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Atheists aren't perfect

  1. profile image59
    nonto21posted 5 years ago

    Neither are theists and there's no perfect proof of God, just heresay and prosthelitizing. We may make the occasional foible but at least we can argue our point in a decisive manner. Atheists tend to know more about the bible than christians. Why?

    Because christians go by what they are told and they cherry pick form their debates. They ignore one form of information and support the other but they rarely put them together.

    I admit that I don't know everything. What's God's excuse? If God knew what we were going to do, then why is there no mention of cell phones and cars?

    You can't claim perfect knowledge, if you can't demonstrate it in a controlled environment, with controls and conflicting points of view.

    As I said once before. One should be familiar with both sides of the argument or there's nothing to support the argument.

    1. pennyofheaven profile image79
      pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      If I were looking, (and I'm not) it would be a hard road to hoe to to find anyone that is perfect no matter what they believe. Perhaps that is because we can only define perfect from our own parameters of perception? An ideal that is created by a mind that see's opposites rather than seeing what is.

      1. profile image59
        nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

        Duality can serve to further confuse the issue. I don't contend that there is no God, only that I don't believe it myself and that there's no evidence for it. I can say there is but then, I'm just talking and none of it makes sense.

        1. pennyofheaven profile image79
          pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

          And that is just how you see it for the moment. Imperfect view will be a dualistic view. Perfect will be a non-dualistic view. What it is it what it is for the moment, no more no less.

          1. profile image59
            nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

            True.

            But as percieving creatures, when something is out of our scope of understanding, our brains create dichotomies and dualisms. Probably so we have something to measure it against.

            1. pennyofheaven profile image79
              pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

              Understanding how I breathe is beyond my scope of intellectual understanding but I experience breathing therefore it is. I do not need to know how it works I just accept that it does. When it no longer works it would matter little whether I knew how or why it worked. Sometimes we place too much emphasis in knowledge rather than experience. It is through experience though that much knowledge is gained. Both useful.

              1. profile image59
                nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Most people don't equate breathing with anything, unless they have a reason to. Meditation requires one to be mindful of breathing, but not how it works. Athletes on the otherhand, must be aware of their breathing and why.

                But it's not about knowledge or experience or any of these things. It's about seeking truth, whether realistic or not. What is true for you, most certainly equates to a lie for someone else. So, I can't say either way. I can say that I'm not lying or being misleading but, how do I know?

                1. pennyofheaven profile image79
                  pennyofheavenposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  So in order to be seeking truth we first must need a reason to. If we accept 'what is' there would be no seeking. Brings to mind the Taoist verse

                  Without going out the door, know the world
                  Without peering out the window, see the Heavenly Tao
                  The further one goes
                  The less one knows

                  Therefore the sage
                  Knows without going
                  Names without seeing
                  Achieves without striving

                  http://www.taoism.net/

                  1. profile image59
                    nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    +1

    2. Claire Evans profile image88
      Claire Evansposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      What do you mean by, "If God knew what we were going to do, then why is there no mention of cellphones and cars?"? Do you mean in the Bible and other religious texts? Why would they mention those things since they had no idea what it was and why would God tell them about it? It would mean nothing to them. 

      John of Patmos had a hard time describing what he saw in Revelation.  He described locusts as having women's hair.  That probably was a helicopter.

  2. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 5 years ago

    I notice atheists cherry pick too. I suppose, when belief is so strong, it's impossible to avoid it. You do realize the only discernible difference between a devout theist and a devout atheist is one has an a in their name?

    1. profile image59
      nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Except the whole believing in God thing.

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        You are still driven by belief.

        1. profile image59
          nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I'm not a nihilist, so yes I have beliefs. None of which involve a God.

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            Sure they do. Your entire argument centers around God. Everywhere you look, you remind yourself that you can't see God. Every bit of information you process, you remind yourself that it doesn't involve God.

            You are as eaten up with the concept as is the most devout theist.

            1. profile image59
              nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              I'm pointing out the fallacy of a God/god, whatever. Did you know, most atheist started out christian? Do you know why?

              Because the real world conflicts too much with the belief of it. I can only truly experience the world before me. What else is there, other than what one is told to believe?

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                Yeh. I've noticed most atheists started out as evangelicals. Just because expectations of what a God should be didn't pan out doesn't mean one doesn't exist. It means former theists were wrong. I suppose, they expected intervention? God to validate their belief?

                When that didn't happen I guess they expect other people to validate their new belief, so they proselytize. I don't get it.

                1. profile image59
                  nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  How do you know if your christianity is right? How can you be right at all, especially on this subject?

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    Why would you assume I'm Christian?

                2. nightwork4 profile image61
                  nightwork4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

                  i'm 48 years old, went to church as a kid and i can honestly say i never believed in god. it used to freak me out a bit when the minister would talk about this loving god or about heaven and all that other stuff. atheissm isn't about belief or faith or any such thing though that seems to be how believers try to make it sound. it's about acceptance of reality. it's about using your own mind without letting others guide you in things that aren't real. it's about being strong enough to know that the things in your life, whether good or bad are all changeable by YOU.see, christians love to say we have a belief system because it makes it easier to stomach their beliefs. it's not a belief we have in any shape or form, it's reality.

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm not theistic or an atheist. I'm agnostic and, from where I'm standing, you all have a belief system. Some imagine there is more to  reality and others insist what we know is all there is to know.

                    You all have your reasons for jumping the gun, I'm sure. I see it as ego coupled with insecurity. Maybe, one day, one of you from either side will find a convincing argument that doesn't rely on personal beliefs and emotions.

    2. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Emile R. "Atheists cherry pick, too." I find that a fascinating statement. How do we cherry pick???? Please can you give me an example. I do admit that I tend not to argue with religuous people unless they try to convert me. then I just say whatever I can to get out of there. That said, I really had no idea that other atheists cherry picked. Where exactly, and how???

      I mean, when cherry picking from the bible, it's very easy. One can use any verse to prove anything. However, what book do atheists use to cherry pick from?

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        When you do it, if I'm around, I'll point it out.  It's a little difficult to give examples without being in the middle of the specific conversation where the cherry picking is happening.

        In a conversation on religion and spirituality, everyone cherry picks. It's simply that atheists and theists tend to insist their cherry picked 'facts' are really facts and the only information anyone dare accept as pertinent.

        1. profile image59
          nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I was mentioning cherry picking, not based on the bible. I mentioned cherry picking, as it pertains to the debate. Theists cherry pick what we say and try to use it against us. We cherry pick the bible, to point how it doesn't jive for us.

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

            I wasn't taking about cherry picking from the Bible only. Why would you assume that was what I meant? This is a prime example of what I meant by the fact that some atheists try to see God everywhere they look.

            1. nightwork4 profile image61
              nightwork4posted 5 years ago in reply to this

              no they don't. that's the whole point. i never say well your god caused this or that. i will say that if god was real then why is this happening but to say we look for god everywhere is absurd.

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 5 years ago in reply to this

                It may be absurd for the atheist comfortable in their own skin and secure in their knowledge. It isn't for atheists who petulantly insist on proof of God at every turn. Why do they worry about it so much?

  3. denisevirostek profile image69
    denisevirostekposted 5 years ago

    I think this is a well thought out post, despite having my own sets of beliefs.  Good stuff.

    1. profile image59
      nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

      Thank you. I'm a comedian, all I do is think.

      1. denisevirostek profile image69
        denisevirostekposted 5 years ago in reply to this

        haha. Excellent!

        1. profile image59
          nonto21posted 5 years ago in reply to this

          I'm not naturally funny though, so I actually have to write my jokes.

 
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