Very curious about this. Mit Romney didn't cut it. Mostly because of flip-flopping. Or was it really because he's a Mormon? Most Christians don't think Mormons are Christians at all, but rather a cult. Lots of very anti-stuff out there about the Mormons.
Why is it so important to dis this religion? Does condemning them somehow "save" them? Is bashing them, criticizing them and putting them down really Christ-like?
Inquiring minds want to know...
I knew Mormans, when I lived in Idaho...They lived by their book (Morman Book of laws), their bylaws are very differant from those who are Christians, but.....Like any other, their beliefs are differant, then mine/ours...Does that give us right to condemn them in their beliefs? No it doesn't....Only God has that right to condemn (judge).....And that goes for everyone...Doesn't matter what Denomination you are, God is the only one who can judge.....
God says to love your enemies....And this should used in loving those of a differant Denomination, Culture, or Sect. You may not agree with them, but it still does not give us the right to condemn them....
Could you explain your queston more clearly, since I know of Only 1 God, who is the Creator.....
Well it is a little akin, to the Alcoholics Meetings, where I was a Voulnteer, God is whatever you see him as. Mormons, portray him as Joseph Smiths persona, that, which was revealed to Smith, but I question the validity, of my lot as, like Darkside said earlier, in this Hub, it is abit Sci-fi. Of course you do not question, when you grow up with it.
Then you hear of the multiple Wives, which still goes on, and I guess I could say that we don't mix much with the Darker persuasion. But we are hardly K.K.K. as some would suggest. We are more diet concious, do not take any stimulants, Yes have to knock on Doors when younger, can take a Post doing it overseas, where my friends say we are equally popular.
You say you know of only one God who is the Creator, that mindset would possibly, have come from your families beliefs, Mormons are not, so different. Besides these days, I would not have a clue Who was right!
"I tell everyone to live and let live"
Less popular, I think. Knocking on people's doors in relation to religion is considered bad manners here in the UK.
It is a ghastly practise, but they are told to do it by the Leaders, I presume at some stage the Leaders have been Elders and have done it too.
But travelling in twos knocking on Doors, frankly I agree you feel intrusive, and in my case rather embarrassed.
Yep we enjoyed the mormon missionaries because they had different accents and bought lollies( candy) but after a while it got old.
As we matured too ,we resented the Church tracking our every address, for follow-up. My dad ended up saying..bACK-OFF ,because he hated watching us being afraid to open our own front door
We're talking about the same God here...I don't have a thing against the Mormans....They have their beliefs, which are differant, then mine, but they believe in Jesus too....I respect them and their beliefs, and will not condemn any one with differant Denominations/Beliefs then the ones I have.....
Well, there are others, like yourself, who feel their god created everything. You didn't indicate which supernatural being you were referring to.
What if we have no opinion, but to accept the fact that people will worship as they see fit. I just ask that, if you know what it feels like to be judged, you will remember that before you judge others.
In a survey I believe that the Mormons were rated as least trustworthy in selecting a president. That may have had something to do with it.
Like all religious organizations they continually rationalize their actions. That's why there was such a scandal with the IOC committee in Salt Lake City.
Daniel, I have a strong agreement with friends of mine who are not even as remote as I am at being non-religious; any religion under two thousand years is considered a cult.....
Why is it that Mormans knock at my door for me to convert when in reality, it is to save their lives to your heaven. I, on the other hand, go no where.......... ????????
The poor guys are Missionaries, Alot of them cringe everytime they have to do it. It is embarrassing, I did it about twice. The language, made me not so keen to repeat the process.
Today I am a Jack Mormon, A person, that still mixes with Mormon people, but I love Coffee and Ciggies. Where that leaves me I do not know!
Sorry to hear about the missionary task being forced on you. I at times like to play games with the Mormons who come knocking at my home by answering the door in the buff. Seems to get them to turn, tail between the legs, and never leave a calling card......
Not exactly, you won't be forgoten. There are three levels of glory you'll qualify for one, it may not seem fair at the time realizing you missed the boat. Hey just think what you gained a life time of pointing your finger at people who try to do good. Just keep saying to your self their stupid I'm right.
I believe that whatever glory an individual recieves by God's perfect judgment will settle perfectly in his or her mind. For some it wouldn't feel right receive a crown of rightousness if they spent their life having emnity towards God.
I once read the entire book of mormon. Quite entertaining, if I should say the least.
Time is a Wonderful Teacher... Over Time I Learnt I was Alergic to the Mormon religion.
I went to Salt Lake City as a tourist. The place is full of crazies! Even the bus driver gave us a lecture...
I think most people find it hard to believe because of the extraordinary amount of science fiction involved in the Book of Mormon.
The same goes for Scientology.
Which begs the question...how can Mormons possibly believe in it themselves? Still, you must admit there are more than a few "crazy" ideas in the old and new testaments: a talking snake, a giant whale/fish/whatever eats a guy and he survives after a few days, etc.
Religion in general has crazy ideas and only blind faith seems to hold them together. Lucky for the religious leaders there isn't any actual solid evidence of there every being this thing called god (in any religion), only "men" who talk about thinking they see things.
You don't have to believe anything you were given a choice, we call that 'Free Agency'. Even if you can't support the idea behind religon it provides a logical guide to decent human behavior. Lets see "Thou shalt not kill", now where did that come from it is way out there. Oh yea, "Thou shalt not bear false witness" for the unrepentant that means don't lie. Boy, that is alien when you apply it to this day and time.
It is hard to be a Mormon, Easy to be a Jack one, All the limitations, Coffee is my main one, I really think that it is something that you get roped into, I could not handle it.
Very hard for Young Ones, too be honest, I never quite was able to totally believe the Founders story.
I will say in their defence that they have a Great Database, if you want to study your Family Tree, as almost everyone ends up on it, Mormon or not.
Happier in the long run..... I lived in Idaho when going to college and most farming families around us were Morman. Problem is that when I was in Boise to party, I would see my fellow Mormans bucking up to the bar just like other folks.
I live in eastern Idaho in pretty much environment. To answer the questions, most of the LDS people I know are wonderful, bright, caring people who've had pretty interesting lives. The missionaries we get are nice, honest guys who, even in an area that's around 75% LDS still have a tough job. (The weather is the sort that "builds character" and our town's not exactly the nicest for pedestrians or bicycle commuters.) Even though I always pose very hard questions for them, I'm nice and I try to be hospitable.
My opinion of the LDS Church is a little more mixed. I believe in clean living (though I like the occassional coffee or glass of wine), and that preparedness is a very good idea especially with the kind of weather we get up here. I find some LDS teachings regarding the nature of God, the afterlife, some Great Apostacy necessitating a restoration of the Gospel, and the reliance of the entire church on continuing and changing private revelation a bit problematic, which is why I'm not LDS.
And I didn't vote for Mitt Romney because of his views on a couple of issues near and dear to me.
Um...I'll be honest. I 'want' to respect them (there are quite a few jumped over from Utah to Arizona here). They seem well-disciplined, etc...the mainstream ones, I mean. But. I can't, really, given the very...uh, controversial, um, colorful (?) history.
I mean, OK, Jesus was a hippy politician...and the simple truth was "treat others as you would yourself," which was big news back then, what with all the untouchables, etc., and the 'eye for an eye.' There was a self-sacrifice and a message, and I get that...
Joseph Smith just seems like a money mongering weirdo guy interested in treasure hunts, strange charismatic practices, fame, and making up excuses to have sex with multiple women.
Not even just Joseph Smith either. This is a religion that explicitly teaches that the whiteness of your skin is directly proportional to the purity of your character. There are some really choice quotes from Brigham Young in particular, but even the Book of Mormon contains passages like this:
My understanding is that stuff has been toned down in recent years, but there was the whole business in the late 70's with the convenient "revelation" that black Mormons could become priests, which occurred right as the US government was threatening to drop the church's tax free status because of its racist teachings.
The actual Mormons I've known have been, by and large, wonderful people. My great-grandmother was Mormon, and she was a total sweetheart. However, the church leadership's behavior tends to leave me with a really bad taste in my mouth, and it goes without saying that the FLDS are so far outside the realms of decent behavior that they're not even on the same planet. It's horrifying to realize that there are still women and children in this country who are being treated literally as chattel.
Lita its time to start taking your medicine again so the voices in your head will stop telling you all that crap.
Thats mild, Many do that sort of thing!.
Thankfully I have not experienced that, But many of them got alot of people that pretended to be retarded, or people that spoke in a foreign language.
But I think that as you said or someone said, It is Cultish in a way, and very very wealthy.
Personally I have no issues with Mormons, so long as I do not have to speak to the missionaries too often.
2 Corinthians 4:6 KJV "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" I compare your teachings to the Word of God, to shine the light and reveal the truth.
I cant believe that somone actually asked this flurry of uninformed questions on that sight.
I like this one in particular; "Suppose we evangelical Christians were to claim that we are “Mormons” because we “believe in Jesus Christ,” but we deny the Book of Mormon and teach that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. How would a LDS person feel about us claiming to be “Mormon” when we reject the basic tenets that underlie the LDS religion?"
These people seem to be missing one critical factor. If Protastents believe in Christ, and Catholics believe in Christ. Both religions are Christ based yet niether would make the claim that they believed in the other's religion.
Protastents dont believe in the role of the Pope, Catholics don't believe in the Refromation, yet both are considered Christian.
And the same goes for the Mormon religion. We don't claim to be refromationists, rather Restorationists. Still Christian.
but I'm confident that most intelligent people could come to that conclusion.
This sounds a little along the lines of slurring another religion. They're people with their own beliefs. Do you not have your own beliefs and ethics? I know many people from all walks of life and religions. Bottom line, they're people and the goodness is in the core of their heart. That's all that matters to me. And it should to others.
"Judge and we shall to be judged" that is my saying, I have friends from all religions and beliefs so personally each to there own with respect to the other person and I am a Christian.
I honestly believe that many modern Christian believers are so accustomed to what I refer to as "Regurtitated" theology. Meaning, they do not take the time to honestly research and question for themselves as to what is and what is not scriptural. The problem here is that if the question were reversed back upon the Christian thinking community, there would probably be the same answers. Christians are weirdos, they follow a charismatic teacher, they accept a book that is full of fables, myths, and scientific impossibilities. Christians are just as worldly as any other atheist who bucks up to the bar and orders a round. Change this from Christians to Roman Catholics, or Jews, or Muslims... Answers would most likely be very similar to the ones posted here.
However, there is one other possibility, there is truth to the claims of Mormonism that are starting to come forth and confound the wise and the knowledgeable to the point where their argumentations are going from sound reasoning to "you are wrong" as they cleft to traditions that are now being exposed as having basis in Hellinistic theosophy, philosophy and stem from integrated doctrines held previous to particular conversions.
For instance, why would a second century gnostic teacher be declared a heretic for teaching the very doctrine of an incomprehensible being called God, yet such philosophy and teaching is claimed to be part of Traditional Christianity in the establishment of the Nicene Creed: Meaning, adoption of the idea that God is a spirit and incomprehensible as the heretic was condemned for teaching?
Suffice it to say, many are uninformed, ignorant to, or possess learned knowledge that they have read off the internet, from some book or heard from some other person.
I'd like to add to the above that they'll oft take literally what appears to be allegory. Something many also prob won't like to think about is that rather than the OT predicting Christ, that Christ was created using the OT and Greco-Roman myths of the time. That's what I see as I study the various texts. I agree that much of what is taught or accepted re Christianity today is not scriptural sadly. Something else to ponder - the changes in word meanings from the time of the original texts writing to modern times, i.e. we'll happily use the modern meaning with no clue as to the original. Just as a simple idea of what I mean. What is translated as "Soul" in the Bible is the Greek word "Psuche" which in todays English is "Psyche". Add to this that our world "save" comes from "salv" meaning "to heal". Interesting that the Bible might be about healing the psyche instead of what we're often told
I dont believe in Mormonism, and I used to be involved with the LDS years ago now.
Early missionaries were just as nasty, coming in the name of God and acting worse than the people who didnt beleive...grrrrrr
English and Scottish missionaries ,no doubt some were good people ,but many others were not!
Their main ambition was to civilise the natives ,then save their souls..paleeeeease !!(while they raped the native girls)
Just rankles me their arrogance, dont follow the same God or use my language ,wait , you must be uncilivised...pure arrogance
Care to cite specific references? What of the Early Christian Missionaries who came and "forced" Christianity upon the natives? The conquestadors who came in the "name of God" only to shed innocent blood? Furthermore, what of the Spanish Inquisition?
Unless specific verifiable sources are cited in regards to your statement, then I will conclude that these are just your own bitter opinions at what you do not truly understand.
History books are full of records( but wont be written by the English) but you may conclude anything you like.
And my ancestors understood fully whose name some of those missionaries came in, and it wasnt Gods! (not according to the Bible)...
Do I sound bitter , yes ,as a matter of fact hell yeaaaaa!!
The Lds church doesn't go well with the Pub and promiscuity. Hey, the new world order will outlaw religion anyway and create orgyland. The place where if it requires morals, good behavior and Christians it will be banned. So lets slam a pint or two and all laugh at the stupid good people!We don't need no good examples they just invoke guilt and we don't want to be burdened with that!
There's a lot of arrogance in people who try to foist what they think is "the only" belief on others. It's in their tone. It's in their words. It often shows up in arrogant expressions/moves.
I just think, "Believe whatever you want, but get your mind off me, what I believe, and whether or not I go to church, etc." ABC's Nightline did a whole program on the Mormon Church, and I can't say I was impressed. In Massachusetts, radio talks shows made a big deal about the fact that Romney drove out of state (at highway speed) with his dog in a crate on the top of the car. It does make one wonder about religions that talk up a big, religious, storm and then disregarding how safe or kind it was to travel with the dog on top of the car.
Mormons get a bad name because they are in your face and on your doorstep but I like them because they are true to their belief. One thing about Mormons is they are dedicated and loyal to the Mormon religion and they will also help you out. They have the Cabin Girls respect !
I will agree with cabin girl,they helped me out in high school,when I couldn't even aford a suit for graduation;They are good people and do not bother anyone.
They are Christians 24/7 and they look for opportunities to serve the community. You couldn't have a more sincere friend.
They are among the looniest of the loonies and the next one who knocks on my door will get pissed on. They should save their "witnessing" for Scientologists. They at least could be brought one step closer to reality; the rest of us are fine without hearing their nonsense.
Yeah pissing on someone sounds really adjusted Ron, wish you were my neighbour.
No adjustments necessary, my aim is true.
Ron, peeing on people sounds entirely sane. It doesn't sound like you know the meaning of respect. Lets see Evangelicals have it all right! Pastors involved in gay love triangles. Lets send money to those with mansions and air conditioned dog houses. We do have a recycleing program though, thats where your prayers go!
Catholics don't get comfortable I'm sure Jesus intended for you to sell salvation. Hunt for all those heretics then burn, twist, spank and kill the devil in them. We won't mention the boys in the choir thats just plain sick.
Is this why you wear a helmet,instead of a face?
I guess then, that I can say I am relieved to no longer be a Door knocker. No one has ever had that happen, thats disgusting. I'm sorry it just is disgusting.
Kathryn is a pretty girl, while granny already. I guess she's the only mormon I know
Mormons are not Star Belly Sneech Christians....They do help those in need....in the end...that is what counts.
Geez...can't we all just kind of back up into our corners and figure out that we just don't agree with each other?
I'm never gonna be a Mormon. Don't agree with them. But I'm happy for all of the Mormon believers out there. (Except the ones with multiple wives...I have really bad statements for them.)
I, for one, believe that God, Allah--whatever you want to call her are the same. Just believe....and leave others alone.
In the great country of Canada that I live in, we have fought, and continue to protect, our freedom of speech, religion and our charter of rights. In another words, we have the freedom to choose what we believe in without being persecuted by our peers. We are a country of many ethnic backgrounds, which means, we have just as many, if not more, different types of religions and beliefs. We live side by side, without prejudice and judgement. We respect each others' differences and make allowances for these differences for peace.
We also have the right to answer, or not answer, our telephone, our e-mail, our chat lines and our doors. There is no law stating that we must acknowledge the ring or the knock. If you choose to answer, then you must expect that there is a purpose to the knock. By reciprocating that request, you have agreed to participate. If you don't want to become engaged with the other party, then don't answer. It's that simple. They'll either walk away, not phone again, not request another chat or not email you again. The choice is yours.
If you answer, quit complaining.Just don't do it again. Besides, there's better things to do in life, especially on a sunny day!!!!
Live and let be. I am an athiest, I believe that there is no god and that when I die I will rot in the ground. Hopefully the resulting compost will come to some use, as a fertiliser for some plants of some sort, the support of the eco system that keeps the rest of us alive.
Now, my true point is, that Mormons disagree with me just like any other Christian disagrees with me and like Muslims disagree with me. Its all good that we all disagree with each other, I guess one of us will be right, we don't need to have wars or arguments over it. I respect that some of you believe in god, just as long as you respect that I don't.
I have never had a mormon knock on my door, as I am in the UK, but I have met a few in the USA and they all respected my wishes not to talk about religion. On the other hand, the Armish have always been incredibly rude!
Well sir, if I didn't know better, I would say you were my grandson...He recently told me he's athiest too....We do have conversations once in a while...Not because I bring up God, but he does....And after we have our talk....He'll say, I'm sorry grandma, I don't believe it....That's his right...Just like it's yours....Peace!
Absolutely, just like it is your right to decide whether or not to believe in something ellie (or should that be grandma!).
I don't think that you have to believe in god himself to enjoy or agree with aspects of religious texts either. Many of my morals could of come straight from the bible, maybe I would be considered a 'sinner' for a few less serious things. I can see the value in people finding their religion, particularly for the moral grounding that it gives them, and would never question somebodies beliefs. I believe that it is perfectly feasible for a believer and a non believer to get on very well without debating religion! Take care ;-)
Yes they can get along....No problem, as long as they are not trying to shove their beliefs down each other's throat....And that's me to a tee.....Peace To You!!
I spent half a year studing this subject and it is very interesting
Dearest ryankett, Those comments are so neutral, I like you, I don't like your beliefs, but we can always be friends, What? Look I don't want you or any of your commie friends in my compost! My brussels are conservative, Mate!
You sure you want to stick to that path?It certainly has some history most bad. Lets see Stalin now hes an atheist and hes a fine example of what we should aspire to be. Just suppose there is a God do you think they'd be friends? Or, how about Mao, now thats an atheist to be proud of! How about Komgitkilled in North Korea now hes a mans man and an atheist, murderer, despot, rapist, terrorist, idiot, moron, and a fasion giant. Please!
Look pick something else to be you don't look like their kind of guy. Lets face it theres no future in bursting the religious bubble that provides so much for so many. Remember the mark one man, the son of God, left on this planet in 32 years. What else can you find that has had such an impact on our world? This wasn't dumb luck, and his contribution wasn't due to death and destruction. It was love. Peace.
When we were kids scientology was considered a fiction novel by a scifi writer, how did it become a religion. Mormons might be considered crazy but they are also committed it takes nerve to keep knocking on doors that slam in your face.
I guess anything goes on HP, and I celebrate the freedom we have to say what we want. But I have been reading these comments and my conclusion? There's a dearth of civility and respect in our world. It makes me sad. A lot of hatred out there. Seems like a waste of energy.
My, my, my, my, my.
I wrote the question, blinked once, hit "post" and came back to find this 4 page history.
I thought my question would be completely ignored.
Personally, getting back to topic, I think Mit was snubbed, first, because he is Mormon, and Mormons are considered heretics and cultists, and second, because it was was no surprise that he doesn't stand for anything for more than five minutes. (Able to change opinions in a single sentence! Super Mit!)
As for all the other argument about religions and Mormonism, here are a few facts. (I have them right because I'm acquainted with them. LOL)
There are LOTS of Mormons who are in prisons all over the earth for doing the same dispicable things that people from any other religion and no religion at all do. That's a simple fact.
The Mormon church has retracted a few things over the decades: Standing on Blacks and the priesthood. Removing "white and delightsome people" from the Book of Mormon, which is taught as the "most correct book". (If it is the most correct book, why did they need to make the change? And if they didn't make the change, how could God be racist?)
But that's not all. The Mormon Church does step up to help human suffering. They stepped in to help during many a hurricane, many a drought, during war, and so much more. They mean well.
As for me, I think the need to be "right" is a horrible thing. Isn't it really about doing and being "good?" I figure everyone can't mistake what good is. So do that. If it isn't good, then don't do it.
So "dis-ing" another human being is good? Nope. Don't think so.
Considering all the crap each of us has put on other human beings--and I do believe that is undeniable--whether it's abuse, robbery, coveting, gossiping or whatever it might be, we all have pretty much done it. So why do any of us have the right to condemn another person when we are in need of acceptance and love (and mercy and forgiveness) as any other person. So who among any of us is qualified to make that judgment of condemnation?
I don't think, personally, Romney is prepared to be a president for our country. I was curious about if others really had an issue of him being Mormon, or is it really his political views.
I hope all of us who got our dander up over this topic will turn the airconditioning on and just cool off. There are much more important things in life to be pissed about than Mormons, their missionaries and their doctrines. Really, there are.
We should collectively get a life. Maybe write lots more hubs that are about "good" and "goodness."
just my thoughts. I'll leave this arena and go and play elsewhere now.
All good vibes and energy to all here.
Really. I'm serious about that.
All religions started out as a cult. People thought Jesus was a cult leader when he began teaching. People thought John Calvin was a cult leader when he set up his church. Mormonism is new and they should expect criticism. But if they have loyal members, over time they will be considered a popular religion. I am not a Mormon nor do I intend to ever become one, but I think they have good morals and like that they shame drinking alcohol. =]
Just had to put in my little story here.
when I was about 14 years old, back in Wales, I met some Mormon missionaries. After talking to them I went to my Grandpa, old Druid as he was, and told him that the Mormons said that Joseph Smith saw God in a grove of trees. Grandpa replied;
"When you are in a grove of trees, don't eat the mushrooms."
That is funny! I know a woman who was a Mormon, married a Mormon, But she couldn't get past her childhood dreams. So she finally left and went in search of her own identity and she came back full circle to her childhood, and remembered, that when she was young. There were no, fights about who's right, and who's wrong, no worries to contemplate, no burdens to carry only laughter, and fun. So she found herself and her faith. thee end.
who am I to judge. I met a mormon last night and he seemed very nice.
When I was in college, I had a weed dealer that was a Mormon. He was cool as hell.
I do not always enjoy being approached by missionaries, whether they be Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons, but I feel they should have the right to worship like anyone else in a free society.
I usually gauge my thoughts regarding religions on actual people I know that follow said religions....
I have only known one Mormon person....thought it was always odd that he never drank caffeine...or alcohol....or did drugs...or anything....but I respected the hell out of his dedication. He never preached....he never gave a glance of disparagement....just a cool laid back kid that happened to have a particular belief I was not familiar with.
From my experience...I have no issues towards the religion...at least in this case.
Though judging a religion by the people who follow it is extremely common, it's not anywhere near as reliable as judging a religion strictly on the merits of its teachings. If I judged the LDS Church by its people, I might have converted a long time ago.
Life is short. People cling to what they have to and get to the end without imploding. More power to them. Frankly, if they could fix up that multiple wives thing somehow, make it more legal and add some fitness and sensuality requirement rules, I might sign on as long as there were some guidelines about nagging and stuff in there too. Of course, they would also have to lose the no booze clause and all that rot as well. They do that, they wouldn't need missionaries and stuff. People would flock to them.
Well, guys would.
Have to come up with a good marketing campaign to convince chicks it was worth it to come be subordinate and objectified and stuff. That might be tough. Need to target the non-reader chicks first I guess. Could be done though. I should write to them and tell them I figured out how to swell their ranks.
I think it was a misspelled translation of moron and mormon.
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