Is Atheism a Peaceful Alternative to Religion?
- just_curiousposted 13 years ago
0Yes, we can thank the believers of the world who put us in that predicament over the past many centuries. And of course, believers are continuing to do all they can to stop us from trying to educate the planets population. Thanks for that.
Not at all, the hard evidence for that is all over this forum. Believers do not make up their minds, they refer to scriptures to tell them what to do. They often will claim that without the rules of the bible, people will kill each other off. It's really quite hilarious.
There are no choices to be made with religious beliefs, only indoctrination.
True, but a teacher who tells you to accept beliefs without question or critical thinking is not teaching, they are instead indoctrinating. Big difference.The formation of the belief itself proves no god exists. All religion supposedly inspired by a god or claiming a god's will, yet the forming of the belief itself is a selfish action. Therefore, all actions afterward are also selfish.
Ok how about this:
Before I knew this man Jesus Christ ,I had no purpose or direction,lots of why questions ,and is this all there is kinda curiousty?.
People I loved dying ,the world always at war.
I grew disappointed with me ,my fellow man and began to wonder about this man who walked upn the earth 2,000 years ( actually the time factor isnt an issue with me,but I read Proverbs ,then Corinthians ,then Micah (heavy) but good ,and before I knew it ,it helped me understand many things in my world.
Most of all God never changed his mind-that really impressed me.
I guess my point would be this:
What does it matter when it happened ,or even why it happened, what is important did learning about this man Jesus Christ help me.
Yes it did
Do I kill people ,no I dont ,do I even want too ,definately not.
Am I a better person ,my family and friends think so, that is my reality.
The bottom line is if I die and find out ,Jesus never existed ,my life was still better and somehow purpse fulfilled.
I am no pyscologist ,so I only speak from a personal experience.If you're dead, how are you going to find out anything? The loss of complete consciousness is death.
That's a very good philosophy. Of course, I'm somewhat prejudiced since I'm mostly on the same page as this.
AKA:
I'm standing, clapping, whistling and stomping my feet in approval!
Well said!:
Qwarkaka-dj wants to educate people that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ and evolution is a lie to attack the word of god.
Jesus speaks directly into his head and he thinks fighting for Jesus is right and proper and the only reason there are arguments is because us atheists will not accept the truth he wants us to see.
I can do without that sort of education.
Communism is based on Christianity, that is an old and tired argument. Communism isn't about atheism as much as it is about everything within a given society including economics, production, military, ownership, education, etc. etc. etc.
Of course, dishonest Christians will only focus on the one.
Yes, I can see how you dishonestly would write something like that without actually finding out what it's all about.
Do people call you a "Militant Atheist"? Good, then tell them what Militant Atheism is not. It is nothing like Militant Islam or Militant Christianity, where the weapons of choice are guns, explosive devices, and weapons of mass destruction. Our weapons of choice are reason, logic and science. Our system of delivery for this ammunition are books, websites and science journals. We counter the fairy tale, delusional conception and memetic mind virus of religion with facts, proved theories, universal laws and, above all, reason.
~~ Al Stefanelli on the Richard Dawkins Foundation.
Yes, dishonest Christians will paint such a picture of atheism all the while ignoring the facts.So, are you saying a dishonest Christian wrote the Wikipedia article? I just cut and pasted. You aren't calling me dishonest are you?
Of course, you dishonestly cut and pasted those quotes without looking into them and then offered your own misinformed opinions. That most certainly is intellectually dishonest.
I missed this. Ok, you're right. I took a simplistic statement and added a simplistic conclusion. This is exactly what you do in arguing that religion causes war. Shame on you for chastising me for copying your tactics. I'll tell you like I told Mark. Up the game. This argument is old.
Sorry. This was not intended to raise anyone's dander. I was simply trying to point out how ridiculous it sounds to blame violence on belief, or lack thereof. It appears, you at least half way agree with me.
Why is it only believers that think their religion has nothing to do with the way they behave?
Oddly, that is not what I said.
Oh wait. That's not so odd. You never listen, or read. Of course that is the conclusion you'd come to. It's the only one you know how to type.
Yes, yes it is what you say. You spend all your time defending your religion and claiming it does not influence your behavior. And of course pointing out that all them other Christians are not real Christians so they behavior should be ignored.
This is why your religion causes so many wars.arghh.
do you never get bored with this. What, exactly have I done that is warlike? Other than batting away at your silly attempts to attack?You wouldn't understand. Apparently. Silly attempts to attack? Dear me. No wonder your religion causes so many fights.
- it's a joke? I get it. you're a joke? I could get that.
I couldn't understand what you're trying to say? Say something intelligent and try me, or admit you are simply here to be a twit.
What dander.
There is a difference between a belief system that tells it adherents that their way is the only way, like Islam and Christianity and Judaism, and atheism which doesn t say anything at all because it is not an ideology.
Your religion has proven to be dangerous if adhered to in strict accordance with what the bible says. The only reason Christianity has settled down is because of Luther, who basically fragmented it to the point where it can no longer hold power anywhere.
You had to separate church and state because you can t agree on anything and would be at each other s throats if you didn t.
Can you imagine fundamentalists getting into power. Oh wait. Wasn t that the Bush years.Ok. On the flip side. When will atheists get it through their heads that the only thing connecting christians is the name? It works both ways slarty. I have little more in common with another person that calls themself christian than I have with you. I follow little more than my conscience on this matter. This archaic belief that we are somehow a united army is just as tiring to me as the frustration you voiced.
You'd obviously be surprised at what some of the atheists here are saying then.
I'm just glad no one knows which house to show up at with pitchforks and lynch mob.
At least you are openminded and not blind to the treachery of mankind period.
However you live your life -I hope its a good oneThe treachery of mankind? Your religion, along with the other Abrahamic religions have dominated the mindsets of mankind for centuries, providing the building blocks for treachery and a host of other atrocious behaviors. History is replete with such examples.
That is exactly the "openminded" you referred previously as having your brains fall out.
Morning Mark.
I knew this would pluck a nerve in you.
I'm simply saying, change up. The argument doesn't hold water if you make it appear as if religion, in and of itself, causes all conflict.
And I am pretty sure the voices in my head are just me talking. I find it hard to shut up, but it's only me.I never said religion was the only cause of war. Dear me.
This is why your religion causes so many wars. Sorry you do not think this is worth addressing and changing. I guess I don't really blame you. If I thought I was going to live forever and the real life was after I was dead - I would probably not want to improve the world either.
ciao- Therein lies the fallacy of your argument. I don't think that way. The problem I see is that the aggressive atheist argument is that the world is all cloned, with the exception of the aggressive atheist posting. If you don't take the time to understand your fellow man you can't realistically contribute to any solution. You espouse a desire to look at the world realistically. There is actually a whole branch of learning dedicated to the study of the human condition. Perhaps a little study in this field would be enlightening.
My blood just isn't as chilled by your examples as by the examples of the crusades, the inquisition et all.
I kinda think the point is often missed. Religion may not be the direct cause of war but it is one of the most powerful tools for evil people to use to start wars. Without religion it would be a lot harder to demonize 'the other guys' so that killing them is somehow good. It's down to the religious mindset being all frothed up into a killing fever that is justified by a belief.
Atheism is no different in this regard. When someone is an atheist who's mindset resembles the religious mindset there is the potential for problems. This is down to human nature not religion or atheism. As far as I understand (and someone with good facts can correct me) Marx had his words and works twisted and used as a tool (much the way religion is a tool). I do not hold Jesus responsible of the actions of his followers (I also don't join the religion either, as I want no association with something I find so sicking as the power mongers in religion) and I do not hold Marx responsible for what others did with his thinking/works.
I guess this is why I am none of the above. I just want the freedom to live my life and will allow others the same freedom I myself wish for. God can come have a word with me if thats not cool, my phone is operational, its easy to call- If a desire for peace is a religious mindset, I guess I'll keep it.
Tilting at windmills has always been a favorite pastime for me.Tilting at windmills? Never heard of that before! Sounds like something you do when drunk?
I don't think a desire of peace is a religious mindset, I actually guess that both you and Mark desire for peace. You just have very different ideas on how to make that happen, conflicting reasons with the central focus being religion.
Sorry . I didn't mean to laugh, but of course an argument can be made that there is a correlation between the philosophy of atheism and the actions of its proponents; if you make the argument that religion leads to war, unless you simply stop thinking at the point that makes you the most comfortable.
Personal philosophies of those who govern directly impact the people forced to life within their rule. It is the nature of government.No. That is not what I am saying at all. I am saying that someone's philosophy, who has control over the masses, will work within their philosophy. They don't have to believe anything at all. I am not saying atheism is the root cause of the 170 million dead due to communism. I am saying it is a factor. Just as a leader's philosophy on religion is a factor on other fronts. To argue that the concept of atheism has not influenced the actions of its proponenets lacks integrity, or any serious thought on the matter. One of the two.
You can't blame religion for all that troubles this world.You know, if you then concede that the same holds true for all beliefs, or lack thereof, I will concede the point.
I'll concede that merely believing in a god does nothing, just as not believing in a god does nothing. You can't blame either of those for anything.
However, I won't concede the same for religions, as they DO have a creed; that's why atheism and religion cannot be compared -- they're not even contrasting beliefs. The issue is that having a religion necessarily requires belief in a deity, and people are quite willing to do things in the name of that deity because their religion tells them to. I think we can agree on that?Yes.
One does not need a title such as atheist to ignore bronze aged hate fests.
Common sense is all that is required.- Onusonusposted 13 years ago0
Money talks bs walks
I dont think Ive met any athiests here or outside of the Internet who are peaceful and happy?
Least they dont present as being happy go lucky.2/3 of the population is religious in some manner. Therefore, I wouldn't think you would run into too many atheists.
Dear me.
Talk about "hypocracy."
Little wonder your religion causes so many wars.Funny that you do not understand yourself. Oh well. This is why your religion causes so many wars.
Oh well.............. Bet Jesus is right proud a ya.Hi Greeneyes, Welcome to hubpages. You can sense pretty well.
Mark has been causing many wars by attacking christians in the forums because we believe in God and enjoy discussing our faith. Yes I can see how easy it is. You are exactly right.
Pity you do not keep it personal - innit?
Christianity doctrine #1 teach to be selfless, yet the belief in a god is selfish. Great to know you fight against your own self and fail to see it.
That has got to be one of the funniest things I've read today. Period.
Perhaps, we need to remove the word, "Religion" from our lexicon as it appears there is no such thing.
Missed it by THAT much! As Maxwell Smart would say.
By the way I am still wondering what an Atheist is in the minds of believers?hello again earnest
you are still here? LOL I really figured you guys would have moved on to mor important and fun things in life than debating on here SILLNo.
Hey ernest. Don't you thing an atheist is the same as a believer? Just another human with a different point of view? I'm sure this was not my question to answer, but you should know me well enough by now to know I have a big mouth. I'm definitely not mute.
A believer believes, an atheist thinks.
A believer will tell you how to live your life according to their doctrines, an atheist will not tell you how to live your life.
A believer will threaten you with their gods wrath and eternal damnation if you don't believe, an atheist makes no threats.
A believer invokes magic into all of their explanations, an atheist invokes scientific thought processes, hard evidence and facts.
A believer will indoctrinate their children into their belief system, an atheist will teach his children all about the various religions and to think for themselves.
Shall I go on?That's not true. I believe in something more, but none of those fit me. I know you think the first one does, but the funny thing is; I printed off this whole thing from the site you suggested and, in many ways, I see my way of analyzing this problem more than yours as following this philosophy.
Just so you know, I did not raise my child in the Christian church. His spirituality is his, and his alone. Believers are not mindless clones, no mater how often you propose otherwise.Or, no matter how often the observation presents itself in full, living technicolor.
Beelzedad, although I consider you to be the most level headed and possibly the most intelligent of the agressive atheists, it is not entirely outside the bounds of possibility for you to be wrong on this point. Such an intractable stand is, apparently, outside of the bounds of a proponent of the method of thinking you have suggested I read up on.
Why would you undermine your argument by suggesting I review this site?
I reckon that covers most of it. Hard to disagree with the truth, but someone will.
Yes, believers once had thoughts until their religious indoctrination crushed their abilities to think critically out of existence. That is how indoctrination works.
I would have thought it was a fair generalization based on what I see here and in the real world.
I do however agree that not all believers fit the whole bill, and would also say you are not radical in your beliefs.You are really quite a sweet guy Earnest and I appreciate the measure of respect you show me. Thanks
I agree its a generalisation,but depending on who wrote it ,one could quite clearly adapt it to suit either side.
Honestly there are nutty people all over da place.
That is my perception
Please feel free to refute my points rather than just tossing out an empty word.
Hey, just because she can succinctly make an empty statement doesn't make it any more empty than your statement. She's just better at putting an untruth in a nutshell.
They have already been refuted ,no sense in filling a box with words for the hell of it
A tremendous amount of knowledge and understanding, that was the entire point.
If you wish to talk about wasted resources, just look at the amount of churches and other places of worship that litter the landscape.
Sorry, but do you have a point there? I see no connection whatsoever between an experiment and a t-shirt.
If you're unable to complete a coherent sentence or make a valid point about reality, what makes you think I would listen to your advice on life?
It is 'compassionate' to threaten folks with eternal damnation. That's a new one. Would you threaten your kids with eternal damnation just because they ate a chocolate?
And of course, you fail to distinguish the fact that there is a huge difference between "trying wrong things" and not accepting the beliefs of your religion, which is really what the threats are all about.
It appears you know very little about atheists.
Strawman fallacy. That has nothing to do with my point.
Really? So, you worship Allah, Zeus, Thor and a host of other gods and you follow all of the related religions?
Yeah, sure.
You mean you have even more nonsense to offer?
No, I think atheism is a religious concept.
I don't believe a scary fantasy written by a bunch of goat herders is "truth" that doesn't make me an atheist, it simply means I know the difference between reality and fantasy.See? It's like I said. You're another human with a different opinion.
Well, it's a miracle..we agree on all of your statements. Don't do that too often.
People might mistake us for clones. I would have thought that highly unlikely!
no one can truely REALLY understand unless they experience for themselves. People can try to understand but they really cant comprehend. One has to experience something first to get the full intention
One who has been abused can understand the pain of another who has went through it where as one who has not been abused can't completely understand the full damage. They can only TRY to understand.. Experience is a must before people blab about something or someone they know nothing about
No offense, but reading your posts is somewhat painful. If you decide to write them in English rather than leetspeek, I'll be happy to address them.
He provides little more than contradictions.
No one is grading anyone or is snobbish. If he's too lazy to use words rather than leetspeek, why should I bother to address his posts?Like this for example:
“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”
Albert Einstein, March 24, 1954.
Will you be doing that soon or sometime in the future?
I'd like to see that!
Beezledad this is what I meant.
The Armour Of God
Introduction
1) The Belt Of Truth
2) The Breastplate Of Righteousness
3) Shod Feet
4) The Shield Of Faith
5) The Helmet Of Salvation
6) The Sword Of The Spirit
7) PrayerAmen.
Shouldn't you have added in reality as well as fantasy? You know, the Crusades, the Inquisition, witch burnings, etc.?
Okay, you tell your god to come visit me and I'll take it up with him. Can you do that? Will he listen?
Funny how you say you're for peace, but everything you describe about your god is in terms of war. Quite the contradiction.
You're joking, right?
"The Armour Of God
The Breastplate Of Righteousness
The Shield Of Faith
The Helmet Of Salvation
The Sword Of The Spirit
Warfare"Oh Dear..
Is it because you dont want to get it ,or could you be splittng hairs Beelzedad?
Spiritual warfare is NOT...I repeat NOT taking or advocating the taking up a weapon.
Maybe these words will help clarify it for you.
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. Ephesians 6: 10-18
The written word is like an arrow etc. The word
Some religions and their creeds and doctrines make me sick!
I have even visited and spoken with a few members ,who equally need a reality check.
Jesus didnt come for people to be bound up in traditions and rituals ,rather he came to break them.
In his day he was dispised by Pharisees, who didnt want to give up their power over the people to a man who wore sandals and offered love ,joy and peace ( and that wasnt from a bong)
In so much as some churches disgust me ,with their holier than thou attitudes and lofty ranks of honour- some with connections in other places I dont hate them.
Thats not to say he doesnt have standards,he does, yet the Holy Spirit is a gentleman ,he never confuses and he never oppresses.Eaglekiwi, I am enjoying your sense of humor.
Jesus came to set people free from bondages.Oh thankyou WOC ( I dont mean to be) funny, but sometimes I just cant help it
LOL
Now I understand. You do not know the meaning of "fathom"
Or "proof"No, he did not.
Thanks for agreeing with us. Notice that nowhere in there does he say he believes in a god?You were done even before you started.
Yes, I do understand you pity people who have brought you out caves and provided every modern convenience you now use every day of your life. Yeah, we're just thieves.
Defeating with hypocrisy, contradictions and logical fallacies? That's something new.
Yes, I do understand that your religious indoctrination has taught you to believe you hold the absolute truths in han and are vastly superior to the rest of us, despite reality and facts to the contrary. Yeah, I get that.So, are you insulting me personally because it's the Christian thing to do?
And of course, you never use cars, microwaves, computers internet connection... oh wait, yes you do. More contradictions?
So, believers hire scientists to build them weapons of war which they use to kill others. Or is it the other way round?
I really can't believe you actually said that.
I suspect it would be the believers in your cult who would make the claims that it was your god who caused that destruction. Why would any sane person think a god would do such a thing?
Ah yes, the Christian thing to do.
Funny you should say that...
And, what law is that? None that I've ever heard...
Did you make that up?
- religion created peace within and peace without the number one killer brought peace...the basic premise of thing which divides human created peace???..
- when you put it that way it solves the problem of the argument. Unless someone knows of someone simply stating 'i believe in a god, so let's go to war.'
Like they liked the Gettys? Or that well known billionaire who swears he has his own hair yet it looks like a red vegetable dyed dead rodent strapped to his skull?
Some women just fall in love with power by proxy, and Zeus was loaded with all sorts of mythical power.Yeh, I guess when you put it that way. I always figured he was probably loaded with pheromones, but it probably was the power thing. Well, thanks a lot Ernest. Looks like another one of my assumptions bites the dust in the light of the cold cruel world.
Remind me never to discuss fairies with you.
Geez Slarty! You slowed them down with that one!
Don't you have access to wiki?
- jomineposted 13 years ago0
Well, I'd have to disagree with your conclusion. One doesn't have to be atheistic to rise above the status of just another animal. One simply must be reasonable, thoughtful and compassionate. No one philosophy has a monopoly on that.
I think History has already proven the Statement/Question un-true. All Races, People no matter the belief- fight, mame, kill, slaughter, hate, talk....etc....
I think honestly it is our Human-Animal make up, nothing to do with Religion or non-beliefe. But we use it as a good excuse to hide behind.
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