Does have faith help us to get a cure, while all the healing is going on? Does prayer helps the healing go faster, or more effectively? Is prayer doing something or doing nothing to help us get a cure from the healing process? We doctors are always striving to get a cure, and most of the time, are willing do do anything and try anything, as long as we get "the cure." Are we correct or is "the cure everything that matters?"
Thank you for writing what you think about this.
Hello Dr. H.
This is an interesting subject coming from a doctor. I wonder, however, why a doctor would be asking nonprofessionals for their scientific opinions. Are you a medical doctor, perhaps? You use the term “we doctors” in your opening statement.
There is a huge amount of research in the area of prayer and healing. Why not just enter “prayer and healing” into a search engine and learn the facts from experts? It took me less than 40 seconds to find two such studies.
“In the first study, researchers looked at whether prayer on behalf of a patient could assist recovery from bypass surgery. A third of the patients were prayed for after being told that this might or might not be done; a third did not receive prayer; and a third received prayer after being told this would occur. The researchers concluded that prayer had no effect on complication-free recovery from bypass.
In the second study, researchers randomly assigned patients to one of four groups before elective cardiac catheterization and angiography. One group received standard care. The others, in addition to standard care, received either prayer; music, imagery, and touch (MIT) therapy; or both prayer and MIT therapy. MIT therapy included instruction in meditation and deep breathing, and the application of "healing touch" hand positions by trained practitioners. The investigators found that neither prayer nor MIT therapy was beneficial in preventing subsequent heart problems.” (1)
There are numerous others studies and the results are about the same. Thank you, Dr. H., for asking us to do your research for you. It is not exactly what I would expect from a doctor with an advanced degree.
(1)http://www.health.harvard.edu/press_rel … erventions
Thank you, Quilligrapher,
Thank you for both the criticisms and for the very wonderful research that you have done. You have done quality research (a literature review, actually, which is the first step in doing quality medical research).
I am a medical doctor, retired. I used to see patients in primary care clinics and was very good at it, if I have to say so myself. My best work, however, also in the past, was working as a bone-marrow transplantation researcher. I was pretty good as a researcher also. I still work and teach and write on the HubPages so that people can read my work free of charge. I spend a lot of time learning, however, just like everybody else.
I like teaching people to dig out information, and work for it, learning it the "hard way," sometimes, instead of having doctors, like myself, "spoon-feed" to them. You have been a wonderful example for how people can seek out good information and share it with others. I am happy to have you criticize me, openly, and severely, for having you do research and then share it with others like yourself on the HubPages. You make me happy. I am really proud of you. Take care. Dr. Haddox
Nor I. Of course, on internet forums where one can remain anonymous, I've found that those who place Dr. in their userids, sign all of their posts with Dr. and continuously say things like "we doctors" are not doctors at all.
I then began to read some of the good doctors hubs and was appalled to find he believes whenever their is a plane crash, the ones who survived were the ones who were faithful to Jesus and thus saved by Jesus, an insult to every single person who has ever died in a plane crash, faithful or not.
As a certified doctor, I think I and my doctor associates would likely prescribe some sort of anti-depressant or mood-improving medicine to you. The prestigious medical school I attended and my esteemed fellow doctors believe strongly that if one is not religious, one is missing out on key elements of life.
Of course, this is only the opinion of a humble, rather young (but I assure you, completely certified!) doctor. Did I mention I was a doctor?
I highly suggest some sort of asinine cure for your nonexistent problems.
I'm also a doctor.
Hoping to see you in my backwoods practice soon!
Ah, so you agree with your associate doctor that Jesus saves people in disasters because they are faithful and you don't find that insulting? And, it is me who needs an anti-depressant or mood-improving medicine as a result?
Sadly, I do not agree with my associate doctor in the least.
But I am still a doctor.
Don't forget that.
I am sorry that you have to suffer insults because you have associated yourself with my work. Actually, I write because I want to help people, not hurt people. I have practiced medicine for years and have helped many people and have helped to save many lives, and after all this work I have not earned the respect that I deserve. It's okay though, it does not matter, really. You said it well, we are still doctors, and we have earned that right. You are loved and appreciated by me and by all who know well (we went through a lot to learn what we know. Nobody gave us anything) what you have to live with, as a doctor. Take care. Dr. Haddox
To: A Troubled Man
From: Dr. Haddox
I would like to reach a truce with you.
You have made your point, loud and clear.
Somebody's going to get hurt if we keep this "warfare" kind of dialogue going.
The young lady doctor Shanna, don't have the experience in life that I have.
She probably has not reached the point in her life where I am, so she has not come to know that it does not make a difference if we are doctors or not, if we cause harm or trouble or cause people like you to hate us.
Okay, you are right, I too have to be careful how I write, and express myself and say words, so that they are not misunderstood. If people do not want to pray, they do not have to pray. It is true, that a loving god loves everybody, the good and the bad, the just and the unjust, and makes his light shine upon the good and the bad alike.
Believe what you want to believe, so long as we don't hurt people trying to force our ways.
I am finished with this. And as we go, "Peace." Doctor Haddox
Um, I'm really sorry, but I'm not a doctor. I'm still in University. I feel really bad, but you seem so harmless and sweet, so I think I should explain that I was only joking around and trying to be silly in my post. I'm not a doctor in the slightest, and blood makes me woozy. I'm very sorry if you feel tricked or anything-- I really didn't mean to make you think I was a doctor. I'll work on making my poor humor a little more obvious next time!
My Dear Shanna,
It is okay that you are not a doctor. You have character and personality and the courage to admit to a mistake. I would never love you less for having done what you have done. You have made me a better person by helping me to think about Life and about what I am doing and about where I am going in Life. You have helped all of us and you have made all of us better people in this dialogue. There are some who will admit that you have helped us, and there are those will will never admit it. You are still one of us, because all of us are just creatures of the universe, Sisters and Brothers, all of us, upon this Pathway that leads through Life. We are to love each other, with all our hearts, with all our strength, with all our souls. How is it, that we can say, that we love God, if we do not love each other (Jesus said this, not me).
God bless "A Troubled Man," he had a purpose in all of this. How can we say that we love God, and each other, if we say that we hate him. Really and truly, we love him.
Thank you for your friendship, my dear friend, Dr. or not, it matters not.
Although I may not agree with Shanna's belief system, it is obvious to anyone here that in the short time she has been writing posts, she has shown more integrity, character and honesty contained in her pinkie than you could muster in every single thing you've written thus far.
Yes, to expose a hypocritical, dishonest and hate filled hub.
The only person you appear to love is yourself. Doctor, indeed.
Here you are promoting Christianity as if it is where God dwells. Instead of love, it seems to be divisiveness that you are promoting.
But, you will duly ignore and deny it, nonetheless, which you did when I commented on your hub.
There goes that nonsense with being victimized, again. Oh yes, your free to state openly that people who survived a plane crash because they were faithful to God, yet you have no idea just how much hatred that spells out in terms of those who did not and their families who must live on without them.
Notice that all you do is continue promoting your ridiculous beliefs, insulting every single person who ever died in a tragedy, oblivious to the hatred you imply and condone in light of reason, rationale and reality.
The only thing that callous and deplorable hub you wrote is to hurt and insult. It sickened me to the core and should be banned as hate speech. However, I rise above such petty and selfish words from believers who write such things as I know that all it does is serve to expose religious beliefs for what they really are.
You sir, are no doctor and are not promoting "Peace" of any kind.
Faith, healing, prayers, and getting a so-called "cure from above" has nothing to do with one or the other. Com'on now, be independent and responsible for yourself ... As "brain over body" research is leaning towards such things and "mind over matter" is definitely real, but praying upon a sky god doesn't necessarily fit the bill... Do the math, and you'll see that you're not only responsible for your own self, but that you also have the mind to change things, within reason, of course...
I don't think prayer is 'the cure'. Say for instance you have a threatening hypovolemic shock, you can't treat that solely with prayers since the condition warrants a very immediate management. I think the role of prayers and praying are geared towards improving one's healing process. It constitutes to a person's holism. People have spiritual needs as well Doctor... I don't know if you'd agree but that's what I have observed when I was still in the clinical practice as a nurse. My patients are lifted up when they get to do their spiritual stuff...
I follow you and I have high-regard for your thinking and for your work on the HubPages. You are a wonderful example, for all people, young and old alike, in your work and in your love for Life and Humanity.
Now, by the way, you are correct in your thinking on the role of prayers, praying, and on your thinking about Holistic Medicine. As you say, "Patients are lifted up when they get to do their spiritual stuff," I completely agree, I have seen it to in clinics and hospitals.
Thank you. Dr. Haddox
The last I saw on this issue was that patients who were well supported, ie loved, did better than those who were not. I guess that for the religious-minded somebody praying for them is a demonstration of love. I cannot imagine any feasible good coming from praying for someone without them knowing it was going on. This aspect of religion in praying for someone to 'get' something is where genuine and useful spirituality devolves into useless mumbo-jumbo.
Your comments and thoughts on the subject of prayer is greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and feelings.
When I was a medical student, studying at one of the Big Ten medical schools in the Mid-Western United States of America, I was lucky enough to have a couple of Dutch surgeons, one a vascular surgeon and the other a general surgeons teaching me, in the hospital, as we rotated on the surgical wards. Before I could touch a patient, they always made me "wash my hands, first," and then "pray for the patient, second." (before I touched the patient). I worked with these doctors on my surgical rotation for 18 weeks, I only needed to stay with them for 12 weeks. During that time, "we never lost a patient," and we saw many, night and day. It sounds like mumbo-jumbo, but I have given you one example. Now I pray out of habit. I am an old person now, and I have a good life, for the most part. Again, thank you for your input "recommend1."
I read in a medical journal once while in school, I went for Occupational therapy assistant, anyway, it seems that patients seem to do better overall if they have Doctors who have faith and who pray. Now whether there is anything to it I don't know but myself, I believe that faith does wonders for the body.
Remember the placibo effect. If you believe anything strong enough I believe anything can happen.
Hello Diane Inside,
I have read that, that is, I have read reports that support what you have said, above about prayer, and doctors who have faith and pray. There is something to it. Of course, we cannot explain all the detail. We don't know everything yet.
Thank you. Dr. Haddox
(your post was the last one I had to answer, have a wonderful night)
I don't think prayer is a cure either. I think it helps to improve the mindset of that person. Sometimes the psychological well being of the person is what helps the physical body heal itself. That is a tough question to answer. Thanks for asking it, because it really made me think!
Very good reply, rlaha. The immune system is very complex, and it has been proven in many situations that the psychological well being of the person, as you have said, helps the physical body to heal itself. As a bone marrow transplantation researcher, my work was closely associated with the immune system, which has a lot to do with healing. As you have noted, if prayer, somehow results in a situation where psychological well being is increased, this alone, can help increase the "power" of the immune system. If the immune system is more effective, then healing is going occur more effectively and more completely.
Thank you, rlaha.
Regards, Dr. Haddox
Nonetheless, prayer is not needed to increase psychological well-being...and is completely useless and silly to some of us.
You are correct, getitrite. Prayer is not needed to increase psychological well-being. Have a great weekend. Dr. Haddox
While prayer may not be needed for some people, other people actually do turn to it for help.
Prayer is completely useless. It has been proven to be useless. Therefore, only those who have completely deluded themselves still believe in its efficacy.
I don't think it is completely useless. It has helped me through some really tough situations in my life. Maybe it hasn't helped you, and I am sorry. But it has helped me.
You are mistaken. Prayer did not help you. You simply beat the odds. Just as talking to the ceiling cannot change an outcome, neither can clasping your hands together and talking to yourself change anything. Prayer is useless. Odds and Probabilities is science.
Really? I do not think so. In my case I could have died, I could have been raped, I could have been run over by a train, I could have been run over by an 18 wheeler. All of these times, I prayed. I prayed for strength and help did come along. I did not die, nor did I end up in a bad situation. Now, please, you tell me. I don't think I could have "beat the odds" as you say. Someone was watching out for me. Whoever it was, I thank them every day.
No matter what you think, there was nothing supernatural about your outcome. This kind of thinking is merely the rigid default of your indoctrination.
Your praying had nothing to do with the outcome. Your action along with other factors influenced the outcome, hench...you beat the odds.
Your reasoning is elementary...and you refuse to even accept the proven scientific model of Odds and Probabilities, in lieu of hocus pocus nonsense. In your illogical pursuit of your absurd beliefs you have shown no respect for reason or common sense.
Yeah, right! And just what makes you so special...while thousands of children, all over the world, starve to death daily. What a narcissistic and immoral belief system.
There is NOTHING watching over you. I'm sure you know how odds and probabilities work. To continue to insist that something supernatural cares about you, at this point, is completely absurd.
I believe we're just beginning to scratch the metaphorical surface of the connection between mind, spirit, and body. Of course, as a Christian, I believe in the payer of prayer, but even from a non-religious standpoint, I think there's a strong connection between a healthy attitude and a healthier body.
Habee, first I would like to say "thank you" to you for contributing to my work here. You are a good example to me and to all other Hubers as noted by 100 scoring, level of performance. That being said, you are correct in your thinking, and about all that you said in your comment. You got it right, "we are just scratching the surface. It is a Joy working with you. Take care.
Dear Skyfire, thank you for your wonderful input. You are a blessing. Peace.
That would be a cute little picture to wave at a St. Jude's hospital full of dying young children, no wouldn't it? Are you human, may I ask? Or do you live in an animated world full of cartoons? LOL @ YOU!
Reminds me of this : http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie … ority.html
It works both ways.
I hear stong echoes of someone once saying: "Be it unto you according to your faith." (And many died from the bites of the vipers because they wouldn't look and live.)
Thank you for stating the obvious, as well. As I do have faith that when I put my feet upon the floor I will stand erect. However faith in imaginary characters is useless to me.
Hold on to your faith and believe. At times, this is all the hope that we have.
Faith and prayers are both possible to heal. According to scientific research, or my contextual knowledge, a positive equanimity of the mind can bring in positive results, including the temporary subservience of suffering and the stimulus to heal any sickness. As long as you believe that you will recover, by the law of attraction, you will.
I have faith that I will regrow an amputated limb. Do you think that I will be healed just because I believe? It appears that you are implying this by your assertion.
Your faith will be tested, hold fast to your faith.
Don't let "your" faith be shaken, lest you come to grief.
So maybe you can answer. Can faith regrow my amputated limb?
If yes, then site some sources. If no, please explain why.
No use quoting the sources ,because you don't believe it? like hello...
Are you saying that you actually have reliable peer reviewed sources that an amputated limb has been regrown through prayer?
Would you be willing to challenge me in a court of law?
You would quickly see that your "sources" are mindless lies...and extremely laughable.
Sorry for my mistake...I forgot to add a disclaimer that my viewpoint is only valid for non-terminal illnesses and ailments.
Our dialogue has taken us beyond the level of my expertise. I am simply listening and learning from you all "as we travel this path called ""Life."" Continue to write, to learn, to meditate, to pray, to contemplate, to grapple with your ideas, or to do whatever it is that you do.
I am a fairly decent healer but I have never regrown limbs or raised the dead. Some things are beyond me. I am too human "to walk on water."
Best regards to all of you,
Good joke. Try your positive thinking on apple that is falling from tree. No matter what your prayers do or law of attraction attempts, apple will fall down due to gravity. No amount of prayer, faith will bring apple back to it's place.
Ah, but an apple wasn't meant to (or designed to) stay on the tree.
Design? lol. It's about gravity, not design. Same applies to body parts that are fixed due to medical research. As per your assumption even those flawed body parts were not supposed to be correct as per evolutionary growth of body. There are many toddlers with such body part defects, their specific parts are possible to fix these days. Why don't you try prayers on that? Flaws in design are solved with action and not with wishful thinking.
I know you are not supposed to promote your own hubs here but my experience of answered prayer is very real. I cannot deny the power of prayer to the believer or of the believer.
My husband and I have both experienced first hand answers to prayer. You can read his story : The Life Changing Power of Prayer. Doctors could not explain the illness which caused multiple organ failure and saw my husband in a coma at 62. As he was coming out of the coma after 3 weeks, he said " there are people behind the curtain praying for me" There were people praying but not behind the curtain as there was another very sick man there. But the sense of people praying was so real that it seemed like they were riight there.
I fail to see how prayer seems to work in the lives of some SPECIAL people, while no amount of prayer seems to help these starving, pitiful children...of God?
How unfair--but...oh well!
Hello Dr. Haddox,
I do believe God can and Will heal the sick and answer prayers. However, I don't believe it always happens with divine evidence. I believe God uses Doctors and people like you as His tools. You are educated and practiced at healing. You care and empathize with your patients. When praying for healing, I don't always expect some unexplained miraculous healing..... What I'm saying is we also pray for the doctors. That God guides there hands in surgery, their hearts in their passion to heal, etc. ---- There's an old fable my Dad told me growing up ---- In short it goes like this....
A man was caught on his roof in a flood. Three times a boat came by to rescue him but he turned them away saying "God wll save me". A helicopter came and he did the same. The man drowned and when he got to Heaven he asked, "Lord, why didn't you save me?" The Lord replied, "Son, I sent you three boats and helicopter."
I don't know what your beliefs are Dr. Haddox, but I believe God uses you everday to aid in his work. Policmen, Firemen, Nurses, and Doctors, and even everyday people can be used for God's will. Can be used to answer prayers.
And I just want to say Thanks to you and those like you for doing what you do.
Imaginary Gods have nothing to do with it. It is the skills of the doctors, firemen, and nurses that saves people's lives.
By giving credit to useless, fabled, imaginary beings, you totally disrespect the skill and effort of these professionals.
I will respect your opinion , Mr. getitrite.
However, I do not think that my believing in God or my comment for that matter was in anyway disrprectful to medical professionals. I hope that Dr. Haddox can see that even if you don't.
Of course you don't see your brutal and blatant disrespect to the valiant effort of these professionals. When someone allows himself or herself to believe in imaginary nonsense, it is impossible to see reality.
Since he seems to be just as delusional as most believers, of course he can see your mindless assertion as logical. Your irrational thinking is firmly inside the box of your delusion.
Your beliefs and your expressions of what you believe are worthy to be shared with others. I am, in no way, insulted by your thoughts, your faith or your feelings about matters of healing. To be truthful, you have disrespected no one. The National Institutes of Health (NIH) have been conducting research for years in an attempt to understand the healing powers of prayer, which is a costly undertaking, but they want to understand how and why prayer, and other alternative methods of healing, works. You notice that I did not say that they were trying to find out "if prayer and other alternative methods" work. Yes, there are methods that they are still struggling to answer the "if" question, but this is not true for prayer. The "how" and "why" are more important in the case of prayer, for the government scientists. Therefore, Kelly, don't allow your faith to be shaken. We walk upon this pathway called Life together, learning as we go.
"Your search - prayer - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing "prayer"."
All you keep doing is confirming you are no doctor, unless it is a doctor of voodoo or magic.
It is obvious to anyone, to a scholar or to a non-scholar alike, that medical people and religious people should work together to help people with their problems. There is no time for bickering, or for hate and discontentment.
Sure, but how does claiming that Jesus saves the faithful in plane crashes while others die help anyone? It does nothing but insult.
As well, could you please explain why there are no documents or anything else regarding prayer on the National Institute of Health site?
Does making stuff to promote religious beliefs help anyone, "Dr." Haddox?
I am making no claims about anything religious or medical at this point. I just want some peace and relief from your harassment and harsh insults. There will never be any harmony on this site as long as you hassle me and others who disagree with your thinking.
I have provided below, information to help you find NIH information on alternative medicine which includes research on prayers. Also, I have provided you with a Mayo Clinic site.
1. Complementary and alternative medicine at Mayo clinic. com
You are intelligent enough to find any information available on any research done by NIH doctors or any other doctors on earth. I could provide you names of doctors that I know who have worked with me but I want. I am afraid that you will insult them.
From this point if you continue to disrespect, insult and "bad-mouth me,
and waste my time and tarnish my work, I have no other recourse but to report these problems to HubPages managers so that I can get some relief from you. I am tired of you insults. Thank you.
Let me get this straight, you come here masquerading as a doctor under the impression we are all just fools and can't see right through that dishonest charade, you then write a hub stating that people who survive in a plane crash were saved by Jesus because the were faithful, completely insulting everyone else who's ever died in a plane crash and their families. And now, you're playing the harassment card and stating that I'm insulting you. Wow!
No, that is NCCAM (National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine) with a caveat from NIH stating they don't hold to nor support whatever NCCAM is claiming about alternative medicine. And although, they do have some information there on prayer, it isn't much more than some statistics regarding how many Americans consider using prayer to make each other feel better.
Sure, there have been studies with prayer showing nothing conclusive. So what?
Yeah right, you insult us all by pretending to be doctor.
Yes, I can understand now that you've been exposed, you must feel incredibly embarrassed. Tarnish your work?
It is a known ohenomenon that positive thinking can have a beneficial effect on all treatments. If someone gives up hope, they most often lose their fight for survival, the will to live. That is the power of prayer. What works for some doesn't work for all. Those who don't believe just think positively. It's the same thing.
Y'all can BELIEVE what you want, but prayer can only affect the person doing the praying. In that respect, it functions like self hypnosis and meditation only - it has no other value. That has been proven over and over again but fools keep thinking otherwise.
Very good Pc. Now how many shoestrings does a shoe have. Tomorrow, we'll count to ten. Oh JOY! I thought we were discussing the effects of prayer as a health benefit. Are you aware that the things you mention also have noticed benefits....I think that is why people do them.
I agree it has benefit for the person doing the praying (or listening, if they believe it). The benefits are no better than those that can be had by hypnosis and meditation - no gods needed.
If there are other who would like to commit on prayer, please do. The forum will remain open for any and all to express themselves. Thank you.
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Has praying to God ever help you? Has your prayers every been answered?
by getitrite 4 years ago
If a hospital was built that only offered prayer, how would those who believe in prayer respond?Would they be faithful, and go, or would they be forced to use their reason, and seek REAL modern medical cures and treatment? But, then, what would this say about their faith?
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