Interesting study published at the American Physical Society suggests that religion will all but die out in seven countries who's cencus data has been used to create a mathematical model.
Sad to see that an element of our cultural heritage is likely to be lost, or do you just see it as an inevitable trend towards common sense?
The sooner the better. Of course, we'll fill the void with something else to fight about. It's what we do.
Of course, no wars are really about religion any more; if ever.
The countries studied are Australia, Austria, Canada, the Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland; all wealthy developed western nations.
It'd be more interesting to see Nigeria, Idonesia, India, Congo Pakistan, Egypt and also the USA. See where they're headed. I suspect it would actually be the same way - just a far slower gradient.
I reckon we could start a new way to fight.
Everyone can fight over how to give more love, do more for their family, their friends, neighbors and others.
The new god of love will then pass judgment on those who don't help out and tax them incessantly.
We will call this new god by an old name. Democracy.
your pie in the sky ideaology is full of delusion.
Democracy is under control by an elite few. IF you think the vote is all powerful, guess again. Do you think that those who have been molding the world for 100s of years are going to let a bunch of genetically challenged poor people tell them who to put in office.
Revolutions have started because of democracy and tyrannism, they are both the same thing, just different names and playing fields.
Im glad you have hope in humanity. When times get tough, i am sure you will share all you have with your neighbours.
"Democracy is under control by an elite few. IF you think the vote is all powerful, guess again. Do you think that those who have been molding the world for 100s of years are going to let a bunch of genetically challenged poor people tell them who to put in office."
He's right. You guys should jump on the common sense wagon. It's been going around for a very long time.
Sure, man needs something to quarrel about! So much so for being a social animal!
Wow. You still the same person or is someone else writing in your name? lol....
Imagine my shock when I stepped outside of my bubble.
May your journey be a happy and successful one.
It was a log flume. I coughed up hairballs for three days. It's all cool though. I changed my avatar to suit my mood. It's quite fascinating to realize how quickly you come to conclusions when you step back and look at it dispassionately. I suppose I never bothered before since I didn't actually interact with any people who talk religion on a personal level. This place is a madhouse of personal beliefs. It definitely shocked me into thinking about what is actually on the minds of the fundamentalists. Glad I came in.
an inevitable trend towards common sense- I bet Mark Knowles and Earnest can hardly wait!
True, I have no love of being constantly threatened in a forum by someone else's gods wrath. I don't care what others want to believe if they don't force feed it with constant threads. I try to educate in order to protect my grandchildren from this sort of rot by confronting it wherever it appears in the hope that they will wake up and start living their own lives, leaving others to do the same.
an indocrination of atheism
let me introduce you to irony.
someone who wasnt scared would educate a child in both.
Haha, well they don't need that much of an invitation do they?!
That's like being sad we don't burn witches at the stake anymore
It is a historical fact that major religions seldom last more than 2000 to 4000 years. Most of the current major religions are less than 2000 years old. The exceptions are Hinduism and Judaism. But they are less than 4000 years old. There will always be small pockets of believers and revivals. But religion is losing and has lost it's political power in most countries. The exception being Islam. But then, it's their time. All major religions go through a time where they rule, and when the people are fed up they find a way to take that power away.
But what is growing is atheism and agnosticism. So this time rather than going to another religion, I think we will see the major decline and fall of religion within a couple hundred years.
Again, there will likely always be pockets of believers, but I think the days the majority being religious is in deep decline and all but over.
I've said it before, and I will say it again... religion is nothing more than an outdated form of government.
But, don't confuse religion with spirituality.
Not to worry!
It will not happen in our lifetime.
There would have to be a massive reduction in human population and a dedicated 1 world gov't to control those who remain.
There would have to be universal education and well enforced fiats dedicated to the destruction of primitive religious thought and action.
There is no possibility of that happening for a very very long time. Maybe a millenia.
That 1 world gov't would have to govern with a "Machiavellian" steel fist and would have to have the survival of the human species as its goal!
Religion has so fragmented mankind that it cannot work in concert for its continuing survival.
Time, overpopulation, ignorance, deprivation etc., have already gained the upper hand.
Contemporary man has no method of counteracting the inevitable coming catastrophe!
There is no danger to the truthful religion; it will remain as fresh as ever; no worry.
Religion creates conflict based on selfish behavior, which can never lead to peace.
I'd largely agree with that, though I think religion is often used as a cover for other motives for war.
The data presented - from the point of view of a Brit like me probably doesn't cause too many surprises - particularly the countries they reviewed. It doesn't look at America which I see as largely bucking the trend to non-religousity with greater wealth, standard of living, education etc.
America isn't bucking the trend in all actuality. The people(Americans) are always hopeful. Thus, if asked if they believe in a god, almost always say- "Yes", simply because they rather not deal with the backlash of saying "No".
Well, you lot scare the hell out of us across the pond!!! Abortion clinic bombing, young earthers standing for a job to get thier finger on the button, banning government funded stem cell research at the drop of a (cowboy) hat!
I guess there's a certain cultural norm to which people feel they must adhere.
There's discussion of it with regards to our upcoming census in the news today (it happens once every ten years)...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12637201
The concern is that it basically allows the respondent to tick only one box; so some that regard themselves as culturally christian, sikh, muslim etc. and yet have no real belief , do not have an opportunity to state this.
Advocate groups powered by religious institutions has done most of the damage. However, as my advocate company grows and increases awareness of the topics I write about, then things in America are going to change, because change cannot be fought.
It must occur.
religion would die since it cannot adopt...my book only book , my god only god doesnot hold much of water considering how humans are evolving...present religion would try hard to adopt...like vatican saying sorry to galileo or recent controversy of using birth control measures and such things...but at core religion wont be too liberal to change its thinking pattern and is bound to become extinct...sooner it does , better the world would be...but i guess europe would take the lead...
I agree. It is on a slippery path to nowhere fast. As you said the Vatican did apologize to Galileo, but look how long it took. We live in a fast paced world, and the old myths will fall away with more communication and the education it will bring.
yup ...education , communication and fast paced scientific discoveries...all would nail religion...but i am afraid that this would create vaccum and some another religion might get introduced...though it is not easy to claim miracles in world of youtube and facebook...it would get debunked within hours...
No way! The Vatican did something ....gulp....wrong??
LOL. Sorry, but I've read some much stuff and heard so much stuff from Catholics about the infallibility of the Popes! No wonder it took so long for 'em to apologize to Galileo.
I'm actually with ya, earnestshub, on the opinion about religions! Religions do err so much.
But then, I don't consider Christianity just a religion. So there we go again.
Well we know where to from here, so I will just add that at least one religion, regardless that they are Catholic has admitted they had it wrong. Is that a first?
Let's be fair to the vatican, they did apologise and at least they didn't take their time over it. 400 years isn't that long!
I hope it dies out and I think it inevitabley will because you're right, it can't adapt and when it does, it becomes less relevant.
You jest, surely!
Knowing that liberal Americans are now pushing for the "right" to kill their own babies doesn't scare you, but the bombing of abortion clinics does? That's so twisted.
Don't want an abortion? Don't have one. If you are going to have one do it within the first three months. After that the fetus has developed a brain and nerves. Personally, I wouldn't sanction abortion after three months unless the mother's life is at risk. But that's me. The law is clear. It is not a baby until it is born. It is not a person until it is born. So legally abortion is not murder.
A woman has the right to do with her body what she wants. If she wants to think oft the fetus like a parasite then it is her natural right to abort it. She will whether the law allows or not. That often results in the death of often teen age girls.
Now if you are using abortion as birth control you are a whack job anyway. Better you don't have kids. Better to have your tubes tied and be done with it.
Another reason for abortion is that it is often better to be aborted than abused. How many kids die because their parents didn't want them in the first place or are too mentally unstable to be able to handle them? Those kids are just delayed abortions. That's societies fault if it gives no options to desperate woman.
That's what abortion laws are for, to give people options.
Bombing abortion clinics is murder by definition, if someone dies there. No ifs ands or buts. To think otherwise is definitely twisted.
I wouldn't sanction killing anything that was GOING to be a human being. The potential of it becoming a life of it's own and growing on it's own says LIFE that you are KILLING.
Maybe they should just not whore around and get knocked up.
And even then they could be responsible enough to take advantage of a MULTI-BILLION dollar birth control industry..
There's no excuse for abortions. OR BOMBING ANYTHING.. They are both wrong. Period.
Plant a seed. Let a leaf pop out. Then soak it with bleach. That's exactly what your doing. KILLING.
No one is making you terminate your pregnancies. What makes you think you have the right to make choices for other people? They get to lead their own lives - so do you.
It's called live and let live.
Really? Live and let live, is it?
Tell that to the little babies whose mothers abort them. Oh wait, ya can't, can ya? 'Cause they're dead.
The decision on when life becomes viable is not yours to make. It is a judgment call for our society. Maybe our society will determine that date is at conception - perhaps not.
The main point is that the determination is not yours to make based on your interpretation of morality. Again I ask, what makes you think you have the right to impose your moral values (i.e., your beliefs) on others?
Seriously, who says?
What's "our society"? Aren't you a part of that society? Am I not also? And this little part of "our society" makes, as does the Bible, the "judgement call" that abortion is wrong.
What gives another portion of society the right to impose their obviously-wrong beliefs upon me and others in this society?
Part of the sacrifices of personal freedom we make to live in organized societies is to allow those societies to determine our laws. In the U.S. we happen to live in a Republic, so elected representatives make the determinating laws for us and the Supreme Court determines if those laws are constitutional when there is a question.
The question is not about right or wrong - the question is simply what does our society - and the constitution - allow.
You are free to express your views - you are not free to impose a majority belief system if by doing so you violate the constitution.
Most people do not understand this - the U.S. constitution is there to protect certain inviolate rights of the minority from being violated by a majority.
I agree almost completely with your last sentence! And I agree that America is a Republic.
And unborn babies are a piece of that society that's protected under those "inviolate rights". Of either the minority or the majority!
I say "almost completely" because I think you mean the majority should "rule" no matter what, and that's not right. I propose to you that, even if the majority of society were to take the position that abortion is allowable, that majority would be wrong and therefore have no right to impose that belief.
There must remain a basis, a fundamental set of values, that a society goes by, and upon which it bases all laws. Otherwise, there is confusion and chaos. Which we are seeing now in the U.S.
(Yes, God "gets a pass" if you wanna put it that way, for anything He does.)
And the logical extension to this claim is that because you are a follower of god and abide by his will that anything you do must then also be good and right, as well. So when you hijacked those planes and flew them into the twin towers, killing 3,000 civilians, that gets a "pass" because god gets a pass for anything he does and thus you, as a follower, are only an agent of his will and therefore innocent of any wrongdoing.
How convenient. What? You're not Muslin, you scream? Sorry. So, when you tortured those 50,000 people to death during the Inquisition, that gets a pass because god gets a pass and you are god's agent....etc. (see above)?
Furthermore, if god gets a pass for all his actions, and you as a follower of god are his agent, then if you decide to get an abortion that would have to be O.K. because god can do no wrong - your abortion then would get a pass but not that of the poor rape victim - that would still be a sin.
Nice religion you got there - kind of a no-lose proposition.
It gives me the creeps.
.(Your projection isn't even a logical extension; it's actually very illogical.)
Perhaps I am not making logical sense, but simply saying, "huh uh" is not considered a valid refutation of logic. Make your case, please.
(God is perfect and almighty. He is Good. I am not)
Let me see if I have this straight. Because god is stronger than you are, anything he does becomes automatically right because no one can force him to change his actions - might makes right.
Because of this might, any crime that god does is not a crime, while if you perform the same criminal action that god just performed you are wrong.
And this is supposed to make logical sense?
God, being God, cannot commit "crimes". His word is the Law.
God is the author of existence you neuron..
What He says it right or wrong, is what is right or wrong.
Where do you think every dinky thought in your tiny little brain came from?
Including you "ideas" of right and wrong? That's right... GOD.
Except your ideas are the ones twisted by a bunch of little creations who think the inventor designed the machine wrong and stopped listening..
Like you're going to listen when your computer says it doesn't have to listen to you right? No... You're going to scrap it? Are you wrong for doing so???
Too bad some people's mother's didn't abort them. Maybe then we wouldn't have so many upholding abortion...
You wouldn't have minded your mother aborting you would you?
(You wouldn't have minded your mother aborting you would you? )
I never would have known what happened. I would not be here to know that I am not here. What's your point? None, as usual. Typical of Christian dulusions.
I guess you and Benda give an auto-pass to god for all the spontaneous abortions he allows to occur naturally.
Christians are nothing but a bunch of control freaks with bad self-images.
I've been called much worse. How 'bout you, vector7? LOL
Yes, God "gets a pass" if you wanna put it that way, for anything He does. He is almighty. It's a good thing He's a good God. Who are you or anyone else to reply against Him?
Little wonder u been causin so many wars innit? My Great Grand ma was a real Christian and would a taken care a u She dispised divorced wimmin preechin - like wot the biyble sez.
Wonder if HubPages ever considered the option of us having taglines attached to the bottom of all our posts?.....
That way, you could keep sayin' over and over "No wonder yer religion causes so many wars". Ya know, so's you wouldn't have to keep typin' that broken record over and over. You could even correct yer typos in it! Wouldn't that be grrrrrand!?
Here's mine: (or, one of mine anyway):
"Aesop and the Villagers have told the Shepherd Boy's story wrong.
The Wolf really was there, lurking, in the shadows, all along..."
"I guess you and Benda give an auto-pass to god for all the spontaneous abortions he allows to occur naturally."
You must be confused. It's God that gives anything a pass. And if He takes a life from this world, He can give it rest in the next.
A bunch of blabber about God from a man who doesn't know the first thing about Him.
And for his sake Brenda, I hope he finds something worse to call me. He's not going to do much good against Christianity at that rate...
He's got to deal with God head on anyway. No intercession from Christ Jesus with that attitude. Hey, spare the rod spoil the child though right?
I don't agree with you; the founders of all revealed religions were selfless persons, like Buddha,Socrates,Krishna,Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad ; they amassed no wealth or riches; they were not corrupt people; they were honest people who served humanity well.
It is a baseless blame of the atheists.
founders never wanted religion...they never wanted sect...they never wanted few people calling themselves scholars rule over masses...i think you have got confused between religion and spirituality...religion has only one purpose to make people fear unproven entity and follow the so called scholars...it is bondage ...and it works ...
Of course you wouldn't agree. A prime example of selfish behavior. And, you need to research and every time you post I know you haven't.
You do realize you are like the 10 zillionth person to call that in the last 2 or so thousand years right?
Every time there's a spate of natural disasters, the numbers spike on that call too. The only thing more predictable is sunrise (which I realize will be ceasing soon).
I think that the world religions we are all familiar with were destined to fail because they are simply too dated. Bronze age answers, no matter how many times they are repackaged, are only going to satisfy people in a modern world for so long. The only thing that will save the religions that have remained popular for the last couple of millennium is a major disaster (man made or natural).
If a big enough disaster happens, then priests and imams and shamans and rabbis will be able to run out with their dusty old tomes held high, and say, "Seee!" Many of them are trying desperately to create the disaster before it's too late and they lose all their power, but it's going to be harder and harder to convince people that the old stories are truly "the word of god" in a global culture that has access to one another in the ways we do today, which is essentially what that article seems to suggest.
If no major catastrophe, no "Armageddon," hits in a timely fashion, then the currently popular religions will fail and get tossed on the heap of discarded religions with the once great religions that came before them (and that birthed them), which lay upon the ones that came before them and so on.
But not to worry, humanity loves its religion, so something will come along. It always has. It might take a disaster to give it some fertile soil to grown in, or it might just take some really charismatic person and a bit of luck. A lightning bolt at just the right time, or a meteor appearing at the right moment in a speech somewhere, caught on film would do it.
Or else the aliens will appear and they'll give us a new one. People will want one after a while. They always do. Some anyway.
I think a lot of it has to do with things like the internet. Never before has there been a time when information was so readily available to the average person. No longer do people only rely on their pastor for information, which would invariably be biased. People read articles that are critical of religion and read the arguments between believers and non-believers that those articles inspire. It is very telling that, instead of people's faith being strengthened by access to this information, it is actually being destroyed. Truth always wins - period.
amazingly, people manage to stay in their little bubbles & keep believing what they want to without checking out what the other side has to say
Many christians have come from the 'other side'. No need to check out, despondancy, slavery to fleshly desires, lack of hope, hapiness instead of joy... What this world has to offer pales in comparison with what God offers.
Been there, done that, got the tshirt, threw the t-shirt away, finished repeating unending cycles that are destructive, come out of egypt...
things are sooo much better now.
Sooo much better because you now have hope that there is a majik sky fairy who will punish the atheists for not beleiving in it and reward you with eternal life for denying your natural impulses?
And this give you joy?
No wonder your religion causes so many wars.
fleshy desires....sounds like fun! Except I was brought up to believe sex was dirty
(What this world has to offer pales in comparison with what God offers.)
You are so cool!
God offers thunbscrews, the rack, burning at the stake, drownings, bashing childrens' heads against rocks, murder of firstborn, drowning of the world population, turning women into salt.....
It's like Disneyland for the Marquis de Sade
Education is spreading. Religion will go the way of all such myths.
During an interview with an American magazine, John Lennon said, “Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue that. I am certain. Jesus was okay, but his subjects were too simple. Today, we are more famous than Him. (1966)
Sure it will. Same argument. Different disguise....
Yup - atheism is fast growing in educated societies - it just takes time to eradicate such nonsense - especially with you guys still indoctrinating innocent children. Don't worry - your religion will die out soon.
Dreams are just that Mark.. Dreams..
I thought that's what atheism was about. Not having dreams?
Correction, atheism is about not having religious delusions.
Bible prophesy says the world will adopt a one world religion and you will either join it, starve to death or be killed. It also says it will be the wrong religion. That makes since, only the wrong religion would have such a bad sales pitch they have to threaten to cut your head off if you don't join, and they still might after you join. Sounds familiar.
Well if we all wake up one day and see everyone in the world all joining the same religion with a mark on their hand or forehead I would grab my bible and see what I missed, if there are any still around.
I don't know. I am surrounded by mega churches, none of which I would step foot into, but not because I am not a man of faith, but because I don't have faith in mega-churches.
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
You do realize, even by the bible, all prophesies have been fulfilled? Meaning there are no more to fill.
You'll be long gone by the time it happens anyways, so don't worry.
So you have a belief in a god, but don't follow organized religions.
Yes, it will most certainly will be interesting. That's for sure.
no i know you havent read or just don't understand the bible. don't knock til you try it
Ok. Ignorance means that you are unlearned. I don't know everything about the bible but i have learned and am know learning a lot. Everything that you say shows that you have not read or are not understanding the bible. I don't want to name call, I think we are all adults here.
In Alot of your comments you have posted, have misquoted what the bible is saying. I pointed this out before but you have not responded or you just say "your stupid"
Don't put Down something because you don't understand it.
Good luck to you man or woman.
Passingword, the bible is junk. When YOU learn to separate out Jesus' message and decipher it from it's code, then come back and we'll talk. Till then...quit with the mocking and insinuations of being learned.
OK sorry if i made you feel bad. I am not here for that. I just want to share what i have learned. though i am not one that knows everything i want you to get your info from one that will get there answer from the bible not from there imagination. The bible is good there is allot of truth in it. I don't want to judge but people just don't take the time to really study the bible. it is just like science if you read it over once or twice you would still believe the world was flat. but if you engulf yourself in it. take the word back to it original meaning you would see the world is round. If you are going to study the Bible, reading one versus is not going to help you. listening to someone that says he knows the bible is not going to help you. what is going to help you is to sit down and read, ask the lord for guidance.
In your case you don't believe in God so you are going to sit down to prove it is wrong. that is OK, that is what a lot of people have done. but at least you have read the truth for yourself. don't put your salvation in someone else's hands. And remember some of the bible is meant for the physical the other was meant for the spiritual. You have to read or ask to understand.
Good luck to you man.
The Bible is not junk. Those who don't like it because they already set their minds on being their own god just don't want to be held accountable or believe in the Son of God.
Unfortunately one day soon you'll die too. Then you can take it up with God.
And deny it all you want. You know there's a God and your going to have to face Him.
The little laughy faces and smart remarks are going to make you feel any better inside or make God go away either.
not all bible prophesies have been fulfilled. Jesus as King during the millenial kingdom has yet to come. The huge earthquake prior to his return has not occurred either and a some more.
The bible has not finished.
But be assured all will come to pass.
Prophecy has always come true, God is truth, there is more to come.
Just like so many of the prophesies have been fulfilled so far. People just don't look..
Hence the reason he has the absurd notion that there are no prophesies left to fulfill.
We know you don't have clue about that subject now don't we..
(not all bible prophesies have been fulfilled) (Prophecy has always come true)
Well, brother, you are certainly right there - we are still waiting for Nebuchadnezzar to utterly destroy Tyre. How much longer do you think we have to wait for that clunker of a prophecy to be true?
You know, if you make the statements vague enough you can get suckers who want to believe to provide the details and make it appear as if you knew all along what was going to happen - psychic charlatans use this technique of "cold reading" to mystify and bedazzle grieving relatives who desperately want to contact their lost dead.
The vast majority of bible "prophecies" are in this cold reading class - non-specific and fulfilled only because believers provided the manufactured details after the fact.
well i partially agree....present religion would become extinct i in future because of lack of ability to adapt with times...it worked as long as science didnt find real reasons for various phenomena ...as it progresses religion would find it difficult to exist but humans can't live without religious god , so their would be new religion created...
it make sense, however people will always find ways to appease themselves, and that they will discover another form of philosophy (not so much like religion), but a way of a coherent understanding of how things work in this world.
Science trying to prove the eventual extinction of religion is like a first grader trying to teach a college student how to read. Only not as cute.
Unless the world takes a Bradbury-style turn for the worse, there will always be people who use religion as a guide for their actions.
well i guess it is reverse...religion is kid's version of what made universe and such thing...it worked as long as humans remained to that level of understanding but as humans evolve and science discovers , religion would die as it cannot stand with time...it is already dying but not at rate which can be said as needed...but slowly it would die...
"The study found a steady rise in those claiming no religious affiliation." Doesn't mean they are not religious or spiritual. Means doesn't have a church affiliation. Some political pollsters say that you can get any result you want by the use of the question asked.
Religious affiliation? Doesn't mean that they are not religious? Did you think before you posted this reply. As for the spiritual? Sure, many believe in the mysticism derived from religion, for which, they cannot see past. No doubt about that.
Of course you can. Survey knowledge is constantly used and manipulated to show off things that it's not intended to show. Questions can be phrased in a manner, so as to deceive people who are taking the poll. I'll agree.
No religious affiliation means no power. No power means it doesn't matter. There will always be people that have their own beliefs. But fewer and fewer will believe in the Christian god until it is benign and harmless.
I'm all for people going away from organized religion. It means the decline will be faster.
If you're going to talk about statistical skewing, how about the fact that the numbers may be UNDERrepresented because people don't want to be overheard in a survey saying what they really THINK about religion, the possibility of God and spirituality, fearful of what their peer-group pressure might think, their boss, the local traffic-cops, other people with power over them? This is something more real. Maybe the question should have been, "You're in a safe place. No one can overhear you. We put a paper bag over your head. NOW what do you think about the possibility of God? Da or nyet?"
I'm with you on this. If living in some countries your chance of gaining office is nil without a declared religion of an acceptable denomination.
That's absurd. The typical Christian child in a public school takes more heat than we do from you guys.
And now everyone says, picks, and chooses what they want from the Biblical doctrine. It's an all or nothing gig. You can't say you believe in Heaven but not in Hell. that's ridiculous. But that's most of the people who 'claim' Christianity today.
They'd be better off just denying the whole Bible. Picking out what you want says none of it means beans to you. It's their "comfort" book, not their guide to life...
I wish Australia had topped the poll. Maybe next time
I wonder at what percentage it will be possible to stop the state funding of religious schools and programs and require (as we do from other profit-making enterprises) the payment of income tax? And when religion is finally extinct, who gets to sell the vast real estate holdings and keep all the money? The last believer?
The religion will be washed away by the people in atleast seven countries. The people are believing in love only and they want to spread love only. I , one day, while doing the business of yournetbiz came across such a point.
It's peace they are boasting. Look a little deeper. Powerful people are trying to melt the religions together into a one world religion. Christians will just say no.
I can understand your laughter. You're too busy repeating yourself in the forums to know what any country anywhere is doing.
Little wonder your religion causes so many wars.
Tell you what - you stop sticking your irrational beliefs at me - I stop laughing at your religion - deal?
Hmm. I didn't notice a "Dear Mark" anywhere on that post.
Please. Laugh away.
That is what I thought. No religionist will ever take the deal to stop spreading the hatred.
Nonsense. I love you Mark. Unconditionally.
I know you don't like me loving you. Or you deny it.
But I love you..
No - you don't, random internet troll using a fake persona whom I have never met.
This is why your religion causes so many wars. Because you think you cannot develop morals or ethics without an Invisible Super Being in the Sky and you do not actually believe in the Invisible Super Being - deep down.
This leaves you without a moral compass. Which is why so many christians are murderers and rapists.
same old argument.
I can just as easily say that your moral compass is on a sliding scale. You tell people not to stick their doctrines at you (when you show up in their thread) and that we cause wars, you call our God an invisible super being in the Sky and you claim we cannot develop morals or ethics.
I see words like that causing wars and you are not christian therefore using you as an example i will say people like you are causing wars and for what i am able to guess you probably cause wars outside of here. I am not wrong because i assume exactly what you are assuming.
Some catholics wanted control x amount of hundreds of years ago and you are blaming christians (not catholics) today for that CATHOLIC evil. You have heard countless times that catholics are not christian but a blend of pagan with some bible and a bible they interpret wrongly on purpose, but you say christians cause wars. Politicians and governments create war for monetary reasons. This is well within the limitations of economic thinking inside of reality, but you choose to ignore reality so long as in doing so it supports what you want.
Good luck with this moral code of yours.
if you can show any kindness at all i would be amazed. But then showing kindness to christians might be some sort of moral code, obviously the moral code of humanism. "I can be nice to those that i choose too be nice to". Now you're probably thinking that i am being mean and that's not christian. No NO. Jesus said i am to bless MY enemies. He didn't say bless the enemies of God. You are totally Gods enemy by the way you direct your attacks at Him. You are not my enemy and therefore i can deal harshly. God takes care of his enemies; i do not need to defend him but i will correct you. This is a type of love otherwise i would not care to do so. There are 4 types of love in the bible.
i am figuring you will not understand this or perhaps even try or care to.
I hope that the way you choose to manage your life truly gives you happiness.
Yes it does thank you.
But - this is why your religion causes so many wars. You think I am an enemy of god and that you need to correct me. God does not exist, therefore you are starting a conflict with me for no reason. I see you do not go with the whole "love everyone as you love yourself" thing either - that is OK - most Christians don't. But - I wonder if you see how arrogant and irrational this all sounds? Probably not - the denial is strong in you.
I don't care that your bible tells you to burn me at the stake to show me how much you love me. Or even tell me that you do not believe I can show any kindness to anyone because I don't believe in your Invisible Super Being. I will resist this sort of love every time. Not keen on the other 3 types of love the bible encourages you to force on others either.
I don't care if you think Catholics are not Christians - but as they are not and presumable all the off shoots that do not believe the exact same dogma you believe are not either - this must surely be the least-subscribed-to religion in the world - just the 3 of you. Why would anyone choose a religion with only 3 members?
And no - I decided your religion was nonsense long before I read anything by Dawkins or Plato. You forget - I was church edumacated.
You guys just watch that one world government push that one world religion right on into your life. It's not too far. Just look it up.
I'll be long gone..
t in end better sense would prevail and all religion would become extinct...religion and religious god had their role but as humans evolve , religion wont be able to stand in changing times..it would perish or change...and to change religion has to change its core principals which would be hard to do ...any ways extinction of religion is not new to human beings...it keeps on happening...old religions die , new religion,new godman or god enter the scene and then they become extinct and new one comes and so on...
buddhism still has chance to survive for another 1k years since it is compatible with science...others would find it difficult...
You should look around. They are going to want you to worship the sun.. As in that big ball of burning hydrogen in space. That's what all the powers of the world want you to worship..
If you don't see it. Your not looking.
son or sun are one and same thing man...it doesnot make any difference...in end whether it is jesus or muhammad or sai or sun...it is human faith and faith works since it feels human brain with conviction to act...deity has never been important in human history and never would be...it is mere phase when x diety become important than y and so on...in end god doesnot matter , followers do and fortunately followers are soon realizing that it is they who matter and so religion inclination is declining...yes god would still exist since those who reject religion and its book still believe in some power ...agnostic would be future ...
No. They are not the same thing. Your metaphor does not apply to everything. This is not poetry.
Your ideas are just that. YOUR ideas. Don't start telling me what I believe in or what it is.
I don't need your help or your baseless definitions where 'everything = everything' ...
The letters u and o are NOT the same. Nor do the words Son or Sun have anything in common.
I call my child my "SON".
I call the burning ball of gas in space the "SUN".
Exactly atleast SUN is greater than son ...SUN is globally accepted entity without which world cannot exist...there is consensus on that and would always be...better to worship something which is proven than something which has not been proven...
Coming to your statement
Your ideas are just that. YOUR ideas. Don't start telling me what I believe in or what it is.
exactly and that applies to you too and all your brothers preaching others out here....keep your ideas to yourself and dont consider yourself as truth seller...consider yourself as your opinion seller and in same way everyone has right to express his/her opinion...
You just contradicted your first statement.
No more posts for me. I don't do circles.
when did i contradict...i said whether it is sun or son or sai or any...in end they are same...not is physicalities but in poisition they have in follower's faith...so in end they are mere object of faith...and faith is important out here nor diety...i stand by it...
on proven terms , sun is reason that world exist and so it is far greater than any of humans (son/god man/god) ever born....since god being unproven entity...
it is strange since you can believe in biggest paradox and contradiction and fail to reply to my post...never mind it is your opinion and you reserve right to have one...jesus had opinion , buddha had opinion , obama had opinion ...every one has opinion , nothing wrong in having one...happy preaching but remember it is YOUR OPINION and not truth which you preach...I have opinion and I may be wrong in it and so can you too be wrong...
even atheists are indoctrinated. They did not invent these ideas, they adopted them. They read books and said, "oh yeah that makes sense" and they grafted these concepts into their way of thinking, perhaps they even became brainwashed by plato or euclides or Stephen Hawking.
do i see a parallel here.... oh yes.
"even atheists are indoctrinated". Umm, the leper tries to convince another man they are blemishes on his skin. Yet crucially you don't deny you are a lepur................Well, you seem to imply you are "indoctrinated".
I'm free of your leprocy...........And Plato liked God, he probably had a hand in inventing him
nope, I've never read any of those
Indoctrination requires acceptance of what someone says without challenging it or subjecting it to critical thinking.
I hear the same cliches for believing ad nauseum
Nice to know you never did any research. Bailey you always have your nose in a book or a video and are always pointing to what other people do and literarychimp in order to say plato liked God you had to have read it. Not influenced?
Nice try though, i realize you are in the business of misinformation and need to perpetuate this line of thought as anything else would be detrimental to your current position of apostasy.
Do you not comprehend the written word? Bailey plainly stated that indoctrination requires acceptance of what someone says WITHOUT CHALLENGING IT OR SUBJECTING IT TO CRITICAL THINKING.
How like an apologist to drop the qualifying phrases that determine critical meaning in order to falsify the account.
Of course we are all influenced by what we learn and what others tell us - but some of us look deeply into the claims and make a judgment based on critical thinking, reason, and logic.
I fear that you have simply escaped from one delusion (I am a miserable sinner) into an equally fanciful delusion (I am a saved soul) without ever subjecting the beliefs being taught to you with anything but the judment of how good this belief made you feel, a totally subjective experience devoid of any real substance.
Religious feelings are like opium - the opium of the masses. And you are well and truly hooked.
"I fear that you have simply escaped from one delusion (I am a miserable sinner) into an equally fanciful delusion (I am a saved soul)..."
Are you smoking opium?
You can't be a saved soul without being a sinner..
Miserable or Happy - that's just an added adjective.. something to make it sound better..
If one isn't a sinner, please explain the need for being saved? They are the same and without distinction - hand in hand.
Sure.. Following Christ and suffering persecution from the likes of you is akin to the numbness of opium. This only makes sense as I've already stated if your smoking opium.
I've spent 20 years looking into the truth of my Christ Jesus and my God, and you think that I'm just dancing in some little Christian parade where they give out free lollipops or something? No, that's the atheists who believe the world is about fun and dancing and stuffing your face with candy.
You must think your the mind reader of the world who tells everyone what they've looked into and what they know. Your delusion is thinking your brain contains all the universe's knowledge.
I guess you've never wondered why it's so hard to convince us of anything.. I've done my searching, whereas you stopped and decided you know everything...
(You can't be a saved soul without being a sinner..)
Exactly! Thank you for providing evidence to validate my point of delusion replacing delusion.
I do know the answer of this question so I don't have to ask - Christians presume everyone on earth is a sinner and thus will not enter heaven unless saved.
Rather than accept the delusional reason for this quandry as due to an invisible superbeing who established a concrete set of rules for morality, the reasoning person understands the fact that everyone has the same flaws only means that everyone shares the common trait of humanity, which makes us all equals.
Just as the wasp has no need to apologize to anyone for stinging, neither do I need to apologize to an imaginary creation because of normal, human behavior.
Son of Sam claimed the neighbor's dog told him how to act; Christians claim an invisible superbeing creature tells them how to act.
However, we can see the dog and we have evidence that the dog can at least make vocal noises, while the invisible superbeing cannot be seen or heard and is only asserted with no evidence at alll, to be, yet we all agree that the Son of Sam was delusional but you are saying Christians are simply correct?
Sorry, but the claim of the Son of Sam makes more sense.
Go listen to the neighbor's dog then.. No one is forcing you to do anything.
You don't have to know God for me to. Use that sense of yours. Don't forget though, it isn't yours any more once you die.
You can listen to dogs all you want. Especially because they make vocal noises..
Like every other creation of God..
Someone can read a book without getting "influenced". I'm a philosophy major, of course I read him. Was i "influenced"? Not really. Come on now.
And anyway, there is a difference between influence and indoctrination. Do you not think there is any difference between influence and indoctrination! So if you said "my mother influenced me" you would consider that identical to saying "my mother indoctrinated me". Eerrr!!
Yeah. I'm well aware at where your philosophy gets you.
Just had one of you get mixed up in his own words the other day.
I think I'll keep from wasting my time and learn from his mistake.
Yeah.....Education is a terrible thing...........especially when you believe in things that can't withstand scrutiny...............deary me!!!!
I can totally see this happening. The internet is the new religion. Now you can go to Google to ask for answers instead of whatever higher power you believe in.
As per the original post, I don't really care if religion (as religions are defined anyway, by most people) DOES become extinct. Because Faith in Christ will never become extinct.
I read about this a few days ago on CNN. It says organized religion will become extinct in 9 countries by 2050. I am not really surprised by those predictions. I observed this happening now.
There are what? About 185 - 190 nations on this planet?
Christianity loses 9 in the next 35 or so yrs?
I'd like someone to give me some really logical reasons to think mankind will make it the next 100 yrs.
I sure as hell can't visualize it.
(I'd like someone to give me some really logical reasons to think mankind will make it the next 100 yrs)
Because it is god's will. There, feel better now?
let me read my comment again.....
Ah yes. I asked for a "really logical" reason.
Now let me see, lets begin with god?
What the heck is that?
Once ya can define "it" for me (I didn't ask for proof...that'd be next) in a form other than "opinion," I might consider your comment as being credible enuf to discuss it with you.
Until then I can only consider your response as an attempt to make a joke.
You need a scripture son... You can't just go happy-diddly posting God said this and that..
The Bible little buddy. I know, I know.. You don't like all the words.
It'll pay off though. I promise..
"I read about this a few days ago on CNN. It says organized religion will become extinct in 9 countries by 2050. I am not really surprised by those predictions. I observed this happening now."
They'll need to exterminate me first.
Christ Jesus will not die out.. Careful what you say...
During an interview with an American magazine, John Lennon said, “Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue that. I am certain. Jesus was okay, but his subjects were too simple. Today, we are more famous than Him. (1966)
Worked out huh?
Yeah, how'd that work out for Lennon? And for all the atheists! Humans come and go, but Jesus remains the same yesterday, today, and forever! Amen.
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