Not TO Him but THROUGH Him

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   Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago

   I know I normally to not press certain issues in the realms of religion, but for some odd reason today my entire being is nerved by this entire belief of Y`shua. Not what he did, but what people seem to be interpreting as what they are supposed to do: Bring people to Him.
   
   I have read Torah and the Correspondences (also called New Testament) well, thoroughly in fact, and found NO WHERE Y`shua commands believers to bring people TO Him, but rather that this gift was given THROUGH Him by The Creator and through the gift humans can achieve totality --a greater totality than that of Adam.
   
   What is this obsession with people worshiping Him? Bringing people to Him? As if he were hanging on the corner waiting for every human to show up!!!
   
   It was He who is quoted as saying: "you will do GREATER works because
   1. I am going to sit with the Father (my work is done)
   2. Am sending the Teacher (the Spirit --ruach-- which raised me from the dead).
   
   
   James.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yup - a religionist. As prophesied.

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         Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Marcus,
         Either A, you didn't read it thoroughly or B your liquored up.
         I am merely asking a question about words in a book. I have a few more questions for Equationistas/Quantumites, if you would like to hear them as well...How that makes me a "religionist" is --well-- only known to you, it seems.
         
         Still, maybe you can answer this for me, since you know the religions so well --you were/are a Catholic or Anglican, yes?
         
         Thanks,
         
         James.

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            aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            It appears that everyone who posts in the religion forum is either a religionist, or an anti-religionist.
            
            No middle ground, it seems.
            
            Well there is, but they don't usually post in this forum.
            
            BTW, Jesus said that if HE be lifted up, He will draw all men unto Himself. So, we are to lift Him up. (Whatever that may mean to you?)
            
            He also said that "I and the Father are ONE", so, if a person worships Jesus, He also worships the Father.
            
            That's just two references for you.

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               Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Precisely DJ,
               He will do the drawing to himself not believers drawing people to him. But the process by which he draws people to him is greatly different from what appears today, yes? (he draws mankind by the word of his power (ruach, spirit which upholds all things v. people drawing people by the power of their words --Sunday preachers)
               
               The second part, I disagree with, for two reasons:
               
               One: anyone... who has the Spirit in them, is of Creator and therefore also one with Creator. This happens by the Spirit seeding the word (ruach) of the Father-- (same ruach, same Spirit at creation and that lifted Y`shua up, not the words in books like Torah and/or Correspondences (aka New Testament) --in the person who is drawn to Him. So, are we to worship ourselves or another living man? I would rhetorically say no, that is a type of ba`al. Second, the script mentions, post first resurrection, Y`shua again sites the Father as the focus, that we -meaning mankind who accepts the gift- are also his brothers. And the measure of works (by faith, that is again the ruach in man) would exceed his works because he was returning to the Father -fulfilling the law/prophecy requirements. At which time, the Spirit would once again dwell with mankind. Completing the promise of total restoration of body-mind-spirit to an existence greater than Adam.
               
               This is where my question sits: why then do millions worship (more so) a living man, than the One who sent the firstborn and the Spirit? I know some even worship the Spirit (falsely) claiming gifts of the Spirit they do not have...
               The fruit is like that story of the fig tree that he touched and it withered. The believers share nothing in common yet should share all things --mental, spiritual, material items-- in common, if their belief is true, yes?
               
               James.
               
               ps, as for Marcus, he is quite harmless, in my opinion.

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   just_curiousposted 14 years ago

   I think Jesus and God are one, but I'm with you, it isn't a mandate that we bring people into the faith. Jesus was all about changing yourself. I don't know that he ever spoke to the people and told them to run out and bring somebody with them to the next sermon on the mount. I am sure some people that actively try to convert others have good intentions, but they often do more harm than good.

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