Google doesn't like long hubs?

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   Janet21posted 15 years ago

   I read the above quote on another thread and was wondering if anyone here can confirm that this is the case.  Do you have long hubs, over 800 words?  Are they doing well as far as Google traffic goes?
   
   Should I try to keep my hubs under 800 words?

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      sunforgedposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      its arguable, what the optimum length should be.
      
      the original statement you quoted is hogwash - they heard wrong.
      
      But it is true that internet readers have short attention spans - 800 words is what a lot of the studies consider the limit of attention span.
      
      but does google underrank lengthy articles, no ...does google like short articles, no
      
      Since one of the factors that may be considered for adsense sites is page view duration - you may even expect that alonger writing that maintains a reader would benefit positively since google has access to all our stats

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      charlemontposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      This is not the exact figure you should keep in mind from now on. It's rather an estimate. I say '800 words' primarily because "some final words" extend the hub, and readers' comments (some of which can be real lengthy) add up, too.
      Long hubs are OK. I think when the number of words really matters is when you struggle to rank among #10 websites in Google. Again, this is not my opinion. It's one of the requirements imposed by Internet Business Promoter which I open randomly to check rankings of several of my hubs. While a hub can do well on its own, when it comes to beating competition it's important to do some tweaking, and word count is just one of the many tweaks.

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      packerpackposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think this is at all correct. More is the content better it is. Live example for long Hub doing well are Jerilee's Hubs. She always writes long Hubs and they are doing good too. Ask her!

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   Whitney05posted 15 years ago

   I don't have problems with long hubs. I think it all depends on what the hub is about. I have hubs over 1,500 words that make good traffic from Google (1 of which gets over 1,000 unique visitors a day on average), and others that may be around 1000 that don't. I think it's really all dependent on the topic. You just don't want one under 300 words, but at the same time I wouldn't think it a good idea for a 2000+ word hub either.
   
   Try to keep then in the 500-1000 range on average, I'd say. Too short and too long can look bad, but don't limit what you have to say just to be under 800 words.
   
   That person was incorrect.

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      forlanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      hi Whitney, I'm your fans. would you please tell me which hubs that get 1,000 unique visitors. Certainly, i will visit the hubs immediately.

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   Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago

   I do have a problem with long hubs. I prefer them around 800 myself.

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      RKHenryposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Ya, I've noticed that too.
      
      But if your hub is too short here on hubpages, it seems to have a much lower score.  Or well that's my case.  So it's a double edge sword.  Because if your hub score isn't good, the lower you are on the pole. Something needs to be changed.  It's a damned if you do and a damned if you don't.
      
      Glad you brought the subject up.  Thanks.

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   reggieTullposted 15 years ago

   Interesting thoughts.  Since I am a James Patterson fan - I think he has great success since his sentences are short, his paragraphs are short and so are his chapters.  There is something to be said about the short-and-to-the-point hub.  As for putting a number of words on it - difficult to say.  I have only recently joined - all my hubs have been relatively short.  I have initial scores in the 80's to low 90's but then drop.  They have leveled out in the 70's.  Still experimenting.  Time to write a long one.
   
   Thanks for some different opinions.

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   relacheposted 15 years ago

   I have some Hubs in the 1200 word range and neither Google nor my Hub visitors seem to have a problem with the word count.

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   badcompany99posted 15 years ago

   Must say I prefer it to be no longer than about 1,200 - 1,500 words and then my interest starts to go.

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   Everyday Miraclesposted 15 years ago

   I suppose that this is another example of why I need to be more careful in editing my writings. I know that I tend to be prolific and I also know that brevity is an art form.
   
   I would like to point out though that the number of visits that a long or short hub receives doesn't necessarily reflect whether or not the visitors are remaining to read the entire hub. I assume that comments would reflect this to varying degrees, of course.
   
   For the record, when I read it isn't the length that matters but the content of the article and the way in which it is laid out. Good spelling and grammar help a great deal as well.

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   bgpappaposted 15 years ago

   Its all about the content.  I have a very lenghthy hub that gets almost all of its traffic from Google.  But I also have some very short hubs that get good traffic as well. The key, I think, is whether the content interests enough readers.

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   badcompany99posted 15 years ago

   On the point of Grammar I really am strict on this but I do make an allowance for say Indian or foreign writers. I hope that doesn't sound racist in anyway it's just I find the English language difficult myself at times so with non english writers I will allow for small bad grammar mistakes, only small ok.

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    Everyday Miraclesposted 15 years ago

    I have studied other languages and English is not the most difficult. I would say it comes in second to Asian languages for me (a native English speaker).
    
    I agree with you to a certain extent, though. I write in MS Word with grammar check on now lol

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       badcompany99posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I would of course expected that from you Smarty Pants lol

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    darksideposted 15 years ago

    I say that the hub should be as long as it needs to be.
    
    Who is your audience? How are you presenting it?
    
    If I have a lot to say and it's a lot of heavy information, I'll split it up.
    
    But if it's... let say a hub about a historical figure, it might be a light read, but without fluff, I don't mind it being long. Cover the subject matter, don't bogged down with too many details.
    
    I have seen some hubs that have been probably 2000 words long, and badly written. They could with some editing (not just to cut down on the word count but to remove spelling mistakes and correct grammar). The hubber would have ended up with a 200 word hub and would have got their point across with greater effect.

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       Csanadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with darkside. As I like writing evergreen hubs, and my target audience is reasearches and stuff, I have no problem writing wrong hubs, Actually I always try writing at least 1000 characters or more long hubs. I'd like the search engines to be my primary sources of traffic on the long run

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    badcompany99posted 15 years ago

    Yeah but it can be too long Dark even if it's the best hub ever written. People do have a short attention span and you have to get their interest in that first paragraph or else you are chasing a beaten docket.

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       Everyday Miraclesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       That's a very good point! I used to obsess over first paragraphs when I was writing fiction. I've read too many books and stories in the past that were just so boring in the initial paragraphs (or chapters!) that I didn't want to continue reading.
       
       A very good and important point, my friend!

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          badcompany99posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I do that as well when reading a book, jeeeez are you the female religious version of me : )

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             Everyday Miraclesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I literally laughed out loud when I read this!

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    Lisa HWposted 15 years ago

    As far as super short Hubs go, besides the fact that HubPages generally seems to encourage something longer, I, myself, tend to click away because it looks like someone "didn't bother".
    
    Internet writers are always told that Internet readers have a short attention span.  I don't question studies that reflect that, although I, personally, am always looking for substance.  I'm always always battling my own tendency to "aim for substance" (sometimes interpreted by others as "long winded" or "tedious").  There are apparently those who want short sentences/short material (the majority) and those who are looking for "something more substantial" (the minority, I guess).  My thing is I don't particularly want to write "yet another of the same" brief pieces about subject.  Sometimes "unique" takes more words.
    
    Most writing sites say the problem with long stuff is that people click away too quickly, rather than not finding the thing in the first place.  I'm under the impression that (theoretically) if someone wrote a 3000-word piece, "My True Story About How I Became An Overnight Millionaire Without Marketing or Selling Anything, Without Talent, and Without Education"; it may be found and read if it looked good once people found it.
    
    My experience goes right with what others say about how traffic depends on how searchable and popular the subject is, as well as the quality and usefulness of the material.  As an online writer, though, my experience has been that it often my longer pieces that are most well received/rated by readers.  Maybe that's because people who want short material just click away and don't bother rating/voting/commenting.  For me, if it weren't for that long stuff, I wouldn't get some of the visibility I get.  Still, I have no doubt that all the longer pieces I've written have also "dragged me down".  What's the answer?  I don't know.  If I started to write quickie articles like "A Quickie Guide to Replacing Your Transmission" it isn't going to tell people what they need to know, and will most likely send them to where they'll find more/better information.
    
    This may be absolute ignorance (and wishful thinking) on my part, but I keep thinking about the Internet is getting more and more flooded with 400-word, basic, articles on any number of subject.  It would seem that over time, there would be more and more need for a way to further differentiate "all the good-enough, standard, but similar" pieces from one another.  (Google now lets people search images, based on how small or large an image they want.)
    
    Again, I'm not doubting the existing advice given to Internet writers; and this could be pure ignorance on my part, but I'm not sure I want to set my aims on what has been working up until now (although, of course, it would also be stupid to completely disregard that, and hope to a ton of traffic today ).
    
    I can't help but wonder if writing sites will continue to raise their minimum-word requirements; but maybe, too, the answer is to self-publish a book of your own material and call it what it is:  "My Collection of Big, Long, Tedious, Material."      The good thing about HubPages is it gives Hubbers the flexibility of deciding how long any Hub will be.  I don't think you can write about "dealing with the loss of parents" in a few short words, but it shouldn't take 1000 words to tell people how to make a fruitcake.  Maybe an approach would be to aim to "hand market" the longer things that, for now and maybe forever, will get clicked away from too soon.  (See the length of this post?  This tendency to have a lot of "thoughts to offer" is obviously a problem for me.    )

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    seemorebangkokposted 15 years ago

    I agree writing under 1500 words is probably the best. And following E.B. Whites seventeenth rule in The Elements of Style:
    
    "Omit Needless Words
    Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts."
    
    It's not as easy at it seems though, otherwise writing a novel would be super easy.

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       sunforgedposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Never expected to see that referenced here..wow elements of style
       
       Then again, many drawings to have unnecessary lines...that is style

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    sunforgedposted 15 years ago

    If my reader cant handle 800 words or more than good riddance.
    
    
    If my article was "How to stop a sucking chest wound" I make sure to be succinct
    
    
    But otherwise I try to cover all the bases and write as if the reader is not familiar with the topic, some flowery language isnt bad either.
    
    I prefer long articles, if im in a rush, i have a search option and a find option
    
    Ive been working on a hub "writing for dummies" ...and no its not a rip off of those big yellow books,LOL
    
    But google doesnt care

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    lindagoffiganposted 15 years ago

    If you want to stay within Google's guidelines of 1,500 the text boxes can be used in interval to fill with original and relevant content.  Also your subtopics will be bold as you fill each caption topic for the subject. My goal is to write up to 500 articles and then to expand the shorter ones that were to the point using additional text boxes from the content capsules.
    
    As you extend your articles, it is a good idea to include keywords and phrases for GoogleAdsense to increase earnings.

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    sunforgedposted 15 years ago

    "you want to stay within Google's guidelines of 1,500"
    
    what ios this guideline you speak of? Do you have a link?

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    Lissieposted 15 years ago

    Google likes content - the more the better - why? Because it gives it something to work with - the more content you have the more likely you are to get ranked for an obscure search phrase you never thought of.
    
    Its not about writing grammatically correct or well-styled prose. Its about using the words people search for. In Australia the government is in the process of making a payment to most tax payers - I wrote a number of posts about the "payout" - not the "economic stimulus payment" - the "payout" - a term not used on any official website and few of the news sites - I have been getting hundreds of hits for various keywords combos for months - everytime I see a new bunch of hits - I write a new post http://australia.today.com/2009/04/09/a … ayout-yet/ - this is not great literature -  nor will the traffic be everygreen  - but its paying me at the moment (because the site pays for traffic )
    
    Long hubs give you a better chance of getting traffic for searches you never thought of. They also turn off some readers - who may click an ad to get the short answer and get you paid. Readers are nice for the ego but they won't get you paid cause they are too busy reading and commenting to get you paid :-)
    
    The hubscore does favour longer hubs - but hubscore has nothing to do with your ranking in the search engines and therefore you ability to get search engine traffic - who are the ones who click the ads - not your friends and readers

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    reggieTullposted 15 years ago

    We have various opinions on how many words make a good hub and hence does well in the google searches.  So is there a technical limit to the size of our hubs and how that relates to word count.  If not, can we publish a book in our hub?

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    LondonGirlposted 15 years ago

    My hubs are long, but still concise, I think. 2,500 to 4,000 words is standard for my newer ones.

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       aniketgoreposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       3.5 to 4 k its really big count. Regarding the original topic it depends why you are writing? for money- then be in 600-900 range for readership be in 1300-1500 range and more than it it can be  a book after that.

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          JamaGeneeposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Not everybody here writes for money.  Some write for the sheer pleasure of writing.

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             aniketgoreposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Thats true i just said for everyone cause some are there who writes for money only.

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          LondonGirlposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          The few quid is nice, but that's not why I write. My sum total so far is less than my hourly rate! I write about stuff that interests me, and that I enjoy.

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          Csanadposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I actually thought of that when I started hubbing. When I will have substancial amount of content, I may put together a book (I mean a physical book, that people can buy in bookstores, not just e-books).

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       JamaGeneeposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Gee, LG, I never noticed.  Your hubs are always so interesting!

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          Elena.posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Same here, LG! Your hubs read like a snappy and fun filled cartoon at the back of the Sunday paper!  And, this is high praise for the cartoons at the back of any Sunday paper... which lately are everything but funny and snappy!!!

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       Uninvited Writerposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Like others have said, yours don't seem that long. I guess it all depends on if the hub is interesting enough.

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       Lisa HWposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       One man's "too long" is another man's "substance" or "comprehensive".  I don't think your Hubs come across as "too long".

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    AEvansposted 15 years ago

    I could not tell you how many words are on my hubs, I write because I love to do it, so based on also writing on EHow , I would say Google doesn't seem to have any issues with what is long, and what is short.Just my opinion.

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    rmshdcposted 15 years ago

    between 500 to 800 words is best.
    
    I wouldn't read myself long hubpages.  As thumb rule, I read one screen full of text quite comfortably.  Beyong three screen fulls (pressing PAGEDOWN thrice!) is boring!
    
    as far adsense is concern, google love LONG TEXT.

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    Nelle Hoxieposted 15 years ago

    It's not that Google likes or dislikes the amount of words. It may just stop scanning after a certain length. But no one is really sure when the scanning stops.
    
    As for hub length and readership. If the topic is interesting, I devour every word.
    
    It is helpful though if people remember to use paragraphs.

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    Research Analystposted 15 years ago

    I would say that Google likes content so if its long it won't hurt if anything it just will feed the machine.

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    imadorkposted 15 years ago

    All I know is, from my personal experience as a web surfer, I tend to bounce right out of an article that is too long.  If I'm searching for some info on the net and want something quick and easy to read about a subject, I look for an article that is reasonbly short.  I don't want to read a 3,000 word article about something I just want a simple overview on -- which seems to be the trait of most surfers.

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    lindagoffiganposted 15 years ago

    I think that when hubbers or other visitors read your article, they are looking for substance, relevancy, interest and a complete article.  A complete article thoroughly addresses the topic with verbage that is easily understood and is again relevant to everyday living.  When you write the article, you should not leave the reader with a question or an incomplete thought.  Normally, the word count of 1,500 is the word count when it comes to the right amount of words needed to for a complete article.  Before publishing your article, reasonably reread what you have written.  Be objective and ask whether or not you have written a complete article.  Sometimes, just by looking at the article at one glance can answer your question.  More often than not, a one paragraph article may be a feable attempt to get readership economically by word reduction.  A one paragraph article is an incomplete article and with the limited use words, is not strong enough to be a complete article addressing all facets of the topic.
    
    If you are still unsure if you have fully addressed your topic.  Use the word count feature on the edit page and see if you have used at least 1500 words or in that ball park figure.

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