is a divided island for a reason. The last church in Afghanistan was burned years ago. The ancient Christian communities are fleeing to Kurdistan for a reason. The Christians of Bethlehem are moving into Israel for a reason. The Copts of Egypt have been murdered and their churches burned by Muslims. Try handing out Christian pamphlets on the streets of Dearborn, Michigan.
Try familiarizing yourself with history that extends beyond leftist propaganda.
I agree with you. I heard someone who is Muslim ask, why everyone thinks Muslims are Terrorist.
Well, because anytime you hear of any Terrorist, they are Muslim, and there is no one else. What can you think?
People defending the Terrorist needs to leave America. After all those defending them are the first ones to say disparaging things about America
It is because you are correct, the reason twits attack you
My friend , if you look at history, one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is that militant Islam has always severed the heads of the children and raped the women in their own neighborhoods , they have always used the tool of terrorism and they have always blamed Christianity for the ill's of the world ! Will they strike America , probably ! Orgaizations like that just loves to hate the big kind , sometimes dumb boy in the neighborhood [ America ], especially when the big boy has a vibrant economy , a strong peaceful military presence , and a media that bows down to the aggressors like ISIS, ISIL or whatever the latest name for pure evil , animalistic 'freedom fighter" , is today .
Or when the dumb big boy in the neighborhood has more than they can dream of having with their outdated way of life. Or when he has freedom - a freedom that ISIS subjects can only want but never have under the the terrorists.
My friend if you think that the Islamic militants are practicing religion you are sadly mistaken. As with our politicians who use whatever means (religion) at their disposal these criminals (terrorists) are about the same deception. They just take it to the extreme. They are about the brutality to flex their power. Our politicians are about the greed and how money does their muscle. Yes we are surely going to feel the militants Rath over here.
Could not agree more - the militants are about growing their power and not about religion.
True, they use religion - as a facade to entice the yokels to put on a bomb filled vest - but within the upper echelon it's all about power and control.
This argument implies a difference between religion and state, in Islam there is no difference. This separation is peculiar to far more modern notions of government and religion than the 7th century barbarity that is Islam.
You do know that the Saudis beheads criminals, 83 this year. It is in keeping with their religious beliefs, regardless of how that might trouble your little head.
I wouldn't want to trouble your closed mind to the fact that they are a sovereign state with their own freedoms and beliefs. Besides their government has not aggressively attacked us nor do we have the right to enforce our principles on their culture. With ours being a "gleaming" example of freedom how can we judge others. We put innocent people to death and incarcerate more than any other in the world let alone the billions that are poured into enforcing it. We spend more on "defense" than all the other worlds governments combined with the CIA torturing and moving captives around the world to avoid our own documents of "freedom".
Yes, 7th century beliefs.
What CIA torture? You mean the rough treatment that our own troops endure as part of special forces preparation? You mean the rough treatment that Khalid Sheikh Muhammad was subjected to? He is hale, healthy, strong, alive and enjoying his comfortable digs at Obama's Git-Mo, hardly the typical outcome of "torture."
The tortured part is the twisted ethics and mental gymnastics that the American left uses to turn America into the villain. Saudi Arabia is a kingdom with a nobility, many Saudi princess have financed terrorist operations - contributing to Bin Laden, Hamas, etc. Enjoy your limber thoughts.
It warms my heart that distortion is a part of your dillusions. Your Bin Laden reference was anticipated and laughably and predictable. Dream on with your acid tongued ridicule and insanity it represents. In case you don't get it Bin Laden is the new Hitler where all arguments die.
http://moroccantimes.com/2014/11/911-te … t-lessons/
http://syria360.wordpress.com/2013/09/1 … errorists/
I would have far less contempt for lefties if they bothered with a little less hatred for America, stopped embracing ignorance and didn't argue by contradiction, alone. Bin Laden was a real, living, contemporary person who engineered the slaughter of thousands of Americans with the financial assistance and operational support of his fellow Suadis - including members of the Royal Family who are the government of Saudi Arabia - it is a monarchy.
That's their intent, their goal and they'll stop at nothing at achieving their goal. They're already hear, Americans are 'joining their ranks (for reasons I could never understand0. The poor misguided souls who will do the bidding of ISIS and then be tossed out by ISIS. I think only the higher ups in this 'organization' (use this loosely) reap any rewards there might be to gain. Annie
While I don't condone terrorism or violence as a means to evoke change I can see where many are disenchanted with the American Dream. I believe a poll suggested that it is close to 35% who have admitted that the American Dream is not possible. This was across many different socioeconomic levels.
What? Just what? Would that have to do with ISIS/ISIL militants, with Muslim terrorists of any group? Disgruntlement with the notion of the 'American Dream' is all about the economy and lack of growth in legit Americans on their own. The vast majority of Americans are NOW on the welfare dole!!!!!!!!! What do you think they would say in a poll? Do you think they even know what the American Dream was or is or could be?
.....The vast majority of Americans are NOW on the welfare dole!!!!!!!!!.....
Can you come up with some data to substantiate this claim.
"If you use those who are supported by Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF)--best described as a federal largess to indigent families with dependent children--as stated by the Dept. of Health the data suggests 1.7% of the total population that derive over 50% of their income from Welfare supports."
"The number stated that receive any portion of their support from from welfare assistance--including food stamps--it is 29,900,000 or roughly 8% of the total population in the United States"
This breaks down to:
* 39% white 11,661,000 of 29,900,000 recipients
*38% black 11,362,000 of 29,900,000
*17% Hispanic 5,083,000 of 29,900,000
"The strictest sense of the term though would be those getting income directly from the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services which is about 8% of the total population that receives some form of assistance and 1.7% that receive most of their income (50% or more) from these programs."
"Programs like unemployment insurance or social security payments can technically be counted as "welfare" in some instances though they are differentiated from federal programs like TANF or food stamps."
http://www.answers.com/Q/What_percentag … on_welfare
If you add it all up maybe 8.7% on the government dole? That doesn't sound like a whole lot based on most receiving 50% from the government. When you consider there are approximately 6% on unemployment with maybe another 5% who have given up on a job it is very little especially when compared to other countries. What you should be more concerned with is the waste and sweetheart deals that Congress spends billions and billions on. I agree it is far easier to pick on the poor as they can't relate to your summation of their plight.
I;m not picking on the poor and downtrodden.I am one of them. I am stating facts that nearly 50% of Americans receive government assistance-right or wrong. I can see how, if I didn't know that it was this powerful, that being on the 'receiving end' can induce entitlement culture.
"I agree it is far easier to pick on the poor as they can't relate to your summation of their plight." Where in the heck did that come from? Last I could tell, you weren't me. Besides being untrue (I'm one of the poor recipients of government assistance and I summarize my plight, have an insight into my plight all day, every day and see the world through glasses that summarize the plight of the poor quite well.
I disagree with the statement about what I SHOULD be more concerned with. I'll be concerned with whatever I darn well please, and I and millions of Americans feel that the economy and jobs are trump what we should concern ourselves with.
Either you are confused or have not been clear in your summation is it:
....1.7% of the total population that derive over 50% of their income from Welfare....
As in your earlier statement or is it:
....stating facts that nearly 50% of Americans receive government assistance....
In your answer to my response. The two are totally different.
The question WASN'T what percentage of the national debt.. thflect the nation workin unemployment was. Instead from my centrist
? Stats that even the liberal networks report. A fact. There has never ever been so many on the dole.
Stats that the former poster could not prove! You should get away from the emotion of the issues and investigate the truth. By doing so you may find common ground and solutions rather than derision through animosity.
Is this what you're looking for? https://www.americanprogress.org/issues … -benefits/
Search hard enough and you can find anything to support your thinking. However the facts bare out that more people participate in entitlements that ever before according to the OMB figures: figure #3 (OMB)
However, that said, we've gone severely off track; this post was about ISIS being in America or COMING to America. We should talk about them
I see much to agree with your link but the percentage of the poor or so called poor take up a very little amount of the budget when you consider the enormity of the general budget. The raiding of the SS and Medicaid funds in the general fund has caused the dip in our available assets in the future. The military budget and waste associated with its spending is also criminal.
As far as ISIS we will be attacked here eventually and some attacks will be small and others severe. We refuse to deal with the situation from a objective viewpoint. We take each attack as they did this to us so we must retaliate worse on them to make them stop. Whether it is us, Israel, Egypt or anyone else it is all retaliatory and just continues through the ages. Until we can reach a saturation point and have some sort of change of heart to be conciliatory instead of controlling, there will be no change. We have raised three or four generations of Palestinians under this catastrophe. They know of nothing different.
You really think conciliation is the answer to stopping attacks from a group whose stated goal is to wipe us from the face of the earth?
Agreed. It works.
Although I doubt you will get many corpses to agree it was the best choice for them...
Liberals tend to flock to those who have precious little value for humanity. They love Castro. They loved Che', Stalin, Mao, Musollini, Hitler and so on. They tend not to understand that conflict does not subside but becomes broader and more violent. The confrontation they avoid today becomes the international conflict to be talked away only to return as a world wide war to claim millions of lives - all in the name of a peace that would have been far less expensive in lives and treasure if the initial confrontation had been less conciliatory and more robust.
Always the same rant. War, war, war. It does an economy well.
Did I say total conciliation. If we want to talk about extreme actions that is what we have now. The funny part is that you have bought into the warrior mentality as the only solution for capitulation. Where has that gotten us so far?
Well, we're still alive. We haven't been forced into Islam. We are still free to believe as we wish. Our young girls still go to school. Women drive a car, and aren't stoned for not being virgin. We still govern ourselves rather than a religious fanatic doing it for us.
IMO, that's enough reason to resist. If "conciliation" doesn't mean giving these things up as ISIS demands, what DOES it mean?
We need to be prepared to fight for the right to cook and eat bacon!
Muhammad Atta says, "DIE WESTERN INFIDEL DOG!"
You say, "Golly, can't we just talk about this, openly like two adults, I hate Israel, too, that should count for something, I will even make it illegal to pass bible pamphlets out on the streets of Dearborn, make my soldiers stop wearing crosses, add Muslim radicals to every agency, teach about Islam in schools, ban Christianity from the schools, make restaurants stop serving pork, and did I mention hating Israel. Golly, do you like me now with my open dialog and butt kissing and such?"
Muhammad Atta says, "DIE WESTERN INFIDEL DOG"
You publish a story in the stupid media stating that there is a wonderful open dialog and that genius John Kerry, Sec of St, is following the prior genius Hillary into the great tomorrow of open dialog and everything is coming up roses and only the Republican dominated Congress can screw things up now those evil christian fundamentalist racist homophobic islamophobic zionist stooges and capitalist running dogs.
OPEN DIALOG, WORKING, SAYS WHITE HOUSE.
BRILLIANT! Say the weak limp wirsted leftist twits.
Muhammad Atta says, "Allah Hu Akbar!" as he detonates a suitcase nuke in Time Square on New Years eve or dives an airliner into the Indian Ocean or cuts the head off an itinerant journalist in the Syrian desert or smashes a New York City Transit Cops head in with an ax or decapitates a grand mother in Oklahoma or runs over a soldier in Ottawa or dons his finest Muslim robes and guns down unarmed(by Bill Clinton) soldiers at Fort Hood!
The dialog has been closed for decades, time to open some graves, fill them with Muslim extremists (or is that reformers) soak the ground in hogs blood and leave the graves unmarked.
There will never be peace with Islam until Jews out number Muslims.
You seem to understand the whole thing as religious and that is where you ere. It is all about the politics and our heavy handed approach has done what? Inflame it to where you believe a fallacy that sets you up for your own destruction. Just as the David Koresh's and Jim Jones of the so called Christian persuasion led so many down the path to destruction so are the Mullahs and Chiefs in Afghanistan and Iraq are leading their flocks down the same path. You think you know it but you are lost in the semantics. What a shame, all that knowledge wasted on bias and ignorance.
Some contend that this all stems from the power hungry West attacking the poor Muslims? Paris!
Some say it has been going on from the beginning, you are right. It has been going on since the beginning of Islam. Wherever Islam shares a region with non-Muslim there is blood.
Some say it is the American military that is the problem. Apparently that has been true since 1801 when the United States refused to allow the Muslim Barbary States to continue enslaving American sailors.
It is a very old problem and some are incapable of understanding that.
Very good! But as usual way off the topic. Have a nice day.
P.S. Do your delusions keep you awake at night?
A clear understanding that observant Islam is the genuine threat should keep everyone up at night. Americans can sleep well knowing that "The Voice" and the "Superbowl" will go on despite the flight of Jews from France or the threat of internet recruited nut ball, Muslim loaners killing the innocent in the US.
Great. Already done. And the reply is "Live as we tell you to or die". Personally I go along with the "Give me liberty or give me death", thus I will fight to maintain what I wish as a way of life.
Really?!?! When did "we" start to tell them that? Aren't the Saudis living as they would rather than as "we" would have them live? Some cling to the absurd notion that America and the West are to blame, when the root cause of the conflict between Islam and EVERYONE else is Islam. One need do no more than pursue a tiny bit of education to discover that Islam cannot coexist with any other system unless it is in the clear minority. What happened to the Zoroastrians? The umma must encompass the world, just ask.
You make no sense while you are on your Islam tantrum. You marginalize and automatically make an enemy that is not there. Terrorism is not the mission of Islam. Terrorism is the the result of power over others. Bigotry is a negative aspect of what you propose and serves only to escalate distortion and not progress.
Familiarity with Islam would inform the liberal's absurd opinion. Unalloyed Islam is all about bringing the entire world into the sphere of Islam. It is actual, observant Islam that teaches the subjugation of women and the destruction of all societies that do not adhere with Islamic principles. For Muslims to live in harmony with Western society, they must eschew the tenants of Islam.
Liberals cannot accept reality and un-deconstructed Islam is hostile to the modern world, clearly demonstrating, yet again, that liberalism is a deadly dangerous mental disorder.
I have a question for your assumptions. What percentage of the worlds Islamic population consists of radical violence? Careful now..........
What a well thought out and clearly phrased question!
Careful, 16% of 1.4 BILLION people is more than a sufficient number to win a world war.
Perhaps you should ask the beheaded Japanese national if ISIS is about Jihad or just irritated with America.
Extreme inaction is a more apt description. There are many more actions between the barely moving that Obama and the rest of the cowardly Social Democrat West so love and extreme action, ask the survivors of Dresden or Hiroshima. Obama is not alone in is diplomatic indolence, GWB had an opportunity to dispatch hundreds of Taliban fighters at a funeral and declined it.
War is a diplomatic tool to attain lasting peace, Japan, Italy, Germany, Great Britain and Spain all serve as examples to what can be obtained through the judicious use of extreme action.
All Obama, and the rest of the indolent Social Democrats, has done is squander precious military resources for no gain. Brilliant.
RHamson, "...As far as ISIS we will be attacked here eventually" I can't believe I let that get buy! That complacency is what is causing our downfall as a nation That's apathy, basically saying, I;m rolling over and playing dead with my head in the sand! Let's play ostrich.
Do you really want to live your life looking over the other shoulder and being afraid to go to the store or mow your lawn or take out the garbage for fear of ISIS coming after you or yours?
We have no choice but to get them before they get us, because they prey on that kind of apathy and attitude.
"We refuse to deal with the situation from a objective viewpoint. " What are we going about it?? If we insist on electing leaders who WON'T mount that objective response, who see more value in getting reelected than the good they can do in DC for 2-4 years we get what we deserve-. Being a peace-nik is admirable at times: but THIS AIN'T ONE OF THEM. I think I'd be ashamed of the 'if you can't be 'em, join 'rm sttitufe' This is the time to do something about it, take a stand, not be weak like our POTUS is..
Lots of good points but the devil is in the details. How do you propose to enact all the things you say that will avert the inevitable?
I'm not a legislator in the position of enacting, but sitting on my hands and laying back in the posture of waiting for something to happen to me, ISN'T the answer. I do write my legislators. There is a threat and I believe that the first step in dealing with that threat is ACKNOWLEDGING that it exists. We get the world and American people on board. If we don't deal with it, we do so at our own peril.. We don't deal with that threat at our own peril.
Examples of things we can do- off the top of my head? We should support countries who have more direct fights against ISIS, like Syria. We don't release more hostages from GITMO (campaign promise or no champagne promise).
We don't negotiate w/ terrorists, Terrorist must know that WE call the shots
WE must call terrorism, just what it is: TERRORISM, not radial extremism or any number of euphemisms. We must all get together behind that and call a spade a spade.
We must close our borders for obvious reasons. Despite statements to the contrary, THEY ARE NOT CLOSED, they're plenty porous.
There needs to be meted out swift justice to anyone convicted of a terrorist crim. If you hurt the US or citizens of the US, YOU PAY AND THE WORLD KNOWS IT.
We toughen up our stance on gun rights and allow the citizens to arm themselves and not make it a crime to open carry, as it is in many states.
Arming ourselves is a right guaranteed to us by the 2nd amendment.
Those are just a few of the things that we've had the opportunity to do, but for some reason, it hasn't been deemed necessary. We've been soft on crime.
How has writing your legislators improved the situation? How has Washington not acknowledged the threat? How do you get the world and American people on board? What do you call dealing with it? Writing our legislators? How did we deal with 911 when we were at peril prior to the event?
How should we help Syria anymore than we have? Is giving them weapons and training the answer? Who's side are they on anyway? Are you speaking of the rebels that hated America before the conflict started in Syria? We helped Iraq and withdrew only to have ISIS spring up and now are using the weaponry we provided the Iraqi army. Good plan huh? How do we bring the prisoners in GITMO to justice when we can't even try them? Should we just execute them? That will go over well with the rest of the world won't it?
What do we do if we don't negotiate with the people who are doing us harm? Invade other countries to take them out? Or maybe we just drone them to death and to hell with the collateral damage. Terrorists know that we will deal with them eventually. Our hands are tied with International laws that protect them and they use our laws against us.
Who do you want to acknowledge the term terrorist? Is your meaning that all Muslims are extremists because it can only go that way if you take this tact. I notice you were very careful to not say the obvious but that is where your statement leads us.
How are you to get the borders secure? I forgot! You are going to write a letter.
So invading foreign countries or bombing them or drone strikes are what you are providing for swift justice to terrorism? And you want to do it big enough so the world knows it?
So we arm ourselves like they did in the wild west to protect ourselves is your answer to more gun rights. Scare the hell out of anybody before they attack you. How many innocent lives would be lost by these gun toting citizens? All this so that your rights are observed? There are about 300 million fire arms registered in the USA, how is that impeding gun ownership?
http://www.gunfaq.org/2013/03/how-many- … ed-states/
There are approximately 1 for every 100 people in prison or jail in the USA. What do you think is an appropriate amount that would better make a harder stance on crime? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcerat … ted_States
I liked your points more than your analysis. Your talking points say nothing towards making a change. Writing letters shows you have a trust in the system you criticize so vehemently. I do not trust the system nor the legislators to fix the situation anytime soon. Maybe I should write a letter to somebody too and wait for the change to come that will not invite ISIS to attack us.
Good to see you in the forums Teamrn. Since I am butting into an exchange between you and rhanson, I hope you won't mind my intrusion.
It is obvious from your response that you feel very passionate about this topic, but I took away a different impression from rhanson's response than you apparently did.
I agree that ISIS will most probably attack the U.S., and as rhanson stated, it may be a small or large scale event. But contrary to you, I do not think this admission is sticking my head in the sand. I think it is the reality of the times.
I think it is great that you let your legislators know how you feel - at least you are participating, but without the denigration that rhanson implied, I would offer that your letter alone is probably inconsequential. Better to grab a few like-minded friends and get them to write too. And the more local, (ie. district Rep. vs. senator), the legislator - the more impact your letters will have.
side bar: from a congressman's office worker - "we notice when we get thousands of letters on a topic, or a call from district reps.")
As for your ideas for solutions... each is worth a thread of their own, but I will have a go at a couple of them...
You think we should support Syria now because of ISIS, when just prior to ISIS we were supporting Syrian rebels attempting to overthrow the government of Syria. How do you justify that? Do we support Syria until ISIS is annihilated and then go back to supporting the rebels again?
To be clear, I am all for sending every ISIS fighter to hell in a handbasket, (to hold the pieces), but how do we do that without becoming what they are?
As for the Gitmo reference - I think yours is a knee-jerk response, but that is a much deeper topic than can be addressed here, beyond saying I think you have more trust in what your government tells you than you should. What if a Gitmo resident was innocent from the git-go, (not saying any were), ie. being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Are you really in favor of indeterminate and unspecified detention - just because a government representative says so?
To the non-negotiating with terrorists, I completely agree, although I can see why the families of folks involved might desire a little flexibility.
You are also right that our borders are not yet secure - but surely you are not recommending an American version of the Berlin Wall?
Hey, as to the calling a spade a spade part - here is a ^5, (that's a high-five), I have no tolerance for PC euphemisms, but I think your passion would be better directed if it were tempered by a little more thought relative to the specifics. A spade isn't really always a spade. Sometimes it just looks like one - when really it is a club - ♣
Gun control points as an additional protection - really?
Hi GA, passion, yes For the country we all love, but some have taken for granted. I had another post which expressed my views more clearly (you've had those days, right?) and not as cheeky. As far as your entering a discussion, the more viewpoints the better!
We don't support Syria by arming the rebels for sure, but we can do targeted strikes using our special ops forces. Snd Navy SEALS
The admission of ISIS attacking the US is not what leads me to think that advocacy is for playing ostrich. It is the apathetic atttude, the almost 'well, if you can't beat 'em, join em' attitude.' The nothing has worked in the past, so we might as well not try EVER again.' Any number of similar sayings.' Sounds like the old self-fulfilling prophecy that I think is the downfall of too many. It is the reality of many and it is a reality of many in these times. But, that said, it doesn't have to be MY REALITY.and the sooner we all embrace that it will get us nowhere-fast, the better off we'll be, IMHO..If you read my quote of Michael J.Fox
One lone letter will not sway a vote, but I think you do a disservice to people who are inclined to write letters to vent their frustration. Again, from the inside, reps-no not reps themselves, but aides and interns will tell you that they do notice SWELLS and TRENDS in letter-writing. If rep 'x' receives thousands of letters to vote for 'y' or not to appropriate money-AT ALL from his Constituents and he is up for reelection, he's likely to take heed, if he's AT ALL concerned about doing his job.
My GITMO response is not knee-jerk and I'm not for detention of an indeterminate length. I'm assuming-and we have to start at a place where we assume that each detainee has been brought up charges or there's a good reason for detention. I assume that everyone has done as good a job as they should in determining that the prisoners have violated the law or there is reasonable suspicion that they have and that releasing them to known ISIS safe haven in prisoner swaps is not in our best interest. No, I'm not for detention just because a government rep says so, but because people IN THE KNOW have determined that they have ties to ISIS or AQ or Hamas or any number of terror cells.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'families of those involved' means. You actually are concerned what Mom and Pop of the Boston Marathon bombers feel? I know that sounds harsh and I do care what they feel, but when I think of the ruined and lost lives of WTC and BM boombines, the double amputee who will never walk again, suddenly the feelings of the parents of the bombers lose a little significance and I adjust my perspective.
No, I'm not advocating that we build another Berlin Wall or a Great Wall of China, but I am for containing our borders, not making it as easy to scoot across or definitely not for saying they're secure and tight when we all know that thousands crossed illegally last summer and fall and flooded our cities, threatening the health of US citizens. Hardly humanitarian.as they refugees where yarded up in conditions of squalor and disease.
Calling a spade a spade is an old figure of speech, the use of which is apparently causing problems, but terrorism is best fought when everyone knows and agrees is is terrorism, when the three has been identified and then we have something inn common. We've identified the same threat. But for some reason, our leaders cling to this notion that NOT calling them what they really are, by saying that the war ofn terror is an overseas consistency operation (about the only thing that Sean Hannity says that I completely agree with.) You can're rally people if their rallying cry is muffled and distorted.
I only brought up gun control because it was brought up before me, but self-defense has a place in this discussion and we're guaranteed the right to defend ourselves. We must be responsible in using guns and that fact is evident by fact that as gun ownership has gone UP , gun violence has gone DOWN,
Annie and good to see you!
I feel the American dream is possible, there are a lot of things right now that pose a barrier, but with hard work, it IS possible. In other countries, that kind of dream isn't always possible, so if those disenchanted are leaving because they see a better life elsewhere, I wish them luck. The grass isn't always greener.
Do they actually think that life with ISIS will be their dream? Common sense will tell you that this 'gang' doesn't have dreams like that on it's mind. They may dream of 100 virgins and unfortunately, these people who take up with ISIS may be cast in that role.
If people are feeling that the American dream is not possible and feel that the only way to make it possible is to move to another country and join up with a fringe group like ISIS, they'll be sorely mistaken.
When they're adults, they can do ANYTHING they want. Until then, they're children, whose parents have seemingly abdicated their responsibility. Being a parent is a 24/72/COMMITMENT for life.
To think that there is sent way we can seal our land borders against people tat are wiling to die, you are very mislead. The coastral areas from Florida to
Louisiana cannot be fenced, and the southwestern borders would have to be patrolled. If ISIS wants to come to the US it will be on a commercial airline with a legitimate passport just like happens every day!
"Overnight U.S.-led coalition warplanes are said to have carried out more than a dozen bomb attacks around Raqqa, the northern Syrian city adopted as the de facto headquarters of Isis. But as America and its allies bear down on the jihadists, photoshopped pictures circulating online show the chilling truth of what Isis hopes to achieve.
"In one image, terrorist fighters overrun the Capitol building in Washington, and fly an extremist banner from the top in a scene that echoes the fictional attack on the US embassy in Islamabad by the Taliban, in the series Homeland."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … State.html
More than 76,000 people were killed in Syria last year.
According to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), over 3 million Syrian refugees have fled to Syria's immediate neighbors Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq and more than 6.5 million are internally displaced within Syria.
most muslims are peaceful. its the extremists that cause problems. But hasnt there always been problems between religions? Doesnt every religion have extremists? Catholics, muslims, watever...they all have their own form of extremists.
The main reason for war is to make profit. We all know this. Some of us don't want to admit it cuz we would rather somehow thing that murdering each other in cold blood is the answer to obtaining our own seperate beliefs. ISIS wants their control which leads to money...america wants their form of control because our corporations need the oil..plus our politicians have their needed control. Our economy could not even survive without war to fund and push us from the economic dumps we randomly experience.
AS for attackig us..now...doubt it. We are stronger... course we are on their homeland so it is much harder for us...turn guerilla style warefare in our favor on our homefront we will prevail. But...have ya noticed obama has been militarizing the police, weakening our military, and slapping down laws that lead to marshal law (full military control of america). our country will either strengthen or weaken soon... im more for seeing it falling considering whats happening that very few people seem to notice...then i can see countries or miltias having their share.
- why do you believe this? <Our economy could not even survive without war to fund and push us from the economic dumps we randomly experience.>
Capitalism promotes growth, consumption, and production. In order to grow we need more power, in order to consume more we must produce more. In Order to have all of that we must have more funds and control. Simple taxes do not fund the massive consumption and requests for Constant growth our government calls for. On the other hand war can fund our economy. It gives jobs, gives us a handhold for cheaper resources, ect. Capitalism takes all to grow and give nothing. War just happens to be a high funding priority to propel it. Have ya noticed every depression and recession we experience is followed by a war to create jobs, make changes, raise stocks, and create a basis for extra money?
War works great as a high funding priority...for a short time. As the production does not end up with the consumers making and paying for it, it soon fails as a source of growth. Sooner or later the bills charged against the future will come due.
If you don't catch what I'm saying, i would be happy to supply links to sites that explain it in more detailed terms.
No actually this book I'm trying to write about a dying painter, and my plans for college, and my career keep me up at night. You have your opinions and I have mind. Forgive me if I'm not spot on your opinion. I'm human after all.
P. S. Do you like beer? I know of a good bar were we can discuss our ideas over a cold one!
No I don't think they will, we seem to be doing a good job of keeping them at bay, and that may very well include our government spying on it's citizens or not, but I don't see ISIS as a threat. Domestic Terrorism, is what may ultimately be our undoing. The word FREEDOM has been a bane on American life since it was first magnified in defining Americans. Oddly enough it does not appear anywhere in all five stanzas of the Star Spangled Banner.
Cam, they're dictating our policy and they're invaded our neighbors and there have been questionable events here that haven't been owned by anyone but strongly suggest ISIS is involved. They're stated mission is to destroy us and when I add all that up, I com to the resounding conclusion of: YES. They may not take the form that we see them (burkas or militia) but when soldiers of the US defect and join ISIS ranks and when non-soldiers (the two gals in Denver) leave comfy 'digs' (there must have been something sorely lacking in their lives that ISIS was able to take advantage of) is's only a matter of time before they're emboldened enough to take on a presence that can't be denied and they'll take public credit for. Long story short, I think they're already here.
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Why are some christians so afraid of addressing other possibilities?Does the truth of your beliefs depend upon having the beliefs? Or do they stand true whether your believe or not?
by Thomas M D Hemsley 13 months ago
This forum is for anyone here who wishes to debate on the subject of religion and religious beliefs. Outline your position, whether it be theist or atheist, explain why you hold that position, and then people can debate against you. This forum is not meant to polarize or antagonize people, simply...
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