I have often wondered if we were to make first contact with an advanced alien race, how would that change the view on religion and God. Religion seems to assume God made the earth and all the creatures on it with humans at the pinnacle of that life. What if we met aliens were were more advanced and intelligent then we? What if they showed us that we are not the pinnacle of 'gods creation'? Would people still find a way to believe in their religions?
What if those aliens said 'Um, actually we made you guys, quite a while ago now, mostly to see if we could'? Could you still believe you were made by God? Would those aliens be your Gods?
I don't see where first contact with another race of beings would or could interfere with the fact that God the Creator of all is God.
Here we have the answer, no amount of facts will change the believers beliefs.
If aliens made us, then they would be our God...
The question is, what kind of aliens? If we met aliens that were human, I think it would be a grand testament to religion. I actually think this is the case, but we would probably be so far apart for it to be impossible for us to contact each other. After all, the universe is really, really big. Really.
It depends on where we and aliens at last meet for that kind of discussion. If we launch up to meet them at their home, we'll claim to be their gods, because we're intelligent than them. If they launch to follow us down to the earth to claim they're the gods, we shall ask them that why have they delayed all those ages until we obtained this god we have now. They'll first have to conquer this god we have to make us trust them.
when first seeing the question, i would say it would make no difference. however , if the aliens came strait out and said we made you, and had proof, then of course that changes everything.
Well, its a huge "what if" question. If it did happen though, perhaps some might consider if they could be the intelligence with a mind that put forth the decision and precision it would take to have all we see and observe. So the particular details would matter. As of yet, there hasn't been anything quite like what we see as God's own revelation of himself to us in the various ways he has. Jesus being the biggest. If the scenario you describe were true, that idea would have a lot of obstacles to overcome, like why the silence until now, and why now the huge 180 degree turn in sharing itself suddenly.
Cracked.com had a funny article on which religions are most and least affected by contact with aliens. Their ruling was that Buddhism and Hinduism, which already see other animals as having souls, would have the least issue with contact with aliens, though Hindus might have to rearrange the caste system.
The monotheist faiths, it said, would have the hardest time reconciling aliens with the faith.
Who made the aliens? The first time I heard this, I almost fell out of the VW Bus. My hippy beads got caught on an exposed spring on the seat and saved me. My pony tail got all tangled up. I had to ask again, "Who made the aliens?"
LOL, don't you get it, God is the alien, or the race of aliens who came to our planet millennia ago when early mankind with their still primative understanding turned them into gods.
Yes according to Arthur C Clark's 2001 Space Odyssey. I'm sure the original black monolith is in Area 51.
He could just be an alien overlord on a distant planet, overseeing all his domains, none knowing of the other, all wondering where he is.. all except those that live with him.
If the aliens showed us that they had stopped here a few million years back and adjusted some simians DNA to start us along, the only thing that would change is that brighter people might take their religious texts less seriously.
Most, however, would just say that they always looked at it as allegory and wouldn't change their minds at all. Even if the aliens were all atheists, the theists would either just ignore that or insist that they are tools of the devil and the nonsense goes on forever.
Without answers to our most basic questions, religion would lumber on. If the aliens claimed they made us, I'd need proof. That's an incredibly long time from point A to B. So a civilization that had lasted that long could certainly be advanced enough; doesn't mean they did.
However, setting things in motion for evolution to take place isn't universe building. So we'd need an explanation there. A total explanation. Everything from a blueprint of how it was done, to where stuff goes when black holes disappear.
It's a giant leap from saying 'We did it' to proving it. It would take us hundreds of years to verify. After that? If they are telling the truth? I would think religion would be dead.
We tell the theists all kinds of provable truth now and they ignore it..
Are you an all knowing alien? I don't think so.
I'm saying that, for example, we know full well that the Earth is not 4,000 years old. Yet some fundies refuse to believe that.
No matter what proof an advanced civilization offered, there would be fools here who would reject it.
Of course. There will be a few hold outs. But religion will be effectively dead once we have all of the answers. I would think. What purpose could it serve?
I think you will find Pc is an alien, I remember his old avatar with all that colorful hair, the current one is a decoy to blend in
Do you have provable, scientific proof(which would prove in a proving way) that there is no God?
I do have logical proof. It would never satisfy a theist or even many agnostics, but I consider it irrefutable.
Any complex being must be composed of simpler parts.
Those simpler parts had to exist before the being.
Therefore, any supposed god either has to be the product of evolution as we are or a fortuitous assembly of the parts. It is no "god". It's just a creature like us.
Part of the greater natural workings of the universe.
A couple of problems with that. If matter is eternal, then why would it have to have existed in its most basic form at some point? If matter can be eternal, then so can complex arrangements of matter. That idea has a sense of a 'beginning' in it.
Secondly, it would be possible for a being to evolve and discover how to manipulate, let's call it 'energy', to overcome mortality and manipulate the elements. There is no reason to think our universe is the only one, so maybe this being figured out how to travel between universes or dimensions, and figured out how to create its own universes. In fact, if you look at it from a statistical standpoint, it is more likely that this did happen than didn't.
Here's why: We have our universe. Everything we know is internal to our universe and relative to our space-time that started with the Big Bang. Outside of our universe could be anything, but if dense energy could exist somewhere in this 'outer area' in one instance, and we assume this 'outer area' to be infinite and eternal, then it would stand to reason that there would also be an infinite number of these energy-balls, and an infinite number of universes.
Just one way of looking at it, but your logic doesn't hold up.
As I said, I expect an theist or agnostic to reject it.
It doesn't matter. Wave your arms, pretend it isn't true. Be happy. It's fine with me. I have no problems with your unwillingness to accept my logic.
Why aren't you willing to discuss? You just dismiss ideas that don't necessarily agree with you.
You are saying it would be impossible for that to happen?
I didn't "dismiss" anything. I just said that I don't care if you can't accept the logic. I don't care if you don't understand it, I don't care if you don't even read it. I am not trying to convert theists or agnostics.
Forgive me, I assumed that since you were posting on a discussion forum, that you would be open to... discussion.
As to disproving gods, but not a creator, that's not true. If this being did evolve into one who could create our world, that being would be a creator, and by definition, God.
No, a creator is not "by definition" a god. A god has other attributes.
But if you want to use words for your own purposes, go ahead. I'm not going to argue with you.
God: a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality.
If a being 'evolved' into one who could create a universe and give commandments, that would be a God.
Yeah. As I've said before, we could even be the accidental product of someone else's physics experiments.
So what? No matter how knowledgable or advanced, it's not a god. You didn't ask me to disprove a *creator*. My logic disproves gods. We can't disprove a creator - not yet, anyway.
I doubt that aliens would claim that they created the universe, but maybe that they played a role in our evolution.
What if there was a weird twist? What if in their history there had been a 'special' one called, lets say, Jeebus, and there were thousands of sects of something similar to christianity as well as probably a whole host of other religions similar or different to ours?
Does it mean they are just as strange as we are, only with a boat load more tech? Or would it be too much of a coincidence and thus convert more human atheists (and possibly alien atheists)?
Oh the religious wars we could have then.......
I think the believers will not change. They will believe in the imaginary God even after the Aliens visit our earth. Rather they will say, God has sent Aliens to the earth.
I am a bit aggravated, I wrote this really long reply and tried to post it but it didn't post for some reason. So, I will attempt a condensed version and see what happens.
I have spent much of the last 25 years researching the possible connection between religion and science, so this is quite interesting to find this hub simply by chance. I think there would be many fanatics that would refuse to question their own religion, whether it be out of fear or loyalty or whatever. Wars would probably result as they almost always do every time a religious belief is questioned. What so many people don't come to terms with is that religion is supposed to be questioned, it is right there in the writing of almost every religion through out history. People are supposed to seek out the truth whatever that might be. If aliens did make an appearance at this point in time it would likely be a disaster, that could well be why they haven't. If you do a bit of research you would find that the oldest known religion in the world actually states that we were in fact created by a superior race as slaves to help them mine for precious materials, specifically gold. Furthermore, many of the stories told in the Bible are simple echoing the stories told in their writings, just credited to a different source. Another interesting topic is how the Bible was created, it was commissioned by a King and was severely censored by those in power at the time, they left out nearly 10 times more writings than they included, though over half of what was omitted was considered as authentic as what they chose to include. I am only beginning to scratch the surface of the wealth of information that is available to anyone who desires to do a bit of research.
Have you checked out the book of Mary (believed to be Mary Magdalene as she was a disciple of Jesus, but being a woman... )?
I have read much on the subject, she wrote volumes of literature, yet none of it was included in the Bible. The fact is that she was closer to Jesus than any of the other disciples, there is mention of them being jealous in several of their own accounts, but she was a woman so her words meant nothing.
What I have never received an adequate explanation for is if mankind was created by aliens, and we were slaves, where are those aliens now? Did they get bored with their new pets and abandon us like a dog on a beach after Christmas, or was there a Stargate style rebellion?
I mean no disrespect, everyone has a right to their opinions, but I could easily say the same thing for God. Where is he has he abandoned us?
I'd rather believe in aliens babble instead of listening to crap from priests, that's for sure.
I got a good chuckle reading these posts. Went from religion vs aliens to what of aliens made us and finished right back at God doesn't exist anyway!
To the original post: I think aliens would shed some light on a few things, and shake up some believers. I think we need to accept in life that we don't know everything. A lot of Christians think they do know everything so aliens might be a problem for them.
Once again we see atheism trying to take on a religious format. It's close to scientology but more like SCIENCology.
Aliens now replace Angels and popular fiction begins to mould concepts of alleged alien cultures. There is more chance aliens would also have religions as the same universal existential paradoxes faces all sentient beings.
"What would a first contact with Aliens do to religion?"
Perhaps the answer to that question is not hidden truth.
For those who seek truth than start with Genesis 6:4.
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."
There is much information on the internet and in books to study and form ones own conclusions.
ALIENS IN THE BIBLE: from the forbidden knowledge / hard truth
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/ha … nbible.htm
Wikipedia: Nephilim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim
Just throwing out a few very strong references for anyone who is interested.
Thank you colorful one for the interesting and informative info. Are you aware the Vatican has a telescope named LUCIFER on Mt Graham in Arizona and there is a UN observatory on the snow-capped Mt Hermon in Israel? According to the Book of Enoch Mt Hermon is where the fallen angels landed on earth. Like the Bermuda Triangle, Area 51, the LA Triangle, and other mysterious places Mt Hermon is near the 33deg latitude. Notice 33rd Degree!
I had not heard about the Vatican's telescope named LUCIFER on Mt Graham. I watched a video about it on YouTube. Interesting that they are looking for UFOs and other plants that have life, etc. Their telescope is suppose to be able to take better pictures than Hubble.
There is much to learn surrounding Mt Hermon. In my recent end times research Enoch is talked about often by scholars. I am reading it now. Thanks!
What does 33rd degree have to do with anything? What is the significance?
Not much. Area 51 is at 36*+, Mt. Hermon is at 32*+, the Bermuda Triangle at roughly 25* and a search for la trangle produced no information.
The LA Triangle is off the coast of Los Angeles, the City of Angels, near Catalina. During WW2 mysterious lights appearing to be aircraft were spotted there. Fighter planes and antiaircraft gun fired at them but they got away at a very high speed. Like I mentioned the Georgia Guidestones are at the 33° approximately where it intersects with the Devil's Axis. H.A.
I just learned about the Georgia Guidestones last week.
Another one of those phenomenons.
The ideal population those Rosecrucians are looking for will require something like a massive Ebola outbreak, nuclear attack, civil war, possibly a race war, food & water shortages, natural-disasters, etc. Already FEMA camps are set-up and 30,000 Chinese-made guillotines are already in the U.S. The state of Georgia has already authorized execution by guillotine and "decapitation" is mentioned in ObamaCare. Martial-law under Antichrist Obama by year-end. Birther Trump is too little - too late.
The 33d Degree is supposedly the highest level in Freemasonry and our 33rd President Truman was one. He voted for Israel to become a nation and authorized the atomic bombs being dropped on Japan. There is great doubt FDR would have done either of those actions. So the evil-cabal of global-elite had to get socialist VP Wallace off the 1944 ticket and a Mason or Bonesman on. Then they had to get FDR gone. The undertaker who dressed FDR's body for burial said there was a gunshot wound to the head and it might have been self-inflicted. You will notice the Georgia Guidestones are also near the 33d degree latitude as the other mysterious places I mentioned are. So is Madagascar.
Well I've noticed that the number 33 is very significant in the occult,and other things. In physics, etc. We also have 33 vertebrae,and I think it may have something to do with Kundalini and enlightenment.
But any number (probably less than 50 or 100) is significant. We have 2 eyes, 1 nose and 206 bones. There are 8 planets, and we are on the 3rd one. Carbon (the basis of our life) has 12 protons, and Oxygen has 16. Water has 3 atoms (back to 3!) and there are 3 primary colors. 10 fingers and toes (the basis of our number system). 3.14159 is pretty important.
Point being that you can find something important (at least to humans) of just about any number you can think of.
Yes I know. I am being metaphysical today, not logical.
And yes, I know that, too. Just poking again (and at the good Sgt. as well) - I enjoy our conversations.
I know for a fact Congressman Paul Ryan is a Freemason as are most career politicians. I wouldn't doubt in the least Wilderness is one too as they tend to question the sanity of anyone who mentions that worldwide secret society. There goal is a New World Order to worship Lucifer.
If you are privy to their secret goals and membership rolls, can I assume you are one as well?
This is pretty neat; I've never been accused of being a freemason before! Something new every day, isn't there?
That's hilarious. The Freemasons in my town are known for things like giving away bikes to poor kids. I wonder when they have the time for their secret agendas to take over the world.
I'm surprised you didn't mention they bring potato salad to potluck dinners. Most Freemasons are Luciferrians just like the Jesuits.
My kids spent a little time in Demolay (sp?) but that was my only real contact. I HAVE seem some of their works, though, just as you say. Guess it's a grand plot to deceive the world.
No I'm just a VFW Life member, but I'm guessing you can pronounce 'shibboleth. and wear a Rolex.
I too am glad I have an outlet to validate my proclamation that Kenyan-born Obama IS The Antichrist and Pope Francis is his False Prophet. Get saved before The Rapture!
No need...I'm already saved. From the far right religious ramblings and from the conspiracy theorists at least, all by the use of reason. No need for any more saving.
Wilderness, do you know the wealth of JPMorgan originated with Captain Morgan the Pirate. J.P. Morgan Jr owned the Lusitania and J.P.Logan Sr owned the Titanic which was really the RMS Olympic?
I know of a thousand hidden secrets. Everything they taught us in history class is basically a lie. The mainstream media feeds us pabulum and fairy tales.
+1 "The mainstream media feeds us pabulum and fairy tales." Yes!
I think Wilderness knows that too, and that he just might like to debate.
Personally, I'm not a debater but I like to follow along.
I couldn't reply to "your" post janesix, I had to go up to do so.
Anyway, have a good night.
In my opinion, contact with a highly advanced alien race would establish that they have accepted that a primal consciousness is fundamental to our ability to reason as well as the illusion of material existence.
The LA Triangle I mentioned above is supposedly a wormhole to inner-earth and a stairway to the lower parts of Heaven.
Sgt, you comment lead me to find out about the Lake Michigan Triangle.
Good to know. Thanks for the info on Lake Michigan, I am already researching it. Please consider my heartfelt and well-researched belief Obama was not only born in Kenya, but he IS The Antichrist. Pope Francis is merely The False Prophet. The time is short before The Rapture and martial-law.
Obama is not the antichrist (not to say he isn't influenced by a / the anitchrist).
The Scriptures are a measuring stick as to what is true and what is false. God made sure we would know full well who or what the antichrist is. There are many antichrists but there is only one that fits the bill on all points of Bible prophesy in the Book Of Daniel. That is the papacy (a system and not individuals).
http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-libra … antichrist
As false doctrines go you will need to read this. Peter was NOT the first pope. That contradicts the The Written Word (it is false teaching).
Everyone needs to know the truth and to have a free will to anchor in to Christ and the written Word of God, or follow the antichrist's false teaching. Most will follow the antichrist in the end days because they will be / are deceived. It is written!
Thanks for more good stuff. The man of lawlessness Obama and Italian-born(in Argentina) Jesuit Pope Francis the False Prophet are deceiving even the very elect.
See Matthew 24:24 & Mark 13:22! Also my Profile if you care to. I read yours already and found it touching and not rabid like mine. In the meantime I will checkout the links you left.
Kevin, I got to thinking about Obama's five unelected judges who he had rewrite our The Constitution. Maybe you are right about Obama being "a antichrist". That certainly does parallel with rewriting the Written Word as the papacy did.
We cannot stop prophesy and what believer would want to.
I read your profile. - Cheers!
Indeed, the Papacy is the Antichrist System from the Bible. This system is mentioned under different names and symbols too, such as antichrist, man of lawlessness, beast from the sea from Revelation 13, Mystery Babylon from Revelation 17, the little horn from Daniel 7, and the Abomination of Desolation. For a more in-depth study, please check https://www.endtimesalvation.com/who-is-the-antichrist/
As an aside I noticed the sites you posted nearly match Good News
Magazine and some 7th Day Adventist stuff I've read. I too believe Saturday is the sabbath but have been a born-again believer since '79 always going to church on Sunday. My wife refuses to consider any church but the formerly Baptist church we have been members of for over 15yrs. The SDA forbids eating pork so I ruled them out as I can't refuse bacon. Any thoughts?
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