Why do people have to do good deeds, but god doesn't have to?

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LewSethicsposted 13 years ago
We are taught from childhood to behave well and do good things without thought of compensation, but all god does is promise not to burn the hell out of us if we do absolutely everything he says, and do it the way he says it, because it's not enough to just do it, you have to bleed in your heart for the love of god, something like big brother in 1984, where they torture you until you believe what they tell you to believe before they kill you. Even if you love god you are going to hell because adam and eve took care of that for us, eh?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Notice that not a single person in the world does what their god tells them to do.
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  LewSethicsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I thought going around making non believers miserable... never mind.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You haven't met every single person in the world, so you can't say that with any assurance.
  
  Just saying... (thinking in absolutes is dangerous)
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You're right, there might be one.
  
  But, isn't that what religion is all about? Absolutes?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LMAO, so if you can't beat them join them?
  
  Come on over to the dark side honey... we have cookies.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Gingerbread? Toll House? I'm in!
  
  So, what it is again I'm supposed to believe?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whatever kind you want, it's about time for me to start baking for the holidays anyway.
  
  I'd try to convert you to my religion, but you would REALLY hate being surrounded by all faiths. You wouldn't know who to argue with first
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How about I start with the ones you argue with?
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm equal opportunity there...
  
  Any one who claims that All_____ are _____ will get an argument out of me. Be it all Muslims are terrorists, all Christians are idiots, or all atheists are going to burn in hell.
  
  I also don't like You can't _______ because my personal beliefs say you shouldn't. Be it you can't get married because my personal beliefs say gays shouldn't marry or You can't get an abortion because my religion says you shouldn't.
  
  I am really intolerant of intolerance. Otherwise, I don't particularly care if you bugger goats (if the goat doesn't mind) and pray to a piece of cabbage. I do like debate though... it stimulates my mind.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Love that one.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well said. The world needs more of that attitude.
  
  Although the goats may not agree...
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  LewSethicsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  People that bugger goats need tp be jailed. People that worship cabbage need to be institutiponalized. How tolerant you are toward those we need to shun.
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  LewSethicsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  institutionalized
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I know right... there are so many times that I sit and flog myself for it too. If only I could spend more of my time worrying about what everyone else was doing and telling MORE people that I don't know how right I am and how wrong they were... Think of how much happier I could be.
  
  Of course I should care about what everyone else is doing and spend my time convincing them they are wrong. I am quite remiss in my civic duties in that department. I guess I am just too busy having a life.
  
  Thank you for showing me the errors of my way... I will stop watching Carebears with my daughter right now and go picket a church.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Ohhhh all those hours I put in watching Thomas the Tank Engine and countless familiar storybooks all in vain.
  
  But surely my faithful attendance at PTA meetings ,Sports fundraisers,bake sales,school concerts,scout camps and endless 'helps' all in the name of my child and someone elses child, swosh ,glug down the drain-wasted caring support.
  
  I left out the clunker car and worn carpet so junior could make it to a better college...
  
  All this time,I could have been screaming my lungs out and plotting mischievous distruction on unsuspecting civilians hmm..
  I could have lead my kids by example and shown them how real love really works huh?
  And if they look at you in dismay ,scream a lil louder...any attentions is attention -right?
  
  Why by the time they get to be open,informed adults they will know more than me and definately tons more than God.
  
  Now why didnt I think of that 25 yrs ago..
  
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I had actually hoped the Thomas thing would pass me by on Lily. After three boys I was sure I could finally put away trucks and trains in exchange for pink stuff... (I had mixed feelings about this since I'm really not a "pink" kinda chick) but NOOOOO.... Miss Lily is all about the boy stuff. I think big brothers' influence might have something to do with it.
  
  But I'm glad I can finally put all of that stuff away... Lily's new hobby being making picket signs for all religions and sciences. I figure we'll alternate belief systems... Should we do it daily or weekly?
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Alternate-weeks maybe.
  Obviously we wont need to do any research or outreach in any practical form.
  
  So, a list maybe on all the things that WE INSIST are from God, re-word the book of Corinthians to just mean us and hey we gotta plan.
  
  Craigslist for a megaphone and strong granny boots.
  
  OOOOOOaaaa...
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You guys with a megaphone is just downright scary!
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey it aint me wearing horns on the other thread
  
  (Was tongue in cheek to an earlier post) scroll back a bit
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The dreaded GreekOne has a good sense of humour.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Extremely witty.. and cant ya just imagine some feathers being ruffled
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The man is a pro at ruffling feathers, he should work in the poultry business somewhere in the feather ruffling department.
  I'm sure they have one.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He can be our nominated HP's feather ruffler
  Tad cocky maybe?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  or trying to feather his own nest?
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ........Birds of a feather -
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  Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Although an atheist, I would never picket a church. Every individual has their right to a belief/ or their belief, I have no problem with that. The only time I have a problem is when an individual tells me what I should believe, what others should believe. For example, my 14 year old daughter was approached by a religious group, I'm not sure which one- she doesn't know, on her way home from school. They asked her who her idol was, then told her it should be her parents. This angered me, I don't tell my daughter how to think, what she should believe. How dare someone else try. And, what an assumption, not all parents are good parents, not all kids have parents. Thankfully though, there are people like yourself and EK. You take your beliefs, and make sure that they equate with something good.
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  Angela Morganposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with being intolerant of intolerance. Have faith in what you believe in but allow me to have faith in what I believe in. Who is to say who is right or wrong until we finally die?
  
  To me anything and everything can and does exist in one form or another. Our mere thoughts can create new universes. For every choice that comes our way there are that many more parallel universes and time lines.
  
  It is not my place to say what does or does not exist. I cannot base my faith and beliefs just on what I see with my eyes because I know my perspective doesn't allow me to see beyond the horizon and whatever obstacles may be blocking my vision.
  
  It is those who deal in absolutes that I must question. For a Christian to say that their's is the only God or for an Atheist to say God doesn't exist, I must ask why?
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  tirelesstravelerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Completely agree that debate stimulates the mind. But even the most tolerant of us respond with absolute rage when someone robs and beat us. Without being absolutely sure that air planes can fly you wouldn't get on one. Something in life has to be absolute or all you have is quicksand. Living in quicksand gives you a continuous sinking feeling.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not the Christianity I know ?
  
  I mean they/we/me are humans ( believe it or not) and Im darn sure we are all as different as apples and bananas
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  tirelesstravelerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Religious absolutes are legalistic. God's absolutes are worth looking into.
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  Virgil Newsomeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have everything all wrong my friend. If a ship was to start sinking on the sea, should someone send out lifeboats to try and rescue as many as possible? Of course someone should go out and rescue them. There is no doubt the ship will sink. The grace of God saves those who are on the sinking ship.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are mistaking the sinking ship to be a ship of people who are trying to avoid being told what to do by you and your God.
  
  If God wants to save people, let Him do it, not you.
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  Virgil Newsomeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  He is the one who saves. You mistake me for God when I have given no indication that I am He.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But you know exactly who God is and what He wants, nevertheless?!
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The ship is sinking, it doesn't matter who is in it, but it matters how they react to it. If they react favorably the lifeboat is already in place to save, but if they react wrongly the recompense of that action is in place also.
  God has already saved, he Has done all the work and will do whatever further work needs to be done.
  All that's needed is some measure of belief.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The only ship I see sinking is your belief system. In fact, it sank long ago along with other myths but you're still clinging to the masthead, and its underwater.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  how clever
  but inaccurate
  your opinion and thanks so much for sharing it, is also sinking. You think there are no more people believing in Christianity, the theology schools are empty and the bibles are not selling and dust is mounting in the footsteps of Christians. How naive is that? Your opinion might be of more value if it contained an ingredient called thought. In my opinion what you see is what you want to see and you, without consideration hurried type some crap to make yourself feel good, but the goodness, doesn't last very long does it?
  Christianity is very much alive and doing well and thanks to people like you who post such blatantly unfounded criticisms and weak attacks, faith in God is enhanced.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Try reading reports rather than showing ignorance.
  
  "The 1990s was the decade when the 'secular boom occurred - each year 1.3 million adult Americans joined the ranks of the Nones."
  
  http://commons.trincoll.edu/aris/public … ry-report/
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's interesting but its a survey
  
  you should read this:
  http://commons.trincoll.edu/aris/survey … thodology/
  
  and of course i live in canada. We have new members at our church. Other churches show a steady number if not more attending, of course this is not equal to the amount of people born every day.... think on that for a while.
  
  Ignorance lol.
  need a bandage for that head wound?
  
  Its amazing what you people put your faith in
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "With Christianity having once been central and integral to Canadian culture and daily life, it has been recently suggested that Canada has come to enter a post-Christian or secular state, where practice of the religion has "moved to the margins of public life", and irreligion is on the rise."
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Canada
  
  You said it.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  nice link. Thanks.
  Although surveys are just that, surveys, i am still not impressed with them.
  
  I also said:
  "You think there are no more people believing in Christianity, the theology schools are empty and the bibles are not selling and dust is mounting in the footsteps of Christians"
  "We have new members at our church. Other churches show a steady number if not more attending"
  And you did not read the methodology link i mentioned to you.
  
  you did not answer my post, you just shot another survey at me and really your post added nothing of value.
  Think about what you are responding too please. I know it makes you angry and i can overlook that you are a troubled man but only so often.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! The fact that you aren't impressed with data being presented to you that clearly refutes your personal beliefs is just par for the course.
  
  Odd, that would also contradict my laughing smilies. Perhaps. your computer is upside down?
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  its interesting data but certainly not accurate, surveys are guesses at best. Sure there are people interviewed but this sort of thing doesn't interest you either. Growing population always has an impact on surveys. If there were 18000 christians compared to 50000 unsaved next year there would be 18300 christians but 51000 in population just due to births. Little equation breakers like this are numerous.
  The link doesn't refute my personal beliefs at all it did show a little light on other areas but as my own survey showed the results are different but blow that up over a huge scale and the discrepancies inflate sorta like the sun and the earths axis - tilt the earth 4 inches and it doesn't seem like a big change but then consider the sun, 93million miles away and that 4 inches means a huge difference.
  And you still haven't mentioned any credence to what i posted in the first post, this may make your first sentence apply to you more than me.
  
  Don't make this discussion a waste of time by avoiding issues with opinions that are errant.
  
  Just another side point. Going into my bank and asking how many staff are christian, might get me a 1 percent yes but when i go to the food bank the results are opposite. In the survey if you had bothered to read the methodology link you would see that out of 50000 people those numbers were contrived from.
  
  I know you like stuff that represents your point of view and are adamantly against any points that stuff your views into football sized bootable objects and kicks the goal to win the game but lets face it, your short one liners, personal criticisms and dubious surveys are signs of a ship that is sinking. Need a smiley?
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But if you're sure the ship will sink and the passengers want to keep bailing and make it to shore? What then? Do you take them off by force or leave then to their own devices?
  
  Therein lies the rub; the passengers do not accept your assessment that a cup of water in the boat will make it sink. They view it as a peculiar form of insanity even while the good God fearing man forces evacuation.
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  Virgil Newsomeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They have every right to do what they want. They will either live or they will die. No one is forcing you or anyone else to get on the lifeboat. It is there to save those who want to be saved.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No. You won't force me. No one can. What can be done, though, is indoctrinate my children through their schools to be "saved", and to continually force small advances toward saving everyone. It is there where it becomes just plain wrong, and the people who do such things violate their own ethics and morals.
  
  It is unfortunate that the religious turn a blind eye and ignore the evil that resides within them as they continually attempt to corrupt those around them into being "saved".
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  wilderness, your children are in no danger of becoming indctrinated if they attend public school. For the past 12 years my son has attended public school and from what I hear, they teach the science thing. Some call it evolution. Most of the kids there are all dressed in black, what do they call that, gothic, or something like that. but, as he just informed me, that is more of a style than religion. Who knows anymore what is what?
  
  In my opinion, I pray that each child attending public schools be saved. But from the havoc that is in the schools.
  
  Schools are no place for ANY type of religion to be taught. But on the other hand, I can see why some think it should be.
  
  But wouldn't it be odd for an non believer to teach the bible?
  
  Messed up situation.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree. Expose a 6 year old child to praying to the sky fairies every day for 12 years by those that KNOW and teach things and too many children will learn that all too well.
  
  Expose the same child to the "knowledge" that God created the earth and man, again by teachers that know everything, and the child will learn.
  
  No, these things are not happening now, but certain misguided folk continually press for them.
  
  You understimate the gullibility of small children when exposed to nonsense from adults if you think it doesn't happen. One has only to witness the "knowledge" gained from church sunday schools to see it.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  First of all, its not nonsense, so fire that out the window. Children can be taught Christianity, the fundamental core teachings, they don't have to be dragged all through the bible or even taught about satan. They can be taught the truth about God and how he wishes to enhance lives and bring them into the duties of God (careers). And how God desires to keep them from the pitfalls which growing up presents, which those who have fallen into pitfalls certainly wish they hadn't.
  There are those who fall away from 'indoctrination' only to come back to it years later. No strike no foul.
  So there is much good.
  Perhaps we should look at this from another aspect. Fear is a great motivator and to shut up the words of God speaks volumes about the fear of the unsaved. They don't want to be wrong and they feel much better if God were never mentioned. I liken this too, 'i don't wanna know about std's', But when stung by the world, they quickly get it fixed.
  Fanaticism is on both sides of the fence. Giving people a chance and a choice is really a middle road way to go, which prepares for both.
  But i agree we should watch what we teach children. History is bloody and full of violence so we teach history to children old enough to handle that knowledge.
  We need responsible teaching, not fanatical erasing.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good deed or virtue is becoming in the image of the Creator God; so the hypothesis in the OP is wrong. The Creator God does not force anything on anybody.
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  LewSethicsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but good people do good things everyday. People like you think you have the right to monopolize good things as if that proves your silly theories about god. Only silly people like you think that anything you do will make you into the image of god. How can you be in the image of the infinite?
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Any action done in harmony of the attributes of the Creator God is virtue and a good deed; not done in harmony of the attributes of the Creator God then it is evil.
  
  A finite can be in harmony of the infinite in the relative term; that is meaning of the being in image of the Creator God.
  
  Thanks for asking about this aspect; there is not restriction on doing any virtue on any human being; its door is open for everybody; theist or atheist alike.
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  LewSethicsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  god smites all the time, should we smite too? I could use a little smiting.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What god?
  
  If you're talking about the Christianity god? Then it's a complete waste of time.
  
  If you're talking about "god" in general, then I would suggest providing a definition of some sort, before you can even begin this conversation. Not everyone has defined "god" as the same thing.
  
  Many people believe that there's no god. Many people believe "god" to be a spirit of some sort. Many people believe "god" to be entity of some kind who does nothing to interfere with humankind. Many people believe "god" to be entity of some kind who controls every aspect of every person's life. Many people believe in multiple versions. Some people even believe "god" is just energy and is in everything in existence, but has no role in anyone's life.
  
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The ONE Creator God; who has created the Universe and all in it.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And WE are the lab rats. And the experiment continues...
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It makes no difference how many times you say it Paar, it doesn't make it true, except in your own mind.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nevermind; you can differ with me.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I don't need your approval.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  After all you are just another human being like me who can err at times.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Speaking of errors, your god sure does seem to make a few...
  
  Or did your god do this on purpose?
  
  Which is it? Did your god make a mistake? Or did your god do this on purpose?
  
  I would really like to know. Which is it?
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Or did your god do this on purpose?
  
  So why are you saying God did it? Do yu really believe that nothing happens that God doesn't do? Is God controlling everything in the universe? Where did that idea come from?
  
  Which is it? Did your god make a mistake? Or did your god do this on purpose?
  
  So you are saying that God does everything. Well how do you know?
  
  I would really like to know. Which is it?
  
  Your premise is that God is responsible for everything on the face of this plkanet. Well, it that is true, you must believe that man does not have free will and cannot think for himself. And every mistake that is made must be God's mistake. I think your logic is flawed.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yawn *
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ditto.
  
  He thinks that I believe in God.
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, he was only pointing out your flawed logic.
  
  There are other possibilities than the ones you posed. Not very bright to base your worldview on such a limited set of possibilities.
  
  Perhaps you don't believe in God. But why do you believe in being illogical?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible.
  
  The Bible.
  
  Who said the Bible was logical?
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, but it is, Mr. Troubled Man.
  
  Too logical and wonderful for your simple mind to understand (apparently).
  
  It's all in the interpretation, but that interpretation requires respect and humility, first. Without that, your interpretation isn't worth horse droppings.
  
  And so many Christians do a poor job of interpreting, too, and they do have respect, but no humility. Alas! They're missing out on so much.
  
  There is so much wisdom hidden within the Bible, and you ain't gonna find it with your attitude.
  
  And only you can change that attitude. It's all up to you.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You flatter me. I'm also too simple-minded to understand how magic works on traffic jams. Can you tell us that bedtime story again, daddy?
  
  So, out of the 38,000+ denominations of Christianity, there is only one interpretation that isn't considered horse droppings?
  
  Or, is the interpretation that includes clearing up traffic jams with the sweep of a magical hand the one that isn't horse droppings?
  
  I suppose if I went completely bonkers and believed that Jesus opened up a jammed boulevard of cars, I might then attain such an attitude?
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And it doesn't make it untrue, no matter how many times you deny it, Sir Cags.
  
  Saying it doesn't prove anything, either way.
  
  Truth is truth, no matter what we make it out to be.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ridiculous.
  Spouting off mystic ideologies and anything related to it proves that only the gullible have trouble distinguishing between reality and non-reality things.
  Truth is truth, too bad you don't understand it. I know you don't understand it because "no matter what we make it out to be" is an absurd statement to follow "truth is truth" up with. Take your head out of the scientology junk and come to reality.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Straw man.
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  Onusonusposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I would rather say that we are indebted to that God who has created us, kept and preserved us, and continues to do so even from one moment to the next by lending us breath. All the good deeds in the world would still make us unprofitable servants, and all that he asks is that we keep his commandments.
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  emrldphxposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I understand that this is your basic interpretation of the message of the Bible, but perhaps it isn't the same interpretation others have?
  
  I, for instance, believe that God does us a great service by giving us different cultures and religions, so we can learn different ways of thinking, and learn to get along through adversity.
  
  Also, I wouldn't agree about your comments of bleeding in your heart, or that we are going to hell because of Adam and Eve.
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  nightwork4posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  god would have to be real in order for it to do anything so i guess that answers the question.
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  LewSethicsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  well I guess we can wrap it up then
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  Don Wposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The problem with this kind of argument is that the nature of the assumptions made in Christian theology, for example, are such that when taken as true you can't logically point to objective reality as a way of demonstrating inconsistency in them. As soon as you assume god exists and is omnimax (even for the sake of argument) it can be argued that your view of reality is too limited (relative to an omnimax being) to determine anything objectively about that beings interactions with humanity. In effect it makes your view of reality inferior by definition. This is one reason the concept of god in Christian theology is so powerful. It simply assimilates questions like these.
  
  The only way to counter this is either to argue that such a being doesn't exist, or argue that god is different to that described in Christianity. If you do the former, the question "Why do people have to do good deeds, but god doesn't have to?" is rendered meaningless. If you do the latter, then by definition you are not referring to the god of Christianity, and the question becomes irrelevant to those who profess belief in the Christian concept of god.
  
  Better to simply reject the existence of a deity, or reject the assumptions about said deity and offer an argument for your rejections than to try this approach in my opinion.
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Wilfionposted 13 years ago
This is the difficulty I have, when anyone tells me that they are a Christian, and that they therefore believe in morality and doing the right thing. I understand why anyone would want to be religious, because of the comfort it offers. However, I have my own sense of what is right and wrong, and it certainly isn't based on the morality of the Christian god.

Individual Christians may be very good people, and do everything they can to do good for their fellow man. However, most Christians I have spoken to know little about the sort of god that is described in the Old Testament. The god who ordered genocide, or thought that human sacrifice was fine, or that slaughtering animals in His name, because the smell was pleasing to Him. Or the god that demanded the brains of babies be dashed out upon the rocks. To me, these morals of God are the opposite of my own. I believe genocide and the killing of babies to be morally evil.

Yet I was once a Christian, but like most Christians, I knew hardly anything about the real nature of the god of the Bible. I had a cosy idea of the little baby Jesus, who was also somehow a sweet fluffy lamb. I had images of angels and of my dead family members sitting on a cloud, playing a harp, whilst the baby Jesus and His mom cared for them. When I therefore began to read the Bible and discoverd the god described in it, I was disgusted, and came to the conclusion that either such a god did not exist, or if He did, I no longer wanted anything to do with Him. How could I believe in a god whose morality fell short of my own?
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As an ex christian myself I can empathise. My beliefs went out the window when I studied the bible and saw all the contradictions and lies.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I believe in the greater good. I treat others the way I would like to be treated. I believe that all men are equal. I suppose I've taken the good bits, and try to live by them. But not on a promise of eternal life.
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  LewSethicsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Or a threat of eternal pain. Good philosophy Hollie.
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  Sarahsvoiceposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where in the bible does it say that God thought human sacrafice was fine? Remember that Jesus is part of the holy trinity. For all intensive purposes he is God, just another form of God. Please do share if there is any passage that supports human sacrafice.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Evening, there young man. I have a suggestion. Would you care to name one contradiction and or one lie.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh... a masochist...
  
  *Grabs Popcorn*
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No. No need. Read the book.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You disappoint me.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well I could start with the obvious lies that jesus was supposed to have told. (that would be the jesus who probably never existed and managed to write not a single word)
  
  "And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)
  
  Sure! 2,000 years long enough to wait?
  
  "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)
  
  Another lie.
  
  "Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst." (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)
  
  There are many more.
  I know, you have all experienced miracles, but in 2000 years have been incapable of documenting even one.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's better.
  
  Hope your day is going okay
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I did that just for you.
  
  I am having a very rough day today, with enough back pain to stop me from being able to drive.
  
  Still happy though.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  earnestshub, you are needed at:
  
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/85664
  
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you, been there and done that now.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  *cyberhugs* Sorry about your day. I feel for you, quite literally unfortunately... the change of weather here has almost crippled me. I'm laying with a heating pad on my shoulder right now.
  
  Thanks for thinking of me You know how much I enjoy your conversations.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hugs and love back at you Melissa. Sorry to know you are carrying all that. I just shot an email off to the Australian representative for a new pain killing machine that sends an over-riding signal to the receptor in the brain from the CNS nerve being impinged.
  
  If I get an answer I may look at it and do some more research.
  If it proves up, I may be in America in a few weeks and will seek treatment there.
  I can look at the email and send the name of it on. In fact I'll find it now.
  
  It's called a Calmare machine Melissa,
  
  www.competitivetech.net
  
  I just got a reply, there are no machines in any of our hospitals or pain clinics yet.
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  MelissaBarrettposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It looks like it is in some of our VA centers in New England. I don't have access to the centers, but I might forward the information on to my Dad. He's got degenerative spine disease and is popping between 6-8 hydrocodone a day.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  OK Melissa, I am hoping it works. I probably have a chance to get the machine off the ground here in Melbourne. I am going to call a few pain clinics I know and ask them about looking at one.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  "And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)
  
  Key words are have faith and 'doubt not', which is hard to do unless you know the will and purposes of God. Obviously God does not want mountains removed. Obviously if it were easy to move literal mountains well wouldn't that become nuisance or a weapon the military would love to get a hold of So really to think that moving a literal mountain is the subject here, is just an idiots fallacy of a sloppy interpretation. In this obvious hyperbole example the mountain can mean an obstacle. Next, Jesus says all things ye ask ye shall receive. Now its nice to read something like this, but, as always we have to stay within the proper context.
  James 4:3 "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts".
  This is certainly true and too obvious to go into detail but it shows proper context when it comes to asking anything of God, we must ask correctly. IF we have throat cancer and we know that God has called us to preach the word, then we must pray, having faith that the cancer will be cured. (true story) and it was.
  So wishing for a mountain to be removed into the sea is foolishness.
  And we know that God answers prayer with yes, no and wait awhile.
  
  "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)
  
  Another lie.
  Nope. Not a lie at all. Just more foolishness trying to understand what is way above your head.
  We know about asking from part one of this post. Now we need to define seeking and knocking.
  Obviously seeking can take a very long time. nuff said
  knocking is interesting because it also is not instantaneous.
  You see the things of God are too precious to just be handed over as the prior verse warns us about giving pearls to swine. We do indeed need to become worthy of Gods gifts, continually seeking and fervent knocking will reap its rewards, when the conditions are met for whatever we are asking.
  
  "Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst." (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)
  
  Key words 'gathered together in my name'. In my name always has a personal attachment. Like a fathers last name and his sons last name. An ambassador who has come in the name of someone he truly represents. If mr Trudeaus ambassador visits turkey, he had better come representing the views of trudeau and not some other candidate.
  The term in my name is not some flippant, tent meeting put together to raise money for a new school roof and we see the added importance of yet another word - gathered.
  Now gathered is either just a gathering or a gathering by summoning. To keep it short - If God has said, "Go do this" and the people all gather to get it done, then they are more precisely, 'gathered in his name'. This term of gathered in my name, means, appointed specifically by God.
  
  yawn, too easy.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It didn't happen.... you must have done it wrong. What a pathetic cop out that is.
  
  It's simple, a billion prayers a day and not one answer in 2,000 years. Nothing to do with asking the right way. A lot to do with probability.
  Any wonder you think you are a special person, your god is as unavailable as truth from a religionist.
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  And yet, Earnest, I've had dozens answered -- all instantaneous, all affirmative and all contrary to physical law.
  
  Wow, Earnest. And now you're pretending to be God? The all-knowing Earnest has spoken. So, how do you know this lie that a billion prayers a day and not one has been answered in 2000 years. If you were a scientist in a laboratory, you'd be booted out for jumping to conclusions without proof.
  
  Your conjecture does not stand as proof no matter how many times you say it.
  
  And God is only available to those who actively seek Him out, not corrupt individuals with contempt in their heart. Sorry, but even on a bad day my own privileges are revoked. Ah, but I'm not perfect like you -- you who knows everything.
  
  I've documented one of those miracles. And so many skeptics are too much of a woos and wimp to discuss it with anything more than ridicule. It's sad, you know, when such delusion passes for "reason."
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sometimes the things he says just stems from fanaticism. Fanaticism like... Belief in god is childish
  
  yet people in their 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, 50s, 40s, 30s, 20s, come to Christ. Obviously not childish at all.
  
  All this desperate atheistic bulldust is so lame
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @brotheryochanan, some good logic and good reasoning.
  
  However, I question your statement, "And we know that God answers prayer with yes, no and wait awhile."
  
  From my own experience, I've only had instantaneous and affirmative answers. And I've found that selfishness (ego) prevents me from asking.
  
  The mortal "me" (ego) is incapable of asking. Ego can no more ask than can a rock. The immortal "me" (the usually sleeping child of God, within) is the only one that can ask. If I am being selfish, I am following ego. If I am being humble (the antidote to ego), then I can follow God, instead. Only then can I truly ask.
  
  Mountains, you say? Jesus meant "mountains" when he said "mountains." If ever a need to move mountains arises, you can bet that mountains will be moved. Moving a pebble is as easy as moving a mountain or a galaxy.
  
  Do not be afraid that the military will get hold of the secret of miracles. Where there is selfishness, there is ego, and this prevents the asking of prayers. The mouths may move, but the message is never delivered.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Question it if you will.
  Its my experience and others too.
  
  Sometimes i wait for things.
  Others a yes
  others a no
  
  Its all good
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I honestly am not picking at you or disagreeing with you.
  
  My point in asking was to maybe get people to actually thinking.
  
  I too have found a few contradictions.
  
  This is a touchy subject and for many very tender. I can't see why anyone would make fun of a persons belief or hate them or shun them just because they believe different than them.
  
  Hope your evening is a pleasant one.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks, it's morning where I am.
  It is a touchy subject for those of us who don't wish to be controlled by someone else's invisible friend, I can tell you that much.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  How come I can NEVER remember that??? lol.
  
  I myself don't like being controlled. What's that called. independent maybe?
  Sometimes I think it is a disease.
  
  Now, let's see. Ask and it shall be given. (did that. it works) if ya think about it.
  
  This much I know. Life is short. While here, I do TRY to find humor or at least the good in everything.
  
  How's the weather out that way? It is just turning cooler, and for that I am well pleased.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It is almost summer, but the weather is always good here.
  
  I don't find thinking for myself to be like a disease.
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  Wilfionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We didn't have a summer this year, due to the cutbacks made by David Cameron. And he has ordered that the snow is to be delivered earlier this year to force the Occupy tent dwellers to pack up and go home.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm glad our government is not running the weather! We would get more than the four seasons a day we get now.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now there's a subject we need to discuss. Government.
  
  I can't do this to the OP. But that is one of my pet peeeeeeeeeves.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm sure Earnestshub will be along later, but you can start with the lie of Noahs flood that never happened.
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  Wilfionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently, the flood of Noah is the reason dinosaurs no longer exist, because they were too big to fit into the ark. There is a creationist museum in the US, which even has a model of a dinosaur with a saddle on its back, because according to the Intelligent Design theory, man used to ride T-rex, like a horse. It is a wonderful fairy tale, but rather worrying that adults, some of whom are university educated believe in such tales, and even more worrying that such people are usually the ones in seats of power.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Howdy howdy. Now how can I argue with a pic that cute?
  
  What you talking about? The flood never happened? lol
  
  I wasn't there, I don't know if it did or not. I'm getting gray but mercy I ain't that old yet.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You may be getting gray, but there is still gray matter underneath.
  
  Begin by calculating how much water it would take to cover Mt. Everest to a depth of 15 cubits. You will find that it takes a ball of water about the size of Pluto (1 Billion cubic miles); there isn't that much water on or in earth.
  
  Calculate how much rain must fall per hour to get 30,000 feet in 40 days.
  
  Then think about what that much water will do to the oceans salinity and what will happen to the life there.
  
  Then consider what will happen to plant life (including seeds) if left under 5 miles of water for several months.
  
  Then think what will happen to earth's climate with the sun obscured for a month.
  
  Consider what the food supply will be when Noah gets off the ark and finds all other life dead and rotting.
  
  Put it all together, and you don't have to have been there.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have seen some strange things happen. Mother Nature has a way of stirring up some mean weather in the blink of an eye. Quick like and in a hurry.
  
  In March of 93, my niece and I were rushing around town, beauty salon, clothing stores, etc, getting ready to take a church trip and trying not to be late in catching the bus. We came out of the store and it was flurrying. What normally was a 15 minuted drive at best, took us an hour and a half to get to the driveway. That quick and the road had become a solid sheet of ice. Oh, and when we started our day it way 5o degrees or better. That evening, we had 18 inches of snow. Some buses were already on their way and were stranded on the interstate.
  
  So, things can happen.
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  wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mother nature certainly can, and does, do nearly anything physically possible. Like you, I've seen some pretty strange weather; rain so dense I literally couldn't see the end of the car hood - A mile of cars carefully pulled to the side of the road to wait for it to stop. A snowstorm that went from nothing on the ground to covering the car hood overnight. In central Virginia!
  
  There is a difference, however, between unusual and impossible. Physically impossible as in there isn't enough water on the planet to cover it all. As in salt water life can't survive in fresh water. Things like that.
  
  You asked for a biblical lie, I give you one and you talk about a snowstorm. Think about it, mom, think and reason hard, and fess up that it couldn't have happened. The story is a metaphor, an example, a fictional tale, I don't know what. Except that it isn't the history lesson it is presented to be.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some things do seem impossible.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly, and the only way they can become possible, as claimed in the Bible, would be if magic were used, or someone was just making up the story all along.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  .....A story with a really good ending is pretty scarce these days-unless youve read one we haven't heard about lol
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've read many great stories with good endings, in the past and the present.
  
  Your words are spurious and predictable, to say the least.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  you mean like fairytales?
  
  God exists,whether we believe it or not.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, I don't mean fairy tales.
  
  It's called reality, join it sometime.
  
  Or, maybe not.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ya know, I do not like lies. I do my very best at trying to tell the truth as I KNOW it.
  
  I was not around at the time the flood was said to have happened, therefore, to say it didn't may be a lie.
  
  I will be one of the first to tell you, the Bible is NOT what I base my decisions on. It is, to me, a great guide. In it are some very sound instructions, or suggestions I should say, as how to live a healthy lifestyle, how to treat others and so on.
  
  Yeah, there are things in it that SEEM far fetched. How could that happen kind of thing. But, look around you. The world is FULL of wonders. BUT of course, we have those that think they have to analyze them to pieces. Why do people do that?
  
  Somehow, someone, something.....kicked the ball that got everything rolling. MOST people simply refer to that entity as God. I say Creator.
  You want to talk about perfect science? It took science MASTER to create the things in this world.
  
  I can't say the flood never happened. Doctors have told countless people they couldn't conceive or father a child only to be proven different.
  
  The world we live in is perfect. HOW we live in it controls a lot of what happens in it.
  
  I have heard/read many people say, oh God is so cruel for letting this or that to happen.
  
  In some countries we see little children with their stomachs stretched out like balloons this is the result of malnutrition not the Hand of God.
  
  Take that to the reverse, there are countless overweight people, caused by the Hand of God, no, just simply overeating in most cases.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  To KNOW it, YOU have to take YOU(ego) out of the picture. Can you do that?
  It's impossible. Mathematically and physically impossible. That's what you're not seeming to understand.
  I'm sure there happens to be. Totally dependent on one's simplified interpretation.
  They do that to prove what is possible within reality and what is mythology(not based on truth, but based on mystic tellings).
  Really? Somehow, sure. Someone, not necessary. Something? Dependent upon what that something actually is.
  This is common knowledge. Not necessarily is it true, but it's what many believe.
  Untrue, unless you're attribute to someone.
  It impossible for it to have happened.
  And now you're comparing human errors to the supposed perfection, all-powerful nature of your god? That seems a bit unfair.
  You mean Earth completely uninhabited.
  This would be, so far, the only true thing you said.
  And those people are just pulling your chain to get a rise out of you.
  Again, many people know why it happens. But, when there are some people claiming that an all-powerful, omniscient, omnipresence type god is real and controls what happens in this world....is where the problem comes into play.
  Again, same as above.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No. I may have put it too simple. But, I was comparing science to science.
  
  However this old world got started, something, someone, somehow, all I am saying is, it/he/she/? planned it perfect.
  
  It started out perfect. Over time we have "unperfected" it.
  
  That and the fact that I wasn' t around during the time of the alleged flood, was all I was saying.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some "science" is labeled "science" but isn't "science". Example: Scientology? It's not actually science and anyone claiming it is is out of their tree(nuts/crazy/psycho).
  Planned?
  Earth was not started out perfect, because during it's formation, human life couldn't have existed. It took a very long time before human life could even come into existence.
  At one point from one perspective, yes heavenly could be a word for the description of Earth and yes we humans are literally destroying it.
  I understood that, but you weren't even attempting to try to fathom what Wilderness was attempting to convey. Why not?
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I did. Simply put Wilderness thinks the flood could not have happened.
  
  I answered with an analogy, that stated in order for me to keep from telling a lie, I said I wasn't there but feel as though it could have happened as easily as not to have happened. In all honesty, yes, I think it happened.
  
  Yes, Earth at the end of its completion was perfect. Humans is what is making it not so perfect. We are destroying it every second of every day. But hey, that must be God's fault.
  
  I like that one. their out of their tree. Hadn't heard that before.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  how do they know mt everest was formed 60 mil yrs ago? If it was just earth that exploded into a huge pile using 60 mil yrs old rock that would not support how old the mountain was but rather say more about the material used during the formation of the rock.
  60 million years of rainfall i would think would have a large effect on the mountain, surely after that much rain it would be a mole hill or it started out as one extremely extremely high mountain.
  If we consider Pangaea we can see how a smaller planet expanding could form mt Everest and accommodate a lot of water.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you commenting on things you clearly don't have any clue about? You're making a mountain out of a mole hill, or is the other way round?
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Nice of you to yet again express nothing of value.
  If you are going to say someone knows nothing about something at least have something to say about that something.
  Its called discussing and that's what posts do in forums.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Are you actually saying your far-fetched, completely ridiculous claims are a discussion that warrants others to express value?
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  no. I said you expressed nothing of value.
  and then i sought to help you clarify yourself.
  
  You see, opinions like yours are valueless,
  I can't say they are far-fetched because there is no substance, no information, no anything else, but!
  I can say they are completely ridiculous.
  
  for instance, how do i not have any clue?
  How do you have a clue?
  Your throwing down an empty sentence is just empty and empty is valueless.
  hope this helps
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  As are your religious beliefs and all the ridiculous unfounded claims of magic you make here every day.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Studied, to study; a study about study:
  The way some people 'study' is they decide what their outcome of 'study' is going to be and then they 'study' toward that predeclared outcome. When people study they can either challenge their bias or feed it. This is not study at all but merely reading specifically chosen material that supports the outcome they want.
  Many who twist the bibles sayings to promote their predetermined stance can do so easily, but it takes honesty and sincerity to let the bible teach the 'studier'.
  We have seen how you just randomly grab any old verse and copy it quickly, ignoring, historical evidence of barbaric times, geographic locations, overall picture of what is going on, who is narrating, why this is happening and a host of other interpretive persuasions and then when shown what is correct, ignoring the correction and then denying the correction ever happened, that the correction is applicable and possible. Honesty is needed in everyone who Studies but not those who merely copy and paste.
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting, @Wilfion, that you think God's morality falls short of your own.
  
  You make some logical and reasoned arguments for your point-of-view, but they are based on interpretation, and there are so many conflicting interpretations of the Bible.
  
  I can see that if you start with a warm-and-fuzzy view of things, harsh reality can make you run in the opposite direction. But that's not always the brightest maneuver, especially if your glimpse was an inaccurate one.
  
  Personally, I feel that all current interpretations of the Bible are inaccurate--at least every one that I've read. And I've found numerous hidden elements of wisdom in Genesis alone. Things like an explanation for the seemingly outrageous longevity of the early patriarchs -- one compatible with science.
  
  I also feel that your interpretation is sorely lacking.
  
  So many Christians and skeptics alike feel that they are nothing more than Homo sapiens bodies. Groan! Nothing could be further from the truth. We have Homo sapiens bodies, but the true self is the sleeping immortal within. When, in Genesis 6:3 it says that man is "also" flesh, it alludes to the other part of man which is not.
  
  That immortal is the same one in the Garden who bit the forbidden fruit of good-evil and other dichotomies of physical existence (ego). Yes, you and I were there. We were the culprits; not some ancient ancestor.
  
  Read Genesis 1:26, again.
  
  Your past, quaint attachment to fluffy little lambs and cute babies is understandable, but much more is at stake than your Homo sapiens body. In fact, the body means nothing.
  
  God is after saving His children, not bodies.
  
  Analogy time...
  
  If your daughter was in a car accident would you rush to the car junk yard to check on the car, or would you go to the hospital to see your daughter?
  
  I suspect that you would go see your daughter. That would be a good answer.
  
  Similarly, God is not interested in chasing after the temporary vehicles we call "human bodies." The resurrection of His sleeping, immortal children is all that He is interested in.
  
  Don't be such a woos. Get over the hurt feelings of what God had to do in the past to pave the way for our reawakening.
  
  Moping around the car junk yard looks pretty silly.
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  seigfried23posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well that's a relief. I always wanted to believe that perhaps there was some greater, unseen beautiful design that explains away the rape of a toddler by a psychopathic serial killer, or the unrepentant and repetitive molestation of a trusting boy by a Catholic priest.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If people were not capable of such horrors then God could have just left everything on autopilot and not cared, but, because God cares what is he supposed to do? Kill everyone before they commit such terrible acts?
  Lets look at the OT. God says, kill these people who do these things and certain atheists cry, "foul what a psychotic god who would kill people just because." So that avenue of God put a stumbling block in front of them.
  If God just killed people that were going to commit atrocities then people would just fall down dead for no reason and people would not have a reason, no closure... unless they, yep... again.. blame God, yet they still wouldn't have a reason.
  So lets look at the NT... we know what jesus said about love and passiveness, being peace keepers, etc. IF this word were continually in the ears of people and God were more of a known fact then probably more people would be deterred from committing atrocity, but still people will be people. It is much easier for people to commit atrocity having no overseer or rules from even an invisible sky fairy, and this is the way the world is going.
  You can argue the catholic priest situation but need to remember that in its own exclusive deluded way, catholic priests can forgive sin - just like God can - but they can't, the catholic priest gives absolute absolution to sin and the sin is as if it never existed and this is why there is never any firing or public humiliation of the transgressor ( well one of the reasons ). Catholicism has done too much and far worse damage than non believers can tolerate.
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  LewSethicsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  god kills them after they commit such terrible acts, just as he kills us all
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  brother, I just had a thought, the quarter, before they changed the design, on the face of the quarter or front side of it, in front of the wasington face were the words In God We Trust. On the new quarters, that saying in on the back side of the washington face.
  
  In my opinion, it's like at first we were saying hey we are a nation looking towards God, and now we are a nation with God looking toward us.
  
  Simply put, once upon a time we looked toward God. now we have turned our backs on Him.
  
  People ask, why do so many things happen, why are the bad things getting worse, etc.
  
  It breaks my heart, but that is how the ball is bouncing in some yards.
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shelpeareposted 13 years ago
Who says that God doesn't have to do good deeds? The very word "God" in William Smith's Bible Dictionary means "good". Note too that the devil is the evil one. The names are not coincidental. Matthew 5:45 says "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."
God blesses both the believer and the unbeliever, the good the bad and the ugly. Of course he has special promises for those who accept Him. Many of the things that even Christians say about God are not true.
Jesus rebuked the Scribes and Pharisees of His time saying:
Mark 7:7 "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
Paul adds:
Ephesians 4:14 "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive."
Galatians 1:6 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel."
There are so many different Christian religions. They say Jesus, Jesus but don't care what Jesus says or what His doctrines are and Jesus predicted that in Luke 6:46 when He said "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well put shelpeare
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  Wilfionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But how do Christians get around the problem of believing in a god who commands that his followers commit deeds, which we would now consider to be evil. I'm sure most Christians do not believe in genocide or slavery or stoning disobedient children to death. Yet these are ordered by the god Christians claim to believe in. I don't understand how it is possible to reconcile the conflicting emotions caused by having such a belief.
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  OutWestposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe you are taking it all to literally. It can easily be seen as a symbolic book and the wars and battles can represent our own personal turmoil we need to work through.
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  LewSethicsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  oh, its a symbolic book when you cant answer questions asked about it, and the literal truth when you feel like it. pretty self serving if you ask me.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Different times.
  We live in what is called the civilized era. They lived in the uncivilized era. They are also different people than we are, even today - we shrink at blood and death and they see it everyday, back then, the worlds nations were formed by war. War happened all the time. Emperors conquered vast areas of land, nations and people and they murdered them, tortured them and eradicated as many as possible to subject the inhabitants to their rule. There was no democratic vote.
  Genocide has happened today. Slavery is still around - but not in our backyards. Genocide of the bible was to wipe out nonbelievers, who warred as a source of economy, wealth and greed to name a few reasons, military, back then was an accepted job and warring was regularly something people had to do. Slavery, in israel was not like in alabama in america. Slaves often opted to stay with their masters or more modern day language would be, employees often opted to stay with their employers. Slaves under Gods laws, were set free every 7 years, so no matter what the debt, 7 years and the debt was paid. Why did God do this? because family was so very important.
  
  Disobedient children are everywhere.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! What a whopper of a tale. No worries, the adults will help the disobedient children see that their irrational beliefs are just fairy tales meant to teach them to despise everyone else.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And the atheist will offer them nothing...for thats what they began with ,so thats what they wil have left....
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you?
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You don't believe in God -so what/who do you believe in ?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Reality, obviously.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ears that dont hear
  Eyes that dont see
  
  Hmm..
  
  I can see really well
  I hear great too
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, so well that you're hearing and seeing things that aren't even there.
  
  One of my old girlfriends sister who was schizophrenic could also hear and see things just like you.
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  don't worry. He's just lying for no reason. He likes to poison the well when he discovers that biblical things make sense.
  If an old gf hears voices that doesn't make any case for all the christians and spiritualists and others who hear voices and it certainly doesn't speak for conscience. It just means he has a whopper of a tale to tell.
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  Wilfionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  brotheryochanon, you mention that we are different types of people now than were God's chosen people. I would certainly hope that we have developed since the Bronze Age. However, my point was that these laws and rules listed in the Old Testament are not meant to be the rules and laws of men, but of God. So, yes, whilst we may now be different people, surely the god you believe in is still the same one mentioned in the Old Testament, or does God also change and develop? Was the god of the Bronze Age uncivilised, and has since seen the error of His ways?
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What i attempted to point out was those laws were given to those people who were living in different times and were of a different mindset. The God of the bible is completely different than any other god around. He sets up principles and condemns things that on other god even mentions.
  God does not change because truth does not change. Peoples perceptions of truth change but the real truth behind the peoples truth does not change and this is what God stands for - complete and real truth. Sin still hurts and it still affects lives and on a larger scale, societies, nations and our planet as a whole. People may have found a way around or learned to live with or adapted to modifications, even results of sin, the underlying damage is still there. God will forever be concerned with His People living abundant lives.
  The thing misunderstood is that with Jesus, God did not change or develop, God changed the way things were to be handled. As i prefer to phrase this, 'He changed the dispensation'. He dispensed a new way, no sacrifice, no festivals, no Law - certainly no talmud, pisha, or 1,000+ man made rules, not even 10 commandments - just 2. And for obvious good reasons the time was ripe for the change and its a change that has witness in the OT, not just some surprise, but it was foretold by prophecy through Hebraic holy men, men of God. And yet all through the OT God displays, grace, mercy and love countless times, over and over. The NT is not a new God but a continuation of the old God. There is no difference in God just the way He does business.
  hope that helped
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  lone77starposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @Wilfion, most Christians do not get around the problem you pose. They don't know how. They merely have faith. And such faith is not always a bad thing. And yet some people have a distorted idea of what faith is all about. Alas! Even many Christians.
  
  On the subjects of genocide, slavery and stoning disobedient children to death, you have to realize that these Homo sapiens bodies are not what are important to God ... or to us.
  
  That's right. But if you think you are your body, then you're simply not going to "get it."
  
  You are the one in the Garden. Each one of us was there. We each decided to bite that forbidden fruit of mortality -- the dichotomous ego. It wasn't physical fruit, and the Garden wasn't a physical place. It was spiritual. And the death foretold by God was a spiritual death. Two chapters later "Adam" (now symbolizing all of humanity in Genesis 5:2 -- for they were male and female, this Adam) lived for the symbolic period of 930 "years."
  
  If you think that you are your temporary vehicle known as a Homo sapiens body, then you won't understand why God would destroy all life on Earth with Noah's Flood.
  
  Didn't happen? Certainly, it didn't happen when Sir Isaac Newton or Archbishop Ussher said it did. Ussher's date of 2348 BC had too much going on in the world. Three years after that date, Egypt's sixth dynasty started. Thirteen years after that date, Sargon the Great conquered Sumer. So, obviously, with all those other people in the world, Ussher's date for the Flood couldn't be right.
  
  But there are clues in Genesis for the correct date. (But only if you are humble enough and interested enough to look.)
  
  And that correct date coincides with another date found in the works of science. And that explains why the Flood was necessary and who the real culprit was behind the need for that Flood.
  
  Answer me this: "What was the reason for the Flood?"
  
  Some kind of wickedness, right? And apparently the Flood cured humanity of that wickedness, otherwise God would not have been satisfied with the Flood enough to say that he would never use it again.
  
  Don't be so arrogant to presume that you understand everything about the Bible. It takes far more faith, humility and hard work than you have expended in order to find the wisdom hidden therein. And I've discovered so little in all my 61 years (and not through a lack of effort).
  
  "If deciphering wisdom hidden in the Bible elicits the very thing the Bible is hoping we will achieve—humility under God—then one can easily assume that every effort would have been made to hide a great amount of wisdom therein" (The Bible's Hidden Wisdom, a book in progress).
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Guitar4christ365posted 13 years ago
Well... Actually, if you're taught that it's about doing good deeds to be saved, then someone taught you wrong...

The point is that as a result of being saved, we do good deeds. But salvation is not contingent on good deeds.

'Even if you love god you are going to hell because adam and eve took care of that for us, eh?'
Wrong. Love God -> get saved. That's it. No deeds required.
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Emile Rposted 13 years ago
A good deed is done because of the piece of the Divine each one of us carries within us. So, you see, 'God' does good deeds every day. You just aren't giving credit where it's due.
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  paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with you; the credit of every virtue goes to Him- the Creator God.
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  Emile Rposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's difficult to agree with something I didn't say. Maybe not difficult, but very dishonest to attempt to twist my words.
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
If there would be no pain; there would be no life; if there won't be any disease there wont be any medical science.

It is your wrong interpretation of a phenomenon.
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  paradigmsearchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  In other words, you have just stated that it is deliberate.
  
  Amazing! You are right. I agree with you.
  
  As one lab rat to another, I wish you well.
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paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago
It truly is impossible to make a post (or write a hub) that can communicate equally well with all levels of intellect...
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yea like those ice-breakers
  
  Like everyone write down a random topic /note ,then pull one out (not your own) and write on the topic.
  
  Sometimes a thread is so whack,other times,oh so level
  
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sweet-n-low49posted 13 years ago
If you read the Bible with understanding, the only thing that "God" requires of us, is to obey his laws and they're being broken everyday. God does love us, no matter what we do because he made us. Everyday that "He" allows us to see, is another day that you have to repent, because whether people want to believe it or not "Jesus" is coming back and if you want to go back with him, you had better make up your mind about who you're going to serve "God" or Satan, oh "YES" he's real too! Whether you bow now or later, YOU WILL BOW! This is "God" promise.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Welcome to Hubpages forums and thank you for threatening us with eternal damnation! LOL!
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  and you got eternal damnation from that how? LOL!
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He Who Triumphsposted 13 years ago
Christians don't do good deeds because they "have to" they do good deeds because they are taught to love God and love everyone. Obviously, Christians usually fail horribly at both, because we're human and are selfish and screw up. But I know a few that try intensely hard to do this. And as for God not doing good deeds, He does them all the time. We just choose to focus on the bad crap that He doesn't fix (which He will eventually, when He creates a new Heaven and Earth as stated in the book of Revelation). There are so many verses in the Bible that talk of the good works God has done, is doing, and will do. All you have to do is look for them.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
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SpanStarposted 13 years ago
People don't have to do good deeds as it has already been stated but God doesn't have to do good deeds even though he does is because:

* He created the universe and all that is with in it.

* He allows for the sun to shine and for the rain to fall.

* He created all life since mankind didn't create ourselves.

* He has given evil mankind a chance to escape his wrath.

* He offers eternal life to all sinners

I think I'll stop here.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well said Span
  
  And each and everyone else is Gods 'good deed'
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  SpanStarposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Eaglekiwi
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Eaglekiwiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You makin eyes at me again Cags ?
  
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  habeeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I agree.
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lone77starposted 13 years ago
Rigged Question

@LewSethics, wow. What a question!

Let's ask you a similar one. Why does everyone else have to refrain from murdering their family, but you get to do it without repercussions? Oh, and by the way, who did you murder first?

See what I mean?

You're stacking a question which is based on false premises.

Source?

Perhaps you're basing your ire on the words of Christians who have their own interpretations of the Bible. Well, not every interpretation is correct. In fact, I'd say it's likely that no interpretations are correct. That's why humility is so important on this subject. Just as a good scientist uses humility when searching for answers, one should not make any assumptions (as you have) in asking big questions.

Genesis and the Real Culprits

Adam and Eve? Could it be that they are us? Could it be that we were the ones in the Garden who turned away from God in a moment of willful curiosity of the mechanics of physical reality -- forsaking our spiritual nature in exchange for a physical one -- ego?

Perhaps you're basing your distorted view of things on tragedies which happened to you, personally. Well, all I can say is, "Man up. Get over it! Quit whining."

God's Love

God loves all of His children. That's why he created Homo sapiens, so that you (the true spiritual self within) would have a chance to awaken. That's why he protected the future of civilization with a worldwide flood, so that the tools of our own reawakening would be there for us some day. Even after seeing all of the miracles of their deliverance, the Jews who left Egypt during the Exodus turned away from God, betrayed Him, doubted Him and ignored Him. Can you blame anyone for not liking betrayal? Would you love for everyone around you to betray you? Don't be silly!

So, what would you do if you attempted to help someone out of a jam and all they did was to pull out a gun and shoot you?

Then how would you feel if that person accused you of torture? Would you want to help them anymore?

Hell, You Say?

God doesn't send people to hell. He lets them go there of their own free will. By turning away from your own spiritual nature, you are choosing to discard your immortal self in exchange for a temporary mortal one. Not very bright, if you ask me. But hey, I guess I have a big advantage. I've remembered some of the past few million years since the Garden. I've been outside of my Homo sapiens body with the ability to see as clearly as I can from within it. And I have asked God for things that were physically impossible and had them arrive instantaneously.

Bad Attitude?

With your sour attitude, do you think you deserve special treatment? Do you think you'll get it? Fat chance that. But God still loves you.

Why won't He show Himself? Anyone who demands to see Him before they will believe is being a woos and a wimp. The Heavenly Father does not reward those with contempt and deception in their heart. Would you?
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  LewSethicsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  People like you are scary.
  You said:
  'Let's ask you a similar one. Why does everyone else have to refrain from murdering their family, but you get to do it without repercussions? Oh, and by the way, who did you murder first?"
  
  WTF does that mean? When did I murder anyone?
  By the way, you seem to have derived every evil thing there is to know about me because I asked a silly question.
  Sure, I'm evil. Now what? Are you any better for it?
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Darrell Robertsposted 13 years ago
The logical answer would be because God is the only one with a free will, if God is truly omnipresent, omnipotent, and all-knowing. Lets say you wrote a movie and had the power to create everything, the story, the stage and all the scenes, the interaction between the actors, the whole nine yard. THen the actors would only do what you whan them to do. They could never know, because you created them, not the other way around. The potency of the creator would be in the creation, however the creation could never be the creator.

Well, that is what I logically think. I like this because techically I could never be responsible for anything, lets credit God, for both "good" and "bad", sounds like a good get out of jail card.

Have a pleasant day,
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Larry Okekeposted 13 years ago
Seeing another day is a blessing? You mean the one for which you'll be judged and sent to hell? Its amazing what people believe at times
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  brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The days come and go, either way.
  A day to be judged or a day to be blessed.
  
  We can't avoid the day but we can control what we do.
  
  I can't wait for 'no hell' to become a standard doctrine.
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knolyourselfposted 13 years ago
As God's psychiatrist I can tell you, why be God if you have to do god deeds all the time. Lot a work ya know. The pay is not that good.
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ElSeductorposted 13 years ago
Same reason that your boss doesn't have to work, but you do.
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  SanXuaryposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It all becomes corrupt the moment you interpret Gods word in Earthly terms. If you decide a World of free will based on human agendas and selfishness in pursuit of Earthly answers explains Gods will, you have missed the point. It was seldom God who creates the disasters and the monsters on Earth but man kinds own ignorance in the first place. Instead of blaming ourselves we blame God instead. Death is just telling you that your time is up and God does not fear your death or worry to much about saving you from this world. It is what you learned while you were here and what happens next that matters. You can condemn every person on Earth and every church or religion and usually find that there is a conflict of interest between Earthly agendas and ones true purpose of spiritual growth is what you condemn most. Blame God and the Bible all you want and you miss the point if you do not understand the purpose. Your idea of good deeds may not even be considered good by God at all. A good deed is sometimes just the ability to stand up to evil and tell them they offer you no sanctuary and nothing in Heaven.
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tillsontitanposted 13 years ago
Call Him what you will, God, Yaweh, Allah, The Great Spirit...He must exist. In addition to all the hurt and ugliness in the world there is comfort and beauty as well. God created man with free will which leads him into the horrible things we witness on earth. The Bible wasn't written by God but man. It was guided by God. Not all things found in the Bible are literal but are used to try to teach us the way to live. The two greatest commandments are “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." and "Love your neighbor as yourself" as said by Jesus in the Bible, again, Matthews interpretation of what was said but the basis of all religion, Love. Is that such a bad thing? Take the love of people like Mother Teresa, while maybe not on the same par as Mother Teresa look what Paul Newman has done to help others, and while you might not like it or disagree with the premise what about all the nuns who have dedicated their lives to helping others? There is ugliness and evil in this world and if that is what you look for you will surely find it, but keeping your eyes and your mind closed to the beauty and goodness is just plain sad. Believing in God is not a fairy tale or a panacea but the truth of a creator and hopefully someone watching over us. We can't know for sure but our faith guides us.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly, you can't know for sure, but an unshakable faith will certainly turn any fairy tale into reality.
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  OutWestposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Faith is action. Nothing to do with fairy tales. The idea that faith is only believing in God is only one part of faith. Following that faith with actions and having faith that your course of actions is right is another.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What action?
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  When you get up at night, you have faith that the floor remains there for you to stnd on. When you receive a check from your employer, you have faith that it is valid. When ypu wriote a check on your bank account, you have faith that the Bank will pay it.l Faith is present in every person. God has given each man the measure of faith. You are not the exception.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I see you too don't know that there are two distinct definitions of faith. You are fallaciously using one to justify the other. Sorry, doesn't work that way.
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, every time you do something and expect to accomplish a particular outcome, you exercise faith. Every time you you succeed, you give crediot to luck, fate, coincidence or whatever. Faith is faith.
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again, there are two distinct definitions of faith. You are providing examples of only one, that which is faith in evidence. That has nothing to do with faith in God.
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  Don Crowsonposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
  
  Hebrews 11:1 Covers every act of faith known to man. Can you give an instance in which that definition does not apply?
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  A Troubled Manposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but no dictionary would ever print that nonsense as a definition for faith.
  
  That's nothing but wishful thinking.
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  tirelesstravelerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We put our faith in many things daily without thought. For instance a chair. You sit in it without thinking, because you assume that chairs will hold your weight. Not always true, but true most of the time.
  The idea of a healthy child coming into the world alive is ludicrous. The statical odds of so many systems working, after being put through the stress of the birthing process, are millions to one. Yet we see babies born perfectly healthy every day. It would be insanity to have a child without faith that there was a possibility the child would be born alive. You all have faith my friends, its just a matter of what you focus.
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paarsurreyposted 13 years ago
A deed is good if it is in alignment with the attributes of the Creator God; else it is an evil.

It is an incorrect premise that the Creator God does not do good; He always does good.
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seanorjohnposted 13 years ago
Give the Guy a break; he did create the universe.
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seigfried23posted 13 years ago
This is true, but objectively irrelevant. In fact, it needn't even be all that true, as someone in a certain part of the world during a certain harrowing time frame could attest (think Plagues, epidemics, etc. Or even today in some unheard-of Sudanese village where a baby is born, lives it's short life perpetually hungry, and dies. Just as an example. You must be willing to look outside yourself and your own little life). You can have faith all you want; it's the silly things most derive as a result of that faith, and try so hard to put on a nonexistent objective pedestal; attempting to argue scientifically about their faith and religions while lambasting science out of the corner of their mouths, dissembling against the scales of "Heaven" - or however the saying goes. Comparing the "faith" one might have in sitting down in Newton's chair with the faith people have in Ogun, Zeus, Jehovah or Yahweh or whatever is the height of dishonest lunacy. The chair never asked Abraham to slit his son's throat.
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  tirelesstravelerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What did Abraham say to Isaac when the boy asked, "Where is the sacrificial lamb".
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  seigfried23posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I dont recall exactly, but I think something cryptic that was supposed to read as clever in the Bible way, but really just came off as rather evasive (I submit that this is rather subjective!). "God will provide the burnt offering", orsomething like that according to the King James version. I do recall that God said "just kidding, here's a sheep or ram instead"; but just imagine the trauma of poor Isaac up until the moment! The saddest thing, though, is that so many are so desperate for life everlasting that I am fairly certain that even if Isaac had been sacrificed in the original story - and he very well MAY have been; the Bible has been changed so many times, who knows what was in the "original" lol - this would cause the faithful no real worries. Why do I suspect this? Because of Job, and how God allowed him to lose his family, basically in a bet with the Devil!!! With the silly end result of Him giving Job another family after the terms of the Divine Bet was ended (frankly; it seems Job could have gotten a new wife and child by himself!) Truthfully, I don't think it matters so much to me personally what He said; if I heard a voice telling me to sacrifice my own son, I'd tell the Voice to kick rocks. Irrespective of the backstory and the lengths to which people often go to explain away the very obvious reality that man wasn't inspired by God; but rather, God was inspired by man, today we would realize that Abraham likely had a mental illness, much like crazy people today who hear voices that tell them to jump out 10th-story windows and obediently do so. In their minds, the voices were as real as can be, and they sadly pay the ultimate price for following those directions. Of course, to me, the Bible is a fantastic book that reads like Tolkien before Tolkien, and Abraham nor anyone else inside haven't been shown to be real characters that adhered to the stated precepts - although they might have been. The magical elements are, of course, man's attempts at explaining a world with which he was unfamiliar, and from which he never wanted to leave (death).
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Google AdSense Host API	This service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
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Google AdSense	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClick	Google provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index Exchange	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
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Facebook Ads	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad Marketplace	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexus	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Openx	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon Project	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLift	This is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say Media	We partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing Pixels	We may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking Pixels	We may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.

Statistics
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Comscore	ComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking Pixel	Some articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
Clicksco	This is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)

Why do people have to do good deeds, but god doesn't have to?

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Why do people have to do good deeds, but god doesn't have to?

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