Worshipping Jesus, worshiping a false idol

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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
thisisoli wrote:

As to the new testament superseding the old testament.. All Jesus talks about is how you should worship God, not him. He even talks about worshiping false idols; if you worship Jesus rather than God you are automatically worshiping a false idol, committing the worst sin possible.

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/73223?p … ost1594423

Paarsurrey says:

Exactly
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If god is omnipresent , then every human is god including Jesus and thats the message he spread.God is the light permeating everything-Allah, Jevovah, Shiva ec
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  Donna Suthardposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  After having reading The Course in Miracles, I would state mohitmisra, you are correct. Not only that, but the world we live in is merely a dream world we made up! We never left God to begin with! We created this illusion of a world, because we THOUGHT we were separate from God and from each other.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  True thats why the Indians and Japanese termed this world as an illusion.
  Its actually an extension of god, gods thoughts, each is god. Like the Shamans say we co create, our thoughts materialize. Then again its not only an extension but the basic fabric of this universe is god the Light , One.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, we don't worship other humans, we show them respect or else they are idols.
  Though God is in everyone, not every one is in God.
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  Brenda Durhamposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Anyone who reads the Book of John should see that Jesus IS God, which of course debunks your entire theoretical attempt to debunk Jesus's divinity.
  Jesus is no longer just "a man", as some have pictured Him. You fail to see that.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ____________
  The blind can't see and the deaf can't hear.
  He spoke in parables so those not of God would not understand.
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  SEEKER OF TRUTH57posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Would you please state what religious belief you are ?
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  Dave Mathewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  According to who? You don't even know God and Jesus is the "Son of God" One day you will come face to face with God then we will see what you spew out of your vile mouth.
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knolyourselfposted 14 years ago
Could even say if one worships anything that is not in one's present reality, it is idol worship.
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Moses believed:

[4] Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord. [5] Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole strength.
http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=5& … &f=s#x

Jesus believed:

[37] Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. [38]

http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47 … &f=s#x

So worshipping Jesus is worshipping a false idol
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  _____________________
  I agree with you Paarsurrey.
  
  Yahshua never spoke of himself. He spoke the words God gave him
  
  Deuteronomy 18:15
  I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
  
  Yahshua said he was not speaking of himself
  
  John 14:10
  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
  
  But we can't make the blind see.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks and I appreciate.
  
  Regards
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superwagsposted 14 years ago
Aren't you fed up of these threads yet Paar - not rather discuss something a bit more light hearted for once?

Have a beer and chill out.
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knolyourselfposted 14 years ago
"So worshipping Jesus is worshipping a false idol"
I would say the authority for your life, as Jesus or anything else in not yourself. If not yourself who are you?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please elaborate it for me; I don't get you.
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knolyourselfposted 14 years ago
'as Jesus or anything else in not yourself.'
Should be: as Jesus or anything else [is] not yourself. I need an editor. Means that
for myself I decide everything. I don't do as Jesus does. 'Cause then Jesus decides and not me.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You mean Jesus is not your role model?
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just_curiousposted 14 years ago
Paar. I'll be honest with you. If you compare the average Christian to the average Muslim, it appears to me Mohamed is worshiped on a much higher scale. Christians are capable of laughing at jokes about Jesus. They take no offense at his presence in a cartoon. They like to see respect for him, but they put it in perspective. Compare that to the reaction within Islam to any mention, or depiction of your prophet.

Who is worshiped more?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Humans should not be worshipped; Krishna, Buddha, Zoraster, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad etc; all were human beings; none should be worshipped, except the Creator-God.
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  Jefacityposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how about instead we all worship each other?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't get you, please elaborate for me.
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  Jefacityposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  we are each divine and amazing in our own right. The heart of worship and praise is sending positive energy to the target. So by worshiping each other we celebrate and strengthen our divine light.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't agree with you; Buddha never said that every human being is divine.
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  Jefacityposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've read your posts. you believe in a grand creator. Is there anyway even one of his creations could not be divine?
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No creation can be divine.
  
  Divine means without limits. We are all limited.
  
  Yahshua (Jesus) said I can do nothing of myself. He needed God.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well said
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Divine means like god and Jesus said "I tell ye are all gods. "" Children of the most high"
  
  Yahshua (Jesus) said I can do nothing of myself. He needed God- this is true even the enlightened ones are limited and work for God,they are puppets in Gods hands.
  Even the Prophet Muhammad would propheciese but once he didn't say -by the will of god and his prophecy didnt materialize and he later said I should have said by the will of god .
  
  This is why Islam doesn't even equate the prophets with god yet at the same time it says" Unto Allah is your return and he is able to do all things"
  
  Mans home or source is god,Allah, Jevovah ,Brahma and on death he fuses with, becomes God.
  
  "God has become man, man will become God again" Swami Vivekananda.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  _____________
  According to the English dictionary, divine means like God.
  In Hebrew it means without limit.
  But then God is without limits therefore we can not be like God because as long as we are in the flesh, there are limits.
  
  When we were created parts of God emanated down with us. We will return to God because our spirit came from God but God will always be greater than us.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We can only be in image of God; never like him.
  
  [42:12] He is the Maker of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you pairs of your own selves, and of the cattle also He has made pairs. He multiplies you therein. There is nothing whatever like unto Him; and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing.
  
  http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=11
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for sharing the Hebrew meaning.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Beautiful Jefacity
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  Donna Suthardposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  paarsurrey. I agree with you that only God should be worshipped. Jesus states, That God is within all of us. Teachers like Jesus, Yogananada, Krishna, were human like us. They became Master teachers, because they became perfected in their daily lives. They were our brothers. They learned to meditate, after they received Enlightenment, they taught unconditional love. Their message was only Love, Compassion and Peace. We are not to idolize anyone here on this earth. We are find our happiness, and our God within ourselves throught prayer, forgiveness and meditation
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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knolyourselfposted 14 years ago
"You mean Jesus is not your role model?" Nope. I am my own role model. If I only did what I was told, what could I learn? The difference between playing a part in a play, and actually doing the thing in real life.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is it not wrong and depicts ignorance?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is ignorance?
  Bleating about your version of your god by creating endless and mindless threads contributes nothing.
  I see you are still ignoring anything that challenges your beliefs without examining anything that you don't already believe is pretty ignorant I reckon.
  
  You ask for information many times but never read it.
  
  Did you get around to reading Krauss or seeing his videos yet?
  Didn't think so.......
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Doing what you are told is not always only for learning it is for experience.
  I can be told what strawberry icecream is like but until i taste it i will never know.
  experience.
  We are told what to do and how to live but for the reason of experience. Experience is the best teacher.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Funny how you don't use or practice that logic when it comes to religion.
  
  If there were a Baskin Robbins of religions, you would never know the experience of religions because you would never choose any flavor other than Strawberry.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the proof is in the pudding
  after having tried many flavors the best one is always picked
  is it not?
  thankyou for your input
  have a wonderful day
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's the point entirely, you haven't tried all the flavors, hence cannot claim you have chosen "the best one".
  
  You tried "strawberry", now and again tossing some chopped nuts or sprinkles or chocolate coating on top, but you always ate only strawberry.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You keep saying logic, isnt it logical that an intelligent design have an intelligent creator?
  
  I agree with brotheryochanan- you lack the experience which will give you the knowledge.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it is a lot more reasonable than an intelligent design coming into existence from nothing; very un-natural from the atheists.
  
  Further scinece has not proved that the Creator-God does not exist.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure. Why not. We can also speculate that an intelligent design was not necessarily designed from intelligence, but only appears to be. And, we can also speculate that what appears to be designed intelligently was not so intelligent a design after all.
  
  Plenty of alternatives to your question.
  
  That's nice, I'm so glad you both share an agreement. That will help when you begin discussing the rest of your beliefs with each other and find you vehemently don't agree.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  there ya go, real truth, right there!
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We can also speculate that an intelligent design was not necessarily designed from intelligence, but only appears to be.
  
  Appear to be? thats the proof of intelligence.
  
  And, we can also speculate that what appears to be designed intelligently was not so intelligent a design after all.
  
  First we need to know the ingredients before assembling anything. As humans we have no idea what is on our planet forget this cosmos.
  
  The point I am making is please realize even the believer is using logic to come to his conclusions. So you cannot say its illogical and nonsense.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why not read something else, something that may educate you about the "truth" you keep talking about:
  http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, that is usually the evidence of evolution.
  
  That entire piece of your post is illogical and nonsense.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So true great scientists like Albert Einstein who believed in a higher intelligence observing this universe were also illogical.
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  superwagsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We've been through this before and you didn't listen to a word I said. It doesn't matter whether Einstein believed in God or not. Or whteher he was Einstein or not - if he had (which I doubt) have believed in god, then it would still be illogical.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Keep doubting, ignore truth.
  It was illogical for him, thats the point, intelligent design requires ad intelligent creator thats logical.
  
  do you really expect me to listen to you? ha
  http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-ei … eology.htm
  I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being. (Albert Einstein)
  
  I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts. The rest are details. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p.202)
  
  I see a pattern, but my imagination cannot picture the maker of that pattern. I see a clock, but I cannot envision the clockmaker. The human mind is unable to conceive of the four dimensions, so how can it conceive of a God, before whom a thousand years and a thousand dimensions are as one? (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p. 208)
  
  We know nothing about [God, the world] at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. Possibly we shall know a little more than we do now. but the real nature of things, that we shall never know, never. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, Page 208)
  
  In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support for such views. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, p. 214)
  
  So please stop saying Albert Einstein was illogical and didnt understand science while you are very logical and a master of science, this is illogical..
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  superwagsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've said before, and I am backed up by the quotes we have on this, Einstein was what I'd describe as irreligious. He didn't care one way or another about whether god existed or not. This is rather how I view it too; to quote Eric Hoffer:
  
  "The opposite of the religious fanatic is not the fanatical atheist but the gentle cynic who cares not whether there is a god or not."
  
  He had no belief in a personal god - just used the term "god" to describe the unknowable. As many other scientists have done.
  
  I didn't say that Einstein was illogical; just said that had he had a belief in god, this would have been illogical. That's what a religious belief is - even you must see this - a faith step without being able to quantify it. The Babel fish quote from hitchiker's guide!
  
  Ultimately, as I've already said, it doesn't matter a jot whether Einstein was religious or not. I think uncle Al would be utterly depressed that we are een havin this conversation.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Cant you read the last quote, stop being so blind and thick.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is a point to be noted.
  
  The Atheists agnostics skeptics should not use Einstein’s name for their own self promotion; they should find some other sources instead of him.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yet Mohit can bring it up to defend his beliefs.
  Are you without any capacity to reason?
  That makes no sense in any way.
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  superwagsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh god, haven't you read the thread or have you read the thread and decided to be purposefully ignornt?!
  
  It's Mohit throwing his name into the thread. I'd like to defend Einstein's name - he hated being swamped by religionists after invoking the word "god" to describe unknown phenomena.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I thought this was thrashed out on here years ago. I also thought Mohit would have kept up.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Paarsurery as you can see even after quoting him they are unable to understand , its a classic example of fanatical atheist which Einstein talked about.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You and parra should get together, I'd enjoy that!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And don't speak to others through different people it is intolerably rude as well as transparent!
  Neither of us is a "they"
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But then Einstein was fool ,you use his picture for your profile you must be a lot more intelligent and a greater scientist than him, just too shy and modest to put up your own picture and scientific credentials.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Albert was no religionist, nor did he say what you accredited to him, what he did believe is captured here.
  
  "I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature. (Albert Einstein, The World as I See It)
  
  I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms."
  
  (Albert Einstein, Obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955)
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  superwagsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't say he was an atheist either particularly. I just think he had bigger fish to fry than worrying about it!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  One thing I am sure about is that he was hounded by religionists in an attempt to prop up their beliefs as all famous scientists have been.
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  superwagsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's certainly true. I heard Hawking talking about the same thing after his (in)famous "mind of god" line in Brief History of Time.
  
  He was held up as a famous scientist who believed in god, when really he was trying to express the unknown. He admitted it ws a silly mistake, in hindsight.
  
  I don't know why religionists would want to bring up the issue of scientists - arguably the cleverest people in society - and their beliefs. I mean, it's not exactly a strong point from the point of view of selling religion as a thinking person's pasttime!
  
  Ever heard of the "Steve list"?!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No I have never heard of that list, do tell.
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  superwagsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Steve List or Project Steve was set up in response to a list drawn up by the Discovery Institute after they released a list of scientists who questioned evolution. The DI's list was a serious attempt to discredit evolution and contained about 700 scientists (mainly social scientists) who signed a statment doubting Darwin's theory.
  
  In response, and largely as a joke to show just how ridiculous such an effort was - a counter list containing only scientists with the first name "Steve" was begun. It now has about 1200 signatories, including all the steve's who currently hold a nobel prize. Hawking was their 300th signatory. It's really funny.
  
  http://ncse.com/taking-action/project-steve
  
  Although it's about evolution rather than about atheism, I think it conveys the same point!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree, it does. It certainly makes the point on evolution as clear as a bell.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Signing both the lists proves that the scientist don't care much about the atheists and their machinations.
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  superwagsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I've just explained, it's not about atheism. It's making a point about evolution and pretending that democracy within science somehow should influence decisions - it isn't about how many people believe something, it's about what's right.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He didnt believe in a personal god but he believed in god a creator. so stop spoiling his name he hated it and he deserves this respect. Beezledad is to crooked I pointed this out to him around a year back yet he insist on ruining Einsteins names.
  In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support for such views. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, p. 214)
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It was you who first used his name to support your beliefs Mohit, not the other way around.
  
  Stop using his name like this he hated it.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is a fabrication conjured from dishonest believers who no more understand Einsteins theories than they do his private affairs.
  
  It is YOU who is spoiling his name by perpetuating fabrications.
  
  You no more understand Einsteins words now than you did then. You can call me names all you like, that doesn't change a thing.
  
  The problem here is that many of Einsteins quotes have already been explained to you and other believers, ad nauseum, as well as quoting his own words here, ad nauseum, of believers who perpetuate those fabrications.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stop being corny and childish earnesthub , you fanatical atheist would keep using the word logic and science and I showed you look the greatest of scientists believed in god using logic.
  I said both the athiest and believer feels he is correct and logical.
  
  So stop saying illogical, and nonsense or scientific when replying, open your minds.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Read what superwag said above and stop talking down to people it makes you appear neurotic.
  And don't call me a fanatic either!!!!!!!!!!
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well your behavior is fanatical, why else would someone who is an atheist hang on a religious forum for years intent on mocking everyone who believes in god.
  I repeat be nice and I will return the favor and stop being childish.
  
  You post a spiritual question and on getting an answer you reply saying it nonsense? arent you going out of your way to mock people?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Grow up mohit, you are unable to hold a truthful conversation and also unable to speak without abuse.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am the person answering the questions and in return I get crap from you atheist. In fact you atheist give crap to very single person who believes in god
  and add a comment.You guys have no idea what we are discussing yet you will interfere and try to ruin the discussion.
  
  This jesus hippy guy says you are not an atheist, isnt that absolutely ridiculous.?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I tend to agree with mohit on this
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  superwagsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm surprised to hear that Paar.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No it is totally true.
  I am not an atheist. The very word is a religious construct.
  
  Before there is an atheist there needs to be a god.
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  thebrucebeatposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  With all due respect, Earnest, it's not.
  Does there have to be a tribe of underwater humans for you to not believe they exist?
  Of course not. Humans do not have gills and are not equipped to live underwater, so you can understand the concept without believing the concept is possible.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well, thank you for expressing your view and explaining what you have written.
  
  Wiki says that the term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god", which was applied with a negative connotation to those thought to reject the gods worshipped by the larger society. With the spread of freethought, skeptical inquiry, and subsequent increase in criticism of religion, application of the term narrowed in scope. The first individuals to identify themselves as "atheist" appeared in the 18th century.[7]
  
  To my mind if there is no god, there is no word needed to oppose it.
  Wouldn't a theist belief in a deity be a prerequisite for the word atheist to have meaning?
  I don't know of a single word such as unaqua nongilly to describe a non belief in humans with gills.
  Am I missing something here?
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  thebrucebeatposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can live with that.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nice! Thank you.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entr … _gb0977070
  
  a person who does not believe in the existence of God or gods:
  
  This is again fanatical you know he is writing rubbish yet you will support it.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You told me not to be childish again Mohit. Do it again and I won't bother with you at all.
  
  You seem to like old information, read back on the word atheist, you will discover that as usual you only have some of the information you need to base your beliefs on.
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  superwagsposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't believe in the existence of god, but there are an awful lot of other things I don't believe in either. The easter bunny didn't turn up yesterday, nor to I believe in unicorns, fairies, goblins or Santa Claus. So to say that you are atheist is to say there's just one more thing you don't believe in without evidence.
  
  You believe in a particular god too - but there are thousands of gods out there. So you could logially say that there are thousands of gods in which you could believe and yet don't, an "atheist" just goes one god further!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, that is how the word is defined, but historically it was a form of abuse used by religionists for anyone who did not follow their creed.
  Much like it is used by religionists today who are unaware that not believing in something requires nothing more than being able to reason.
  They have to say it is another religion when as someone pointed out, it is not necessary to have any particular belief to not believe something like this.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Go ahead dont bother, its not an intelligent debate anyways and I like intelligent debates .
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm really not sure how the posting of my picture and credentials will in any way support your strawman fallacies and fabrications.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Funny how you embrace the support of a fabrication in order to build a strawman.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  oh well
  have a nice day
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is interesting how you dismiss the discussion when your beliefs and your reasoning clash and fail miserably. .
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knolyourselfposted 14 years ago
"how about instead we all worship each other?" Think that is the way of Buddhism.
We are all divine beings. "Spirits in a material world."
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Buddha never said that all human beings are divine. Please quote from him.
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knolyourselfposted 14 years ago
"Buddha never said" so what. Jesus or Mohamed never said ......so what.
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
That could mean ignorance; they did speak.Didn't they?
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brotheryochananposted 14 years ago
Okay what about this...
We know that God has visited this planet before in human shapes.
-Melchizedek, the fourth man in the firey furnace with daniel, one of the three angels that sat at meat with Lot before sodom and gomorrah died... etc.
-Jesus IS God, wrapped in flesh.
-When Jesus rose from the dead He kept his fleshly body
-He said to Didymus, who is 'doubting' Thomas, to stick his fingers in his wrists and side (the holes where he was pierced)
-Jesus ascended to heaven prior to pentecost (acts 2) 50 days after passover (sacrifice of the passover lamb = Jesus)

Now that Jesus is in heaven, Gods throne room or the focal point of God, where Gods presence is concentrated (for lack of better terminology); are we thinking that Jesus is sitting in a comfy chair on the right hand of God or are we thinking that along with Gods others fleshly or bodily usages he just doffed the husk (as he did before) and the God in Jesus melded with God again, where He came from in the first place.
Jesus work was done on the cross.. by his stripes we ARE healed, he WAS bruised for our iniquities. On the cross Jesus said, "it is finished". Paul said, "now when he was done (Jesus) he went and sat on the right of God"... a place of power not a literal right side of God... not that God has hands... its a jewish idiom.

So i am saying that since there is ONE God and none other beside Him...(isaiah 45) that another name for God is Jesus, just like jehovah, or el shaddai or any of the other names of God.. Jesus melded with the father, from whence jesus came.. until the next time God needs to be on earth as jesus (as king).. he will fully occupy the husk of Jesus, manifest the vessel identical to Jesus' first appearance, i am assuming with nail holes and spear hole and come back but until then, Jesus and God are merged into one being and God has another name.

Its a hard and different concept to grasp. But the two have become one as the one became two. This keeps with the many many times that God says, there is only one God and i am He.
If Jesus is God wrapped in flesh, is it so hard to understand that the two are now one, until the king must return to earth again.
enjoy
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus never said in a straightforward manner that he was the Creator-God; it is the non-believing gospel writers who projected Jesus wrongly. He said the he was in the image of the Creator-God; which every prophet messenger is by default; in the image of God means being a role model for the people.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "non-believing Gospel writers"?
  You are so ridiculous. You have no idea what you are saying.
  
  I don't know why I bother....
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Gospel writers called scribes ran away when Jesus was crying in agony on the Cross; what need they had to run; at the most they could be killed. If they believed Jesus was a god and was going to resurrect from the dead, then Jesus could have resurrected them from the dead also; they need not to run from the scene. They were not believers in Jesus.
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  aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You need to read the Bible, paar.
  All you are telling me is your fairy tale version!
  You have NO evidence for your claims. NOT ONE.
  (by evidence, I mean historical, written accounts)
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There were no mass murders happening during the 6hrs on the cross. The people standing around were both christians and romans. Why would anybody run during this time? except to get away from the sounds of remorse and anger. When the bodies were taken down the people dispersed as at other times.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well for once, I'm with Parra on this one.
  
  All four gospels are anonymous texts. The familiar attributions of the Gospels to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John come from the mid-second century and later and we have no good historical reason to accept these attributions.
  
  -Steve Mason, professor of classics, history and religious studies at York University in Toronto (Bible Review, Feb. 2000, p. 36)
  
  The question must also be raised as to whether we have the actual words of Jesus in any Gospel.
  
  -Bishop John Shelby Spong
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  Disappearingheadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Seeing as much of the Church's doctrine simply contradicts the bible then it seems to me that the Church did not make them up. Had the Church written them to suit its own ends, then one would be ablle to support its beliefs from the bible. If it was all written by man, then one would expect considerably more contradiction than the Muslims and atheists would are oft to try to point out.
  
  Therefore the source of the text is elsewhere. It's just too well put together to be derived by committee. So although historically texts cannot always be attributed to the authors we've traditionally been taught, I am inclind to believe God inspired.
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  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is your claim for belief, then. Can you substantiate the claim by comparing what you believe is inspired by god with any other doctrines, stories or whatever, that you don't believe were inspired by a god?
  
  And, can it be shown that there are indeed books that are not considered inspired by a god but are indeed "derived by a committee or attributed to the authors" yet are far more credible and valid than the doctrines you believe?
  
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We know for sure that Bible is not written or authored by the Creator-God Allah YHWH; it is not evern authored or written or dictated by Jesus or anybody legitimately authorised by Jesus. Jesus was at that time in India where he died and is buried there.
  
  It is not authored or inspired by the Creator-God or by Jesus; it is inspired by cunning Paul, and the sinful scribes and misleading Church followed Paul.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  i'm with you on this one.
  when the words of God are not in the people then they just don't know.
  When people don't believe they just don't believe
  nothing to do but go to where, as the bible puts it, is fertile ground.
  Since it is of Gods spirit to change people the only option is to pray for the unknown sinners.
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jay_kumar_07posted 14 years ago
GOD forgive and accept the people those who are worship idol in the name of GOD - IN BIBLE.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You sound like lot's of fun!
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  jay_kumar_07posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  More fun around us.
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  jay_kumar_07posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Fun for gallery people.
  Effort for stage people.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure that means something, I just don't know what that something is.
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  jay_kumar_07posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Something in effort.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I still have no idea what you are saying or why you are saying it.
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Suncoast2.0posted 14 years ago
Why has everyone agreed to count the years from Jesus Christ onwards?
Why has everyone come to count the years from Jesus onwards if a great deal of people don`t share this religion. Why is this Jesus event so special that everyone had decided to record time from him onwards?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hundreds of years of killing people who did not follow the religion may have had something to do with it.
  I'm glad they are no longer allowed to kill non believers.
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  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  that darn catholic religion.
  I sure am glad i missed that flavor of ice cream.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yep! The catholics were great at killing those who did not follow their ways.
  
  Between the crusades and the inquisition they probably killed more than most other religions put together.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Any Catholic here to confirm it.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Except for islam, which tops the bill.
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  dutchman1951posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is True Paar, Earnest is accurate here
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very sad.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes very sad, so is the elephant in the room you chose to overlook..... again.
  
  "Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school."
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed. The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great's army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism. Zoroastrianism was eliminated from Persia. The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam. In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad. Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school."
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Earlier, you stated the following:
  
  "Between the crusades and the inquisition they probably killed more than most other religions put together."
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly!
  The word "almost" is the operative here.
  You have been deliberately obtuse as usual.
  
  Why don't you refute the claim I made, or stop making your ridiculous claims that Islam is peaceful.
  
  Don't you ever see TV?
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aka-djposted 14 years ago
I was put off by the title, but upon reflection on it, it actually makes sense (kinda )

Using the principle of a double negative, an idol is a false god. So, if Jesus were a false, false god, that would actually make Him the REAL DEAL.

I LIKE IT.

Thanks Paar.
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Kiriuposted 14 years ago
Superwags
I have masters in thermodynamics so better listen to what I say!
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paarsurreyposted 14 years ago
Moses believed:

[4] Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord. [5] Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole strength.
http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=5& … &f=s#x

Jesus believed:

[37] Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. [38]

http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47 … &f=s#x

So worshipping Jesus is worshipping a false idol
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  just_curiousposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting post paar. I suppose, by that, you would also agree that the worship of a mohamed is wrong. Whatever shall we do about that?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Muslims worship only the Creator-God Allah YHWH; Muhammad is never worshipped by the Muslims; he is a messenger prophet of the Creator-God of the highest status among the prophets messengers.
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  just_curiousposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You might share that thought at the next riot over a perceived insult. It might help.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't get you.
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  just_curiousposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Join the club.
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Kiriuposted 14 years ago
Einstein's head
don't atheist realy beleive what they beleive they don't beleive?
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Kiriuposted 14 years ago
Deborah, paarsurey
Jesus said, 'before Abraham was born, I Am. God said to moses, I Am is my name.

The I actually Am God!
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I is a pronoun used by everybody in English language.
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  ______________________
  This is long but please read and think about it.
  
  Deuteronomy 18:18
  18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
  
  He always spoke of God, never himself.
  John 14:10
  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU I SPEAK NOT OF MYSELF,but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works
  
  He did the same thing with Moses and Aaron:
  Exodus 4
  
  10. And Moses said unto the LORD, O my LORD, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since you have spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue.
  11. And the LORD said unto him, Who has made man's mouth? or who makes the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?
  12. Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach you what you shalt say.
  13. And he said, O my LORD, send, I pray thee, by the hand of him whom you wilt send.
  15. And you shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.16. And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.
  
  John 8
  47. He that is of God hears God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
  50. And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeks and judges.
  51.Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
  52…..Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. .
  54. Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; .of whom ye say, that he is your God:
  55. Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying..
  56. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad..57.Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
  58. Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was I am.
  
  God showed Abraham the one that would be the Messiah.
  For a long time God had planned to raise up the Messiah
  By faith Abraham knew the Messiah before he appeared.
  
  John 8:58
  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was I am.
  
  What he meant
  The Hebrew scriptures there is not a comma. Since Yahshua spoke the words God Gave Him, he wasn't speaking of himself. He was speaking of the "I Am"
  
  The word "AM" is a present tense.If he was talking about himself being here before Abraham, he would use past tense, were was
  
  The correct translation is
  I will be what I will be.
  "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be),"
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Kiriuposted 14 years ago
Paarsurrey
And everybody Am He
'In the beginning was word and the word was with God and the word was (whether you like it or not) GOD'.

'For to us a child is born, the gorvenment is on his shoulder. He will be called wonderfull Counsellor, (whether you like it or not) MIGHTY GOD, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.'

'Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to (whether you like it or not) WORSHIP HIM.'
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  These sentences are made-up by the scribes to confuse the sheep by writing meaningless words. Jesus was a straighforward man; from whom he should have feared not to mention his name.
  
  Why should one want to put words into the mouth of Jesus?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where is name Jesus mentioned in the quotes; it is not there.
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  Uirikposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Go on reading a few verses down in each and you will find the name Jesus!
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Kiriuposted 14 years ago
Paarsurrey
let me ask you a question; from which book do you read about Jesus?
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  From Quran and Bible; Quran corrects the accounts of Jesus life given in Bible with rational reason, which Bible does not.
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  Uirikposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So it was Deborah whom i should have addresed. I thought you were a bible beleiver
  kiriu
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Uirikposted 14 years ago
Deborah
thanks for that at long answer. Jesus indead talked about the Father but was it always? In the gospel of John, what populates it is the words I Am. I am the vine, I and the father is one, come to me, he who has seen me has seen the Father, when I be lifted up will draw all men to me I am the way the truth and the life I am the Alpha and Omega etc you are correct however in saing he never said directly; I am God but indead he talked about himself and in ways many people feer to talk about themselves. It was his way of speaking of himself that triggerd hatred from Jews. They said he made himself equal to God and he spock as one with authority like no one else have ever spocken.

kiriu
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  Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  _______________________
  We discussed this in another thread. read my answer here
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/73525?p … ost1600509
  
  Also when God gave Eve to Adam-he said the two shall be one.
  Not the same person, just united.
  
  The bible is full of allegories, metaphors, euphemisms, parables, etc.
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  paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you
  Religion covers all faculties needed for guidance in the human life ; it uses all form of poetry allegories, metaphors, euphemisms, parables, etc. It is not a text book of science; though it does not prohibit science.
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  Uirikposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It was a quaranist who taught me about God without quoting any book in what amounted to a whole book. It was very enjoyable lesson. I am yet to find a biblist who can drop bible for a moment and tell you about God right from his head.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  True, but there are a large number of ex believers who know both the bible and quoran very well indeed, and have little trouble remembering both.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ------------------------
  He always spoke of God, never himself.
  
  John 14:10
  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU I SPEAK NOT OF MYSELF,but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works
  
  The people around, as you, thought he was speaking of himself.
  
  He never spoke of himself
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  reply report

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