Is it wrong for God to allow bad things to happen?

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cat on a soapboxposted 12 years ago
It really gets me riled when people doubt or dismiss God because He allows bad things to happen. His goodness comes in His forgiveness. He gives us bad situations to test our faith. It's normal to get angry at times and struggle over reasons why things happen, but try to look at the bigger picture. If God is nudging you because you've gotten too complacent, and youve been ignoring your relationship with Him, He may resort to something that will really wake you up! Don't expect Him to answer your prayers if you don't have ears for Him too.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  is the test to prove to god that you still love him? (he should already know this) or is it a test to reaffirm the fact that he is god and in chance of every thing you do?( christians already claim this)...I don't understand the reason for the test. That is like taking a test that you are the author of and already know the answer, so that you can prove your knowledge on the subject to yourself.
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  SirDentposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Tests are not always given so the teacher knwos where you are. They are sometimes given to show you where you are.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't that pretty much what I said?
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  canadawest99posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I will make sure I tell that to the thousands of babies that die every day or the ones that have birth defects and disabilities.
  
  You know for a creature thats been around forever you think he could spend 60 seconds of his time to pop back in here on earth, make himself known to everyone, not just religious leaders, and the world would be fixed in a heartbeat.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ??? What I posted is somehow related to your response???
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  canadawest99posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, related to first post.
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No worries...
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  They didnt believe Him the first time,what makes you think a 2nd visit would be any different?
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yep lets not ask Gods forgiveness ,lets just blame Him when mankind screws up, and disease surrounds us.
  
  Dont cry oh what about all those poor babies,or the girl that was raped by some sicko...lets blame God for letting it happen.
  
  Gosh we sound like spoiled lil brats.
  
  Don't wanna do what Our Heavenly father commanded ,just whine about it when it all turns too custard!
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  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your argument smacks of showing prayer as being childish and selfish.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  can you elaborate on this
  i fail to see the connection.
  
  all i can think to connect this is that YOUR prayers were selfish and since you are not able to digest the meat (more difficult aspects of God) that your prayers were on a childs level. Often i find non christians judge christians by the thing that the non christian does. A person cannot judge another by their actions, each person is different, having diverse weaknesses and strengths, some in this area and some in that. But to say that prayers are chldish and selfish smacks of judging another by your own actions.
  
  darn i put that buzzer away
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  Woman Of Courageposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  kiwi, You hit the nail on the mark.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ty
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe its why Jesus called out on the cross:
  
  "Forgive them father ,for they know NOT ,what they do"
  
  I agree with you ,it is very trying indeed!
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is that the same reason he cried "why have you forsaken me!"?
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  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Despicable behavior. Despots do the same thing, they seriously maim or kill someone in their organization to make an example, to be sure that fear is consistently maintained over everyone else.
  
  A god worthy of praise and glory would not practice such repulsive acts of petty selfishness, and instead of creating bad things to happen to people, he would protect them.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  interesting.
  A God ruling a world where there is no sin because he 'blesses' everyone with ideal circumstances.
  Sounds like heaven or the 1000yr reign of Christ on earth or the Garden.
  
  This does not sound like a father, child relationship. How many times have we seen some rich sheltered kid acting like a spoiled bratt, Paris hilton for one example. Are the rich, prosperous? or are their lives full of misery, lets check the magazine rack shall we? How is God supposed to create perfect worlds for everybody since we are all so different.
  You covet your independance from God. You relish the very idea that you are free to do what you want. If God blessed you everyday, would you be doing what you want? or would you be some sort of elaborate puppet.
  
  You need to think more fully on what you are trying to convince us is correct. I think your idea leads to some invisible slavery, a lazy attitude and stems from the attitude, "the world owes me....".
  Indeed the things worth having, are worth working for.
  to gain appreciation for a dollar, one must first earn the dollar.
  
  sound of the buzzer
  
  Yet a God who gives you entrance into his world when you did not deserve it and helps you along the way to become stronger and co-creates a new being out of you, i think, is worthy of all praise.
  If many were just blessed into the kingdom and all things were rosey, many would be hiring teens for sex in a week.
  
  As to protection. Yes christians are protected. God protects his people. In your scenario, protection is not needed because "everything is beautiful" (sing the song people). But, i have said it before and i will say it again, when Gods people walked out of egypt, who was hurting? Not Gods people. Egypt was decimated!
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Yes christians are protected"
  Yes, all christians live upto 100yrs without any problems, and there never was any birth defect or infant mortality in christian families!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So you found a specific area that i did not expound about. Nice digging. Look up protection in the dictionary. Protection does not prevent incidents from happening but helps a person during the incident.
  I am not going to let you pick and choose scenarios for your own pleasure.
  Whatever personal problem lead you to post that is between you and God or whatever you worship. If the God of the bible isn't good enough for you then lean to your own gods and see if they can do better in protecting you.
  Of course what you said is malarkey but Gods protection and his love is available in both cases.
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  jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Whatever personal problem lead you to post that is between you and God"
  How I can have personal problems with non-existent concepts?
  
  "whatever you worship"
  Sorry, my brain is still working, so I have no need to worship!
  
  "ean to your own gods"
  Oh! I can make gods on the go...that is convenient!
  
  "Gods protection and his love"
  Yup! just like my Doberman protects me!!
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  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's not what I said, is it. I am talking about a god that simply protects people from disasters, for example. Rather than a quarter million people die from a tsunami, for example, he could have stopped that. But, he didn't.
  
  Your bible and how it describes your god and his followers is also not a father child relationship, either. So what?
  
  You are free to view the world through a media glazed supermarket magazine, if you wish. Utterly hilarious, if you do.
  
  No one said anything about creating perfect worlds, those are your words and they have nothing to do with what I said.
  
  No one is asking for your gods blessing every day, again, those are your words and have nothing to do with what I said.
  
  No, you need to read my post to see what it is I said, exactly and stop putting words in my mouth, instead.
  
  What you said is your idea, not mine.
  
  Childish and immature responses appears to be your most consistent behavior.
  
  Again, that is what you would do based on your own ideas as you have replaced my words with your own.
  
  No, that is YOUR scenario based on not reading my post and substituting your own words. How very dishonest and despicable behavior.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  oh i see beely, "bad things" is supposed to read 'natural disasters'. Sorry reading beyond your lack of description, intended meaning and thorough wording of what you wanted to say is difficult. Next time include a legend of what means what so that your inability to define clearly what you are talking about, shines like a bright light on a dark day.
  
  Its both alarming and comforting to know that the more accurate my posts about Gods ways the louder you roar.
  
  God luck with further struggles to comprehend and post clearly in the future.
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  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So, after adding your own words and ideas and replacing them with my own, you know call me an angry baby. Despicable behavior.
  
  Unbelievable. How utterly dishonest.
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We live in a world where sh*t happens. God expects you to make the best of it and take responsibility for your decisions.
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  kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God is the light within the darkness...
  So then if by the light youareable to see the works of darkness,
  Why curse it.....will not darkness be darkness...
  
  Rather if you by the light is able to see darkness why not instead, look to find theway of Life within the darkness....
  
  In so Doing you would recognise yourselves as sons of God who is Light within the darkness for a while...
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If this was actually the case, then darkness wouldn't exist.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why do I always miss the obvious ones?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know.
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  kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are quite correct... for darkness our perception of non existence.
  
  Otherwise the reality of knowing all things could not be.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're too funny.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Shit happens" is a much better explanation.
  
  Come to think of it, it answers EVERYTHING. Hell, thats even better than the bible.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When is He gonna forgive the starving children?
  
  Why? Is your God suffering from low self esteem, insecurity, dementia or something? Did He forget that He is omniscient, and does not require tests? Duh!
  
  So that's it...the starving children have been ignoring their relationship with God, and they have become complacent...now God has resorted to something to wake them up. Unfortunately the poor children just end up dead. What a lesson!!! Your God is awesome...NO!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not quite rite.
  How much easier it is for a poor person to enter the kingdom of God than the rich.
  It is often times of difficulty that people look up. Since we believe we live in a world where sh*t happens, then starving people are part of the sh*t happening. Let us also recall that God said, "on the 7th year you shall let your land go fallow". today we see this as being an excellent to way to keep the soil rich and fertile. So when this principle of God is broken, the people wonder why there are starving and 'why isnt God doing something about this?'. In africa, it has been proven that the needs of the army come first before the countries population. So if the food needs of the army are draining food resources from land that has not been allowed to fallow.. armies can eat a lot of food and they are costly too. So if all the resources are being used by the army... is it a wonder the people are going hungry.
  Gods solution... kill the armies... um no that would get earnest madder than a hornet up a hairy nose.... lets see.. cause miraculously some oasis of fruit bearing trees! or just get in there and make that soil fertile inspite of your own instructions.. which just might lead to better fed armies and it is not guarantee that the starving will be fed.... flood the world.. oops the rainbow thing.....change the starving into obese people and hope that the food supply problem is solved by the time they get skinny again.... or how about this abstract thought.. all those who use voodoo to bring prosperity or worship Gaea (mother earth) and the sprites of the forest and of the air, why doesn't God just bless those people and make them prosperous... then how is He gonna bring them to the truth when he has actually endorsed a lie. I think God has to rather work around them showing (allowing) that their Gods do not work.. then when they are on track God will bless their lands... but that would p*ss off the atheist because the atheist mission is to stop the preaching of God and in this scenario, these people have no hope at all because
  atheist dunnit.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This explanation is completely absurd.
  
  Why don't you just accept the fact that your nonsensical God does not exist? Then you wouldn't have to construct these ridiculously, deceptive, insane "explanations"
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So where is the flaw? If you are going to diss something at least provide some reasonable points of argument. I would say that your response is deceptive and some other descriptive words.
  Feel free to construct something valuable.
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  dingdondingdonposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There is no "atheist mission".
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  lol
  
  I don't intend to say that there are absolutes here, not ALL atheists are on a mission but SOME are and they have openly stated their missions intents.
  But you had to be there.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is because of scheme of life and because man has been given free will, freedom of choice, freedom of religion; it is cost of it.
  
  Man is free to do good things for which he would rewardes and if he does bad things he would fail to receive rewards that is his punishment.
  
  [2:156] And We will try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives, and fruits; but give glad tidings to the patient,
  [2:157] Who, when a misfortune overtakes them, say, ‘Surely, to Allah we belong and to Him shall we return.’
  [2:158] It is these on whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy, and it is these who are rightly guided.
  http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=155
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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knolyourselfposted 12 years ago
If I was god I wouldn't want to be responsible for such as all the destruction that nature may cause to human conditions. I would let the physical world be on its own.
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Cagsilposted 12 years ago
What god?
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The omni-everything one that loves everyone and just kills them for their own good of course!
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and others. Make sure your boat floats!
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  galleryofgraceposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The one that allows you to make a choice- and catches you when you screw up!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Refer to yourself. It's better that way. Therefore, you don't get yourself into a mess of trouble otherwise.
  
  Your god applies to you and only you, regardless of what you think.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and what does your god do for you cagsil?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Brother, now that is one of the most foolish questions I've ever seen asked on these forums.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So ya don't got one eh
  thats odd, i thought your god was you.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ironically, I don't consider myself a god. But, with respect to my life and my ability to control my life, then in your line of thinking, I would be a god.
  
  It's your perception of a god that is skewed, but nothing of a surprise.
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just_curiousposted 12 years ago
I think your OP is interesting. I used to do a lot of driving during the day and there were a couple of programs on Christian radio I tried not to miss. One was an old preacher that was doing a Bible study. He had no insights, but his commentary was usually funny, in an old preacher man way.

He was talking one day about all the years he had preached the exact same thing you're saying. God let's bad things happen to test your faith, chastise you for waywardness or sin, etc. But he said when he battled cancer it finally got through to him that this was foolishness. He said he realized God had nothing to do with that. It was just life, and he hated the fact that he had ever told people there was a reason for suffering that originated beyond this earth.

I was not only impressed that he could come to see that, but was honest enough to share it publically.
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paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
Bad things do happen as the Creator-God has given us a free will or free choice.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Natural disasters have nothing to do with free will.
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ewd76posted 12 years ago
Nothing God does is wrong. If we think it's wrong we missed something.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Right right. Flooding the planet in order to kill everyone on it including children babies and all the animals is not wrong.
  
  Maybe you missed something that resulted in you believing such a being actually exists?
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  In other words God is horrible, but you are so afraid of Him that you agree with everything He does, cause God can do bad, nasty things to us.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thats not what edw76 said at all.
  Christians don't judge God so i am going to say it this way.
  You judge God too have done bad things and to cause fear in his people.
  There are examples of Gods punishment in the OT.
  We are under the NT now. Its all different. YOU seem to forget that or you don't understand it, perhaps never knew it. that's a shame either way.
  What has been done in the past, is part of Gods character, BUT what we are seeing now is also part of Gods character. God has always blessed what pleases him and cursed what has displeased him.
  The first covenant was of the flesh and so according to the flesh, the law revealed a need for immediate justice, like in a court room... the judge never says, your sentence will commence, 6 weeks from now or next year... judgments in court are immediate. The judgments that the law necessitated were also immediate. 3 were punishable by death, working on a sabbath, adultery and murder, the other 610 were up to the judge to decide.
  But in this time with Gods dispensation of His Spirit, we see the fullness of Gods Grace abounding! God has let man do his own thing and God will check the hearts of people and (this is Gods job) drag them to the realization of His Son Jesus. Grace, in spite of God killing mostly heathen nations so that His people could occupy the land. (at that time land was owned by the biggest and strongest through warfare. In our times, borders are set and nations are firmly in possession of their lands and the U.N. governs over all.)
  God can do horrible things to us but He doesn't, he chastises his people and he lets others live their own lives until their hearts are turned toward Him, this happens through conflict even persecution but i think frustration is his favorite tool, yes some bad things... the bad things in my life have taught me good things. God has taught me good things. Changed me from faith to faith, helped me walk the Jacobs ladder of godliness.
  Ones perceptions of a wrong path is accommodated by their inclusion or exclusion in a right path.
  We cannot judge God. Often something bad has happened only to have something wonderful evolve from that bad thing. Good things happen that lead to bad things, good things happen that lead to good things, bad things happen that lead to badder things.
  but all things work for good to those who love God.
  just sayin
  whew.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes he did. I just put it in the right context for him.
  
  What difference does it make? Your God is only a figment of ancient goat herder's imaginations.
  
  I guess those poor starving children are just displeasing God, so He curses them. Your reasoning is absurd.
  
  Not correct.
  
  Yeah, working on the Sabbath should be punishable by death. That makes perfect sense. Your God is awesome.
  
  This explanation was almost unbearable to read. This is clearly a delusional rant, lacking any substance whatsoever.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Don't confuse your inability to understand as someone elses incorrectness. The fact that you did not ponder the post shows a bias even before the end of the sentence.
  You make is sound like not working on the sabbath is impossible. In fact it is a very easy thing to do and quite beneficial to health. You need to look beyond your own prejudices and slow down a bit, your anger makes you hasty. For a person to not work, i am assuming you know what work is defined as. And if i love gardening is that really work? Sabbath under christ has become a day that christians do things they enjoy and just spend time communing with their God.
  Really you get hung up on very minor issues. And for some reason you want christians to be accountable to the OT rules and this is not how christianity is supposed to be.
  Perhaps you failed because you made your walk to "be under the law" instead of "under grace". and because you failed to sort it all out and just be thankful, you adhered yourself to a bunch of rules and just as they did, you failed to uphold the law. So you had a religion and not the spiritual walk that is in christ.
  Try it again and don't be so hard on yourself this time. Let patience work its perfect work and the holy spirit guide you.
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  manlypoetrymanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  !!! Well Stated !
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not in the real world. However in your world of talking snakes and pregnant virgins, and other childish nonsense, YES it makes much sense. Again I have to refer to Psych 101.
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  manlypoetrymanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hope you find all you need to know in Psych 101 then...about the real world. Of course...I would much rather learn from man in the short time he has existed on this rock...and all that man knows...(but for some reason...can never seem to perfect HHmmm?)...then a "Father God". 'Cause God knows we iz da' smartest humans around!
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Do you believe that it would be perfectly ok for me to murder my son if I heard the voice of God telling me to offer him as a sacrifice? Would you say I was a great man of God, or that I was criminally insane?
  
  Seems that there is something gravely wrong with the thinking of believers...speaking from a psychological perspective.
  
  Before you discount psychology, think about your sick beliefs.
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  manlypoetrymanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok...per your instructions...I thought of my own "sick" beliefs........................................................................... And now moving on to the rest of your comment:
  
  The story point you use as a whole justification for a point you are making (I think?) is a symbolic lesson in a father giving up his son's life. And No...it ain't right to murder...anyone! Let me make that clear...again...Do not murder anyone! So...if you were about to based on this story. Please don't do it! Glad we got that out of the way...Wheeew!
  
  I find it particularly interesting...No...dare I say...repugnantly disgusting...that all these great thinking "scientific fact dictators" spend all their time on a neutral web forum site...denouncing believes from the Bible.
  
  Do you see Christians going on Science Forums or Devil Forums...and spending all day refuting a topic...that comes to their mind...and then other Christians jumping on the bandwagon to join in...and tell the people reading there: How stupid they are?
  
  No!
  
  Yet...look at this Forum. Then...what really cracks me up is they always give us a "command" like: "think about your own beliefs" for us to do. That's funny...since most of the criticism that Christians get on the internet is that we are always preaching and telling folks what to do...Really ironic...in a strange sort of way. Don't you think?
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are simply typical. How predictable. It is always symbolic or metaphorical if it makes your God look like a completely disturbed, psychotic, psychopath.
  
  This is the perfect mind-set for willful ignorance.
  
  Of course you are not happy that your nonsensical beliefs are being challenged. I'm actually happy that people are standing up to this garbage.
  
  However, everyday of my life, I have had someone referring to their God in some way, right in public...or telling me that I should give credit for MY accomplishments to their imaginary being, or asking me to say a stupid prayer over my meal.
  
  We put up with this insanity everyday! You are rarely, if ever, subjected to these insults from the other side, because we have no belief in imaginary characters.
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  manlypoetrymanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your disscussion points are equally typical. Way to draw on the "real" world and bring it into a point I made about a nuetral internet forum. Clearly, the only truth you would or could understand is one that you fabricate!
  
  Just another anti-religion, anti-god, anti-religion rant...with all the same themes. Have fun with your delusional thinking...as well! Toodles!
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Getitrite, I strongly disagree!
  
  I have to go with the crazy person.
  
  His story has a ring of truth to it. We have an eclectus parrot, and Eric is def a candidate for the anti-christ.
  Also the Sonny Bono story sound a lot more credible.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree. You need to exorcise that parrot.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But you are not the son of God and no one is asking you to kill anyone,so your question is a hypothectical one.
  
  Most people judge God according to mans conscience,but God is not a man ,He is Spirt all wise and all knowing.
  
  Like an Ant ,is man, trying to fathom how a Giant moves ,lives and thinks
  
  Perspective.
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  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  At least the ant can see man moving around. Where is your god that we can see moving around?
  
  Yeah, perspective.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The ant sees mans shadow
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is based on the same nonsensical premise as the event involving Abraham and his son. Stop playing games.
  
  Based upon what? You have no knowledge of anything you have spouted...just regurged indoctrinated nonsense.
  
  This statement is very narrow...devoid of any real critical thinking. Of course that is what your leaders want.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  getitrite I suggest you have gotitwrong
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Doesn't phycology always teach that man only uses a small part of his brain?
  
  That being acknowledged ,then it stands to reason that there is much you and I don't know.
  
  And if we don't know everything perhaps we should think twice before throwing stones!
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  Beelzedadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, that is a myth.
  
  Says the kettle to the pot?
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Seems to me that the only thing I need to understand, pertaining to your beliefs, was covered in Psych 101 &102
  
  I, suffered through every word of your post, looking for something that made any sense in the 'real' world.
  
  I'm not angry at you, brother. But this psychosis that has destroyed the critical thinking in fearful believers, must be challenged...sorry you are one of its victims.
  
  Sure.
  
  Then I'm sure you will have another bizarre explanation for this verse quoted by Jesus himself in Matthew 5:17:
  
  "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. {NLT}
  
  I refer back to Psych 101 on this one. Any time someone tells me to let myself be guided by a concept of the imagination of long dead goat herders, it can only be a form of delusion.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes God uses uneducated people.
  Lets use a real bible translation... kjv
  Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
  the word fulfill means complete.
  Deep bible studiers realize that the whole OT speaks of a messiah. Jesus was that messiah. Direct passages point to the events of the crucifixion, etc. By christs coming he fulfilled the OT prophecies concerning Himself. The next verses speak of an intensifying of the law....
  thou shalt not murder
  thou shalt not even be angry
  He did not come that "grace may abound and people may sin" he came to elevate the playing field from what had become superficial and hypocritical obedience to a set of rules, too inward truthful obedience to conscience; imbued by the Spirit of God. Matthew 5:17 does not mean we have to partake in the all festivals and rituals of the OT, of course sacrifice would be an impossibility these days.
  Christ came to complete the prophecies, end the OT dispensation and bring about what Joel spoke of: "the indwelling of an holy spirit".
  
  Its kinda hard to get bizarre explanations for the NT since the lack of allegories, etc.. and the language is not so old as to be so remote from our unhebrewic understanding.
  I recall a young girl said to me something that was very wise but i don't listen to young girls. (sarcasm) The fact you disdain that the weak and dumb and poor in spirit are used of God (goat herders) leads me to not appreciate your acceptance of people. It seems that they must have a certain level of IQ. IF you were Balaam you would never have listened to your donkey huh.
  
  I also have to wonder if you missed the detail that the bible is not just a good read but a study material. There is much study and prayerful dependency on God to reveal HIs word. Since you like to use the word critical i will define this word thusly: inclined to find fault or to judge with severity, often too readily. (straight from the dictionary) The word of God is dealt with by those who want the truth. Some take a few lines and make a doctrine out of it but this is wrong practice and leads to untruths. Examination, scrutiny and fear of making a mistake are paramount in a believers journey through the 'washing of the water of the word". So to say that we do not critically think about the bible is a little off base. We do not criticize the word but we embrace it and digest it and love it.
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  getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But if it wasn't, you and other followers would be right out there needlessly murdering animals, and possibly humans, for God.
  
  How noble of you.
  
  Why would your God not see IQ as a factor in those people that He dispatches to deliver His PERFECT message? It seems that God is behaving just like a fool.
  
  Listening to talking beasts is a clear indication of psychosis, hence the answer is no. Consult Psych 101.
  
  Yep. Totally missed that. Good read ?? Study material??
  
  And that, my brother, is your problem. You have abdicated your mind if the only thing you desire is to believe everything that is written in a certain text. It is the definition of blind faith...and abject willful ignorance. Very dangerous indeed.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  oh well
  have a nice day
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  Sara Tposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "We are in the NT now," you say. A decision on God's part to change His ways would indicate that He was wrong in the first place. Yet he is supposedly infallible. How does this make sense?
  
  The change in God's behavior in the story is due to different authors taking creative liberties - writing their story in the way they thought would best influence the population. It's a fable meant to teach laws and morals. Real-life counterparts for some of the people depicted may have existed, but the only "proof" that any mystical event in the Bible actually happened is found in the Bible itself. This makes it ineligible as proof. Yes, I know followers of the Bible are all about faith and not needing proof, but by that same notion I could start a following based on any other book that describes mystical events and life lessons, so long as I knew very little about the life and times of the author.
  
  And so, in conclusion: nothing is a test. Children in Africa starve because there's no rain! Not because God is testing their people. Japan's been devastated because the planet is made up of tectonic plates that move! It doesn't matter that they are a great nation and they don't even riot or steal when disaster strikes like other countries would. Natural disasters would happen whether people were on this planet or not. And when a thief breaks into a house and ends up killing the old woman who wakes up, that isn't a test from God. It's an example of one person being heartless and cruel.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "We are in the NT now," you say. A decision on God's part to change His ways would indicate that He was wrong in the first place. Yet he is supposedly infallible. How does this make sense?
  
  God has not changed neither was he wrong. God dealt with the hebrew nation. In the course of events they shaped the dispensation that is called the OT. They wanted rules, (mt sinai) God gave them rules. (mosaic [moses] covenant, pentateuch) They wanted a man to rule over them.(book of kings) God gave them that. There was even a time when they wanted no one to rule over them. (book of judges). They continued to sin and God said "enough". God sent his Son as the supreme gesture of love for people. people. The OT did not fail. One example is that it still teaches us today and many were redeemed among the nations and counted worthy of eternal life from that OT. The same today, some obtain eternal life and some do not. There is no failure. The failure is seen only through human eyes.
  Now God deals with all people, not just one nation but everyone everywhere. Now the explanation gets huge but i will forgo.
  
  The change in God's behavior in the story is due to different authors taking creative liberties..... I know followers of the Bible are all about faith and not needing proof, but by that same notion I could start a following based on any other book that describes mystical events and life lessons, so long as I knew very little about the life and times of the author.
  
  If you think so, then good for you. I would personally, as i do, line up any other belief or mysticism with the bible, any contradiction of the bible and i would throw away the other belief. This is exactly why many are lead astray, because they are not steadfastly in the word of God. We know the errors because God left us a quick resource, a good study and a very helpful aid to determine what is true and untrue. The people you would take away with your book would be the weak and sickly among us, not the strong and faithful. As for the rest of that paragraph i cut it out because i did not want to spend the time commenting on it. No offense intended.
  
  And so, in conclusion: nothing is a test. Children in Africa starve because there's no rain! Not because God is testing their people. Japan's been devastated because the planet is made up of tectonic plates that move! It doesn't matter that they are a great nation and they don't even riot or steal when disaster strikes like other countries would. Natural disasters would happen whether people were on this planet or not. And when a thief breaks into a house and ends up killing the old woman who wakes up, that isn't a test from God. It's an example of one person being heartless and cruel.
  
  I did not purport test as a cover all the bases answer to everything. Where there are ungodly people there is no test of faith because their is no faith to test. I believe in God and he tests my faith but for God to test the faith of people who don't believe in him is a ridiculous statement. Gods blessings may or may not be in those nations, recall that the rain falls upon the godly and ungodly and the sun warms all people. But yes God has used natural disasters (plagues of egypt, famine etc) for Gods reasons. Reasons that we are unable to guess.
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  Sara Tposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "No offense intended."
  
  None taken! In a thread of this type I fully expect some of my points to be ignored rather than considered. I hope you take only slight offense to my saying that the brand of logic used in your reply is nearly enough to make a person's head explode...
  
  That being said, I hope you understand it is hard for me to follow the majority of your statements. I assume it all made sense in your head, but I'm afraid that any line of reasoning has been lost in translation from thought to text. From what I can make out, though, it seems you are calling those who do not follow the Bible "weak and sickly". Well, I would counter that "strong and faithful" is an oxymoron. It takes true strength to find one's own way in this world and accept full accountability for one's life and choices. It takes true strength to accept that we just don't know why we are here, rather than let ourselves cling to myths like children cling to their blankets. Do you believe your God is any more real than the Gods of the Greek pantheon? Surely the ancient Greeks believed, with as much fervor and as much evidence as you, that their Gods were real. How can one prove that one God is real and the other is fake? And if you cannot show this to someone else, why do you let *yourself* fall for it?
  
  I believe that faith in something you cannot prove is a mix of stubbornness and denial. That, I suppose, is something you will not consider, no matter the extent to which I explain it. But there it is. And I hold nothing against those who need faith to sustain themselves. I sometimes wish I could help them, because they seem so far removed from the real world. But some seem to get on just fine and only turn to faith in times of desperation, when they cannot accept their own accountability; then others seem to use organized religion mostly as a social network. It's interesting to compare the whole spectrum, from faith to non-faith, with people's mental well-being. I feel quite lucky to be where I am on that spectrum.
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  earnestshubposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I thought your reply was well reasoned and honest.
  
  A useful discussion where statements are supported by evidence would take these discussions forward towards a better understanding for all.
  
  I for one am prepared to change my mind in light of better information than I have now, as that is after all how we learn.
  
  All I ask for to change my beliefs is evidence, (empirical evidence is fine,) to support peoples positions so that they can be substantiated in some way other than sprouting text from bronze age myths and calling that proof simply because they have one of hundreds of interpretations of it. Having studied the bible in Hebrew and Greek I can attest there is much disagreement when it comes to translations to English.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  to earnest and sarah
  
  oh well
  and have a nice day
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manlypoetrymanposted 12 years ago
I don't think any of us have final say...but why does every one rush to blame God for all bad things. Could it possibly have come from a really bad and evil source...such as...let me guess...the Devil!
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Atheists dont blame god. They ask the question if YOU believe in a loving god then why do YOU think he lets bad things happen.
  
  Of course I dont believe god does anything because I dont believe any of them to exist butthat doesnt make the question any less valid.
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  manlypoetrymanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So...does that mean you don't believe in eternal life...either?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Eternal life? Do you even grasp the concept?
  
  Would you want to work a job, the same job for eternity? Always answering to one specific higher authority and unable to make any decisions for yourself and constantly to for the rest of your existence(eternity) that you would do as you are told and not as you choose?
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  Me, Steve Waltersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes...I grasp the concept Cagsil. Thanks for asking. But, I do not hold the same limited amount of belief that things would be better in the future...that you seem to possess.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And, I wasn't talking to you.
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  Me, Steve Waltersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  UUh...yes you were! (Note to self: Sure are getting fiesty lately!)
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, NO I wasn't talking to you. My reply was to someone who isn't you. Therefore, I wasn't talking to you. Got it?
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  Me, Steve Waltersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No...I don't got it. Please use your bold rhetoricals to explain how A. it even matters...and B. How Me, Steve Walters and Manlypoetryman...isn't me. You got that?
  
  What...were you thinking...that I was stupid...the first time you made the suggestion that it wasn't me?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you two the same person? If so, then I apologize and appreciate you clarifying up the situation. Much appreciated.
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  Me, Steve Waltersposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You talking to me...?
  
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Answer the question. Are you the same person?
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  manlypoetrymanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ha...Ha... I couldn't resist a chance at a little humor!
  
  Yes...we are both linked to the same humaniod! (Didn't I just say that?)
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's nice to see you have a warped sense of humor and you're also a credit to your religion. It also shows dishonesty with religion teaching of it's followers, since you're unable to to follow rules of the forum.
  
  Secondly, if you're willing to be deceptive in a forum thread, such as this, then is speaks even greater volumes about you in life itself.
  
  Good day
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  manlypoetrymanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wow Cags...Guess you really told me off. Too bad speaking all inflamitory remarks about any one with opposite thinking from yourself...shows the same thing about yourself!
  
  Too bad...you're so easily offended...but some one on the opposite side of yours...can not be easily offended.
  
  Thirdly...please tell me what rule of the forum I broke by just answering you?
  
  Fourthly...I was never deceptive...at any point. Go back and read for yourself. That is implied...just like a lot of things that you have made up...and expect others to have to think in like manner!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, truth usually hurts. It has nothing to do about ME. I was pointing out your actions. My actions are pointing out what you've done. But, nice try to turn it around on me. Too bad it failed.
  I'm not easily offended and your insinuation that I am, again speak about your lack of knowledge.
  You broke the rule that said you are NOT allowed to use more than ONE account to post to the forums.
  This reply was expected, because you cannot see your own actions as being wrong. How nice of you. It was deceptive to use an alternate account to post to the forum thread. I don't care whether or not you believe it to be true. It's irrelevant what you believe. The TRUTH of the matter is you broke the rule. Enjoy
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  manlypoetrymanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Seems like you are easily offended by the great lengths you go to to prove otherwise.
  
  If I made a mistake with the "Hub Page Forum" guidelines...then I do apologize. Wouldn't want to hurt your feelings!
  
  It was never intended to be deceptive...I assure you.
  
  But wait...how dare I...tell you of great wisdom anything?
  
  It is abundantly clear...that if someone opposes your views...you find it a good opportune to set the record straight!
  
  And that you have already demonstrated that fully...No matter what you may now try to say on your behalf.
  
  Have a good one !
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yet another assumption, based on a lack of knowledge.
  You're not hurting my feelings and couldn't if you tried. I was only pointing out your actions.
  Actually, your actions says otherwise, regardless of what your words are saying.
  Tell me great wisdom? You have no wisdom to share. That is clear.
  Twisting things again to suit yourself I see. Your views actually had nothing to do with it.
  What a joke.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  nice backstep cags.. but really as i have been told, its an open forum, anyone can post. So yes your god has allowed you to be rude
  
  Your narrow and dismal view of eternal life is quite fleshy and so totally out in left field we need the hubble to look at it.
  You create scenarios that you don't like then you purport them as truth and then you try to convince others. No book to guide you. No holy spirit in you... just fleshly ideas and carnal thoughts.
  This is why i never enjoy what you have to say.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why should I belive in eternal life? Haven't you ever seen a graveyard or an excavated skeleton?
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  manlypoetrymanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If that is where you are headed...then Ok. I am not...going to be anywhere around...by the time they lay me in the ground!
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knolyourselfposted 12 years ago
I notice the TV evangelists rush to praise
God for saving the church from the tornado. However they never blame God for the tornado destroying the church. Can't do that can they. For this they need the devil.
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  canadawest99posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Its all a test you know, but we are never told what the test is about, what the questions are going to be, what to study for and how to pass and why we are being tested in the first place, so we always fail.
  
  We are set up to fail no matter what we do right from the garden of eden to now. 6,000 years of failure. if you saw your child fail 1,000,000 times, wouldn't you step in and try to help him, and I mean help directly, not make up some cryptic passages in an old book.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Those cryptic passages are helpful indeed and whats laid out in the new testament is pretty straightforward.
  I have failed a few times but a few times is all i needed.
  when i trained a dog, it failed a few times but then it learned. Some dogs were just to dumb to learn and they needed the most patience of all the dogs.
  Some people are pretty dumb too. Some learn and some don't. But jesus said, 'if a brother fail, pick him up 70x7 or 490 times. This of course is not an exact figure but it does depict how many times we should help minimally.
  God is no different and he is not bound to only 490, he will keep on trying.
  The whole of humanity has not failed. Hebrews 11 mentions the saints of faith who graduated, not failed and throughout history there has been martyrdoms and great men of God, and this trend will continue. They may not make their name on the front page of the paper until they fail. All those that did not fail died in obscurity not even becoming a statistic to anybody, except God.
  God is pleased with the returns he gets in revelations.
  God enjoys helping his people grow and mature in Him.
  He is our mentor. Imagine if your were mentor to somebody.. would you not be hurt when he failed but joyous when he gets it?
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Beelzedadposted 12 years ago
Yes, some people just don't learn. Agreed.
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  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i should think you would agree to that.
  Were you excluding yourself? or including yourself?
  
  TRy to be honest and clear about the answer.
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manlypoetrymanposted 12 years ago
Obviously, you are use to getting the last word on everything. I responded to a statement you made in regards to getting a "grasp". So far, all you've managed to do is "play be the rules" in regards to an insignificant event, pout,whine, and go on and on...trying to make yourself sound impressive

So...after you're through...demonstrating that you barely have a "grasp"...and all you can do is match sentences up line for line against what someone says...to provide some kind of sum'thing...I dun' know...reply. Maybe it is...you can explain yourself...after you get through hiding behind all your Hub Page "Forum" theatrics...and whining...as to why I do not have grasp...(you know...the reply that you made...way back then)...or getting a grasp...or whatever it is that you said that made me want to bother with your endless rhetoric.

Please tell me about how I do not have a grasp on eternity again...try to stick to the point...without running away scared

And try to make the point compelling or interesting enough for someone who believes there is an eternity...to not be bored out of their skull...with the answer...Please!

Later
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manlypoetrymanposted 12 years ago

You bring cartoons to make a point!
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  DoubleScorpionposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Looks like a Stalemate
  reply report

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