Was Jesus Begotton(born), Created or Other?

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DoubleScorpionposted 12 years ago
Using the Bible. Which do you believe? That Jesus was Created? or was he Begotton (Born) or was he Other? This Thread is not for if you believe that there is or is not a Jesus, But rather based on what is written in the Bible, How did Jesus come to be? And please state the Book, Chapter and Verses that leads you to believe your chosen option. We all can read so we really don't need the words...And for those who don't have a bible for one reason or another here is a link for one that has various versions...

http://onlineparallelbible.com/
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  dutchman1951posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  if the story is to be believed by faith; He was born..?
  
  Nothing has ever been proven however, as nothing was ever writen until 80 to 150 years latter from word of mouth whitnesses. So..?
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I take it you are basing your thought from the "gospels". And yes...I am not trying to prove Jesus real or not.. just curious to see the various thoughts on the matter. Thanks for the reply.
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  dutchman1951posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not doubting you at all here, just that in the middle of an in-depth study, I have been disapointed more than suprised. Wish it was not so
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  oh, does begotten mean born? I thought it meant something like cherished.
  
  Maybe he was dropped off by a stork?
  
  Here, a definition of begotten means procreate biologically ie need parents.
  
  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/begotten
  
  So, how was Jesus conceived? Mary had sex with Joseph or God? Or was Mary a 'technical virgin' - didn't have intercourse, but fooled around with Joseph?
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yep Begotton means procreation. which is why I put the word "born" in parentheses.. because I planned on most believer types to say Jesus was Begotton...(which in my mind literally means God did the naughty with a 14-16 year old virgin girl who was betrothed to another man) Actually one of the Gospels (John if memory serves) has the Angel Gabriel telling Mary that the "Holy Spirit" would come up on her and she would bear a child and name him Emmanuel.
  
  Glad someone finally pointed that out.. Thanks BaileyBear
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  people in biblical times believed that the man put the 'seed' in the fertile soil of the woman (hence 'barren' if infertile').
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes.. correct again...Many people who read the bible fail to take into account the meaning of things from around that time frame of when it was actually written.
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  hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Marys own words. "that i know not a man" meaning she was a virgin as was the custom. We in the western parts of the world consider virginity as something to get rid of asap! BUT in the eastern part of the world virginity was heavily regarded as being super important. If women were not found to be virigins on their wedding night.. all heck broke out.
  
  So no she did not fool around with joseph... she kept the premarriage arrangements to the letter and after jesus, she and joseph fooled around and had some more children.
  
  Yes they married them off early because of the virginity aspect and usually to older men who had dowries and security.
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  have heard that women these days get murdered if not virgins in some cultures (but the men manage to sneak around)
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  hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It helps to have a cultural perspective.
  We only assume the men sneak around. There were and are prostitutes, probably from malaysia lol.. cudn't resist... Gods plan is really that two people meet, love each other and experience the pleasures of marriage between just the two of them and from first time onward. Think of the bonding if two people sexually innocent, marry and have sex with each other for the first time. It may be clumbsy and awkward but they love each other and they are experimenting together.
  Shes not thinking, ive had better or greggs was bigger and hes not thinking.. well whatever...
  Its never about quantity with God .. its always about quality
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  fadmaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is this question directed only to Christians.How about if I use an exerpt from the quran that mentions Jesus peace be upon him.Thank you
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Qu'ran is good as well...I actually meant the "bible" in the OP to apply to all Sacred Texts
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  fadmaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well thank you for clarifying that; here is a portion of Al Emran from the Quran:
  "(44) (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah). (45) He will speak unto mankind in his cradle and in his manhood, and he is of the righteous. (46)
  She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. (47) And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel, (48) And will make him a messenger unto the Children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird, by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are to be believers. (49) And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. (50) Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. (51) But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried: Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said: We will be Allah's helpers. We believe in Allah, and bear thou witness that we have surrendered (unto Him). (52) Our Lord! We believe in that which Thou hast revealed and we follow him whom Thou hast sent. Enrol us among those who witness (to the truth). (53) And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. (54) (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ. (55) As for those who disbelieve I shall chastise them with a heavy chastisement in the world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers. (56) "
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  fadmaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Allah is merely the arabic word for God
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I know. And I'll look up your previous post in my copy of the Qu'ran and mark it for future comparisions. Thank you for your input. Peace to you
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Other.
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just_curiousposted 12 years ago
Matthew 1: 18 Luke 1: 34

If the gospels are to be taken as gospel, God caused Mary to conceive a child as a virgin.
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  hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  of course mary was a virgin.. god would have to come down wrapped in flesh, to do the nasty with mary, to produce a flesh son. .... ummmm.
  
  Jewish tradition says that if a woman were deflowered prior to marriage that she is unwedable. If jesus had no father he would be a bastard son and fatherless kids were not able to become priests.
  
  because God is spirit then no penetration occured and hence marys virginity was intact.
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  just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do understand the meaning of the word virgin, and the intent of the writers.
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  hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  oh
  hehe
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just_curiousposted 12 years ago
So, out of curiosity, what other options are there? Scripturally speaking.
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  dutchman1951posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  none Just; no other options, it has to be byFaith alone, and natural birth to be human and reachable. Believable, well.... again-FAITH.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Read the first Chapter of John and then read the first chapter of Genesis. And you will find another option...
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  just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do know the meaning of the first chapter of John and Genesis. I thought you were questioning the physical aspect. I do believe that the spiritual is the more important one to ponder, though. Thanks, for something to think about today.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So here is something else you might find interesting to think on...If Jesus is the word of God and the Light of Man...Then when he said that the only way to God was through him...Might actually mean that the way to God was through the Word of God not actually through "Jesus" himself. Jesus taught on many occasions that the Kindom of Heaven was within each and everyone of us. And he compare the Kindom of Heaven to many things through parables that if read with an open and understanding mind...you might be able to compare those parables to the enjoyment of life itself.
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  just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We're already on the same page with that one.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Then you should enjoy this thread as it moves along.
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BunuBobuposted 12 years ago
Other.
It seems he was hatched when Mary laid a golden egg.
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  pisean282311posted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  BunuBobuposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well either that or he was beamed onto this planet.
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kessposted 12 years ago
Truth , the male who is Adam was single then he became divided into male and female.

This female is Eve and she is wisdom.

Now Mary, wisdom, who is Eve, recognise that she need not take a husband, because her Husband is already with Her as Truth.

Thus She the female, united herself with her husband Truth and bear a son.

This Son himself found Himself to be Truth just as His Father is.. Thus he became the first born because he was born of the Wisdom his mother the flesh and Truth His Father a Spirit.

And he also found that His wife was also himself, so there is no division within himself, therefore no need to take a wife.
because he is self sufficient and One in His own self.

Therefore the time is coming and Now is.. when those who find that they too are self sufficient because they are whole in their own selves... need not take a wife....or need not take a husband for she will be her own husband thus though she is female she would be as the male.

And only those which such an understanding will inherit etrnal Life... because they are from such.. and no religion can encapsulate think knowledge within itself...for it comes Via the Spirit of Christ alone and not any written words.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok..So you are saying that Jesus was born...and your passage from the Bible or other Scripture that backs up this belief?
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  kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  can't you read yourself....
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. I can read. The reason I posted this thread was to get other peoples thoughts and where they build those beliefs from based on the bible or other sacred text. I have my own opinions on the matter...I am curious of others opinions.
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  kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I wont be justifying myself from any writings whatsoever because it is not necessary for me neither for you...
  
  And it would be good for you if you will do the same..
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You do understand that the purpose of this thread is to gather different personal opinions or beliefs on how Jesus came about based on the Bible or Other Sacred text...This is not a theological debate or anything of the sort...I don't care if you actually believe Jesus is real or not...I am purely interested in if you believe Jesus was Born, Created or Other...and what part of Sacred or other text do you use to support that belief.
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  kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I beleive I have fulfilled your wishes for the thread then...
  
  Except your wishes for me to quote from writings....if I do then I risk in deceiving you.
  
  For you would continue to believe that the writings themselves as source...
  
  There is a Spirit which gives men all understanding and does not speak from written scripts.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That works for me...Your belief is based off of spritual guidance and not so much from written word.
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  hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  there are no bible scriptures that back that up.
  Eve was not so wise was she... and adam told a lie so there goes truth...
  Mary had a husband and they had other children so that blows that out of the water too.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mary Didn't have other Children until after Jesus. And that is in debate as well...Mary was around 14-16 when her aan Joseph was to be Married...Joseph was an older man(a widower)...with kids, it is thought. Mary and Him did not consumate thier marriage until after Jesus was born.
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  hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  bible says nothing about joseph being a widower with kids. For all intents and purposes joseph was unmarried and with no kids and yes consummation after marriage and after jesus was born.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I never said that the bible said that Joseph had other children, I said it was debated as to if he did. But the bible does say that Mary and Joseph did not consumate the marriage until after Jesus was born.
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Jeff Berndtposted 12 years ago
The midichlorians created Him. No, wait, I'm thinking of Anakin Skywalker...
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paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
Was Jesus Begotton (born), Created or Other?

Jesus was born of Mary; and Mary was sired by nobody.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hello Paar...And your Information is from the Qu'ran... Would you be so kind as to point out a few places so I can look it up in my Copy of the Qu'ran please...
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Quran mentions it in many a verses; one such place I have mentioned in another post today, I repeat it here:
  
  The Holy Quran : Chapter 112: Al-Ikhlas الإخلاص
  
  [112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
  [112:2] Say, ‘He is Allah, the One;
  [112:3] ‘Allah, the Independent and Besought of all.
  [112:4] ‘He begets not, nor is He begotten;
  [112:5] ‘And there is none like unto Him.’
  
  http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … php?ch=112
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Paar.
  
  Peace to you
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  hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  another place the quran contradicts the bible.
  
  thanks paar
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Quran only confirms only truthful accounts mentioned in Bibel; Quran does not confirm where Bible is wrong.This way Quran corrects Bible.
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  hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  abram was told to sacrifice his son isaac.
  God sacrificed his Son Jesus
  
  do you not see the parallel?
  God will never ask us to do something He is not willing to do.
  The quran corrects nothing
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Abraham was told in a dream or vision which is always interpretable.
  
  Abraham did not kill Isaac or Ishmael; both lived longer and are spread in the whole world.
  
  Once the above example was set by the Creator-God; how could He be so cruel to kill His son. The Creator-God Allah YHWH has no sons; it is evident from the above.
  
  You don't kill your sons or daughters. Do you?
  
  I don't think you will be so cruel even in your imagination.
  
  The Christians need to reform and follow Jesus as a role model; sinful Paul or sinful Church need not be followed.
  
  Others could think differently; no compulsion.
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SirDentposted 12 years ago
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the input Sir Dent
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DoubleScorpionposted 12 years ago
Hmmm. with the exception of one or two...no-one has even mentioned the fact that "Jesus" was around long before he was actually born of Mary...Everyone is thinking Physical(Man) and not Spiritual(God).
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
  Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
  Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
  
  Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes that is true... and if you continue to read down St. John Chapter one you will see that Jesus is also referred to as the Light of Man...And if you read Genesis Chapter one...On the first day God SAID (word of god) "Let there be Light"(Jesus)...So Not created nor was he born...he is the word of God and he is the Light...and on the First Day God Spoke and we have "Jesus"...This entity was later to become the human form we read about known as the Son of Man...Jesus Christ/Yeshua Messiah. You will notice that everything else that was actually Created happened after God Spoke the words "let there be light" Thus we have All things being created through him....
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The light was Jesus? That will be hard to fit. Light is light. Jesus was the light of man because man was in darkness.
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  hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God is light. shekinah glory light... when abraham was put in the crevice and God passed by.. the light in the holy of holies.. shekinah light.
  This is a bright light.
  when God spoke let there be light, he was referring to his own light that he cast first upon creation before he invented the sun to shine.
  Jesus was not around at creation because he was not brought into this world yet via marys incubational ability. But God .. who is Jesus was around at creation.
  
  The jewish people use light as an allegory or a metaphor. John uses light and dark often to compare the works of good and evil. The light in genesis is different and means light as in bright shiny.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes true..And Jesus is referred to as the "Bright Morning Star" When I speak of "jesus" in the beginning I am not tlaking about the Man...I am talking About "Jesus" in his first form prior to him becoming Man.
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hanging outposted 12 years ago
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

We have the holy Ghost and power of the Highest shall overshadow. I want to look at this closely. I see two mights of God, his HG and the power of the highest. A key word here is overshadow. The impression I get from this is an overshadowing. If i stand and the sun shines, i cast a shadow if a cloud comes between me and the sun, my shadow is overshadowed and my shadow is no longer seen, it is not part of the scenario any longer because a greater shadow looms overhead. If mary is the shadow, shape or image that is OVER shadowed, she is not part of the scenario. I purport that no part of mary was used in the creation of jesus, except that she incubate the zygote of God. Gods power and holy ghost were the only two powers present in the creation - not even her egg.

In keeping with my conclusion above: "holy thing" is next up for scrutiny. Flesh must bring forth flesh. A human must have a baby human. This baby human normally is not a "holy thing". How can God say a holy thing is going to be birthed if it is human. Humans are far from holy. What comes forth from a woman is a fleshly husk with an undeveloped nature but in this instance of God being in the husk, it has a developed nature (for he never sinned) and was wrapped in the flesh which a human births.

Paul states in Colossians 2:9 For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. This is in keeping with the "holy thing" previously stated. If ALL the fullness of the godhead dwelt in christ then the half man, half God scenario is not true and really this leaves us with one conclusion: God was wrapped in flesh.

So yes God was birthed. Jesus is the name given to the fleshly husk just as my name is john and my friends name is bill. But when we say that Jesus was around at the time of creation is not exactly correct. God was around. Jesus was yet to be birthed by mary but seeing as this is a work of God... Jesus was created in Mary and begotten or birthed through her ability to incubate the zygote that God totally created.
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and how is a zygote supposed to form without a father's DNA? You said God was spirit & doesn't have sex (and wouldn't have a penis either, presumably). And if Jesus wasn't human in any way, except for being born, how would Jesus really be tempted etc?
  
  And how is Jesus supposed to be from the line of David when only the males were recognised in a blood-line & no sperm was used? They just conveniently said Mary was from the line of David?
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  just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Bailey bear. I know you don't belief in the scriptures, but a virgin birth, however improbable, is not firmly within the bounds of impossible. It has been documented in vertebrates. Science has been experimenting with parthenogenesis in mammals. Although no one has yet to determine if this can be assisted safely, they have had some limited success within the laboratory. I am not, in any way, saying it will ever be possible. I am simply saying it cannot be ruled out. Faith makes one see the spirit of God involved.
  
  As to the lineage of the line of Joseph; his was detailed, I'm sure,due to the prejudices of the times. Although women were considered of little value, their lineages were still documented. It is interesting to note that modern Judaism in America, at least as I have read, judges the judaism of the child by the mother, not the father.
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  there has been no documented cases of humans spontaneously conceiving without sperm or modern science. Guess it makes for a pretty big excuse for getting pregnant - god did it!
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  just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, you missed the point. There are no documented cases. I am not saying it is possible. What I am saying is, it is not necessarily impossible. Big difference. I would not begin to argue the virgin birth. I don't believe it is necessarily important for a Christian to believe in it.
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  so you believe it and don't defend it? But christians just claim that anything is possible with an invisible superbeing
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  just_curiousposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I didn't say I believe it. I don't see reasonable doubt on this issue as negating my belief in Christ.
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  hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  its kinda like the rapture.
  first we get to christ and everything else fits snuggly.
  when is the question though
  lol
  getting through the flesh is a constant battle with many trips along the way. We may all die with some sin but considerably less sin than prior to salvation. and kudos to us for believing and trying
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  hanging outposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  god created all things. A zygote is no big deal. He created genes, stars, flesh.
  Jesus was human in the way that all humans are human. They are encased in flesh, subject to the desires of the flesh.
  
  Mary was from the line of david
  Matthew is stating Joseph's line and Luke is stating Mary's line. Under Lukes text, Jesus would be a biological descendant of David through his mother.
  Matthew traces the lineage from David, through Solomon, while Luke traces the lineage through Nathan, Solomon's brother.
  The lineage aspect is a deep subject there is a curse upon jeconiah and then a brother marries a brothers wife.... to deep for now
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Matthew 1:16...And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ.
  
  Luke 3:23...Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli,
  
  Mary's father was a priest and was of the Levites.
  
  Joseph was of the Line of Judah.
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jay_kumar_07posted 12 years ago
In BIBLE - GOD asked himself and decided to send one person to earth.[who can i send .... ]

He choose a heavenly person[Humble servant]. And decide his BIRTH&NAME through Mother marry.

The person is JESUS. [Humble servant]
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So you believe that "Jesus the spirit (or heavenly persona)" was always around...And God chose him to become as a human and be born of Mary? And I understanding you correctly? And do you have a written reference that backs up your beliefs, please? Peace be to you
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  jay_kumar_07posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  BIBLE
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  spookyfoxposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hahahha, best response ever. The epitome of a christian argument:
  
  "BIBLE"
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DoubleScorpionposted 12 years ago
So far I see a Majority saying that Jesus was begotton(born). Since he is considered by most to be the Son of God because he was begotton by god, does this in fact make each and every true believer (as they have to be "born again") also the son/daughter of god and therefore on equal ground with Jesus.
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  workingmomwmposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Matthew 12:50
  
  We are brothers and sisters of Christ, but I don't think we can ever really be on equal footing with Him. He, after all, was without sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15), and we are not.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  jesus never claimed to be without sin. in fact he stated that the only one that was good (without flaw/sin) was god. Paul and others much later claimed that jesus was without sin.
  
  And once a person is "reborn" in god through christ. from that point on should be without sin. but of course most people aren't truly reborned as claimed.
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  workingmomwmposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, this is going to sound smart-ass, but I don't really mean it that way. How do you know that Jesus never claimed to be without sin? Not every word or action of Christ was recorded. All we have is a limited glimpse from the gospels (John 21:25).
  
  Jesus did, however, claim to be one with God (John 10:30). And I think (because you didn't say in your reply) that the verse you are referring to is Matthew 19:17. So, if God is good then, by extension, Jesus is, too. And, according to the original Greek, the word "good" used there does not mean without flaw or sin. It means: of good constitution or nature; useful, salutary; good, pleasant, agreeable, joyful, happy; excellent, distinguished; upright, honorable.
  
  Now, as far as rebirth in Christ ... When we accept Jesus as our Savior, we enter into the sanctification process. We are all born with a sin nature which marks us for death. Accepting Jesus as Savior frees us from the consequences of the sin nature, but it does not remove the sin nature from us. Therefore, we will all still commit sins while we're alive because not one of us is perfect, and the sanctification process is not yet complete.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hmm if Jesus died for the sin of all men and sacrifice is no longer required then how are men still born in sin...jesus died to create a new covenant between god and men and took on himself all prior sins of man...therefore men are born without sin...
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A verey intelligent observation.
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  workingmomwmposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Man has to accept Jesus' sacrifice. He actually took upon Himself ALL sin - prior and future. The new covenant didn't eradicate the sin nature. It just set up a more complete system of sacrifice.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  you might want to re-read the sections on the sacrifice of christ. The bible states that ALL sins of prior man was covered by the blood of christ. that includes the original sin which is what we were all held accountable for. So I say again that man is now born without sin, because jesus was sacrificed for all past sins. only the sins that the individual does now counts against him. and sacrifice by the "parent" counts even if you didn't ask for it. so after you are no longer under the care of your 'parents" (age of accountablity) you are forgiven any sin you might do because your parent asks for the forgivness. after that you are on your own. The asking for and receiving of forgiveness is still a form of sacrifice. To this day a sacrifice is require for sins we currently do on a daily basis. Jesus covered the original sins that we were born with, which is why we are no longer required to give up the 2 doves on the 33rd or 66th day after birth.
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  workingmomwmposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you could point out these passages you speak of, since I am so in error.
  
  Do you have children? If you do, how can you assert that we are born without sin? My little girls, as much as I love them, are definitely born sinners. Why else are they so ready to do just the thing that would happen to be the worst thing for them?
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I have Children. And Lack of knowledge is not the same as sin. Just because my kids have not learned all the survival tools required to live on there own does not mean that they are sinners. Kids don't not know how to sin. They are taught to sin by thier parents...
  
  And As far as scriptures go.
  
  Matthew 26:28
  Mark 14:24
  Luke 22:20
  Hebrews 9:15
  Hebrews 8:13
  Jeremiah 31:31
  Hebrews 10:9-22
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  workingmomwmposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for the scriptures, but I still don't see anything that refers to the removal of our sin nature through the new covenant.
  
  But, I realize now that I'm wasting my time arguing with you, so I'm going to quit. And thank you, by the way, for insulting me by telling me that I've taught my children how to sin.
  
  It must be nice to be so perfect. Sorry the rest of us can't be like you.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I did not insult you. I was simply stating my opinions. I was not talking about you. I was simply explaining how I look at things. And I have never claimed to be perfect. Also I don't care to argue either, I prefer to debate...
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  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you mean they are ready to murder, steal, commit adultery, covet they neighbor, etc. ?? In other words, are your daughters morally evil or are they just nice girls?
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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derowrposted 12 years ago
The 1st Day of Creation:

"The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of GOD moved upon the face of the waters." (Gen 1:2)

Then GOD spoke HIS Word into being.......

"Let there be Light"!

And "There was Light".......(Gen 1:3)

And such 'Light' was to be, and is, Eternal!

So it is that Hope is Alive!

Even though this wicked world begins and ends it's day in darkness it is good to realize that the 1st Day of Creation, although begun midst the darkness, ended in 'Light'! (Gen 1:5)

And such 'Light' was not the sun, moon or stars for they were not created until the 4th Day. (Gen 1:14-19)

GOD's Word "Let there be Light" became "The Light which enlightens every man born into the world" and was "the glory The Messiah had with Our Father before the world began".......(John 1:9, 17:5)

LIGHT Begot Light.......

LIKE Begot Like.......

The Messiah, "The Light of the world".......(Jn8:12)

The Messiah, "The beginning of The Creation of GOD".......(Rev1:1, 3:14)

The Messiah, "The Son of The Living GOD".......(John 6:69)

And Our Father, HE "created all things by(of, in and thru) The Messiah".......(Ep3:9)

The 1st Day of Creation.

"And GOD called The Light, Day, and the darkness HE called night. And the evening(darkness) and The Morning(Light) was The 1st Day." (Gen 1:5)

Now if the beginning can not be 'seen' nor understood, then what of the end?

Confusion would reign! And today confusion does reign midst the religious systems of this world, for apart from "The Light" there is only darkness, "the blind leading the blind" ;-(

And the Apostle Paul saw "The Light" that is The Messiah on the road to Damascus:

"At midday, O king, I saw in the way a Light from Heaven, which was above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.

And when we had all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.

And I said, Who are you, Master? And The Messiah said, I am Y'shua(for He spoke in the Hebrew tongue) Whom you are persecuting". (Acts 26:13-15)

GOD's Word "Let there be Light" became "The Light which enlightens every man born into the world", "The Light" that is The Messiah, and was "the glory The Messiah had with Our Father before the world began".......(John 1:9, 17:5)

Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this world and it's systems of religion "for the WHOLE(not just a portion) world is under the control of the evil one", indeed and Truth.......(1John 5:19)

Truth IS, a lie never was and is not.......

Abide in Truth.......
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Very Nice!!
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Very Nice!!
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paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
Jesus was not a begotten son of god as Mary was not sired by god;Jesus was Son of Mary and Son of Adam.

The Creator-God has no wife and needs no sons and daughters.
The Holy Quran : Chapter 112: Al-Ikhlas الإخلاص

[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say, ‘He is Allah, the One;
[112:3] ‘Allah, the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] ‘He begets not, nor is He begotten;
[112:5] ‘And there is none like unto Him.’

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … php?ch=112
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Creator-God needs no wife or consort.
  
  [6:101] And they hold the Jinn to be partners with Allah, although He created them; and they falsely ascribe to Him sons and daughters without any knowledge. Holy is He and exalted far above what they attribute to Him!
  [6:102] The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a son when He has no consort, and when He has created everything and has knowledge of all things?
  [6:103] Such is Allah, your Lord. There is no God but He, the Creator of all things, so worship Him. And He is Guardian over everything.
  
  http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=101
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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BunuBobuposted 12 years ago
Jesus was definitely born of a virgin.
Virgins gave birth more than a few times:

Horus
Dionysus
Mithras
Osiris
Buddha
Krishna
Attis

LOL

There are probably more. Even now, virgins could be giving birth through various parts of their anatomy.
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spookyfoxposted 12 years ago
Who is Jesus Begotton? I haven't heard of him. Is he a new popstar?
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  jay_kumar_07posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  BIBLE
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  spookyfoxposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hahaha, brilliant.
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workingmomwmposted 12 years ago
I vote for "Other." (Genesis 1:26; John 1:1; 1:14)

I believe Jesus existed in some form in the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth. Then he was transformed into human form in Mary's womb. And, no, I don't think God came down to earth and actually knocked her up. I think it was one of His miracles. He is God, after all, and can create life out of nothing. And then Jesus' fully formed human body was born, just like we all are (John 3:16; Philippians 2:5-8).
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  jay_kumar_07posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  GOOD
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paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
Jesus is neither god nor son of god; he is son of man and a messenger prophet of the Creator-God Allah YHWH.
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  workingmomwmposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Okay. Sure. If that's what you believe. It's not what I believe.
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Pieter de Waalposted 4 years ago
The word "begotten" is an unfortunate King James translation of the Greek word "monogenes".
We will better understand this word if we split it up as mono+genus.
mono = "one and only" or "unique"
genus = "species" or more accurately "kind"

Jesus, therefore, also known as "the Light" or "the Word" or "the Truth", was one with God from the beginning. He is the only Being that exists that is of the same "kind" as God.

[Heb 1:3 ESV] "He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature".

To be born, He first had to enter into human form and be placed into the womb of Mary.

"Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." [Php 2:5-7 ESV]

So strictly speaking then, Mary was not His biological mother. Yet still, He legally inherited the earthly status of King from his Joseph as His stepfather and the status of High Priest from his Mary as His surrogate mother.

Even though Jesus was God who took the form of man, He had to the power to take on His divine form at will.

"And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light." [Mat 17:2 ESV]

Yet He chose not to, in order to pay for our sins.

"No one takes my life from me. I give it up willingly! I have the power to give it up and the power to receive it back again, just as my Father commanded me to do." [Joh 10:18 CEV]

So, coming back to "begotten". It has nothing to do with His earthly birth, but everything to do with His divinity.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 4 years ago
transformation
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