Predestination

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   josh3418posted 12 years ago

   Is the idea of divine election supported in the Bible?

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      A quick search shows "predestination" occurs four times in the bible and only in two of Paul's letters.
      
      In Romans 8 he states "those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters."
      
      God foreknew everybody therefore I read that everyone was predestined to be conformed to the image of his son. The fact that some choose not to is another matter.
      
      He also talks about it in Ephesians 1, but whilst he uses "us" he does not explicitly state who the "us" are. I can read this "us" to mean everybody and Ephesians still makes sense.
      
      If we take predestination to mean that God only planned to save 98% of the population, then God contradicts Himself and Jesus' sacrifice was pretty poor value.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Oh. Well I've obviously misunderstood the question. I didn't realize this was about salvation. That's a nasty little concept, if they don't see it how you do.

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            Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Ok I assumed that the OP was about salvation because Calvanism is all about the idea that God only predestined some for salvation and the rest of humanity is screwed. I've heard plenty of other Christians talk about predestination as if it refers to God knowing who I'll become Christians and who will not. Yes I think that in this case it is a nasty little concept.

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      Civil War Bobposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Let's see, Josh...Jesus mentions "the elect" in Matthew 24:22 in regards to the shortening of the Tribulation, Paul does a whole chapter on it in Ephesians 1, deals with double predestination in Romans 9:14-26, and as Rina Pinto mentions, talks about it in Romans 8:28-29.  I believe you got on to my way of thinking in "Growing TULIPS in a Bull Chip Cookie World" so I need not refer you to that.  Grace and peace, Bro!

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         josh3418posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         CWB I all ready know the answer,   I was just asking to see others opinions.

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            Civil War Bobposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Sorta figgered that, Suhn! 

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   Esenbeeposted 12 years ago

   From what I remember reading in the Bible, divine selection is not true...of course I have to go back and study to make sure. Predestination is not apart of how God operates. He is fair...he gives everyone the same opportunity to get to know him and to develop a relationship with him.
   
   I've heard a pastor minister on predestination and he had cited many points from the Bible. The minister said that God only predestined those who have chosen to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. In other words, if you become a follower of Christ, God has set before you a life of freedom, peace, true love, perfect health, etc. But those things only activate if you choose to accept Jesus in your life and choose to live a Godly lifestyle. I hope this makes sense.

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   Divine election has plenty of Biblical examples. Mostly OT, but it is there.

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   Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

   I was thinking about things along those same lines. I realize that there is a big disconnect between you and I and others who have fallen into the darkness of non-belief. The fact is, is that, yes, I do belief in a higher authority, a consciousness beyond what we humans are, but, what some fail to recognize is that I have rejected western christianity, and follow a different philosophy. Ultimately, I see little difference between them and the atheists. DH, Is all you see in the bible a worthless book? In discussions on where morals come from...all morals come from a higher authority...a priest, a king, a dictator, a president, congress or parliament. People must be legislated to be fair and good to each other. Just a fact of human nature. The christians don't understand the one person that they are supposed to be all about...Jesus. If they did, then they would leave the churches and lock the doors behind them.

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      Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Morals do NOT come from "higher authority...a priest, a king, a dictator, a president, congress or parliament." Laws come from these authorities. The laws may or may not be moral. For instance if a law is passed allowing abortion does that make abortion moral to you? We get our moral codes from a few places, mainly parents and piers and ultimately within.

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         josh3418posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Interesting insight about the origin of morals.

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   kessposted 12 years ago

   Predestination is not limited to the bible and salvation, it is the everyday way of life...
   
   For example was the post predestinaged along with the resppnses...the answer can only be yes.
   
   What about free will? Your will is bound up in predestination...you wrestle with the fact that you think you have an option and eventually do what is already predestined.
   
   So how does work with salvation? Did the Christman lie when he said he died to save all?...
   
   Salvation is an ongoing process that never ends....
   Just as all is not a finite amount.
   
   But for this earth age there is a finite amount that are predestined. So when this number is allocated the age closes and another one begins....continuing the work of salvation.
   
   Now it is the predestined ones, whose purpose will be the one of Christ...that is going into death and retrieving those of Life.

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   Rina Pintoposted 12 years ago

   The below Scripture is indeed supported in the Holy Bible.
   Romans 8:29-30
   29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
   
   30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      God foreknew everyone, thus everyone is predestined.

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         Castlepalomaposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I predestined myself by work ethic an love
         
         Now some of you, go back to sleep, someone will be doing your thinking for you.

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   Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago

   According to mathematics, everything you do was predictable from the moment of the Big Bang.

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   Kathryn LJposted 12 years ago

   I could be wrong but I thought Jesus and John the Baptist were foretold, which would kind of indicate that their lives were predestined.  Sure, they had free will but still ended up doing what they were sent here for anyway.  Ouch, my head hurts now, I should stick to the 'fluff' threads.

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