I can't get a link posted, but according to the News there's been a new plot thwarted, one by a Muslim who "conscientiously objected" to going to Afghanistan and previously spoke nicely, but then was found to be plotting to kill soldiers from Fort Hood. He shouted words echoing the same sentiments as the previous murderer at Fort Hood. Story can be found by googling Nasser Jason Abdo or the Fort Hood plot, etc...
I'm wondering when someone's gonna try to defend his actions or say he's not Muslim...that would be ironic, huh?! oh wait, apparently the New York Times already tried to downplay the terrorist plot. Reckon we all know why....
"...or say he's not Muslim...that would be ironic, huh?!"
Yes, it would, especially in the wake of the fact that many people were very quick to say the Christian crusader guy in Norway isn't a Christian.
If Christians get to disavow Christian extremists who do un-Christian things, then shouldn't Muslims get to disavow Muslim extremists who do un-Muslim things?
Honestly, there's a difference. Christian is synonymous with American, in general. At least it was until the liberals started trying to separate it. While Muslim is synonymous with Nations that are, well, Muslim overall! But this issue was about America's military; the man was in our military! So that was thrown into the mix. He had no business being there. And wouldn't you think that an American would have no business being in the military of, say, Pakistan? He would have no business there.
This statement is biased. It ignores the fact that christianity is not a birthright. It is a choice. It also ignores the fact that we are a nation of immigrants with religious freedom. Not everyone is christian Brenda. It's like saying America is white.
There are plenty of peaceful Muslims in America, just as there are peaceful christians. Should we judge all christians by the acts of a violent few?
I agree with DS, but we have no way of knowing what motivates people who join an all volunteer force. I suppose maybe more psychological tests of the recruits would be in order?
I can't find any evidence that this man wasn't an American citizen. Am I missing something?
"Christian is synonymous with American, in general."
No it isn't. Look up the word synonym for a start. For your assertion to be true, all the Christians in Canada, Mexico, Europe, Africa, South America, etc, would have to be Americans. They aren't. Further, there are people in the US who aren't Christians. Are all the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, etc. in the US not Americans? And finally, the US has a Christian majority. That doesn't make it a Christian nation.
"While Muslim is synonymous with Nations that are, well, Muslim overall!"
Most of the same stuff is wrong with this assertion as the previous one.
"But this issue was about America's military; the man was in our military! So that was thrown into the mix. He had no business being there. "
Well, I'd agree, but that has nothing to do with the faith he claims to follow.
"And wouldn't you think that an American would have no business being in the military of, say, Pakistan?"
What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying you've found out that this guy was actually Pakistani and not American after all?
On the contrary, it had EVERYTHING to do with the faith he claims to follow. After he joined the military, he decided he couldn't (or wouldn't) perform his duties because he's Muslim.
Good grief. Our military is probably the FIRST place where people should be inquired of and, if needed, profiled. The other is the Presidency. Or vice versa; I'd call it a tie between those two....
What exactly would you profile regarding a presidential candidate?
You need to take a look at the very long list of patriotic Americans serving this great country that you despise so much who are also Muslim.
"On the contrary, it had EVERYTHING to do with the faith he claims to follow."
H'm. Maybe you have a point. Maybe we should make sure that no Christians are allowed to serve either. After all, we're commanded to love our enemies, and not to kill. Clearly, no true Christian would kill another human being. But sometimes a soldier's job entails killing people. What if they all decided to follow their faith and not kill anyone?
Clearly we can't depend on Christians, who are commanded by God not to kill, and who are admonished by Christ to love their enemies, to perform the duties of a soldier.
I think if you take a look at what they've done in the past, (and continue to do today)your fears about Christians being able to kill will be assuaged. They have always killed, raped, and pillaged with the best of them, the difference is that their violence is sanctioned by God.
Situational morality is a cornerstone of the faith.
"Christian is synonymous with American, in general."
Only to you, Brenda. There are an awful lot of "non-christians" in this country and when you add in the millions and millions that you claim are not christians because they don't believe in the same christianity as you do the number only climbs.
When will you radical christians understand that just because you want it to be so doesn't make the country christians? Our whole ideology is based on the concept that religion doesn't run the country.
"But this issue was about America's military; the man was in our military! So that was thrown into the mix. He had no business being there. And wouldn't you think that an American would have no business being in the military of, say, Pakistan? He would have no business there."
I have to say I agree with Brenda on this concept. It makes little sense to send a fighting soldier into a place where the required task is to kill those who think just like you do. The result would seem to be, well,...see OP.
Thank you for bringing the topic back on track and for this common-sense post! I was starting to feel surrounded by attackers just for standing patriotic ground.
It defies the imagination that Muslims are actively recruited to fight in America's military, especially when most of our wars involve Muslim nations. Of course, denying an enlistment to a Muslim would invoke all kinds of liberal rhetoric and lawsuits. But history never lies -- Rome's legionnaires were attacked from within their ranks by pagan recruits who were actually mercenaries paid by the other side. Today there are anti-U.S. moles serving in our armed forces and are biding their time to use our tactics and weapons against us. Two incidents now at Fort Hood. The first had numerous warning signs that were ignored. The second was averted with hours to spare.
I think the powers-that-be need to stop worrying about liberal lawsuits and use common sense. Like you said, it defies the imagination! It's like the Country's leaders have become weaklings or wackos. They're afraid to even question our top leader's eligibility because of political correctness, and that has led to a decline in National security over the whole Nation.
"I think the powers-that-be need to stop worrying about liberal lawsuits and use common sense."
Yeah, maybe we should round up all the Muslims in the US and put them in internment camps until we win this war on terror thing. It worked during WWII!
I've served in uniform alongside Muslims, and I don't have any qualms with this.
Your comment is ridiculous..
I think a few people here need to enlist before they start flapping their yaps..
Brenda I wrote a hub about this the day he got arrested. Some individuals thought I was being racist by saying that Muslims who hate us shouldn't serve in our military.
Anyone who hates America, shouldn't serve in our military. It doesn't matter what their beliefs are.
rachell, I have read your hub and voted it up.
Did this "Muslim" have 10 toes? Most terrorists do. We should ban anyone with 10 toes from serving in the military.
Rachel, I can't find the specific hub yet. Give me a title?
By the way, just from initially checking out some of your writings, you've gained a new follower. I can't wait to get time to read completely some of your hubs!
Followers of history's most violent religion pointing fingers at the second most violent.
Pretty God damn funny.
"While Muslim is synonymous with Nations that are, well, Muslim overall!"
But there is no synonymous meaning of "Muslim"....
"But this issue was about America's military; the man was in our military! So that was thrown into the mix. He had no business being there."
Any American capable and willing to serve has the ability to serve. I have known Christians who have tried to pull the "C.O." card... Overall, when people have wanted to get out of the military, I have seen them do a wide assortment of things... There are probably upwards of 10,000 servicemembers who are enlisted or commissioned in the armed forces.. If the lunacy that Brenda and others of her twisted ilk were true, there would be much more to talk about than Major Hassan or the soldier focused on in the original posting of this thread...
But, the "onward Christian soldier" brainwashed (including members of my own family) have continued on their deranged way... I remember my grandfather at the pulpit reading from Revelations and "foretelling" the great Jihad.... Of course, "Red China" was going to invade us to....and we were destined to have thermonuclear war with the godless Soviets...
Boogedy Boogedy Boogedy....
Keep pumping up those "needed" defense spending levels and make sure you continue your tithes and donations to the church...and make sure you adjust your tin foil hats before your next dose of indoctrination...
Your attempting to create your own self-fulfilling prophecy:
Brenda, you should be forced to serve in place of the first Muslim-American removed from the military under the type of policy you envision... Ante up...
Good to read apost from someone who actually knows what he is talking about.
Not a problem.
It might take a lotta training for me to be prepared to shoot even the terrorists; but at least I wouldn't be shooting my fellow servicemen.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/f … WcbGNobUEJ
and then the reality:
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/soldiers-a … d=13590030
Having served in the active military, I know that there is a pattern of institutionalized abuse against those considered "outcasts".. Whether because of color (I have seen it), weakness, or some other "oddity" or misstep by someone, there is a mentality that justifies direct and indirect abuse..
Being Muslim is one of those things... I witnessed a guys military career get ruined because he asked to speak to the base psychologist (not to be lumped in with a psychiatrist)...
I have seen it used against women servicemembers who wouldn't "put out"... I watched women get called "sluts" to their faces, and having their covers (hats which must always be worn when in uniform outside) shoved down the pants (front and back inside the underwear) of guys who thought it was funny while targeted girls were out of the room.. Particular guys would get physically assaulted multiple times throughout the day....and it went on and on and on nonstop..getting choked out whenever there was a chance with minimal supervision...man, the things I have seen would make Brenda's "pure Christian heart" faint...
There is a culture of abuse that exists within the armed forces... It is not always wide open to see... Not everyone participates....but the fact that so many will simply stand by and do nothing/shut themselves off to it doesn't help.. I should know.... I was one of those who stood on the sidelines... Like so many others, I was just glad the "gang/mob"-minded didn't target me...
The reality of military life is far more complex than Brenda could even contemplate...
I commend those Muslims who have the courage to accept the responsibilities and risks of armed service, especially those that come from hostile forces within their own ranks..
What you say, mikelong, is probably correct. I too served (1969-71) and saw much worse than that. But your culture of abuse falls under the category of "Discipline" (or lack of). Muslim servicemen gunning down fellow soldiers falls under the heading of "Jihad." And there is a difference. Like the United States, I see our military crumbling from within. We are actively recruiting Muslims who are taught to kill other Muslims. Like it or not, this is becoming a religious war. The "Great Satan" is now fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, and is conducting incursions in Iran, the various stan countries in South Asia, Pakistan, etc. All of these are Muslim nations.
Way to go avoiding a real answer Brenda....but I have learned to expect as much...
Alcohol poses more of a threat to the safety of our men and women in uniform than Muslims ever will..
Check out this article...seems not only Muslim's are responsible for attacks on their fellow soldiers
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2 … -usmi.html
I don't follow links here usually. So I'll stick to the issue at hand (which is more about Islam-loyals in America's military instead of American-loyals in America's military!) Some of y'all like going off onto different tangents instead of pondering the real issue. Sure, there's gonna be some disagreements, even fighting, even crime, among any group of soldiers, just as anywhere else. And it would be great to be able to put a stop to every incident of those. But we know human nature and it's not likely. The point here is that it only makes sense for our military's morale and the security of our Nation to be careful about putting that security in the hands of just anyone whose loyalty and intent is likely to be questionable.
The oaths at military enlistment, and for officers, are as follows, according to what I found on the internet. Any military person is free to post the actual oaths if these aren't the current official ones! I have no reason to believe they aren't the current ones.
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)
That's a form of vetting the candidates for military positions. Or at the very least, it's a form of calling the person to be responsible themselves for making sure they're fit and ready and willing to be American soldiers.
It's obvious that Muslim soldiers are being asked to be loyal to a Nation that's American (not Afghani or Islamic) and Christianity-based. That's obvious from the wording of the oaths. That's a contradiction in itself; and if anyone (soldier or just regular citizen) can't choose a side when necessary, then they have no business holding the title of "American" or "soldier".
"It's obvious that Muslim soldiers are being asked to be loyal to a Nation that's American (not Afghani or Islamic) and Christianity-based. That's obvious from the wording of the oaths."
Only to the most myopic of Christian chauvinists.
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all worship the same God, with the difference being that the Jews don't think Jesus was the Savior, Christians think Jesus was the savior, and Muslims think Jesus was just a prophet, and that Mohammed, who came after Jesus, is a more important prophet.
"and if anyone (soldier or just regular citizen) can't choose a side when necessary, then they have no business holding the title of "American" or "soldier"."
Heh, the religious discrimination you advocate is more un-American than not being a Christian.
Brenda, you speak as a fool.... Note, I didn't say you are one...but, if I took a hubpages poll...
Please don't speak on behalf of the military.. You are embarrassing us...
Why should I care if you're embarrassed?
You're actually embarrassing me and every other patriotic soldier by condoning the situation where supposedly-fellow-American-soldiers KILLED American soldiers because of their divided loyalties, or total lack of loyalty to the American Constitution and their (your) oath of enlistment.
If you're really an American military man, I'd think you'd be embarrassed (not to mention appalled!) at the loss of life of those soldiers at Fort Hood and the recent plot against soldiers, including the fact that Islam's hatred of America is being allowed to be inserted into the very ranks and barracks of the institution that guards the lives of citizens.
It gives one pause to wonder if we can even trust our military now, since the cry for political correctness seems to be overruling the oaths of enlistment. And indeed, every patriotic American citizen should be able to speak on behalf of our military! Because we should be able to trust every man or woman who wears those uniforms.
The "reality of military life" as you referred to it, would be far less complex if common political and patriotic sense was instilled in every soldier, or if every soldier was held to that sense.
I don't think anyone condoned the shooter's actions.
Can you show us where mikelong did so?
He's making excuses for their actions.
There's a difference between reasons and excuses.
In the case of this thread topic, including the Fort Hood terrorist and the recent one, they exhibited mental and emotional conflict between loyalty to America and loyalty to their ethnic background and/or presumed Nationality.
As I've pointed out, when one becomes an American, they should have loyalty to America, not to Islamic Nations and the god of Islam. Yes, the two are different, diametrically opposed, period. And indeed there may be atheists who serve in the military, but it simply goes without saying that most Americans, whether believers or not, were raised knowing the Biblical principles and still believe in the value of the core system of that. Our religious and political and economic systems have a Biblical basis. Even our bankruptcy laws are based on Biblical principles. Other outside influences have no rightful place in America's system of law enforcement nor National security.
Brenda you're not embarrasing me at all. Thanks for speaking with common sense as usual. America needs to wake up!
Heh yourself. ha.
You can dismiss the Constitution and the American loyalty that caused it to be written if you wish. But I won't.
Some people could learn a great lesson from Michelle Malkin on what it means to be an American.
Her background was brought up. Someone referred to her as an Asian. She responded with she's not Asian, she's an American. Now she's a woman who's got her priorities straight.
It does not say "Christian God"....
It does not say "Jesus"....which is the key signifier of "Christianity" is it not?
The God of Islam is the same God of Abraham that the Jews and Christians claim to follow....
You can attempt to usurp the word "Patriot", but that is pure folly...
You have made clear that there is no universal meaning of the word...
Wiccans serve this nation in uniform (I know several)...as do athiests, agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Bahais, Hindus and others...
You can keep spouting ignorance while wrapping yourself in the American flag, but you only show your flawed logic and intellect to the world...
You obviously ignored everything I wrote concerning what I actually witnessed while in uniform...
Which speaks even more to your willed-blindness...
And our founding fathers were not Christian at all. However, the founding fathers of the Confederacy were. Funny coincidence?
I do not condone acts of violence against military members by their brothers and sisters in arms...
However, I will point out that institutionalized mistreatment of those considered "outsiders" or "exploitable" (ethnic minorities, homosexuals, women, the "weak", Muslims, those who seek psychological services) can create the situation seen at Fort Hood...
It is called the self-fulfilling prophecy... I posted numerous articles (which I am sure Brenda ignored...its just who she is) of abuse exacted against Muslims in our military.. There are members of the military who think like Brenda....and they are the problem.. They definitely need to be purged from the ranks.. Bigots have no place in the armed services..
I have shown racial, gender, and other examples of this same stupid mentality of arrogance, superiority, abuse of power and naked aggression...
I watched violence take place amongst members of my Marine unit in Arizona every day... If we had access to weapons and ammunition who knows what could've taken place... But since the daily, several times daily repetition of unwarranted, bigoted violence was never reported on the news...Brenda can live in her delusion of exaggerated and twisted "Muslim threat from within"...
Brenda can quote words in an oath....but they are simply formalities.... Brenda, go and witness the real military world beyond the words printed on a page....and then we can have a real conversation.
Like I said, you're trying to make excuses. More than that, you're blaming other soldiers for the terrorist actions of Muslim soldiers! Unconscienable!
If you witnessed those acts of violence and bigotry as you say, you should've reported them! What the heck!? Instead, you blame others for the murderers' actions!? Does the Marine Corps have a policy of "no tattling" or what?? If someone had tattled about the Fort Hood killer's problems beforehand, maybe he wouldn't have killed your fellow soldiers. HE most certainly "had access to guns". My God! Is this what the military is turning into----liberal activists like the man who sits in the White House??!! It figures!
Reading through this thread......you're what they call a cultural christian? Kind of like that guy from Norway? You're not a christian like one that reads the Bible or anything. I think you guys should really find a different label. You're giving christianity a black eye here.
How does one being a Muslim give them allegiance to a Muslim nation?
If one is a Muslim they are automatically in allegiance with Pakistan?
You continue to make no sense Brenda...
The only way Brenda can continue her line of logic is to ignore the obvious...
Brenda will read this:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/f … WcbGNobUEJ
and say "I told ya so! Those dangerous Muslims"
And then the reality comes to light:
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/soldiers-a … d=13590030
But it's too late for Brenda...because she's already shut her brain down...
No more cognition left for truth in her mind... (It is sad that I have to repost links...it's almost as if Brenda is a child that has to be spoon fed in order to eat)
"He's making excuses" <---Brenda
The nonsensical retort of the brainless...
I'm just telling the truth...
I thought thats what you Chistians were all about.... But it seems that I am doing a far better job of it than they are (in terms of Brenda and her deceitful ilk)...
But, I know that they don't represent Christianity as a whole...
Thank God, Allah, Jeebus for that...
Whatever, mike. You've stooped to the liberal tactic of personally attacking me instead of sticking to the issue at hand. Distraction. A useful tool to further the liberal agenda when it actually works. It doesn't work with a common-sense citizen, however. Not a useful tool for finding a valid way to deal with the problem at hand, which is Islam-loyal soldiers in America's military.
"The liberal tactic".....
No....rather, Brenda continues to roll around in the detritus of delusion....
Instead of "God Blessed" she is "God Blinded"....
Her arrogance, hypocrisy, and shame know no bounds....
Using K9's flawed logic, Japanese, German, and Italian Americans should have never been used to fight in World War II...
Being Muslim does not correlate to allegiance with a foreign nation... That is a completely baseless claim.. The same stupidity was directed at President Kennedy over his Catholic faith and "allegiance" to the Pope over the nation..
Read the articles I posted Brenda....then let us see who is truly attempting to distract...
We have too many self-proclaimed "patriots" who seem to know nothing of what the United States is all about... They see their Christian flag in place of the Stars and Stripes... The cross is not on the flag...it is not held by the eagle that is our national seal, nor is it touted by Lady Liberty in New York harbor... It was not even in the original Pledge of Allegiance...
Religion has no business in our governance...
Mike, I kinda take offense to the "flawed logic" thing. And truly I feel Brenda has a solid point in her OP. How wise is it to knowingly place a potencial objector on your front lines? "Not very" would have to be my answer. Having served my country in a significant time, gives me some experience to fall back on. Honestly, I want to know the person I'm in the trenches with, who has a ready weapon, and is not timid toward engaging, is fighting with the same mind-set as I am. Just not willing to risk friendly fire that may not really be so friendly. Agian, I am only in response to the OP.
BTW, I could not disagree more about your comment regarding Japanese, German, and Italian Americans.
Bigotry is not common sense. There is absolutely no proof that this guy was acting as an agent of any country.
And again...just because people disagree with you does not mean they are attacking you. Even the Christian Science Monitor disagrees with you.
The only patriot I see here is Mike who actually fights for your country.
PS... bigotry does not equal racism...
How do you tell that someone is a potential objector?
What does "liberty and justice for all" mean to you?
This guy was wrong and he was caught, but to turn it around and blame it on all Muslim's is wrong.
I can determine someone is a potencial objector when what they have threatened to harm fellow miltary personel. Isn't this what happened the first go-round at a US base? And isn't it a wiser plan to thwart a similar encounter? A pound of prevention...
You can "feel" what you wish.
I have already been insulted.. Join the club.
What I have said is fact... Prove otherwise...
The upwards of 10,000 currently serving and tens of thousands of past serving American Muslims are ashamed by Brenda, and even yourself...
Being a Jew does not give allegiance to the state of Israel... In fact, there are many Jews who stand against that nation...
Being a Muslim does not make one sympathetic to the Pakistani state or to Syria, or Yemen... To state otherwise is very flawed...regardless how strong the "feelings" of the person making the ridiculous assumption...
The same stupidity, I reiterate, was used towards Kennedy in terms of his ability to serve the U.S. as President...the assertion was stupid then, and it still is..
Having served active duty alongside non-Christians (and being a non-Christian myself) the assertion that America and patriotism, not to mention capability to serve in uniform, is synonymous with Christianity is insulting and wrong...
You can disagree with my WW II comment....but it was just following your logic... If it didn't apply to them it doesn't apply to Muslims...which is the point I am making...
If you can't comprehend the point I am making, then there is some kind of personal issue that you need to resolve...
My loyalty is to my state and nation...regardless of how I view eternity and "salvation"... How many Muslim servicemembers did you know during your time in service K-9?
Several as a matter of fact Mike. And not one made me feel as if I had anything to worry about when in the mix. The belief is not the problem, the action is.
Fault me if you will for acting on the side of prevention, but if any active military personell regardless of faith, heritage, religion, color, or anything else causes me to have reason to consider their actions or speach as a threat to any other person, I am going to stand on the side of caution. Again, it's not the belief it is the action.
Interesting. A misnderstanding is in play here, I misread what Mike said regarding WWII, I read it as oposite his meaning. My apologies.
No problem. I apologize actually for my strong words... I am very passionate when it comes to societal abuse and stigmatization of minority populations, whether religious, ethnic, gender-based or otherwise...
And I stand beside you on these issues. And I respect your passion very much, and understand it deeply. My meaning in this entire thing is that I just couldn't stand to think another round of harm is in the making against our currently serving military personell. If suspect actions are brought by ANY personell, I say take action so reaction will not carry the devistating reality we have already lived. Bummed my words sounded otherwise.
My father was a "C.O." and he never threatened to harm anyone...
The definiton of "C.O." has nothing to do with feelings of antagonism or violence against the military...
In fact, it overwhelmingly is based on non-violent culture and practice established through a religous obligation (like my father's...and he was a Christian) or cultural/philosophical (as in a pacifist)..
Antagonism against the military is something else...and I have seen that in many ways... I knew a guy who threatened to kill himself unless he was discharged...and he showed up at the platoon sergeant's tent with a razor to his wrist...
I had to stand suicide watch over him....
He never sought "C.O." status....he just wanted out...
I have seen people do amazing things when they reached their breaking points...
Hi Woman of Courage, thanks lady.
This is an interesting subject. I wish it weren't so serious, but it is, by its very nature.
Well I gotta go freeze a whole buncha tomatoes and peppers from our garden so I can see my kitchen table again. ha
I will say I do appreciate the service that American soldiers perform! It takes guts and both mental and physical strength and a heart willing to sacrifice to be a true soldier.
So thank you mike long (even if you don't like me!) and K9keystrokes and anyone else here who has faithfully served in America's military; it's comforting to know there are those willing to protect the average citizen to the point of putting their very lives on the line.
Yes this subject is very interesting. Wow, freshly grown tomatoes from the garden is delicious.
I gave away quite a few to the neighbors, and froze 10 bags.
From people I've talked to around here, no one's veggie gardens did very well this year. Maybe we'll have a better one next year....
I wish that were the only type of issue facing Americans today! It just isn't to be, though. Everyone's too interested in what other Nations are doing and what their culture means to them. The American dream seems to be a thing of the past, because so many people don't even know who/what they even are anymore.....
An individual's actions will not lead me to judge the whole group... I think you would agree with this type of thinking...
Therefore, though I witnessed several white Marines beat down a black Marine and harrass him out of service I will not jump against all white Marines... I will not judge others based off their actions..
If I am truly worried about the safety of men and women in uniform I will go after the institutionalized patterns of abuse like those I have mentioned throughout this thread...for they are the real problem...
Have you read my other posts in this "Fort Hood Plot" topic?
If not, I urge you to do so, and then we can see where we agree and disagree..
Don't be a Brenda....she is completely off-base and in fantasy land..
See what happens when people actually discuss things
Thanks Mike, I do agree with you. I think it is a shame the cruel things humans do to one another. I offer you respect and peace in your quest.
Huge Hugs to each of the men and women in uniform; thanks for your service.
"So thank you mike long (even if you don't like me!) and K9keystrokes and anyone else here who has faithfully served in America's military; it's comforting to know there are those willing to protect the average citizen to the point of putting their very lives on the line." <---Brenda
You're welcome... Just realize that I am protecting my fellow men and women servicemembers...as if they were in a hubpages foxhole.. I will not let the reputations of honorable men and women get dragged through the mud just because someone is suspecting their religious faith...
I will stand against those in uniform who abuse others...just like I would never follow an unlawful order...regardless of the rank of the person who issued it...
I will not cover-up the hardship that exists in the military...but I will defend the rights and livelihoods of those who are sacrificing themselves for our protection and betterment....to my last breath..
My thanks to all honorable servicemen still stands.
However, it's apparent that, while you are adamant about your fellow servicemen's names not being "dragged through the mud" as you say (even to the point of posturing excuses for their behavior simply because they wear the uniform, and not reporting their behavior when they do wrong things), you don't mind dragging the average citizens' names through the mud, especially Christians like me because you suspect MY religious Faith! Wow that's just messed-up. Or maybe just naive. And perhaps I've been naive to think that all military people actually go into service with the intent to protect the rights of peons such as I. Hmm...
I know this --- the advocates of putting/keeping soldiers into positions they're not fit to uphold, along with those "soldier" terrorists who shout (or even think) "Allah Akbar!" have succeeded in bringing the battle to American soil right under the nose of the American military. Not just that----right in the military compounds! And caused such distraction through "political correctness" and "tolerance" that it's impossible, apparently, for the military to properly handle the real issue of terrorism even when it comes into its own ranks! That's something that, really, you and every other American soldier should think about. THAT is cause for embarrassment, not to mention the lives that were lost. I don't think a Muslim "soldier" killing a group of other soldiers in a military compound falls under the category of "friendly fire" or "collateral damage"! The enemy's mindframe, if our military isn't very careful in how it handles this mess, will succeed in undermining the whole military without even lifting another literal finger or firing another shot. I hope that institution is stronger than that! A person doesn't have to be enlisted in the military to see what's happening.
"the advocates of putting/keeping soldiers into positions they're not fit to uphold, along with those "soldier" terrorists who shout (or even think) "Allah Akbar!" have succeeded in bringing the battle to American soil right under the nose of the American military."
Muslims and Islam is interwoven with the United States going back to the colonial era....
It doesn't take a researcher with degrees to find the truth:
The connection of Islam to "anti/un-American" you point out only illuminates your bigotry...willful or otherwise...
My words concerning the military are quite clear... I will not sugar coat my experiences.... If honor was displayed, I will shine light on it... Military service is supposed to be honorable and noble... When it does not live up to these expectations I will critique it, as any responsible person should, whether they served or not...
Do you disagree?
You confuse the idea of loyalty with something else... I'm not an Enron-insider type..
I made clear that not all Christians believe what you do.. I went after you personally, not Christians... I don't suspect your faith, I suspect your beliefs towards your common man and society...
Where did I go after "common citizens"? How did I drag them through the mud? If you are trying to paint yourself individually as them, you are mistaken...
It seems you are just trying to attack...for no other reason but display of aggression.... I don't think I would personally consider that quality very Christian, at least in terms of what it is supposed to be..
You have yet to respond to a single article I have cited...and have yet to respond reasonably to anything I have said...
Your actions speak for themselves..
Now I should begin discussing the bigotry that LGBT military members face.. I served with many, I am thinking of one staff nco right now...and she deserved every right and ability that heterosexual Americans have... For example:
A legal union does not carry the same legal rights as official marriage does..
But to tackle this specific aspect of the issue we have to overcome the Brenda syndrome that continues to negatively impact the ability of all Americans to be able to serve their country...
Other nations have already knocked down the ridiculous "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"-like or bans that tradition instilled...
It is too bad that the U.S. has to be a "follower" as opposed to a leader in this frame of liberty...
Let freedom ring...........please...
I don't follow links from this site. The times before that I did, my computer got frozen almost as much as those tomatoes! ha. Otherwise, I would've checked out some of the links. But really, when we're talking common sense, we don't need anything other than that anyway! Are you of the opinion that the average American can't see what's happening in the military? I'm not of that opinion.
Actually, no you shouldn't "begin to discuss the bigotry that LGBT members face", not with me anyway, because that issue has nothing to do with the issue of Muslim terrorists who infiltrate our military. Unless of course you think Muslim is synonymous with homosexuality. And if you think that, then you might as well discuss it with someone else, because I haven't the patience for nonsensical distractions.
And since you reiterated that you "went after" me "personally", I haven't much patience to discuss anything at all with you right now! lol
Let Truth and patriotism ring, please! I did caution you as a soldier about letting liberal distractions sway you from the dilemma at hand in the military, didn't I?! Yep I did.
"The American dream seems to be a thing of the past, because so many people don't even know who/what they even are anymore....."
"Klawonn was once excited to join the military and uphold the tradition of service begun by his father, an Air Force veteran who died when Klawonn was 15.
“I was excited to, I guess, defend America,” he said. “Do that, we call it, hoo-ah-hoo-ah stuff. … It seemed very honorable and admirable. It was something I could be happy about and say, ‘OK, I’ve done something very good.’”
Even with the difficulties he has faced, Klawonn said he doesn’t regret his decision to enlist because he believes in the American Dream.
“The constitutional rights that we have and the freedoms we take for granted are near and dear to my heart,” he said.
(a link I previously posted specifically for Brenda's review...obviously ignored)
It seems we have a clear case of projection...
It appears Brenda is giving a perspective into her own self, as opposed to those she is talking about..
It is in the seemingly insignificant conversations that some of the most telling information is communicated...
This mindset correlates with the type of Christianity she is clinging to...
"Actually, no you shouldn't "begin to discuss the bigotry that LGBT members face", not with me anyway, because that issue has nothing to do with the issue of Muslim terrorists who infiltrate our military. Unless of course you think Muslim is synonymous with homosexuality. And if you think that, then you might as well discuss it with someone else, because I haven't the patience for nonsensical distractions." <---Brenda
Actually it is the same issue in terms of discrimination...
Shall we delve into your beliefs concerning those who are LGBT? You have written profusely in the forums on this topic.....
Your mentality clearly demonstrates why a continued separation of church and state is needed to preserve our nation...
There is no such thing as "common sense" Brenda... You are demonstrating cultural-centric thinking...which correlates with the closemindedness you have openly displayed here..
"And since you reiterated that you "went after" me "personally", I haven't much patience to discuss anything at all with you right now! lol"<---Brenda
You can twist and turn whatever you like... The joke is ultimately on you..whether you like it or not... I don't see anything to laugh about...
"I did caution you as a soldier about letting liberal distractions sway you from the dilemma at hand in the military, didn't I?! Yep I did."<------Brenda
Are the secret band of Brenda-esq going to jump out of the bushes and put me on a plane to a waterboarding table in Egypt or Afghanistan?
Are your cohorts going to Abu Ghraib me?
Your petty, nonsensical behavior speaks louder than any Hubpages action against me could... You could try to get me banned, which would only feed your little ego...
Boo hoo... From the mental age I am seeing expressed here, it seems you are of military age...at least in the army..(if you are older than your early forties I would be very troubled)..
Join up and send us Hubs about your Muslim-ridding crusade...
Uhh apparently you're taking my word of caution wrong!! I don't try to get anyone banned! I don't report anyone anymore; did a few times long ago when someone made personal attacks, but decided it was better to hash things out between each other; and when the attacker gets too personal to get the heck away from 'em!
I was cautioning you personally in reference to the fact that you're a soldier or former soldier.....cautioning you to take an unbiased look at what's happening to the American military, since that's important to you as well as important to all citizens! It's being invaded from the inside out. I thought you'd be able to see that, surely.
So now I'm gonna "get the heck away" from you, hopefully, since you still seem bent on insulting me personally!
I will, however, give your suggestion to join the military some thought. I guess if a Muslim terrorist got accepted, this middle-aged woman with a debilitating illness could get past basic training, ya reckin? Maybe they'll cheat and let me skip basic and make me an instant General. After all, twould be such horrid discrimination if they didn't!!
A soldier who happened to be of the Muslim faith became a concientious objector and was plotting to attack his fellow soldiers...But was stopped before he could do it.
Umm. No. A man who chose to be Islamic was allowed to join the American military (while America's in a battle with Islamic Nations' tendency to cater to terrorists) without anyone including himself taking into account the fact that his loyalties lay with a different Nation than America.
Under your way of looking at things that could be classified as a personal attack...
Not at all. Quoting the saying of burying one's head in sand is simply a way of saying someone's unaware or naive about an issue. It's evidence of the liberal agenda's affect that anyone can't quote traditionally-used quotes anymore without it being considered a personal attack. Sheesh! A Christian could probably say they hate chopped liver and velcro and someone would decide to call it discrimination.
Chopped liver and velcro? Whatever happened to the grape juice and little stale crackers?
lol Ron. Do you like liver and velcro? Actually, I think velcro is a great invention!
Did you know that the inventor of velcro, Abdul Fattah bin Hussein, was fond of chopped liver?
lol I actually went and googled the invention of velcro just now. Seems it was a Swiss mountaineer who thought of it?!
Whether he was fond of chopped liver or not, has no bearing on my distaste for it. I tried a taste once, and that was enough for me. My father used to love liver and onions. If that didn't persuade me to like it, nothing will!
See how you've deftly avoided answering the question, Ron---do you like liver? haha. Now let's talk about beets. I love beets! Do you?
Hey good night; I'm too sleepy to argue....er...discuss anymore.
I donT consider it a personal attack. You have taken statements similar to that as personal attacks...
There may have been a few times when I was a bit paranoid. But usually not.
But after a while of being accused of hatred just for my opinions and specifically God's word....I've probably become a bit desensitized. Or learned to deal with it better. Hopefully.
I don't like liver either...we have one thing in common at least...
Actually, if liver is served with fava beans and a nice Chianti...
fffft fft ffftt ffft
"A man who chose to be Islamic was allowed to join the American military"
Islamic is not a country... Islamic and American are not separate things... Brenda, what are you thinking? Are you?
"at war with Islamic Nations' tendency to cater to terrorists".
Are we at war with Saudi Arabia? Morocco? Egypt?, or Indonesia, the largest Islamic nation on the Earth?
Brenda...please...look at what you are writing with an unbiased mind...
By the way, being a former Marine...not a soldier thank you very much, if I were to be biased ("pro military" or whatever Brenda would imagine "pro military" to be) I would tell you how great it was, and how there was no discrimination or abuse...
I choose to show you what the recruiters leave out...
Your own biases are clear.....your case of projection continues to manifest itself...
Muslim is not a unified term.... Whether one is Pashtu, Persian, Kurd, Turkish, Arab, Uzbek, etc.. is much more important...
There are far more intricacies at work then Brenda and her ilk put forward... They wish to push "Muslim" and "Islam" in an attempt to simplify/over-simplify something they themselves are incapable of understanding, for they lack the knowledge required to discuss these topics....
But, that's our Brenda...and it's quite apparent that we are stuck with her and her wayward views...
. . . And the views of countless millions of others who happen to agree with Brenda. I count myself among Brenda's "ilk." That Western (Christian) nations have such a dominating presence in the (Muslim) Middle East is disturbing. It will be interesting to see what results from the Arab Spring in five years' time.
Thank you; I see I'm in good company!
mike refers to our ilk as "wayward" and "contrary".
He says that like it's a bad thing! ha. I consider it as compliments. But then, I'm a peculiar person anyway (as the Bible refers to me) as you may be too?
I just watched a video clip of Ben Stein's comments on the "Arab Spring". He says it may be more like a "bleak winter". I'm inclined to agree with him. The "freedom" that some of those Nations seem to be gaining is immediately stripped from them as the power is exchanged from one tyrant to a worse one....
I am still in contact with friends who are still in service, enlisted and commissioned... I have yet to hear of a "we are crumbling from within" perspective...
The tension Brenda and foreignpress show I don't see...
I have seen crumbling, in some sense...but it is based on the abuse of alcohol...
Some people, like WOC apparently, like to prejudge the intents of others and use projection in place of intellect...
If you, Woman of Courage, are attempting to judge my purposes, you have failed miserably... But, some people prefer simplistic answers when faced with complex challenges...(like rationally responding to my statements in this thread...at least in Brenda's case)..
There is only one real contrarian here...and Brenda has taken the prize...
Wow, Where do you get the patience from, Mikelong!
Clearly you are "debating" and communicating at a level that far exceeds your opponents comprehension levels. No amount of explanation can wipe the stupid off this thread.
Your points are logical and easily followed. The disagreement clearly comes from a place of willful ignorance that is not likely to be cracked.
I don't live too far from Ft Hood so these incidents seem almost unreal to me. I remember the first time this happened there was some here locally who said not to rush to judgment about the gunman's motives. I believe he was insane and was led by his insanity not necessarily his religion.
But he had been a soldier for a while, hadn't he? And a psychiatrist there to boot!
The results of the choice process of divided loyalty, I'd say, could drive a person to insanity. Similar to Judas Iscariot!
It's a wonder those American soldiers who were ordered to burn Bibles weren't driven to insanity. Our American military's morale must hit all-time lows when carp like that is imposed upon them.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say he had been a soldier awhile.
Well, I would think he would've had a degree in psychiatry or psychology or something, else he wouldn't have been put in that position in the military. And he had been there for a few years. So, if he was eligible and fit to perform his duties when he entered the military, I'm wondering what happened after that. It seems to be the issue of his religion that caused his confusion, leading to the crime he committed.
I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure insanity can manifest itself later in life. I'm not defending him at all, a bullet to his head would be justifiable to me. It would also be justifiable in the Norwegian case also.
Do you think criminals like that should be judged by a military court or regular court system?
Understand I am from Texas, Texans should judge them. Our judgments tend to be final. Now I am off to eat, enjoyed the discussion and have a great rest of your day.
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