1. god is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent being
2. this being exist
3. he has no beginning and there was nothing before him.
4. he created everything
If you can define nothing, define infinite, define mystery, define the interconnectedness of both manifest and mystery then you will have a definition of God.
Since no one can, it is a pointless exercise.
Lord Krishna explains God as the Ultimate conciousness which is every souls' destination therefore God is any soul that has balanced the individual conciousness to the ultimate conciousness.
Lord krishna 5000 years ago described the soul as energy that it isn't born nor does it die, it is timeless, it is eternal and it is forever.
Therefore, god is that energy in the Universe that has learned it's true conciousness and submitted into it.
Hi jomine, I agree with most things you attribute to God, the only exception is that I do not believe that God created everything. You see I believe that God and everything else has always been there and the definition of my God is that God is pure life energy and the life force of the whole universe.
Well that is what I believe in, check out my religious writings to see what I mean, if you can spare the time.
Do you realize that tihs-god was found from 159,000,000 years ago? Amazing how some of the self righteous are so short sighted that they completely ignore the fact and reverse facts to suit a backwards approach to selling reality and just spam the forums of the word with it!
My Reply..... "Foohw! Foohw!"
Pearldiver, your statement answers nothing. Where is your proof on what you say? Where is the proof that it is fact? Real or not real, it is only a BELIEF that God exists or a BELIEF that God does not exist. There is not enough evidence on either side to prove either one's case. There is no harm in what you choose to believe.
also there is no explanation for god's existence nor what he is doing.
The explanation for his existence and what he is doing is in the good book. It's all a matter of what you choose to believe.
the following are a list of "good" books of various religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_ … _religions
which one did you mean?
Define - tihs-god
Or - Whoof Whoof!
My statement is as Relevant as the OP.... It is of at least Equal Non-Sense.... Thank You Very Much!
Not enough evidence?
We have NO evidence at all of any gods. We have all the evidence in the world that none of the things claimed for gods can be true.
There is absolutely no proof dating God. We can date the earth as far back as we can find evidence. We can date species of animals such as dinosaurs etc. on earth. We can date mankind, as far back as evidenced through science, archeology and testing, but no one can set a date for God. God created all including time.
is god omnipotent enough to change the future he omniscient-ed?
if god is omnipresent what gives him shape for him to exist?(existence being the physical presence with location)
matter is eternal so need of in creation.
creator is impossible
one another reason is the forum by picunix
for which this is a continuation as so many people says so many different things about god.
Sooo you're basing your post off of what pc says that there has to be rules in order for a god to exist, simply because our tiny little minds can't comprehend the possibility of anything existing outside the scientific laws built by men who lived ages before us in an attempt to prove what their world was really shaped like and why things happened the way they did?
Let me get this straight. My tiny little mind cannot comprehend, but yours can?
Did I say that I can? I don't think you read that quite right. I am stating that not one single person on earth can comprehend the idea of some thing possibly existing outside of these scientific laws created by people that lived ages before us. People that, according to a lot of previous arguments, were less intelligent than us today. People that did not have anything like the technology we have today. But yet we still live by these laws created by them, and why? Because they make sense, and they give us a little comfort zone so we can build off of their ideas and make our own. As far as we can go back without botched writing of history, there have been scientific rules defining how things can and can not be, because we can't work out little problems here and there to see past the limitations we have set for ourselves. It's like thinking outside of the box on a much larger scale, something we can't seem to figure out because it doesn't make sense. So while every one's out and about arguing who is right and who is wrong, we've got little working scientists in their buildings trying to break that wall to be able to prove or disprove the idea of a God existing. But that will never happen, and as I've stated already, because we can not understand how, and we never will. That is why this rather seemingly simple thing is defined by the word "faith." We can not force people to believe a god exists, we can not force people to believe a god does not exist. It's a matter of what we want in our life. No one can seem to accept even that concept and that just shows there how little our minds can really comprehend.
Logic disproves the notion of a god - yet you claim to understand that there is something called god? Now you say you do not comprehend it, yet you are tying to explain it to me?
You admit you have no comprehension and assume that I lack the comprehension skills also.
Not believing in god is not the same as believing.
I will explain as simply as possible -
You believe in god despite there being no evidence and claim that it is something you do not comprehend - so - you believe in something you are incapable of understanding and then try and justify it and explain it to me.
I do not believe in this incomprehensible thing you cannot understand or explain - or even define.
Not the same at all.
If it can't be explained, understood or defined at all why don't you tell me the reason for all the hundreds of thousands of explanations, evidence, interpretations and the one same definition for any form of a god? You still are not understanding what I'm getting at and for some one who seems so intelligent I find that rather disappointing that you keep twisting what I say into something you see fit. Hmm...sounds a lot like what you say religious people do to support their religions. Funny really. Waiting for your oh so witty reply back (:
Dear me. You are the one saying it is incomprehensible. I understand exactly what you are getting at. As I said in the first place - you are defining it, explaining it and claiming to have a book it wrote - yet at the same time are saying it is incomprehensible.
Which is it? Do you comprehend it? Or not?
No no no. See you are still trying to mix it up. Defining it, explaining it, and claiming to have a written book are not the same as the idea of the belief. The belief itself is what I want to understand more. We, as human beings, can not prove the existence or non existence because we can not think past what we consider to be logical. And my proof of that is in the arguments presented by you and various others in which you state it is not logical. Logic, as I have stated, is a limitation of the mind which is where the idea that the belief itself or non belief itself is incomprehensible.
What? Try saying that again please. Believing nonsense is not the same as not believing nonsense. You choose to believe nonsense - I do not.
You are the one making a claim - I am simply saying it is nonsense. Your argument then seems to be that I cannot comprehend something which you do.
There is no limitation to logic. It simply disproves your god. Nothing can exist outside of logic.
Hey, your reply sounds like nonsense. His is pretty honest. Just an opinion.
And again with saying I comprehend something no one can? My argument is that no one can comprehend the belief that something can possibly exist outside of our known laws of limitations. And my proof of this lies in your arguments back. You are stating that it is nonsense. Nonsense is, in other words, not logical. Which in turn means incomprehensible. Because it doesn't agree with the laws of our limitations, it is not logical. It is because of our own selves limiting our own capabilities that such beliefs to others seem nonsensical and illogical. Why is it so bad for people to take that step of faith in seeing that there is more past these limits we have created? This is talked about also in the bible, which has also been deemed illogical, nonsensical, and a bunch of b.s. If it's so fake, and the people that wrote this book way before our time, which have been said to be far less intelligent than us, why is it they were able to understand that we can not comprehend anything existing outside of our own created limitations, but yet took that step of faith in believing that it is at least possible?
Yet you are claiming to comprehend that something can exist outside our known laws - not sure what limitations you are talking about, but I can go with laws of logic and physics.
Or are you not saying that you comprehend this? I am confused.
I comprehend the belief just fine thanks - It is nonsense. I comprehend why you need to believe it, and peopel believe all sorts of nonsense. I believe I will one day win the Euro millions Lottery - it is of course nonsense because I actually stand a 76,000,000,000:1 chance of winning - but that doesn't stop me paying E2 a week.
Let me restate that - I comprehend exactly why you believe there is a majical super being. But - that is not what you said. What you said was this:
So - please stop lying about what you said. Once again - I comprehend why you believe it. I comprehend the possibility of something existing outside the laws of "science" and logic. Nothing can exist outside the laws of physics and logic - it is nonsense to think it can. That does not mean I do not comprehend it - just that I think it is nonsense.
And your argument yet again that it is nonsense because of the idea of it is not logical only shows evidence to what I am trying to say
No. I am saying it is nonsense - you are claiming superior comprehension skills.
The idea that something can exist outside of the laws of logic and physics is nonsense - you are telling me I do not understand something that you do understand. And - you are telling untruths, which I understood was against your laws.
Little wonder your religion causes so many wars.
..Or could it be guns dont kill-people do?
My point being ,just because they kill in the name of God ,does that make it Gods fault?
Sure - whatever works for you to defend your belief system. Pol pot was an atheist and "they were not real christians" seem to be big favorites.
A persons actions are defined by their values (or lack of them).
I believe in God and he said You shall not murder-so I dont.
You still claim that I say I have superior comprehension skills which still tells me you don't truly understand what I am getting at. This is disappointing for some one of your intelligence. You seem to be very smart, you just aren't understanding it and you keep twisting what I say to what you see fit.
Mark...You really aren't as smart as I thought you were. I'm really disappointed that you can't understand a concept that should be so simple to some one like you
You keep saying I do not understand something that you understand. Then you say you do not understand. It is beyond your tiny mind.
I understand just fine thanks. Because I think it is complete nonsense does not mean I do not understand it.
It is not a simple concept to me, because what it does is fill in the gaps in your understanding with "god dunnit," which is no answer at all. It is only a simple concept to some one such as yourself - to me it is a very complex concept, for reasons you probably would not comprehend.
I prefer not to swallow such utter garbage and can honestly say "I don't know," to some questions. I feel no need to fill that in with "god dunnit."
Logically - a god can not exist. Unless you use majik. You are using majik to fill the gaps in your knowledge, and this seems to work for you. What makes you think I would want to limit my understanding of existence as drastically as you do? I am still looking for answers and I do not need to fill the gaps in with majik.
So - please stop telling me I do not comprehend. It is offensive and I am not as ignorant and unimaginative as your religion has told me I am for my entire life. Sorry - you have been lied to. There is no majik bullet and the placebo you swallow every morning to stop the fear of the unknown is just that - a placebo.
The "Ignorance is Bliss," pill.
Honestly - I sometimes wish I was mentally limited enough to swallow it myself. Perhaps this is why old people sometimes convert on their death beds? As your mental faculties leave - so does your resistance to swallowing the "ignorance is bliss" pill?
The passive aggressive "not as smart as you thought I was" and condescending "disappointment," in me is not working for me either. Calling me stupid for not believing garbage is what your religion teaches you is the "right" thing to do - I know - but I wonder if you understand that this is one of the root causes of the conflicts your religion always causes?
If you can't comprehend it so it must exist? Wow. What kind of backward nonsense thinking is that? Man created gods because they had no answers. God dun it is the easiest answer there is and completely meaningless.
Science is not out to prove or disprove god. It can't be falsified so it is a meaningless question to science. People who build on science and explain the cosmology and origin through it are engaging in science philosophy.
Nothing wrong with that, I do it myself. The point it, science philosophy is not science itself. But theists don't get that. Don't say science is out to prove or disprove a god. It isn't. People are and they are using science to do it.
But there is also logic. Take your claim of omnipotence. Omnipotence is impossible. There is always a limitation to it. That fact is illustrated in the question: can a god build a rock so heavy it can't lift it? Either way, whether it can or cannot, it loses its illusion of omnipotence. There is always a limit.
But the worst part is that though theists admit there is no proof of a god, they try to sell it as if it is a fact. That's lying. Don't speculate and try to sell it as fact. You cannot know that a god exists. So until you prove it, it is not much better than the idea of bigfoot. The probability is that it is total fantasy.
....couldn't have expressed it better myself!
2 thumbs up! :
And back to the logic, being a limit of the mind created also by man. It's not logical for something to co-exist with something of equal or greater power, in example "Unstoppable force meets immovable object." It's illogical for such a thing to exist because the two just would not work together. By logic, we can not fly, because we weren't born with wings or the body frame to do so. By logic we can not go to space because we can not survive without oxygen. By logic we can not have light or power with out a running water source or a fire. By logic we are completely limited to ground movement, the occasional jump, hop or skip, riding horses and doing nothing but harvesting the land to live. It's not that I'm trying to make the existence of a god a fact. I'm not trying to prove anything other than the one fact that logic is a limitation of the mind making things we can't fully comprehend impossible. By your final argument that you cannot know that a god exists because there is no proof, falls back to similar arguments as "Love does not exist because you can not see it or hold it." Though it is rare to find a person that does not believe love exists, and when you do, there is generally some emotional damage done to that person that made them lose that belief. But by that standard that would mean the same general concept for atheists, which would then be considered illogical because the two don't compare. Logic limits the mind and the full capabilities of humans. But it seems to be a common trend we all follow, whether we want to admit it or not. By that standard, this whole world is nothing but a total fantasy.
You are not very logical are you? But you don't want to be. Logic sets you free to think and get actual answers. We can fly because we thought it through rationally and discovered how to. We still can't do it without aid though. That will never happen.
If you don't think rationality and logic are worth anything why are you arguing? How are you arguing? Argument requires rational and logical thought to be meaningful. What is it you are doing exactly?
And you are about 100 years behind in your perception of atheists. W don't go around saying seeing is believing anymore. Materialism has evolved greatly over the past hundred years. I can show energy exists but I can't see it. I can prove wind exists but can't see it.
You will have to try another argument.
As for love. It is easy to explain.. It is a person empathizing with another. It is in essence a person trying to make another part of themselves. I did a hub on this called: There is no such thing as a selfless act.
My arguments are not siding with the limitations of logic. Logic greatly limits the possibilities we have of life. We never would have attained the ability to fly if it weren't for the "crazy, irrational and illogical thoughts" of a couple people who thought "Why can't we fly?" Back in their days that thought was considered illogical. Of course now with technological advances it is very logical that we can fly. My perception of atheists? My perception of atheists are a group of people who do not believe a god exists. That is all. That was just an example of the argument you brought, and what some people like to call a "counter argument." A lot of these things that people just HAVE to prove through the limitations of logic are all opinion based. We will never be able to prove either or and that is the foundation of the simple word I have mentioned already called Faith.
Had those crazy guys not used logic they would have failed like so many before. But before that some crazy guy invented air balloons so we could already fly by then. It was never illogical to want to fly. Only illogical to try it by flapping our arms.
Again, a strange argument.
Faith is the belief that a speculative idea with no evidence to back it up is fact. To me that is lunacy. But you are correct. Faith is not rational, let alone logical. Perhaps Wilber and Orville should just have had faith and flapped their arms as hard as they could regardless of the fact it didn't help the first hundred time they tried it?
You are trying to tell me logic and rationality are meaningless and at the same time trying to persuade me your argument is rational. How contradictory can you get?
And the sad thing is that he thinks it is you that doesn't make sense. How utterly absurd.
Your assumptions are rather absurd. Did I once say that he didn't make sense? No. I am not claiming a thing, other than that "logic" and the scientific laws created by man only limit our abilities to discover more. And who says that flying had to be strictly when the first air plane was created? There were many before any of these creations that had the thought of trying to find a way to fly, but they were considered absurd and illogical and crazy because we were not born with the ability to fly. They were called "free thinkers." People that did not let the laws of man limit what they dreamed of being able to some day achieve. Logic is irrational when trying to discover or create something no one has ever been able to achieve. And when that new thing is achieved it later becomes logical that it happened because we're humans and we are just oh so smart and everything that we can make happen is logical but until it can happen it is crazy and illogical.
Scientific laws are not created by man, they are discovered. The idea that logic is what limiting is absurd. Rather it has always been religion that has limited science.
So you're saying that scientific laws just appear out of no where? Yet the idea of a greater being is absurd? They both just seem to come out of no where. What's so bad about it then, if both have no real origin other than just "appearing."
No travis. You said they appear out of nowhere. I have said no such thing. Before that you said we invented them. If you are going to attack straw men of your own making what is the point? Try to stay with the program. Science studies nature and finds out how it works. Do you go to hospitals when you get sick? Why bother? Your faith should be able to cure you. If science wasn't there looking for answers we would still all be dying in ignorance at 35.
Please. I know you don't like rationality but just try it. It can be fun.
it is a continuation along with something that was not discussed by PC.
what is there too difficult to comprehend?
we have not heard or seen god, in fact no normal human beings ever did.
there is no rational explanation for god.
all we have is some imaginary beings written in some books of doubtful authorship along with some magic tricks that is described in that books which nobody else except those who follow it agree.
we see magic tricks by magicians and wonder at there prowess. we wonder how such things are done. we never inquire too deeply into it as we are lazy and also the knowledge destroys the fun of magic. but nobody WORSHIP a magician because he is human. but when some natural phenomenon is seen, seemingly unexplainable, we immediately ascribe it to some imaginary being in skies and then worship the being of our imagination instead of rationally inquiring the details.
that is why there are gods which NO HUMAN has rationally explain but still being believed by multitudes with out questioning.
As I have continuously pointed out that neither of you can seem to understand yet again, no one being can comprehend the idea of some possible being living out side of the laws of limitations which we have created for ourselves. Believing is not saying you understand it. It's simply saying you believe a god exists. Not saying you know why or how. It's the same as the big bang theory. There is no proof of its existence yet people make these bogus claims, the same that people do with their religions. The thing is, if the big bang is true, that also means something had to exist outside of these laws of limitations we have created for ourselves in order for it to happen. You can not sit here and say that there was nothing and then suddenly a big explosion randomly happened in this big empty nothingness and created the universe and all life as we know it. There is nothing to back it up, other than scientific theories and beliefs. Scientific beliefs are becoming a religion in its own, where the big bang is the god like creature and evolution is the continuous living of this god like creature. Nothing in any of our billions of theories made can be explained with logic. Logic is a limitation of our minds created by people before us. Logic is an invalid argument.
If there is a god, he would probably dispair that the people he somehow created where wasting the lives worshipping him instead of enjoying their short lives and believing that he built something else called "heaven". If there is a god, then I suspect that he would see those who couldn't care less about his existance as those who are doing things the right way, if he really wants us all to get down on our hands and knees and worship him then he is an egotistical and narcissistic individual who can get f*cked. I don't worship anybody or anything upon request. And to end my rant, if there is a devil who was banished to the middle of the earth then the likelyhood is that whoever or whatever banished him did so with the intention that he plays no part in society. Clearly the devil, if he exists, still does play a large role in our society.
If god wants to be worshipped then he just needed to create a couple of dogs and feed them treats once and a while - works for me, I'm not going to be his dog. All hypothetical of course, I'm not insane enough to believe that he exists. I believe that jesus existed, and I'm sure he was a nice enough bloke, but he died a long time ago and there are plenty of other nice blokes on this planet of 6 million that I can befriend, speak highly of, and go to the pub with to drink wine with. I just hope that people in 2011 years time don't take Harry Potter too literally, else people will be worshipping him instead.
'God' is simply a catch-all word used by people with enormously disparate beliefs to describe their own imaginary friend/s. 'God' differs from 'religion' in the sense that while imaginary friends can do no harm, the omnipotent attributes ascribed by 'believers' to their respective imaginary friends in the name of 'religion' have been proven over millenia to be the root cause of countless acts of violence that continue today, but which would not be tolerated for an instant by a real and benificent god. None has yet emerged, proving by this very absence, that no such being exists. As the saying goes, 'God save us from those who claim to act in his name'.
Hi Jomine. I don't think, at this point, it is possible to define God. We don't have the knowledge or understanding. We are all moving forward. Maybe once we understand the true nature of the universe we'll have a better idea, since that is apparently one of the routes he expects us to use to answer the question.
For now, the best we can do is look inside ourselves to find the piece that connects us to Him and trust that piece is the one He thinks we need as individuals.
if we know about nothing, whom are we worshiping?
We worship our understanding of the nature of the Divine. No one knows it all, in my opinion. The way you worship is a reflection of what you see beyond this world.
Many people worship many things they know nothing about but it invokes feelings in them so they continue to worship. Like money, sex, spouse, children, friends, food, job, movies, music. Anything that brings happiness or joy they worship. The list goes on and on. Each are worshiping to a greater or lesser degree a part of what makes the whole. Worshiping God is not worshiping the parts only but the whole depending on their level of understanding. We each have our own perceptions of the whole and they are as infinite as the infiniteness of God.
Rubbish, you can't honestly sit there comparing the religious worship of gods to real world scenarios when it's clear that the examples you choose are not myths and superstitions upon which mobs of people burn others at the stake or fly airplanes into skyscrapers for not sharing that gods worship.
Why does this post not surprise me? Every one of her examples could drive someone to fanatical behavior, too. Has it crossed your mind that some people are simply crazy. Anything wil set them off.
Why not? Real world scenario's is worshiping what some do not know. You are still insisting God is something magical and imaginary. When real world and everything in it are expressions of God. How people express themselves is unique and subject to ones perception. Imaginary or real it is still part of what is.
Humanity has much to answer for in their unawareness for sure. This awareness evolves just as anything biological evolves.
That is because no believer is able to distinguish their gods from magic and imagination, hence their gods are not part of the real world, so you can't honestly make comparisons.
That is just a belief, there is no evidence that gods have anything to do with the real world.
So, are you saying that you're aware of things that mankind is not aware?
Nah..... I won't cast them, I'll save my pearls for silk purses
To define God with human minds is quite a contradiction,however His word defines Him well...if you believe
If you dont believe in a god ,except maybe in ones self,then a person cannot define God.
Wrong. I can prove it exists, and I'm an atheist.. You have to prove your version of it is the real one.
1: Existence is a fact. (anyone not agree with that?)
2: Were there ever a time that existence in some capacity was not a fact, nothing could or would now exit.
3: Therefore, existence in some form has always been a fact.
4: What ever has always existed, by default, must be creative. Were it not creative, we would not exist.
5: A creative process or god as defined as that which produced us, is then a fact.
Now your job is to prove it is a conscious being, and not just nature. I have science and logic to back me up when I say it is nature. No god's required. What do you have to put on the table?
No,Science ,in fact everything belongs to God.
Now if you want to disprove God ,find your own dirt and your own tools
Right. I didn't think you could add anything. Telling us you know for a fact your version of god exists is a lie. You can't know that.
Eaglekiwi, Agreed. God's word defines him.
Then he is a pretty mixed up thing, because his 'words" contradict themselves.
He is obviously a cruel and petty sort, of low intelligence. That's what his words say about him.
Pcunix, Your opinion is false and twisted. God is loving, and just. God is immortal and infinite. God is Omnipotent, he is all powerful and Sovereign, meaning he is Supreme. God is holy and gracious. Love and Blessings to you.
Ok, then could you please explain why a loving God was justified with the carnage displayed in this verse:
Rivers of Blood
I will leave your flesh on the mountains, and fill the valleys with your carcass. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens, and all the stars will darken; (Ezekiel 32:5-7 NAB)
Have a blessed day.
AWW....um...is annoying when non-believers pick out a text to suit their agenda.
For example why didn't you quote from say ,Song Of Solomon?
Not to mention they always take little clips of the "bad" parts rather than take the whole and see what it really is. Lovely method! (:
So by quoting from Songs of Solomon, does the horrible psychopathic verses somehow become nullified?
They hate it when they hear the nasty bits so they get mad at you and tell you to quote only nice ones. lol... Oh yes, and "kill every man woman and child" can so easily be taken out of context. We're the bad annoying ones. Holy shit. It amazes me.
No ,but if you want to be truly objective ,then I dont think its appropriate to be selective with regard to reference.
Notice not one of them has addressed the issue you raised. Telling. Very telling.
Maybe because some people aren't sitting here all day long? I simply say instead of taking only that little bit take the whole verse and read it as a whole rather than cutting out that one bit. Taking apart a book to eliminate the parts you don't want leaves very little to say what is fully going on.
Why don't you explain to us what is loving about that entire verse? I'm very interested in hearing it.
Not that I am taking sides on this one... But it can be said that people on both side of this issue each do that same thing...If you cannot accept the bad and understand it then you can have no concept of the good. one cannot be known without the other...In my view of the "loving god", I just think of my kids...I love my kids more than anything in the world...and I there is nothing in my power that I wouldn't do for them. So yes...If you are my child you are going to view me as all loving...but if you are against my child...then you are going to think that I am hateful.
But Christians say we are all god's children. So would you torture your child for eternity if it didn't believe you existed? Would you put dangerous fruit and snakes it's play pen? Would tell one son to go out and wipe out ten of your other children?
I highly doubt it. We would all, christian and atheist, condemn you as an unfit parent if you did any of those things. And yet when it comes to papa god he can do no wrong even when it is clearly wrong by any rational standards.
No. The only analogy that fits the relationship between the christian god and man is tyrant and slave. "Love me, worship me, or go to hell. " Signed God
But why would that bother you ,since you dont believe there is a Hell?
Slarty, I never said that. The bible is clear that all people are God's creation. ( Colossians 1:16), and that God loves the entire world ( John 3:16), but only those who are born again are children of God. ( John 1:12 and 11:52). New birth, being born again, is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the person who believes.
If you are reading a fantasy story about a god that throws people into hell for the massive crime of not stoking it's ego, but the author says it is really all love and light; it is ok in a book review to point out that the writer has a warped sense of right and wrong, let alone love. But you do not have to believe the story is true to make that very rational judgment. Anyone with a bit of sense would make the same comment.
Yet you who believe this fantasy story is true has no problem with it and shares that twisted sense of right and wrong and warped idea of love.
That's what's really shocking.
Glory be to god. Lets dance and watch the sinner fry... I tell ya....
You misquote the author several times,and sadly you have kinda missed the point.
I am reminded of a small child who constantly whines and runs to his Mother with every little complaint ,never understanding her wisdom or love or taking the time to listen and learn.
Woman Of Courage
I don't need ever lasting life. Thanks all the same. To me, the fact that when you die it is over, gives life value. Life is cheap if it goes on for ever. I value all life because it is not forever. Why do you value it?
Most people are bored now. What would you do with ever lasting life?
Why do christians not off themselves in large groups? What are you still doing here if heaven is so fine? You would be with god. Why do you still mourn when people die? It should be a great party. They went to heaven. Praise god for finally killing them.
But you really don't have that much faith do you? I'm not surprised.
what point did I miss? How did I misquote the author? Help me out here. Try to explain your accusations. Set me straight. How can I misinterpret when you or some christian tells me I am going to hell because I don't believe in god? Is that the truth in your view or not? Did god build hell or not? What part of the above did I misinterpret?
Is it is the same kind of whining you are reminded of as a woman going to her to boss with a sexual harassment complaint and he says: Stop whining?
Or like the whistle blower that tells the boss about safety issues and is told to stop whining?
What is it you are trying to cover up with that all too familiar Christian ruse?
I can see when challenged you do not preform well under pressure ,or indeed play well with others
If you had been reading my comments properly ,you would have read that I dont answer to you or have to give an account to you repeatly.
Now you sre beginning to copy my style of debate.
I dont know whether to feel flattered or irritated
But guess what 'Im turning the other cheek'
Yes they do. And I wouldn't do anything bad to my children. Nor would I ignore them for long periods of time and just let them flail around blindly without instruction neither. There is no getting around it...Christians are completely blinded by love...LOL..can't see the forest for the trees...
Slarty, Ok, it's your choice. That's not a fact to many of us. Sounds like your opinion. Feel free to believe what you desire, and I will feel free to believe the inspired word of God. I value life because, no matter how good it is at times, it's nothing compared to the life that awaits me in heaven. The glories of heaven is eternal life, righteousness, joy, peace, perfection, rewards and all else God has planned. Anyone can recieve this amazing promise when they come to God through Jesus Christ. I also value life by helping others who are in need. I stay busy with different things, so I don't allow myself to be bored. I am awaiting the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, that's why I am still here. I encourage you to read the bible to recieve answers to many of your questions. Sorry, but you are unable to determine how much faith I have. Love and Blessings to you.
Interesting, so once you're in heaven, what do you plan to do for an eternity? Won't you get bored? What's there to do in heaven?
Hi Beelzedad, I am glad you find it interesting. Everyone in heaven will Worship God, Serve God, Enjoy God's presence and fellowship, Reign with God and help administer the kingdom, Shine and Share in Jesus glory forever. No one will be under the curse of sin in heaven. There will be no more sickness and suffering. Living life for eternity in heaven will be the best life to live. In Luke 23:43, Jesus declared, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with me in paradise." The word Jesus used for paradise is paradeisos which means " a park. This is just not any park, but the paradise of God which will be a place of future happiness. I am not bored with the nice ordinary parks in my area. I have no reason to believe the paradise of God will be boring. What a magnificent place heaven will be!
Apparently, you cannot fathom or even begin to understand "eternal", "eternity" or "infinity". WOW!
So why can't your God create these conditions on earth? Do you see how you are being duped? Why should we have to play a foolish childish game with an omniscient being in order that we may have these conditions you described--after we die?
You have been COMPLETELY conned...the only heaven that exists is in your head. I wish there were some way that you could see this after you die, because I would love to see the look on your face.
And, aside from anything else you do in your current life on earth, is that going to be enough for you to do forever and ever and ever? You will never want to do anything else for all time?
Can you imagine the tedium of the same thing over and over and over? Still - she gets to administer the invisible kingdom.
getitrite, I encourage you to read the Book of Revelations in the bible. After the events of the end times, the current heaven and earth will be done away with and replaced by heaven on earth. The new earth is the "heaven" on which believers will spend eternity. I don't know why you ask me questions when you reject and refuse to believe the word of God. If your next reply is to argue, there will be no response from me. Love and Blessings to you. Take care.
WOC you should go up to the top right corner of the page, and click on chronological. That way you will know that you are responding to the right person.
And I don't think you really should be asking me to read even more nonsense from a book that I have already proven to be absurd.
Talk about rigid blind faith. Oh! Love and Blessings to you.
Cagsil, I feel sad for you. I can see that you are insecure and you enjoy trying to make others appear dumb. You are really hurting yourself when you do this in order to feel good. I guess it gives you some type of power for your ego. I don't allow you to make me feel bad. My self esteem is not low.
Woman Of Courage
Well thank you for saying something. It's certainly more than I have gotten out of Eaglekiwi. I see how important religion is to you. Why then do you come to subject yourself to this? It can't be easy for you. It's fun for a while, particularly when you are with others giving high fives. But it must get tough at times with people insulting your belief by saying it is fantasy.
Are you testing that faith? Or yourself perhaps? Are you not afraid that something that is said might take root and grow? That's always a danger with communication like this.
A line you wrote kind of struck me: " I am awaiting the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, that's why I am still here." That's why I am still here....
If you mean it, that sounds like you have been through some very tough times.
I thrive on debate and word conflict. But there some people that perhaps shouldn't go there. But you are right. I don't know you. Perhaps you thrive on this kind of thing too, and I've just read into what you said.
In any case; be happy.
Slarty, You are welcome. I became a christian because I love God for who he is. God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son to die for sins. No, you got me wrong. I don't need to give others high five to have fun as a christian. The Joy of the Lord is my strength, so no matter what is happening, I still have joy. It doesn't bother me when unbelievers in this forum attack my faith. It will not stop me from rejoicing and serving God. I just think it's childish and immature for grown people to mock the believer's faith when they don't believe that God exist.The only thing that will take root is for me to continue to grow in the Lord. It may be a danger to another person, but not me. When I first reached out and seeked God, he touched my life, and my life has never been the same. No one can get me to believe that God is not real. Everyone have been through some tough times, because we all have to suffer. My life has become much better when I accepted Jesus for he is my strength. No, I don't thrive on debate. I rather have civilized discussions. Thanks, I am happy and not a miserable Christian. You be happy also. Take care.
Taken out of context or not, why would any sane person need to convey ANY message by using this kind of sick, disturbing, violent language?
One of 'them' or one of 'you'
Aww..Isnt it odd that we are all made up of flesh and blood,yet the only thing that separates us is 'What we believe in',which is exactly how the law of sin works, interesting.
Well you would fist have to prove that there is sin in a biblical context. You can't even prove your god exists but continue to lie about it and try to pass it off as fact. I think a lie is a sin, isn't it? How do you reconcile that?
You think lying is a sin?
Why would you think that?
I think it is wrong. You think it is a sin. Why is it you can't ever just answer a question?
Im tryng to understand your morals a little.
So if you think lying is wrong,what makes you think that ,actually thats probably another topic good/bad/conscience etc.
Of course I answer questions ,you just dont like/agree with my answers
Kia ora Kare from the frozen Northern Hemisphere.
I survived the humidity of the South and now the Artic blast.
Am I allowed to say Holy Crap in here
I remember the day when the snow melted away and the great snowman was wed....la la la..
Slippery ha! Dodgy hommie lol
Since he has never said or written a word a guess it does define him. lol....
Grabs W.O.C by the hand and twirls around the room singing soflty so as to be sensitive to all the serious ,solemn and killjoys out there
I believe God has also, and he is worthy of all the praise and glory.
Amen....sound of a hundred trumpets....Amen
Belief is worthless. Do you also believe the world is flat? If not, I wonder why not. Your bible tells you it is.... Amen. lol... .
I believe God has also, and he is worthy of all the praise and glory.
with the simple problem that you don't know who this god fellow is and all you can say is it is written in a book called bible whose authors are unknown, which is edited by so many people, so many times, which is interpreted literally and allegorically that nobody knows what it really means.
Hi jomine. If you are looking to the Bible for answers I think it is helpful to simply read the Bible without letting preconceived notions gathered from religious teaching get in your way, as much as possible. Skip the prophets. Read the first five books, then the history of Israel. Then the Gospels.
Once you've ingested that, read the rest of the New Treatment. Skip Revelations.
The prophesies are the most misunderstood and cause the most confusion for me. I see little value in trying to foretell the future. On either plane.
The Bible is unique, in that it speaks to everyone individually, if you just let it do it.
I think the word god can be most generically defined as what ever produced this universe and everything in it. However, pagans and polytheists see gods as just being immortal beings sharing this world on a different plain of existence. Most of them have nothing to do with a creation.
But they do all have at least one top go who often is responsible for at least the universe, and others responsible for creating humans.
So if god is that which produced us, then there is a god as we have not always existed.
But, there is nothing in logic that says a god has to be conscious or self aware. Therefore that which produced all this may be a process. The process of existence. In other words, nature itself.
No gods required.
That guy in the dirty lab coat that is getting ready to pull the plug…
Define god?- Simple- the "word" "god" is a metaphor. A metaphor is used within language as something to describe something else.
There happens to be much confusion as to what the metaphor actually describes.
We are all just figments of our own imagination. Nothing is real.
So say the Hindus. We are all just god's dream.... So the question is, why is this god having such nightmares?
yeap i agree with this statement! sometimes everything seems like a dream and there is always more questions then answers....and that is what constantly is pushing the limits.
but i dont think God is having nightmares. There is SO much beauty around! i dont know to tell much about Bible but i remember saying "if then the light in you is darkness, how great your darkness will be!"
I definitely cant define God but it puzzles me how we all talk about God as "him" . if it is just some "super ultimate Omnipotent conciseness" how come it has gender?
Well I was thinking wars, cancer, disease, suffering, cruelty. He's dreaming all that too right? Not just our rather nice lives. I admit if he was only dreaming of me he wouldn't be doing bad.
About why give it gender? You might as well ask the French why every inanimate object has a gender according to them. We're sex crazy, I suppose.
But probably it has to do with ancient man being macho. A female god doesn't seem powerful enough. Besides which, back then men owned everything including their wives and children. If a god owned them it would have to be male.
And if man was made in the likeness of god it is obvious god must be a man. Otherwise we would all be woman. Right? no?...
However there were matriarchal societies where woman was top dog and the goddess was god.
I'll tell you..... I've been married 30 years and I still worship at the alter of the goddess as often as possible.
in short no theist comprehend nor understand god,not even know what god is...
still they worship a god and continue to say there is god...
and try to prove the existence of something they do not know about.......
well mate when i sit on the beach, feel the sand under my feet, plunge in a water, put my goggles and dive -i just could feel awe for the beauty around me!
what other evidence you need that there is some creator/s to all of his. how would you explain all the colours,smells, tastes, shapes,sounds,textures ,,,around us. you dont have to be theist to appreciate unmistakable miracle of life
if you go to the remotest parts of Africa or Asia you will find death, ugliness and like
does that prove the existence of god?
have you heard the saying "beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder". if we are not here to appreciate the beauty there is no beauty only different forms of matter in its eternal glory!!
Bugger that Slushy Stuff EK
What a total waste of good holy socks on a cold day.. fighting for soles to darn on a thread like this one Though I see you've picked up a couple of Grinders (from this thread) for your America's Cup Short Organ Donor Hub
Say Hi on this thread:
I'm Not Hijacking... just planting a traffic light on This Desolate Island
"What's there to do in heaven?" Exactly what I have always wondered.
Certainly I can't see how any human can define God- People don't hardly anything about God- the bible I'm certain of tells only a fraction of life.
If we are to believe God created all life then we barely understand the a brain how can someone who designed and created a brain even for the simpliest creature like a Nat, who can define such a being?
who created brain?
it evolved through millions of years- no need of a creator there
if you insist everything need a creator who created the creator?
The topic is define God maybe you missed that?
U sed you cannot then rambled on demonstrating that you do not understand how brains evolved and were not created. Maybe you missed that?
What is there to add - you say you are incapable of defining this god thing. The End. Why are you still here?
One could very easily ask you the same question. Although we know what your answer would be.
Thing about evolving perhaps you experts can explain why the brain was created the way they are now-WHY WERE THEY CREATED THIS WAY? WHY THIS WAY?
They were not created. It evolved through a process which can best be described as "trial and error." They were not CREATED.
What do you mean, this way? What way? We have triune brain. Center we have a reptile brain. On top of that and wrapped around it we have the old mammal brain like dogs and cats have. On top of that we have a new mammal brain that we and the primates share.
"who can define such a being?" I can. If it gets me through the day.
"WHY THIS WAY?" Maybe it has to correspond to planetary conditions.
planetary conditions isn't saying anything to design of the brain or how and why if functions the way it does? Nor does it explain why the ability for one brain to be more advance then another brain.
So, then, who designed the creator's brain? Why this way?
How do you know the creator even has a brain? We can't even see angels but we understand what God must look like and he has look the creatures he created????
does someone make a can opener and not tell anyone why and how to use it?
"forever and ever and ever?" Would only memory make forever possible?
I believe that God is a supreme being and that we should strive toward the ideals of showing kindness and compassion to others, working hard but also resting, and basically trying to make responsible choices as much as possible. Since all of us fall short of the ideals, forgiveness is necessary.
However, having been raised in the Roman Catholic faith and marrying a born-again Christian nearly 40 years ago, I will say that both of us believe that formal religion has been the root of many problems throughout history. We dropped out of our respective churches 40 years ago when both refused to marry us unless one converted to the other religion (as if there were two separate gods). We've never looked back and never regretted our decision --- and I feel just as close to God today as when I attended mass.
For those who have memorized the bible, doesn't God state that we should go someplace private to pray to him?
Interesting, although I can't help to see a contradiction there in that you left your churches because they wouldn't marry you and yet you feel closer to your god. Wouldn't leaving the churches in the first place be and action of defying your god and his word?
No, because no church should decide who is a believer and who is not. That is something intimate between the individual and God.
I read the bible and subscribe to online catholic blogs written by other women. However, I do not see a difference in whether people call themselves Roman Catholic, Methodist, Southern Baptist or any other Christian name. All worship the same god and accept the same savior. The churches hurt all Christians by condemning each other.
But, to go against your church is to go against your god, it is one and the same, is it not? How is possible for you to have even gained any of your beliefs without the church?
Online blogs have nothing to do with gods word and the church.
Yet, they do call themselves by different names because there is disagreement in the beliefs. That's the point entirely.
Isn't that blasphemy?
Actually, there is no place in the bible (that I am aware of) that mandates the people to attend church. God (and the angels) spoke to people as individuals throughout the Old Testament.
Even when the woman touched the hem of Jesus' robe and was cured, Jesus told her to go home and pray. We are told to pray privately rather than put on a pious display.
Don't get me wrong. I thoroughly enjoyed attending mass and participating in church life. But, ultimately, it is for us to follow God's plan for our lives. And I sincerely believe that his plan was for my husband and I to be married and grow old together (which we have). He has blessed us throughout our marriage even though we live modestly.
My problem with both the born-again and the catholic churches is that each one told us that people of the other faith were not Christian. That got me angry because they were playing God by deciding who was going to Heaven and who was not. If you accept Jesus as your savior, then you are Christian regardless of a man-made church label of Catholic or Protestant. That was why we dropped out of church life.
Funny how that is considering the number of churches existing.
Do you think that would have more to do with the social aspect of religions as opposed to the theological?
I suppose that would say a lot about what people will do regardless, because they want to follow their own moral principles rather than what the church prescribes.
I applaud the both of your for doing so.
It is interesting to note that non-believers experience the exact same actions by those who are righteous in their beliefs, and then wonder why people get angry at them. I would say that is a very important event for you and your husband in regards to questioning the faith.
Although I may not share your beliefs, I certainly do applaud you and your husband for the choices you made and hope you both lead long and happy lives together.
No not all.
Jesus challenged many churches ,and still does
Why? It's not a proper name. The word god is not the name of a god.
Isn't that a title rather than a proper name? At least Jesus is a proper name, man, god or made up story. Doesn't matter. It's Yahweh, with a capital Y if you are Jewish, or are partial to the bible.
But even that can't be his real name. In the old stories it told that Lilith said the real name of god and was instantly turned in to a wind demon. His real name is somewhat of a secret. If you happen to know it I wouldn't recommend saying it too loud. You don't want to find yourself at the edge of the Red Sea having 100 demon babies every day. It sounds like hard work.
Oh my, is the sky blue ?
I bet you cant walk into a supermarket ,buy 5 items and walk back out in under 10mins either..
Was that a change of subject? I bet I can.
No ,it definately was not a change of subject ,more a noticable volume of thoughts on someones name, ie god v God, proper names v improper name.
Jevhovah name v title (they can be and are the same thing in this instance)
Didnt understand the rest that followed. Demons.or something?
Guess Im amazed you could respond with all those thoughts over whether God should be god or God etc etc.
And I bet you couldnt complete the supermarket challenge (IMO)
wanna know why?
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