Do you believe that Christianity is more than a religion, it is a relationship?
It's wild because the Lord is a friend, father, brother (in the form of Jesus, yet our Lord at the same time..), companion, leader, God, comforter, judge, Savior......the list is long. He's not just a distant acquaintance that makes us worship Him. He wants our Love. Quite a relationship, like none other.
Call it whatever you like, Christianity is still a religion and always will be one.
I don't think the question was whether or not Christianity was a religion or not. That is an established fact.... the question was whether or not it was more of a relationship than a religion.
We who have a personalized relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ do actually know Him. We cannot explain it clearly because we do not have the words for it.... That is why we declare it as our relationship more than our religion.
Perhaps you will one day get to know what we know and then you too can say that it is more of a relationship than a religion.....
I doubt that very much as I don't buy the notion of anyone having a relationship with a god. Sure, children have relationships with invisible friends, but that doesn't mean the invisible friend is actually there.
You have religion, the relationship part is a load of beans.
So you say, but you don't know, Your last statement is a presumption on your part based on the limitation of your knowledge.
From your post you admit that you are making a choice to believe what you choose. Just because you choose to "not buy the notion", doesn't mean that the "notion" is not a reality.
We can counter all day long and get nowhere... If you are interested in some non-biased scientific valid information about Jesus and His resurrection look into Simon Greenleaf
Bogus. Greenleaf starts off with the premise of 4 gospels being true since there is no proof of them being forgeries. Even though he had no original documents to examine nor knew the author's real identities .
One may claim the same for even older documents than the bible possesses with these older documents purporting to name other more diverse and kinder gods which easily predate the bible.
Do you have any proof that the 4 gospels are forgeries?
I don't have any evidence they are not. Do you?
You recommended Greenleaf as some sort of evidence backing up your opinion. His assuming the books and unknown authors were factual negated the rest of his so-called examination of the works. I could do the same for much earlier gods, but my assumptions would be no more based on truth than those of Greenleaf.
This is another example of religious followers willingly accepting vague and often slanted opinions to make themselves feel better about their beliefs.
You brought it up... not I. I don't need proof, you do.. (You know, you are not very good at this)
I told you we could go back and forth on this all day and get nowhere. You are established in what you think and, I am established in what I believe.
It doesn't matter what you say, what you do or what you believe. Nobody cares either way.
So, your next counter will be an attempt to insult me... go ahead. It won't mean a thing and it won't change anything. I'll just leave you with this, Jesus loves you....
"We can counter all day long and get nowhere... If you are interested in some non-biased scientific valid information about Jesus and His resurrection look into Simon Greenleaf"
Shame on you Mr. Christian. The above quote came from you and I indicated where Greenleaf started off with a false premise.
Wrong again honey pie. You are not established in your belief, but simply indoctrinated into it. Probably since a young age like most fundamentalist cult members.
And now you pretend to speak for those other than yourself. Who exactly gave you permission to express the thought of others here? Your answer will tell a lot about your though processes. No surprises I'll wager.
There's no need for me to insult you dude, you manage that with no help from me. And if Jesus loves you, I don't want his type of love for me. I don't trust his discretion.
That was pretty good... not an irate, irrational attack, excellent, except for that subtle insult at the end about the discretion of Jesus - I caught it.
If you think Greenleaf started with a faulty premise, then o.k. I can't fight with you about that... I thought his conclusions might interest you...but if not, that's fine.
Fact remains, Jesus is Lord. I take the liberty to speak for all who agree with me and if you choose to reject God's love that is on you. I am established in the faith, and, I happy about it.
You didn't address my assumption about your indoctrination into the cult you belong to. Was I correct or not?
If my final statement was received as an insult to you then you do not understand my point of view. I honestly do not have any desire to worship any deity which chooses people of your viewpoint and indoctrination to spread the word for him/her/it.
Now if the deity instead chose those with a good grasp of reality, scientific knowledge, an open mind, and not indoctrinated at a young age to be afraid to question obvious delusions, I would have a little more respect for his spokespersons.
But unfortunately, this is the exception rather than the norm, as indicated by your using Greenleaf to back up your beliefs.
"Fact remains, Jesus is Lord. I take the liberty to speak for all who agree with me and if you choose to reject God's love that is on you. I am established in the faith, and, I happy about it."
The above quote from your last post is another such example of what YOU consider a fact. There is nothing whatsoever to prove it is a fact other than your opinion on the matter. No matter how much you want it to be a fact, it isn't.
This is a real fact-To date, there is no factual evidence to show there was ever a man named Jesus Christ who died and came back to life a few days later. Even your own ancient novel will tell you the supposed Messiah did not fit the description the OT prophets gave.
You do indeed take great liberties in speaking for the unknown "all who agree with you" and in telling me if I reject your god's love ( I assume you include impregnating 13 year old betrothed virgins and drowning almost every human being and creature on the planet, in this type of love) it will be on me.
But that's okay with me too. I would not expect you to believe in my invisible supernatural being, nor predict ill fortune for you if you do not share my delusions. You, on the other hand, seem quite happy to appear self-righteous as do most of your cult.
I remain unscathed... You are extremely adamant and haven't studied enough..So, our conversation continues to go around and around, and around and around, an endless circle with no end in sight. And, the only circle I am committed to defend is the circle that is represented by the wedding ring...
I am aware that I appear to be self- righteous, [actually, my righteousness in not of me but of God], most people who are correct in their conclusions have that appearance.
Whatever atrocities have been committed by Christians or in the name of God have nothing to do with God's love for you. The atrocities are wrong and those who commit them are wrong. What can we do about the past?
Should we renounce an economic system because it cut its teeth on the backs of the Chinese, or the African? It is the same thing to renounce the creator because His creation is a little crazy.
The prob Bob is that we spend too much time looking at the followers and not following the leader....
Look, forget about me and what I stand for and try Jesus for yourself. I dare you to seriously ask God to show Himself if He in fact does exist. Ask Him, tell Him what you think... I promise, He will not be intimidated.
He will show Himself.... For real....
Wow, you are even more frightened than most of your cult, Leslie. The indoctrination question must have really hit close to home, huh?
No thanks, I have observed too many otherwise intelligent people who believe in invisible deities in my life to wish to emulate them. Like you, they shy away from questions which make them think for themselves.
Using your god as an excuse for your behavior is typical of your ilk. The next time Jesus shows himself to you, how about taking a photo for me. Thanks.
And don't bother answering my twice asked question, Leslie. I already knew the answer anyway.
That's like saying marriage is nothing more than a piece of paper.
DJ do tell me you are not claiming that christianity is not a religion?
The relationship is real. Any and all things beyond this, is what religion is made of.
In your mind it may be real, Jerami. The same as the other ancient people had a relationship with Baal, Jupiter, Horus, or any other imagined god. No difference in their relationship and yours. Do you accept this, or is your god different somehow?
I don't know about the god being different or not!
Maybe it is all ME, Maybe I'm different?
Randy, Are You diferent?
I suppose so, Jerami. I don't hear any voices from omnipotent invisible deities wanting to possess my soul in heaven for eternity. I also don't feel a need to believe things which there is absolutely no evidence for.
I also don't believe stuff in an old plagiarized book just because some preacher tells me I should.
Wait a minute...maybe I'm not so strange after all!
Maybe you arn't ?.
I think that you know a little about what I think.... maybe enough to know I agree with you a little bit on some things but not ALL.
Sure Jerami, just not on what constitutes solid evidence.
Stand your ground... be not swayed. Jesus is Lord!
LeslieAdrienne thank you for your support.
I do know that Jesus is Lord! And I do stand my ground for what I believe. There are some things that the atheist in here are saying that I do agree with, and much that is totally wrong.
I am a combination of being a pretorist/historist for very few of the reasons that they use for their rasoning.
In my opinion, every one gets carried away with interpretational skills even preterest and historists.
Thus missing the most important part.
I myself have never meet a historist or a pretorist, Therefore my belifes ate mine alone.
It seems as though 99.9 % of the worlds population is either Futurists and Atheist or Hindu.
Sometimes I feel like I am standing on the fence that separates the people that are throwing rocks at each other.
99.9 % o the world disagrees with my beliefs.
But I am OK with that. A lonley voice crying out from the wilderness.
That's great, so is the definition of religion, which is what you have.
My experience has allowed me to say that Christianity is a relationship and not just a religion.
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