There’s a thread up now with a picture of a shack in the Cayman Islands which claims to be a store in hell. I know the hubber assumed we would all take it for the joke it was intended; but it made me start to wonder.
If hell were real, how large would it have to be if Christians or Muslims were right and billions may be destined to reside there? How large is a ‘soul’? How much space does it take up?
If a ‘soul’ could be defined as little more than the energy that comprises the consciousness of the organism it manipulates….how big is that?
I read once that there are as many atoms in a teaspoon of water as there are teaspoons of water in all of the oceans. I have no idea if this is true or not; but I’ll take it on as much faith as I do the reasoning behind why a module on the space shuttle was the width of two Roman horses butts.
So, assuming that the soul consists of fewer atoms than are present in a miniscule portion of a teaspoon of water…..how big would hell have to be to house a few billion souls?
About 26,000 miles across, it's covered in 73% water and there's 7,000,000,000 people there now.
That's quite a bit larger than I was calculating.
It's the earth, it was a jab at society... Sarcasm.
The Earth is only 7926 miles in diameter, and the circumference is around 24,900 miles. I guess a 26,000 mile diameter is funnier, or more sarcasmic.
Just sarcasm and so what if my measurement is a little off, I was making fun of hell.
Actually you were making a very astute observation.
Just lame, that's all. You have a computer with all the facts at your fingertips, yet you still manage to get things wrong. Typical.
I didn't go to school for earth science... I was an art major, with a minor in theology and I studied everything but my major. I know that it was an unrealistic measurement, I'm not that stupid. Humor needs not accuracy, apparently, niether do believers...
Haha, that's funny. So now I'm a 'believer'. I believe you are lame.
You describe yourself as: Amature archeologist, Palientologist and master martial artist. I can design your landscape but don't ask me to mow your lawn-it's beneath me. It's like asking Picasso to take your picture.
I guess don't ask you to use spellcheck either, that must be beneath you too.
Guess you have been having a bad day huh!
MM made a funny, one I actually thought was quite profound in a weird and probably unintentional way, I don't have any problem that he did not bother to Google precise dimensions before he posted.
So what's YOUR problem?
Hmm... Well even if the human soul was the size of the human body...I would think just about every human who ever lived and was considered a "sinner" would fit within our Sun. But then if we are talking two dimensions, We might need more "standing" room...
Reminds me of the Men in Black movie with the Cat Collar holding a whole universe...
Always big enough for one more.
Many of us are working pretty hard trying to prevent it's fill and growth.
Many are fighting us and resisting the message, making the task that much more difficult.
But, we don't quit!
Let me ask YOU, are YOU in or OUT?
Well AKA - you have helped to convince me that god does not exist and that christianity is nonsense.
That's not NEW information.
You had that conviction YEARS ago!
Wanna chat, or just copy and paste?
No - honestly - it is people like you - and you now - who have convinced me that christianity is nonsense and god does not exist.
God exists for them... It is an existence, allbeit a subjective existance. Their weak little minds can't quite let go of the past and are quite attached to their bedtime stories. They don't know any better, let them have their God, they should just know to keep it on the D.L.
How do you know I have a weak little mind?
What bedtime stories do you assume I heard as a child?
If your mind isn't strengthened by reality and you believe the bible to be 100% true, then yes, your mind is weak.
I do not deny reality.
I embrace what I understand of it.
But, reality does not negate the supernatural, nor does the Bible dismiss reality.
It's the likes of you who dismiss the supernatural/spiritual.
Besides, if you want the mind to be the source and explanation of everything, you are really limiting your life to the five senses.
What stories have I not discarded, that I heard as a child?
Satan for one and the belief in heaven and hell... If it can't be proven by words and ancient scribblings, how do you expect anyone outside of your faith to buy it? Unless their stupid or naive of course...
Is that your answer to what stories I have not discarded?
You make some wild assumptions about me.
You know me really well, don't you?
Perhaps you can tell me who read those stries to me as well?
Let's see, hmmm, I'm getting the letter M, does M mean anything to you? Maybe maaaa something? Maaa, hmm, maaa, Mom!!! Is that it?
Because you still cling to old childish stories as the truth.
The one you sprout as truth.
You entered this conversation with a wrong understanding of what was posted before.
Besides, why are you interacting with an idiot?
Lowers your own level of intelligence, doesn't it?
You are a right arrogant little puppy, aren't you?
I am not arrogant, I just call people names if they don't agree with me.
If I recall correctly, you don't mind name calling yourself!
Oh, but, you guys make up your own morals, so it's perfectly ok for you to do that!
If you want to recall correctly, you should read all the posts between us. Oh! You are a christian, belongs to the race sent by god to judge humans, so you can do it as an when you please!!
No, I'm not a christian to make my own morals.
I am not the first one to call names, but I only say the arguments are nonsense. It is you christians who think they can judge anybody and wish them hell. And I don't make up morals, for I have no magic book. Again it is the job of christians to make up morals by twisting and re-interpreting their magic book.
If you find a place in my posting history where I called someone a name, and it wasn't in jest or sarcastically imitating someone else or something, feel free to notify me. I will recant and apologize.
Indeed, why should you?
If you believe in nothing, why care about anything?
Aww shucks, and I was still enjoying your last funny, then you go throw some rubbish propaganda in again...
It's not propaganda, it's logic. You can have your God, just keep him off my doorstep.
Oh have no fear, I never doorstep folk, all my cases are sent to me on personal recommendation only.
God knows who needs assistance, and the Holy Spirit delivers them to me.
I may on occasion step in when I see an emergency, but I don't do any of the things you guys are afraid of, I don't do street work, door stepping or handing out cranky tracts, I did used to do radio and tv, and of course I write here on the forums and in my pages.
No I have no shortage of folk to work with, your door is safe from me.
Besides, I don't even know your address!
My my what a high opinion you have of yourself. God's right hand man no less.
Not at all, just another Christian doing what is called to do.
That wasn't the point and you know it. How can you prove it's the word of God? How can you do it without spouting scripture or showing biblical contents? Unless one can rationally explain it, in their own words, without the bible, it's absolute nonsense and should be kept in the church or at home.
Well much as I respect you have the right to your opinion, that is ALL it is.
I do not NEED to prove anything, indeed nobody could, what I do is introduce folk to the ONE who CAN and DOES prove it to each individual who will receive what He offers.
Those (like yourself) who refuse to meet with Him, will just have to decide without the evidence being presented.
Actually no believer ever does ANYTHING to bring folk to Christ, they cannot come unless the Holy Spirit brings them, and of course as you don't even want me on your door, you will possibly never invite Him in.
But that is your decision, and that is all that is required, that you make a decision.
Golly gosh. Not wanting you on their doorstep is the same as not wanting the Holy Spirit?
Your delusions of grandeur know no bounds.
Thanks for helping to convince me your religion is nonsense and god does not exist.
Twisting words again Marcus, what was stated was:
"Actually no believer ever does ANYTHING to bring folk to Christ, they cannot come unless the Holy Spirit brings them, and of course as you don't even want me on your door, you will possibly never invite Him in."
You little devil you, so cunning to try an twist what folk say!
I would love to invite you over, I have an extensive library and a shelf devoted to spiritual endevours. I could show you all sorts of contradictory information, the problem is, you wouldn't accept any of it as fact and if you did, you'd just chalk it up to God somehow.
Try me, in fact I said at the start and have repeated for the last 20 years that IF I ever proved that Christ was not who He said He is, then I would become the most vociferous opponent of Christianity, to date I have seen no evidence that could prove that.
Of course you may have also spent 20 years in fellowship with Christ, and found the flaw in the relationship, if you can show me that, then you are gaining a new colleague.
Would you take the same wager in reverse?
Sure... here goes...
The human condition has degraded the intended message of the bible, to the extent that it's just an opinion. Without litteral tranlations and a template of the original language, none of it makes any sense. Without allegorical proof, the argument becomes that of subjective truth. So, if it can't be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be true, then it's nonsense and I Can't bring myself to logically adhere to it.
Read the gospel of John, one chapter per day, it will take you 21 days, consider what is stated, and ASK that IF God exists He will make you understand and His presence clearly known to you.
Put aside your preconceptions and wait for the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ to you.
That should do it.
You're not proving anything by that and the argument presented is baseless. To read the bible, in order to validate it is rediculous. If you have to prove the truth of the bible, using the bible, then you're not proving anything. The point was to present evidence outside of the bible and if it correlates with reality, then I might change my mind, but I have not been presented with any logical information. Try again...
Your point is that evidence must come from outside of the bible, my point is that the evidence will only be made available to you from inside the bible.
But the real point, as I keep stating, is that we all need to make a decision that will have the highest stakes based upon it.
My decision is that God exists and wants a personal relationship with us, and that Christ is our Saviour, and I stake my eternal existence upon those facts.
I have total confidence that what I have experienced and know is truth and valid to save me from separation from God.
Your decision needs to only be 100% secure, and you can stop trying to decry my position.
After all, if I am in error, what is that to you
Is that were the experiments were conducted, inside the bible?
You have staked nothing at all. In other words, you stake a myth upon a myth.
Like I said TM, all that matters is that you decide what you believe, as you have obviously done that, the task is completed.
My hands are clean, you have made your decision, and you have staked your eternal existence upon the decision you have made.
If you are 100% secure in your decision, then that's great, and I wish you well also, and our discussion is finished as you have decided, and that is all that is required.
No point in reacting with more inane replies or stupid smileys, the case is closed.
No fair. If you deny him inane responses and stupid smilies you've handicapped him. He'll never be able to post. What else does he have?
You are correct of course, and I did miss him whilst he was banned, though it did make for more civilised discussions!
Oh well, I retract that, he can continue amusing we mere mortals in his ineffable manner...
(just for you TM!)
Completely worthless Quintuple Smiley Award...
Once again, you assert that I have any beliefs on which to decide or embrace. I don't.
Your ridiculous superstitious threats are childish at best.
The superstitious case is closed.
Well?.. Still waiting for a good rebuttle. What say you believer?
I will await your reading John for 21 days as I have suggested, then lets talk.
Why would I want to waist time making myself retarded for 21 days, when I could probably read it and discount it in an hour?
Which is it? ME, or people LIKE me?
I suppose you encountered many LIKE me before?
Here I thought I was "unique".
Seems I'm jus a copy.
How about you?
Are you an UNIQUE Atheist, or just another copy?
Both AKA. You and people like you. Notice "like" as in "similar," - not identical?
And you have definitely helped convince me that god does not exist and christianity is nonsense. You - AKA - you.
Thank you for the honor!
Be sure to tel Him, at the judgment day, that it was MY FAULT you were not a believer.
I'm sure it will help your cause with Him!
If atheism is represented by yourself, I am not impressed ONE IOTA, to become one!
To date, you have given NO argument worthy of my consideration for me to give Christ up for.
Thanks for making my point AKA. I was just pointing out that you are achieving the opposite of your stated intention. Certainly helping convince me I am right.
Odd - you think this is convincing me to believe?
I know you are not impressed with me AKA. Your "love" for me is clear.
Am I in or out? I'm about average dj. Better than some, worse than others...but doing the best I can. I suppose, if God exists and there is a hell; my final disposition would be up to him. Not much I can do about it with no proof of life on a cosmic scale.
I consider it's rather "stretchy" and designed to make unlimited room. It "evolves". haha but not so funny really; just threw that in with the hope that those who accept the wrong idea of "evolution" might give some thought to how extensive hell is.
'Cause Isaiah said:
"Woe unto them that...............regard not the work of the Lord, neither consider the operation of His hands.
Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge, and their honorable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.
Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure; and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it."
(Isaiah 5: 11..-14)
Hey, thanks for the input. Can't say that I agree; but at least you attempted to address the question. I had no idea how quickly this thing would devolve into cat fighting.
Perhaps it is significant to see who started the sniping!
You asked a loaded question that no atheist could resist trying to disrupt, don't you know it is FORBIDDEN to mention hell, even in a light hearted manner on the forums.
Well, all input is valid. Somewhere. To someone. I guess. My idea of a cat fight is probably someone else's idea of fun, or intelligent rebuttal.
Ahhh, if we could only see intelligent rebuttal, but what we see is just more cut and paste ridicule and inane comments.
Anyhow, the topic (which as always was high-jacked) was a good one, and it did entertain for a while, until folk made it into a funfair with smiley faces rather than commentary.
Oh dear Brenda, am I going to hell because I believe that the scientific observations supporting evolution are more credible that a literal reading of Genesis?
Of course not DH, and well you know it, IF the literal hell exists as depicted, then the ONLY reason you would get there is because you rejected Gods Grace and Mercy.
You mean God's potential punishment and the possibility of God's reward. Why would I chase a golden carrot that does not exist? If I chase said carrot, have I not put it there myself?
Actually I would have said OUR potential punishment and the possibility of OUR reward.
Indeed, why would one, and if you are 100% sure that you are correct, you need not bother.
Absolutely for like an addict, we chase the dream and hope for things to come. Confusing myth with reality, that's the illusion. People place unnecessary meanings, onto perceptions they don't easily Identify with. In other words... Religion simplifies it into irrational beliefs and behavior.
I was saying yes to your no. God is a perception created by the fear of change, namely the transition between life and death. Said change is inevitable and there is no way to say that God isn't wishful thinking, to a degree.
It's obvious that intelligence is strange, so I can't discount the existence of a God. I can howver say that man's perceptions of God, are definitely subjective and have meanings, only on a personal level. If there is a universal God, it'd have no interest in the dealings of mortals. This is also to say that a God, would be a natural function of the universe. In this way, there is no way to tell if there is a God at all, then it's just a matter of being open to the idea.
Mostly agreed, I wrestle daily against Churchianity and those of non belief, so I do follow your train of thought.
But the fact that many or most are incapable of holding a true relationship with God, is no reason to discard what can be achieved, we simply need to dig deeper and strive to discern the truth from the added crap that obscures it.
Exactly my point... I like the churchianity thing, I'm gonna use it at my next debate. If it's written in a book, a man wrote it. So then it is invalid from the get go, for the perceptions of man are flawed, if not just by condition and attitude. The bible is a reflection of it's many authors and in no way reflects reality.
Glad you like Churchianity, I invented the word! though not the condition.
Men write words down, sometimes those words are inspired, by emotions, experience, anger and also divine guidance.
I can tell which articles I have written, and which ones have been dictated.
Okay, mischeviousme, it's time I 'came out' and say that I've accepted many faiths into my life.
It happened after my near-fatal hip-replacement surgery back 5+ weeks ago. (Not to be self-promoting here, but I wrote Hubs about that fiasco!) You may say that the situation is temporary/unreal because it happened after such an 'event', but I don't think so.
Anyway, I'm not sure about 'Hell', though I do know we all suffer when we know of our own wrongdoings. That's Hell to me. I am also a recovering addict/alcoholic. So when you say,
"Absolutely for like an addict, we chase the dream and hope for things to come. Confusing myth with reality, that's the illusion. People place unnecessary meanings, onto perceptions they don't easily Identify with. In other words... Religion simplifies it into irrational beliefs and behavior."
I've never in my life confused myth with reality-I've been agnostic up until now, and I've never been beset by illusory thinking. I am probably the most over-thinking individual you'll ever meet, and I usually come up with-at least my-reality.
Yes, I used to 'chase the dream' of drugs and alcohol and became, eventually, disappointed in the result. That's not to say I didn't continue to chase it 'til I almost died-3 times.
"Religion" does NOT simplify anything "...into irrational beliefs and behavior." Nothing's been simplified in my life, believe me, and my beliefs and behavior are anything but irrational. No sh*t.
Sorry for such an outburst, but just had to chime in here...
When you have a pill or a drink, you are chasing comfort. When you have a supply, you are set. Or so it would seem... When a week's supply is gone in a day or so, the search begins aknew.
No sh*t, mm. Comfort will always be what I'm after, whether in spirituality or physicality. The search-hopefully-will cease. It HAS ceased for some of the illegal drugs I used to do. Thank MY God.
If it's not yours, that's totally cool with me!
Really, I do NOT thump!
Wonderful testimony, I wish you all blessings as you enter relationship with your God, and may you reach the peace you desire from that relationship.
Delighted that the door has been opened, and that you are stepping through to see what awaits you.
Well, we've all heard the expression "Hell on wheels," so much the same as in the space shuttle comment we must conclude that Hell can't be any wider than two horses' rear ends.
We've also got "come Hell or high water," so the height of Hell must be comparable to a severe flooding event. I did a little research on hurricane storm surges and tidal waves, so while I can't provide an exact figure it seems that a height of 25-50 feet would be reasonable.
That leaves us with length. I tried asking Siri, but she told me to direct spiritual questions to someone more qualified to comment. "Ideally, a human." (HA HA! SEE?! We CAN know!)
So I tried Googling "How long is hell?" Seems that most theologians agree that it won't last forever, but I needed a number. And then...I found it.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/entities/mo … /51/fx/rh/
Turns out there was an old movie called Hell Below. So how long is Hell Below? About 101 minutes.
So there you have it. Two horse asses wide, a few stories tall, and 101 minutes long. Those are the dimensions of Hell.
Hell, like heaven, caan be as big as you want it to be. Your imagination is your only limit.
You asked an excellent question! To answer about the size I would suggest rather to fathom hell in comparison to atoms of water, you might contemplate it from the computer aspect which I have really not much clue about, but they have such a thing as a "stuff it" compressor, where files gets so compressed that more fit.
I would not be so much concerned about what religion has to say about anything, because it looks to me humans don't have much of an answer. All I see is religionist beat each other up.
However Hell is very real, not only some whacked out Biblical concept of punishment. I grew up atheist and got to know God 30 years ago. Since have clarified, with God's help, a lot of biblical principle, which serves me perfectly well, so I have a cool life to live, with joy and started sharing with a blog, you might be interested in, since it looks like you are a thinker! Not many like that around. Most are tire kickers. Anyway, check it out for answers for a joyful life: http://adifferenceforyourlovedones.wordpress.com/
Well, I'd say Hell is as big as you want it to be...
How big is it?
Big enough to not want to find out?
Someone calculated that since time began there had been about 100 billion folk born (and I guess 93 billion of them have died so far) so lets guess that the current statistic of 2/3 of the current population have faith in God, or their version of God, and support the concept of hell existing as stated, then we would be looking at about 33 billion souls.
As experiments have indicated that a soul weighs about 1 oz, the volume of 33 billion would be approximately 801,004,436 m3, assuming we took the same density as air to calculate.
As the worlds largest building, the Boeing Everett Factory, is 13.3 million m3 it would take about 60 of them to accommodate the whole lot.
That seems not too much!
There actually is no use of the concept of "hell" by today's machinations in the translations of the bible. The concept was created at the publication of Dante's Comedie to create fewer empty seats in the medieval pews of the monstrous temples being built. You know, "scare the hell into people" kinda stuff.
You can find tartaros, Hades and gehenna in the present translations, but none of them describes an eternal place of fiery torture created by a god or a devil...rather just a grave...death...valley where they burned garbage.
Weird, isn't it? Just another mythology of humankind...much like the hobbits joyous place called the Shire.
So, how do you explain the store in the Cayman islands? I saw the picture. It wasn't photo shopped.
I don't think Dante photoshopped his depictions either. An actual artist drew some disturbing renderings...so much imagination in the human mind...scary stuff.
Yes, but Dante wrote The Divine Comedy in the thirteen hundreds. I think this store is circa 1950. Are you saying Dante was reincarnated? He's just trying to drum up modern interest in his work? I'm not quite following you.
I'm trying to be humourous as I don't believe in the concept...too dark and hot...simply a bad idea.
Emile is doing just the same, her humour is razor sharp and quite delectable to enjoy, though less pleasurable to endure.
According to Dante, Hell is not "big" but "deep".
Its magnitude of depth has no true measure, unless one is appointed to a level, wherein they are able measure the width and depth of that stasis, depending on the magnificence of their "sins".
I cant correctly remember but it's about this big *makes a show of having his hands outstretched and wide apart*
as wide as the imagination, it could be as big as earth, sometimes hell is already here on earth - as defined by many people
Hey, DD, that's what I said! HAHA!
prettydarkhorse said it even better.
Hell is big enough to hold everyone I know. (Or you know) Yet small enough to hold only me. (Or you, as the case may be.)
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