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What was the purpose of Jesus's disciples?

  1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    I brought up the verse that God's Kingdom was WITHIN you.  Some person whom thinks they are a Bible Schalor told me that I didn't know what I was talking about and I didn't think I knew who Jesus was talking to.  Yes I know who Jesus was talking to.  He was telling the disciples where the kingdom of god is in them. 
    Well in the Upper Room Jesus gave the charge for his disciples to teach others the lessons and things that they were taught.  Wouldn't it make sense that since Jesus said to them that the Kingdom of God was WITHIN them and himself--that the same goes for everyone else................or are they elitists and want it all for themsleves?
    What is the purpose of spreading the works of Jesus if only a few claim to have them?  Were they not told to spread his works and words?

    1. mightyone profile image57
      mightyoneposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I didn't understand your post but your question the point of the disciples was to spread and teach Jesus's message.

    2. mohitmisra profile image54
      mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      You are correct the kingdom of god is within every human being.The journey is within and not outside.Jesus found God within like others have found before and after him.These so called Bible scholars dont understnd what you do. smile

    3. Make  Money profile image67
      Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      The Kingdom of God is within us if we live in the Spirit, but not if we live in the flesh.  The Kingdom of God is also in Heaven.  What was the purpose of Jesus's disciples?  To take God's Word to all nations, "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (2 Thessalonians 2:15)  Not by spreading gnostic belief, rotten.com or other similar web sites.

      Mike

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Well, well, well Mike--I see you can't think for yourself either and if someone else can you get all upset too.
        I posted that site for a review.  i did in no way say that I believed in that!  Geesh people get a grip!!!  If you happened to read the whole site then you would have seen that they really didn't believe everything they had there either----but NOOOOOOOO no one can do that, they have to go at what someone else tells them and NOT research and read for themselves.........

        1. viralprospector profile image56
          viralprospectorposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Lady G.:

          That is just a crazy statement to Mike. He thinks Very Well for himself. It takes an idiot to think that the thoughts of a person are not their thoughts. Well, unless you are on drugs? Is that it?

          Knowing that the Bible is 100% correct does not mean that someone else told us that. That is absurd.

          Do you ever edit your posts before you send them? I hope not.

          God has the answers. Quit trying to determine what drives true Christians, unless you are ready to use their strategy and tactics to learn the truth.

          MIke's and my point to you is that you do faulty research and write resulting lies to people who want to know the truth. We are just warning everyone that your words are lies, not the truth.

  2. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 8 years ago

    I do have a question about this, anyone.

    If the kingdom is inside, then how come Jesus told the kid that he would have to sell all his things if he wanted to get into Heaven?

    1. mohitmisra profile image54
      mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      You cannot have any attachment any desire.
      When do I see,meet God,
      Whenever you really want to,
      When you want nothing.
      Desires,attachments is what keeps you here.

    2. maestrowhit profile image60
      maestrowhitposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      good question. I'll see if I can explain my take on this passage.

      In another place, Jesus says that it is almost impossible for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. He says it easier for camel to enter the eye of a needle.

      So these are two instances where Jesus refers to riches being a hindrance for entering the Kingdom of God - Kingdom of Heaven.

      This is how I see it -

      Heaven is a reality that exists right here in this life. It is inside and all around us, but we cannot see it; therefore, we cannot enter it. Seeing the Kingdom and entering the Kingdom are the same thing. Your reality consists of what you perceive (see) it to be. When you enter the Kingdom of Heaven, your perception of reality changes and you SEE that you are in Heaven. By seeing it, you enter it.

      But you must forfeit your life in order to be reborn into the new life in the Kingdom of Heaven. This is why -

      The more you hold dear in your present life - the more you love about it - the more content you are to stay in it. Since you have no way of seeing the Kingdom before you enter it, you have no way of comparing it to your current life. You have no idea what the Kingdom is like - you have no concept whatsoever of it. So if you are rich, you think you have the best thing life has to offer - therefore you never consider the possibility that there is something else that is better right here in this life - not in the afterlife.

      But the more you lose, the more you seek for something more than what meets the eye. The less content you are with your life, the more you'll search for true meaning.

      Anyway, I hope this isn't redundant.

  3. quicksand profile image84
    quicksandposted 8 years ago

    Hi Mohit, the best way is to turn your eyeballs 180 degrees, is that right?

    1. mohitmisra profile image54
      mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      In meditation you close your eyes and look at the point between your eyebrows.This point is very far like a distant star. smile
      This is where the cross takes on a mystical aspect.The cross or star becomes the entrance to the tunnel at the end of which is the light.

      1. quicksand profile image84
        quicksandposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        smile smile smile I meant looking inside you to "spot" the Kingdom of GOD which is supposed to within you! smile smile smile

        1. mohitmisra profile image54
          mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Yes its inside smile God is in you. smile

  4. Lady Guinevere profile image61
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    Wow I am not getting these notices in my Hubtivity!  The last one I got was the first response. 
    Anyway.  It is witihn you because the worldly/material things will not staisfy your mind, soul and the attachment you have with God.  When you see God or be with him, it is only when you take yourself out of the world you are in--like meditation.  It is in the Bible too if you want to see it.  When you "go Home" you can't take anything with you.  You do not die and you don't sin.
    A great site to learn about this is:
    http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/~acc … erSelf.htm

    When I had my OOBE (Out of Body Experience)  I was in pure and total unconditional love.  I didn't meed aby material things and I didn't want to comeback into my ody either.  I didn't want to be without that LOVE because it was so wonderful that words cannot describe it.  Now some will tell you that I just dissaciated and it happens all the time and there is nothing special about it--they are wrong.  When people don't understand then they make things up and they tell you that you did this or that or that you sinned.  When you actually go through something like this it is nothing as they say.

    Those desciples were to teach everything that Jesus taught them.  Remember Sandra that some of those words and sentences were added in the Bible for political purposes of the governing parties when those books were transcribed.

    Read up on the site I just gave and it will become clearer to you.

  5. Inspirepub profile image81
    Inspirepubposted 8 years ago

    I agree that we are all God - anyone teaching otherwise is doing the Devil's work.

    However, I would question the question.

    The whole notion of "purpose" presupposes things to be done, changes to be made, outcomes to be attained ... and there was none of that hewhaw in the place of total love you visited, I'd be willing to bet.

    Spiritual life has no purpose.

    Purpose is a function of the corporeal being, driven as it is to eat, excrete and reproduce - we take those drives and rework them into something apparently nobler, but when you come down to it, that's what all the noise and fuss is fundamentally about. Grabbing the biggest chunk of wildebeast (material/financial success) and securing our immortality (by leaving some kind of legacy - whether that is flesh and blood children or some kind of project).

    The less attached one is to material reality, and the more one is in touch with the spiritual realm, the less urge there is to do anything at all, actually ...

    Jenny

  6. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    Here is a discussion to which she refers in her OP for another hub. You can look it up for yourself on the Obama antichrist hub.

    LG's post;
    First, LG said, "Also if the Kingdom of God is WITHIN You then everything that is in you is the Kingdom of God---Your definition of Occult and all. They are in God's Kingdom weather you like it or not."

    To that I replied (after a few irrelevent exchanges you can see for yourself);

    VP's post;
    In my opinion, in addition to being logically absurd, this is a clear exapmle of taking away from the Bible. Galatians 5:19-21 and Revelations 21:8 are parts of the Holy Bible. For you to try to discredit them, and call yourself a minister, leads me to the final verses I have for you to contemplate. It is in the last scriptures of the Holy Bible, Revelation 22:18-19;

    "I testify to the one who hears the words of the prophecy contained in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book."

    I have seen you say, over and over, that the Bible was mistranslated (VP is adding in this post - to which I now add that she did say that again to Sandra on this very thread). Well, I know that you are a "minister", but those who translated the major translations of the Bible were Doctors of Theology and those with other very high credentials. Their positions in the established community of religion were paramount. Those people took this last passage seriously, I believe.

    These are not "silly games" after all, are they?


    Later, I wrote this to her. Then, she came over here with her version of a very tall tale that has no bearing on reality. By the way, I have never called myself a "Bible scholar". However, I certainly appreciate the compliment.

    Lady G;

    I really was trying to be kind. However, how do you say someone is wrong in any kinder way?

    However, if that was just a "silly game", then let's just end the game with the unerring holy Word of God, the Bible. Here is direct Word of God that any Christian "minister" should understand. It is contained in the Bible, as lionswhelp already gave in one example. Arkwriter set the record straight in his post that you disagreed with, too, of course. He has maintained a steady course of biblical accuracy througout this hub. His objection to the translation of poisoner or administrator of drugs for farmakeia is accurate.

    While it does take concentration to undertand this, here is another use of the word that shows why the pharmacy/poisoning translation would not be logical. That passage is Galatians 5:19-21. (While it is irrelevent to my post, you often try to discredit scripture with erroneous cries of "wrong context". This context is to contrast the works of the flesh - which is verses 19-21 - with the works of the spirit which follow.)

    "Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, depravity,  idolatry, sorcery, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish rivalries, dissensions, factions, envying, murder, drunkenness, carousing, and similar things. I am warning you, as I had warned you before: Those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God!"

    Wow, there is even an exclamation point (of course added by the translators). This was deemed so serious... Now, if you substitute poisoning or administering drugs in the sentence for sorcery, it would stick out as too specific and a mistranslation. That is why all majopr translations of the Bible are consistent in the treatment of that word. It would make the sentence illogical. What is most telling of this passage, though, Lady G., is that it shows your post to be 100% wrong. The occult is largely covered with idolatry and sorcery, and it is specifically stated that it will NOT be in the Kingdom of God.

    I think that is why you should quit misrepresenting the Word of God. People expect "ministers" to be teachers. While I did see that everyone can get a "minister's" license from the place you did for any reason, like Pagans or anything, people have a different perception of that. Denominational ministers, for example, have strict guidelines to fulfill, in many cases. The point of that is not to mislead others with your words.

    If I am wrong about this, what then does your "minister" designation mean for you to do? If it is not to teach, then I guess I miss the point. Why say you are a "minister"? We are conditioned to follow our teachers (ministers). Frankly, twisting the Bible leads people down the wrong path, the wide path. Saying the occult will be in the Kingdom of God is blasphemy of a very high order. So, I would not let it slide. I proved that with the passage above.

    Here is another scripture that troubles me about how you consistently misrepresent God's word. "

    Jesus said, "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers and sisters, because you know that we will be judged more strictly." James 3:1.

    Finally, your comment that precipitated my post to you;

    "Also if the Kingdom of God is WITHIN You then everything that is in you is the Kingdom of God---Your definition of Occult and all. They are in God's Kingdom weather you like it or not."


    In summary, my issue was obviously with the occult being associated with God's Kingdom. Clearly that is 100% blasphemy. My other point is that all of the "work" done on this website is clearly visible to God, and the Bible, which is 100% accurate, has a lot to say about what we do with our lives. Faith without works is dead. Isn't it funny that the two primary issues (the occult being in God's Kindgom and LG's credentials to determine the Bible's accuracy) were not mentioned in her post here. Oh well, who cares? Hint, read the Bible...

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      VP, in your attempt to just be right -------------you are wrong.  This is not what I was talking about and it was not in that hub!  For your information it was in one of SirDent's hubs.  I believe he has denied the comment though so ...................................

      You just seem to want to be right and not see anything at all.  That is fine if that is YOUR path, but it is not mine.  The more you try to discredit my position and post and comments the worse you look.  I believe that trating other as you want them to treat you is in that Bible too ans o is Love thy neighbor as thyself-or do you just overlook those precepts that Jesus told YOU in the Bible?  Now who is picking and choosing,,,,hmmmmmmm........................??????

  7. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 8 years ago

    I guess what I was asking is...

    Some say that you just have to be good to get into Heaven, because, well...it is in the Bible. 

    The Kingdom of God is described as being inside our temple also described as the body.

    Jesus says to obey the commandments plus his two commandments to show that you love him and to get into Heaven. 

    So when the boy says, I obey them and I love you, and what else must I do and Jesus tells him to get rid of his things...???

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that not having any attachments to material things is the "ticket", but seeing as though this boy did what Jesus asked that  God had asked, why does he get singled out for being attached to things? 

    I hardly think the little boy was rich.  I mean I can't really picture a rich little boys parents letting this boy hang out with a bunch of sinners around a campfire etc..you know. lol. 

    I wonder if the question had less to do with detachment from material wealth then it did for "wanting"? The commandment, thou shall not covet thy neighbors house, comes to mind. 

    I know that Bible says that the rich have already received their reward, so would this story be about wanting too much, greed?  Maybe???

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      It could be.  Jesus also spoke of moderation, everything in moderation. When we go overboard with certain things it does have a reaction to the outside world and that would include our bodies as well.  Maybe he did want too much and was a bit greedy.  We don't have that whole conversation so we only can make assumptions by what is written -- taking things out of context and this would also be hersay (orally passed through several peope) by the people that it was passed down too.

    2. maestrowhit profile image60
      maestrowhitposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I'm pretty sure the passage you are referring to is about a "rich young ruler." Not a little boy. You might be talking about something else, though.

      You've pointed out an inconsistency in the Bible. There are literally thousands of them. You have to deliberately ignore them to not see them. And only when one admits to themselves that these inconsistencies are there in such abundance can they start to enjoy the true benefit of the book we call The Bible.

      So the answer to your question won't be found by putting the pieces of scripture together. The answer is already inside of you. You just have to listen to it.

      1. viralprospector profile image56
        viralprospectorposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Maestrowhit;

        What inconsistency? Sandra's post is not easy to handle, but that is not an excuse to say there are thousands of inconsistencies in the Bible. There are no inconsistencies, zero, not one. After you have matured and studied enough (I mean serious, hard study with a true religious scholar as a mentor, not some clown), you will know that. I fear for all those who cannot realize that. I believe that the gate to the Kingdom of God is narrow, as the the Bible says.

        I smashed my ring finger, and I am one finger typing. So, this will be an abbreviated post.

        The Kingdom of God was in the disciples who loved the Lord Jesus, and they will inherit the Kingdom of God for their work for Him. Don't forget that Jesus is God, so He was capable of knowing what would happen in terms of salvation. He could give the decision, but only He could. No one else knows who will be saved or what is inside another person for sure. It is Jesus' decision exclusively. We have clues in the 600 plus commandments in the Bible, though. While we do not judge someone's salvation, we do have the obligation to have judgement as to the truth. The Holy Spirit helps true believers have that discretion to determine the likelihood of things, based on the Word.

        No inconsistency there...

        The story of the young rich ruler is told in Matthew 18 and Luke 19, as I recall. All we know is the story told there. There is no inconsistency in the story whatsoever. It is perfectly consistent with the message of salvation understood by true Christians. Philippians 2:12 says to work out our salvation with awe and reverence. The message of salvation is to follow Jesus. That is not simple. There are tiny things that are necessary to understand that finally make all the Bible make sense. I pray right now that you all will someday do the work necessary to find out that what I say is true. Regardless of what you may think of me, it is the truth that the Bible is totally consistent.

        Salvation is work, too. It is not a Christmas present all wrapped up nice and pretty. Those who follow Jesus work hard at it. He told the disciples that they would be persecuted for His name. Yes, He told them to leave everything behind to follow Him. Do not underestimate the Word of God. It is inerrant. If you are still confused about this, I do not mind helping in clearing it up further. However, I am not interested in some stupid twisting of the Word. I am here to help, in my very small way if I can, but if you will not open up and understand, I maybe did worse than waste my time. People can lie to themselves long enough that they think it is the truth.

        That is the message. When you are able to read the Bible and study it with someone who knows it, not some fool who writes stupid lying hubs, for example, then you will know that the Bible is perfect, 100%, all the time and forever.

        We have debated these things any times. I am a humble meager servant of Him. I am truly eager to help people understand if He ordains that - all glory to Him and Him alone. However, I must say that many of the posts here are totally stupid. I am not singling out anyone, as I reply far too often when I should just move on. They just show total ignorance of the Word. That is frustrating to just see nothing accomplished by all of this debating. I see nothing wrong with the position of knowing the Bible is 100% correct, but I see lots wrong with the opposite. My first post on this thread showed why.

        1. maestrowhit profile image60
          maestrowhitposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Jesus said that unless you become like a little child, you will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. How does that fit in with your theory about maturing and studying enough - hard serious study with a good religious scholar as a method to understanding God's Word? That sounds pretty inconsistent to me. Do you think Jesus was just kidding?

          You call yourself humble in the same paragraph that you call other people stupid and ignorant. You subtly imply that you know the real truth while others obviously do not.

          Hmmmmm. There's another inconsistency.

        2. Lady Guinevere profile image61
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          How would you know that no one else is right but you VP?  You seem to attack anyone, no matter who it is.  There are inconsistencies in thge Bible and you keep lying--now that is NOT Godlike.  I don't see anything in your posts that can give us conrete evidence that everything that you claim is the absolute truth.  You are just a person, just like everyone else.  No one know more or less, they just know more of one thing and not another. 
          Now being a Minister, does not in anyway purport that I am perfect, that I know everything or that I have a right to tell anyone else that they donot see or hear or experience God.  You are purporting that you do and your comments come across as arrogant and that YOU Know Everyone's heart and mind-and YOU DON"T.  You never will because you are not in that person and for you to say that God or Jesus isn't there is just ludicrous.  It seem sto me that YOU are the one with the chip on the choulder and you telling everyone else they are wrong proves it more than anything else.
          So can we have a normal discussion of things spiritual and not point fingers at so and so for not believing the way that you do?

    3. mohitmisra profile image54
      mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      One story of Krishna.
      Krishnas friend sends his son to meet Krishna telling him he will learn about god from this great master.The son is hesitant as he says how can some one living in a palace be enlightened .
      At first he goes half way and returns to which the father tells him to go again.
      This time he goes to the gates of the palace and returns again.
      One again the father tells him go and meet Krishna he will teach you about the spirit.
      Reluctantly the boy then goes and meets Krishna.Krishna nowing that his friends son is coming plays with him,he is seated on his throne eating food and being entertained by singing girls .
      Then a gaurd comes and says the cit is on fire whcih causes a bit of discomfort to everyone including the boy,only Krishna is calm .
      Then the gaurd says the fire has reached the palace  on which the boy who has come with his small bag picks it up and gets ready to leave.
      This is when Krishna says look at you ,you are attached to your belongings while I am not attached to anything including my palace.This is when the boy realises that Krishna is a great sage and no ordinary man.
      So the story is one can have wealth its attachment that is bad and prevents you from entering the kingdom of god smile

  8. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    LG;

    My point was not that you were referring to the information I posted. I did not word the sentence all that well, so I can see how you thought I said that, though.

    My point is that you are reprenenting yourself as a minister and being consistently wrong about the Bible. I do not really care whether it is SirDent, me, Allshookup or another Christian you are disagreeeing with. I just think that all who read your stuff should know you are leading them down the wide path which the Bible describes clearly (as I said a few things about in my post here).

    You might want to think through what you write, too. The posts are really wacky, sort of off-the-wall. You characterize things in a very illogical way, sort of angry all the time. Look, if you want to write about the Bible, you need to quit reading "sci fi religion articles" (for lack of a better term) and read the Bible. That is my point. Otherwise you face a certain harsh time ahead.

    In the meantime, I guess I can only determine that I am proud that you disagree with me...

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I don't know VP,  I think the Bible also says that His children will have many different callings, and each ones purpose if it is for God, then there is a reason for it.  So I think that when someone says something different that it is for the purpose of filling the gaps in the road that help people come to God. 

      If what she does is out of love for God, even when they sound wrong or different to you, doesn't mean that she is just sinning with her hand againts God, to me she sounds like she is doing what she was asked to do and she does it out of love, and so where there is love, what wrong could she do? 
      Plus for everyone who does search or seek to really understand, then the road to redemption and the small narrow gate starts with a very wide road that gets smaller and smaller and smaller the closer you get.

      For me, it would seem that when you travel all the roads seeking to understand why, it makes the pupose of Jesus mean so much more.  This may not jive well with you but it's fine because you have already established what you believe and done what you needed to do to get there, but one thing that I can't help but remind you of is that, real seekers never stop seeking.  smile

      And I say this with all loving purposes, and mean nothing against your character because I have come to understand you better througout your post. smile

    2. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Wel VP, my work from God is not the same as yours and you constantly judging me by your own inadequacies is not my fault and God will not allow me to stop.  They may seem science Fiction to you but that is where you are in your spiritual path. 
      Now if you read the Bible yourself without anyone telling you what those verses really mean then you will see it differently too.  You and others like you have constantly told me to quit being a Minister--I can't do that because it is a lifetime office.  Now your kind also have shown the anger and have somehow turned it around to mean that I am angry and I am not.  I guess that is the way that you process things and have been taught  from the very beginning.  Thats OK with me but please --stop spreading lies about me in an attempt to make your poo smell like roses when it does not.  I see no love in your posts to or ABOUT me.  There simply is no room for LOVE in a person whom sees fit to make False Witness about others just because they do not see what is in front of their own eyes.
      If you can't spread love then that is YOUR problem not mine.  I have done my research and continue to do more and YOU and YOUR Kind cannot stop me.
      You are trying to do the same thing they did to Jesus--test him--and they tested him to his death......  I won't go that far because I am not Jesus.
      You didn't understand what I was saying about the sclalars who put the Bible together either.  I did not say they were wrong or did translate things wrong on purpose, What I said was the the governing Political Poarties had a say in what they wanted in the Bible for MONEY purposes. 
      Jesus was a Nazarene and it says so in tht Bible and everyone has confirmed that.  Well then why is all the gnostics that Jesus Taught not in the Bible.  Why are they heresies--becasue the governing parties didn't want them in them becaseu they would give the people more power over themselves and not be lead by the nose or purse strings by those clergy that were bound by Constantine and other political heads.  If you are truly wanting to debate what Jesus says, then you will research all those books yourself ----and and if not--well then it is your stubbornness and has nothing to do with God or Jesus or your Clergy-but you yourself and no one else.
      Now lets get back to the original discussion topic.  Wasn't the desciples supposed to teach others all of what Jesus taught them?  Yes or No.

    3. Make  Money profile image67
      Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I'm sorry LG but I would definitely have to agree.  Especially when it comes to you quoting rotten.com and other similar sites.

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Tell me why none of you can answer the question I posited here and instead bring up some things that have no bearing on this at all?

        1. maestrowhit profile image60
          maestrowhitposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I'm guilty, sorry. I got into the discussion by responding to a side topic.

          What was the purpose of Jesus' disciples?

          I think it can be summed up in one of Jesus' statements. He said that "Heaven and Earth will on pass away, but My words will not pass away."

          I think that the essence of Jesus' message remains intact, though his exact words have been skewed by the progress of language and culture and many other factors over the past  couple thousand years.

          And if not any other purpose, there is one very obvious one, and that is the writing of the gospels. The only words of Christ that we have are those that were written by His disciples.

          There may be many other purposes that can be thought of, but this one seems to be the most concrete.

  9. profile image0
    SirDentposted 8 years ago

    It seems my name was mentioned here. How odd.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Yes it was and I think VP got some things mixed up and thought that he was the one that inspired me to ask this question.  Silly him wanting all the glory and spotlight.

      1. profile image0
        SirDentposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        If you have a problem with something I said, why didn't you come to me with it? I did deny the post you mentioned because it had nothing to do with the hub it was posted on.

        1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I didn't have a problem with you, I only used that what I posted and your response as a referrence only.  VP was the one who brought the whole other thing up and so I had to back myself up.  That was all, no anger or anything just a question and I asked the question..........

  10. profile image0
    SirDentposted 8 years ago

    By the way, here is the link to the hub LG is speaking about. http://hubpages.com/hub/Another-Gospel

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Thank You SirDent!

  11. profile image0
    SirDentposted 8 years ago

    Can God be right and men be right at the same time?

    1. mohitmisra profile image54
      mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Good question and yes when he is tune with god like Jesus. smile

  12. royalblkrose profile image60
    royalblkroseposted 8 years ago

    I was about to jump into this conversation... until i READ the posts... the only reason one would consistently point out the seeming inconsistencies in the Bible is that the person is not willing to accept the truths within it.  And the only reason that someone will gloss over the importance of salvation as a prerequisite to enter Heaven is a reluctance, or even defiance of the truth of the need for salvation through Jesus Christ.  There is a certain amount of deep pride that must  be broken before accepting Jesus, and until one is willing to be broken through acknolwedgement and acceptance of their own sin and the need for salvation... one is just chasing their tail, (so to speak)

    1. maestrowhit profile image60
      maestrowhitposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      what do you mean, you were about to jump into the conversation until........

      You just did jump into the conversation.

    2. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Alternatively, one would point out the inconsistencies in the bible, because they are inconsistencies.

      There is no need for salvation. There is a certain amount of arrogance involved in claiming to know the truth while at the same time ignoring obvious contradictions and inconsistencies and passing them off as "needing to be meditated on to understand the truth," which then turns out to be what you have already decided, based on ignoring those contradictions and inconsistencies.

      There is a certain amount of hubris involved in then telling some that they are not willing to accept this truth when any fool can see the bible is littered with inaccuracies, inconsistencies, falsehoods and obvious contradictions.

  13. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    Maestrowhit;

    You said;
    "Jesus said that unless you become like a little child, you will not see the Kingdom of Heaven. How does that fit in with your theory about maturing and studying enough - hard serious study with a good religious scholar as a method to understanding God's Word? That sounds pretty inconsistent to me. Do you think Jesus was just kidding?

    You call yourself humble in the same paragraph that you call other people stupid and ignorant. You subtly imply that you know the real truth while others obviously do not.

    Hmmmmm. There's another inconsistency."

    That is not an inconsistency. You do not understand the passage correctly. That is all the problem consists of. The answer ises in Mat 18:4
    "Whoever then humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

    We simply cannot be arrogant when we really know the majesty of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. That is why we work out our salvation with awe and reverence. See, it fits together perfectly. Really, though, Maestrowhit, if you are just trying to see if you can trip me up, please do not waste my time. The Bible is 100% correct. Do you think it is fair to me to make me straighten out all your erroneous thoughts? Isn't it better to go to a real Bible study and read through the Bible to see for yourself. That is what I mean about maturing. Maturing and humbling actually go hand in hand. All the pieces are there for you, but if you just choose to try to take the easy way out, beware...

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I seem to think the saying about becoming like children to enter the Kingdom of God, goes hand and hand with helplessness.  I think that VP does have a point, that maturing and humbling go hand and hand because it fits with the parabel, that when one seeks one will find, when one finds one will be troubled. 

      Because it does seem that the more you find, the harder it becomes to keep from "hardening" your heart and so with the continuous struggle, eventually (according to Revelations) we will all (believers or not) helpless like children crying, begging, scared etc...needing help but not knowing where to find it, when it will come etc. 

      So, when it comes to the believers, in the end I don't think it matter much what you say, it become about what you actually do.  Will you help those who are helpless, those weak in faith to stay strong and never give up, when you, yourself (yes even faithful believers) are in the very same situation of helplessness??? 

      When an atheist says, there is no God yet helps someone who does believe in God, who do you think is blessed?  When someone says they believe in God but will only help his fellow brethern who needs nothing, over a someone who does not believe but needs a lot of help, who then is blessed? 

      What would be the point of the questions?  Yo, little one...chose?

    2. maestrowhit profile image60
      maestrowhitposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that you are so much more mature than I am. Please forgive my immaturity.

      Oh, and since you point out that you are so humble, please teach me in your wisdom how to be as wonderfully humble as you are. I mean, you really strike the image of something I want to be like.

      I don't want to suffer the consequences of not agreeing with the almighty Viralprospector. You have sufficiently scared me into wanting to adopt your beliefs.




      LOL LOL

    3. mohitmisra profile image54
      mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      A child has no ego and that is what Jesus meant about becoming like achild.Inquisitive once again. smile

  14. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    Sandra;

    Your questions are good ones. Many struggle with thesde exact issues.

    "When an atheist says, there is no God yet helps someone who does believe in God, who do you think is blessed?" 

    Actually no one is blessed in this instance. Both the atheist and the person helped are made to feel good in most instances, though. An atheist is not blessed as it takes belief in Jesus to be blessed. Still, good works are critical in any instance. Works are secondary to following Jesus for a Christian, but faith without works is dead, so works are important. After all, Jesus did much work for the poor and needy.

    "When someone says they believe in God but will only help his fellow brethern who needs nothing, over a someone who does not believe but needs a lot of help, who then is blessed?"

    That is not really all that clear to be able to make a blanket statement. First, I do not believe anyone needs nothing. However, I do believe that it is the responsibility of believers to do as Jesus did and help the needy and the poor. I also think the believer should spread the gospel which is also help.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Then this brings up the story of the good symaritian.  In the first question, both would be blessed.  As the man who does not believed helped one who did, which is a blessing to both.

      In the second instance, chosing not to help someone who is weak in faith is a crime or sin accourding to God.  A believer should spread the gospel as well, I can't argue that because if a believer like the preist who walked by the man left for dead on the side of the road, then who would help?

      I do recall Jesus asked us to help those who are weak in faith, so then I would ask you how you define exactly what "weak in faith" means.

  15. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    Maestrowhit;

    What?

    "oh, I'm sorry. I forgot that you are so much more mature than I am. Please forgive my immaturity."

    Immature does not do you justice. 

    "Oh, and since you point out that you are so humble, please teach me in your wisdom how to be as wonderfully humble as you are. I mean, you really strike the image of something I want to be like."

    I could teach you nothing. You already know it all.

    "I don't want to suffer the consequences of not agreeing with the almighty Viralprospector. You have sufficiently scared me into wanting to adopt your beliefs."

    I should have known better to write to you. That was really uncalled for.

    1. maestrowhit profile image60
      maestrowhitposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Yeah, you should've just let us maintain our peace. I liked it that way. You and I don't speak the same language.

  16. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    Maestrowhit;

    Then, I might suggest that you just go somewhere else. This is an open forum, not a hub where people can just censor comments against them. I am just as entitled to speak the truth here as you are to speak lies and insults here. By the way, it was Lady G's thread, not yours. Why would you think you have ownership to this?

    YOu carry a grudge for a long time. Sure, I have refuted your comments on this website, just as you tried to do so to me. I was not being anymore than honest here on this thread to you. However, you have that thorn in your side. You blew this all out of proportion. You lie and expect those who know the truth to agree or ignore it. That is so weak. You need to learn the truth. You need to shut your keyboard (mouth) about what you think you know. You know lies, then you print them here.

    I refer you back to my first post here. It fits you very well, even though it was not intended for you. I had no intention of dialogue with you. I would be thrilled to have no more, so quit lying.

    1. maestrowhit profile image60
      maestrowhitposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Look, if you can't handle me being in the same discussion as you are, then why don't you take your own suggestion and leave. You have asked me many times in the past to leave a hub or a furum because you didn't like me being there. Since it's your idea, why don't you do it?

      Don't expect a positive reaction from someone right after you berate them with disrespectful insitls. That is a ridiculous expectation. You're more likely to get what you want if you treat someone with kindness and consideration.

  17. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    Sandra;

    "Then this brings up the story of the good symaritian.  In the first question, both would be blessed.  As the man who does not believed helped one who did, which is a blessing to both."

    Again, these are good issues to understand. You asked if both are blessed when an atheist helps someone else. While the "good Samaritan" story is a good example of loving your neighbor, you leave out one key point to understand this. That is that the top commandment is to love the Lord. If you miss out on commandment number one, commandment number two will not save you. That is written throughout the Bible. Jesus is the way, the thuth and the life. No one enters the Kingdom of God but through Him (paraphrase, but correct).

    "In the second instance, chosing not to help someone who is weak in faith is a crime or sin accourding to God.  A believer should spread the gospel as well, I can't argue that because if a believer like the preist who walked by the man left for dead on the side of the road, then who would help?"

    What are you referring to here? I am not sure I agree with that as a blanket statement. We all miss opportunities to serve the Lord, but that does not make it a sin. We are to spread the gospel to the ends of the earth, but I cannot possibly talk or write to every single person. I am just a weak human who tries to do his best, albeit totally not in the league of the Lord.

    "I do recall Jesus asked us to help those who are weak in faith, so then I would ask you how you define exactly what "weak in faith" means."

    I am guessing you are referring to Romans 14 here. It is a beautiful passage of scripture. It talks of not judging others under The Law (for only Jesus can do that) and trying to restrain ourself. The end of that passage is a good summary of it.

    Romans 14:11-12; For it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will give praise to God.” Therefore, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

  18. Onusonus profile image88
    Onusonusposted 8 years ago

    Were I to draw a distinction in all of the duties that are required of the children of men, from first to last, I would place first and foremost the duty of seeking the Lord God until we open the path of communication between from heaven to earth- from God to our own souls.
    And when you have labored faithfully throughout the years, you will learn this simple fact- that if your hearts are right, and you continue in obediance, and to serve God, and continue to pray, the spirit of the lord will be in you like a well of water springing up to everlasting life.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Thak you VERY much.  You are the only person here that can answer this question and then tell us with now judgemental views or rhetoric.  If there were a prize, you would recieve it, but I think you have already recieved that gifts from God.  What more could you ask for!
      Well done!

      Now lets spread the word without judgment and that is exactly what the purpose of the Desciples was!
      They were not told to convert anyone, but only to tells the stories and the LOVE of Jesus the Christ.  He never said go into the world and spread hate, or anger or pride and arrogance, or FEAR and Control or that one knows more than another so they are always rightand they can use that as a control issue.

  19. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 8 years ago

    "for not believing the way that you do?" I knew a guy once who could never be wrong. If you said he was wrong, and the more you said it, only made him more right because if you were really right, you wouldn't protest so much. For real.

  20. Onusonus profile image88
    Onusonusposted 8 years ago

    Thanks!!

  21. allshookup profile image57
    allshookupposted 8 years ago

    The Bible doesn't contradict Itself. Ever.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Well I have something that says something different and no matter how many times you tell me it doesn't all the readings that I have done throughout the years tells me something different.  Now if that Is from Satan which I am going to assume you will thinks so the you go do research and see what you find.  Other wise you and VP will continue to acts as God against those who YOU do not see fit to live............
      Here is just ONE example
      "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword" - Matthew 10:34.

      This conversation owas on another group that I belong to so I cannot get any other information right yet but this is what he had to say about that verse:
      ".............as much as an idealistic interpretation would seem better, that's is not what the Greek word translated as "Send" means. The word is pronounced balló. It is best understood as pouring over, that's why in other translations into English it has been written as "Bring".

      To fully understand the verse, you have to continue reading on, lest you become guilty of plucking a snippet of scripture and using it for your own ideals.

      Read on and you'll see it is written: ".....For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes, will be of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me....."

      Go read it yourself. I don't need to quote more.

      This is one of the "proof text" I use as a Jew to say the man Jesus was a lunatic. Certainly not Messiah who will, according to Torah, be a Man of Peace.

      Just consider, there is ONLY ONE Commandment (not just out of the 10, but out of the 613) that has a promise - "Honor your Father and your Mother so that that your days may be long in the land I will give you." That says something to me at least.


      Consider how foolish this guy Jesus was to twist the words of Torah - especially the ONE commandment that G-d attached a promise to.

      Honestly, I don't think that is what Jesus really said. What we have are the trumped ideas of some Gentile follower long after Jesus was dust, that wrote the words.

      I am of the opinion that most Gentiles don't know the Hebrew Scriptures - certainly not in Hebrew. In the Western countries (Europe, America etc.), they are born into a culture that promotes Jesus as G-d. They don't know better. It is an uphill battle for them to overcome if they so choose to think beyond what they learned by rote.

      I suggest you read this entire chapter of Matthew. Then decide your interpretation. It can always be contrary to the text, but at least you would have read the text fully before making your decision.................... "

      You see there are mistranslation in that Bible and I am not making it up and neither is anyone else.

      1. Make  Money profile image67
        Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I don't see a contradiction there either.

        The design of the coming of our Saviour was not meant to set a man at variance against his father and so on.  But Christ's coming and His doctrine would have this effect, because of the obstinate resistance that many would make, and of their persecuting those that adhere to Him.

        And we've seen this happen between Jews that followed Christ and those that didn't, the ancient Roman Empire persecuting Christians, we see it all the time, we see it in these forums, we've even seen man at variance against his father in these forums.

        LG if you are claiming that you are a "minister" I believe that you should make it very clear to your "flock" that you are not a Christian minister.  But I guess they would finally realize that themselves.

        Mike

        1. Make  Money profile image67
          Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          LG you might want to give this to your "Jewish scholar" friend that calls Jesus a lunatic.

          Both Benjamin H. Freedman (Jewish historian, researcher & scholar) and Jason Collett claim that Jesus was not a Jew and John Standring answers the question "Who was the First Jew?".

  22. Lady Guinevere profile image61
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    A bit of a History Lesson on the Bible and it's contents etc......

    ".....................The age of the Bible and certain cultures

    (Dates come from "Mesopotamia" by Julian Reade, a publication of the British Museum and "Atlas of the Bible," edited by James Pritchard, published Harper Collins)

    Early village settlements, Samarra culture, Halaf culture, Ubaid culture, Gawra culture, (about 4,000 - 8,000 B.C.E. "BCE")

    Uruk culture (3,000 - 4,000 BCE), late prehistoric period (2,750 - 3,300 BCE), Early Dynastic II - II periods (2,334 - 2,750 BCE)


    Akkadian Dynasty (2,154 - 2,334 BCE) including Sargon (2,279 - 2,334 BCE)


    Rulers of Lagash & Uruk, Third Dynasty of Ur, First Dynasty of Isin, Larsa Dynasty (1,763 - 2,155 BCE)



    First Dynasty of Babylon (1,595 - 1,894 BCE)



    Abram (Abraham later on) came from the land of Sumer (Shinar in the Bible), from the capital city known as Ur (Ur Kasdim in the Bible, Gen 11:31). His father and grandfather were long lived Sumerians that lived in the capital city of Ur (around 2,025 to 2,075 BCE). Abraham’s parents worshipped the gods of Sumer and he grew up with that culture. It says in Joshua 24:2, "Your forefathers, Terah the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor, always dwelt beyond the (Euphrates) river and they served gods (Elohim) of others."



    This also means that Abram would have heard the Sumerian mythology repeated every year during festivals, if he attended with his father & grandfather, until he left the land and went to Haran.


    The Israelites left Egypt around (1,250 - 1,350 BCE) depends on who you think was the pharaoh at the time and the dating of them.


    Invasion of the Sea Peoples the Phoenicians (about 1,200 - 1,250 BCE). Old Hebrew or Temple Script borrowed Phoenician letters as shown in "The Atlas of Languages, The Origin and Development of Languages Throughout the World." The names of the letters are Phoenician names. A quote from the books says, "Following the sixth-century Babylonian exile of the Jews, the Old Hebrew script gradually gave way to Aramaic. The old characters, are, however, still used as a liturgical script by the Samaritans. Modern Hebrew square characters have their origin in the Aramaic script."


    The time of Kind David and Solomon (about 931 - 1,000 BCE)


    During the reign of King Josiah of Judah, (around 609 - 641 BCE) all the torah (Bible) scrolls were lost in Israel until the high priest discovered one. After King Josiah, a religious man heard the words, apparently for the first time; he ordered all the temples of false gods destroyed and the Passover to be observed (II Kings Chap 22 & 23). It says, "this is the first time the Passover was observed since the days of the Judges and all the days of the kings of Israel and Judah" (that is between 200 - 300 years). Now this is a time when there is a holy temple in Jerusalem and there is worship and sacrifices going on there.



    Yet there are sill temples to false gods in Judah and no one has celebrated Passover for generations. Passover is currently one of the biggest holidays of the year for Jews; it celebrates the Jewish exile from Egypt. In fact that is Yahweh’s claim to fame in the Ten Commandments when it says "God (Elohim) spoke all these statements, saying, [I am the Lord (Yahweh) your god], that took you out of Egypt from the house of slavery." (Exodus. 20:2) [it should read "I am Yahweh, your god that... "]

    How could it be that the biggest holiday is not even celebrated during the time when the first holy temple is still in existence? What other parts of the Bible were forgotten during this time?

    During the lifetime of the prophet Jeremiah, during the reign of Jehoiakim the son of the previous King Josiah, (about 598 - 597 BCE), parts of the Bible were re-written by Jeremiah. Apparently they had lost much of it again because Jeremiah delivered it to the elders and advisors of the king, and when the elders read it, they were amazed (Jeremiah, Chap 36).



    But the king got mad when he heard Jeremiah’s prophecies of destruction and threw the scroll into the fire. So Jeremiah re-writes the scrolls once again from the words of Yahweh. This could also be called channeling. Here we have an example of the Bible actually telling us that it is being written in real time, as opposed to saying it is an old document.

    How many times has the Bible been lost and had to be re-written?

    How many foreign influences appeared to creep into the re-written Bible?

    When the Jews came back to Israel from the exile in Babylon (about 520 BCE), they had picked up the Babylonian names of the months of the year. They still use those names today even though the older Bible from the desert with Moses has numbered months, this all changed in a time span of 70 - 72 years of exile. The original names of the months are listed with the holidays that went with them in Numbers 28:16-39, an example is the first month, or the seventh month, that is how Yahweh and Moses labeled the months of the calendar.



    Here are examples of just three names of the 12 currently being used. Nisan from Nisanu, Tishrei from Tashritu, and my favorite Tammuz from Dumuzi, (Dumuzi is the actual name of a Sumerian god. Tammuz is the Semitic pronunciation. I am not sure if the Rabbis know they are using the name of an ancient false god for one of their month’s names).

    So when the final compilation of the Bible appeared during the years after returning from the Babylonian exile (around 520 BCE). The biblical authors incorporated their philosophy of one deity, Yahweh, into the copies of the scrolls. Whatever attributes a previous god may have had, was retained and given to Yahweh on paper. If the story was holy and the deeds were attributed to Anu, Enki, Enlil, Inanna or Marduk it became the property of the Elohim or Yahweh. Probably Elohim was a clue to uncover those stories that showed an earlier influence from Mesopotamia. Why not just give one name to all the other gods mentioned and save much time?



    Remember the Bible is trying to prove there is only one god, which is the point of the document. So we can accomplish this by putting all individual names into one general term, plural of course, and for the priests with the secret knowledge that know for themselves, we just incorporated the great stories the public knows and made them specific to our culture and our congregation. Who would know about the older tablets, who would know we borrowed?

    This plan did work until the late 1880’s, and early 1900’s when archeologists started to finally dig out the texts in their original tablet form and the scholars translated them. They were astonished to find so much of the source material for the Bible. This plan worked for more than 2,000 years, most people thought the biblical stories were original to the Bible. Even now people are astonished when I tell them there are stories of semi human/semi divine characters and stories of resurrection from 2000 - 3000 years before the time of Jesus and even Abraham.

    The modern version of the Bible was probably read by Ezra (about 464 BCE) at the inauguration of the Second holy temple in Jerusalem. Obviously scholars disagree with the exact dating........................................"

    Read more on the site: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bibli … zar_22.htm

  23. allshookup profile image57
    allshookupposted 8 years ago

    We do not think that there's anyone who's not fit to live. (well, I'm speaking for myself, but I have see VP speak, so I don't feel he feels that he's God either) Although I am for the death penalty for those found guilty of murder and the jury sentences them to it. I live in a state where we put people to death. Nothing you said showed any proof of the Bible contradicting itself, because it doesn't. I've read the Bible through many times. But, I don't have time to deal with you right now because I have to go to the hospital to help with my father-in-law.

    Priorities you know.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      First, I hope that your father in law continues to improve.

      So now you agree with the death penalty even though it is one of GODS commandments to not kill?

      Which version of the Genesis acount is the truth in the Bible?  There are two accounts you know--or maybe you glossed over them....
      Who is Lillith?  When Adam and Eve were on the garden they were the only two people on the planet.  So where id Cain and Abel's wives come from?
      Is incest a sin?

      Oh and so it is not a conversation but now a parent-to-child converstion in the way that you say"deal with" me?  Hey you re not God nor my mother nor my father nor anyone that I should bow down too.......

  24. Lady Guinevere profile image61
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    A list of Biblical Contradictions:
    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ … tions.html

    Just a snippet of what is on that site:
    "............The Bible is riddled with repetitions and contradictions, things that the Bible bangers would be quick to point out in anything that they want to criticize. For instance, Genesis 1 and 2 disagree about the order in which things are created, and how satisfied God is about the results of his labors. The flood story is really two interwoven stories that contradict each other on how many of each kind of animal are to be brought into the Ark--is it one pair each or seven pairs each of the "clean" ones? The Gospel of John disagrees with the other three Gospels on the activities of Jesus Christ (how long had he stayed in Jerusalem--a couple of days or a whole year?) and all four Gospels contradict each other on the details of Jesus Christ's last moments and resurrection. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke contradict each other on the genealogy of Jesus Christ's father; though both agree that Joseph was not his real father. Repetitions and contradictions are understandable for a hodgepodge collection of documents, but not for some carefully constructed treatise, reflecting a well-thought-out plan.

    Of the various methods I've seen to "explain" these:

    1. "That is to be taken metaphorically." In other words, what is written is not what is meant. I find this entertaining, especially for those who decide what ISN'T to be taken as other than the absolute WORD OF GOD--which just happens to agree with the particular thing they happen to want...

    2. "There was more there than...." This is used when one verse says "there was a" and another says "there was b," so they decide there was "a" AND "b"--which is said nowhere. This makes them happy, since it doesn't say there WASN'T "a+b." But it doesn't say there was "a+b+little green martians." This is often the same crowd that insists theirs is the ONLY possible interpretation (i.e., only "a") and the only way. I find it entertaining they they don't mind adding to verses.

    3. "It has to be understood in context." I find this amusing because it comes from the same crowd that likes to push likewise extracted verses that support their particular view. Often it is just one of the verses in the contradictory set which is supposed to be taken as THE TRUTH when, if you add more to it, it suddenly becomes "out of context." How many of you have gotten JUST John 3:16 (taken out of all context) thrown at you?

    4. "There was just a copying/writing error." This is sometimes called a "transcription error," as in where one number was meant and an incorrect one was copied down. Or what was "quoted" wasn't really what was said, but just what the author thought was said. And that's right--I'm not disagreeing with events, I'm disagreeing with what is WRITTEN. Which is apparently agreed that it is incorrect. This is an amusing misdirection to the problem that the Bible itself is wrong.........."

    And there are lots more of them onb the web site!

  25. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    Oh Lady G.;

    "This is one of the "proof text" I use as a Jew to say the man Jesus was a lunatic. Certainly not Messiah who will, according to Torah, be a Man of Peace."

    I need say no more...

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Snicker, snicker----you didn;t even read what I said.  Take those rose colored glasses off your friggen face!!!

      Shalom, who wrote this above--NOT MNE AND I EVEN SAID THAT I DID NOT WRITE IT, is a Jewish scoloar and he should lknow what is in the Torah and what is in the Bible.  Jesus was a Jew--or do youy also have that wrong.......????

      1. viralprospector profile image56
        viralprospectorposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Lady G;

        I realize that your posts would make an English teacher cringe, but you said this. If you are paraphrasing, you need to put quotes on it or else indicate it is someone else saying it. Either way, you wrote it here, and I have a big problem with that. I inadvertently read trash, but that does not compel me to post it on an open forum. You did not make any allusion to another saying this. Don't blame me for trying my best to wade through sentences that seem to be written with so much anger that they are virtually nonsense. I understand a typo or two, but not a sentence meaning the opposite of what is written.

        You also wrote more blasphemy, but I suppose you just were paraphrasing someone else, who knows...

        "...they are born into a culture that promotes Jesus as G-d. They don't know better. It is an uphill battle for them to overcome if they so choose to think beyond what they learned by rote."

  26. lionswhelp profile image79
    lionswhelpposted 8 years ago

    I though the question was,"What was the purpose of Jesus's disciples.' There are several quick answers see. Matthew 28:18-20 -  And Jesus came andspoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and earth. "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.....TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. Lo I am with you always even to the end of the age. AMEN.

    On the Day of Pentecost 31 A.D. one orf these disciples now the apostle Peter Said the Samething, see in 1 Peter 2:38 - "Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. "for the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as our God will call." A nd with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saving, "be saved from thisw perverse generation."

    This is thesame thing jesus repeated to his disciples in Acts 1:6-8 > Therefore , when they had cone together. They asked him saying, "Lord, will you at thistime restore the kingdom of Israel?" And he said, 'It is not for you to know the times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you; and you shall be witnesses to me in jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

    This was and still is the purpose of Christ disciples for Jesus has sent them for that very same purpose of preaching the Gospel to all nations because he is the same Jesus yesterday, today and forever, Hebrews 13:8.

    And Malachi 3:6-7, For I am the Lord, I do not change not;  Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob. Yet from the days of your fathers you have gone away from My ordinances and have not kept them. Return to me and I will return to you." Says the Lord of hosts. But you said, "In what way will we return to you? See verses 8-12.

    And verses 16 -18 > Then those who feared the Lord spoke one to another (spread the Gospel) to one another. And the Lord listened and heard them (preaching the Gospel?). So a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear the Lord and meditate on His name. They shall be Mine, "says the Lord of Host, "On that day I will make them my jewels. and I will spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him." Then you shall again discern between the righteous and the wicked. between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him.

    The Lionswhelp

  27. Onusonus profile image88
    Onusonusposted 8 years ago

    As people of Christ it behooves us to be wise, and to seek to know the will of God, and then be willing to do it for "Blessed is he who heareth the word and keepeth it." say the scriptures. "Watch and pray always" says our savior. "That you may be accounted worthy to escape the things that are to come on the Earth, and to stand before the son of man" (see Luke 11;28, & 21:36)
         If Enoch, Abraham, Moses, and the children of Israel, and all of God's people were saved by keeping the commandments of God, we, if saved at all, will be saved on the same principle. As God governed Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as families, and the children of Israel as a nation; so we as a Church, must be under his guidance if we are prospered, preserved, and sustained. Our only confidence can be in God, our only wisdom obtained from him; and he alone must be our protector and safeguard, spiritualy and temporaly, or we fall.

  28. lionswhelp profile image79
    lionswhelpposted 8 years ago

    Well, Jesus was a Jew from Mary's side of the family. To be considered a Jew from Judah the Jews say that you must have a Jewish mother. There must be proof of this from a rabbi somewhere. I will look into this and make sure. Jesus did not have a human father see, Matthew 1:18-23, John 3:16-18. The Jewish line is from Joseph in Matthew 1-16 & Luke 3:23-38, his stepfather.

    Jesus did not come to bring peace on earth the first time but he will the next time, compare Matthew 10:34-40; Revelation 19 & 20 at the end of the Third World War to put and end to all wars for a 1,000 years.

    Lionswhelp

    1. mohitmisra profile image54
      mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Correct the prophet will come and create peace between religions who fight foolishly in the name of One God.He will destroy egoes ,this is what is meant he will come as a sword,spread god knowledge which will help humanity to see the simlarities in all prophets and religions. smile

      1. viralprospector profile image56
        viralprospectorposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Mohitmisra;

        Spreading "God knowledge" could indeed be considered a part of the sword. The sword is to fight satan with scripture and the Holy Spirit. However, it is absolutely not to see the similarities of prophets and religions.

        1. mohitmisra profile image54
          mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Its only ego and attachment to ones religion which unables you to see the oneness in all prophets and religions smile
          They all taught universal brotherhood and oneness of all. smile

    2. Make  Money profile image67
      Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Lionswhelp you replied to this,



      with this.



      Yeah I believe both Mary and Joseph were from the line of David, weren't they.  But what Benjamin Freedman and Jason Collett are saying is that Jesus was a 'Judean', not a Jew.

  29. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    LIonswhelp;

    I know what you are saying about peace. Jesus did not accomplish the eternal peace yet. That will come, and that is a great point.

    Jesus did come to bring peace and succeeded. It is just that only believers share in that peace, so far.

    1. maestrowhit profile image60
      maestrowhitposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      you must not be one of those believers, then - with all the fighting you instigate and engage in on these pages. You display anything but peace.

      1. viralprospector profile image56
        viralprospectorposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Truly, satan is my arch enemy, and I will stop at nothing to fight him.

        1. maestrowhit profile image60
          maestrowhitposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          My point exactly. You display anything but peace on these pages. You categorize everyone who challenges your doctrines as Satan. You must think that you are 100% right about everything.

  30. t.keeley profile image82
    t.keeleyposted 8 years ago

    Bible says:

    Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you

    Flee temptation

    Resist the Devil, he will flee from you


    I see nothing of personally doing battle with satan here. Simply resisting is all we are commanded to do. I'd rather leave the battle to the guy who is much stronger than us.

    I know, I know...we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, so in essence we do the battling, right?

    I certainly don't believe so. There are many more verses simply telling us we are our own worst enemies and that we can't even beat our own nature, much less the devil. The day I trust ANY man, no matter his intention, on beating Satan in a  battle is the day my soul doesn't lay on that line. I think it's a joke to even conspire such impossibility, IMHO.

    We're not commanded to do battle. We have very, very few commandments given to us by Christ and it's impossible to follow even those, why aim so high as to be the one to beat down satan?

    1. profile image0
      SirDentposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      In essence, you are right. The Word also says that we war not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and powers. So we do fight.

      If I recall correctly, lionswhelp pretty much summed it up what the Disciples purpose was. Why hasn't anyone addressed what he/she wrote?

      Mat 10:1  And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

      Luk 9:1  Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

      Luk 9:2  And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

      Can anyone see what Jesus told them to do? It does go father than what is written here.

      Luk 9:3  And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.

      Luk 9:4  And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.

      Luk 9:5  And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

      Anything else need to be said?

  31. t.keeley profile image82
    t.keeleyposted 8 years ago

    Doing battle with satan vs. preaching the gospel....in the sense you're talking if, it's "fighting" to a degree. I'm speaking of the total inability to have any success in a match against the second most powerful being in the universe. God is more powerful, yes, but we certainly aren't.

    1. maestrowhit profile image60
      maestrowhitposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I guess VP thinks he's the second coming of Christ

      1. t.keeley profile image82
        t.keeleyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I mean, I'm not saying that. I feel there's borderline misunderstanding of obvious doctrine here, but not to an enormously extreme extent. The spiritual war exists only between God and Satan, we are in the crossfire because 1) we are depraved and 2) we are powerless. God chooses us, empowers us, sends us on a mission for Him, etc. Call it warfare, but our salvation is not our own to claim, and neither is our weaponry. I mean, the 'fruits of the spirit' are just that, the spirit. Nothing to do with us, and neither is whether or not we're 'good enough' to flee temptation--or worse, battle the devil himself. It's simply (IMO) a misrepresentation of the reality that is grace superseding pride.

    2. profile image0
      SirDentposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I only ask this question of you. Is he in you?

      1. t.keeley profile image82
        t.keeleyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        And I return with a question, if He were, who is truly doing any of the fighting?

  32. profile image0
    SirDentposted 8 years ago

    If you re-read the scriptures I posted earlier, you will see that the power was given to the disciples. If we fight in the name of the Lord, we will be victorious. If we fight in our own power we will lose.

    God did not leave us powerless. That's all I have time for at the moment also. Maybe I'll come back later this evening with more if I feel it needs to be stated.

    1. t.keeley profile image82
      t.keeleyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      You're missing the point: power is given by the spirit. Remove the spirit an there's no power. Therefore you're really not the guy doing the fighting.

      1. profile image0
        SirDentposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        OK. It seems the thread has been hijacked. I agree.

  33. Onusonus profile image88
    Onusonusposted 8 years ago

    Satan cannot seduce us by his enticements unless we in our hearts consent and yield. Our organization is such that we can resist the Devil, if it were not so, we would not be free agents.
    The Devil has no power over us except if we permit him; the moment we revolt against anything that comes from God, the Devil takes power.
    From the beginning Satan was generally blamed for the evils which we do, but if he was the cause for our wickedness, men would not be condemned. the Devil would not compell mankind to do evil; all was voluntary.Those who resisted the spirit of God would would be liable to be lead into temptation, and then the association of heaven would be withdrawn from those who refused to be made partakers of such great glory. God would not exert compulsory means, and the Devil could not either.

    1. allshookup profile image57
      allshookupposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I agree. Well said Onusonus.

  34. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 8 years ago

    Thus free will is evil.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      haha, not having free will is evil too.  I think there is a pattern developing here.

  35. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 8 years ago

    "Thus free will is evil."
    "haha, not having free will is evil too.  I think there is a pattern developing here."
    Yes we do seem to have a problem.
    Yes we do seem to have a problem.
    Yes we do seem to have a problem.
    Yes we do seem to have a problem.
    Yes we do seem to have a problem.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      No, there is no problem.
      No, there is no problem.
      No, there is no problem.
      No, there is no problem.
      No, there is no problem.
      No, there is no problem.

      smile  oh I mean sad

  36. lionswhelp profile image79
    lionswhelpposted 8 years ago

    Its all about choice . Choose good or evil, one or the other. One is Eternal life the other is eternal death. Its easier when you repent of the evil choices we make and then receive the gift of the Holy Spirit to help us, Romans 8:1-7.

    Jesus Christ said his burden is light,Matthew 11:30. Sin just drags us back down to the grave or hell Romans 6:23. Choose life1

    Lionswhelp

  37. crazyhorsesghost profile image76
    crazyhorsesghostposted 8 years ago

    Free Will


    Dt.30:19
        I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life.

    Joshua 24:15
        Choose you this day whom ye will serve.... But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

    What the Bible says about Free Will

    God determines who is going to heaven ...

        "And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." -- Acts 13:48

        "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." -- Romans 8:29-30

        "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began." -- 2 Timothy 1:9

        "He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will." -- Ephesians 1:4-5

        "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:13

    and who is going to hell.

        "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

        "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation." -- Jude 4

    There is what the Bible says about Free Will

    As far as the purpose of the disciples it  is and was the great commission.

    And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. (Matthew 28:18-20)

    1. Make  Money profile image67
      Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I'd have to agree with Sandra that sometimes we all get a little too zealous in our posts, me included.

      That said I believe the gnostic writings were not included in the Bible for a reason.  That reason is because they contradict other parts of the Bible.  There were a lot of writings to choose from back then.  Some were inspired by God and others were not.  If we are to believe Revelation 2:7 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches" and Matthew 16:18 "upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" then we should understand that the Holy Spirit was with the church when they chose the books to include in the Bible because they were inspired by God.     

      To continue on Sandra's thoughts I'd like to say that after reading these two Bible quotes below I remember myself saying in another thread about free will a few weeks back that predestination was a cop out, which is clearly not true.  My apologies.  Maya copa, maya copa.   


      Just to clarify what myself and quite a few others were saying in that other thread about free will is that some denominations will have you believe that it does not matter what you do in this life as long as you think you are predestined.  This is not quite true when you consider James 2:26 "faith without works is dead" or Revelation 20:12 "and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."  All our good flows originally from God's free goodness and all our evil from man's free will. That other thread about free will got quite emotional.

      I'm not saying this to start that debate again.  Just to show that we all have faults, me included.

      There should be lots of grace poured out by the Holy Spirit in this coming festive season.

      Mike

  38. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 8 years ago

    "The Devil has no power over us except if we permit him; the moment we revolt against anything that comes from God, the Devil takes power." 
    'revolt against anything that comes from God,' = free will devil
    'anything that comes from God,' = no free will obey god

    1. crazyhorsesghost profile image76
      crazyhorsesghostposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Have you read the story of Job

  39. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 8 years ago

    "Have you read the story of Job" Can't say that I have. Have you
    read the 'Razor's Edge' by W. Somerset Maugham

    1. crazyhorsesghost profile image76
      crazyhorsesghostposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I go by the Bible and try to stay with the King James Version as it is the closest to the original texts. In the book of Job God allowed the Devil to do all kinds of horrible things to Job. 

      'Razor's Edge' by W. Somerset Maugham is interesting. Just went and looked it up.

      The Razor's Edge is a novel by W. Somerset Maugham written in 1944. Its epigraph reads, "The sharp edge of a razor is difficult to pass over; thus the wise say the path to Salvation is hard." —Katha-Upanishad.

      However John 3.16-21 is there for anyone

      John 3:16-21 (King James Version)

      16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

      17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

      18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

      19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

      20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

      21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

  40. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 8 years ago

    Looked at your profile - you are a good guy.
    "The sharp edge of a razor is difficult to pass over; thus the wise say the path to Salvation is hard." —Katha-Upanishad.
    Guess depends on one's definition of salvation. Do think you would find it a great book. One of the greats. Time for din din.

    1. crazyhorsesghost profile image76
      crazyhorsesghostposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Yes I plan on getting it and reading it. Thanks for pointing it out.

  41. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    Crazyhorseghost;

    I understand your point, and it is a good one regarding Job. However, the whole story gives me a different conclusion of it than I read that you have.

    You say to read the story of Job. Clearly, God had boundaries on satan. Clearly, God was on the side of Job, and that made all the difference in the end.

    I say read the New Testament. Jesus said that we can do greater things than Him through faith in Him than He did. He fully resisted satan, and satan had no power over Him whatsoever.

    The story of Job was to show what the power of a Godly man can do. Job won, and God's perfect will was accomplished. Blessings seven fold...  Prayers for him from those who disbelieved... People who thought they knew God... Wow, great stuff, but hardly what you have characterized it as...

    I am living testament that the power of satan is far less than the power of Jesus and those who have Him in us. Believe in Him, and you will trample satan in the ground. God will not give us more than we can handle. To quote my dear friend, \o/

    This is just another side of one of the greatest stories ever told, and I am very glad that you mentioned Job. He is so admirable.

  42. Lady Guinevere profile image61
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    Okay, I have been sick the last few days and then I had to take care of a very sick cat so I have not been able to get on the internet.  Still today I don't feel all tht good, but didn't want things to get away from me--as apparenlty they have here!

    Mike, I DID tell everyone that I am a spokeslperson for Jesus and not a Religion or Church.  You must have missed that battle in VP's thread! lol

    I also put the words of the Jesish person's words in Quotations--on this editor they are kind of hard to see--but they are there!

    Crayzyhorseghost--Thanks for stopping by!  I love your thorough posts on the Bible and it's meanings. 

    Whoever posted the jobs of the Diescipes --YES they are there and yes I do agree with them and YES why hasn't anyone paid attention to those and what this original question asked!!!

    I believe we just have some people here that think they are the only ones who know everything and they are the only ones who are correct in everything and that makes them think they have the right to fight.............I guess the commercial addage mya be used here:
    Better Fight then switch....hmmmm!

    Again for everyone's edification:
    I am a minister for Jesus the Christ.  I use and read the Bible the same as everyone else.  Alot of things are not in that Bible and some things have been mis translated and I do not take verses out of context-if I can help it.  I don't beleive in doctrine and Dogma of certain religions but only of Jesus-and remember Jesus didn't belong to a church perse then and things were different then---much different then they are today.  Live's were different, perspectives, food, livlyhood, ways of life, how women were treated and the like were VERY different----and so was the Land and politics we also very different.  So that being said I take a much different approach to the scriptures than those who are here.  I see a bigger picture then those who want to take things out of context and ignore history and other such things that contributed to that ible and it's people's.

    Jesus was a Nazarene---------------period-------------------a different sect of Jewishness.  Now those books and things about Jesus's life were said to be heresy---you got to ask yourself why....  Why was the things about his life and teachings stripped from the Bible and called heresy when it is all about him and not christians..why were they replaced...................ask youself why did the people who put together that Bible think that Jesus's very own teachings were inferior to those who wanted all the power over him and---saw a vehicle to promote their money schemes and popularity (vanity and pride) on the people..................do you see where I am coming from? Some may and some will just want to fight about it I suppose.

    I am going to get off here and go lay down some more.........................

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      First, I hope you and your cat get better soon.  I have been sick too so I sucks. 
      From my perspective, watching you and VP go at it all the time doesn't say much about you character either. 

      I mean, I think you are great, I love what you write and I understand what you are saying, however you do just the same as VP.  Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and conclusions just like you.  Sometimes what people say doesn't really reflect well on what they mean or what their intentions really are because, well...you are on the internet. 

      It does come across like you are shouting or angry a lot and I know you said you are not so I keep in in mind.  I also know that peoples life experiences have an effect on the way they interpret the Bible, and you have said this before.  So maybe sometimes VP says things that bug me but I have to think about where he has been and get to the bottom of why he would say things like so etc. 

      Now, If I remember correctly, VP is a couselor for abused women.  (correct me if I am wrong) and meastrowhit used to work in a high security prison and you, yourself were abused....

      I think that if you are all talking about the same person, Jesus and his deciples then you all should have some repsect for each other.  I know a while back I got ridiculously irritated with Sir Dent, but that didn't last long, and Mike too but the thing about them is that deep down inside they, just like you, are doing what you believe you should be doing, and preaching what you believe should be preached and so even when you all have different thoughts or interpretations about things, you should be striving to make better doers instead of teachers.

      A teacher can only tell you what something says, teach you how to read and add but it is up to the student to do it.  Those who cannot do, teach.  You have heard that saying right?

      The deciples, while coming with the same message, all have different methods of teaching.  Women back then flocked to Paul because he was liberating to women and women found themselves empowered by Paul to not be taken for granted or forced to have sex or marry because their folks said so.  Other think Paul was pushy and mean and very othodoxed preistly like. 

      When it comes to the gnostic gospels and the aposlte Mary, I would say that those were left out because even while the Deciples of Jesus had to accept her they didn't always like the idea of a gnostic women being favored by Jesus, yet the message came though, that women are to be accepted as well.  So, while they did their best to do as Jesus said, not everyone did, so exclusion from the Bible was what they did. 

      Also note, if you will, that a lot of those lost books were excluded because they didn't have any genuine evidence to suggest it's authenticity.  Taking Paul in Thecela for example.  The authors of the book admitted that it was a fraud but they did it because they wanted to people to know about he miracles of Jesus that Paul had come to preach.  It was wrong of them and they knew it,  so there is always a tidbit of something juicy that you can take from it.  From this story, it wasn't about the story, it was about telling the truth, repentence if you will. 

      Or the story of Valentine, you sorta remind me of him in his gospel because Valentine only preached a loving message, always!!!  There wasn't a non-understanding bone in his body yet, just like today, people ridiculed him and said mean things and called him a liar and even made him cry and he turned to some and he said: I am He, and He is in Me, just as Jesus asked his followers to approach his teachings.  But like today, with "Satan" governing our thoughts and interpretations, it is not your fault that people are eager to toss out a loving message for one that comes with a sward. 

      And I don't believe one bit (for the most part) that they do this because they like it but because they are doing their part in what they believe and as you already know, everyone gets a different message and it is not hard to understand why people clash even when it comes to the message that Jesus sent out. 

      I think that all of you will eventually reconcile your differencesa and be brothers because Jesus asked us to accept each other.  If you go to hell for loving an athiesit or gnostic or whatever, then fine, but would you really believe that Jesus would send you to Hell for loving people?  Of course not. 

      LG, you defend youself to the point where I wonder if it hurts your feelings to have to spend more time defending your beliefs then doing what you were asked to do?  If this is the case then how effective can you be? 

      My very long two cents about respecting peoples boundaries and opinions just as you wish they would do for you.  Fighting is a waste of time.  I hope you aren't offended by what I say or feel in anyway that I am taking sides because that is not true.  For me it is like a mother seeing her husband and son fight.  Something just isn't right with it. 

      Feel better soon. Hugs!  smile

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Not offened, just suprised.  I don't know how to say what I say other than the way that I say it.  To me it is not angry or anger in my words, because I am not angry.  That is the way that the other person takes my words on their end.  Yes I have been in the internet on many social groups for like forever.  I used to run a BBS way back in the 80's so I know what can go through and what is taken from the words over a social media. 
        It's funny that you should use the word anger and well as some others because when one is presented with another thought unlike their own it is anger that is the first response. 
        I am not angry.  How else am I supposed to say what I am saying?
        A teacher can only teach what they know--and so I am trying to do so. A teaher can also learn from their students.

        I don't know what VP is in his daily life so I can only speak to what he says to me...........same as the others here.  My abuse has nothing to do with this and don't really get your point.

        I didn't know about any person named Valetine.  I do know about some of the gospels--like Mary and Thomas and such and the other books, The books of Adam and Eve and several others.
        There is another who gave an unbiased story about Jesus and that is Josephus.
        I did try to stayo ut of VP's way but he chose to follow me to this forum.  He did tell me that he was not going to read or respond to my thoughts and words many weeks ago on his very own Forum.  If I feel threatened I will do so right back --that is human and I am human. 
        Jesus was human too and he wasn't liked by  some either.  Did that make him an angry person?

  43. profile image0
    sandra rinckposted 8 years ago

    Hi LG,  It wasn't Valentine, the name was Valentinus, The Gospel of Truth by Valentinus.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I still haven't heard of that.  I  read the ones that are on http://www.reluctant-messenger.com/

      There is another site that has alot of manuscripts of very different cultures and books and all kinds of writings.  I find it a bit confusing to get around but some others might be fine with it and that site is: http://www.sacred-texts.com/
      Then there is the site and I don't know that site address right now but it is The Nazarene Way that has many of the gospels on it too.  I haven't been there in a while so I forget all the stuff they do have on there but remember they had good things there.  There is The Lord's Prayer on one of the sites that has the Mother Earth in the prayers itself.  This was supposed to have been for just the desciples only and they shortnened it for the rest of the peopl's I maight be able to find where it is and post it her or on another forum post.  Give me to Friday to find it though as I don't remember exactly where it was that I happened upon it.

      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        It's in the Nag Hamadi.  smile

        http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/got.html

        This one has some slight differences from the translator but still the same message is intact. And this one is slightly shorter then the one I have.  I think you will love it!  It's not too long and I know you will find yourself in it.  smile

        1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Here it is Sandra.  The Lords's Prayer--the original that Jesus spoke to the Desciples:
          http://www.thenazareneway.com/ght_secti … ction%2019
          It's Lection 19 on that page.

  44. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    Sandra;

    You wrote, "So maybe sometimes VP says things that bug me but I have to think about where he has been and get to the bottom of why he would say things like so etc."

    I think that if you disagree with me, you should be specific. I think otherwise you are just ganging up. I realize you are being objective in this post, but how can I know what you disagree with if you make a blanket statement like that? There is far, far too much of that "I just hate you..." crap now. I sure hope you do not just start throwing around empty insults, too.

    Really, the best way to know what I think is to ask me.

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      The thing is that I am not in a disagreement with you, I just sometimes don't like the way you put things.  For me, I like the light side, the happy love hippi side of life and the message of Christ and for me I chose to just be nice, accept people as they are, if they say something that is mean to me, I shake it off and give the benifit of the doubt that they just didn't mean it that way. 

      Though sometimes they come back and say Yes I did and I hate you or you are the Devil or whatever else some people want to say, but I just think to myself, it's fine, better that they toss dish it out to someone who can take it then someone that it could hurt. 

      Anyways you are right, there is far too much, "I hate you" crap floating around in cyber space to get the message of peace and love out.  So, I will be sure to ask you directly if I have any questions pertaining to you.  hugs!

  45. Lady Guinevere profile image61
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    Mike you said:
    "Just to clarify what myself and quite a few others were saying in that other thread about free will is that some denominations will have you believe that it does not matter what you do in this life as long as you think you are predestined."

    What you are assuming is that  you think that they wasy that you can do anything that you want, but that is not so either.
    Karma and cause and effect rule everyone, not matter what religion, policitc or country or race or color that one is.  What you do and say and think all have an outcome and a re-action and an effect.  You may not see it right away but it does and I don't think they they think that they can do anything-God did not make it that way.  One can believe all they want that if they do something in this life that it will have no consequences down the road or when we die---does it happen........ No, nope, not a chance.

    On a personal note, I asked my husband what it was that he thought my problem was--and he reads some of my stuff---and he thought that just maybe it was my delivery.  See I don't like people beating around the bush or sugar-coating their words for me and so I don't do it to others.  I tell it right out.....he said that maybe it is the way that the perosn readling the stuff is taking it becaseu they don't know me or know how I work-------and believe me I am not a sheeple.  I just and different and always have been.  I don't do alot of things like other people do.  Just maybe that is why Jesus called me--I don't know the answer to that question.  I don't like conrontations.  Really I don't.  Some days I just don't read things on here because I already fear a dissagreement and will just shy away from it.

  46. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    Mohitmisra;

    The Bible clearly states that worshipping idols is a sin. The Bible says that we can have no other gods before Him. There is no oneness in Christianity with Mohammad, Buddha or any other 'whatever these guys are called'.

    You may think there is some oneness of all these characters, and I have no trouble with you as you are not a Christian, but Christians disagree with you. I am not trying to convince you. I know I cannot. I am just saying that your theory is lost on all Christians. They are commanded to disregard your hypothesis. Peace...

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Then why do Christians have idols or graven images in their churches?

      1. allshookup profile image57
        allshookupposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        What idol or graven image are you talking about?

        1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Man when faced with thruth do they not paly dum.

          Jesus on the cross for one example.  Do you actually read your Bible about the Ten Comandments?

          1. allshookup profile image57
            allshookupposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            I realize your intelligence is waaaayyy far above mine, but we do NOT have any thing resembling Jesus on the cross in my house or in my church. I guess you come to your conclusion since you have been to my house and my church!?!?? We do not have any pictures of Jesus at all in my house or Church. We don't do that. That's why I cannot understand you lying about us like that. I don't know what that picture is that Mark put on his post. I'm guessing some sort of church somewhere since that is what he's talking about, but it does NOT resemble mine or any I've ever been to. I don't even know what that stuff on the picture is. I am not playing 'dum.' I am telling the truth. We don't put Jesus in pictures or statues or on the cross since He's not there anymore. 'minister', you're not telling facts, especially about my house and church.

            1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
              Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Hmm I must have hit a cord hmmm. I must remember this nest time you come and attakc me for no reason either.

              I don't seem to recall telling you that those tings were in your house---so just stop putting words in my mouth.
              I am groing really tired of you anyway...........

              1. allshookup profile image57
                allshookupposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                You used the word 'Christians', well, I am one of them. So, yeah, that's me and my house and my church. So the 'nest' time you want to 'attakc' a group of people, please find out the truth first. The word 'Christians' covers a lot of people who would not like to be talked about having idols in their churches when, I for one, and my church, for many, don't. You could say ' some people' and that would be more accurate.

                1. Lady Guinevere profile image61
                  Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  Boy do you like to flame people.  Is love in your vocabulary at all?  I am also a Christian-----read your Bible and maybe go to the hub to see what LOVE really is and find out the FACTS that as well..

                  1. viralprospector profile image56
                    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    Lady G;

                    Allshookup hardly flamed you...

                    Whoops, actually it is you that flamed out. Or is it your way of being nice to say "I am growing really tired of you anyway". She didn't say anything out of line, even in reply to that nasty comment.

    2. mohitmisra profile image54
      mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      So why do you have statues and idols of Jesus and why Churches since the Bible clearly states worshipping idols is a sin-why are all of you sinning?

      How can you speak for all Christians I have spoken to many and they understand me perfectly.

      The Christian merges with the holy spirit,
      Peace no more desperate.

      According to you there may be many gods but according to me there is only one God-the light what Jesus was talking about something I have seen-come across. smile
      Everything including Jesus,Buddha and all humans have come from god the light which is the source of all and will go back to the light. smile

      If you take the effort to read about other religions and masters you will see that what Jesus was talking about is nothing new but was mentioned by many enlightened ones before him. smile

  47. viralprospector profile image56
    viralprospectorposted 8 years ago

    Mohitmisra;

    "So why do you have statues and idols of Jesus and why Churches since the Bible clearly states worshipping idols is a sin-why are all of you sinning?"

    Symbols are hardly idols. To have things that represent our passion is not worshiping idols. I do not sacrifice my dog to my statue of the cross. Come on, you know better than that.

    "How can you speak for all Christians I have spoken to many and they understand me perfectly."

    I never speak for any more Christians than me. Why do you accuse me of that? Is it because I know what God commands a Christian to be? If so, then, I grant you your point. There is really very little wiggle room for Christians. This is not the "all about love" "hey whatever feels good" that is protrayed by flase Christians on hubpages. If you study Christianity, you will learn that. I am not fooled by all the rhetoric from false Christians. I believe in the Bible 100% as commanded by God. Why is that so hard to understand?

    "The Christian merges with the holy spirit,
    Peace no more desperate."

    I agree with the first part of that, but do not understand the second part.

    "According to you there may be many gods but according to me there is only one God-the light what Jesus was talking about something I have seen-come across. 
    Everything including Jesus,Buddha and all humans have come from god the light which is the source of all and will go back to the light."

    That is totally false to say I believe in many gods. I never ever said that. There is only one God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Buddha is an example of the idols. All that "light" stuff is pretty much just incomprehensible to me. I guess you would need to describe it more. All I wanted to do is help you understand true Christianity, not the false description of it. Christianity is simply total belief in the major translations of the Holy Bible, nothing less. That is the only starting point. Without knowing what it is, people just guess and read internet crap for their direction. The Bible is the one and only source. Then, the Holy Spirit goes to work in us.

    "If you take the effort to read about other religions and masters you will see that what Jesus was talking about is nothing new but was mentioned by many enlightened ones before him."

    Mohitmisra, that is a very big mistake to think that I do not know about the other "masters". To illustrate my point, how many college credit hours do you have in the study of religions, any religion? What University granted you those hours? My challenges are so well loved on hp that I will gladly compare my credentials to yours. Do not make stupid idle statements accusing others of lack of study when you have never discussed those issues with them.

    I believe that I have admitted to you that I never studied Hinduism, at length, so I have never challenged your knowledge of it. Yet you want to question my knowledge of Christianity. If you get all your knowledge from anywhere other than the Bible (including me), you know nothing of Christianity. Quit the silly questioning of that. It seemed to me that you were not willing to stoop so low as the others here who show their igfnorance of the Word. Quit your speculation. It is unwise, and you are better than that.

    1. mohitmisra profile image54
      mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Exactly its away of paying respect and I said before I think its fine.This if for idols.

      "The Christian merges with the holy spirit,
      Peace no more desperate."

      I agree with the first part of that, but do not understand the second part.
      You will after you get enlightened  smile

      The light is the holy spirit.
      qualifications-a few rankings of my work "Ponder Awhile" on Best Book Buys

      Poetry-Inspirational and Religious< out of a collection of  books 3,828 books
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      Body,mind and Spirit<Spiritualism < collection of  2,324 books
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      God willing my book shall catch up with the holy  Bible smile

      I have knowledge of the light or holy spirit or god like Jesus.Dont you think I understand holy books like the Bible better than you.? smile

      Which school or college did Jesus go to? I went to the same. smile

      1. Make  Money profile image67
        Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Well said VP.  I'd also like to add that a lot of people have photos of their loved ones as well which can not be considered as idols.

        1. mohitmisra profile image54
          mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Everyone is not sacrificing animals to their idols.The Sikhs and Mulsims are against Idol worship but I think it okay as its a physical representation of the divine.
          Dont negate other religions and masters is what I am saying. :)have tolerance
          Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. smile

          1. countrywomen profile image60
            countrywomenposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Mohit- Why are you even trying to convince some body to think otherwise? They have very limited understanding of Hinduism and don't believe a word of what you say. When people have gaps in their understanding they tend to fill the gaps with their own perceptions to complete the whole picture. "Sacrificing dogs" says what their perception is and even of those who agree with him. Except for spending your time and energy nothing you say is going to change even one person who doesn't want to believe in what you say. If some one wants to find reasons to criticize others & their beliefs their will always be many but it takes a great soul to find even one reason to respect others & their beliefs.

            1. mohitmisra profile image54
              mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              You are sweet countrywomen but being enlightened this is my job.By spreading god knowledge and showing the similarities between Prophets and religions I will help create peace and tolerance on this planet before I go and after that my book will stay till god exists and spread love and unite the religions. smile

              1. Make  Money profile image67
                Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Mo I understand and respect what you are doing.  But we can live in peace and tolerance and spread love without uniting all religions.  Christians would actually condemn themselves in the eyes of God by uniting with all religions.  But that doesn't mean that Hindus and Christians and people from all faiths can't come together to try to alleviate the sufferings of the poor or to foster peace.

                Mike

  48. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago

    Mohit -

    You seem to be under the impression that the christian religion is about loving your fellow man and returning to the source of all things (god) . Nothing could be further from the truth.

    This sort of viewpoint comes from hanging around with unbelievers, pagans, heathens, and more importantly, false christians. These false christians see the positive attributes that Jesus displayed and stupidly assume they need to display and spread those ideas.

    This is rubbish. Jesus was rightfully nailed to a cross for doing this, and as you can see from the responses from the "genuine" christians, any one who suggests such a thing is automatically attacked and accused of misinterpreting the WORD.

    This is,in fact the work of the devil, spread to confuse the WORD.

    Allow me to explain big_smile

    The christian religion is primarily about fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of hell and damnation, fear of other beliefs systems, fear of scientific advances, fear of others who choose to live a different life style. Fear of a jealous and angry god.  Whatever. Fear. Hatred comes a slight second.

    The WORD is FEAR.

    This is how it works.

    You accept Jesus as your savior, or god, or as god's son, depending on the type of christian you are. You go to heaven. Anyone who does not, goes to hell. Easy.

    So easy, in fact that vp's little boy understands it. I bet he can parrot the whole thing word for word and get it right every time. Which means - he is going to heaven. You - are not. Sorry. sad

    This is one of the keys to success with the christian faith. Get 'em young. St Ignatious of Loyola said "Give me the child until he is seven and I will show you the man."

    I know, this quote has been mangled but you get the idea. Many christians will even go so far as to keep their kids from a proper education to make sure they can indoctrinate them. And this is not limited to christians, the Jews do it also, and the Muslims. I have met third generation London-born, never left the country, Jews, that can barely speak English. This is vital - allowing your children out in to the wide world will give them all sorts of false ideas......

    There are a couple of leaps of faith you need to make, and I will explain a few of them.

    This first one is a vital one. Without this, you are lost, and damned of course lol

    Scripture interprets scripture

    This is the ultimate get-out clause. Any time you see anything in the bible that contradicts the idea of a jealous and angry god who will damn you to hell for all eternity, you invoke this clause.

    This allows you to disregard any of these contradictions based on the fact that what this meant to say was what you have found. Easy. Piece of piss. vp's little boy understands this. Nothing difficult to understand in this. Scripture interprets scripture. This also allows you to prove that your bible is infallible, because there are now no contradictions in it.

    Clear?

    Idols

    This one gets a little confusing, but bear with me.

    An idol is only an idol if a heathen is worshiping it.

    Understood? If a christian is worshiping it, it becomes a symbol. Got that?

    Now that wasn't very difficult was it? So when you go to the Vatican for instance and see gold statues like this.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Cathedrapetri%2Bgloria.jpg

    You need to remember that these are not in fact idols, they are symbols.

    Are we getting it yet?

    Any questions, just ask away, I will be glad to help out. lol

    1. mohitmisra profile image54
      mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Yes for others its idols and for themselves its symbols-how absurd.
      At the same time I like Jesus and his sayings,he would not have threatened you trust me on that.He would see you as his extension and couldnt possibly harm you.Like I said before the religion and prophet dont become bad because some interpret them wrongly. :)You are the son of god just like Jesus.It is not  important what religion you follow ,whats important is to be nice. smile

  49. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago

    allshookup -

    Sorry - didn't mean to blind you with that picture. You are correct, the statue in question is indeed in some sort of church.

    It is "Gloria" upon the "Cathedra Petri" in Saint Peter's Basilica.

    Saint Peter's Basilica is in the Vatican city.

    The Vatican city is in Rome.

    Rome is in Italy.

    Italy is in southern Europe.

    Europe is approximately 4-5,000 miles east of you depending on where you are exactly. .

    There is a slight connection between the Vatican city and the Roman Catholic Church, but things are a little political so....

    And it is beautiful in the flesh, so to speak.

    Hope that helps big_smile

  50. knolyourself profile image61
    knolyourselfposted 8 years ago

    Personally when I was in particularly Spain, got so sick of this sadistic christ on the cross, and blood everywhere you go;
    definitely an idol.

 
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