Is Eve responsible for Adam's demise or simply as accessory before the fact?, i want to know with Genesis 3? (Please explain me for while )
According to what I read in the Bible, Adam and Eve are both equally responsible. ...There are places in the Bible that seem to "blame" Adam mostly; then there are places in the Bible that seem to "blame" Eve mostly. I think that's God's way of making both take individual responsibility, making both genders understand that each person has a choice to make. It also illustrates the sin in each heart which can keep couples from being "one"...
Eve and Adam decided they didn't want to be victims no more of satan and decided they both took part in it, and decided to love each other the way God intended, chopped the snake up, hung him from the same tree, and said no more sin. He's dead! lmao! Have a sense of humor today! Sorry! lol
"Eve was deceived but Adam 'sinned'".
Adam, then, would be responsible.
1st created; leader of the family; ruler of the world.
Eve (meaning of a man but not as a man ) was a 'helper' not an equal.
--according to the text at least.
Nice word back-flip to misread the text
--according to your interpretation at least
The Bible says the opposite---that Eve, being deceived, was in the transgression. I haven't quite figured that out yet.
But as said before, other passages place blame and punishment on both of them.
Not as likely to be true as the Jack and Jill story though! At least I can see a pail of water and a hill.
Taking out a rib and making a woman from it? Much harder than fetching water.
LOL! Compairing Adam and Eve to Jack and Jill? When you think about it, the only difference is that a talking snake,ooops! I mean serpent, was substitued for a pail of water.
I see the scene through the eyes of the three stooges.
Which of the four are you talking about? Or are you using a "split" personality to channel all of them at one time?
Both were responsible for each others demise
If we look at this from way we should, since Eve was created as a part of Adam taken from one of His ribs, then Adam and Eve are equally responsible. Eve was created so that the man Adam would not be alone and eve was created as a part of Adam bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh.
Eve was lied to and tricked by the "serpent" satan into eating of the fruit of the tree, then she approaches Adam. Adam could have chosen not to taste of that fruit and then only Eve would be guilty of disobeying God but Adam listened to Eve and did as she did.
Adam and Eve were not the first human being on this planet; man got evolved; Adam was the first person with whom the Creator God talked face to face or directly.
The bible story of Adam and Eve is clearly Eve taking the first step and dragging Adam into it - the purpose of the story is crystal clear, it is to explain why women are inferior to men; how women are naturally sinful and lead men into sin. I am all for the biblical interpretation in this instance and consider that the original result of this teaching to be correct. Women should not be educated, should not be allowed to own anything and should do only what their husband/owners tell them to do.
haha recommend1. Did you forget to post a winky smiley or a rolleyes after your post?
Absolutely not !! I would go further and support full burkah for women to stop them enticing men over to their sinful ways !!
hmm... that sounds a lot like Adam's initial attitude.....he tried to put the blame off onto Eve when God asked him about eating from the banned tree. Guess what God did?----He banned BOTH Adam and Eve from the Garden and punished them both in other ways too.
So you reject the storyline that it was Eve who did all the negotiating with the snake and then tempted Adam ? As I recall the story, Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the snake. So I repeat, women are the instigators of the original sin and should be chained up in the kitchen where they can do less harm !
Personally (and maybe even Biblically?!) I think.......Adam should've provided Eve with a kitchen that didn't have snakes.
(And I'm jesting a bit, because you seem to be joking.)
But the Bible does indicate that the man is supposed to be the "covering" for the wife. Woman is supposed to be submissive, yes; but the husband is supposed to first love his wife and treat her right; plus, (and actually foremost) he is supposed to be a Godly leader of her and any other family members.
If you read the Bible closely, it sounds like Adam was right there when the serpent tempted Eve. Why didn't he talk her out of it or stop her? Then he ate of the fruit, no questions asked. I don't think women are any more sinful than men.
No - not in any of the versions is Adam 'there' she goes off on her own and gets talked into it.
And any good husband would share his wife's problems - what was he to do, let her get kicked out of the garden on her own ?????
Definately it was Randy Goodwin's fault first, then Eve caused the mischief and Adam had to go along with it like any good husband would ! So this means that women should be subject to men, safest kept in the kitchen and if allowed out they should maybe be covered head to toe in a Burkah to prevent them causing more mischief by tempting other hard working men into more mischief !!!!
I was definitely part to blame for some of it. All the while God was telling Eve she couldn't eat that specific fruit he was giving me the old "you know what's gonna happen next" wink and crossed fingers behind his back. That Yahweh, you can never take what he says seriously!
Ya,I bet the first thing Adam said when he saw Eve naked was"Stand Back Eve,I don't know how big this Bananas gonna Get"!Ops...thought you said banana...So sorry...
I don't think so. Man was formed from the dust. cold. hard. impartial dust.
woman was created from flesh, soft, warm, full of feelings.
There's a definite distinction between the two materials.
Eve contemplated for quite some time the path she was taking and adam just ended up going along for the ride.
but God blamed adam and Paul backed this up by saying "for by one man, sin entered".
But we all know by eves answer, she was already ruling the roost.
God didn't 'blame' anyone - he knew it was Eve and he dumped them both out of the garden.
Paul re-wrote the whole thing with no knowledge of the actual events, and without the approval or recognition of the apostles who were charged with building christianity - and Paul sold it to you suckers with all the bigotry and duality that christians so love.
And as for christian women being more liberated - you have to be joking, from these very forums we have christian men telling us that they are the master and are due their sex on sundays no argument, and the christian women seem to agree - this is not liberation it is subjugation.
OMG, you kill me!
Let's re-word the creation materials a little:
Adam was created from the dust that was perhaps 130 degrees (in the african plains). It is soft (dust always is) and can be molded into whatever you want. It can contain lots and lots of different elements, making it a good material to form things out of.
Eve was created from a bone from Adam (NOT flesh); much cooler (98.5 degrees), hard and without any more feelings than anything else without a brain. Much harder to work with (almost pure calcium) it obviously produced an inferior product without an understanding of how to behave in the face of temptation.
Does this not make more sense than putting your own feelings into it and making it sound "right" to give the story more appeal?
Its not about who's to blame...The main point of the story is for you to realize that we all are going to be faced with choices our whole life. Your job is not to let anyone or thing infulence you to turning away from God. If you sin for the sake of pleasing someone of just pleasing yourself, you are going to be held reponsible for your actions. "Who are you to please, man or God."
I disagree - the story clearly places the blame on woman and so woman should be kept under strict control of man to control her evil ways. You are making some extended interpretation of your own making, speaking for your god as it were. Very naughty and likely to attract thunderbolts !
So - where is the torrent of scripture that re-represents gods word in this matter ? Can I take it that christians concur that the Adam and Eve story squarely places woman in a position subject to man ?
The Bible says that Eve was deceived. Adam was not deceived and he ate the fruit knowing that it would bring death. If you read the story carefully, you will also notice that their eyes were not opened until after Adam ate the fruit.
I blame Adam. He was given dominion over all the earth. That pretty much left him in charge. He should have kicked Satan outa the garden. She needed protecting from the louse. And to carry this on further...Adam made the choice to partake too. She didn't twist his arm. She was suckered by Satans lies but then Adam who should have been the one in charge let her talk him into to trying the fruit.
I blame the snake. Then I blame God for creating the damn tree. (I also blame God for creating the snake) And if God would have stuck with his original design, Lilith would have shoved the apple up the snake's arse and been done with it.
But more importantly, I want to know why in all the paintings of Adam and Eve, they both have navels.
You want to know a lot of things don't you?
I had a pet snake for a while, he was a very nice person! The bible gives snakes a bad rap
You are preaching to the choir
I love snakes. I've had quite a few and would love to have another one. My husband is a p***y about them though.
Start him off with a lizard. I wish I had kept more snakes..... I was outvoted by most of my family on that one.
We have some beautiful snakes here, many dangerous, but mostly to people who know nothing about them.
When I walk in the bush in snake country I strike the ground firmly with my heel every few yards, to let my snake friends know that a big clumsy stupid human is coming who may stand on him or her, or stomp on their babies.
I just came back from the park where the birds are all ground and air feeding, mating, squabbling a little and enjoying the abundance of food in the early morning.
No snakes in the grass yet. It's too cold, and we only see a few in the city these days even at the height of summer.
I have been bitten twice in my life, once by a red-belly brown, and once by a tiger snake, who attacked me through the open door of the log truck I was driving. I did not hurt either snake.
The tigers get pretty stroppy at the height of their season, and the brown snake got a fright when he was behind me and I moved quickly, so he struck me in the leg. No big deal, I only used the anti-venom for one bite, as I was 11 at the time and he got a fair bit of venom in with a brilliant strike,
I need to go bush again soon... I miss the friends of my childhood.
The way it is said in the NIV, the worldwide accepted version, is that he was not there, and was convinced be Eve. That, along with his lack of trust in God's word brought him to take a bite of the apple. Women are most definetly more sinful. We got cursed with our menstrual cycle because of it, while men were cursed to work the land. Big difference. Read the Bible sometimes if you have questions.
You know, it's easy to sit back and talk about what should have happened but I do wonder at times if any of us were put in that same position would we really have done any better?
None of the women would - that is for sure, devils spawn the lot of them. They should be kept in the house doing useful work under the strict control of a man.
women are more liberated in christianity than any other religion
You really don't know ANYTHING AT ALL about comparative theology at do you?
Plenty of religions past and present where women ruled the roost, religiously speaking.
Christian women liberated? Pull the other one, I'll borrow bells for it.
@ R1...maybe in the 'olden days'...yor reeeelly, reeeally, old right?...morning' or should say evenin'....
They both got fooled, Satan fooled Eve into doing it and she convinced Adam...........wow I bet she nagged the hell out of him That story my friend will never end! sighs!
@ Barbara Kay: "Talk her out of it"? Holy........Can a man really talk a woman out of anything? But she can definitely nag/seduce him into anything.
So take it easy everybody whats done is done!
To some extent you can say, as Eve requested Adam to took the forbidden fruit from the tree.
I rely on a more common Jewish interpretation: man wasn't "ready." (The concept of original sin, and something you need salvation for, doesn't exist in Judaism)
Adam and Eve were not developmentally ready to accept the Garden of Eden; that they weren't ready to shed their clothes is a metaphor.
This theme was explored in later stories in the Torah: a believing Abraham wasn't enough to prevent his descendants from acting terrible, so belief wasn't enough. Wiping out everyone except Noah, a decent man, wasn't enough since his descendants were bad, too. Bloodlines weren't enough.
That's why Torah spelled out very, very specific instructions governing behavior. That's what you do with little children, right? Don't cross the street. Don't touch that. Don't eat that. Etc etc etc.
In case anyone here is under any misapprehension I started in on this thread very tongue in cheek - but the link to christian (bad) behaviour was too good to let it go past.
I am all in favour of womens rights everywhere in accordance with the society they are in. And I do not think anyone outside that society has the right to criticise, show example is ok, but then we would have to be in a poistion to throw that first stone. Goodnight and play nice
On one hand I'm glad you made this statement however on the other hand I feel there are those males out their who really do share that stereotypical view.
I knew that, R1! But don't you think giving them the vote was a little much
Besides, the "snake" was merely a metaphor, right?
Giving them the vote is what started all the confusion in politics !
I do not think it is very nice of you to insinuate that snakes are metaphor, as far as I know they rarely have deviant tendencies and are very comfortable with their sexuality. That is a very metaphoraphobic christian perspective on life and is beneath comment.
Snakes in ancient times (before they got the christian bad rap) represented knowledge in every civilization - that is why they are on the medical sign. The 'snakes' that somebody is credited with clearing out of Ireland were the Druids who carried all the knowledge, were the teachers, doctors and king-makers - and they all converted to christianity. That would have been the real christianity before the Pauline desecration of a bible with its rich political bishops took over.
I don't see what's the big deal here! Man apparently can listen to an invisible GOD. Why can't Woman listen to an innocent, silly snake??? Beats me!
Plus... who created the snake? Whose idea was the snake? Really?!
Could it be that we created the "serpent" -- the sense of entitlement to do whatever we want to do? Perhaps this was before Homo sapiens came into the picture -- when things were still only on a spiritual level.
"Snake" or "serpent" may merely have been symbolic for ego.
There wasn't any trouble in the garden of eden until a woman came by! I guess that's why I likes them so much!
Each person is responsible for their own acts. Eve did badly, but so did Adam. It doesn't matter who did it first or who convinced whom.
It seems possible to me that Genesis 2 and 3 were not talking about a physical place any more than heaven is a physical place. Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is within each of us. That's a spiritual "non-place."
In fact, when God said that Adam would die on the day he ate of the forbidden fruit, he wasn't talking literal, physical death. The whole concept of "nakedness" in the garden and awareness of one's nakedness may have been merely a metaphor for mortal dichotomy -- pride-guilt, just as the tree was good-evil.
Perhaps only later did physical man (Homo sapiens or "dust") come into existence. And perhaps the sequence in Genesis 1-5 is not literally accurate; perhaps it wasn't meant to be a literal sequence.
We think of Adam as the guy -- the head of the clan -- the master of his home. But if you read Genesis 5:2, you see that Adam was also a "they" and that they were both male and female. "Adam" in Genesis 5 is the entirety of humanity -- the entire tribe, giving birth to new tribes. Perhaps that's what the seemingly outrageous longevity of the early patriarchs was all about.
But going back to Genesis 1:26, we find that man was also (earlier?) created in God's image -- baby gods. So, we might have man as a composite being -- immortal spirit wrapped in Homo sapiens flesh, and using ego and the brain for conscious identity, instead of using their true selves -- the sleeping immortal within.
Could this all mean that we, individually, were Adam and Eve in the Garden of Heaven? If so, then the whole idea of "original" sin takes on an entirely new meaning. Not some hand-me-down burden of guilt. That sin may merely have been us closing our spiritual eyes and looking through the physical glass darkly.
I think everyone here is aware of this sunday school style interpretation of the bible. The thread is specifically a 'wind up' to tease the christian bible interpreters out to admit that the Adam and Eve story is clearly about making woman second to man. No prevarication, interpretation or personal word twiddling - plain out and out written in black and white - woman was created as a playmate for Adam, then she screwed up and both of them thrown out of the garden where Adam was given a good talking to by god and he then interpreted that to Eve and has been in god-given control over woman ever since.
And if one believes the bible to be the word of God, then this is true as it says in Gen 3:16 (KJV)
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
And in which part of the bible does it say...
And thy children and thy wife will drive you crazy for beign the dad of the household?
I'm pretty sure God was thinking it... What? Did you think MAN would get away with such little penance?
A wife of noble character is her husband’s crown,
but a disgraceful wife is like decay in his bones.
The wise woman builds her house,
but with her own hands the foolish one tears hers down.
Better a dry crust with peace and quiet
than a house full of feasting,a with strife.
Better to live on a corner of the roof
than share a house with a quarrelsome wife.
Better to live in a desert
than with a quarrelsome and ill-tempered wife.
Just a few.
I would hazard a guess that Eve was driving Adam nuts with her uncontrolable chattering long before God stepped forward.
It does not refer to woman as a plaything anywhere. Please!
This is one of those things that me (liberal Unitarian) and hubby (ultra conservative bible thumper) had difficulties with. Finally, we have agreed to respect his often literal interpretation of the Bible within our marriage by agreeing that I will be subservient to him... as long as he never tells me to do anything. Thus our marriage is preserved, my sensibilities aren't violated, and he gets to remain in obedience of his religion.
In short, if you are a Christian male, don't be an ass to your wife and she won't be "a quarrelsome and ill-tempered wife".
Here is what REALLY HAPPENED!
I've linked this before but in case you've never seen it, here it goes... ENJOY!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKAW96N- … 59EA603876
Scratching head in bewilderment..... I cannot believe that in this, the 21st century, so-called 'intelligent' human beings believe that a woman was made from the rib of a man. Oh but I forgot, things were different back then. snakes could talk!
Adam or Eve never actually existed, but are simply an allegory to explain man's origins. The reason it was Eve who tempted Adam, is because in a patriarchal society, men choose not to take any blame upon themselves, and prefer to blame women for everything that is wrong in the world. As men have traditionally made all the rules throughout history, it seemed much easier to blame women than for men to own up to the things that they do wrong.
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