The truth of Mormonism?

1. 61

   secularist10posted 13 years ago

   This cartoon claims to explain Mormon beliefs and doctrine.
   
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0z_VlVeLfk
   
   Some additional info is given in the description of the video. It includes ideas on the creation of the black race, Jesus' preaching activities in the pre-Columbian Americas, Elohim and the virgin Mary, and others.
   
   So is this really what Mormonism is all about? What is true and what is false?

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2. 66

   goldenpathposted 13 years ago

   This is one of the most skewed renditions of my faith.  It is apostasy and wrong.  I would never slander someone else's beliefs.  In fact, to ask the question from a Youtube video is not very educated.  The internet, HubPages included, is full of all kinds of lies and people set on destroying the faith of others.
   
   Like all others this narrator/author must have had an "axe" to grind against the Church and did so through this useless vile video.  Do you think that's inspiration to pursue the destruction of someone else's beliefs simply because you were offended at some point?  That's all it is.  Most people that become bitter toward their own faith were briefly offended by someone else and have taken it so personally as to be puffed up in pride.
   
   I've been in LDS Church leadership for many years and I abide by the doctrines and precepts of my faith.  If you have specific questions of a faith then ask a devout member of that faith.  I strongly advise against taking anything from the internet as gospel truth about someone else.   
   
   For further evidence just watch the following responses.  It's inevitable that the woodwork will open up to chew me up.  That's OK though.....

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   1. 60

      dingdondingdonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      As you're a Mormon and I'm not, I'm not going to act as if I know more about it than you do. That would make me look very stupid indeed.
      
      But doesn't it make you wonder, if you contend that these accusations are all just vicious lies, why the LDS Church specifically would rile so many (because this isn't the first time I've heard things like this, far from it) people to the point where they all begin spreading the exact same "lies"? Isn't that a little convenient?

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      1. 66

         goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Why do so many get riled?  That's an easy one.  The steps and goals of our faith are built upon adherence to the laws and precepts of the gospel.  Progress is built upon it.  It's just like school.  You don't learn everything the first year but rather over multiple years you receive your doctorate or whatever. 
         
         Many people after accepting the gospel and enter the waters of baptism lapse back into old ways.  They are very hard to let go.  Science has proven the law of taking the path of least resistance.  It's no different here.  Either accept the gospel and strive toward personal growth or take the easy way and live the life you always have without that gospel growth. 
         
         When some make that alternate decision they become bitter because their own lack of commitment and inability to foster faith creates that defensive shield.  Their only recourse in feeling any better is to attack the doctrines that they have turned their back on and have knowingly failed to instill in their lives.  I know it to be true because I've seen it scores of times. 
         
         Convenient?  You bet it is... for them.
         
         As far as the lies are concerned what they do is deliberately twist and misconstrue doctrines to make them look like something carnal, secret and manipulative.  They do this in order to convince themselves that what they once accepted was something they never could have accepted at all.  Twisted, huh?  But that's how it works.

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         1. 60

            dingdondingdonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I am an atheist, so "they feel guilty because they're not religious" arguments will fall flat with me, I'm afraid.

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   2. 61

      secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Goldenpath, I just thought it was an interesting topic for discussion. I certainly don't take anything like this as gospel--in fact, I don't take anything as gospel, period. That's why I asked the questions.
      
      Incidentally, you have not explicated any of the main issues presented.

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      1. 66

         goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well, you really didn't specify what you wanted explained.  The video just animated a bunch of misinformation but you have yet to ask a specific question.

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         1. 0

            just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I'd like to ask a question, if you don't mind. Two actually. I didn't watch the video. Since you found it offensive.
            
            I've always heard that Mormons teach that they'll rule a planet in the afterlife. Is that true? If so, can you expand on it.? Also, I know Mormons who have gone to Oregon to have their under garments blessed. Could you explain that?

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            1. 66

               goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Rule a planet?  No.  However, life is about learning and knowledge based upon one's worthiness and obedience to the laws of the gospel.  Being literal offspring of the Father we have divine destinies if we are worthy in the end.  Even after death there is still continued learning on all levels.  To inherit what He has for all of us is also to inherit knowledge that we will have the opportunity to learn.  This includes science on all levels and the mechanics of all elements.  In short, yes, IF found worthy we may inherit the blessing of organizing the elements into worlds just as He has done.  This would perpetuate the plan to bring life into mortality to work out their own salvation.  This blessing is not and should never be a goal.  The goal always is to serve the Father.  The gospel is restrictive but rather teaches the endless possibilities of human potential IF one is worthy.
               
               The garments are sacred and cannot be delved too deep in the forum.  However, I will tell you that when one is worthy to receive the privilege of utilizing these garments they are already prepared to serve the person that wears them.  There is no "taking" garments anywhere to be blessed.  The only traveling that takes place in our faith is when we go to the holy temples.  I do believe there is one in Oregon.  We wear garments at all times but never take them anywhere to be blessed.  There may be a misunderstanding in the destination and the purpose thereof.
               
               Hopefully this explains your two questions better.
               
               P.S.  The Temples are where families and the family relationships are sealed for all eternity and exists beyond the grave.  Where modern thought leads people to "till death do you part" we believe that family was meant for eternal lasting purposes.

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         2. 61

            secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Goldenpath, I asked what is true and what is false in the video in the OP. So you say it's 100% incorrect? There is absolutely NOTHING factual in it at all? Now is your chance to correct any errors you want. You have a forum. And others can discuss and ask questions and debate, etc. That's the idea of a forum.

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            1. 66

               goldenpathposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Forgive me, it was not my intention to aim discord your way.  I welcome sincere questions.  It is a daunting daily experience when individuals out there have full purpose of heart to destroy the faith of others.  Where there are many that like to destroy Christianity in general there are very few faiths that are segregated out for target like the Latter-day Saints.
               
               It's hard for me to pinpoint parts of the animation for explanation because the whole thing was a blatant slandering of doctrines.  If you have specific questions for me I'll do my best to explain it but I find it hard to go start to finish on debating the animation.  To me the animation is a textbook rendition of someone glancing at something and quickly predetermining what it means.  They find a set of beliefs that can be construed as something funny and they glorify it in animation form. 
               
               One thing that does come to mind is the idea in the video of women.  They make it seem as if we degrade them.  In contrast, we hold women up on a level that cannot be compared.  We see them as physically most like unto God in that they are "co-creators" of life.  That, to us, is a holy and revered calling.

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               1. 91

                  livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  That's ironic, considering the most vehemently anti-Mormon people I've read about or met are Christians (specifically evangelicals). Most are very, very insistent at the fact that they don't consider Mormons Christians at all.
                  
                  I know Mormons have been trying to ingratiate themselves with the evangelicals for quite some time, but it doesn't seem to be working.

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               2. 61

                  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  My criticism of religion is pretty well-established, but rest assured I am an equal-opportunity critic. I don't see Mormonism as any more or less rational than any other faith community.
                  
                  From what you've said so far, I think there are some truths in the portrayal, even if there are falsehoods as well.
                  
                  Take this image
                  
                  
                  
                  Now, it uses hyperbole and whatnot, but it's still pretty accurate. Just because it puts things in unusual terms doesn't mean the essential idea is incorrect.
                  
                  I know the video is supposed to be more explanatory, not a caricature, but the point is that I think there is some truth to it. I also know some of these doctrines are held by the fundamentalist Mormons and different ones are held by the mainstream churches.

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   3. 66

      heavenbound5511posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Goldenpath-
      I do not wish to argue with anyone so I'll just say I don't agree with the mormons doctrine and leave it at this.
      
      One question if someone ask you how to be saved what would you do & say?
      God bless you:)

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3. 56

   Arcjahadposted 13 years ago

   I live in New Jersey and up the street from my house is a house full of young Mormons who knock on doors doing missionary work but they only go to the homes of the mexicans in our area and when the knock on the doors of others they seem to freeze up and they sorry for disturbing you . Why do they do this?

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4. 0

   Onusonusposted 13 years ago

   Funny Cartoon.
   There are several problems with the video, the main thing being that it is full of half truths and gets it's information from unreliable sources, all for shock value.
   
   for instance there is a quote that Joseph Smith said he "did more for mankind than any other person including Jesus." that is from a very unreliable source and was published long after Joseph was dead.
   
   For shock value they assert that Joseph Smith will be the judge of the world instead of Jesus Christ. This comes from a Brigham Young quote and is out of context. It is contextual however that we believe Joseph Smith was a prophet and apostle of Christ, and therefore has the same status as the origional twelve apostles. Jesus did say to them that they would sit with him at the judgment seat, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:28-30; see also Matthew 19:28.)
   
   This is a small part of the video, and we could write a book refuting it. My advice would be to disregard it and if you have any questions I would be happy to answer them to the best of my ability.
   there is also an apologetics page for more indepth answers if you don't find me to be scholarly enough.
   http://www.fairlds.org/

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   1. 61

      secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with the problems with the video. It's good to have a sense of humor.

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5. 59

   Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago

   http://www.whatismormonism.com/

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   1. 61

      secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      From the link:
      
      "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so." - Brigham Young, President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1863, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 110.
      
      Well, hey, that's not so different from good old Abraham and Joshua, right?

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      1. 59

         Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Only the beginning of the weirdness, I'm afraid.  Did you know the lost tribes of Israel formed an advanced civilization in America long before the Spaniards set foot here?
         
         Joseph Smith was a known con man, a money finder who would place his hat over his face in order to get a vision of where the hidden money was to be found during his scams.
         
         Coincidentally, he used the same method when receiving his god's instructions on what decisions to make. 
         
         To quote old P.T. "Theres a sucker born......! 

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      2. 59

         Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Joseph Smith was nothing if not slick!  He used the bible to write his Book of Mormon, twice, as a matter of fact. He used a mixture of biblical plagiarism and outlandish scientific claims to base his bible on.  Not unlike TV evangelists of today.

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         1. 61

            secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            If there was ever an all-American religion, Mormonism is it.

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6. 66

   goldenpathposted 13 years ago

   Well, like I said at the top - Watch the following posts.  Now, use your own judgments. 
   
   You might find truth in the animation but if someone makes a presentation without the good intention not to deceive then the whole thing is incorrect.  There are no half truths. 
   
   All "anti" jargon in the previous posts had either quotes grossly out of context or other Youtube garbage used to slander individuals. 
   
   Needless to say the exact same people answered that I knew would and how they would.  However, I'm still waiting on a couple more to peep their heads through the wall cracks.
   
   Anyhow, this has been the venue of this topic since I started here.  It's highly unproductive.  If there are any sincere questions still left unanswered please do so by email.
   
   Have a great day dancing around the fire.

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   1. 0

      just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I never thanked you for answering my questions. I can only imagine how difficult it is. I have relatives who are JW and I heard a lot  of stuff before they worked their way up through the way they came to understand it. I.think it's all foolishness, but I also realize people aren't fools. Different things make sense to different people.
      
      Anyway, thanks for trying to explain a little about your faith.

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7. 59

   Randy Godwinposted 13 years ago

   Anyone interested in Mormonism can simply look back at old newspaper archives which relate the facts concerning Joseph Smith and his life of being a con man before inventing a new religion.
   
   It is a fascinating tale of greed, ambition, dishonesty, sexual deviation, murder, bigamy, extortion, and millions of willingly ignorant people.  Sounds like fiction, huh?

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   1. 0

      Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      That's how anti-Mormons like to paint the picture. Sensationalize, demonize, etc. It's a typical shock and awe campaign. And they get paid to dig up as much dirt as they can find.

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      1. 91

         livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "sensationalize, demonize"..."paid to dig up as much dirt as they can find"
         
         Wow, this sounds really, really familiar...something else related to Mormons in recent years.

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         1. 59

            Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            No one is getting paid for being rational.  Some of us consider it as being our duty to rail against fraud, not to mention willful ignorance of factual history and reality. 
            
            Hello Jason!

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            1. 91

               livelongerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Um, what?
               
               I was talking about the Mormon Church's funding of propaganda and demonization of gay people in California's Proposition 8.
               
               That was designed to curry the favor of the Baptists and other evangelical Christian churches. It didn't work. They still hate Mormons.

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               1. 61

                  secularist10posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  "I hate the same people you hate... do you guys like me now? Please...?"
                  "Nope, still hate you."

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      2. 59

         Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Are you saying I am wrong, OO?  But of course you are prejudiced because you are a member of the Mormon cult and have no choice but to defend it. 
         
         Perhaps you could give reasons and point out where anything I stated was untrue.  Factual links would be preferred, which pretty much eliminates any of the LDS based sites which tend to ignore reality.
         
         As I said, check out newspaper archives for the true facts of both Smith and Young's reigns.  Not very pretty for god's chosen leaders.

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         1. 0

            Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Factual links? You just threw out a bunch of substanceless accusations with absolutely no fact base.
            Well I guess since Young and Smith couldn't possibly stand against the old testament's untarnished record, I guess there is nothing more to say.

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            1. 59

               Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You are certainly free to disprove any of the statements on the provided link, OO!  Care to speak about the massacre of the menfolks on the wagon train traveling through Utah when Young was in charge? 

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                  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  No he wasn't.

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                  1. 59

                     Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     No he wasn't what?  The head of the Mormon group in Utah at the time of the massacre?
                     
                       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre
                     
                     
                     Only 120 people murdered though and the cover up was not successful.  Wonderfully kind folks, no doubt! 

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                     1. 0

                        Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        No he wasn't in charge of the Mormon group that went and massacred those people because they were acting contrary to the orders which Young gave them.
                        
                        "In regard to emigration trains passing through our settlements, we must not interfere with them until they are first notified to keep away. You must not meddle with them. The Indians we expect will do as they please but you should try and preserve good feelings with them. There are no other trains going south that I know of[.] [i]f those who are there will leave let them go in peace."

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      3. 72

         getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         So what's your version:  That Joseph Smith was actually telling the truth when he said he was visited by Jesuss, and that he was told to write this book of Mormon.  No room for a con job there, is there? 
         
         This is not sensationalism at all, being that we see Jesus appear everyday, RIGHT?
         
         Sensationalize?  We can't even come close to the picture you have painted as true.

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         1. 0

            Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            To a person who believes in nothing any spiritual event would be sensational.
            
            And yes I do believe that he was visited by Jesus and commanded to translate the Book of Mormon.
            I also believe that a talking snake convinced the first woman to eat a piece of fruit that would make her die, a man lead a group of Hebrew slaves out of Egypt and parted the water by raising his hands in the air, a man killed a giant with a sling, people commanded the weather, set stuff on fire, moved mountains, spoke with angels, and the son of God performed a vicarious sacrifice for the sins of the world so we can live forever.

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            1. 59

               Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Impregnating 13 year old virgins without their permission fits right in too!    Wasn't that how old Mary was when your god trifled with her?  And poor Joseph, can you imagine his reaction when Mary told him god knocked her up? 
               
               Yep, sounds like a real nice guy! 

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            2. 72

               getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               You seem to confuse sensational with nonsensical, or silly, or absurd, or ridiculous, or foolish.

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8. 56

   Arcjahadposted 13 years ago

   Anyone who says that they were visited personally by Jesus is lying plain and simple if you read scripture you would never fall for a trap like that right now as I write this our savior is at the right hand of our heavenly father now yes we were left with a comforter but to say you were visited by the Messiah himself you better test that spirit because even Satan can come as a angel of light to deceive you and also our Savior said when he returns it will be at the time of judgement not that he will return on a daily basis to visits millions of people. Stop making a mockery of our heavenly father and son

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   1. 59

      Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You just called the vast majority of your brethren liars.

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9. 0

   klarawieckposted 13 years ago

   I'm not totally aware of the mormon teachings, but from what I've gathered talking to mormon friends it's nothing like what the video says. Mormons have been the only hard-core religious people I've been able to mantain as friends because they are not pushy and are not trying to convert you. In all honesty, they are some of the best human beings I've ever met.

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10. 61

    qwarkposted 13 years ago

    The man who "sired" me  was converted from being a baptist to mormonism by a couple of young men in black pants, white shirts and black ties and who were riding bicycles.
    
    My "sire" died "a nut" trying to get financial help from the mormon church after tithing for over 30 yrs. He got none!
    
    If you are curious about another "nut" named Joseph Smith, read this short biography of his "wierdness."
    
    Read thru to the end when he was shot and killed.
    
    Mormons are as nutty as are believers in "scientology."
    
    http://www.lds-mormon.com/jsmith.shtml
    
    ...and the republicans may offer Romney, a mormon, as their pick for being Pres of these United States?
    
    Course if I remember right (I could be wrong) Joseph Smith ran for the presidency of the USA. I could go to Google, but what the hell, correct me if I'm wrong.
    
    I've said this b4, oh so many times, "man is so easily FOOLED and LED!"
    
    Qwark

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11. 66

    goldenpathposted 13 years ago

    Thanks heavenbound for your kind blessing.
    
    Our doctrine is by no means contained in the "cartoon" at hand.  Leaving all that aside I'll answer your question according to how a Latter-day Saint should answer.
    
    Your actions, words and thoughts make up who you are.  Being "saved" is much more than just "accepting" Jesus and doing a few rolls in the church aisles (which we don't do by the way).  To accept Jesus Christ is to incorporate his teachings into one's life. 
    
    We do not use the term "saved" as others do nor as much as others do.  Accepting Jesus (verbal acceptance as many believe) does not guarantee you anything and one should not be puffed up in pride over it.  To be "saved" is a lifelong process.  It is the day-to-day activity of correct thought, word and deed.  When you have mastered this all your days long you'll have mastered what it means to be a disciple of Christ.  Feeling that humbled assurance in your heart let's you know that He approves of your life.  In the end only He pronounces you saved.
    
    Now that's what I'd say but you also asked what I'd do.  I would try my hardest to be a genuine friend to that person who asked me.  Why?  Because they are humbled and asked a genuine question.  They and we are worthy of friendship.  Friendship does not have to be religious talk.  I like ice cream so perhaps I'd take that person out for some.  After all isn't friendship what being Christlike is all about?  That's my answer to your valid question.
    
    Thank you!

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