The Gentiles are no longer enemies of G-d. Under the New Covenant they are Messianists (being one in the Messiah Yeshua). G-d word says from:
Whats more, the scriptures looked forward to this time when G-d would save the Gentiles also, through their faith. G-d told Abraham about this long ago when He said, I will bless those in every nation who trust in me as you do. And so it is: all who trust in the Messiah share the same blessing Abraham received.
(Galatians 3: 26-29) For now we are all children of G-d through faith in Yeshua the Messiah, and we who have been baptized into union with the Messiah are enveloped by Him. We are no longer Jews or Greeks or slaves or free men or merely men or woman, but we are all the same we are Messianists we are one in the Messiah Yeshua. And now that we are the Messiah's we are the true descendants of Abraham, and all of G-ds promises to him belong to us.
(Galatians 3: 14) Now G-d can bless the Gentiles, too, with this same blessing He promised to Abraham; and all of us as Messianists can have the promised Holy Spirit through faith.
I do not understand your definition of "Messianists". Are you interpreting the word "Messianists" as being people who believe that Jesus Christ, is the Son of Almighty God, and, the man that High Priest Caiaphas had condemned and crucified and who arose again according to the Prophetic Hebrew Scriptures as being the True Messiah, the true King of The Jews?
Is this how you are defining the term "Messiaists"? These believers are defined historically as "Christians", followers of Jesus Christ, thus the name "Christian".
Christian people accept and believe by "Faith" that Jesus is the True Messiah and through faithful belief in Jesus teachings in the Holy Gospels of MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE AND JOHN, as well as the Epistle writings of all of the other writers in The Holy Bible. Christians adopt as truth these scriptures, and adopt as a part of life, these scriptures, on the authority of Jesus, the Son of God. Shalom
I am not sure of Elisah's full defintion of 'Messianist' but will address a couple of things you mentioned in your post.
Even though this may be shocking to many within the Christian world today, the Messiah's name was not Jesus. This is not just someone's opinion, but a Scriptural, as well as historical fact. If you take time to read a little deeper into both the Scripture and history, we can ask: How could the Messiah's name be Jesus? The letter 'J' does not even exist in the Hebrew, Latin or Greek. In fact there was no letter J in any language prior to the 14th century in England. The letter did not become widely used until the 17th century.
Further, the original King James version of the Bible, the name we NOW read as 'Jesus' was written: 'Iesous'.
So how could the Saviours name be Jesus over 2000 years ago?
The Savior was born in Bethlehem of Judea of a virgin from the Tribe of Judah who spoke Hebrew (or perhaps Aramaic), a Semitic dialect. He was born into a culture where Hebrew was the familiar language. The messenger Gabriel had told Miriam (Mary) the mother, that the Child who was about to be born would save His people Israel from their sins. His Name, therefore, would literally reflect this meaning and mission.
The Scripture is a Hebrew book, given to spirit-filled Hebrew writers. The only language spoken for the first 1757 years until the Tower of Babel account in Genesis chapter 11 was Hebrew.
In light of these facts,we can question as to why most Scripture translations today call the Savior by the name Jesus that is neither Jewish nor Hebrew?
Why would a Jewish maiden, whose native tongue was Hebrew, living in a Jewish community of Hebrews, who had been addressed by the celestial messenger Gabriel, give her newborn a Latin-Greek name that carries no such meaning as Savior in either language? The Greek word for savior is "soter," while the Latin is "salvare." No part of this word is found in the name "Jesus," a name with no etymological meaning. Remember that the angel said His Name would be related to His purpose as Savior. Yahushua literally means : “YHWH is Salvation”
2. The Messiah Yahushua did not begin Christianity, and the Apostles did not practice Christianity either. Most Christians are really taken aback when they find out that ‘Christianity’ was not the faith of the apostles! Early believers were never called “church goers” or even “Christians.” The faith in Messiah was originally just a sect of Judaism. The first believers were called “Nazarenes” or “Followers of the Way.” In Paul’s trial before Felix, the lawyer for the prosecution said, “We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ring leader of the Nazarene sect,” Acts 24: 5
Most assume that the name and religion of Christians originated in New Testament times. That Christians are recorded as having thrived in the first century as recorded by certain historians, thus the references to "first-century Christians". However, there is no historical or scriptural trace of Christians or Christianity either in the New Testament or the first century, in name or religion. The evidence shows that Christians arose no earlier than the second century as an anti-Jewish movement that broke away from the original Believers.
Both the New Testament and secular histories had their texts altered to create the impression that Christians / Christianity had a legitimate beginning. In Christian bible translations, Christian appears in three places; Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28, and 1 Peter 4:16. The oldest known Greek manuscript of the New Testament is the Sinaiticus, the second oldest is the Vaticanus. Neither of these texts contain the Greek term Christian.
Again I am sorry to be so blunt, and I do say this with love...but Christianity is a mixture of paganism and truth. How can I say this? Well take a closer look at the practices and teachings within Christianity - for one small example:
A. Do you see the early assembly practicing 'Christmas' or Easter? Not once. So why does the church practice these pagan festivals today? I am sure you have heard of Constantine right...?
I am sorry to make this so long. But this is just the tip of the iceberg my friend. If you want to talk more, send me a message.
Shalom to you..
ShevaStreet: You sure waste a lot of breath and words trying to tear down the Faith of Christians, by trying to destroy the "TRUTH" as historically recorded. You fly in the face of Allah, of Jaweh, The Creator, of God himself, when you deny His Holy Scripture teachings shared by God with His chosen people. May Jehovah God, have mercy on your soul.
Faith is not necessary if you have experience. Therefore faith is required only when an intellectual understanding of God is present. Be fabulous if one had both faith and experience! The mind bogles at the infinite possibilities.
I'm unsure of what you may be saying, would you offer more clarification. Before I reply, I would prefer to have a better understanding of where your thoughts lead on the topic regarding your post, than to offer a response that will lead to confusion or inappropriately undermining your original meaning.
Ok will try and explain.
Lets say there is a community that experiences wind. We have books that tell us wind exists but they are of little value because we experience wind. They only confirm our experiences with wind.
Now lets say there is another community that experiences wind and rain. They have books that tell them wind exists but have never experienced wind. At least have not experienced wind in the way the book describes because of the rain element. Faith is needed to believe that wind exists because they have not experienced wind the way the books describe.
These books are written by the wind community.
It is not hard for the Jews to believe in the existence of faith giving of G-d because they were there; Some talked to G-d face to face. They witnessed the power of G-d through the deliverance of Egypt and many other testaments, so given that; Yes, it is not hard for (now) their descendants to have great faith. But, one must remember during that ancient time, they too, felt as many of the Gentiles today. But this is why they gained His favor, it was through their Faith. G-d spoke to Abraham and said he would have many descendants and he believed in faith, although he had nothing to go by which should allow him to believe. Noah trusted G-d even though there was no sign of a threat of a flood. Moses parents had faith, trusting G-d would save their child. The people of Israel trusted G-d when walking through the Red Sea. The people of Israel trusted G-d that the walls of Jericho would tumble down when G-d told them to walk around them for (7) days. And it goes on...! The Gentiles do not have that background but they like all the others before them have had to submit to acts of faith and through that faith many believe. For having faith in G-d, He will not leave one standing alone. He Our G-d and L-rd is powerful and generous with gifts. Having faith is empowered by Him to one with the giving of strength. A gift. But faith alone is not enough, one can have faith but not believe. Believing comes from actions, tests and trials which bring forth His gift of endurance and strength. Many of those men of ancient did many things that was not the right thing but the pleasing of them from G-d came from their “faith”. Faith instills loyalty. “The Keynote”. A trusted man requires loyalty. Great things happen from a man of loyalty. For a man of loyalty believes in his position even though he may not acquire immediate rewards. I can offer to you two situations:
My son and his wife over a year ago gave birth to a baby that upon my son cutting the cord and the baby being placed in his arms died at that moment. I felt so sad for them. My son was distraught. He felt that “Why” I pray, I have gone to school and acquired myself an education, My home was brought for this moment. We are not selfish. “For this was a time of faith”. They did not become angry with G-d, but through faith continued on, my son saying “she will be back”. Unknowingly they found themselves pregnant when his wife was seven months pregnant. She had the baby girl yesterday. Beautiful and healthy. The nursery still awaiting, having been untouched. They were rewarded for their faith and believing. When I attended college it was not a piece of cake. It took lots of work being both physically and mentally difficult. Running into one wall after another. All I would say while working in sub-standard jobs was “I got to do it, I got to do what I have to do”. For I wanted a family and that was my “cause”. I ran the race not knowing if really I would reap the reward, although, I kept my thoughts upon the prize, while seeing others get theirs. Through faith and trust; I won the battle.
The same applies to having faith in G-d. The actual prize has not been seen but spoken of and by the witness of G-d former testimonies of Truth. One is enabled to believe. There are trials but with faith G-d reveals segments of His promise. Believe, with strong faith G-d reveal things beyond one's imagination. While suffering much antagonism, just like that of one's pursuit of education. Although, G-d reward being far greater in the end the endurance will pay off, making one a conquerer and reaping the rewards.
I think faith and belief are tenuously linked. Without one you cannot have the other. My point however was this. In experiencing God having faith and belief in Gods existence goes without saying. When one only experience God through the word or text of whatever religion one is following. Faith and belief in an unseen, unfelt presence is required.
If this faith and belief is not strong and life "happens", more often than not the person the level of faith and belief will dwindle. What is seen as test now becomes questionable. I see this as mainly because the manner of Gods Grace is not understood in it entirety.
Faith in mans teachings is another thing altogether.
In one's walk with G-d, allowing Him to take complete control, one will reach that "entirety", this, being giving of G-d as a gift for the loyalty of faith. When testing becomes questionable; G-d "will" feel in the answers. That is a certainty! The problem being is that, one may not choose to accept the answer.
Yes, I agree with that of man. Man teachings are founded for control and one lose faith from his inability to ofter reliability regarding his performance. G-d has and will always provide proficiency and dependability.
All those who become born-again, yes, can receive Christ and His blessings. God promised this first as a way to provoke the Jews to jealousy so they would return to Him. And in the form of Jesus, He showed His love for all mankind, not just for the Jews.
I dunno about being "Messianists" since I'm unfamiliar with your intent on that, but I know I'm a Gentile who's been born-again, which makes me simply a Christian. I don't see any need to place any other label upon it.
More religious spam from a make a new babble thread and run kristian.
Sorry, to have taken so long in reply to your response but I have various duties to perform. I'm retired but many of my former colleague's do not understand the notion.
My friend Matthew,
regarding your statement: “Christian people accept and believe by “Faith” that Jesus is the true Messiah...”. Yes, that is truth, although there are no accusations appearing in the submission that say otherwise; Perhaps, there is the need of better clarification.
The biblical scriptures come through the Jewish people, where their history and worship of G-d is manuscripted. The entire Old Testament in Hebrew, known as the “Torah” was giving of G-d by the hands of Moses. The New Testament was written by the disciples of Yeshua being the exception of “Luke”. Our L-rd Yeshua was a Jew. One being the Anticipated Savior. (The Messiah) meaning “The Anointed One”. That which is referred to then and now from the Israelites. The Hebrew equivalent “Christos” (Christ) being Greek for “Anointed or The Good One”.
The beginning of the Christian structure were due to the efforts of the 12 Jewish disciples whom fearlessly having unshakable faith of loyalty to Our L-rd Yeshua conquered bringing forth the growth of believers. “The Christian Church”. G-d's Glory. The salvation and promises came from the Jewish people; Therefore the way of salvation is Jewish and the Gentiles later known as “Christian” being grafted in becoming also Jews.
The following scriptures testament the benefits shared by G-d through way of the Jews.
The natural branches/The ingrafted (Romans 11: 11-36)
G-d blessing giving to Abraham (Genesis 22:18)
Our L-rd Yeshua when speaking to the Samaritan woman (John 4:21-24)
(Eph 2: 8-22 & 3:2-7)
The appreciation of the Gentiles for the spiritual deliverance giving of the disciples (The promise of G-d salvation). (Romans 15: 25-27)
From the above scriptures, this makes all one and the same. “Messianic”.
Now being one and the same, we are to share!
Exalt with me, and extol his name The L-rd
Gadloo eetee oon'rom'mah sh'mo Ladonai
“Unique is our G-d, great is Our L-rd,
Ekhad elohaynoo gadol Adonaynoo
Holy and revered is His name”.
kadosh v'nora sh'mo.
Glorious in holiness, awesome in praises
Ne'dar bakodesh nora t'heelot
I dont understand why you guys write G-D and L-rd , please enlighten me
They don't want to use the word 'God" because it derives from pagan sources - a historical fact yes...though most Christians today do not look into it because they only listen to what their pastor's, teachers and church denomination teaches. Further, they hesitate to use the Creator's Name...do you know the name of your Creator? God and Lord are only titles.
exactly...and name is human phenomena for identification...nothing more than that...name exist of our language and doesn't exist without it...
It just so happens that I do happen to know the name of the Creator for He spoke it to Moses, and it was recorded.
In compliance by way of the ancient Jewish tradition we use the words “The L-rd” which is the name of G-d appearing in the original Hebrew. The New Covenant books use the name “Yeshua”. The Greek word represented for Yeshua is “Jesus”. The Master was never addressed in Greek but was called in Hebrew “Yeshua ha Mashiach”. The title Christ is “Greek” for Messiah.
The name of G-d from beginning when first spoken was called: “Known” or “The I'am”. Later the name “Yah” was invoked through way of worship.
In further reference to your post related to the Gentiles not being a part of G-d New Covenant. It would be of interest to read G-d word and Position in the matter. Yes, by word of G-d, the Gentiles are no longer enemies of G-d. Under the New Covenant they are Messianists (being one in the Messiah Yeshua).
G-d word says from:
Whats more, the scriptures looked forward to this time when G-d would save the Gentiles also, through their faith. G-d told Abraham about this long ago when He said, “I will bless those in every nation who trust in me as you do.” And so it is: all who trust in the Messiah share the same blessing Abraham received.
(Galatians 3: 26-29) For now we are all children of G-d through faith in Yeshua the Messiah, and we who have been baptized into union with the Messiah are enveloped by Him. We are no longer Jews or Greeks or slaves or free men or merely men or woman, but we are all the same—we are Messianists we are one in the Messiah Yeshua. And now that we are the Messiah's we are the true descendants of Abraham, and all of G-ds promises to him belong to us.
(Galatians 3: 14) Now G-d can bless the Gentiles, too, with this same blessing He promised to Abraham; and all of us as Messianists can have the promised Holy Spirit through faith.
This was the promise to Abraham.
Further information can be sourced from:(1 Corinthians 1:24).
May G-d Our L-rd offer to you by way of His Holy Spirit the understanding and Peace.
I'm Ethiopian, Messiah Jew, if not understood, I'm a Jew whom believe Yeshua to be the Messiah, the Son of G-d and the way I title the word of G-d and L-rd is done by Jews for their purpose, which is to allow G-d our respect. In other words, keeping ourselves informed that He is so worthy that even His written title should be made aware by us that we are not worthy, to do so in full print, for G-d is not common, for there being none like our G-d and there being none like our L-rd but being deserving of up-most respect, for remember our L-rd Yeshua even explains in Matthew 19: 16-17 and Mark 10:17-18 that no one should not speak of anyone as Good, for only G-d is termed Good. This has been the Jewish way for thousands of years.
This is partly true Elisah, but there is mixture in your answer here...some teachings of the Rabbi's, some teachings of the church, and some Torah.
Remember that the 'Jews' are only from one tribe - Yehudah. Remember there are 12 Tribes of Yisrael. not just one.
When a Gentile is grafted in, he does not become a 'Jew' -- he/she becomes an Yisraelite. He has to follow the SAME commands - one Torah for both the stranger/foreigner, as YHWH gave to His people Yisrael.
The church is a man made structure, and has nothing to do with Torah. Those in the church system must come OUT of her to becaome part of YHWH's bride - who is Yisrael.
Yes, I'm aware of the 12 tribes, for it is Jewish tradition of every family of Israelite title, being that one's mother is a Jew to maintain their position af ancestory throughout generations and maintaining such documents. This in turn allows also for one in my position, one being the first of my family born on American soil the right to be offered the privilege of asylum (citizenship) throughout the Nation of Israel and in my case also Ethiopia; For my mother was Ethiopian but born in Israel and my father was Ethiopian born in Ethiopia. My mother and father were both Jews as were their parents. My family is listed from the tribe of “Dan”.
The documents in a family documentary share a listing (names) of all the descendants from one's tribe dating since the time giving Esau and Jacob some families have listings that date even further. This information was maintained by the Jews through census authorized by govern authorities of Israel since the departure from Egypt.
My mother is Orthodox Jew as was I raised. I, as an adult became a follower of Our L-rd Yeshua ha-Meshiach. For, I believe Yeshua to be the son of G-d. Our long awaited savior. I'm still a Jew and maintain in worship and celebrations, such as the Shabbat and Holidays for they are gifts giving of G-d to Israel. I travel often to all regions as time permits, for I have family in Egypt, Israel and Ethiopia. My desire is for once my departure; My remains are laid to rest in Jerusalem (Salem).
Elish1957: I am sorry to disagree with you but in "The Old Testament" of the Bible was not just given to Moses. Granted The Torah which comprises the first five books of the Bible was given to Moses. What about the books of "Joshua,Daniel, Isaiah,Proverbs, Psalms, Jeremiah Ezekiel, Micah, and others, throughout the history of the Hebrews.
The texts of the "New Testament" begin with the four Gospels of four of Yeshua the Messiah's chosen twelve disciples, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John commonly known as the Gospels of Jesus the Messiah. The knowledge and teachings of Yeshua the Messiah are recorded in different manners by these four different individuals. The Epistles the next twenty-three books of the newtestament texts are shared writings of Luke,the Converted Paul, Peter and John, and lastly we come to the Book of Revelation written by the Apostle John it is a prophetic revelation of things to come, a revelation given by Jeshua, the Messiah, to John to record and report. The Holy Bible, is the only History Book that is claimed by God to be of God for all mankind. The Torah was of God for the Hebrew people.
Hello David Mathews,
I will continue this discussion on Sunday evening for it is time for Shabbat to arrive. May you also have a pleasant Shabbat.
Hello Dave Mathews,
Please, there is no need to excuse yourself in any reply that you may find contradictory of what do not clarify within understanding. I like, yourself, am a servant of G-d; And I can make mistakes. Even the angels make mistakes (Job 4:18) and that scripture confirmation can be sourced from (Genesis 18:20-21) giving the time G-d spoke face to face with Abraham concerning the city of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Concerning The “Authors” related to the biblical books. The information needed to completely offer such clarification is not, which can be explained through brief summary. I can only submit the following information by general format.
First and foremost: The Holy Spirit is the Author of the Complete Bible! The Torah was written by G-d giving unto Moses. The Torah consist of (5) books. The Orthodox Jews consider the Torah (Bible) complete after the (first five books). The Israelites, upon entrance into the promised land; The Prophets of that time being inspired of G-d wrote the following books or commonly known as (transcribing the word of G-d onto scrolls). Those being the books “Joshua” ending with “Malachi”. The Torah, well respected giving of G-d by the hands of Moses is “One Book”. The other remaining books up into “Malachi” are also of “Orthodox Jewish study”. Each book is literally separate in completion, which are called the “Annals of the Kings of Israel”. Each book give the complete doctrine of events during the writing of that Prophet report. The Christian Bible only offer a general study of the giving details. The Annals are viewed and studied by the Jews daily and used during worship and celebrations.
The New Testament is not studied by Jewish authority because many of them did not believe Our L-rd Yeshua to be the awaited promised Messiah from G-d, for during that period the Jews were once again as in Egypt, groaning beneath their burdens, in deep trouble from their oppressors of the Roman Empire. A time of distress and toil for the Jews. They had an intense hatred of Rome due to the persecution and conflict. There were no Prophets and the Jewish religious leaders “The Pharisees” many of them through fear of Rome and self-interest turned greedy against their people. Some Jews accepted “John The Baptist” for they would go and receive the baptism from him (Luke: 3) for as they were told from the ancient “Annals of the Kings” he would come before the Messiah. G-d sent the Savior but many refused to believe. “There were many reasons why, but that is another story. “It being all in G-d plan”. After Our L-rd Yeshua revealed His presence. John the Baptist assignment was complete. After the Assignment of Our L-rd Yeshua; The (12) Jewish disciples were sent out through way of the Holy Spirit, each to individual Gentile regions. Some as a couple. The disciples taught the Torah and it's purpose (2 Timothy 3:16-17) for it offered them the knowledge of G-d (The Father) whom they did not know and those; The great men favored of G-d before them. Yet, giving them the understanding that the New Covenant was also offered to them and the “Law” of the Old Testament was canceled. After the fall of the Roman Empire some (300-400) years after Our L-rd Yeshua; The foundling of the Christian Era began. The Romans and Greeks sought with Jewish scribes, those of belief and non-belief in Our L-rd Yeshua, to translate from the scrolls into scripture; being the Old Testament. The New Testament derived from the manuscript reports and letters that circulated from the early Jewish disciples and witnesses; Being, the teachings of Our L-rd Yeshua. His sacrifice. G-d plan of destruction against those whom follow sin. One's position needed to obtain salvation under the New Covenant. The promise of deliverance and protection and reward to those who follow the L-rd by example. Therefore, even though translated by Gentile scholars, the material it self conformed from that of the disciples. Material was omitted that was felt to jeopardize the than, ruling authorities. “But all hidden things are always revealed by G-d's great might.. The different Christian denominations was due to the individual regions cognitive differences from each group perspective views, from the biblical principles of G-d giving to them by the disciples. David, there is nothing wrong with gaining knowledge of G-d for He is very generous with the giving of wisdom. Just keep focus on what His word says from: (Titus 3:9) so as not to give the upper hand to the adversary (satan).
I would like to share with you a book; Not having any correlation to the topic discussed but contains interesting material. “First Light” by Brodie & Brock (THOENE) pronounced “Tay-nee”. It narratives during the time of Our L-rd Yeshua in (Jerusalem) when ruled by Rome. It is Fiction/Historical; Being a story narrated as fiction but depicts factorial historical events. A great book!
even lord! why? You can use Adonai, why hyphenate Lord?
As a Jew even I'm at a loss to answer why someone would hyphenate the title of their deity ("L-rd") but then spell out name of their deity ("Yeshua.")
According to Jewish tradition, we only spell out the Name in a very few contexts, and certainly never in a place where it is likely to be erased or defaced. Some hold that this only applies to the Name written in Hebrew. Others believe that it also applies to common titles used for the divine in other languages.
It's also not a tradition found in Christianity. The Messianics are a Christian denomination, whose theology is almost always identical to that of Evangelicals. They do try to imitate many Jewish practices for reasons I will not get into here, but often make mistakes (such as claiming that Orthodox Jews believe that the Torah, here defined as the first five books of the bible, is the complete Jewish bible.)
You just spotted another one of those mistakes. In the example you gave, it makes no sense whatsoever to hyphenate the English translation and then write out the Hebrew original.
I guess people are just being too careful. I for one use Hashem or G-d but would occasionally even spell it. I have understood the reason why it is not spoken. And I always say, you cannot speak it because it is not spoken, it is done. You invoke Hashem through actions. Because Hashem is not just a name it is a powerful way of thinking and acting. As usual, the Torah hides great insight in the form of names and prayers. The point being you cannot have it unless you truly are ready to understand it. It makes it a more sacred knowledge. Since you earned it, you treat it with respect and are not most likely prone to misuse. Because Hashem as invocation is so disastrous when used the wrong way. And so it is forbidden.
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