At my Wits End.....HELP!!!

1. 59

   Stimpposted 14 years ago

   I am a person in a relationship with a man with two children.  I have non of my own.  Apparently, when the girls go home their BM (bio mother...although, BOWL MOVEMENT fits better) interrogates them endlessly.  She grasps onto whatever they say and uses that again Joe (made up name) and keeps the girls from coming over.  She has even gone to the extent of acting like she is one of the girls and answering his texts to their phone.  At any rate, she has gotten to the point where she intercepts ALL communication between them at all.  They have 50/50 custody.
   
   She sends me texts calling me a c@nt and othe vile things because I put my foot down and indicate that they are not the rule makers in my house....like they don't want us to even have a glass of beer or wine when they ARE NOT HERE.  Joe does everything a good father should....takes 'em to softball (which their BM has indicated she won't take a part of), me giving horse riding lessons to the other, etc.  AND they just show up 3-4 weeks later (after they feel their dad had "paid" enough for having that one beer)and expect all should be the same....like their rooms should be intact (they each have a room despite MY better judgement....I feel you want to act like a guest, then you are a guest).. whenever they want something their mom WON'T provide, then it's dad's house they go to.
   
   I am so alienated by them, I'm not sure how to console Joe or even how to react to them when they come back. If they were mine, they'd be getting big 'ole time spankings....but of course that's not possible.  At this point I can't even talk to them or it gets back to their mom and then the hell breaks loose.
   
   Any advise.....BTW girls at 9 & 10.....as if they have a say in our environment.

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2. 0

   lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago

   This is a toxic relationship and while he feels he needs to give a little you are the one who is going to suffer in the long run. I have been there and the mother is practicing parent alienation syndrome which is very common read up on it if you've never heard about it.
   
   She needs counseling on how to work the relationship between all of you and so does he. Keep a record of everything in case you land back in court. We did and just prior to doing so we found out that the boys mother and bf were molesting the boys while they were there in their home on our off weeks.
   
   Not saying that is the issue but you never know she just might be projecting because she is guilty of something.
   
   Take it very slow with the relationship if he never mans up with the kids or her you are in for a long ride of being taken advantage of and disrespected. You need to decide if that is how you want to spend your life and talk to him about it now before it gets any worse.

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   1. 59

      Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I will do some research into the parent alienation syndrome which I've never heard of.  Thanks for the input.  She has some serious psychological issues and WILL NOT go to counseling.  I have suggested that to Joe so that he can find a way to deal with that alienation on his own without blaming himself.  I think she is so like "oh my BABIES...." but they are not babies any longer and she is losing control.
      
      At any rate, I bought this home myself with the idea that there would be a family of 4 here.  Well, I got two bedrooms and a bathroom downstairs and I want to reclaim one of the rooms so Joe will have a home office.....but they told their mom that and all hell broke lose....although she slept with  both of them in one bed until about a year ago (remember they are 9 & 10) and now provides one bedroom for them to share.....yet, I AM supposed to provide one for each.  They are emotionally incapable of sleeping alone so one room is never used.  But I'm the bast@ard for wanting to reclaim it.  i'm about to say fk-it....deal with it ladies cuz it is what it is.  Not a punishment but you've made decisions and based on those decisions, I'm making my own.  Like reclaiming the control in my home.  They have virtually destroyed our family unit....no, they HAVE destroyed it.  They are old enough to know what sets their mom off and they feel as if "tattling" on us because everything wasn't "Disney Dad" all weekend....then they should feed off that as if their BM has any say here.  Very frustrating.  Thanks for your input.  I will definitely look into that cuz I've never heard of that before.

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3. 59

   Stimpposted 14 years ago

   For YOU who wondering why I felt there was an 8 minute time limit on the response.  No, I don't feel that way, and I noticed you deleted your comment.  I just find it curious how a bikini clad beauty gets more input on what finger nail polish they should wear tomorrow over something that actually holds some REAL life issues.  So, whatever.....Thanks for your consideration and your thought full criticism.....I am very frustrated and it helped alot....again, thanks.

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      KCC Big Countryposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I deleted mine because you deleted yours.  I was considering writing a response, but gave up when you decided time was up.  Glad someone offered help.  Good luck to you.

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      1. 59

         Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I felt I was being unfair and harsh because of my frustration.  If you have some thoughtful advise, I sincerely would appreciate it.  Because I am not bio-parent, for obvious reasons, I haven't a clue what unconditional love is as far as a child goes.  My M.O. is to "Walk" when someone crosses me to the level these children have.  I love my pets more than anything, because they don't do sht like that.  Anyway, I welcome your input, I really do.   Please don't hold back.

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4. 59

   Stimpposted 14 years ago

   Thanks Lynne for stearing me in a direction I had not known.  I truly do appreciate it.....really I do.  I'm lost.

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5. 63

   SandyMcCollumposted 14 years ago

   Wow, I can feel your frustration. You need to set some boundaries for the kids, a little tough love is needed, I think. But, that's just mho, good luck!

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   1. 59

      Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Like I said, I do that and Joe gets "punished" for my words or behavior.  Because I put them in thier place....tell them Joe and I are the adults and WE and WE alone will make the decisions here.....the one 9 year old screamed at me "don't we have a say...."  I said "you don't even have a say as to the flavor of juice boxes I bring into my home."  I said I was sad for them that they were put into a position everytime they went back with her that they had to "come up with" stuff that went wrong in order to please another person.  I went on to say that I would never do that....EVER....because I DON'T CARE what they do or what she does when they are there.  They don't get we have two homes.....one in which SHE has no control.  Like if she "scolds" us as well, we will comply with the demands of the children.  Then, they accuse Joe of NOT sticking up for them.  WTF?  STick up for them....he and I are a team.

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6. 0

   lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago

   I really feel for your situation because it sounds so similar to my own a few years ago. You didn't say whether you and this man were married or not. It really doesn't matter one way or the other but if he is allowing the girls to disrespect you in the home you are providing for them all then there are serious issues and I would seriosly think long and hard before I took the marriage step with this man.
   
   Remember you have 9 more years before the girls will be legal so as long as it is your home that their father shares with you it is time to lay down the law. The ex has no say so and it isn't against any law for the girls to have to share a room.
   
   Parent alienations syndrome is where one parent makes it near impossible for the children to understand that the other parent really isn't the bad guy. The parent who is practicing this will use any means possible at their disposal to alienate the children from the father or mother. Their behavior is brought up time and time again to the children thus making them think that it is better to not visit than to visit. They make it seem to the children that the other parents home is an unsafe environ for the children and they begin to fear going to see the other parent. It is a sick sick game that is being played out.
   
   I had to remove myself from the situation as my health took a drastic hit because of the stress I was constantly under. Things got so bad here that I actually became a recluse totally afraid to go out of my home for fear that I would be attacked. Yes this happened more than once and once in my own yard.
   
   I hope that things get better for you soon. Document everything. If he won't then you do it. Parents who use the parent alienation usually will take you back to court at some point and try to prove just how unfit you are and if he wants to avoid a long battle it is best to document. Don't let the children know or her know that you are doing this. We actually had to put a recording device on the phone at one point and those tapes were a life saver as there were threats to do bodily harm to both me and my husband.
   
   As I said we ended our relationship due to my health issues and his lack of control when it came to being a wanderer, but not before my health suffered greatly. Take very good care of yourself and do take back the control of your home.

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   1. 59

      Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      OMG....it's as if you are reliving my life here.  Difference is that Joe is very much on my side and is very vocal about that to them.  While he reminds them that he loves them, etc.....he is consistent in his commitment to me (we are engaged). 
      
      I really have a full day of research tomorrow into what you've described....LOL...thanks for that.
      
      I was married previously where the children ruled the roost....and now he and his first wife are back together...I believe so he could continue or save his relationship with his manipulative kids.  Neither Joe nor I are interested in that.  He's been hurt enough by the 3 of them that he's ready to walk.  I gotta tell ya, times (like today for instance) are so fun and stress free when the idea of them coming over in a few hours isn't looming above us.  He has gotten to the point where he's actually admitted that he DREADS Sunday's around noon....because he know at 5:15 on onslaught of abuse from her will begin.  What is that about.  You shouldn't have to dread your children coming over or leaving ( I never dread them leaving....LOL..)....Anyway...

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7. 85

   KCC Big Countryposted 14 years ago

   I am sure it is horribly frustrating for you. Listen to Lynne, she gives excellent advice.  Hang in there.

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      lynnechandlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Aw thanks KCC I appreciate this, just really hard for me to see another person going through what nearly killed me so I'm being brutally honest an open with my own situation.

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   2. 59

      Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks, KCC....I believe you are right.  I think there are a lot more out there than anyone can imagine that feel like I, but it's not socially acceptable to say you really don't like a particular child for whatever reason.....

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8. 59

   Stimpposted 14 years ago

   BTW:  I have made it VERY clear that I know thier games and I ain't a player....it is what it is.  I think they despise that.  They will start the "croc tears" and I'll say "ya know what....that may work on others but the croc tears don't work on me. There's no crying here....we are only have a discussion".  I never yell, raise my voice, threaten or otherwise.....I just tell it like it is and last time it was "I'm not playin' the games, you participate in THIS family or lose your privs....that's it. Period. End of story."  Then the mom sends me a text saying what a sick c#nt I am.  Really?  I'm about to have a birthday cake that says "Happy Birthday, C#unt" written on it for my birthday....I've been called that so much in the last month.....LOL>  Maybe you all could put together a c#nt fund for that.  How 'bout it??  It could be a three layer cake with lactose free frosting.  It'll be phenominal.

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9. 0

   lynnechandlerposted 14 years ago

   I'm glad to hear he is in your corner. Make sure he reads up on this too. It really will open your eyes as to what she is doing. The psychological ramifications is harmful to the girls as its supposed to work where you can all come together peacefully with a good cohesive working relationship. When one parent is totally sabotaging the other that cohesiveness will never happen and the girls will suffer in self esteem and trust issues. They may act out but the boys finally got it when I put my foot down unfortunately their father never came around to supporting me and they started seeing this as a way to keep the rift going between us.
   
   They also picked up a lot on the mothers behavior and would do some really incredible things here to totally blow me out of the water. Case in point if they didn't like the fact that we were having veggies with dinner or whatever and I wouldn't fix more than one meal at dinner time the youngest would totally disrupt dinner by making himself puke in his plate. This continued until the day they moved out. I so didn't grow up that way and never experienced anything like it with my own children so it really threw me for a loop as to how to handle that one. Obviously it didn't get handled cause he was still doing it when they left.
   
   Good luck with the research and if you need anything feel free to email me.

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   1. 59

      Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks, Lynne, I may take you up on that.  The one girl is so picky, she won't eat a regular meal(and if she doesn't get what SHE wants....she HAS called her aunt to BRING HER FOOD because we have "none" AT ALL for them to eat), it has to be hot dogs or chicken fingers.  I'm like "I'm not running a short order kitchen here....eat what we've got or get the hell off the table.  Period.  End of story."  Then again, I'm the c#nt.  Whatever.  I'm glad to hear I'm not alone.  Thanks.

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10. 67

    alternate poetposted 14 years ago

    You are clearly very frustrated and angry with this situation - and I note that some advice pointed the finger at your partner.  They are his kids, you are just an involved onlooker in many ways; and of course you get to sit in the middle and see the bad on both sides etc. Any divorced father can tell you that the kids are a huge and difficult issue, even if the divorce is amicable, if not then it is a hundred times worse.  My advice would be to take yourself out of the emotional loop as much as you can and let him deal with it - support him in what he is doing with help and compassion.

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11. 61

    Lisa HWposted 14 years ago

    Stimp, I think Joe has to deal with the stuff she's doing that he thinks is inappropriate by contacting his lawyer and letting a moderator or the judge tell the mother what she can and can't do. 
    
    She's not someone you should have to deal with.
    
    As far as the house goes, if he's got 50/50 custody it's up to him to make sure the kids have a decent, clean, place to sleep; but if they have to share a room that's not her business - and again, I think a court person would tell her that.
    
    Another suggestion might be that you and "Joe" go to a counselor together, and get some tips on how to deal with the situation (before it gets any worse).
    
    If the issues were to end up back at court, if she's being really bizarre (and won't knock it off), she may run the risk of losing her part of the custody.  If nobody has anything "on" your husband and you then Joe doesn't have anything to worry about as far as losing his part of the custody goes. 
    
    As far as unconditional love goes, I think it's too much for you, or anyone else to expect to love the children that way (at least not until you've had a chance to build a long, nice, relationship with them and have any love occur as a natural result.  To me, if you're kind and respectful to them; and if they're respectful to you, that may be all anyone can really expect right now.  I think you have every right to set the rules of the house (as far as what's done in the house and what isn't).  I think "Joe" is the one who has to be responsible for his own kids (at least right now).   I don't think you should have to deal with mother at all, and if she makes herself a problem for you I think Joe needs to step up to the plate and iron it out.
    
    I'm not defending the stuff you've said the mother has done at all; but in fairness to her in general (regarding your remark about the girls being babies), most normal mothers will always have some protective instinct when it comes to their children (no matter how old the kids are - 30, 40, whatever).  The mother may have different ideas from you and Joe about what's best for the kids (or she may have absolutely wacky ideas); but mothers generally have, and exercise, an instinct to protect their own kids (like mother cats or bears do).  The mother may be wrong to expect her kids to have their own rooms in your house, but whether or not she's over-stepping her bounds on thinking she should have a say, her seeing them as "her babies" comes from that thing about how mothers will always stand up for their children.
    
    I suppose, if I step back from my immediate reaction to your thread, I can picture how, if the girls (who had not ever had their own room) were really excited about getting their own room in their "father's house"; and how the mother may interpret taking that away from them as very disappointing to them.  If, by any chance, they saw having their own rooms as something good they'd get once their father and you married, maybe she's trying to prevent them from being further disappointed.
    
    I think, though, even giving the mother a shred of "benefit of the doubt", you need someone on your side is this scenario, and it should be Joe (and maybe a counselor - even if that counselor talked to the kids about what's going on). 
    
    I don't think you have to let them destroy your family.  They're kids.  If Joe doesn't know how to do this, I think you should establish with them, "Look.  I don't like what's going on here, and we need to dial everything back and start clean, as friends.  We don't have to be real close right now, but we need to stop arguing and fighting.  You respect me, and I'll respect you; and we'll all agree not to talk about things that get us fighting.   Arguments between your father and mother are not my business, and I don't want those arguments stopping us from at least being friends.  If you have an issue to discuss with your father, discuss it with him.  If I have an issue to discuss with him, I'll discuss it with him.  If there are things we disagree about right now we won't be able to work them out if we aren't starting clean and starting as friends, so let's agree to start there - and we'll deal with other issues as they come along."   
    
    If you can do that much the mother won't have any reasonable complaints.  If she harasses you or won't let the kids talk to their father, take her to court.  Since the kids will probably hear about court, tell them it's how adults sometimes have to get some help working out disagreements.  Tell them it's nothing personal.  It's just what divorce, disagreeing, parents sometimes need to do.
    
    Best wishes.  I don't know if any of this makes any sense, applies to you, or is any help.  It's just that it seems like such a difficult situation, I thought I'd give it a shot.

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       Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks for you input.  Yes, it did make sense and it helped me get back on track with what I've always thought should be the case.....me stepping back and letting him handle stuff.  I can be like a steamroller if I feel things aren't being dealt with.

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12. 59

    Lynda Garyposted 14 years ago

    Stimp, I've coached MANY couples with the exact same issues you and "Joe" are having.
    
    It's complicated, and it's late (for me), so this reply will be brief.  But my services are free, if you're interested.  See my profile.
    
    For starters (and I don't know if someone already asked / said this), it's important to know how long you and Joe have been a committed couple.  Your best choices for how to handle things are 100% contingent on the answer to that question.
    
    I'm concerned, too, that you've said you don't know what unconditional love is.  I've got a hub about unconditional love as it applies to parents, but this type of love extends to romantic relationships, too.  If you don't love Joe unconditionally, you might want to re-think your plan for building a family with him, even if its with his children.
    
    Like I said, it's late and this is brief -- and you've got a complicated issue.  My offer of help, privately, stands.

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       Stimpposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks, I WILL take you up on that offer.

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    Michael Adams1959posted 13 years ago

    Oh man, I have sure been there. Every bit of it. I had to go to court so many times to get my visitation. X would keep the kids away from me all the time. She would tell them I wasn't good for them. She had some serious mental problems. Love your man all you possibly can, support him and his feelings over this matter, let him know that you support him. Stand your ground at home, it is your home. BUT let the little ones know it is their home too. They need that security. They need to know they are accepted in your house. I know it is very hard and it does cause problems. Let them know they do have a place in your home but rules and decisions are made differently there than with their mother. My final verdict was it is better to miss seeing dad than to see mom in jail for contempt. This was 5 times we were in court for her keeping the kids away. Do not let it strain the relationship between you and your "Joe". Plan things to make them feel special, wanted and the attitudes will gradually come around. Love is the key, unconditional love. It is so hard but love those kids with all your heart. If you can't it is only going to ruin your relationship with their dad. Good luck hope you can survive this.  At best they come around gradually at worst the mother draws it out till after they turn 18. BE STRONG for him, if you can't then reconsider what you want in your relationship quickly don't let if linger and get worse. I know how bad it can get. Good Luck

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