Tomorrow's Reality is Based on Today's Vision: I want to know...

1. 71

   Seek-n-Findposted 12 years ago

   ...what do you think/envision/dream of/hope for in regards to what the "Church" of tomorrow will look like/be like/feel like?  How will it be different than the Church of today?  How do you envision the Church growing in love and maturity? 
   
   When I was praying today, I felt like God was highlighting to me verses where He talks about "doing a new thing" and I started thinking about how things/people/institutions grow and change over time.  Our thoughts of today become the tools upon which we partner with God and each other to build a better tomorrow.  I'd love to hear about your thoughts/ideas/dreams, etc.  Thank you!

   replyreport
   1. 60

      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      How about an institution where there are no social distinctions? This whole "My God's better than your God" garbage is getting stail. As I am not permitted to partake in religiosity, I would like to find one that isn't about religion. This is of course the setting aside of indoctrination and more the promoting of free thought. A religion in itself, should then be devoid of the persuits of the ego.

      replyreport
      1. 71

         Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I like the idea of an institution where there is unity with diversity--yet all under the umbrella of God and His Ways and His Truth but where there is Freedom for diversity and we embrace what God reveals yet know there is still mystery and where the foundation is love, grace, truth, and freedom.  Thanks for your comment!

         replyreport
         1. 60

            mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            

            replyreport
   2. 66

      leroy64posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      First, I would look at a the written works of HG Wells and the silent movie "Metropolis" by Fritz Lang.  That will give you some idea of Mankind's predictive ability.   Then i would read the writings of the Apostle Paul.
      
      My example:  The Mega churches that seem to dominate today's religions make me uneasy.  I suppose I miss the days when the church was a part of neighborhoods instead of an independent entity drawing from entire regions.  One pastor near me draws people from the entire city,  He is setting up businesses for Christians to frequent and housing for members if they want it.  I do not see how the good intentions of the pastor can last longer than the personality of the pastor.   The system he has set up, of course, will either die out or the system will take on a semblance of life, supported by bureaucratic administrators. 
      
      Do we move forward with a system that isolates its members from the world?  Does such a system overshadow the Pastor's main charge of guiding the flock? 
      
      How does the government see the mega-churches?  Competition?  Allies?  Governments of any kind cannot ignore large gatherings of people.  Politics is a part of the large scale churches by default.
      
      The main advantage of large scale organizations is efficiency; but, there is a danger that the organization becomes the focus, rather than God.

      replyreport
      1. 71

         Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         replyreport
   3. 59

      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What is that feeling and how do you know it is God and how do you distinguish it from other feelings?

      replyreport
      1. 71

         Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         With all due respect, are you sincerely interested in my answer to this question?  Because I don't want to take the time to explain and type it out if your motive is to rip apart whatever I write.  This has been my experience for the most part thus far with interactions with you.  If you already have your mind  made up that I worship an invisible sky fairy that causes evil indoctrination and many troubles on the earth, and that what Christians do is simply ridiculous, do you ask questions like this to gain knowledge and to try to understand or to make fun?  Your motive matters to me.  I think I have a perfectly legitimate reason for asking you this, based on the pattern of responses I've seen from you in the forums.  And if you are sincerely interested in understanding then I apologize, but this is not the impression that I get.  Thank you.

         replyreport
         1. 59

            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I have asked this question before an not one single believer has every answered it honestly and was hoping someone could.

            replyreport
            1. 71

               Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Take a look at this link--it gives an overview in a nutshell.  This is not the only way--but a way--a most common way.
               
               http://www.cwgministries.org/Four-Keys- … Gods-Voice

               replyreport
               1. 59

                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Key#1 - God's voice comes as spontaneous thoughts, visions, feelings, or impressions. Therefore, when you want to hear from God, tune to chance-encounter or spontaneous thoughts.
                  
                  Impossible, how does one know those are their own thoughts, visions, feelings and impressions? If all chance encounters and spontaneous thoughts are God speaking, then that would mean we have no thoughts of our own and everything that occurs on the planet by chance is the result of Gods intervention; hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc.
                  
                  Key#2 - To receive the pure word of God, it is very important that my heart be properly focused as I become still because my focus is the source of the intuitive flow. If I fix my eyes upon Jesus, the intuitive flow comes from Jesus. But if I fix my gaze upon some desire of my heart, the intuitive flow comes out of that desire.
                  
                  The heart pumps blood so I have no idea what he's talking about here. It is only the mind that can focus. This key therefore is invalid.
                  
                  Key#3 - I had never thought of opening the eyes of my heart and looking for vision. However, I have come to believe that this is exactly what God wants me to do. He gave me eyes in my heart to see in the spirit the vision and movement of Almighty God.
                  
                  Again, the heart pumps blood and he has made a conclusion that his heart has eyes. Again, this key is invalid as it does not make any sense.
                  
                  Key#4 - I call the process "two-way journaling," and I have found it to be a fabulous catalyst for  clearly discerning God's inner, spontaneous flow, because as I journal I am able to write in faith for long periods of time, simply believing it is God.
                  
                  This one seems to be the weakest reason of all, in that the author merely believes in God because he can sit for long periods of time writing.
                  
                  Sorry Seek-n-Find, but none of these keys really has anything that one can consider valid when it comes to speaking with God.

                  replyreport
                  1. 71

                     Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     He's not saying all spontaneous thoughts are from God--but a spontaneous thought that meets certain criteria (i.e. it would be in line with God's character...if somebody had a thought that said to harm an innocent child and thought it was God, it's not because that would not be in line with God.  Spontaneous thoughts can be from God or from the enemy or from ourself.  Those from God are good and in line with His character; those that are evil or in alignment with the character of the enemy are likely from the enemy; and those that are focused on self are likely from self.
                     
                     He's not talking about the literal heart--he's talking about the "mind-heart"...think of the difference between brain and mind.  There is the soul part of a person--the immaterial part--the part of you that is related to free will--the part of you that is related to your conscience--this is more the idea.
                     
                     The author does not believe in God because he can sit for long periods of time writing. If one seeks God diligently and puts time and effort into knowing Him and being in relationship with Him, journaling is one key among many that is a tool--a way to help focus.   
                     
                     I am not willing to write a long response because this is like step 20 on a journey that you are not even wanting to go on (as far as I can tell) so it just won't make sense to you unless you decide to go on this journey and start at step 1.  I can recommend lots of resources to you for listening/reading if you want to explore this journey, but things of the spirit don't make sense to the flesh.  It can make sense to you if you want to explore it openly.  That part is up to you!

                     replyreport
                     1. 59

                        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Gods character can be jealousy, wrathful and hateful when it suits his purpose. Sorry, I don't buy the 'God is only good' line. He's not.
                        
                        
                        
                        There is no difference, the brain and the mind are one and the same, by definition. There's no such thing as the "mind-heart"
                        
                         
                        
                        Sorry, but the soul has never been shown to exist, however we do have a conscience.
                        
                        
                        
                        Journaling isn't a word in my dictionary. How about the word 'writing'?
                        
                        It doesn't matter how much time one puts into reading the Bible, you can only know so much about God from the Bible, and that's it.
                        
                        
                        
                        Considering that the keys and your explanation so far don't hold any water, the steps are meaningless.
                        
                        
                        
                        Sorry, but the whole thing is bogus so far because you and that author are basing it all on false premises, altered definitions and things that have never been shown to exist.
                        
                        If that's the concept of talking to God, then it is indistinguishable from talking to oneself.

                        replyreport
                        1. 71

                           Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Once again ATM:  You disagree with me and I disagree with you.  Different worlds that we live in.  :-)

                           replyreport
                           1. 59

                              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Yes, you appear to live in a world of fantasy, one where you can make up anything you want, change words to suit other meanings, pretend that organs in the body are something completely different and base your premises on things that have never been shown to exist.
                              
                              It has nothing to do with agreement or disagreement.
                              
                              We live in the same world, but you have made up another one in which to live.

                              replyreport
                              1. 71

                                 Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 From now on, I will only respond to the heart issues that I see because the issue is not one of logic, but is one of the heart.  Should you choose to engage with me on this topic (anything related to God) further, this will be my focus and the angle from which I will respond. 
                                 
                                 The incidents you've experienced are the real world.  The conclusions you've drawn are based upon wolves in sheep's clothing and are not an accurate depiction of a true sheep.  Your desire for freedom is good, yet the bitterness within corrupts its expression.  The freedom you declare for others is the same freedom you yearn for yourself.  Be free to detach from the harm that has been done by those that have claimed one thing and have lived another way.  Healing begins with forgiveness.  There is a better path--your lot in life has not been decided by the actions of those long ago.
                                 
                                 The outlet you've used of expression through writing is a temporary relief in the moment, but the troubled man is still troubled  beneath the image of confidence.  You don't have to live your life according to what others have said.  You don't have to be the person others have labeled you as.  You don't have to prove who you are not--only find who you really are.  There is greatness within--each person is created with a true self and the capacity for greatness.  But there are layers to be shed to expose that greatness and the choice begins with you.  Forgiveness is the first step.  Without it, the poison of bitterness with slowly gnaw away at your true self and will destroy the greatness that lies beneath.

                                 replyreport
                                 1. 59

                                    A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    The heart pumps blood. What else does it do?
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    There you go again making false statements in order to support your beliefs.
                                    
                                    <--- me being bitter. Give the bitterness crap a rest, please.
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    All of that is pure garbage. You continue to make false statements and degrade others in order to defend your beliefs. Very sad, indeed. You should be ashamed.

                                    replyreport
   4. 70

      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      No G/god required to change the world. It requires honest people who understand what Life is about and don't seek out their own delusions for their own damaging purposes.

      replyreport
      1. 71

         Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I do agree that change requires honest people who understand what Life is about and who don't seek out their own delusions for their own damaging purposes.  Thanks for your comment!

         replyreport
2. 60

   intouch with Toniposted 12 years ago

   We need to show love in culturally relevant ways.  The methods must change while the message stays the same.  We must leave the walls of our buildings and interact with those around us the way Jesus did.
   
   You know that saying 'everything old is new again?' I'd like to see an attitude and behavior that was prevalent in the first century church.  One where sacrificing what one had so no one goes without was the norm.  One where people were not afraid of doing and saying what they knew to be right so that everyone would know a God of relationship, not one of religion. That church grew in leaps and bounds.  That 'church', a body of believers, not a self-contained denomination with a country club or we're better than they are mind-set, was blessed and God 'added to their number every day'.  Mark Batterson wrote a wonderful book based on this premise - "Primal".  It talked about stripping away our traditions and 'church culture' which aren't inherently bad in themselves but become stumbling blocks and comfort zones that prohibit growth, and getting back to our first love.

   replyreport
   1. 71

      Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Methods changing and message staying the same...I like that.  I would even say as much as the message being restored to the original message, too!  I agree with a community that focuses on relationship over religion.  I heard a saying once about structure and freedom:  structure is like a path that has been cleared on a hill to allow the skier a safe place to ski but he she goes down that hill and over the bump and has total freedom.  Structure like the banks of a river that helps provide boundaries to keep the river a river that continues to flow but there is freedom in that river.  I'll have to check out that book you mentioned--sounds interesting!  I really think you hit an important point in your last sentence--it's not that all these things are inherently bad--it's just bad when they are used wrongly and produce bad fruit.  Thanks for your comment!

      replyreport
3. 58

   SanXuaryposted 12 years ago

   I actually never wanted to be saved if today's church is what I must live in Heaven. Only by looking much deeper did I realize how shallow the church is and its so called believers. Most are living a great hypocrisy and reaching their highest levels of belief that they stopped learning and growing a long time ago. They do not teach but condemn one another focused only on Earthly purpose. Not understanding the journey to salvation, spiritual growth and maturity, the place in the body, Gods purpose for the individual and a church outside of them. They run their programs towards Earthly results like a school keeping attendance and judge everyone based on their merit on Earthly terms. Not everyone deserves this point of view but living for God can be extremely different then the view they find acceptable to maintain their Earthly status and position to govern and judge others in a purely Earthly social system. We change this view by separating what is Heavenly purpose and growth from Earthly agendas and results here on this planet. When you do this you find wealth in poverty and in people who have no status. You find the people who realized that education was a waste of time, money was a waste of time and refusing to take part in evil that most people find acceptable is still evil. Instead I find people treating symptoms wasting their prayers for Earthly things not understanding that this is the lesson you must learn in order to grow in true spiritual terms. We our seeking Heaven and not this temporary life on Earth. Go to God first and you will be rewarded on Earth with the things you need and you will serve Gods purpose and not your own.

   replyreport
   1. 71

      Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with many of your points.  I think that the Church is in a season of purification and its time for her to reflect the glory of God and act as a mature bride--to put away childish things--and to be true, heavenly ambassadors of the Kingdom.  Much of the church in its current state is not a representative of the Kingdom of Heaven but I am hopeful that she shall be transformed and become that representative and fulfill the prayer of Jesus, "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven."  Going to God first is key.  Loving Him first is key.  Trusting in His ways above our own ways is key.  Thanks for your comment!

      replyreport
4. 59

   WD Curry 111posted 12 years ago

   Funny you should ask. I have been thinking about this.The church has taken in a lot of money. What is up with all of these Chrystal Cathedrals, Majesty Buildings, cars, clothes, houses, planes broadcasting empires and theme parks? We should be investing in community clinics, community building, and community outreach.
   
   Here is what can be done. I've done it. I went on from here to help build a post secondary vocational program. The state government pulled the plug on funding.
   
   This is the United States. The government should not be funding these efforts, the private sector should. Republicans . . . put your money where your mouth is and fund these kinds of efforts. Can only the tax man pry a nickle out of your hand? Democrats - you are good at setting up programs. I have talked to the Republicans, and urged them to help you and the Church fund them. I need a salary. Don't muzzle the ox. I could live for a year on the price of one of those gilded thrones I see on Trinity Broadcasting Network.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Money I have none, but what I have, I give freely. Stand up and walk!

   replyreport
   1. 68

      Michele Travisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Great comment.  How much money do politicians  have?  How much money does the Catholic Church in Rome have?  How much money does Joel Ostein have, or other preachers on tv?  How much do they give back?  I think anybody can anwser these questions.

      replyreport
   2. 71

      Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Yes--its not that the church should be poor and not care about money, but should be good stewards of wealth and have much to give much--in all areas of life--to offer wholistic support and help and acts of mercy and justice to not just individuals, but cities and regions and nations.
      
      
      
      That verse just really jumped out at me.  Thank you for including that.  I was having a conversation with my good friend yesterday and she said, "I feel like God keeps telling me something about walking--about walking for Him."  I didn't quite understand but as soon as I read your comment the lightbulb went on.  As we go out and give to all those who can't "walk" they can join us in walking and those that have to give increase and those that are able to receive increase.  I have much to ponder...thanks for your feedback!

      replyreport
5. 60

   kayecandlesposted 12 years ago

   love your replies Seek-n-Find.

   replyreport
   1. 71

      Seek-n-Findposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you kaycandles.  :-)

      replyreport