If you cant prove that the Bible is false, how can you call it lies. That is irrational, for to call someone a liar you must have proof to the contrary to what they are saying. Anything else is personal opinion and mere speculation.
Well, that's your opinion of course. So let's agree that you are stating your opinion, and I'll offer you mine.
My opinion is... so what? If you are happy to believe it - that's grand for you. And I am equally happy to ignore it as being of no relevance to my life.
Whether it is 'lies' or not - makes no difference to me. It's some old writings, by some people, which some other people get very excited about.
Personally I think there is a bigger more exciting world out there - than some old book.
Many of the things that are written in the Holy Bible are happening right now. It's amazing how history repeats itself. Actually, there is nothing "new" under the sun. When you read this old book, you'll find that it factually applies to our present lives! That is, IF you take the time to really read it.
And learning from others' mistakes and victories helps me avoid the same mistakes and win similar victories. That's why I read it, study it, use it as a map. It works to help me live a better life.
Hi HopeisFree, The bible is full of amazing facts. It speaks of the past, present and the future. Anyone who desire to read and study the bible can see for themselves. I love this response. God is Great!
the bible is full of contradictions. i have a masters degree in comparative religion. compare the resurrection of jesus in the four gospels. they conradict.
YES I CAN WELL why is that jesushim self is like older 20 years than his father like he would be 40 and his father 30 or 20 its kind of akward
I respect your views but disagree vehemently with you though. The Bible is the authentic ultimate masterpiece ever written.
the bible is full of contradictions. it could have used a good editor. compare the resurrection story in the four gospels. they contradict. it is full of contradictions. At resurrection story there are serious inconsistencies:
Luke 24: 10 Mary, Mary Magdalene, and Mary go to tomb. rocks rolled back and 2 angels appear. they say what happened.
Mark 16:1 Mary, Salome, and Mary Magdalene go to tomb.. rocks rolled back so they walk in. 2 angels explain that he rose
Mathew 28:1 Only Mary and Mary Magdalene go. God comes down, rolls the rock back, and sits on it! He explains that jesus rose.
John 20:1 Only Mary Magdalene goes.. sees no body, runs to disciples and tells them the soldiers moved the body, disciples come n look and cant figure it out.. then jesus appears to Mary Magdalene and she asks him where they moved him.
This doesnt even take into account that Acts 1:3 says he spent 40 days on earth after the resurrection, while Luke says he left earth the same day (on Easter Sunday)
Can you prove the bible to be true or will you use personal opinion and speculation?
sorry, but that makes no sense!
so, in other words, your post is false because its a post of writing! (?)
It is inspired writing. Some is metaphorical and some is factual. Do the research and find out. But it really doesn't matter as long as it does what It's intended to do, and that is to help, guide and inspire. And THAT, it does without question.
"Its false because its a book of writings."? That proves nothing in itself.
Are you trying to see if you can get more answers than the creationists telling lies forum? If so, great idea for a question. This is one that cannot be proven to either side no matter how irrefutable the poster believes his argument is, but one that will get a LOT of opinions. Have fun with it.
Sometimes tempers get frayed and the wrong words get used, not sure why anyone should call the Bible lies, in the true definition of the word. However, I think it has been well proven over the centuries that the bible has been adulterated in to the version we see today.
As far as I’m concerned this has been done by unscrupulous people over the centuries and has been done to further their own selfish and ambitious reasons, much the same way as information is altered and abused today. We jokingly call it ‘Spin Doctoring,’ which is Politically correct speak for lying.
Where much of the controversy comes from concerning the Bible can be split into two distinct camps. One the fanatical follower and believer, who irrespective of proof will not accept anything anyone says contrary to the Bible being the unadulterated word of God. I’m afraid these people live in a world of their own, and I honestly believe if it were any other subject but religion they would find themselves in rubber rooms surrounded by people in white coats.
The other group consists of those who want to believe the Bible has some sort of significance in today’s world. Of course, depending on how you look at it many people draw a lot of comfort from reading the Bible, so be It. However to quote the Bible as some sort of accurate book of history is way off the mark and I honestly believe most people now accept this as the case, including most of the mainline religious and theological groups.
I say mainline because I have no intention of getting into a head banging session with Creationists or Seven Day Adventist and the like...
There is very little actual historical or archaeological evidence to support the events as described in the Bible nor for that matter that any of the characters were actually real. There is a lot of proof that many of the Biblical stories are in fact stories passed from mouth to mouth from around the entire Mediterranean region, including that of the Flood and references to Virgin Births, all Gods were born this way.
The Bible does not prove the existence of any God, and of course any ancient writings that supported that thought were left out. There is enough writing from the period still left in existence that with clever editing we could re write the Bible to tell a much different set of stories.
Of course there’s nothing to say anyone should stop reading the Bible after all in places it’s quite a good yarn even if it does promote Slavery and multiple wives....
You had me thinking until that last statement and then>>>>>>>I've studied the ancient writings that are left in several different languages and from several different angles. Making a sweeping statement that the scripture promotes those things is ludicrous at best. When the population was low, and your chances for survival were much greater if there were more people to work at helping the whole clan survive, then multiple wives made more sense than anything else I can think of for that circumstance. When that became less necessary as a means of survival, it seems to have been phased out,(another form of evolution,lol.) I'm just saying, we need to look at things from the context of time and circumstances.
I agree, and I can't understand why believers think people in Biblical times were any different than they are today.
The Bible may be the Word of God, but it's the Word of God written down and interpreted by mere human beings. Some of those human beings had the best of intentions, others had their own agendas. Over hundreds of years that has distorted the original message to the point where you can no longer rely on it.
There are undeniably contradictions in the Bible and it's easy to quote countless examples. Believers may dismiss these as trivial, but that's not the point. The contradictions illustrate the fact that mere mortals put those words on the page, and they made mistakes.
I think the same could be said for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. And this makes sense to you, I would think. You can't prove the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a lie, so it is only your opinion.
But.. Her Holiness, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, has personally assured me that the Flying Spaghetti Monster has been banished from Mount Olympus and therefore, while FSM may technically still be said to exist, none of the other gods care.
Yesterday's hero, today's zero. Tough luck, FSM. Cautionary tale for others: Zeus will Not Be amused if you wrap yourself around Hera's face and pretend you are a beard.
I think you and I have found a serious flaw in Troy's RATIONAL argument. It would seem that now we have all these Gods running around, simply, because we can't prove them to be a lie.
Troy seems to be a smart fellow, so I know he has an explanation for this disparity.
"If you cant prove that the Bible is false, how can you call it lies. That is irrational, for to call someone a liar you must have proof to the contrary to what they are saying. Anything else is personal opinion and mere speculation."
The problem is that as and when the Bible is proven wrong we are told that part is simply meant to be metaphorical, or that man's understanding is flawed.
Take for example the creation myth of 7 days. It has been proven that the Earth was created over a far longer time period - so we are told we don't know how long these days are.
Or, I believe, the age of the Earth is mentioned and well off - again we are told either science is wrong (with no explanation why) of that we are not to take it literally.
There are plenty of other examples of how the bible is wrong but the reason for it being wrong is put on us rather than the Bible. I have no problem with this - each to their own, but considering the aggressive nature of your post (and the odd demand to prove a negative rather than a positive) surely you should have considered the stories at the very beginning of the bible?
They can't accurately "prove" that the Earth was created over a far longer time period. Their THEORIES are based off of the scientific method of carbon-dating, which has been proven to NOT be accurate. The scientific THEORY of the Big Bang, has not been proven. The thing people don't realize is science and theology go hand-in-hand. But instead, we all choose to separate the two and say one is right and one is wrong. The Bible, I believe, has the answers to the parts that science can not prove. In turn, science can give the evidence to support these things of the Bible, and also hold its own truths, such as the theory of evolution. There is only SOME truth to evolution. Just as there is SOME truth to Darwin's survival of the fittest. If you do more research though, you will see people have proven the Bible to be true, based on other old documents, books, and writings that match up with the writings of some books of the Bible.
still you can trust carbon dating more than people who lived 2k years ago...if we consider carbon dating in not accurate and world is not as old as science says , then too atleast world cannot be 6k years old like writers 2k years back ...secondly bible and for that matter most religious books are combination of truths , myths and assumption...we dont need to take it too literally..admire it as work of humans who erred in many place...by the way science is far more important for humans and writers of bible too used science to write it...without science humans would be back to jungle and so we should give science more credit ...without science human development and sustainability would be question mark...and it is not just bible , one must read all ancient books ..quran ,veda , torah...many things from these three have also been proven right ...i consider all these books as great works by humans...cherish it but dont get stopped by PERIOD thing in it...
As I mentioned, Science and Theology work together. Without one, you wouldn't know where to go or what to look into in the other. You would simply have opinions. I'm not knocking science. I'm just pointing out that carbon dating is flawed and inaccurate. It is VERY flawed. They have admitted it to be off possibly by billions of years. So to say carbon-dating is a trustable source for time and relevance would be the same as having faith alone. Having faith in something that is flawed. That is why science and theology work together.
billion years off is too much to say...btw carbon dating in not only way ...carbon dating is seconded by other means too...yes religious book have time and again been proved inaccurate about time period or let us say interpretations have been inaccurate...those books must be taken as work of humans...reading too much into it is not right approach...rejecting it totally too is not right approach...balanced approach of taking what is proven and rejecting assumption is way forward...as science would grow it would develop more efficient ways and then more inaccuracies of these books would come into light...we can take message of books and implement it without being too emotional over it...principals are timeless while stories/traditions keep changing...
What if the bible and other spiritual books are actually timeless? We know precious little about time, but we do know that it is quite local, perhaps individual. We all perceive it differently, and considereing frequencies and bandwidth and wavelength, we really have no clue beyond our own personal observations what is and isn't true. The same physics which describes the big bang for instance, also describes multiple dimensions and string theory, a billion different combinations of this reality. Who is telling who fairy tales. Not sure anymore.
quiet right...but atleast we can trust science more considering how it contributes in our lives than some books written by unknown group of people with all stories which defies nature's laws ...we know that such things are more in stories than in reality ...mean while when we can trust science from time we wake up to till we go to sleep and understand that is comes not just with stories but with claims backed by evidence , it is not difficult to choose from...credentials of science are much better than unknown authors ..isn't it?...coming to reality well spiritual books does have something which is timeless...characters might change ...jesus may become moses or krishna but essence is same...it is perfectly glued to human ways and that essence must be incorporated but characters and stories and believe on them must never be point of clash or argument...it is personal thing...i may believe that xyz could defy gravitional force or could bring dead child to life or could come back after being dead or could stop rain etc etc...there is nothing wrong in what i believe as long as i dont want that to be universal truth...it is my personal matter which story i adhere to...
What nonsense. Science and theology have always been at odds. Slowly you are being forced to adapt what the meaning of the words in your religious book mean. Eventually they will say "There is no need for a God."
But I like it that you now accept what Mohamed says about Jesus.
Interesting that you claim to know more about carbon dating than the entire scientific community. Where do you teach?
If you ever paid attention, you would realize I'm saying they GO together, work together, not in the sense that they are for each other, but in the sense that both are used together to study areas of life and to find out more about who and what we are. And also, if you paid attention to what I said, I never claimed to know more about carbon dating than the "entire scientific community." No, I am mentioning that the entire scientific community has admitted that carbon dating is very flawed and inaccurate.
No - the entire scientific community has not admitted this. Please provide data to back this claim up because it is nonsense.
I do pay attention thank you. Science and theology are at odds. They do not work together at all. Theology offers no insights as you who or what we are, it simply claims to have answers which science is slowly proving wrong.
You must be very succluded to not keep up on all this. Years back, on lets see, a few documentary shows, Discovery, and even recent articles about Archeology and carbon-dating have mentioned this.
You are very close minded if you assume theology offers no proof to who and what we are. It is history. And science has yet to advance on proof against it. They've been stuck on the same evolution theory with the missing link they still can not find. In other areas, they do go hand in hand. Again, this isn't strictly to "working together as good friends." This is to..well let's take a look..hmm....EVERYTHING being discussed in this topic? Science doing its research on biblical things, proving points true, and disproving other points. History is in this as well. Spend a little more time in the libraries and watching all the documentaries based on these related areas. Don't say you do. You obviously don't. You can't back up your own words which you continue to repeat and not realize that is not exactly what I'm directing it at. Study, study, study. What I have said, you can see daily if you really do pay attention.
That is indeed a lie. At least we now know where you stand on the issues. Fabrication to defend the faith.
And of course, you can explain in detail those flaws?
Who exactly admitted to that?
Unlike theology, science explains things.
So you are saying that it is equally flawed to believe that the earth is 6000 years old as it is to believe it is billions of years old?
And how do you explain the resurrection? Do you, as an educated adult, really believe, that through some kind of magic, a man brought himself back to life?
As you can see, it is not just the carbon dating issue that disagrees with your beliefs, but common sense itself.
Troy, No one can prove that the bible is false. The truth in the word of God will always stand from the beginning to the end. God bless you brother!
Hello Troy C, there has actually been alot of phisical evidence that proves the bible to be true. There are also the testimonies of millions of people around the world who have took God at His word in variouse situations and found His words to be true, alive and therfore relevent for today. Yes, I believe the bible is true.
memoreton, The word of God is very much alive and powerful. God's word will never come back void.
evidence that the bible is true is irrelevant when someone claims the bible is 100% lierally true, so all it takes is ONE fact that shows the bible is wrong.. there are way to many examples of bible inaccuracies to bother posting them here - you can easily find them on the net or check out The Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy
Thank you for your question Troy C. I am happy to say that in regards to the Bible, there is no reason to simply say that someone cannot disprove it. Rather, if one looks at what is necessary to understand human experience (the preconditions of human experience), then the Christian can rest comfortably knowing that it is only the Christian worldview that can account for such preconditions. Consider abstract and immaterial laws as an example. How in an atheistic-materialistic worldview is an immaterial, abstract, universal and invariant law of logic justified? Being immaterial entities, they do not comport with a materialistic view of the universe and I beg the atheist to show me a law of logic. Can I taste it, smell it, weight it and so on? When push comes to shove, facts such as this render the atheistic materialist universe absurd. However, we Christians do have an answer to the justification and existence of abstract, universal and immaterial laws such as logic. Logic is the reflective thinking of God and is an attribute of His that is extended into the creation. And how do we learn about such a thing? By the Bible of course, where God has revealed to mankind what He is like. God is a rational God, the standard of rationality and has given us, His creatures a non-arbitrary standard to reason – and anyone who denies as such is simply suppressing the truth in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18). The same could be said about moral absolutes, the inductive principle and so on. The point is, if a person who wants to be rational and wants to have the ability to account for that rationality, then they will be forced to stand on the Christian worldview and the information attained about God through the pages of the Bible. Many blessings brother…
This is about as trite a load of rubbish as is common in these threads.
It is not necesary to prove that the bible is false as nothing in it can be proved to be true. There is not one piece of information that can be verified by any source outside the book - except for the setting of the novel.
Stop belting out bu@@@hit and come up with some evidence that any of your novel is fact.
Last time I checked, nothing in evolution had been proven to be irrefutably true either.
that begs the question - provide some evidence that evolution is wrong? there just isnt any; there are scientific differences on how it might work,, but no serious scientist questions the basic reality of evolution
the opposite is not true - christians cant even agree on WHICH bible is correct, so if it takes 100% infallibility, at least some chrstian sects are wrong
Well now, this must be the most foolish statement ever. There is not "one" piece of info that can be verified...not one, LOL?...if you would like evidence, then please answer the logically prior question of accounting for the laws of logic. Please justify the preconditions of experience. Do you have a worldview that can account for evidence? If so, show it. Romans 1:22 my friend.
Yeah, sorry to say, but there is PLENTY of PHYSICAL evidence that the Bible is true. There is also PLENTY of documents, writings, and books, NOT from the Bible that DO match up with the Bible. HISTORICAL documents that MATCH with the BIBLE. Do your research before trying to argue this. Also, work on your grammar. It really bugs me when some one tries to sound like they know what they are talking about, but can't seem to spell the easiest words known to man kind.
Only one who has not done his homework and is easily led would ask this question.
For goodness sakes and for your one edification, just go to Google and spend a few days studying the history of man's bent for religious myth.
Start about 10 - 15 thousand yrs ago and follow it up thru the "dark ages, ranaissance, enlightenment, et al, to today.
It'll all come to ya.
I'm sure you'll be introduced to the "vulgate."
When ya get finished with yer studies and you've shaken off the effects of the "epiphany," you'll ask yourself why ya asked this question. :
Troy - excellent postulation for the defense. Sounds like there could be a collective law suit in defense of the Bible and all believers for slander.
I state that the bible is false. By your reasoning it is now up to you to prove me wrong otherwise it is nothing more than your opinion that the bible is anything more than a popular novel.
Can anyone prove that the bible is true? If not, how can you disagree woth someone who feels it is a lie? Not that i know one way or the other, but it just seems to me that it is stupid to believe in something based on the fact that you cannot prove it is false.
Can anyone here prove to me that my dog does not see ghosts? Because if someone cannot prove that by the end of the day, ill just assume when she barks at the wall she barking at ghosts. And if anyone disagrees with me, ill get defensive, and swear the shes barking at ghosts, because no one has proved to me that shes not.
It amazes me how many indigenous cultures around the world are more 'primitive' than biblical times
Bible ... and all The Revealed Scriptures, are, The Word of God ... But when Tampered, by humans, the tampering falsifies The Divine, unto the humans desired words ...
So the quest for proof is a false search.
The Word, Is Never False ... It is thus, we Glimpse, more or less, The Same, content, in all Religious Scriptures.
The only exception, of Incorruptability, Is al' Quran ... For our Lord Hath Promised, Safeguarding al' Quran ... We can see His Promise Manifest In State of al'Quran ... you call 'the Koran'...
The Word of Koran, Is in the same State, today ... as it was, over 1300 years ago.
Apparently you didn't bother reading the whole thread either. What a shame.
The Qu'ran written by many people who lack the awareness of their own life. How sad.
They even perpetuate the "mystic" ramblings, not knowing any better. Definitely shows you the level of intelligence of people back then.
No because the Bible is the inherant word ofGod. It is the only book that has the truth.
Nothing like distorting the truth with more irrationality.
When you find yourself in a life or death situation and you are really wondering what is really true,. then you might think about what I have tried to help you understand
You're too funny. I have no doubt with regards to my own research. It was a long process and the knowledge gained was unmistakable awesome in it's own right.
There is no truth in the bible, with regards to what or who inspired the writing. And, just because you say so, isn't proof.
Proof is in the pudding as they say, and I ate all my pudding.
There is no distortion to the truth and that is the Bible. There is not one word in it that is not true. The reason for this is it is of God, by God and through God that we have the Bible.
More irrationality. Just because you say so, doesn't make it true. And, I've learned to see past what you obviously cannot.
So how is this verse true, knowing what we know about the solar system NOW?
You [God] fixed the earth on its foundation, never to be moved. (Psalm 104:5 NAB)
Sorry, but this is just mind numbing nonsense.
You have nothing except your whim to back this up. You should stop.
The bible is riddled with errors and contradictions, many of those have already been recognized with no one offering any explanations. Obviously, if all you do is read the bible, you wouldn't become privy to this information.
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
sorry, that's just circular reasoning, so doesnt add anything to the discussion - you cant use the bible's CLAIM to be the word of god to prove it IS the word of god.
===There is not one word in it that is not true.
which of the many translation of the orginal english is correct then - there can't be multiple conflicting aacounts that are all true?
You should probably read this book, just for starters.
But I'm sure it's too late.
You need to read The Hol Bible and no it is not too late for you
Been there, done that and wrote a hub about it.
I even did the necessary research on it too. Sorry, but no truth in it, such as the writing is inspired by a god of some sort.
That is exactly the same thing every other believer in the world says about their own holy books. You are no different than them, even though you all have different religion, holy books and gods.
Of course, if the bible is the only thing you read, you would never know this information.
Well...I know of one just common entity...ahhhh...I believe it's name is mr/ms Common Sense.
No one can prove the Bible is false or based on lies, just as no one can prove it is true and full of truths. That's why it's called "faith". You either believe or you don't, but you have no facts to support your opinion either way.
the fundamentalists claim the bible is inspired by God and is without error. One only has to look at numerous contradictions & weird and wacky teachings to see that it is an invention of people, not God.
uhhh. Sure. Little comprehension prob in your internal software, I think. Little adjustment here, little adjustment there...nope still can't hear, still can't see. Hmmm. Maybe it's a hardware prob. Call the support people in India! Damn, the whole component is fried! Oh, well. Just have to order the part from china. Via the slow boat (short bus) you are alresdy on.
Hey baileybear, just because the fundamentalists say it, doesn't make it so. the church has spent centuries trying to force their opinion down the throats of the masses. I read the Bible and a lot of the arguments people have against it are really more of an argument with fundamentalists, not with the Bible itself.
No. No matter how you wave your arms, it is all utter nonsense.
If you like fantasy, fine, live your life as you wish. But it still is nothing but nonsense and no adult should be believing it.
so, pcunix, you said you think the religious forums are so negative. Why is that, do you think?
I think some are afraid they are wasting their lives believing in nonsense, so they want company to help them think their belief makes sense, and scaring people might work.
really? Bible has no contradictions/inconsistencies/absurdities?
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ … tions.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ … bsurd.html
http://www.freethoughtdebater.com/tenbi … ctions.htm
http://www.bigissueground.com/atheistgr … ions.shtml
http://www.extremelysmart.com/insight/m … errors.php
Actually, there has been proof that the Bible holds truth. Look more into historic documents and books written in the days the Bible was written. Other people, who didn't take part in the Bible, writing their accountances of those times, all matching up with their consecutive books of the Bible. Conveniant really. There has been plenty of research on it.
I can prove that it is chock full of contradictions and has errors of fact (simple stuff like town names).
I can state that it lies if taken at face value - Jesus did not return in the time frame promised, for example.
But the theists will wave that away with a magic explanation, so why bother? If you want to believe nonsense, believe it. If you keep out of my life, I can't complain.
And archeology is continually making discoveries that refute your claim. I don't think it's magic. I believe it's called science.
NO archaelogy does NOT keep coming up with things to prove any part of your book. Stop lying for jesus ！！！
I've just finished reading a book about 3 women escaping the 'children of god/the family cult'.
Lying for Jesus and having sex for/with Jesus
Arghh. Just because someone abuses another person,it is not on the name of religion.it is in the name of some sicko taking advantage of a weaker mind.
You have just given the definition of religion. Abuse of weak minds for personal egoistic, political or financial gain.
Are you an abuser or abused ?
Silly man. I can see you are not religious, and I agree that no proof could ever be offered that would have the world agreeing on the inerrancy of the Bible. That is the difference between the two of us.i think it is important to politely consider the possibility of opposing opinions each bearing a grain of truth. I would not want to be accused of unjustly badgering another person. Unless you think you're God. In which case you would think you know everything, so of course you wouldn't be able to consider another view.
There you go - making your argument about absolutes to try to support your weak position. You accuse me of arguing about total innerancy of your book and you then slip in one grain of truth on each side as though there is a balanced argument. When you have no proof - none at all - for any of the book excepting of course the setting of part of it, and even that is clearly wrong on occasion. Where is your GRAIN of truth ??
I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. You don't. And you are absolutely right. One of us is right and one wrong on that point. Sorry, I posted that while stuffing my face with fries at lunch today. It was not a valid point. Two points for you. Whoosh.
they all knew their bibles thoroughly though, and it was not able to help them
yes, please feel free to ignore facts that are inconvenient. And call people liers when they have the bad taste to mention said facts. If I respond nannynanny booboo, will that suit the level we have degraded to?
Only you have degraded yourself. If you claim that you have proof of creation only 7000 or so years ago and the instantaneous appearance of two people around that time (or a little later if you like) THEN SHOW US THE EVIDE3NCE
Otherwise you are a liar as has been easily and clearly established in respect of every other babbling liar for jesus
Pcunix, town names have all changed over the time, as well as country names and continental names. THAT is in basic elementary level history books. Jesus's promised return time was 3 days after his death. He returned 3 days after he died. Read more of the Bible if you wish to fight against it better. China Man, your arguments are just....invalid. You can't seem to use proper grammar at all, you don't do research, you just argue what you think is true. Baileybear, there are many Cults and fals prophets in this world. Continue your research and you will learn how twisted people use religion as a way to control people for their own advantage. These are not real followers obviously.
If you actually knew anything about this, you could understand better,
What I'm talking about is errors of confusion by the writers. They didn't have Google maps, so they relied on memory and hearsay and sometimes they got their facts wrong - proper names, misplaced geographically.
Your fantasy boy promised to return AGAIN and within the lifetime of those hanging around at the time. He didn't. More importantly, he never will.
I could go on for hours, but there is no point, is there? You will ignore reality and cling to nonsense.
Why do you ay that he didn't come back like he said he would?
Cause he didn't stay long? That isn't a proper answer.
He said it will be like a theif in the night.
A Theif in the Night may stay long enough to eat a bite but never long enough to do the dishes.
Oh, Jerami: give it up.
If the man existed at all as depicted in your book, he was just one of many crazed people running around claiming they were gods. We've had thousands of them, maybe even more.
I suspect that he was just fabricated from imagination, dressed up with some far older legends and tales and that was that.
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."
"Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place"
Those "things" never took place. Not in their lifetime, not ever. And never, ever will.
Um,i think you're talking about yourself in the third person there, or is there a mouse in your pocket?
I think that the bible is true if understood properly.
The visions of prophesy are just that. Visions or like a dream, and proper dream analogy should be applied while not interpreting the truth right out of them.
Many of these symbols were identified in the book of Daniel.
So Daniel shows us how these symbols in Rev. should be understood.
So yes the bible is true, BUT, few people are willing to read it without changing the meaning of the message that is contained within..
The bible has more holes in it than Swiss cheese - it's proven to be flawed all the way through.
Half the stories, parables or what ever you called them was plagiarised from the teachings of Buddha or the classic Tao Te Ching, all of which pre-dates the bible by at least 500 years.
Really! Lol. Well I'm glad someone with the proper authority finally showed up to correct the bible thumpers!
You're basing this off of another religion and carbon-dating. All religions, no matter how different they seem, are very similar. Carbon-dating has been proven and accepted by scientists as a flawed system. They are still working on that. The Bible was written over a long period of time. There are many documents, books, and writings that match up with the Bible, and agree with it, to prove that it is all true. Plagiarism is not something that existed until the greed of man wanting to be the only one entitled to properties for a money value came up.
Ummmm for as long as there has been man, there has been greed. Dont tell everyone here that man didnt become evil greeders until after biblical times. thats horse poo.
carbon dating is not wrong, it's got less accuracy in pinpointing a date. but most evidence doesnt need carbon dating anyway. there are other forms of fdating, geological evidence of the earth's antiquity, evidence of humans from 100,000 years ago, etc, etc,
bible literalists have no idea of how science works - since their claim of 100% accuracy fails when just one fact is shown to be wrong, they assume that one fact can invalidate an entire scientific theory
Aside from the moving goal posts on the 'story' etc side of the Bible my main problem with it is the idea that a book put together from a huge variety of teachings by a group of people with their own agenda, centuries after Jesus was supposed to have been with us, can dictate so much.
Even if you choose to believe in Jesus (I did try church for a couple of years in my early 20's but never quite felt 'it') then that is one thing, but the history of the bible and our understanding of the supposed teachings of God have, in my opinion, been too altered by thousands of years of human machinations, agendas and simple human failure. A giant game of chinese whispers with plenty of people trying to twist the whisper to suit their own ends.
Obviously that is just my take on it, and make take looking from the outside in (and as someone who likes to study belief and religion in historical context rather than an ecclesiastical one). But I simply can't grasp the utter faith and devotion teh bible inspires in Christians who don't seem willing to question it's word.
You're right, belief is a choice. And no one should be afraid to question the validity of the teachings in the Bible. I heard a guy say once that it's easy to read the parts you like, but if you want true understanding you need to read the parts you don't. I've found that sometimes what I saw as a contradiction, was a misunderstanding of the message. But that's just me. I see where a lot of people have questions.
I see, so no one can prove that the Bible is false. Just as I thought. I have been studying the Bible and I have come to a new understanding of nonbelievers and I feel for you. Someone said they tried church but didn't feel it. That is because they were not called, they just tried it.
Lol and it is obvious that you are still just as confused as you were before you started studying your bible.
Your preconceived opinions, and that's all they are, frustrate your need for education.
I have worn your "moccasins" chief and I threw them away for better and more functional footwear.
Troy, to me, you exist as just another easily led fundie who is brainwashed and cannot gain enuf information concerning reality, to be able to think a well reasoned thought.
It is I who pity you.
tch tch ....:
"Someone said they tried church but didn't feel it. That is because they were not called, they just tried it."
Even better - so attempting to believe and constant attendance is not good enough - only the chosen few that have been called can understand it?
I know the problem I had with the church - I had completed my degree in Ancient History and no matter how hard I tried I was analysing the stories as myths, the likely progression of worship etc in the same way I would greek myths (in fact no matter how hard I tried I failed to see any significant differences which is why I gave it up).
But to say the only way one can understand it is to be called - well that is opening up a whole new can of worms and shows what I mean in my original point about moving goal posts
to be called are in majority and are not limited to church or Christians only...every religion has to be called concept much like every religion has god concept and barring few , almost all has my way only way concept...what is common in all these is humans think alike irrespective of religion as far as believe is concerned...
"humans think alike irrespective of religion as far as believe is concerned..."
Yes, all want to think that they are special and use the 'to be called' concept as a way of creating an 'us and them' feeling, a feeling of belonging - something vital in sustaining any religion
I struggle with it as a concept in Christianity though as apparently God is in all of us and we each have our own salvation in our hands... so why then does it need a 'call'?
I'm sorry.I'm a little confused.your post said you were responding to me. Are you calling me a nonbeliever?
If this is a way to sway people to your position, then it is no wonder your ranks are filled with the most ignorant of society.
This is totally pleading for us to accept nonsense as wisdom.
Maybe it is impossible to prove the bible is false, but that, as I have demonstrated, is no reason to automatically believe it, especially since it is quite absurd.
Have you ever heard of prudence? Do you not use it when discerning reasonable assertions from nonsense?
I bet you use prudence when it comes to The Pink Unicorn-EVENTHOUGH YOU CAN'T PROVE IT IS NOT TRUE.
1. Wise in handling practical matters; exercising good judgment or common sense.
People have set out to prove the Bible wrong and have been converted, because the truth is so evident and God chose to open their eyss. I think most of the main detractors have never studied the Bible. Not just skimmed but studied. Unless you know the full extent of that which you are debasing, you are speeking as an unreliable source.
Your claim is false. Your book contradicts itself and has simple errors of fact.
But you are blinded to that by your need to believe.
I no longer defend the Bible or my beliefs. I was chose by God to serve and I will do so always. I understand the anger and confusion of those that aren't. You have only the here and now but there is still hope. You too can be saved and know the peace of Jesus.
I've read many testimonies of people that deconverted after reading the bible properly. Not just cherry-picked & accepted someone else's interpretation of it. Not glossing over the weird & horrible bits
So are you saying they deprogrammed themselves after reading the bible properly? How does one read the bible properly?
they saw the contradictions and how horrible the god of the bible was (especially in OT) - murdered, instructed to murder, was fine with ill-treatment of women, slavery, cruelty to animals etc
Bizarre rules etc
Actually, I can prove it's all a lie. I can also prove every single word is true. Which angel would you like to speak to. The one on your left shoulder...or the one on the right?
If you studied the bible with out the sort of preconceived notions that evolutions use when they study the evolutionary "evidence" you might come up with a whole set of different answers.
I went that way, got an education and left the crazy story of a god who killed all but a handful of the earths inhabitants in a fit of psychotic rage behind.
What a pile!
Is it that you are incapable of reading, because it appears that you have not read any of my post. You are just, simply, regurging nonsensical affirmations of your abject nonsense. This is definitely hopeless.
Troy, when you respond like this, it shows a total disrespect for the commentor, and the debating process. It seems you are using the forums for your childish amusements, to regurgitate insignificant 'feel good' absurdities.
Please respond to my comments with relevance, to do anything else shows a lack of responsibility.
Your responses are insignificant and absurd.
I am tempted to answer this but i restraint myself ...it is not which book ,it is faith which works...
When people say that the Bible is false, what are they really saying? Webster's definition of false is 1)not genuine, 2)intentionally untrue or adjusted, made so as to deceive or intended or tending to mislead and 3) not true. If you are calling the Bible deceptive or intentionally written to deceive, are you referring to all sixty-six books? Since these sixty-six books were written in the time span of about 1600 years, will you assume deceivers with the same goal in mind spanning this time period.
Of the 66 books, 39 of the original books kept by ancient Israel in Hebrew are the ones we know today as the Old Testament. The last section of the Bible known familiarly as the New Testament is comprised of 27 books or letters written in Greek. Forty men shared in the writing of the Bible over a span of about 1,600 years from the time of Moses to the last book written by John. The last book of the Old Testament, Malachi, was written about 443 B.C. The first book of the New Testament, Matthew, was written about 40 A.D. leaving a 500 year gap between the Old and New Testament books.
Were all 40 of these authors spanning 1600 years with a 500 year gap planning a far reaching global deception to begin a movement centered around a Savior that was promised to those that lived during the Old Testament and realized in the times of those living in New Testament ? Did they do this to promote One who entered the world miraculously through a virgin birth, lived to bring a message that fulfilled what was promised hundreds of years before, that this Savior would come to save the people from their sins? The Old Testament includes about 60 different prophecies, with more than 300 references, of the coming of the Messiah that were all fulfilled by Jesus Christ.
What would the benefits be to these writers through the ages? How could this message be declared so consistently throughout these writings? In answer to your question, I agree that someone who calls the Bible false would have to overcome incredible evidence to the contrary to call these 40 authors liars. However, they are certainly entitled to their opinions.
I'm writing a book, and it is inspired by the REAL God...and since it is inspired by God, you are to believe me, merely, because I tell you that it was inspired by God...you were not there, you have no way of knowing if I'm completely psychotic, or just a plain deceptive evil charlatan, using sensationalism and fear to elicit a subservient response from you.
Do you believe me?
I would read your book with the same jaded eye that caused me to tackle the bible and find the "truth'" therein. Your book would only be true if it were something that struck a chord within. Otherwise it would be just another book.
So the 'truth' is just a way of writing to convince?
How do you profess to know the truth? Indoctrination is not necessarily the truth, and in religion, it is not the truth, but you have been programmed to believe, before you were old enough to discern reality.
Laughable you make conclusions about how I was raised. You couldn't be further from the truth if you tried, but I promise not to hold it against you since you were obviously indoctrinated with the theory of evolution before you were old enough to discern reality.
Where exactly were you raised where religion is not pushed at you from all directions?
There is nary a street in the USA (worse in the sticks) without numerous churches assaulting you with threats and promises, the radio and TV and billboards all blare out constant reminders that god wants you to worship, all the money says "in god we trust," people who are not prepared to say they believe in an Invisible Super Being are barred from holding public office, judging from your photo you were probably required to speak of god in school every morning, and the constant barrage of religious politicians claiming they do god's work is deafening.
How is this not indoctrination?
getrite, there would be 40 evil charlatans deceiving readers of the 66 books of the Bible, not just one. Any study of the origins of the Bible would reveal that there was not merely one author (or in your words deceptive, evil charlatan). As far as Jesus is concerned, you decide whether He is a liar, lunatic or God of the universe. Only one of these choices is possible unless you can honestly believe that Jesus Christ never existed despite the overwhelming historical evidence to the contrary.
correction there are no overwhelming historical evidence for jesus...other than christian source , there is hardly any source which verifies existence of jesus...personally i believe he existed but not in way he is being projected as.He was man who was spiritually inclined and preached...
when you finish writting your book that is inspired by God send me a copy my address is Charles Townsend
P O box 441
Lyons , Tx 77863
Troy, the bible cannot be proven to be false to anyone believing in magic (the suspension and/or violation of the natural laws of physics, chemistry, biology, etc.). For instance:
There is not enough water in or on earth to flood the planet completely. To do so would require the addition of a pluto sized ball of water, requiring that physical laws such as gravity and conservation of angular momentum are changed by magic (not only the earth's orbit but it's rate of spin would have changed drastically with the addition of that much mass) and then changed back when the mass is removed.
Given that artificial insemination was unlikely 2000 years ago, a virgin birth is not possible; the female egg does not contain the necessary genetic material. Unless magic is used to violate the laws of biology.
One rib does not contain sufficient mass to create a woman; only magic can change such an item into a human being. In addition, a bisexual species (such as man) cannot consist of only one creature (such as Adam) unless it is the last, not the first, such creature.
Fire consumes carboniferous materials, such as a bush. Unless the laws of physics are suspended via magic.
As I do not believe that magic is a viable option to the natural laws of the universe, the matter is proven. I assume you do believe in magic and the matter is not proven.
...and what chemical reactions are required to transform a human body into SODIUM CHLORIDE!
As salt consists of two elements (sodium and chlorine) and the human body is mostly hydrogen, oxygen and carbon (with a smattering of dozens of other elements) this will require atomic, not chemical, reactions and a goodly number of them. They will have to be very carefully balanced between endo and exothermic types of reactions to prevent excessive heat transference from surrounding articles such as companions. Magic!
Good catch, but for believers in magic it means nothing.
Indeed it does. As not only an extra-terrestrial but an extra-universal creature He is obviously not bound by the laws of our universe and can operate outside of them. All you need do is postulate the existence of a complete additional universe with a single lonely intelligent creature and voila! Magic!
I have to disagree with this being called thing.
That some are called and others aren't.
An individual may be called to perform a particular task, and not another.
I am reminded of just the other day, when six puppies were playing in the yard. I called them to come over and eat some treats. Three came right over, two continued chewing the sticks that they had and another looked at me and ran to the back of the yard as if I had shot it with a water pistol.
They were all called, but only three responded.
And yet all six sleep in their own bed that night.
Jerami - being "called" is just another way of defending an untenable belief. No one is actually getting called.
thats not right...every morning i get nature's call...
I was called day before yesterday to paint this mans office.
I get called all the time.
I often get called names that I do not answer to.
Actually my bath is calling now. Then I gotta go paint that office cause I'm answering that call.
As members of the human race we are all called to something.
I would say that "proving" the Holy Bible is false would be impossible. There isn't enough evidence available to form that kind of proof with any degree of confidence. In addition, the Bible is not just one statement of fact, it's a very long book consisting of stories from many different authors. These stories have been translated many times over into various languages, and not all the translations are consistent with one another. Which Bible would one have to prove false? The King James Bible, which I believe is the most popular English translation? The Hebrew version, which might use the exact wording of some of the original writers?
Certainly some of the things in the Bible can be proven to be true. After all, it's not all miracles and divine intervention. There is some ancient history in there that seems to be backed by archaeological evidence. How much of the Bible would have to be proven false for the entire thing to be considered a falsehood?
I built a time machine, and I went back into the past and I wrote the bible myself, just for a laugh. Can you prove that to be false?
Multiple personality disorders, this chap thinks he is 66 people spanning 2000 years and living in a wide geographic dispersal of locations who wrote books without any knowledge of each other most of the time, but wrote books which surprisingly concurred and were inexplicably telling a complete story... Oh and made nearly 700 specific predictions which all came 100% true (barring about 30 which are still future and to come).
OK you can get back to your mutual mass debate on why you reject the bible now...
it wasn't 66 people - many books were written by one person. The geographic dispersal of people that wrote this wasn't that wide either - they would have been conversant in OT laws. Most of the NT was written by one person, and is very different to OT.
The gospels weren't written until many years after Jesus was supposed to have lived, and it is very unlikely they were written after their namesakes.
Care to provide evidence of these 700 predictions?
If a council of humans hadn't voted which books belong and which ones didn't, people would still be adding on today
Actually I did once compose a complete record of the fulfilled prophesies for some secularist who challenged them, many years ago, as in before the Internet was up and running (can you remember then?) but I have no inclination to cast yet more pearls before 'swine' (metaphorically speaking, or using allegory, not as in calling you or other secularists pigs)for whatever I or anyone stated here would simply be ridden over on the euphoric wave of self denial and pack mentality that secularists seem to imbibe whenever they start the hunt to attack the Word of God.
Now get back to your mass debating and have fun.
BTW Baileybear, your position has swiftly moved from "I´m not sure. to 'I don't believe' in just a few weeks..... such is the power of the enemy (which you no longer believe in) to deceive when someone gives themselves over to secularism.
YOU built a time machine...I built a time machine. Damn paradoxes! Now where in the heck did I park that S.O.B.?
the bible is a book of historical value, of real things that has happend, many of such evidence are also found in other documents, manuscripts apart from the bible.the bible contains words of life, to guide and instruct for daily living. it is the authoritative word of God
So God wants us to cats lepers out, not treat them?
Odd, as the last Pope seemed to go out of his way to show people that there wasn't an issue in being near them.
Presumably authoritative only in parts?
Actually, if you knew as much as you think you know, you would know that lepers were to present themselves to the priests for cleansing and healing and if they remained leperous after treatment they were to stay away from the people who didn't have it so they wouldn't spread the disease around. Quarantine is still used as a preventative to the spread of disease in parts of the world.
I would question the idea that the bible is either a great lie or a great truth. I agree the bible is a great historical book. It teaches many things to many people about how times might have been centuries ago.It can give us cause to pause and think. It has words that comfort many and inspire many. A good book.
However, God had nothing to do with writing the book. And the mortals that did write it were often influenced by their kings, leaders, patrons to write what those people wanted said.
The bible has been translated and transmorgrified so many times that even if it were written by God in the beginning, it has lost God in the translations. Why don't folks just accept it as it is and use the information about our history without trying to understand God because of what some other person said a very long time ago? Lie or truth shouldn't matter, what we can each take individually from reading the book is IMHO what is important. Not how some religion chooses to interprete those words of man.
I would never allow a child of mine to read the bible.
There is too much murder and mayem described in it.
Murder and mayem demanded by this biblical god thing and represented as being an ok way to react when flying into a psychotic rage of anger...which this god thing does on too many occassions.
There are many other reasons I won't go into.
there is so much violence in the bible, that if it were made into a literal movie, the only place it would be allowed to be shown is Amsterdam
Seem to remember that Mel Gibson's The Passion was shown world wide, and just maybe you are gilding the lily, as I see much worse stuff shown on TV and in DVD.... perhaps you need to step back from your anger a mite.
angry? as if.
here's a small sample of the violence in the bible: cannibalism, murder, incest...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index … 706AAFCs4M
don't forget the hacking off of foreskins off dead men's penises after battle.
explicit stories of rape, decapitated heads etc
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index … 748AA64Dfo
http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2010/02/20 … e-rated-r/
pregnant woman ripped open; instructions from blood-thirsty god to murder masses
http://www.christianitydisproved.com/bi … erses.html
certainly not suitable for children - the stuff of nightmares
the bible gets called the 'good book'? hmmmm
Whew, if that's not angry I'm glad I will never see you angry by your definition!
Good job we finally got around to the new covenant then really, all that OT stuff was heavy by modern standards (though I know it still goes on in the world) but for the times, those things were kinda normal events.
For the record, those foreskins were not taken after death, they actually persuaded the dudes who had raped their sister to 'convert' and be circumcised to make peace, then they killed them, but that was NOT upon Gods instruction, just a band of brothers who got extreme when their sister was violated.
Still pretty heavy, but maybe not as heavy as drug killings in Sth America or drive by killing in the States, or 24 week old babies being killed in the name of 'choice' (may as well stoke the fires)
However, find me violence in the words of Christ... he even repaired the guys ear that Peter severed when Jesus was arrested.
In your quest to show your new buddies how 'de-converted' you are, you express a venom that was not present when you first held only doubts, and it seems that the more you move away from faith, the more you are used for destruction of others faith, if that were possible.
Of course, if you have been deceived by the enemy, that would be natural, as the enemy gained more authority over you in direct proportion to your rejecting the word of God.
well still humans can't get to level of religious god ...just read what god plans to do with those who are sent to hell...humans can't beat god in brutality...as it is said humans were made in god's image...
Firstly, why do you guys worry about hell, you all seem to relish trawling the OT for any gory subject or event to promote to attempt to indict God as the villain, but you will not find your concept of hell in the OT.
Secondly nobody gets sent to hell, they chose it when they refuse to be with God.
Thirdly, as an atheist (correct me if I am wrong) you don't believe in hell anyway, so what's the problem...?
what ever it is loving entity and hell providing entity dont match...unless god is villain as u said and if god is not villain and has unconditional love he should not care whether humans worship him or not....religious god is paradox and confused who can't decide...
i am not atheist but yes i dont believe in heaven/hell concept...
Hoping that I translated your post correctly, I will simply say that there is a whole plethora of stuff already written on HubPages (some of it mine) which explains the confusion over hell and how God loves folk, indeed, God loves folk so much that He had to create a whole separated place for those who refuse to commune with Him or deny His existence.
That's love.... but that place, where God chooses to stay away from in deference to their wishes, might just be hell....
He even takes care of those who are so blinded by the world that they cannot see His footprints carrying them nor recognise His hand at work in the glory of creation, but who, in their blindness, will pontificate endlessly blaming God for the excesses and cruelty off their fellow man.
Unfortunately we have multiple courses to show us how to see and examine all sorts of things in the flesh, but nobody can teach anyone to 'see' in the spirit, you either have it or you don't.
Those who deny God cannot ever see as He sees, only as the world sees; through a glass darkly.
aguasilver, I have informed them in another forum that God does not send anyone to hell. They seem to ignore this.
So, people just walk into hell on their own free will? If they don't, which they obviously would not, then who sends them there?
Beelzedad, You just don't get it. The answer to your question have been explained, and I am will not go around in circles with you. The games you play with the believer's in these forums is ridiculous and immature.
Indeed - they just have to believe in God through Jesus Christ right?
So that makes it "I don't send you to hell if you do what I tell you"
So if you don't do what he says and decide not to believe what happens...?
If God does not exist, or is not the God of the bible, then all talk of hell is hypothetical, for all humanity ends up the same, either in annihilation (as in there is nothing following death) or in an all encompassing eternity (pantheism) or constantly recycled (Buddhism)or rejoined with the Great Spirit (not sure who believes that one, but I did for a while).
The 'problem' of hell exists ONLY when someone believes or suspects that God is or may be the God of the bible, He of the OT and NT, and therefore they are faced with this CHOICE of wanting to be with Him for eternity, or NOT wanting to be with Him for eternity.
If God does not exist, you need make no choice.
If God is NOT the God of the bible, you need to make no choice.
So your choice is never forced upon you, if you KNOW that God either does not exist, or that God is NOT the God of the bible, just chill out and enjoy the ride (and spend less time in the forums, smell the flowers, enjoy a sunset, you may only pass this way once).
On the other hand.... if you even suspect that God exists and IS the God of the bible, no matter how badly you may view Him, you really need to consider what He says.
Because basically that God, the God of the bible, says to humanity:
"I want to spend eternity loving you and hanging out in your company, but it's up to you, and if you choose NOT to spend eternity with me, being loved and enjoying all the things of creation, so be it, I have created a place where you and all those who wish NOT to be with me, can spend eternity with each other, and I promise not to interfere."
Which seems to be exactly what those folk would want, no interference from God.
So why whine about it?
What could be wrong with spending eternity with all the other folk who have rejected God?
THINKS...... Oh yeah, now I see why they call it hell!
That answer would contradict WoC who says your god has nothing to do with it. Clearly, he does according to you.
Contradict prevails once again.
I think WoC said it best and was correct:
Beelzedad, You just don't get it. The answer to your question have been explained, and I am will not go around in circles with you. The games you play with the believer's in these forums is ridiculous and immature.
Speaking for myself, I dust my feet and say good night (at least it's good night in Asia!)
the problem is your damning message laced with violence that scares innocent little children
An easy task
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
[Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.
John 2:15 (not that I blame him but this is a clear use of violence used by the Prince of Peace.
Oddly contradicted by this fine teaching, “Do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Matthew 5:39
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it."
"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."
"But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." Luke 22:36
I am sure we can find a few more for you if you need more but for now I am off to do other things
OK.... taking the matter back to the context that started the discussion between BB and myself, it is clear that none of those incidents you quote would be refused prime time TV airing, and are indeed plain statements drawn out of context.
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." could have been extended to say:
"For the Word that God speaks is alive and full of power [making it active, operative, energizing, and effective]; it is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [of the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and sifting and analyzing and judging the very thoughts and purposes of the heart.
And not a creature exists that is concealed from His sight, but all things are open and exposed, naked and defenseless to the eyes of Him with Whom we have to do."
Christ is like that, says things that rile folk as the word strikes deep into their souls and brings conviction to them.
But thanks for all the scripture quotes, even out of context, they will be useful to draw someone's attention to the truth, for Gods word NEVER returns void.
Now I will get on with something and allow the dissenters to get back to their mass debate on the bible scriptures.... how bad is that!
It could say that, but it doesn't, the full quote was used . The bible could say lots of things, it could say that slavery is an abomination against God, it could say the the abuse of your wife is the greatest shame any husband could ever be burdened by and of such disdain to God it counts a murder (murder of the soul), it could make plain that trying to control another's life (be it your wife, husband, child) is slavery and slavery is worse then murder for it makes hell on earth for the one in bondage, it could say all these things, but it doesn't.
Good thing we both have other stuff to do and this is mostly just a fun diversion from work (ugh!)
Glad you enjoyed the quotes, currently I am very much enjoying 'Song of Solomon' and so you might enjoy these ones
Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead. 2 Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them. 3 Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet, and thy speech is comely: thy temples are like a piece of a pomegranate within thy locks. 4 Thy neck is like the tower of David builded for an armoury, whereon there hang a thousand bucklers, all shields of mighty men. 5 Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies. 6 Until the day break,  and the shadows flee away, I will get me to the mountain of myrrh, and to the hill of frankincense. 7 Thou art all fair, my love; there is no spot in thee.
Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, my spouse; thou hast ravished my heart with one of thine eyes, with one chain of thy neck. 10 How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse! how much better is thy love than wine! and the smell of thine ointments than all spices! 11 Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments is like the smell of Lebanon. 12 A garden inclosed  is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed. 13 Thy plants are an orchard of pomegranates, with pleasant fruits; camphire,  with spikenard, 14 Spikenard and saffron; calamus and cinnamon, with all trees of frankincense; myrrh and aloes, with all the chief spices:
I remember laughing with my friend when I was around 9 years old at this. We didn't have any clue about sex apart from the rape/incest/adultery etc in the bible. We thought the imagery of teeth white as sheep and breasts like towers was weird & funny
so, now I'm angry & venomous because I point out some ugly facts in the bible? Whatever.
Seems you are not very familiar with your bible - foreskins were used as bounty after thousands were killed. I still have gory images of stories like these etched on my memory from reading the bible as a child and teenager - horrific piece of literature.
no matter how much you try to justify it, your god is the 'same yesterday, today and forever' (see I still remember quotes) & therefore the god of the NT is the same as the blood-thirsty, murdering brute of the OT.
Guess they were losing too many followers with enforcing the OT (where it was okay to eat babies, but not pork). So, lets just write something that over-rides it.
If you let you children watch prime time TV, kiddie shows and even cartoons you are allowing them to be exposed to mayhem that involves visual representations as well as verbal representations which seems to me as bad as anything that is in the Bible
The difference of course is that nobody constantly works to persuade the kids that the myths represented in cartoons and movies are real - unlike the christian myth.
What kids (or even adults) do or see in TV is reality unlike bible. Reality shows, porn, corporate gimmicks, hate, murder and rest of the negative things in society are part of REAL life. This is what we all face in order to survive in this populated planet.
Just because YOU pretend to be peaceful doesn't mean world will turn peaceful in a day or two. By not being violent your mind just finds ways to vent out in other direction. Either by using your tribe's preaching(Christianity) or some other way. Opposition to reality is just another violence that your mind attempts to stay in delusion.
By keeping kids or adults in fantasy of bible and discarding reality will only change the direction of their insanity. If they stop watching violence on TV or any other media, their animal instinct will tempt them to beat or kill non-believers or anyone who is against their tribes thinking. We're animals and we'll find all possible ways to violence. Why pretend to be sober or peaceful if we're not ? This will not change a thing in this world.
Ah yes ,narrow minded buttonpatch, but I am there to teach them what is fantasy and what is truth.
Teaching children that this "imagined" god thing is "real" and brainwashing them during the "formative" years to believe that, is to me, heinous child abuse.
But what could I expect from you other than your programmed response?
You may have been one of those abused children!
Or, you may just be an easily led, hopeful believer in "Superman."
The bible presents it's fairytale "alpha" hero as a murderous metaphysical creature that creates "everything," organic and inorganic, then like a spoiled rotten kid, gets pissed off, flies into rages of anger and destroys all organic life but a few and allows them to re-procreate so "it/he/her" (whatever) can do it all over again!
Too scary a "tale" for my kids to read and teach 'em "it and superman" are real!
That's even scary to me!
The bible is not a lie or the truth like any great works of fiction. Like every good book, the hero dies in the end.
Step back for a moment and see why it was really written - the roman empire is crumbling daily, there is lawlessness everywhere. People are out of control, which is bad for business for the rich. So, get them all under control by jumping on the followers of christianity bandwagon, and elevate JC from prophet to divine over night. Then make Christianity the best thing since slice bread, and regain control of the masses. Once under control, you can make them do anything of your bidding, even go to war on a neighbouring country, as long as you call it a Holly war in the name of god...
The bible is a set of rules for people of the time to live by keeping them in a state of perpetual guilt or sin as they like to call it - that how it works. A guilty or sinful person is easier to control. Of course, 2000 years later, a lot more people are educated, and the bible has no hold over them at all as they can see right through the thin veil of guilt/sin.
I not knocking the bible, but please see it for what it really is. I haven't got anything against people who want to follow a religion, and gain happiness from it - I am happy if you are happy. But please keep it yourself and stop trying to rub other peoples noses in your chosen religion. Religion is a personal thing and it should stay that way. I have studied all religions, and other people should too as it gives you a better understanding of the world we live in.
So - loads of babble but not one item of evidence of any kind - none at all - zilch - zero - nada - ling - nought. Except of course the only thing left - braying mouths and sheeple chanting godunnit.
Still no proof, just the blind leading the blind as usual. But to those who are uncertain and you feel an urge to know more, ask God for guidance and start studying for yourself. If you have any questions find a local church or ask me or one of the other Christians here.
Most of the atheist, agostics here are stuck in the Old Testamet which foretold of the birth of the messiah and forget about the New Testament which tells of its fulfillment.
...and which is "corrupted" heresay.
There is not one credible word printed in it.
You are simply a misguided follower.
The Christian belief system is based on faith, As Jesus said to those who witnessed the miracles "you believe because you see but more blessed are those who have not seen , but believe. Not the exact wording but each translation says the same thing only worded differently. God put enough evidence out there to convince those he has chosen. Check out the Jewish records concerning Jesus and his geneology They kept very accurate records.
Now in comparison lets take world and us history of which we get mostly from books. You believe every word of that but there is not proof of it all yet you believe. Your boss tells you everything is fine and dont worry about your job, you believe. Your lover tells you that you are the only one and not to wear protection and you believe. Your husband tells you he was working late and you believe. Your wife tells you she was with the girls and you believe. Your child says that he or she is not sexually active and you believe, until;" I've got something to tell you'
You know why you believe, because the alternative is too painful to deal with. But nothing is more painful than Hell my friend. Eternal damnation and seperation from God. You had better wake up and seek him now before it is too late.
God bless you all, Amen
I'm sitting here chuckling at the triteness of your comment.
You, nor does anyone alive today, know what this jesus person said or did.
When you say you are quoting him, you are exhibiting your abject ignorance of the religion you tout.
You obviously haven't studied the history of man and his "bent" for beliefs in the supernatural.
You certainly haven't studied the history of christianity.
I read your comments, and, honestly, I'm embarrassed for you.
You just projected your own neurotic fear onto us. Absurd.
More childish, empty, nonsensical threats.
Where is hell Troy? Have you been there? Have you confirmed the existence and location? If not then your statement is not valid, and you lose all credibility.
Hey Troy - How are you? I've read this post and all the comments with interest and amusement, and, to be honest with you I do feel more than a little bit sorry for you.
You start your last comment with 'As Jesus said...' - how do you actually know that 'Jesus said' anything? It's a book, nothing more than a book of fables passed down the generations and no doubt altered (quite a lot) along the way.
How anyone in this - the 21st century - can believe that a virgin actually gave birth (I will assume that they didn't know how to artificially inseminate back then) Is totally beyond me. Oh yeah - it was God's, I forgot, so that makes it real then. Of course it does.
Then there's the big fish that swallowed a guy and spat him out 3 days later - alive and well. (laughs out loud) of course it did! Oh and there's the biggie - let's part a massive expanse of water and guide an entire nation through it while it just sits there and waits for them to pass through it. Come on man, wake up and smell the coffee!
I really don't get how allegedly intelligent individuals, who have uni degrees etc can actually fall for this BS. Whatever happened to common sense and logic? Oh yeah I forgot, they're probably on the 'banned' list, traits of the devil, along with many more things that make up being 'human'.
I have no desire to try and make you believe what I believe, and frankly, I don't give a damn if you think I'm gonna burn in 'hell' (wherever that may be)
You've really opened something up here, and this is why so many wars have been fought in the name of your Jesus and God, and if he really was a just and loving God, wouldn't he really have the power to put an end to it all? Oh don't bother telling me the details of how He's gonna come back and take over when He's good and ready. He must love to see people fight and die in his name- it's been happening for millennia. Would you seriously stand around and watch your entire famiily kill each other for your sake??? If you really loved them, you'd stop the fight before it even began, you wouldn't give them some half-baked story about it being okay, cos you've got the power to bring them all back to life - and they wouldn't believe you anyway!
So if I were you, I'd climb down off your soap box and wind your neck in, before you make yourself look a bigger buffoon than you already have
Troy, I am in agreement. Thanks for opening this wonderful thread. Anyone who desire to know the truth about God, seek him first and God will reveal his spiritual presence to you. I know this from my own personal experience as God have poured out his love upon me. I encourage you not to allow some of the unbelievers in these forums to decieve and misguide you. God loves you!
I .know he does Woman of Courage but thank you for reminding me. I know that the Bible says that "iron sharpens Iron" and that is true because you and other believers strengthen and encourage me. But I get strength from the nonbeliever also because their reaction to believers was written in the Bible centuries ago. They also sharpen me because they prove that the Bible is accurate concerning mockers.
The Jews say that Jesus was a prophet, which in definition is a person who speaks for God. Quark, trying to provoke me or to embarras me wont work. I know what I know and what I know gives me faith.
jews say jesus was prophet?...well read jew's list of false prophet ...jews dont believe is jesus ...muslims do say christ was prophet but final prophet was muhammad...
Hahaha...Troy, I don't have to try to embarrass you! You are doing a fine job all by yourself...:
Troy, I am aware that you are not allowing anyone to misguide or decieve you. I was speaking of the unbelievers in these forums whose goal is to prevent others from from knowing about God's true love. I think about the mockers in the bible centuries ago when I observed this same behavior in the forums. The word of God is being fulfilled everyday.
Can anyone prove that the bible is false?
Since I left the forums, I've noticed that many of the religious flock has been opening even more and more pathetic thread to justify their irrational belief in a god.
The lamest thing I've seen is in this thread.
You want proof the bible is false- then walk in the damn doctrines . Not a single believer walks the walk, but talks a bad game on top it.
Doctrine #1) Selfless(undefined)- which means it must be taken to the extreme to understand it- if you were to be selfless in every aspect of your life, then in the end, you become selfish. Nice word of a god, huh?
Doctrine #2) Oppress desires(undefined)- again must take to extreme to understand it- if you were to do this in your life, then YOU would be scientifically proven to be insane. Nice word of a god, huh?
Doctrine #3) Belief in god(undefined)- again must take to the extreme to understand it- 100% belief cannot be achieved, because supposedly the god YOU worship does not reside or live within reality, therefore the belief is irrational, damaging and completely useless.
Every doctrine mentioned above requires human beings to FIGHT against their own nature as humans- this is pathetic and should never be done.
Conclusion: The bible and ALL other religions are proved false.
I broke my silence in these forums, because this pathetic thread has lasted too damn long as it is. Believers, get over yourselves.
welcome back cagsil, as it's nice of you to come back to share your thoughts with us on this debate. I know many hubbers around here missed you while you were gone.
oh by the way, did you read the forum that kcc wrote about you in your honor of posting over 30k posts?
Just when I was starting to think Caggy was fallin' over that fence the aggies are sittin' on. What, did Fox preempt your favorite cartoon? Old lady being stubborn? Just in a bad mood and looking for christians on which to feast? Never a short supply of modern day witches for your modern day witchhunt, eh Caggy? How divisive are you. Practice what YOU preach. Walk your own walk. Hippocrites, you, the christians, all of you make me puke!
Hello Steven, I'm not back. I'm sick and tired of this garbage. And, just wanted to do as the forum OP requested. Since no one else wanted to bring it up? I did. But, thank you.
Oh, don't getcher panties in a bunch. I'm just a fun lovin' guy. Tryin' to walk my path. It is difficult avoidin' that straight jacket. Good thing I'm a Ken Kesey fan. You shoulda seen me flyin' over that cuckoo's nest. Wheeee. Just like ta needle you fellers. Told ya at the start, I'm just a pagan at heart.
Can anyone prove that Romeo and Juliet is real? It's literature, it's real in some ways and symbolic in the other. I wish people would just wake UP! wake up!
well i am sure many people believe Romeo was real and so was sherlock holmes...myths become real and real become myths , that is how human works ..
Romeo and Juliet was created to dramatize an idea of love in contrast to war based on realities present in those days. In the same way, the bible is a compilation of stories based on the understanding of those days. The stories were platforms to communicate ideas. It is a very interesting part of our history in that it shaped the formation of our civilization. Is it false, it is not. It is literature. Is it literally true, obviously not. Anyone who cannot see the value of ancient literature that continues to be the center of discussion to this day is plain dull.
If you think Romeo and Juliet is worth preserving and learning from, what more the bible. The bible gave way to the mass production of books. The bible was the only book back then.
Studying the history of the bible opens an insight on how human thought evolved. Studying the bible is also very interesting because it connects us to ancestors and their struggles for morality. The bible is real in that it is based on real things. Is it historical. Perhaps. It is definitely culled from something real. An author always uses material from his immediate environment to communicate his message.
you made some good points out here...infact not just bible , for that matter even torah , quran , veda...all are great works of human civilization and do deserve credit...they did play very important role in moving human race forward...none can deny that aspect....
As opposed to many of these people, there is plenty of evidence, to back up the truths of the Bible. For one, most of these people's arguments have been that "scientists have dated things and proven it wrong." The problem with this is that it was done by their means of dating. Generally carbon-dating. Which they have admitted to being a flawed system. So you can't say that their dating methods are true evidence against the Bible. Historians, both believers and non-believers, have researched past documents, writings, and books, which have matched up with the Bible, proving it to be true. Along with these, there have been the findings of the robes Jesus had worn, to the houses of people from the Bible. And to top it off, there are the lives of people that have changed dramatically when they either 1. Found faith in the Lord, or 2. Lost faith in the Lord. As for needing to be "called" to go to church and have faith and believe, no. That is not correct. You do not get "called" to have faith. As it also states in the Bible, God gives us the choice to believe or not to believe. Honestly, I don't see the harm in believing. What's the worst that will happen? You die, and it turns out it wasn't real, and oh no, you don't go anywhere. Or you believe, die, turns out it is real, and you get the best gift, eternal life along side God. Or don't believe, turns out it is true, and you never accepted Jesus as your savior, never believed, and go to, what many people like to complain about not being "fair" to non-believers, Hell, which is the other side to the whole religious thing. It's all choice though. You can choose to believe the Bible is true, along with the evidence supporting it. Or you can choose to believe it's a load of bull, with the THEORIES and OPINIONS saying it's not true.
you keep repeating over that there are plenty of independent historical documents etc that match the bible. Care to give specifics?
As for believing, just in case, that's Pascal's wager. Can't force one to believe in something that makes no sense. I touched on that with my hub about death (written because a christian asked me to)
Travis, Very well stated. Some have seen the evidence, but denyed it anyway, even when it matches with the bible.
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky,
= = = = = =
In reading Josephus we see a great tribulation falling upon the inhabitence of Jerusalem.
There was a droght, Civil war going on in the streets,one faction either stealing the food supplies of the other, or destroying it. bodies lieing everywhere, which became another health issue.
And all of this began after 62 AD with a great earthquake off the coast of italy, which destroyed Pompai, Smaller earthquakes became commonplace in the region. Until 17 years later Vesuvious errupted and burried Pompai.
There was a 15 MPH SE breeze which carried the ash clouds across the sea to Israel.
The sun shined with but 1/4 of the normal light, the stars were blocked from view etc. etc.
Pcunix wrote ....
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one
end of the heavens to the other."
= = == =- - - - -
His elect was but 144,000 individuals.
Out of the milions of inhabitence and with the numbers of Christians that were being hunted down and killed, 144,000 people would hardly be missed.
Life then goes on as usual.
You conveniently ignored the promised return, but of course I expected that.
Your book is a fantasy, Jerami.
Do you know hoe to read ?? All those things you mentioned , saying that wasn't fulilled, well you are wrong.
I just explained how those prophesy did occur ater Jesus sai that they would.
He came , we missed that buss. 1650 years of that fact being ignored, has brought us to where we are today.
Sure, Jerami: because you can just read it anyway you want to read it, right?
"all the tribes" means just a few unnoticeable folks, suuuuure it does.
The nut cases who wrote this bible stuff are exactly like the nut cases predicting the end of the world in April or May. It didn't happen then and it won't happen now. But fools go on believing he is a'coming.
Sure, Jerami: because you can just read it anyway you want to read it, right?
Read my LIPS ... I was revering to the verses that YOU chose and responded to them.
You said .. Jesus said that that generation shall not pass till ,,,, That is what I'm talking about.
============================================================================================ - - - -
"all the tribes" means just a few unnoticeable folks, suuuuure it does.
- - - - - - -
Does it say all of every one of all the tribes ? NO it Don't
It says ("ONLY") 12,000 oe each of the tribes
These tribes, and people were scattered out ALL OVER the place ! Yep ... pretty easy or that many people to just "Vanish" as ar as anyone knew !
It happens all the time Do you know how many people just went missing last year alone ??
Do you drink a lot of coffee, because man.. You seem tight. That isn't very nice at all. I'm sure if someone thought you were a nut case they could find a kinder way to put it.
So you DO NOT think the people who say the world will end this year are nutters?
I bet Jerami does.
We're all nuts, in one way or another. I worry about the people that believe this story. What will they do on May 22? They certainly don't need people making fun of them. They will feel bad enough as it is. There are a lot of cases where people commit suicide after that type of disappointment. I wouldn't want to feel that I contributed to their misery.
You think I think what ? That they are nuts ?
I wouldn'y say they are nuts! I'd say they are making wrong assumptions. Don't know where they would get that.
I stand corrected. You don't think those people are nuts.
Are they nuts if they think the Mayans predicted it and not nuts if they are 'interpreting" the Bible?
That is not quite a complete statement.
I can think of at least 3, 4, or 5 questions that you might be asking.
Can you be more specific?
Pcunix, there is a word for people "interpreting" the Bible for the "end of the world." They call them false prophets.
Travis, I don't listen to what people say about the endtimes if it's not in line with the bible. I have often read replies in these forums of unbelievers continually stating what people say about the endtimes.
Of course. It's a big topic especially with that next "end time" coming up again. All these people just want control and power using fear. As it states in the Bible, no one knows when it will be, other than the one and only creator.
what do you mean by these?...none knows how to use religion for power than religious heads...single point agenda has been to have power using stories from books like bible ,veda etc...all books written by human beings in good faith , manipulated by coming generations to get power and blinded by that people still get carried away...i hope some day people would consider books not bigger than fellow human beings , life and nature...
The OP's problem has been solved. Just published this title as a new hub to prove it false. Have a great day!
well i doubt op would looking for it...yes your new hub can be great help to people but if op wanted answers , he/she wont have asked this question at first place...answers have been obvious since last 2k years...most famous being galileo , then recent vatican's speculation of aliens and many many such stuffs...answer is simple and obvious...
I know he wasn't truly looking for answers, but only posted this thread to mock those who don't believe. But, thank you. I also appreciate the fact that you checked out my hub.
Ironically it is said that jesus made statement called treat others as you want yourself to be treated...so get ready to be mocked and ridiculed , if one wants to mock and ridicule others...how can believers forget that
Well, it didn't exactly say it in those words, but the message is there to be understood.
The distorted message is debunked. But, you're probably right, the ridicule will without a doubt come.
And WOC, your belief is misplaced.
Is of course not ridicule?
You call that ridicule? I suggest you look up the word.
Words or actions intended to evoke contemptuous laughter at or feelings toward a person or thing: "I know that ridicule may be a shield, but it is not a weapon" (Dorothy Parker).
tr.v. rid·i·culed, rid·i·cul·ing, rid·i·cules
To expose to ridicule; make fun of.
[French, from Latin rdiculum, joke, from neuter of rdiculus, laughable; see ridiculous.]
Synonyms: ridicule, mock, taunt1, twit, deride
These verbs refer to making another the butt of amusement or mirth. Ridicule implies purposeful disparagement: "My father discouraged me by ridiculing my performances" (Benjamin Franklin).
To mock is to poke fun at someone, often by mimicking and caricaturing speech or actions: "Seldom he smiles, and smiles in such a sort/As if he mock'd himself, and scorn'd his spirit" (Shakespeare).
Taunt suggests mocking, insulting, or scornful reproach: "taunting him with want of courage to leap into the great pit" (Daniel Defoe).
To twit is to taunt by calling attention to something embarrassing: "The schoolmaster was twitted about the lady who threw him over" (J.M. Barrie).
Deride implies scorn and contempt: "Was all the world in a conspiracy to deride his failure?" (Edith Wharton)
So the mocking you inserted was not compliant with the definition?
OK, we obviously use different dictionaries!
My statement "belief is misplaced" cannot be ridicule. No matter where you get the definition from.
Edit: Just because I used a smiley laughing face, isn't ridicule. It means that I was laughing at the time I said it. I just wanted her to know that I found what she said funny.
OK, point taken, just could not resist answering you, especially as both of us have decided not to frequent these places!
Cagsil, You don't fool me. The statement was intented to ridicule. This is a regular pattern in your responses to believers. If your goal is to anger me, I only want you to know, it's not working. Love and Blessings to you!
Cagsil, You said that he only posted this thread to mock those who don't believe. Where is your intelligent answer to the question? I will be awaiting your response.
Hey WOC, I've already answered the OP or are you not paying attention to the thread.
However, I also posted a second reply in this thread about answering the original OP's question, yet you failed to read that one either.
On a side note, you can read about here- http://hubpages.com/hub/Can-Anyone-Prov … e-Is-False
I made a hub precisely for YOU and other religious. Enjoy!
Cagsil, I have read your hub which is filled with errors. It was a complete waste of your time to present this hub to the believers. You have not written anything to prove the bible is false. God's holy word can never be proven false.
I guess you cannot read. Oh well. It was worth a shot.
The idea here, WoC, is that when one makes such a claim of refutation, they are supposed to present the errors and explain why they are errors. You did not do that, hence your claim is empty. Understand?
I am Muslim and I don't believe that you can prove the bible is false. Religions can have some disagreement and that is not meaning that the other one is totally false. I am sure that there are in the bible God's words so if you say I can prove is false you are totally wrong. Prophet Mohammad said: "don't deny words in the bible because if you deny you may be denying God's words" So you can understand that statement that there is disagreement but not that he doesn't agree everything in the bible. Islam, Christianity and Judaism came from same root but they have disagreement and they are all religions from Sam God. Finally, I would say to you, hold your horses and don't be mistaken.
Did you read this thread thoroughly before you posted your response?
you are correct about Islam, Christianity & Judaism sharing roots. I wrote a hub about evolution of christianity that mentioned this (my main focus was christianity, as this is what I am most familiar with). Was very interesting to research.
@cagsil i guess it is uncle sam...sam god...which in turn can symbolically be said as $ or money...which means resources...i guess this is most outstanding and correct post out here...
I meant same God not uncle Sam,but smart people can understand what I meant
Who the F is sam god ?
Is murdering queen's english considered as halal in islam ?
I'm a preachers daughter, guess what I learned while everyone else was talking, Wow, GOD, JESUS, and MARY didn't write the bible, jee I wonder who did, oh yeah, man. So it must be right.
skyfire respect this forum and use f word please. There is no sam god, I meant same God.
The first thing one learns in school about philosophical andreligious arguements is that you cannot prove a negative. You can't disprove and you can;t rpvoe it, your question was stated as a negative and so cannot be proven.
I don't see where it has to be an argument. Who cares if someone else doesn't believe it? Their non belief doesn't negate, or trump, my belief. It has for some time been, and will continue to be, a point of faith. I would suggest we, as Christians, just be happy in the fact we believe.
Well no matter what people think ,The Bible is still the most printed book.
( True many are given away) but for all of that It has survived.
Hey EK, of course it is the most printed book. The Christian religion is the most wealthiest religion presently. Not to mention, it's followers consist of 2.1 Billion people.
I think I have a solution -get rid of money
No need to get rid of money, but get rid of the religion itself.
If you get rid of all the money ,that leaves religion on an even footing -right?
Then who would you blame?
The point EK is you cannot do away with money. Religion can be done away with.
All religion is already on the same footing, each uses the same 3 major doctrines for their foundation. It's that foundation that is selfish and makes those who believe also selfish.
Religion can be done away with -I disagree,simple history has proven it cant be.
Why do you think it makes those 'who believe' selfish?
Actually, history hasn't proven anything with regards to it, simply because those who want it in place to control the masses keep it, besides the wealth that is derived from it, should show you the greed of those who usurp their position.
The action(formation) of the belief is selfish. It is selfish because people put themselves before others.
Belief in a god = is a reward of afterlife, granted by said god for said belief. The belief makes people think that they are getting something in return, providing they do as instructed.
This is putting oneself before others. It is selfishness. Those who do actions based on what a god wants, do so so they can be in favor. Which again is selfish.
I meant history has proven the Bible cant be done away with.
So in relation to the topic, and you saying ,Money cant be done away with but the Bible could.
I say it couldnt.
They have tried and to some degree Eastern countries do better than Western , BUT the Bible remains
Its how you interept it Cags.
My (late) mother said to me when I was young
Stay a virgin ,everyone loves a good girl, God would be proud of you, we would be proud of you ..rah rah rah , ya ;know the usual parents -teen lecture.
Point is I dont beleive they were afraid of Gods retribution ,but my long term welfare etc.
How would that be deemed selfish.
Incidently I became a young teenage mother.
God still loves me ,didnt agree with my lifestyle ,but at no time did I feel 'a lost cause'
Was my family selfish for supporting me, even though they stepped up and helped me out-Was God selfish for loving me and my son.
No I dont quite get your line of thinking on that one.
See knowing God personally is not the same as generalising.
On the other hand I have seen selfish behaviour from certain churches and individuals Christian and not.
Interpretation has nothing to do with the belief itself and what it represents. Any action derived from the belief is selfish based, regardless.
I just had this discussion with my own mother earlier today and she said the same you just did, "I don't follow your line of thinking", so I explained it to her, just like I am going to do now.
If you form the belief, you do so to be in favor with a god, so a god will grant you something beyond death. In doing so, you put yourself before others, which is the definition of selfish behavior.
Every action taken on behalf of that belief is selfish based, regardless whether or not it helps someone else, because of the reasoning is to gain favor with a god.
I don't see that the bible needs to be disproved, it does that itself.
A psychotic murdering invisible entity that will kill me because I don't bow and scrape to it as a god? Pathetic.
A disturbed psycotic intent on killing, is not an entity ,he is damaged goods.
He certainly is. This "god" makes literally thousands of threats all through the book.
He makes thousands of promises too.
Tell me this, If tomorrow I murdered and committed evil nasty crimes , would I have done it or God?
You know my answer to that. There is no god, just the ridiculous hate filled tome that some choose to believe. How do you address the psychosis in the book? Ignore it?
Or have you not read it?
You side-stepped my question?
Have I read it, yep, appears a different version to yours though.
Hey Earnest, the doctrines force people to go against themselves. No rational/sane entity would create something, just so it could give them instructions that would lead to self-destruction.
Tell me this, If tomorrow I murdered and committed evil nasty crimes , would I have done it or God?
Ok you dont believe in God ,so I would have done it.
So God isnt to blame for the evil people do-I rest my case.
More than that, god doesn't exist, so you are very safe in your assessment.
If you form the belief, you do so to be in favor with a god, so a god will grant you something beyond death. In doing so, you put yourself before others, which is the definition of selfish behavior.
I see in quite the reverse.
I questioned my purpose, then I questioned why was I made, where I am I going.
I have a good life ,but why? why is this world and his amazing creation here ?
Where did it come from? why
I do not accept me ,you ,this world exists ,evolved for all that we know.
So God didnt feature too much at all (in the beginning)
This would be no different than any other person who has ever existed. Every person questions their own purpose. What many people fail to realize is that a "purpose" cannot be granted or given to them. It must be figured out on their own. Meaning, we each decide what our purpose is to be. That purpose, can be for selfish or selfless, reasons.
You actually questioned by you were made? Don't take this the wrong way, I asked my parents why I was born. My parents said, we(your father and I(your mother and I)) wanted children. I said okay.
Again, this would be something for you to determine, not to be granted or given.
Why do you have a good life? That is a question you asked yourself? And, I would think that the answer would be more than obvious...you didn't do anything to make it bad
This is part of indoctrination.
It shouldn't matter with regards to your life, because knowing is meaningless and so is asking "why".
The first part is all that matters, you accepting yourself. Once you accepted yourself, then you learn to accept others, because they are the same as you, as in the same boat, same predicament.
Sure it did, because you were indoctrinated, via the beliefs of your parents, but on a subconscious level. Now that you live on a conscious level, breaking from the indoctrination should be something you would look forward to, to be your own authority, handling your life in every aspect, without anyone or anything holding your hand.
Which seems like you've done, except to rid yourself of a belief you do not need.
'do not need according to Cags' no offensive intended ,but you know what I mean.
Yes I did query why I was made
, I mean precisely. Not meaning genetics ,but nature,moods, intracies ,nuances,etc.
(Like, if 20 people all have the same thing happen to them say: divorce, why do they all react in 20 different ways) or what makes one turn to drugs and one not...
Indoctrination, do you also mean like imprinting?
Could you not also say an Atheist had been indoctrinated.All jargon to me really.
Where Am I going ( I chose ,after the information )
I do accept others ,I really like people.
It's not according to me. Offense accepted. And, yes I do know the sarcasm, which wasn't needed nor was it warranted.
Knowing all that comes from understanding who you are, what you represent and how you move forward.
Every person has a different reaction to things, that is what makes us different and what we learn from them is how we move forward.
Yes, your parents' beliefs were imprinted on to you.
Actually, Atheist(which I am not) could be seen the same way, but Atheism is more an anger that is not seen past.
Exactly, no god required.
Of course you do, because you've learn to accept yourself.
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