Searching for God

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   Have there  always been two types of seekers? Those who want to know God and those who want to be God?
   
   Those who arrogantly proclaim they know the truth; whether it's because they claim to have met God,  are guided by the Holy Spirit, can read the Torah in multiple languages, have studied the quran or have some gnostic wisdom; do they understand that the shear act of putting themselves on a pedestal and proclaiming universal truth exposes them for frauds?
   
   Why do people do it?

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      Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Bravo Emile. I have been particularly bothered throughout my Church attendance history by those who continually claim the Holy Spirit is talking to them. We are expected to believe them and that this claim rubber stamps God's authority on what comes out of their mouths.
      
      I'm also irritated by those with some 'esoteric gnostic wisdom'. Yet their unwillingness to share this 'truth' tells me they either don't have it or it is something that is already common knowledge by the thinking person.

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         couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Most truth is common knowledge.  It cannot be shared, it must be received.  It is all around us but if one is not ready to receive it, it can't be seen.  I'm sure you understand this.  It's like a teen who believes his parents are stupid and thinks he knows it all, until he grows up and 'gets it'.

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            brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            So you say that the truth that is common knowledge is all around us but can't be seen yet needs to be received, yet its like a teen who sees his parents and listens to them, having ignored them, gets it one day.
            
            I am sure i do not understand this!
            
            I do not even know what truth you are referring to because there are many 'truths'.

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      Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      A real good topic question here. I think some that look for God and the answers about the higher power are in need of something to fill the void.
      
      Some ask questions b/c they really want to know. Some ask to just start a heated debate and they answer the comments in a negative and disrespective tone. These folks that do this, really don't want the answers, they want to see how many people they can *stir up*. It is sad to think that one would use the topic of God, not in the positive and learning type of setting. I would like I see less of the negative kind and more of the true genuine questions.  If someone wishes to really seek and find him, I believe that they will be successful in reaching answers to their questions.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I would consider that all who seek recognize a void. And that is not a bad thing.
         
         
         
         I'll respond to that, assuming it was directed at me. If it wasn't, I'd still respond the same way, although in defense of others. Everyone seeks. That is a fact. The dalai lama and Mother Teresa never claimed to know God. Neither claimed the ability to speak in his stead, or perform miracles.  Those are the two most enlightened examples I can think of in our age. If the most enlightened didn't and couldn't, that speaks volumes to me about people who make wild claims.
         
         
         
         I would disagree on this point. There is nothing positive about letting ego drive you to overstep the bounds  and claim knowledge and truth that are not yours to claim. I don't see a positive side to embracing a belief that makes a person feel more loved or important to a higher power than they consider others to be embraced. And there is nothing positive in claiming powers that are not turned to the service of the greater good.
         
         
         
         I agree. But, I doubt a spiritual search would be conducted on an online forum. We are simply conversing. The OP wasn't a question on God, it was a question on why some people want to play God. I don't consider that to be a salvo lobbed at the heavens.

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            brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            "The Dali lama and Mother Teresa never claimed to know God. Neither claimed the ability to speak in his stead, or perform miracles"
            
            Dali lama was not a born again christian and neither was mother teresa.
            catholics do not have a relationship with God they just spend their whole lives trying to make God happy about them. They don't even claim to know who or what God is like.
            The dali lama is not god based but human biology based
            http://www.dalailama.com/webcasts/post/ … commitment     you might find this interesting.
            
            Certainly these two are not the most enlightened in my opinion.
            
            "There is nothing positive about letting ego drive you to overstep the bounds  and claim knowledge and truth that are not yours to claim"
            
            Indeed, but it is a trap that many fall snare to. It creeps up on you and enters the thought process easily. Many people just automatically serve ego even though they claim differently. True humility comes from serving something higher than self and humility is ultimately a work of the God of the bible, if one stays connected to the vine at all times.
            
            "I don't see a positive side to embracing a belief that makes a person feel more loved or important to a higher power than they consider others to be embraced."
            
            This is why God said: "love the lord your God with ALL your heart, soul and mind".   It keeps the pride factor away. Its also an absolute truth - one of many in the bible.
            
            Its all about God. When God works a work in humans its an efficient work. But who can stand up to this? This is why many people right off the bat make their own God - its easy and easier to follow. When God starts to dig the pride out of a person, it hurts and it takes a constant vigil to not feel puffed up when things start going spiritually great. Oh look at me... easy trap. This is also why God put an end to 'salvation by works' because in this scenario, pride has a wide doorway to enter into.

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      Virgil Newsomeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The problem with most people is that they don't believe in God.  Before one can find God, they must firs t believe He is real.  Many would rather make jokes and mock believers than to find out if they are telling the truth.  They use trigger words which cause doubt such as sky fairies, sky daddy, invisble friends, etc. . .   It is a type of propaganda used not to convince but to unconvince, if you know what I mean.
      
      I am not accusing you of using this type of behavior.  I am not sure what your beliefs are but you seem to be agnostic to me. 
      
      
      
      
      
      I know the truth, but I do not know all truth.  One problem I have is that you mix the Bible and Koran together and esteem them both the same.  God is God and no one can change that.  He is not a God who cannot be found, unless he has hidden Himself from you.
      
      Many may be unable to find God because He has turned them over to reprobate minds, though I don't know anyone personally in such a position. 
      
      People do things for many reasons, but in the case you mentioned it is because of greed more than anything else.

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         paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         If you mean by god here Jesus to be god; he was never a god; he himself never believed he was a god; the Creator God is whom Jesus prayed to and addressed Him as God-the-Father.

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      kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The better question is how can you know the difference between those who have know Truth and God vs who doesn't.
      
      For if to you all who claims such knowledge is arrogant then for you it is impossible for you to believe that anyone can.....and yourself included.
      
      For the one with the knowledge cannot do anything else but declare it.
      
      The first question can only be answered by this ....those without the knowledge will never know....it not that they are exclude indefinitely but unless they have seen and know Truth they cannot even begin to know.
      
      For it is still an impossibility for rhe ignorance to be rhe judge of knowledge...
      
      
      .I have already shown you the way why wont you walk in it that you may understand?

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         couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I understand exactly what you're saying.  It can't be explained to those not ready to receive.

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      A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Brainwashed.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         So, it is your contention that those who think they are God actually had someone brainwash them; to think that they were God? I don't buy it. I know plenty of humble believers who simply love God, attempt to live a good life and don't claim they know anything special, or can perform miraculous acts.
         
         If I was going to accuse anyone of being brainwashed; it would be the humble. Not the ones arrogantly running around attempting to convince others they know the mind  and can move the hand of God.

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            A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Some are just more brainwashed than others and we can observe to what lengths and breadths their actions will take them, but we certainly can't predict what that will be. Some will believe they are God while others will believe they are humble followers.

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               Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Who knows. But, any philosophy that instills humility, first and foremost, can't be a bad thing.

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                  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Such a philosophy, if followed, would not see people evangelizing.

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                     Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     True. Those weren't among the humble ones I have met.

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                        A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        More importantly, the Christian philosophy is to evangelize, to perpetuate the cult. Nothing humble about that.

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                           brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Evangelism not a point of humbleness.
                           Humbleness and sharing the gospel of God are not connected, except that we do it in meekness and lowliness of spirit.
                           Evangelism is to happen because obviously, God wants more followers and God is great! Who wouldn't want to share 'good news'.
                           
                           Humbleness is the way in which we are to evangelize, not the reason we do it.
                           
                           LoL

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                              Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Yes. lol. You just don't get it, and stopped trying somewhere along the way.

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                              A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Yes, I know, it's selfishness.
                              
                              
                              
                              LOL! Good one!
                              
                              
                              
                              Then, you shouldn't be surprised that evangelism causes conflicts and wars, just like history has shown us.
                              
                              
                              
                              Another good one!

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      couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Emile - maybe they know something you don't.  There are many people in this world who have seen things many others can't even imagine.  They are on a higher level of conciousness.  So what.  Why dis them?

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Well, if you are willing to believe God is telling people to tell other people that to not believe them is a death sentence for your soul, that is your right.
         
         If you are ready to believe that people can perform miracles and they do them for personal parlor tricks, that is your right.
         
         I choose not to.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      According to who? Definitely not you Emile.

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      aka-djposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You missed the point somewhat.
      Where do you put those who no longer seek Him, but have FOUND Him, (and TRUTH in Him)?
      
      I'd say, these have every reason to propagate the truth.
      After all, a (true) Christian will point other's to Jesus Christ (ONLY)
      
      For the rest, keep searching, I say!

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Oh dj. I do like you, so very much; except for comments such as that. I think the idea of God is much too large to box into one ideology, one religion, one anything.
         
         I've noticed that Dave enjoys pointing out that he is unique. That is true of everyone. Why must everyone who has embraced a religion assume that everyone was meant to embrace the same; or even do the same?
         
         It's the same across the board in society. Conform, conform, conform. The human mind isn't designed for that. I guess that's one difference in people. The religious fear diversity and call it evil. There are many of us who believe that, if all things come from God; then all that is belongs to him.
         
         To rail against realty from a religious stance is the greatest absurdity of life.

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            aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I'm not getting into this discussion, but I will say that you (and your father) should look into 'RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story' It's on YouTube and tells of how tincture of cannabis has been very successful in curing cancer.
            
            Nothing religious about it at all, just the observations of a Canadian guy who found he could help people, and now has to stay out of Canada because the authorities hounded him out of town.
            
            I hope your father can beat this, I know cancer can be beaten, provided that the cure does not weaken one to death.
            
            May you find peace in this difficult situation.
            
            John

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            brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            "I think the idea of God is much too large to box into one ideology, one religion, one anything".
            
            That is odd, because the God of the OT did not think that and neither did Jesus. So how does your thinking become better than theirs??? (these are the two most enlightened beings in the galaxy) or is this the pride you backhandedly discuss in your topic - to think you don't need to find God because you know better than God? 
            
            I've noticed that Dave enjoys pointing out that he is unique. That is true of everyone.
            
            Dave is an ex-catholic so cut him some slack he has come a long way  no disrespect Dave - congratulations again.
            
            "Why must everyone who has embraced a religion assume that everyone was meant to embrace the same; or even do the same"?
            
            Beliefs, no matter what they are always put up walls. I can believe that cocoa puffs is the best cereal around and someone who doesn't believe that is on the outside of my belief system. That's just the way believing in some/anything goes.
            Often when someone does not believe the same and counters that belief, well, no one wants to be wrong so they get defensive; or, if the believer has excellent knowledge and experience and quite persuasive evidence (to the born again believer - relationship) they want to enlighten the other(s). Also when someone has found a 'pearl of great price' they naturally are excited and so they share. The list is long on this subject.
            
            
            "It's the same across the board in society. Conform, conform, conform. The human mind isn't designed for that".
            
              How do you know? Except that maybe you are putting this conformity 100% in all areas of humanness. Conformity occurs in humans equally, arbitrarily in certain areas of life. How do you know that enlightenment or good teaching will not cause conformity? If Jesus returns tomorrow and descends out of the clouds of heaven, will you not conform to christianity then? and if you, then not others? indeed all the world? Your inferred non conformity theory i do not conform with.
            
            "I guess that's one difference in people. The religious fear diversity and call it evil".
            
            Nice inference, incorrect of course. We do not fear diversity. Where do you get that from? Diversity exists.... I just phoned 10 christian brothers and asked them if they fear diversity - they all said NO, so i won't criticize your silly claim further.
            
            "There are many of us who believe that, if all things come from God; then all that is belongs to him".
            
            so if all things belong (that is to say, that he owns all things) to God then God can do whatever God wants with what belongs to him. Where do you want to go further with this belief?
            
            "To rail against reality from a religious stance is the greatest absurdity of life".
            
            This is your opinion again. Where did you get this from?
            Jesus said "we must love the lord God with all our hearts, soul and minds". Is this then reality? so to rail against this reality is absurd and yet God created a way to him. So there must be a way to God if we are to love God. Is this not reality also? so to rail against this reality is also absurd.
            

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               Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I've removed the bold from your words, because they really aren't bold; when read. I don't consider myself better, or wiser, than a deity. But, as I've said before, no religion has a monopoly on the concept. No matter how arrogantly you all insist that you do.
               
               
               
               Your constant insults to catholicism really do grow old.
               
               
               
               Belief. BO. Is belief. Not knowledge. And it negates the ability to refer to it as wisdom when you attempt to insist it is anything more than belief.
               
               
               
               If. So, if God himself told you you were wrong in your beliefs, what would you do? If God came and told you that Islam was the way. Would you succumb to sharia law? I think, if God appeared, most of us would do our level best to follow his will, as long as we could.
               
               
               
               No, christians such as yourself wouldn't fear diversity, as long as it didn't deviate greatly from all that you insist everyone needs to conform to.
               
               
               
               Definitely not down an egotistical and irreverent path. Never a path that puts my belief on a pedestal above others. Never a belief that says I win and others lose.
               
               
               
               Reality is what it is, BO. To claim God advised you on a car purchase, or that he talks to you and guides your belief (which is in direct contrast to the belief of another who makes the same claim) is also a realty. I don't consider all of the lies of religion to be a strike against the possibility that God exists. I consider it a validation of my belief that you don't know one.

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                  brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  "no religion has a monopoly on the concept. No matter how arrogantly you all insist that you do"
                  
                  Thanks for proving my point.
                  
                  "Belief. BO. Is belief. Not knowledge. And it negates the ability to refer to it as wisdom when you attempt to insist it is anything more than belief."
                  
                  So there is no knowledge in ones belief? And one belief cannot be wise?
                  Honestly i think you just make stuff up because you hate the idea that anyone has more on the go than you do.
                  
                  "If. So, if God himself told you you were wrong in your beliefs"
                  Like many Christians Gods voice is something i do hear. If i was told my belief was wrong i would challenge God in discussion and then allow myself to be persuaded. Your example of sharia law is completely preposterous. 
                  
                  "if God appeared, most of us would do our level best to follow his will, as long as we could"
                  
                  He did appear as jesus but time went by and people chose to disbelieve.  Yet if God appeared today.. and then 50yrs down the road would another appearance be needed? I give this scenario 3 yawns.
                  
                  "No, christians such as yourself wouldn't fear diversity, as long as it didn't deviate greatly from all that you insist everyone needs to conform to."
                  
                  BS. I have no fear of diversity. Diversity happened but the bible still says what the bible says from OT to revelations. Its not my idea, but Gods idea, in fact, He insists on it.
                  
                  "Definitely not down an egotistical and irreverent path. Never a path that puts my belief on a pedestal above others. Never a belief that says I win and others lose".
                  
                  Maybe you need more confidence then. Not arrogance or ego but confidence. The kind of confidence that has actual belief behind it. That actually has some solid foundation. Many people have their own ideas but don't let them out because they know, they are just their ideas. I don't follow my ideas. You can read them for yourself.
                  
                  Reality is experience. Those who experience God have a grasp of the only reality there is. The car that God directs me to buy is not the same car that God directs someone else to buy. You have no validation except what you make up because after all you made up your theories and they are unsuccessful because you don't know God and have theorized that others do not either. That's not reality that's delusion.

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      Jeff Berndtposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Didn't know he was missing?

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Well, whether he exists or not; is missing or not; would be a matter of opinion. We all have access to the same information. We process it differently. I would never presume to comment on someone's claim of simple belief. But if they claim God speaks to them, or through them or they know something spiritual for fact.....I don't think 'put up or shut up' is an unreasonable request.
         
         I well admit it was somewhat rude, though.

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       pennyofheavenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Sharing experiences and knowledge (without experience) is natural.
       
       Experience and knowledge however are two very different things.

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          Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Well stated. Spiritual experience and knowledge are worlds apart (literally). We do all experience moments where we can't tell the difference. I guess some more than others.

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   lone77starposted 12 years ago

   Good point, Emile.
   
   That's part of the problem of "faith" and "belief."
   
   The dictionary offers a pretty wimpy definition of faith, at least when you compare it to what was required by Peter when he walked on water, and by the many disciples who went to the various towns to work miracles before Yehoshua finished his mission. Faith by that usage would likely mean "perfect confidence."
   
   No confidence can be perfect unless it comes from a position of creation (cause), rather than perception (effect).
   
   The purpose of religion is one of regaining that position of perfect confidence, but the only way to achieve it is through humility.
   
   And there's the problem. How do you tell the difference between humble confidence (perfect faith) and arrogance?
   
   It's not easy, granted. That's why each of us needs to develop our own ability to "see" such things for what they are, rather than what we "think" they are.
   
   Such ability does not come easily.
   
   So, who are you to decide who is being arrogant and who is merely being divinely confident? There is a big difference and I don't have it all figured out myself, and I've been working on it for six decades (this lifetime, at least).
   
   And @Disappearinghead, I have to agree with you, too. Those with "hidden" wisdom they don't share even when you sincerely want to know, that's pretty frustrating.
   
   Sometimes I don't share what I've discovered simply because the audience is a bunch of jerks who laugh and cackle at any wisdom. I'm glad you two don't fit into that category. I would call their brand of skepticism pure arrogance. So, I don't bother casting any of the few pearls I've gathered -- at least not for them.
   
   Searching for God
   
   Perhaps about 58 years ago, I would have searched for God to get the power. Pieces of that selfish linger even today. It's hard to shake it. The mind is not has controllable as we would like. Distractions and temptations are too easy.
   
   From my own experience, we are each a bit like God in many respects, only we've forgotten so much. The biblical references are Genesis 1:26 and John 10:34 -- created in His image and "ye are gods." Being able to see without my Homo sapiens body is quite a trip. And opening up traffic on Wilshire Boulevard simply by asking shows the power available to us when we know how to ask.
   
   Humility is the key. So much inspiration is possible from this viewpoint. But then ego wants to get involved and it's tough for someone like me to maintain the humility. But again, "divine confidence" is not "arrogance."
   
   I've met a few who could really tell the difference, but they had just about mastered their own egos. A couple of them were Tibetan Buddhist monks.

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      Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I think we both know you misstated on at least one thing. I have cackled. And I'll tell you why. It's because I know there are always those in the position I find myself in.
      
      I just found out my Dad has two masses on his brain and one on a lung and they don't know the source of the cancer. I would absolutely love to know that someone could do something. Someone could produce a miracle to make it go away. Someone could tell me it was going to be all right. They can't. Reality tells me I have to hope for the best, but resolve to prepare to maintain my dignity if it is determined to be the worst.
      
      Those who claim knowledge or the ability to perform miracles are an affront to those who believe themselves to be in need of one.

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         brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         And here we have the situation of not being in the right camp. You have your stance about God, who he is and what he does and yet you do not know God. Had you have put aside your own ideas and listened to the counsel of the gospel, you might have seen your miracle today.
         
         But instead perhaps a part of you blames God for this cancer and yet you set your perceptions from being in the wrong camp. Your hope stems from you and nothing else. Perhaps God was waiting for you and hoping you might listen to some of what his people said on here and changed your life, but your hope does not stem from Him because you did not listen and were not teachable, nor open to persuasion.
         
         So you think why does this cancer exist, perhaps solely for a miracle, but now if God had never caused it to be you would never have found yourself knowing and still would be unchanged, so you get to see it but unconverted and in the wrong camp, reality is doing all it can for you.
         
         Sorry to hear about your dilemma.

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            Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            You know nothing. Absolutely less than nothing. How dare you presume to think you know what I think on the subject of illness. I don't blame anything other than environment and genetics. Your hateful idea of what a god will do to people is simply your hateful ideas.
            
            I used to pity you. My opinion of you has dropped considerably after rereading your post.
            
            I just read your post to my husband. He's pretty sure that, if hell exists, you'll get the grand tour.

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               brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               im sure you think that way and that you'll probably rant for days about it, not my intention however and i am sure your opinion will drop, but sorry to say, i am unchanged about whatever that level gets too.
               
               You see, you have ideas and have formed theories that are just entirely rebukable on many levels, flawed with holes that a truck can drive through, so why should i worry about your opinion? Only because God loves you and if reading my posts gets you all bothered, well that is really your doing. I just tell the truth from a christian perspective, whether you find it loving or not is really not my decision.
               
               God doesn't always put these things there, you should notice i said PERHAPS, but, God always CAN remove these things. You may have to re-read without the anger.
               
               Just pointing out what comfort your path brings to you in the hopes you may find something that works better to console you in your time of need.

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                  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Just so you know. I read the first part of your post, no more. Ranting for days about anything serves no purpose.. I was quite disappointed that someone who claims belief in God could be so woefully misguided and so very far away from the love, reason and compassion that would surely be the essence of God; but I live in the real world. You are what you have revealed yourself to be. That's diversity. You certainly have that right.  I have no need to forgive a wrong that was never done. My perception allowed your words to hurt me. So, I'll simply forget everything you said.

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                     aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     For what it is worth I think we all have times when we deserve time out, and you deserve some time out so that you can come to terms with what your fathers condition means to you and your family, so no slick replies from me on this matter.
                     
                     I am sorry that Bro did not use this opportunity to show love and concern rather than scriptural reference, no matter how relevant we may think things are, nor how relevant they may be, there are some times when it is best to simply send a hug and leave well alone.
                     
                     John

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                        Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I do believe it is sad that the moments that matter, the ones that give us the opportunity to show what, ultimately, our vision of God is; many who claim a relationship will show a vision of a callous and sick minded being.
                        
                        I appreciate your post. We definitely disagree on many things, but I've always believed our core ideas of who that deity would appear to be are one in the same. I would imagine you rejoicing to find that you were wrong and God embraces all. Some others? I honestly think they would feel cheated to find they don't get to watch the rest of us burn.

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                           aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           I will go this far Emile, to state that (with no scriptural substance) I believe that in the split second between life and death, God reaches out to all of His creation and shows them the truth, and that they even then have that moment to accept His invitation.
                           
                           God has infinite time to show someone their errors and offer them repentance, and can make what to us is a split second last as long as it needs to.
                           
                           My father found his peace with God in the last hours of his life, I watched over him for ten days when he was dying, it taught me much about death and more about living.
                           
                           It was a harrowing privilege to experience.
                           
                           May all be well with you and yours.
                           
                           PS Just given some scriptural substance to back my thoughts....
                           
                           
                           Matthew 20
                           
                           FOR THE kingdom of heaven is like the owner of an estate who went out in the morning along with the dawn to hire workmen for his vineyard.
                           After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
                           And going out about the third hour (nine o'clock), he saw others standing idle in the marketplace;
                           And he said to them, You go also into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will pay you. And they went.
                           He went out again about the sixth hour (noon), and the ninth hour (three o'clock) he did the same.
                           And about the eleventh hour (five o'clock) he went out and found still others standing around, and said to them, Why do you stand here idle all day?
                           They answered him, Because nobody has hired us. He told them, You go out into the vineyard also and you will get whatever is just and fair.
                           When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his manager, Call the workmen and pay them their wages, beginning with the last and ending with the first.
                           And those who had been hired at the eleventh hour (five o'clock) came and received a denarius each.
                           Now when the first came, they supposed they would get more, but each of them also received a denarius.
                           And when they received it, they grumbled at the owner of the estate,
                           Saying, These [men] who came last worked no more than an hour, and yet you have made them rank with us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the day.
                           But he answered one of them, Friend, I am doing you no injustice. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
                           Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this man hired last the same as I give to you.
                           Am I not permitted to do what I choose with what is mine? [Or do you begrudge my being generous?] Is your eye evil because I am good?
                           So those who [now] are last will be first [then], and those who [now] are first will be last [then].
                           
                           Many do have evil eyes when God does good.

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                              Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              I look to that same scripture when religionists are screaming condemnation. But, no worries. My father is a good man, by all accounts. A good christian man, by those who use the same measuring stick you do. And a human being who should have no fears, by my philosophy. All is well, as it should be. The trials of this life are fleeting. I've never seen much good of an exorbitant amount of time spent wasted in worry.

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   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   Just woke up and going to see the sun rise in a few minutes. Haven't had my coffee yet ...  And this is the first thread I read. Thought provoking by the way!
     A dozen different things jumps into my mind at the same time each struggling to come out first.
       6:30 AM and I'm allready messed up, see what you have done?   HA!
   
      Why do people do it?
   Well. I can't speak for others, but my self?  I do it for the FEEEL Goood factor.   (just kidding ? kinda)
      I think I'll go shut up and drink my coffee ....  and think about it for a few minutes.
   
     Will be back in a while with the One and ONLY correct answer. (NOT)

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      Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for the laugh. I needed one.

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         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I think that I have found the right answer?
         
            We do it for the same reason that a dung beetle chooses what it does for a life long project.
         
            Oops ...   doesn't sound as smart written down, as it did bouncing around in my head.    HA; ...   that answers the question of, why do people say stupid things!

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      mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Morning jerami. Ya know too much of that stuff will stunt yer growth. lol
      Just like too much of my pepsi will has just the opposite affect. danged if we and danged if we don't.
      
      This is a good topic for the morning and like you Jerami, there's so much I want to say but what first?
      
      First and I want to be very clear here. I believe in a Higher Power, some call Him God. I also believe with all my heart mind and soul that this "God" gives me direction every day. I believe He has been what has helped me to overcome many struggles that very easily could have turned out drastic.
      
      Yes, I believe this "God" speaks to us. Personally. He, if we would just be still and listen, gives us guidance for our lives. What He shows me for my life would be of no help for another so why tell them. The key to that is those that know me, KNEW had it not been for the peace that He gave me after losing both parents, both grandparents, a new house, leaving a marriage of 23 years and closing a successful business, I would have been, to say the least, a wreck.
      
      So, thru my life, they have met this God.
      The Bible tells us to test the Spirit.  I have many times done this. Can't say of a single time I have won.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That's a beautiful answer. Thanks for posting it.

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         brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         "for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust
           Luke 12:6   Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
           Luke 12:7   But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows".
         
         There is no such thing as coincidence
         God strives to assist all people whether they know him or not.
         
         We should not boast about how great or good we are when all is a gift from God.

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   paarsurreyposted 12 years ago

   Searching for Truth is searching for God- the Creator whom Jesus used to describe God-the-Father.
   
   Jesus was not a god however.

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   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   And good morning to you
   
     Yep!  and  Nope ....   It already did stunt my growth.
   Hope I get to be addicted to it for another couple of decades. 
   I can see me now ...  all shrivled up hiding behind my coffee cup at the age of eighty something ... trying to remember which drawer the spoons are hidden in, so I can stir the coffee.
      Who hide the sugar?
   
      It does help having faith in something greater than ourselves when we loose someone close to us.
      I think that during a time of lose we can better hear that still quiet voice.

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      PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Do all your words come up mixed with LSD? (just joking!) -You have a style, and I love that style. Good if I could meet you face to face. My style goes a little different though...I am the butterfly saving the beetle in a flight to where?
      
      ...hope you got the first taste of coffee this morning

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         PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         kinda like...

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         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yep!  Coffee pot is dried up.
           It is hard to sit still.
         
           Thanks for the compliment; Didn't know I had a style any diferent that everyone else, though I admitt, ???  what was I going to say?
         
         
             OH yea ....   I guess that I may be bent slightly different.
         
             If you are ever in the neighborhood?  I'd love to have a cup of coffee,glass or bottle of something with YA.
         
            All my riends will tellYa ...   I do like to talk.  a lot!
         
          
         EDIT   it is the one inger typing I'm not so crazy about. Ha Ha

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            PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            If you think, I am really in your neighbourhood - we both have nowhere else to go, except the space between our houses. May be, someday I will find you, without the LSD? 
            
            You talk terrible sense under the cover.

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   PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago

   I am not a good debater, but I often get little intuitions. The thing is, people don't seek truth, but they seek interpretations of what they believe the truth is. Isn't there God inside a human being? Who saw that?
   
   If humanity had the mind to see the truth, we had not had so many religions poking us - religion is our compensation for myopia.

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      Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You are exactly right. We don't want our beliefs shaken up, we want them validated. But, I don't understand why the world can't collectively agree  that the only truth we know for sure is that the variety of religions points to the fact that we don't yet know the universal truth.

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         PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I think it's because having a false belief is easier, than knowing the truth - and changing our lives accordingly. Truth often brings its by-product, which is Revolution. Some people dread that thing.

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            Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            That is a possibility, although I don't consider it to be true. I believe any human who believes themselves privy to a spiritual truth will change their behavior accordingly. The problem comes when some attempt to shove others into their own idea of the truth box.

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         brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Love the lord your God with all your heart soul and mind.
         
         is a universal truth

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   knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

   "Those who want to know God and those who want to be God?" Those who want to know God I believe is called in search of the holy grail. It is always some place else. Those who want to be God would look within themselves. It would be right where you are.

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      Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Having read enough of your posts, I  think I know where you are coming from. And I agree, but only from that perspective.

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   S G Huppposted 12 years ago

   Emile R, I probably wouldn't have posted to this thread if it hadn't been for your post about your father's condition-I can't imagine your current struggle.  Coming from someone who really took the long way home when it comes to religion, I think there always HAVE been two types. I happen to think though, that they are those who seek God and those who seek JUSTIFICATION for their behavior by using God. It's as simple as that.  I have noticed that those who seek justification are the people who have the loudest mouths.  The true spiritual examples are short on talk and long on action.
   
   As for the miracles...I don't think it works that way, regardless of how much you pray.  One of the most infuriating yet well intentioned comments that pop out of peoples mouths in times of tragedy is "everything happens for a reason".
   I hate that and I think it's absolute BS.  I do believe, however that God can help us find reason in the aftermath of tragedy.

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      Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I would never look for reason. Sickness and death are a fact of life. And I posted this thread with a little emotion, simply because I ran across a few posts where people were posturing puffily.
      
      My Dad's a good man and I have no doubt if this turns out to be the worst his future fate is the best fate possible. But, I believe that to be true for all people.
      
      I just don't think people take the time to think through what they are saying. I don't think they truly understand the pain they can cause for others by insisting they have powers in prayer yet it is not within their power to do for others; or that God's love doesn't encompass all. Ego is grand, and it's good to feel good about yourself. But, not at the expense of others.

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         brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I never pray for people unless i discern that God has led me to pray for them and then i ask how should i pray for them?
         
         If God has sent a problem someones way and they say pray for me, shall i then attempt to pray that problem away? Wouldn't that be stymieing the hand of God? When people ask that we pray it does not mean for us to pray as WE would pray but to pray in accordance to the will of God who understands why that problem exists.
         God often does things to bring people to salvation and mostly i have found that this is the way i am to pray for them and not to pray away the situation.

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            Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I would take it as a great courtesy on your part to never, ever, ever respond to a post of mine where my father and his condition are the subject of my post. Because, quite frankly, idiotic statements are not appreciated.

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               brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               OH WELL
               
               My dad is almost entirely blind. I pray that God reveal himself to my dad through this situation. Your situation is not unique.
               
               The truth is out there and you have read so much of it only to reiterate your own theories over and over again. Your mind is made up and there is no changing that. You don't want to learn about christianity you only want to knock it about and even though you thought it was harmless, it isn't.
               The truth of God has always put people on edge and if taken with an open mind, fertile ground, one can see that truth indeed sets people free, but only if they accept it.

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                  LookingForWaldenposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Is this the truth of god?
                  
                      Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.  (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
                  
                  
                  Or do we get to pick what passages to believe in now? I'm so behind in my fundamentalism.

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                     brotheryochananposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I am not sure i follow what point you are trying to make
                     but watch out that verse is loaded with goodness.

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