If Jesus really did 'give us the bible' then why......

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   kirstenblogposted 13 years ago

   No book of Jesus in the bible?
   We got books from a few of his mates (providing the generally support each other) like Mathew Mark Luke and John, but where is Jesus's 'book of the bible'? It seems a bit of an oversight if Jesus really was 'giving the world the bible'.
   
   To be honest I find it a shame that his mom didn't contribute a book, or Mary Magdalene. Then again we can't have a woman contributing to religion! That would be insane! It's ok tho cause we are good at other things like like knitting cakes and backing doilies
   
   I am not saying that there isn't anything of value in the bible, its the best historical record we have for a man who has inspired so many religions, I just think to say that Jesus gave the world the bible is very misleading (especially for lazy people who are allergic to thinking for themselves).

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      Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I liked the last line, specially the portion mentioned in the brackets.

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      pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      agreed and it applies to all religious books not just bible...

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         kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         agreed, I was raised with the bible so is the obvious choice for me to question.

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            pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            ya of course...

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      watchyaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It's usually said that God gave Man the Bible, not Jesus. Anyway, the Bible was written by Man, and some of them don't believe Jesus even existed.

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      TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hey kirsten: There were many "books" written during the relevant time periods that did not make it into the "canon" although they would have been known to Jesus or written by his contemporaries - I'm not one hundred percent sure, but there may actually be one that's said to have been written by Mary Magdalene. There is also a so-called Gospel of Thomas, as well as some others. Look up Apocrypha and "books taken out of the Bible." You'll find some interesting things that some old guys decided a long time ago that they didn't want people reading (look up "Council of Nicea").
      
      Good luck, and great question.

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         kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I have heard of the book of Thomas actually. As conspiracy theories goes the ones surrounding the bible and more importantly those books that didn't make the cut, it is pretty easy to give some serious consideration to.

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            Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Those other books did not agree in teachings with the 66 books that were chosen by consensus in the early church.  I believe that the Holy Spirit guided the early church to choose those 66 books that were in agreement with each other.  They were written by the prophets (Old Testament) and the apostles (followers of Jesus) or people who wrote down the apostles' knowledge about Jesus. 
            
            Paul, of course, met the risen Jesus on the road to Damascus as he was persecuting Christians and instead became a preacher of the Jesus that he had been persecuting. 
            
            The Catholic church accepts the Apocrypha, books that were written during the 400 years between the two testaments.  Protestants believe that they're interesting history but not written by the prophets and thus not inspired by God.
            
            The Father through Jesus by the Holy Spirit as the one God, I believe, gave us the Bible to reveal himself and to spotlight his rescue plan through Jesus, the God-man.  Other books with other emphases don't fit that plan of God.

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      Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      http://www.gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm
      
      enjoy

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         kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Ohhh cool thx Misha

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         kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Based on what I have read so far, Me Likey!

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            Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I knew you would

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         Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         The gnostic beliefs clash with the Bible's presentation of Jesus Christ in its focus on the 3-in-1 God--Father, Jesus, and Spirit--on Jesus as the God-man whose life, death, and resurrection are the key to God's rescue of believers.  Why do you beleive gnostic ideas?  I'm curious.

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      4. 57

         Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I have now read the Gospel of Mary.  It disagrees with the accepted Gospels by saying that Jesus did not believe in sin, except for adultery in its various forms.  Sin only seems to be outward action there.  You can read the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), and you will notice that Jesus says that inner desires and emotions are just as much sins as outward actions. 
         
         Another way it disagrees with the Bible is that it seems to teach that all nature is connected, including humans.  The Bible clearly says that humans are a special creation in God's image and likeness unlike the rest of creation (Genesis 1). 
         
         As I understand it Gnostic beliefs include the idea that there are many created spiritual entities between God and humans graduating to greater and greater goodness and that Jesus is merely one of those entities.  The Bible, especially Hebrews and Colossians, denies that belief.  The writer to the Hebrews says that Jesus is much greater than the angels as our great High Priest, and Paul in Colossians writes that all of God dwelled in Jesus (Colossians 1:19).   
         
         That's my take on the Gospel of Mary.  I believe that the early church made the right decision to exclude it from the Bible, but that's just my opinion.  You can believe what you want to.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus IS the Word, the Word made flesh that dwelt among man.
      His "autobiography" is written in the hearts of those who Love and worship Him, as well as written in the Bible.
      
      Besides, the Bible tells us that if all the things Jesus did were written down, the whole world might not be able to contain the writings!    And although I'm sure Jesus was perfectly capable of writing anything in any amount that He wanted to,   the point is that us humans can't figure out that much stuff.  Matter of fact, we haven't even figured out the Biblical writings that we DO have! 

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      nikki1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      To read what happened in his time. What all he did. To learn and grow.. I am personally happy we have it. I am also proud of God and Jesus for fighting for us.

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      Richieb799posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      There are Females who contributed to the Bible I think, there is definitely the book of Ruth I know that

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         nikki1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         The bible is written by ordained Ministers. There may have been a female contributing. I'm just glad they created the bible.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The religious establishment existed before Jesus did.
            
            The religious works, which are that of Jesus, are NOT authorized by Jesus himself. His work was incorporated into religious scripture and spawned Christianity, many years after his execution of no crime.
            
            Jesus despised the religious establishment of his time.

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               WizardOfOzposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Amen Cagsil!
               
               Follow in Jesus, down with the Order!

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               Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Why do you believe such things, Cags?  What "religious works"?  Please clarify your statements so that we can discuss your ideas. 
               
               My understanding is that Jesus agreed with the Pharisees on the existence of angels and the resurrection of believers' bodies, but he criticized them for their greed and showy religion.  He totally disagreed with the Sadducees in their rejection of angels and the resurrection and criticized their religious practice and their immorality. 
               
               How can you say that the early church came up with Jesus' virgin birth, perfect life as the God-man, his willing experience of death for believers' rescue, his resurrection from the grave, and his defying the law of gravity to re-enter heaven to rule the universe with the Father?  These events could not have been made up by any human minds; they had to happen as God led the writers to describe them as his eyewitnesses.  How else?

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            getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The bible seems to have been written by "ordained" bigotted misogynist.  I wish the bible had been relegated to the same status as Grimm Fairytales.

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               Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Why do you say that, getitrite?  I'm interested in your reasoning.

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            Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Where did you get the idea that the Bible was written by ordained ministers?  They may have translated the Bible because they know the Hebrew and Greek languages that the early manuscripts are written in, but the actual books of the Bible were written by ordinary people that God made into prophets.  Moses was educated in Egypt, was a shepherd, and became Israel's rescuer; the historical books were written by prophets; the prophet Amos was a farmer; Matthew was a hated tax collector; Peter, James, and John were fishermen--all were weak people that God made into his spokespeople.

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      SirDentposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      One thing you miss. Jesus is the Bible. He is the Word of God. He lived, ate and breathed the Bible.

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         (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Jesus ate bibles?

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         Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Is that what you think it means?

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       Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Who said Jesus gave us the Bible?

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       Neferkaptahposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       The Theosophy of Twt-Mos Djoser
       http://www.theosophyoftwtmosdjoser.com
       
       Iehoshua ben Iose never gave you the Byblos and beside your Jesus is more Greek and the fabrication of the Roman Empire than what is taught and Christianity is more based on the religions of the neteroo of Kemet than its Judean-Christian heritage influence by Zoroaster theology.
       
       Second, in Judean-Christianity and other denominations influenced by men who are afraid of joining with their feminine spiritual side, they are chauvanist in relation to their religions where women as slaves, servants or submissive to their hubands, their creative god is male and has a son.
       
       Really how absurd, that in Judean-Christianity the creative god is a trinity of father, son and holy spirit, creates Adan and then, Eve through him and makes her submissive to him because from where I come from god is Androgynous having both the male and female universal attributes at the genus level and its creatrive laws and Adan "Adam" is both Adan and Chavvah and humanity created and manifested in the divine image, essence, life and intellect of the, god.
       
       The Hebrew texts and religion has an Ancient Egyptian origin because when my relatives came out of ancient Egypt, they came out of Kemet with an African religion and how do I know this then, read, The Theosophy of Twt-Mos Djoser and you will finaly realize who I am, who each one of you are and that you have never being alone and where is the Judean-Christian god because I have always being with you since your infancy!

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          Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks for joining our discussion!  How can you say, Neferkaptah, that Moses' writings and israel's beliefs came from Ancient Egyptian origin?  Moses presents a God who is separate from the universe, whereas the Egyptians worshiped the Nile River and its animal inhabitants as gods which were part of the universe, which equals God as well as Pharoah himself.  Isn't that observation true? 
          
          Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible, often showing the ancesters of the Israelites in a negative light, except for Joseph, whereas Egypt's history and all the other histories of the other nations idealized their ancestors.  The miracles performed to set the Israelites free could never have been dreamed up.  The high morality required of tsrael and the church in the Bible clearly shows that no one could do it perfectly.  The God of the Bible is the only one who accepts his followere freely without their doing anything to deserve it (called grace) and then transforms believers to be more like him, a process to be completed when Jesus.comes.  (For example, God rescued the Israelites even though that whole generation, except for two families, died in the desert because of their unbelief. 
          
          All of these considerations lead me to conclude that God guided the writing of the Bible rather than some humans dreaming him up, especially that he is three Persons in one God.  I don't believe that that teaching is absurd; its presence in the Bible had to come from God, not a human source.  That's what I believe.  You can believe what you want to.  I do invite your response.

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   12. 90

       Pamela99posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       The Bible was written after Jesus was crucified by his disciples.  The words of Jesus and his actions are well documented by the disciples. Much of the life of Jesus is documented by many other historical sources.

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          paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Hi friend Pamela99
          
          A strange sentence; so it were the disciples who crucified Jesus; to make Jesus their god.
          
          May be you wanted to write that Bible was written by disciples after the event of Jesus' Crucifixion.
          
          But the disciples who wrote Bible were not eyewitnesses of the event; they wrote it from hearsay. In fact they were not even believers of Jesus as they deserted him as soon as he needed them; they just fled away.They should not be truted for what they wrote.
          
          Thanks
          
          I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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             oceansnsunsetsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I didn't take it that way at all, there is pause, that they wrote it, after he was crucified. 
             
             Yes it was the Jewish religious leaders that condemned him, and the Romans that carried it out. 
             
             It was clear to me, sorry it was misunderstood by others.  I never heard of anyone even atheists alluding that it was the disciples... They were discouraged for a time after too, scattered, etc.  They came around after seeing him resurrected just as he said.  They knew they would have to pay for that very likely, but they were more convinced than ever, and died for what they saw. 
             People don't die for what they know is a lie, but have done so for the truth they know.

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             Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Hi, paarsurrey.  Why do you make those statements?  I know that there's a discussion among Muslims whether the early church distorted their Scriptures or whether Christians just misinterpret their Bible.  Either way how is it possible for Christians to change their Scriptures to describe a three-Person-in-one God, Jesus as fully God and fully man, a rescue plan that begins with Jesus coming from heaven to be born of the virgin Mary, to live as the God-man perfectly, as man to die actually on the cross as the Gospel writer the Apostle John witnessed his death and wrote about the Roman soldier stabbing Jesus' body to make sure he was dead (out came water and blood, demonstrating that he was dead), as God to rise from the dead permanently as witnessed by many people, and to re-enter heaven to rule the universe with the first Person of God, and sending the third Person of the one God to create new life in believers. 
             
             No one could have dreamed or thought up those events, especially to hold on to their testimonies in the face of severe persecution from all parts of the Roman society.  God had to guide those writers to describe that which they also experienced so that they risked imprisonment and death and never denied their experiences with Jesus. 
             
             It's up to you what you believe, but it's just that, belief. 
             
             Amen to you, oceansnsunsets.

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                Deaconessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                In response to, "Either way how is it possible for Christians to change their Scriptures to describe a three-Person-in-one God"
                
                I'm sorry but... this indeed was done. Verse 1 John 5:7, which is the verse that the church uses to validate the trinity, is non-existent in Greek manuscripts that this gospel was translated from.
                
                There are many mistranslations of the original manuscripts, but this is the most blatant one.
                
                Psychological studies tell us that when people are confronted with "facts" that contradicts their beliefs, they still don't budge, and it only serves to reinforce their clinging to the belief harder to hold to them... so I am probably telling you this in vain.
                
                I have even heard Christians say that the text did at one time exist in the Greek manuscripts, but that it was magically erased by the devil... when they should have been asking themselves "why" would the church do this?

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          tonymac04posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I thought Jesus was crucified by the Romans, not his disciples?

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             oceansnsunsetsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             She said it was written by the disciples.  She didn't say the disciples crucified him.  People will try to confuse, don't let them.  You are right tonymac, it was the Romans that carried it out, and killed Jesus instead of Barabbas even though he was offered to them, so Jesus could go. They wanted blood...

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          (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

          How many decades after the so-called crucifixion did those documents come to fruition?
          
          
          
          Where? The only source is the bible.

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             Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Hi, Q.  The books of the New Testament were written from two to four decades after Jesus' death because Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in A.D. 70 and those documents had to have been before that tragic event.  Jesus died in about A.D. 30.  John witnessed Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection and testified to those events so consistently that he was persecuted by the Jews and exiled by the Romans to the Isle of Patmos, a Roman penal colony in the Aegean Sea.  What better witness could you get of the historicity of those events?

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       paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Hi friend kirstenblog
       
       There is no book of Jesus; as Jesus was a follower of Moses and he never wrote a book; it is as simple as that. The Gospels are unauthorized Books about Jesus; that is why they have so many contradictions, Jesus neither instructed any of the scribes to write a book nor a dictated to any of them.
       
       Thanks
       
       I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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          earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I agree. The bible is full of threats made by men ............ Just like the Quoran.

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             paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Hi friend earnestshub
             
             I don't agree with you. There are no threats in Quran; what has been mentioned in Quran will just happen. You have to prove from the Quran.
             
             Thanks
             
             I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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   TLMinutposted 13 years ago

   Who said Jesus gave us the bible? It was written long before he lived! As for the NT, it was written after he was dead (maybe some were writing while he taught though, who knows? It would make sense.) For Jesus, the scriptures were already written.

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      Rishy Richposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Guess what? Your strongest source behind this claim is - the "Bible" again...& Thats really funny

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         TLMinutposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I don't know what you mean, what claim? That the bible was written before Jesus was born? And that the other NT books were written later? That's a matter for archaeology, isn't it?

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         Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Emm, it wasn't called bible back then. And it isn't "A" book, it is many pieces of history, one liner proverbs, poetry and a song book all in one. Added to those collections are correspondences between believers. So anyone who reads it must be some sort of believer in it or desire to be. Why read Shakespeare or an Atheists for Dummies if you don't like either? So something in that collection moves you to read it, more than just curiosity.

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            oceansnsunsetsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, Jesus referred to the scriptures, as the Law and the Prophets..

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      Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus didn't write it, but I believe that the Father through Jesus by the Holy Spirit's power inspired many writers to write the truth in various kinds of writing with their individual abilities.  What he revealed had to come from him, not from humans (see my other responses).  Only in that way did Jesus give us the Scriptures with his Father and the Spirit as the one God.  That's what I believe on the basis of the Bible.  You can believe whatever you want to.

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   Jeramiposted 13 years ago

   I am just think out loud here so I am quite sure that I am going to say something that will be disputed.
     I don't think that Jesus wanted a book to educate us as to who he is.
   
      Imagine having children...  Would you rather have a relationship with them or would you write a book for someone else to give to them, that your children might know who you are?
   
      Especially when they keep the book and read out of it those things that they want your children to know? 
     Especially when they interpret what you wrote as if it means something that you did not say?
   
      """BUT"""... If you did write the book ?
     You would want ""very much"" for your children to be the  ones reading it and coming to their own conclusions as to    who you are !!!!!

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      kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      What you say seems spot on to me.
      
      I think at the end of the day the important challenges of life are not easy, no one book when read means your spiritually speaking 'safe', like everything else in life you gotta work for it if you want it

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         ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         there are ways to court blessings...

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         pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         kirstenblog , u r spot on...

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         Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I often have difficulty speaking what I am thinking cause life seems to be one great big oximoron.
           When looking back through my life .. my greatest difficulties were getting over my bad decisions.
           And some of my greatest treasures were produced out of those bad decisions.
         
         quote=kirstenblog...  like everything else in life you gotta work for it if you want it
         =======
           That is true   yet the best things in life are free??
         
           And like Grandpa said... "Ya gotta want something first or ya aint ever goinna get it, unless it is something that some one else wants you to have in which case you probalby don't need it"
         ... and yet life is an oximoron remember? 
         Some of our greatest treasures are those things that were given to us. such as Love, peace of mind, and grace and the list goes on. 
            The hardest thing that I have ever done involved making up mind as to those choices that I have had to make.
            Every single one was important and yet not.

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            kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            The great thing is that sometimes work does not feel like work. I work every day to be a good person with integrity and have been doing so for so long that it does not feel like work

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               Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Sounds like you are finding out who you are. I think when we become at peace with ourselves the easier it is to be a good person.

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         Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hi, kirstenblog!  The point of the Bible, I believe, is that we can't ever be good enough in our own imperfect effort to gain a perfect God's approval.  How can imperfect people be accepted by a perfect God, the 3-in-1 God of the Bible?  They can't, because nobody's perfect. 
         
         However, God planned to rescue us from our imperfection by sending Jesus to be perfect in our place and to transfer his perfection to us in God the Judge's eyes.  Because Jesus died a criminal's death when he had no imperfection, God condemned his own Son as the head of all believers in him so that we receive God's not-guilty verdict and lose our death penalty.  Then, Jesus, the God-man, rose from the dead to give us faith and new life to live like Jesus in his resurrection power, not in our imperfect strength.  These events distinguish Christian, biblical belief from all other self-help beliefs.  All we have to do is accept Jesus' rescue by way of what he did, and he will begin the transformation that lasts a lifetime. 
         
         You can believe as you wish, but that's what I believe.

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   ceciliabeltranposted 13 years ago

   crazy topic

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   optimus grimlockposted 13 years ago

   well some of the books of the bible were never found, so you never know!

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      Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      How do you know that some of the books were never found, if they weren't found?  Just curious.  I believe that what's in the 66 books of the Bible is enough for us to have a personal relationship with the 3-in-1 God revealed there (read the Gospel of John to understand more about the three-Pereon-in-one God).

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   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   If Jesus really did 'give us the bible' then why......
   
   Hi friends
   
   Jesus never wrote anything himself or dictated to anyone or authorized anyone to write Bible for him. The Bible is an unauthorized book written without express permission of Jesus; so he never gave us any Bible.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      crazy post

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         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         "Jesus never wrote anything himself or dictated to anyone or authorized anyone to write Bible for him. The Bible is an unauthorized book written without express permission of Jesus; so he never gave us any Bible."
         
         Hi friend ceciliabeltran
         
         I don't agree with you. The scribes in fact had no express permission to write anything on behalf of Jesus; specially when they had deserted Jesus and ran away from the scene of the Cross; they had absolutely no moral grounds to write any accounts about the life of Jesus or about Jesus' teachings; they wrote simply from hearsay and they were untruthful. Jesus and Mary were truthful persons.
         
         I only express my faith with reasons; others could freely bring out their reasons as they believe; absolutely no compulsion.
         
         Thanks
         
         I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I believe that the first Person of God gave us the Bible through the second Person, Jesus, by the power of the Holy Spirit using human writers with their varied abilities but still guiding them to write what that one God wanted to reveal.  How else could the things said in the Bible get there?  No humans could have dreamed or thought them up.  I believe these things; you don't have to, Ahmadi.

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      wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The bible is the inspired word of God. Jesus is the One that put life to the inspired word of God. His pure spirit was placed in Him by His Heavenly Father. He is who His Father was talking about. The spirit is the life, not the body. Be prepared, that same spirit is returning soon.

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         Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         incorrect, all script is given BY inspiration OF Him, -not His complete inspired words. Big difference. Someone needs edification. He is alive -sitting at the right hand of the Father - according to the text. You talk of Y`shua and the Spirit as if knowing them -as they are and they see you -but in reality you don't know either. Another cloud without water -a sorcerer pretending to have His power and deceiving the weak into religion.

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      Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I thought that Muslims honor the previous Scriptures.  Now, I hear you saying that the Bible was not authorized.  The Qur'an seems to honor the Bible as from God, but it's my understanding that many Muslims believe that Christians misinterpret the Bible, and others believe that Christians changed the Scriptures to fit their own ends.  Which do you believe, Ahmadi? 
      
      I believe that the early church could not have changed the Scriptures of the New Testament to make it impossible for Christians to follow the commands completely.  For example, Jesus said that lust=adultery, anger=murder, that we are love our enemies, and that we are to be perfect as our Father is perfect.  Paul called us to rejoice, pray, and be thankful all of the time, not just five times a day.
      
      What people would change the Bible to make it impossible for us to measure up to God's perfect standards?  My conclusion is that those teachings had to come from the God of grace revealed in the Bible who accepts believers as they are (the meaning of grace) and then begins a lifelong transforming process in their lives that only ends in perfection in the next life. 
      
      How can God accept imperfect believers in the 3-in-1 God?  He accepts us only because of the God-man Jesus' perfect life, real death, and resurrection, events that no one could have imagined, many eyewitnesses saw and reported, and that God caused. 
      
      That's what and why I believe in that mysterious God of the Bible.

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   SpanStarposted 13 years ago

   I have to admit I'm not sure what you're asking?  The bible wasn't written to be placed on the Best Seller' List.
   
   The bible was written for those who want to believe but if one isn't a believer then they need not take any part in the bible.
   
   You mention's Jesus's mother Mary regarding writing a book- Only Jesus was sent to safe mankind no one else.

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      nikki1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Well I'm sure God does not mind, beings that means his life was popular. Its just sad a good chunk of people are so angry with God. He died for us. He gave a beautiful day,.

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   brotheryochananposted 13 years ago

   Jesus was never a book writer. The old testament was written by god, through people, and so was the new testament written by god, through people. It's safe to say that a+ students can write books about what Einstein started and that they would be accurate and books to learn from but when it comes to gods word, the unsaved are notorious at beeking off that they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that any book written by any apostle of christ couldn't be worth reading.
   Its too bad females can't get over themselves enough to submit to the place that they are in. Yes women are revered as second class citizens but did god ever change this? He went right along with the flow. Adam was created first and then god asked adam to name the animals before he created eve and shortly afterward, eve ruined everything. There's your legacy, live with it.
   We don't need a book of jesus. There's so much in the bible that all UNCANONIZED books are just fine where they are, outside of canon. Gospel of thomas contradicts bible truths, gnosticism is wrong. Enoch is next to the worst book for portraying gods world. The lost books of adam and eve and horrendous crap.
   The bible is designed to make people think. We are to fervently seek him. A lot of christians when they don't have the answer they want or any answer at all, instead of praying and waiting on god they run to another source. This displeases god immensely and a wilderness situation is just around the corner for these heady theologists.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The old testament was written by man. Get it write. It was man who physically wrote it. And, you cannot claim divine inspiration, because you do not know that for a fact.
      
      What you have is faith? Or Hope that you are right?
      
      Either way, what your faith or hope relates to doesn't make it correct or even accurate in any way, shape or form.

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         brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Actually i do know that for a fact. Its you who do not know that for a fact.
             Christianity is like anything else.
             I stand at a window looking in and i see a train set in the window all set up with trees, landscape and a tunnel. I can either say two things. 'Gee i like that' or 'That's stupid'.
         Gee i like that: so i go in and look around. I see all sorts of cool things to do with the train set. I purchase the train set and months later i have a bigger train set. A whole new world has opened up to me and training is fun fun fun!
         Or i can think like you do, 'Thats stupid'.
         So i don't buy the train set and anybody who has a train set is just an idiot. What a waste of time you think. You even go out of your way to post articles against train sets. Doesn't matter if you are right or wrong you bray like a donkey anyway.
         
         Christianity has proven itself to ME. I have, with spiritual eyes seen gods hand in my life and other peoples to the point where there is no doubt whatsoever that god exists. Christian training is the best!
              Where as you go around and spout off words of death and negativity and even lies because you are ignorant of the truth, its not your fault you speak of what you do know and i speak of what i know. I am in christianity and you are way off somewhere else but you claim to know more than me and i am on the inside looking out and you are outside looking in. I read a grade 12 mathbook once but i still can't do grade 12 math. So the little bit of page flipping you did through the bible doesn't make you an authority. lol.
           If you were christian training you could speak words of life and make people happy and do good deeds and help stop cancer or even one day maybe pastor a church or go to foreign lands and spread the good news of the gospel or help people there, but instead you hang around in your small world, beating against things that try to accomplish good.
         I am free! light of spirit and kindly of heart and christ has made me that way. Good luck to you, but i say you will never find proof of god outside the window looking in.
         
         God created everything. God spoke to his prophet moses in audible voice and throughout the old testament different people whom god chose. Jesus taught his disciples first hand. Matthew wrote first then gave the gospel to luke and mark and they confirmed what matthew wrote, but with different words that interconnect so beautifully and yet give a slightly different picture. Gods word is so so so inspired of god that im sorry you don't allow yourself to understand that one simple bit of information.
         
         Good luck.

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         Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         What hope and faith do you have, Cags?  We all believe in something or someone, maybe ourselves, for life's meaning.  I believe that I asked this question before of you.  Why are you so sure that your reasoning powers or whatever else you trust in is correct?  Maybe there is a supernatural realm that your reasoning hasn't considered.  How can you be so sure that it doesn't exist?

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            wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Like my brother in Christ said, try it, you might love it! Otherwise, you will never know. I see your condemning acts against Christianity as a cry out for something of God to fill your empty life. I shall pray for you.

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               Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               easy tiger, sounds like pulpit regurgitation.
               Bruce is quite cordial in his statements and if your head wasn't so far up the bible you might understand his point. So maybe we should be praying for you....

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      (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You know, one of the interesting aspects about the practice of Louisiana Voodoo is that it is aligned with Christianity. In other words, those who practice Voodoo are also Christians, who are as fervent about their Christian beliefs as any other.
      
      But, what's also interesting is that they don't have their women submit to the same misogynist view, but instead elevate them to queens and saints who are respected and revered by everyone.
      
      It sure is funny how the bible is designed to make people think.

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         brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         hmmm voodoo and christianity together.... well i guess i know now why all that oil spilled into the gulf and those floods... God is mighty indeed.
         In this case the bible didnt make them think, some perverter of truth conned them. So sad. I'd quote you the verses against this amalgamation but i wont bother, it should be obvious.
         
         Yknow what i don't understand is why the men are not upset about being subservient to god? With all this authority why should we sumit to anyone? lol.

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            (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You can probably use the same rationale for anything bad that happens to you, your family and your friends, too.
            
            
            
            It's quite obvious you have no argument and are just tossing out any old excuse.
            
            
            
            Nice deflection. Hard questions are really hard, aren't they?

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               brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Well voodoo and christianity are just no no's as far as compatibility and scripture adjuration. So i am really short on what to say except something like, maybe, unbelievable, but since all the unsaved are quick to blame god i thought i might too, then, something weird happened.. you defended my response by saying what i said wasn't credible and that there was a rational reason why what i said might not apply... In short you cut your own throat and i tricked you. Now it seems no matter what i say, you will just be very quick to refute it lol. Need more rope?
               
               Then i go ahead and say "look a perverter of truth" and again you rally against it, and yet all you want to do is broadcast, 'the bible is preached by perverters of truth'. Again you add more rope to you own noose.
               
               Then you say i deflect! Then you try make me look bad by saying 'hard question'... no its not a hard question. Its been answered so many times before and over and over, its probably been on a good year blimp. I really just wanted to comment on the voodoo thing, as you can tell this was a tiring subject to respond too, the only point of interest was the voodoo thing, which you just stated and i could find no proof on the internet of.
               I think you will say anything to suit your own intents.

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                  luvpassionposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  People who practice Voodoo believe that every event that takes place happens as the result of another event.
                  
                  They believe that we are all connected to the universe and each other so everything and everyone will ultimately end up somehow affecting something or someone else.
                  
                  In Voodoo religion there is one supreme God under which many other spirits or Loas work. These could be considered angels in another context.
                  
                  These Loas are seen as having control over the prosperity, health and happiness of mortals. In this we see a similarity not only with Christian religion but many different religions as well.

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                     brotheryochananposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Wheres the dolls and the extra long pins? 

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                        (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        The fact that you live in the Pacific Northwest and those other Christians live in Louisiana may very well be the difference. They may see the wide use and cultivation of Cannabis there as the dolls and extra long pins.

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                        ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        in the acupressure place right by 78th st.

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                     Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     But, luvpassion, Christian beliefs are very different from the pantheistic or animistic faith of voodoo.  The God of the Bible is separate from the universe that he made, he is three Persons in one God, Jesus is fully God and fully human and came to live perfectly, die in believers' place for our not-guilty verdict with our divine Judge, rise from the dead to give believers new life, and re-enter heaven to rule the universe.  Only through a personal relationship with that mysterious God can we be rescued.  Does voodoo teach any of those biblical truths?  I think not.  But you can believe as you wish.

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                        wilmiers77posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Actually, Jesus is considered divine and human, Not God! Religion is a set of rules and policies. I have Faith in Jesus and belief in the scriptures. Personal relationship is what counts, than with the joy of it in my heart, I go to church to be edified on my own.
                        
                        Its God, the Father, encompassing the Son, Jesus and God's Holy Spirit with the latter being the order also. One God, my man.
                        
                        This is spiritual first and uttermost with physical manifestations as dispensed by your God.
                        
                        If you don't believe that the universe has intelligent design just research speech by Albert Einstein. But, there is a possibility that you are smarter than Einstein?

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                  (Q)posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  No more unbelievable than any other interpretation of Christianity. They may very well look at you as being a heretic, like, maybe.
                  
                  
                  
                  Huh?
                  
                  
                  
                  Again, huh?
                  
                  
                  
                  Answering questions injected with magic and mystery are not answers, they are fairy tales, and not even very good ones, at that.
                  
                  
                  
                  I would suspect that is a fabrication or you simply didn't search.

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                     ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     "Huh?" being the operative word.

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         Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah, Q, I enjoy thinking within the context of the Bible to relate to the people and ideas of the world.  It's interesting knowing how people think and evaluating their thoughts in the light of the Bible.  What is your basis for evaluating people's ideas?  I'm interested.

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      Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Brother, I usually agree with you, but when you say that the Bible makes women second-class citizens, I'll have to disagree.  In Genesis 1, God created male and female fully in his image and likeness so that both have equal status before God.  That's why Paul and Peter called on husbands to love (that is, sacrifice themselves to take care of their wives' needs as Christ did for the church--Ephesians 5) and to treat wives with respect as fellow heirs (1 Peter 3:7).  Both sexes have equal status before God and each other.
      
      You are partially right, though, about the Bible's clear description of the two functions or roles, not status, in relationship to each other.  Men are called to be the humble servant-leaders supplying their wives needs and helping them, whereas women were created to be men's suitable helpers (Genesis 2) supporting them.  As men serve their wives in self-sacrificial love, God lifts them to make the final decisions in matters that would otherwise tear the marital union apart.  1 Corinthians 11:3 describes those roles, not status:  "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." 
      
      The word "head" does not mean a dominant, dictatorial person, but a servant-leader.  God sacrificed Christ in serving believers.  Similarly, husbands sacrifice themselves to please their wives and thus are called make the final decisions in marriage.  Someone has to make them or the marriage is doomed, as many are today. 
      
      God has given both sexes their roles within their shared equality in status.  That's how I interpret a complicated biblical teaching.

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   DzyMsLizzyposted 13 years ago

   Actually, there WAS a book of Mary Magdalene...carefully removed by the chauvinists at the Council of Nicaea in about 300-something "A.D."  (oh, pardon me..we're now supposed to call it "C.E." !) ...
   
   Here's the rest of the answer---and many, if not most, won't like it.  Take it or leave it..I submit for information only, but I will not engage in any argument on the matter.
   
   There were many more books deleted at that infamous meeting/council than actually exist in the current book..and you are most correct... there is no 'book of Jesus,' because it was never written...and ... neither was most of the rest of it until many, many years later.  So Jesus did not, in fact, 'give us' the Bible.  There is only one book that was written at about the time, and that is the letters to the Romans (aka 'book of Romans')....
   
   The rest of it was written from handed-down stories several generations later..none of the books then, can be said to be accurate of anything more than, as you said, a 'snapshot' of the times and what life was like and how people thought.
   The same is true of any other derivative "holy" book, such as the Torah (which is merely the 1st 5 books of the "old testament").
   
   How do I know this for a fact?  Because my husband is actually a licensed minister, and learned these things IN seminary school!  He does not practice due to being disgusted with the real truth of religion as learned on the 'inside track.'
   
   "You mean to tell me,"  he asked a professor, "that every preacher and minister and priest out there KNOWS all this stuff??!!"
   "Yes." was the reply.
   "Then how can they look thier congregations in the face, and live with themselves every day, preaching what they know to be false, when truth is an underlying concept in these teachings??"
   "Because, the professor said, "People need to be told what to do." 
   
   So, hubby does not practice as a minister save for performing the occasional wedding, because his ethical standards will not allow him to preach what he learned.

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      WizardOfOzposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting post.  Thanks
      
      I have considered religion as an occupation.  I am not a believer but I figured that the evangelist protestant movement seemed like a winner. I am a student of the bible but certainly not religious.
      
      Good story of the other side.

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         Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I hope you come to believe before you become a religious leader.  Jesus reserved his most severe criticism for the hypocritical religious leaders.  Just my opinion.

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      Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi, DzyMsLizzy.  I'm interested in your husband's experience at seminary.  Don't assume that all seminaries are like that one or that all professors have that perspective.  I went to a seminary that purposely believed the Bible to be God's Word and that taught us to preach it as from God.  In all of my 27 years of preaching, I believed what I preached and still do, including God as three Persons in one God, Jesus as fully God and fully human, his lfe, death, and resurrection as our way to God the Father, and the Holy Spirit's transforming process in the lives of believers, which I have experienced. 
      
      Therefore, that professor's generalization about pastors does not fit me or any pastors that I know.  We believe in the Bible because the God of the Bible has given us the new birth, faith, and the desire to follow and be like Jesus.  I agree that there is some politics in some churches, but there are many churches in my experience that are humbly following the God of the Bible rather than dominating their members.   
      
      I invite your response and that of your husband.

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         DzyMsLizzyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         As I said, I will not engage in any argument on the matter.

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            Randy Godwinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            You would be wasting your breath anyway, DM!  He has already stated:
            
            "I went to a seminary that purposely believed the Bible to be God's Word and that taught us to preach it as from God."
            
            It makes no difference how much truth you give him, his indoctrination was successful, unlike that of your very fortunate husband!

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    wilmiers77posted 13 years ago

    The idea that Jesus gave us the bible is totally fallacious. The inspired Words from God gave us the bible. Jesus brought life to the bible. The old testament often referred to the coming of Jesus. The New Testament is about the living word of God who is our Savior.

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       Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks, wilmiers, for your comment with which I mostly agree.  Do you believe that Jesus is fully God?  If so, then the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as the one true God inspired the Bible as he also created us, rescued us, and works growing faith in our lives.  In that way, you can say that Jesus with the Father and the Spirit inspired or gave us the Bible.  Do you agree?  You can disagree.

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    Twenty One Daysposted 13 years ago

    wil, most only see past their own version of satisfaction -belief or disbelief (aka religion). Y`shua is called the 2nd Adam for a reason -being the fullness of Creator in bodily form. This was also Adam -if folk read genesis correctly. Instead they feel compelled to justify their sarcastic ignorance or supplement argumentative faux salvation. Don't let it get to you...

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    stephane86posted 13 years ago

    Technically, the Bible is the Word of God, the Revelation of Love and Law. Jesus is the Revelation of God, He is the Incarnate Word. Jesus is the Spoken Word, while the Bible is the Written Word. All the words in the Bible can be summed up and consummated in the Eternal Word of God, who is Jesus Christ. In truth, the whole Bible speaks of Jesus, especially the Gospels, since He came to fulfill all the prophecies.

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       Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       so without the pseudo babble, tell the people exactly what that means and what they should ACTUALLY do.

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          Bruce_Leiterposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          21, hi!  If a person believes that the Bible came from God and that God through Jesus by the Holy Spirit's power has rescued him or her, he or she should pray constantly for God's strength, read the Bible, and seek God's power to make progress in following God's many principles in his Book in his or her every day life..

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