Christians got this warm and fussy or excided feeling from the film.
I can't remember watching any film with so much suffering on a single person. I had this throwing up feeling all over and I am the fearless type.
I guess feeling ill makes me normal, how did it make you feel?
Glad it had no meaning for me! Depressing at its best! Especially after Mel's tirade!
Old Mad max, at it again,
How it make Christian feel happy is beyond my understanding Amnesty International
I felt some sadness. Some renewed realization of what a horrible death Christ suffered. When "Mary" was grieving for Him as He died, I felt huge sympathy for a mother losing her son, but huger empathy because I knew, just as she knew, that He was not just her son, but was the Son of God! So mostly, as you questioned, I felt relief and happiness as the movie ended, because it's the story of God's Love. Jesus said in the Bible that there's no greater love than for a man to lay down his life for his friends. I grew up having been taught that Jesus is the greatest friend to those who Love Him. So the Passion was a very moving confirmation of that.
I agree Brenda, and we know that it wasn't the end of the story either. The best part of the story was left out, but that is ok as it WAS the Passion, not the Resurrection story. It was very sad, if that was all there is, and that is what may be lost on some people, that Jesus in the process of going through all of that, was conquering the effects of sin on a humanity that is full of sin, and that can't save themselves even if they were willing to die for that sin.
Jesus suffered, so that people might choose life, and live! It wasn't the end at all, but rather barely the beginning.
Agreed, I felt very sad for the terrible way in which Jesus suffered. Watching the movie was touching. I am happy that Jesus love us so much that he laid down his life for all of our sins. There is no greater love!
A silly story really. Sacrificing one's son when he can be brought back instantly doesn't strike me as giving up anything at all. Now if Jesus remained dead and wasn't resurrected as some believe, that would be a sacrifice equal to humans losing a child.
I see no such thing in this case!
That you can call what Jesus went through, nothing, or as giving up nothing at all is sad and alarming. It was still awful, still an innocent man, not deserving of what he had to humanly go through. Minimizing it for personal reasons or any reason will never really minimize the actual true sacrifice that it was.
One time, once and for all. For people to accept or reject. (speaking of the story itself here, not just the movie that was also giving a portrayal of the gospel accounts.)
Oh, that's very different, Jesus was a man and not a god, then? Please make up your mind.
Read the accounts about Jesus, those that lived and ate and walked with him have written all about it. Please don't put words in my mouth either.
In general I ought to make it a rule for myself, to not engage with the many people on hub pages that are here to just mock others beliefs....everyday. If and when it happens, as it invariably does, I will just walk away from that conversation (not the whole forum) for it can turn into much time spent talking with people that are just out to mock and hurt others. That is something I am not into, personally.
So, to all on this and other boards, if I go "quiet" it is because time is precious and life is flying by. I don't want to engage in futility. If there are genuine questions or discussions, I am so happy to engage in those.
oceansnusunsets, Exactly, those who mock and try to hurt others are pretty miserable anyway. Keep in mind that some engage in these forums to try to knock others from accepting Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior. Lord forgive them, for they know not what they do.
How did he give up more than the untold numbers of other innocents murdered in God's name? They weren't brought back to life in a few days by their dad. What was the big sacrifice? What was given up? So now we don't have to kill chickens any more? Fill me in!
Once some one while preaching about God told, " God is like your father". Then one child got up and shouted- " if God is like my father, I will never believe in him, because my father is a drunkard".
I think u have never experienced the love of God, nor experienced his presence in your life, probably u might not have got the right opportunity for that. Do you really think Catholic Church could fool people for more than 2000 years? There are only few countries in this world that is as old as the church. There is no leader in this world who has inspired people as many as Jesus Christ. There is no company/no institution as old as the church. There are a billion catholics and other churches, Do u really think all these billion people who are inspired by Jesus, believe in him are just crazy?? There is definitely something that drives them. There were several scandals inside the church administration, did it kill the faith of billion people, no it did not. There is definitely something that brings people back to God.
So what is is that drives the faith of a billion people of this world, over 2000 years? I don't want to explain it here, but if u have guts and courage go and find out. Then u can find out the answers for all the questions that u asked (if u are really interested to know)
I have attempted to learn this most of my life. Born and reared in the Bible Belt and witness to every sort of fundie cult in the south. From snake handlers to tongue speakers I've examined the various cults and their followers as best I could.
A hardship at the very least as most are very similar to those posting pro-Jesus in these threads. They cannot understand anyone who dares to contradict their indoctrination into a particular cult. But they have no problem gleefully dooming you to eternal suffering if you disagree with their deity.
I laughed till I cried, and then laughed some more. Obviously, this was the Crucifixion/Resurrection story meets MadMax/Lethal Weapon, and just as mythical. I kept waiting for Danny Glover to show up as Jesus' crusty, old sidekick.
Maybe not, but putting it into perspective certainly is...
That is your perspective, and I'm big enough to respect that.
Aww, were you upset that your mythical invisible friend got put through the Hollywood meat grinder?
Hey, you're sounding like a cross between the two other prominent nay sayers. Which, oddly, I kind of like. Its a different side. Very impressive maneuver. You still find ways to amaze me. No small feat. So when do you plan on answering the question I keep asking you?
Actually, it is! I find Beezle's humor quite refreshing here. But then, I'm partial to realistic humor from intelligent sources.
that made no sense, in the context it appears to have been said. Except to make someone feel better about themselves. Which is not a bad thing. You're a good person Randy.
Believer or non believer, it's truly sad and a little concerning when one watches a movie like that and has these feelings.
Only if you took it seriously. Do you believe all movies are real "tragic events"?
I wouldn't laught at any movie about any man being beaten and crucified. There are lots of tragic "just movies" that aren't funny.
Yes, I understand you're distraught at having to watch your savior being beaten to death and crucified. No worries, though, no gods or men were harmed in the making of that movie.
Of course, your Jesus never felt anything either, he was a god, right?
I'm sorry you find humor in people being beaten and crucified.
Aww, don't worry, you'll get over it. Just remember that your Jesus wasn't a man and couldn't have felt anything. You need not feel distressed any more.
Of course, you never laughed at the Coyote or Daffy Duck. Funny how the moving from animation to real life seems to make a huge difference with mythical beings.
Not a very good comparison at all. Even if you believe it was a made up story about any person, very sad.
Yes, I understand that your Jesus was very real to you and that watching your Jesus getting pummeled was very disturbing for you.
Sorry, you are unable to distinguish the difference from cartoon characters and your mythical invisible friend.
Obviously, you must be very disturbed with the Coyote and you must really hate the Road Runner.
Again. you're comparing cartoons to a movie about a man. Even if you believe the man was a fictional character. If you think any movie, about any fictional character man/woman/child/ animal/ even cartoon (if it showed that character being beaten bloody and crucified) is funny, then that is very sad.
Very well, then. I will immediately forward your concerns to Warner Brothers and have them cease and desist showing the cruel and unusual tragedies befalling the Coyote as humorous. Will that make you feel better?
The Coyote doesn't get beaten bloody (or get any blood for that matter), crucified, or killed. Sorry, poor comparison, just not the same.
I suppose you laughed at Shutter Island also?
Really? I had no idea. Neither did the actors in that movie, or did you actually think they were being beaten bloody.
Please stop, this is just too hilarious to continue and my sides are splitting.
All movies have actors. There are plenty of sad movies. Your classification of humor and sadness in a movie is just different from mine.
Actually, there are movies that are classified as comedy and they have massive amounts of violence. Where ya been hiding?
There are also many movies with massive violence which aren't classified as comedy. Passion of the Christ is just one of many (IMDB actually classifies it as Drama/History). I don't think the classification has any real meaning to you, since you find these types of movies funny regardless. Sad, really.
I would agree, it shouldn't be classified as history.
I would suspect it should be classified as "Mythology/Snuff"
"In the South Park Episode The Passion of the Jew, Stan Marsh tries to get his money back from Mel Gibson after viewing The Passion of the Christ claiming that the film was a "snuff film."
Nope, IMDB just classifies it as history. I do realize you think Wikipedia is a reputable source for information, and maybe that is why much of the information you post is flawed.
Just because the IMDB classifies it as history, doesn't meant that the Crucifixion was an event that occurred or that Jesus existed.
At least, I don't get my information about history from the IMDB or movies. LOL!
I didn't state it did. I only equated IMDB to a reputable source for information about movies. It was you who made the other assumptions. I received history of the crucifixion from the Bible. IMDB just agrees with it.
If any movie with actors portraying people (fictional or real) being beaten bloody and crucified is funny to you, then I feel sad for you also.
Didn't say it was funny, just that I can tell the difference between factual events and those produced for entertainment purposes. I find it much sadder for a human to die horribly than for a deity who never dies at all.
Is it such that you are of the inclination that if you kept repeating this over and over, it would eventually come true?
Keep repeating what? What will come true? Movies with people being beaten, and murdered already exist, it's just sad that you find them funny.
I would find it rather sad if someone didn't find the Coyote funny, too.
So, if producers and directors are making movies of people being beaten and murdered, and making the scenes so graphically real that one does indeed feel nauseous for all the gore, why do people flock to theaters to see them? Why do you?
I see them to experience the the film, and for entertainment.
You mean, the experience of sitting in a theater watching a big screen? Or, something else?
So, blood, gore and violence in movies is entertainment for you?
Yes, in addition to experiencing the cinematography, and yes.
Interesting, what is it that you find entertaining about gory films? What draws you towards them?
For example, the film, "Psycho" was made in black and white specifically because Hitchcock was afraid the slasher parts would never make it past the Motion Picture Association to screen because of the red color of blood.
I generally don't watch "gory films" on purpose, so nothing draws me towards them. For example, I've never seen the movie Psycho. However, the gory films I have seen, I didn't find funny.
I have not seen many gory films myself, but know that there are people who go to them and laugh their heads off. Read for yourself:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2535221 … laugh.html
I'm sure there are. No need to read the article, I'm reading the statements and opinions of one now. Quite sad.
No need to read the article? Ah, you are indeed saved!
I am indeed saved. I also believed what he stated at face value, so there was no need for me to read the article.
Yes exactly, you take a face value that which you want to believe and no amount of information otherwise is required.
On the other hand, you also never take a face value something I have stated that you don't want to believe, and no amount of information otherwise is required.
I believed it at face value because of all your statements in this thread. Here is the first one:
"I laughed till I cried, and then laughed some more."
Are you saying you lied about that, I shouldn't believe you, and that you have completely degraded what little credibility you have left?
Sorry, I forgot you don't read things provided to you. My bad.
Hey Randy. I notice at least one of the prominent nay sayers is out today. I haven't seen you post this much in awhile. It makes me wonder. Are you guys like pro wrestlers? Do you tag team the religious forums? I'm curious.
No tag team needed. Ignorance draws its own detractors.
I think you may have a problem there. You shouldn't be so thin skinned. I'm pretty sure the Christian posters don't see themselves as detractors. I could be wrong.
Wrong? You? I'm sure your god would not allow you to be wrong while conversing with a heathen on such matters! Gods are like that!
Not mine. He doesn't back me up when I'm kidding around, that I'm aware of. Anyway, who's not a heathen?
But he does back you up when you are serious? I was under the impression most believers do not consider themselves heathens.
We're all heathens, in one way or another. I'm not saying He doesn't back me up. I wouldn't really know. I assume He's there if, and when, I've needed him. I'm sure there's probably a whole lot of other people that need His help more than I do. I'm tough enough to take care of myself, for the most part. Which probably makes you think, she's even crazier than she looks. But I have other reasons to believe.
Sure, there are starving children and suffering people all over the world who could use the assistance of a powerful being who cared enough to help them. Know of any? Me neither! Even Moe refuses to give them a sandwich. He says your god has a plan and refuses to get involved. Selfish gods are the same all over I suppose!
Well, see I see it differently from you. I think we are supposed to help each other. I see the starving masses as an indictment against us. I don't think God interacts with this world on the level any of us would like. I get your point. I've actually argued it with a few of the atheist brethren. It's a round and round argument. There's no solution. Both sides have merit, we just refuse to concede that point.
As to the Stooge Gods, shame on them. What's the problem with sharing a sandwich? Moe could stand to miss a lunch or two, last time I saw him.
Moe's sandwich is not something our minds can comprehend. You must have faith in his master plan. We are not meant to understand! Sound familiar?
No, we are mortal. We cannot comprehend what we can't see, taste or feel. How do you understand something you can't quantify?
Master plan? The only thing I believe is that we're supposed to take care of each other. Which we aren't doing very well, by my observation. That is the only thing I understand from the text. That's the basic plan. Love God, Love your neighbor. The way I see it, if we simply did the second, there would be heaven on earth. Miraculous enough for me.
If the simple message of Jesus can't be understood, I wish Moe would step up to the plate and share the news. Somebody needs to get it through our thick heads before we trash this place, or kill each other and prove ourselves to be a failed experiment.
Don't be silly. What differentiates us (some of us) from the cattle in the fields is the ability to grasp abstract concepts. I understand just fine that 2+2=4 yet you cannot see, taste or feel numbers.
Greed will do us in.
Ok, numbers mystified Pythagoras. We've gotten smarter. We're not smart enough for God yet.
Exactly. Greed. It's the one thing we'll never get a handle on. How do you tell emerging nations that all the material gifts we have enjoyed were a fluke, that will probably never be available, in the quantity and variety we have enjoyed? How do you tell people with little to eat that the images we are sending to their television don't mean that we don't care that their meagre rations aren't enough for them? How do we explain to people living in huts that the gluttony for material things as shown on our commercials is not a reflection of our values?
First world nations are exporting greed. We are making emerging nations hungry for it too. The sad thing is, anyone with a brain can see that it isn't the material things in our life that make us happy. We will fight over and over again because the control of resources is what we care about. We have to realize this love is not only unhealthy, but it is killing us. Greed has to learn to take a back seat to need. And no, I'm not a communist.
Yes we have. Some of us are still confused and think an abstract concept is real.
Not arguing with you here either. Nor am I a communist, but if we do not change our value system I can see we will eventually destroy ourselves.
Yes Mark, but how do we do that? How can we change or value system if we don't change our hearts? I don't see anyone offering viable answers that we can all agree on.
Neither do I. Probably going to take either a disaster or violence. We are being manipulated by a Hydra-like organization that creates the system based on debt. There is no such thing as a free man in our society. Just the illusion. Who owns the resources we cannot get along without? Water, fuel - money.
Try not using money - see how far you get.
Don't have an answer I'm afraid, but I do know uneducated, religious sheeple is part of the problem. As is the artificial left/right political divide.
I am 100% on agreement with you. But not all religious people are uneducated. They are simply blind to the damage they do with some of their statements, and they are misguided in their belief that some higher power is going to magically fix it all. As long as they hold this belief they are part of the problem. As are you and I.
Exactly! Gods do not trifle with mortals. Why should they? That would be similar to us expecting the insects to worship and adore we humans. If Jesus ever existed he was either man or god. I would bet on the former.
No god worth his station would intentionally allow such ridiculous rules and leaders of many religious cults. Why would a god choose to remain invisible and expect adoration? Shy?
I don't think I answered this. Please tell me where, in the Bible,that God says he expects adoration. I missed this one. I know he told the Israelites if they followed his laws, they would be his people. In the New Testament we are told to Love God and Love our neighbor. Did I miss a memo? I remember the Bible saying he was worthy of it, not that it was demanded.
So as long as we believe he exists it doesn't matter if we feel he is threatening us with eternity in hell if we do not honor his wishes? Worship me or suffer for eternity seems like extortion to me. Luckily, Moe can control his temper a little better than your god.
I see your point Randy. And if I believed that to be true, I'd probably be on your side lobbing insults. Because of course it isn't fair. But it isn't true, no matter how often people say it. I'm sorry you have been insulted by them. I find the statements unkind too.
You may look at what I say as an insult, but when you or others say things which I think are absolutely ridiculous, you think it is fine. I am serious about Moe. I consider your god just as real as you think Moe is.
Can you really say you wouldn't feel insulted if I insisted Moe was your salvation and you are doomed unless you succumbed to Stoogism? Your intelligence would be insulted, if nothing else.
In fact, Moe's existence is much more easily proven than your guy's. And he always tried to cause laughter among his followers, even if he was a bit corny at times. He never caused mass human annihilation to the entire population of the earth, including babies-both born and unborn- children and adults and the entire animal population. Though i don't know what sin they were guilty of.
And of course, Moe never has boasted about impregnating 13 year old virgins either. But some gods have no morals. One has to choose gods carefully. Better not to take your parents word for which one is best. Choose a friendly one or you end up being thought "nutty"!
Ok, well I'm glad you're not insulted. I get irritated when people tell me that I've gotten the message wrong, and that's where I'm headed, but I don't take the threats seriously. But, neither do I take it seriously when someone calls me nutty. I said it before, and I'll say it again. From your posts, I think you're a good person. People should do what they think is right. If you consider the idea of God, as it has been presented to you, evil; then forge ahead. You might just make people stop and think what they're saying. But I'm telling you, that is not the point of the message of the Old Testament. As always, just an opinion.
I like to think most of us try to be good people, JC! And religion in itself bothers me not a whit. As long as any cultist keeps their beliefs to themselves there is never a problem. The problem arises when a cultist looks down on, or considers themselves spiritually higher than, anyone who believes differently.
If they have the right to judge others, they must allow others to judge them. As you can tell by these threads, they only like it when they judge others. Doh!
Quotatio oneness and Separateness: from Infant to Individual
children in society, historical perspectives (14)
Every human society endeavors to preserve itself by inventing the adolescence it requires. . . . Adults are prone to create myths about the meaning of adolescence. Whatever their political or personal inclinations, whether they glorify nature or revere society, whether they are identified with youth or they are detractors of youth, most adults find it imperative to defuse the awesome vitalities of these monsters, saints, and heroes.
A talking snake explaining how world of Moe can be more beautiful than Christian world to a just curious Christian. Is either you are a better prankster then me or your showing how ancient spiritually is too out date and more harmful than the Moe we know.
I once had a three ways business partnership in a business, we all knew nothing about it, the first year was just like the 3 stooges, after that, we made millions.
It's better to laugh at Moe than to cry forever over un reported Amnesty case of Jesus.
Life is funny, CP! I have laughed my way through it and hope to continue to do so for a while yet.
Can you imagine how indignant some of the fundies feel when I compare their terrifyingly cruel god to my humorous deity Moe. That I could believe such a kind and non-vengeful entity could respect and wish his followers well can't hold a candle to their threatening creator who may torture them forever. Choices, choices!
Peace and laughter to you my friend!
eddigity, Same here, what a bad sense of humor.
Did you feel the same watching the old westerns when so many of the indians were killed by the good guys in the white hats so their land could be stolen? Probably not, it was a movie.
I'm not a fan of Westerns, but I didn't laugh at 3:10 to Yuma,did you?
I'm sure there are plenty of movies in which you didn't waste time worrying about a horrific death in a scene. You obviously feel you should take TPOTC seriously because you have to. I understand you have no control over this.
But that is your choice and one I do not envy you for. I'm sure you would feel the same about me having such emotion about the stooges. Or am I mistaken in that assumption?
No, you're completely right, it is my choice. Point is, just because I don't watch movies with Indians (or anyone for that matter) being slaughtered, doesn't mean I would laugh at one if I did. Additionally, you don't make a very good point, because the premise of my statement was based off a disbelief from the poster in the original comment. I think that it is a safe assumption that we both believe Indians were slaughtered.
More put downs. I would love to be surprised one day. Maybe it can happen.
You are absolutely right, ediggity.
It may be true or not. Recall how the "evil" expressed in the movie, also mocked everything good, and grinned and laughed at it? Remember how chilling that part and parts were? I do.....
Yes, it's amazing how movie special effects and computer graphics can make everything so real, almost as if you're right there.
No one is suggesting (other than you) that the movie itself makes any of the historical gospel accounts true or not. The movie was taking literary license of course, but in general it is the account, even if written with some flair.
When I am speaking of the gospel accounts, and movie, perhaps I should be more clear. No one is confusing that a movie can make a thing real or not. So I am not sure why you are suggesting that over and over.
I know of no christians that got a warm or fuzzy feel, or an excited feel from that film. I haven't even heard of anyone like that. I felt horrified at the expression of an idea of what may have happened to Jesus.
It does help one to realize the severe cost to sin and what it takes to conquer evil, sin, and death. In that sense, it makes one thankful, that a person that could lay down his own life that could actually "get it done" (conquering said things...) so that I don't have to die eternally for my own sins.
To say that Christians get a warm and fuzzy feeling or an excited feeling just isn't true though. So this may be one of those forums that is just baiting people to go after them.
If it made you feel like throwing up or getting sick, welcome to the world we live in, its crazy evil and people seem to be either supportive of it or not. It is also because it is just that awful. Mel Gibson is known to get a little graphic though too.
Gods can't die, can they? What "man" laid down his life? No man did.
It would only make someone feel like that if they took it seriously.
FYI - it was a movie.
I suppose you laugh at all movies with tragic events.....sad, really.
Aww, and I'm sure your being "connected" was pretending your mythical god actually died. "Tragic event"
Hey Beelzedad. You should stop making fun of people over this. It doesn't reflect well.
I was making fun of a myth, not a person. Pay attention.
I did not miss your point, but this is a highly emotional topic. It isn't the same as baiting someone for other ideas that stem from their belief. It is a little like hitting below the belt.
Yes, I know, believers are talking about a movie in which their loving god was beaten and tortured to death, that is, if gods can be beaten and tortured to death, which makes no sense at all.
It's a movie, an actor played the part of Jesus, the blood was fake, as were the beatings.
Do you also get as highly emotional when the Coyote gets splattered all over the place after chasing the Road Runner, or do you laugh?
Ok, I see you need a little work on compassion. Yes it was a movie. I cry at movies all the time, even though I know it is fake. Man, you'd be a sorry choice to go to the movies with. That's part of the entertainment value.
As to this movie, it is seen as based on true events. It is like laughing during the movie Hotel Rwanda, or The Killing Fields. It may not be fact to you, but it is a very sad movie to people who believe.
I never like to come off sinister or insensitive or uncompassionate, more of my concern is over done suffering that only adds to the problem. I can't stop people from over watching the all the killing and violent on film or reading all the horror stories in the Bible in which carries many wrong translations.
All I can do is try to make people aware of this kind of un healthy brainwashing, as a major contributor to the problem. It’s this kind of harmful suggestion that set the stage for Christian civilization and their uncivil acts as the leading cause our human history of war, murder and tooled by the over controlling greedy.
Religious killing will never stop killing or more violence will never stop violence, it only increases it, as the warriors pray a lot and see their enemies as sub human,
It's far from being Christ like and I can't imagine a spiritual leader like Jesus would ever talk about weapons of mass destruction in my mystic opinion
oh castle. I thought your idea when you posted this thread was fine. It was a valid question. I was just pointing out to Beelzedad that sometimes making fun of certain topics, past a certain point, was insensitive. He chases theists unmercifully at times. You always state your point, but nicely. And you throw in a little humor to keep it light. I didn't mean offense.
In the gospels in the bible, there are eyewitness accounts of the life of Jesus. They also recount his history, showing how he came to be on the earth in the first place. If you read those, you will understand more how Jesus is both man, and the very Son of God, that did things only a God could do. You don't have to agree or believe it, but it would clear up your misunderstandings of what seem to be fair questions or concerns about the situation.
I know it was a movie, and you have already said that. I am speaking about not just the movie, but what it was about, and about things I have researched over my life.
Yes, there are eyewitness accounts of Bigfoot, Nessie and visiting aliens, too. So what?
Funny how believers swallow that nonsense, hook line and sinker, yet never think about it to understand that if the believers description of their gods as being all-powerful and all-knowing has any bearing on their belief system, they would understand that Jesus was not a man, but was a god in a man's suit and never really died at all, unless you will claim that gods can die.
You are a mocker, and not serious. There is no point in speaking in these forums if that is all you are going to do. I have seen it allowed here by many though. I personally think that it hurts hubpages and the forums, that people make such a mockery and game of putting others down and their beliefs.
Its just another reason to believe however, which is rather ironic. There are so many good reasons to believe in God, but that atheists or non religious types act in these ways ongoing, is testament all its own. By doing this, you are proving it more true. Its as if what is written is 100% true, in ways that I can't force or not. It just is.....observably true.
It looks like we agree on something, I think it hurts Hubpages when religionists preach their gospel here, threaten others with eternal damnation, make claims that Jesus sent their kids to Disneyland, spit venom at anyone who doesn't share those beliefs... etc.
And yet, there are many, many more reasons not to believe in your god.
Do you not find any good reasons to believe in Allah, or Thor, or Zeus, or...
Your accusations, if true could easily be dealt with. I only see accusations of those kinds of things, not real life experiences. What I said though, is observably true, daily, even by hubpages elite, which is disturbing too.
To answer you, and assume the best that you are being half serious there with the question at the end, my answer is no, I don't find any good reasons to believe in Allah, Thor or Zeus.
Thanks, but I already knew that. The question was rhetorical.
So it was as I suspected, sad. I was giving it a shot, and assuming the best.
It's no big deal. I just hoped it showed you that your god is not the only god people worship and obey, and that they have their reasons for believing in them. I'm sure by now, you probably believe Thor and Zeus are myths, which they are. But, you have to realize your god is no different.
How long have you been indoctrinated into your cult? Fundie I guess?
More put downs... Hubpages could be such a great place, but this kind of behavior is not only allowed, but encouraged by what I see. It brings down the professionalism of the whole place. I won't be engaging with you since you are insisting on being this way. Too many more constructive things to be doing.
An honest question frightens you, of course. Either that or you don't care to give an honest answer. I do not wish to engage in conversation with you either if such simple questions scare you off so easily. But then, you may have no choice to answer realistically. Many believers are in the same boat, as shown frequently on these threads.
Woop-woop-woop my brother!
oceansnusunsets, Your replies are absolutely true. You have good observation.
It's sad you confuse mocking with reality and common sense. But these aren't required for a blind faith sort of belief system. In fact, they should be discarded by the followers of all religious faiths as being detrimental to the particular cult.
Once again, just my view on all cults.
There are many cults in the world, but you just saying what is and isn't a cult, isn't a good determining factor on the truth of those accusations.
Studying up on cults can help. Just having a super broad view on what they could be, so that you can put people down with such ways of thinking and being, isn't a very moral thing to do, even if you aren't religious. That would just be uncool across the board. Some worldviews support those ways of being, but I would find that an instantly good reason to reject them. They "fail" right off the bat.
But aren't you telling me I am wrong because I do not believe as you do? Do you look down on those you consider ungodly? What makes your belief in your chosen deity any better than any other of the multitude of believers in other gods, silly or not?
What makes your opinion of gods any better than mine?
The Exorcist (devil film) made me throw up my dinner, Passion of Christ made feel like throwing up, so fearless people do have feelings too. At the world trade exhibition, USA was represented by Hollywood, so people do get influence to a degree by films. The warm and fuzzy Christian feeling comes some relief of false fear, you stand a better chance to avoid being tortured for eternity. Yet in reality it was created from low factual and suffering imagination.
I wonder if the of the masochism and sadistic of the world would enjoy if a movie was made about the Bald headed Priest. A story, in the bible, about children mocking a bald headed priest, who shredded them to death by bears. Being a part time film maker, I would watch it, just to see how they would turn it into a G rated film for a complete family adventure to experience.
I'm a Christian and I certainly didn't feel warm or fuzzy while watching it. In fact, I doubt many Christians at all felt that way. I felt sad, very very sad. It was heartbreaking to watch what Jesus may have had to experience and the worst part is, the movie probably didn't even come close to showing the suffering he experienced.
To Start Again
How do you know how much pain Jesus suffered from some 2000 years ago? For all the people who lived on earth (100 billion or so) suffered in degrees death Spiritual leaders have been known to block out pain.
Some Muslim and Hindu believe Jesus recover from the cross and lived out his life in India. I would too, if the Romans, who created Satan, were after me.
I don't know. I've never seen the movie, as I heard it was a utter piece of crap by many reliable sources. Although one of these days, I know I will see it because it is the highest grossing "R-rated" film of all time, so I am curious as to see why that is. However, I think the best movie version of Jesus was "The Last Temptation of Christ", as it actually showed a more human side to the biblical jesus. Not only that, it was one of those rare controversial films that challenged people's perception religion and one it's more prominent figures. I highly recommend that movie though.
It made me feel humble, loved, sad, happy and many different emotions I cannot remember. Humble because Jesus did something I could not do. Loved because Jesus took my place. Sad because He had to go through with it for me. Happy that he didn't back away from His calling.
I was also a little angry at times when the movie went a direction away from what scripture states happened.
read the dead sea scrolls and you might understand things in the scriptures may be the mass culture edition.
I did not see the film but I know that Jesus was a truthulf person and he obeyed commandments of the Creator-God with passion; he was not a god or son of god himself though.
I cried. And then I cried some more. And then I had to go to the concession stand to get napkins. Then I cried some more.
I was a powerful movie. Even if Mel Gibson did it.
I think the horror of the whole thing just shocked me. We've all read the story, but the brutality of that movie drove home the point of what lengths He was willing to go to, to send the message. Our collective history scares me. Has the sacrifice helped us to rise above that mentality, or is it still in us; kept at bay by our desire to be better? I vacillate quite strongly with my answer to that in the world we live in.
I felt similar to how you describe above. It was too much really and so sad. People need to remember that the story doesn't end there. That was my biggest complaint. Such a horrible thing, ends with the greatest story ever told, that offers hope to all mankind, this is a great thing! The cost was a lot though, and that is what we were reminded of. I couldn't watch a lot of it.
I agree that history is scary, and I would add that current events are equally scary as they are playing out. The extreme deception and hatred we see in the world is more horrifying to me than the movie. That is scary huh?
Yes, I find the current world frightening whether viewed from a religious perspective or not. I did force myself to not turn away from any part of the movie. I usually look down, or away, if I'm watching something that I consider to include graphic violence not necessary to the story (which is pretty much always), but I felt compelled to deny myself that while watching this. I figured if I believe in the resurrection I should claim my part in the reason for it. Which is probably one of the reasons I found it so hard to bear. Which is actually odd for me. I'm pretty unemotional about most things.
I was wondering about the passion of the two thieves!! They died only after jesus, after some more suffering....
It's like, I’m always pulling for pleasure and Christians are pushing for pain.
Christian take passion in a man nailed to a cross and Jesus talks more about hell than about heaven in the bible, towards an exclusive fight club.
I'm always pushing for love and I do not understand the huge discrimination among Christians toward most of the world's population and their idea’s of love and beyond.
It's the nature of the beast, Castlepaloma! The masses cannot be controlled by religious leaders unless the followers are threatened with suffering and death if they do not toe the line!
It works well for those who are indoctrinated into the religion. They dare not think about anything contrary to the teachings of those who "enlightened" them. Willful ignorance is the greatest of all sins, IMHO!
The two thieves show how merciful and gracious God is. Jesus is no respector of persons, and even asking forgiveness, sincerely at the end of that theives life meant he was able to have eternal life.
Its a wonderful story of forgiveness and mercy, where Jesus is realizing the gravity of the situation, to the point that he prays for those killing him and mocking him. That is real love, and something you don't see everyday.
Neither is the dead coming back to life something you see everyday.
FYI - it was a movie about a myth.
I know that you are sharing your personal beliefs there with us all, and I can respect that. Many others are convinced that it is not just a myth, not at all.
Dead coming back to life is not something you see everyday, agreed. That is part of the point, and why so many today are still being transformed in very real ways by the life of Jesus and his message. It is just as it would be if God were real and revealing himself to mankind. It literally has transformed all of history and the globe ever since.
As long as you do not disparage my Stoogism beliefs and take Moe, Larry and Curly seriously as gods, I will give your beliefs the same respect. Deal?
If only you were being serious, then I would absolutely respect that. We all know you don't believe in stoogism beliefs, but are really putting down others with your comment there.
I could say the same for your beliefs and actually feel the same way about your beliefs as you do my Stoogism. Can you not see that? Imagine me trying to convince you Moe knows best and the way you would look at my preferred delusion. This is how I feel about yours. I am serious!
No, there is a difference and you know it. See, I KNOW you don't actually believe in your stoogism, and you are out to put people down, and laugh about it like you always do. You SEEM to not care that very real people find very real reasons to believe what they, even if you disagree. I know that is not the case with your example, Curly, Larry and Moe. That I even entertained this with an answer is probably a mistake, because I am also assuming you want to be a fair and reasonable person. Lets hope I was right, despite what I am seeing and often see here.
So no, Its not the same, and I can't see that you are trying to say that I actually don't believe in Jesus at all, like how you don't believe in Curly larry and moe. I think you knew the answer before you asked though.
Of course I don't believe in Stoogism. But imagine how I look at you who I feel believes in something equally silly. I am glad you don't think I am serious about the Stooges. But I am sorry you do believe in your own particular "Stoogism."
Not trying to be cruel, but this is how your beliefs appear to those not brainwashed into the cult. It is difficult to make a believer understand they are looked at in the same manner. Can you at least admit to this being true?
So you admit you were wrong about comparing stoogism to Christianity at least, thank you. You, labeling something as equally silly doesn't in any way reflect on the truths of matters here. What it does reflect on in that you are willing to put people down that simply think and believe differently than you do. That is what I am trying to discourage, or help to minimize. I see people in these boards "gone after" every day here. Its wrong, period.
The ongoing mocking tone, not only isn't good manners, and cruel, its indicative of SOME worldview, that concerns me at its core. Its not just you, but I see people writing books like this, and promoting it elsewhere as well. Its not ok though, and people may adopt it or copy cat it. That isn't good not only for hubpages, but society in general. You, looking at me in the same manner, isn't a good comparison, for reasons I have stated before and again.
I can admit that you are willing to look at how I seriously believe in God and Jesus, in the same way I would look at you as if you believed in The Three stooges as deities. The thing is though, that reflects badly on you, not on me though. Can you not see that? (Trying to be as fair as I can here.)
I understand you think your god is better than Moe! I also understand you ignored my question of how you came to find out this was so and from what source you were indoctrinated.
Or are you claiming this has no bearing on why you believe the (in my opinion) silly things you do. Are we both not entitled to consider why we have the views we do?
How you pull people to think Moe is a belief is really funny and compared to their beliefs.
I like nutty people, in a good way
It's the same thing, actually. But people tend to like their own imaginary deities better than those of others. Stoogism makes just as much sense as any other cult. Sad but true!
I'll take being called "nutty" as a complement coming from you, CP!
Many artist need to be nutty enough to spread the message, everyone's an artist in degrees.
Even if you don't believe it, you watched the movie of a man beaten bloody and crucified, and you though that was funny? That really says a lot about your character.
Actually, it shows more about the fact that I knew it was movie and not a real "tragic event" - keep pretending it was, if it makes you feel better.
Seen it once, and I will never watch it again - A bloody film and not nice. Personally, its nothing to do with religion, but an excuse for a blood fest..
What changed after the rumored death of JC? Did people stop sinning as much? I doubt it! There is nothing to show such a minor sacrifice helped anything in the world to be better. But I am open to any stats showing my opinion to be wrong, as always.
Start with the 180 of people like Paul the Apostle. Take that and multiply it down the ages, ever since. It hasn't stopped changing lives ever since, and even haters and atheists can't stay away from talking about Jesus. Its really amazing if you think about it.
Religions always start with people, not gods. The particular linage of the cult followers has no bearing on the truth of the cult. All been done long before your cult was imagined and created. Nothing new!
I agree! Religion starts with people. One of the most important teaching of Jesus (sorry he is my hero, even though u don't like him) is "Love others as u love yourself".
What is the name of that church pastor who rides in Bentley? There was another guy who said he is Jesus, second coming and duped several people. However, there are good works also going on.
Have you ever thought about what motivates Mother Teresa sisters to work with slum dwellers, drug addicts, homeless and outcasts. They could have lived a wonderful life, instead they took a different life style. There is definitely something that motivates and drives all these sisters.
In Tomas Cahill's Hinges of History series, he wrote a book called "Desire of the Everlasting Hills" about the impact of Jesus on the world. His argument is that Jesus profoundly changed the world for the better.
Interestingly, Cahill does not accept the doctine that Jesus' death atones for our sins. His argument that Jesus has improved the world is based on people's reactions to Jesus teachings, and positive effect of Christian culture.
Very good point you make. I bet we would be a different and even more violent world without the influence of His message.
Cahill's book was great - as a Christian I sometimes feel frustrated about all the mistakes of Christians down through the ages, so it was nice to read a different perspective. I wish Cahill had chosen a better title though. His book about the Greeks was titled "Sailing the Wine Dark Sea." That's a great title, makes you want to read it.
Ah, i should write a hub about the Hinges of History series! I'll add that to my list of hubs i need to write.
Nice. I'll have to figure out where the follow button is on this droid so I'll know when you've published it. I'd be interested to read it.
I'd be interested in reading that hub. I first read Cahill's "How the Irish Saved Civilization" (I was disappointed to find it wasn't about whiskey but finished it anyway)and became hooked on the series.
But what about the effect it had on other cultures? Those involved in the Crusades might disagree with you. Especially those murdered because the "Christians" thought they were Muslim because of their similar attire.
Or the estimated 80% of the Native American population decimated by disease, murder and enslavement by the European immigrants to the New World.
And lets not forget the untold multitudes of Africans-usually around one 1/3 never survived the Atlantic crossing-who were enslaved by God's chosen using the biblical scriptures as justification.
Something to be proud of, no doubt! Moe is glad his followers never had a hand in any of these godless actions.
I did not like the Movie also, it was like the movie Titanic, I knew what the horrible ending, would be.
What is the point in regretting the past, when the only thing needed is to redesign your life not to regret the future
How'd you know the ending? I don't remember it being given away in any of the trailers.
I take part in film making, also when you travel the world you find out there is more important to Easter than to Christmas in most Christian countries.
Over all there more importance to Jesus death and to other people's thought of afterlife that draws the main stream Christian in.
First, Im surprised at the number of answers. Second, I saw the movie in Sydney after watching some young asians chase each other down George St with knives.
It was odd to watch the knife chase as you suddenly realize that their reality is on a different plane than yours.
Anyway, the movie may have baseemed different to me after that. Parts of it I found oddly humourous, almost as if Gibson was poking fun or making a joke of it all. When the woman wiped up the blood and held the cloth to her chest, I thought " oh for the love of christ." I wasnt big on the violence, but I tell myself, its a movie and concerntrate on trying to understand how they create that effect.
The woman scorned with the baby, and the strength of the pure woman who trys to carry him through the darkness of his cross carrying. Again, the male version of life. It is his cross to bear, women are the support characters. Yet what leads men to say a woman scorned? Sometimes the woman scorned is the stronger woman who lives through the negativity of what the man percieves as his mistake, or rationalizes as such.
I wouldn't say most had a warm and fuzzy feeling. When I saw the movie, when the lights went up at the end the crowd had a stunned sort of quiet I've never seen in a movie theatre. Another thing i noticed, was no one was eating popcorn or snacks. Ususally people can munch through all sorts of violence, so the lack of popcorn and soda leads me to believe this movie was more stomach turning than others.
I did write in my Judgement Seat hub that this movie reconciled me to the symbol of the cross - before I had disliked even the short crucifiction scenes at the end of movies about Jesus' life. I did have an experience of peace watching the movie, but my reaction surprised me, and it wasn't the only emotion I felt either. If people talk warm fuzzies, I think that is a processed reaction a while after seeing the movie, intigrating it and their reactions with their faith. The crowd in that movie theatre sure didn't feel warm and fuzzy to me.
About Jesus being a god, so he didn't really suffer - the standard Christian doctrine is that Jesus was fully God and at the same time fully human. Christian beleive Jesus experienced this world just as we do, pain and all. One of the epistles points out how sympathetic he is towards us, having lived a human life also.
Thinking that a "god" can't suffer - many religions have a suffering god. It is not original to Christianity. It has a deep appeal to many, touches something in the human psche, or this motif would not be found around the world.
I think part of the emotional reaction to the film is that Christians respond to Jesus as someone they are emotionally close to. Everybody knows the blood & so forth was fake, these are all actors, ect, but for a Christian, the film evokes a very personal response.
This long enough, I better quit.
Interesting. Cyril of Alexandria's second letter to Nestorius in 429 AD affirmed that god cannot suffer in his divine nature, but rather he took a body in able to experience the suffering of man and show this suffering to all.
In a similar way we say that he [Christ] suffered and rose again, not that the Word of God suffered blows or piercing with nails or any other wounds in his own nature (for the divine, being without a body, is incapable of suffering); but because the body which became his own suffered these things, he is said to have suffered them for us. For he was without suffering (apathes), while his body suffered. Something similar is true of his dying. For by nature the Word of God is of itself immortal and incorruptible and life and life-giving, but since on the other hand, his own body, by God's grace, as the apostle says (Heb. 2:9) tasted death for all, the Word is said to have suffered death for us, not as if he himself had experienced death as far as his own nature was concerned (it would be sheer lunacy to say or to think that), but because as I have just said, his flesh tasted death. So too, when his flesh was raised to life, we refer to this again as his resurrection, not as though he had fallen into corruption--God forbid--but because his body had been raised again.
Thanks for that quote. Cyril is quite a thinker.
I saw the shorts, read the hype and gave it a miss as an ego trip for the little loon who made it.
When I watched Passion of the Christ I couldn't help but cry. Not because Jesus is my savior, and not because He was so obviously not guilty. No, I cried because 2011 years later, its apparent that people have not learned the lessons of the Bible because so many people still behave the same now as they did then.
During Jesus period time, people only lived to their mid 20s, Jesus was an old man at age 33, pass his prime, what else has he to live for, today's people's average age is 80.
To compare people from biblical hardships to today’s people of much higher consciences and opportunities is no contest.
Who's talking hardships?
People still have the potential to do good or bad yet even with all the knowledge in today's world there are still too many who choose the bad over the good. That's what I'm talking about.
(why would I cry over length of lifespan? that doesn't even make sense!)
Iam very much happy on one thing that is things are automatically done as per GODs desire.If god is willing to give nobody will stop.If god is not willing nobody will give.
In the film people are torturing JESUS . But JESUS prayed for the people. Because he knows that nobody can stop his blood bleeding from his body.
Blood bleeding starts from garden prayer.No need to torture.Then why the CALVARY walk .
Because the body of JESUS should be above the earth[ written one in BIBLE]
It's good to see you again jay
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