Jesus was only given to us so that we focus on love.

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   Ericdierkerposted 10 years ago

   Mother Theresa built institutions to relieve pain. Catholics build churches. Martin Luther was charged with reformation. Descarte and Kant charged with logic. Socrates and Plato charged with philosophy. Even I am charged with problem resolution and helping families in trouble.
   
   But Jesus Christ was not charged or commissioned to do anything at all. Think about that!
   
   He had no mandate. Yet His sole purpose became self evident in His life. Lepers and whores and Tax collectors, what a damned crew. Even Sophists (who were the lawyers of time) were welcome to come sit and drink water with this man.
   
   Jesus Christ on this earth only taught one lesson. And He did not do that by preaching He did it by living and then dying. He only taught Love.
   
   You see we cannot focus on things we cannot see. We cannot accept matters that we cannot touch. We do not know energy unless it lights a bulb. So Jesus only came here to help us focus. I hope I have that focus. And I would like you to have it too.

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      Faith Reaperposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      We are to love as Christ loves, but He did not come to only show us about love, as He is love, for He came to pay that high price for our sins as a sacrifice, the lamb of God, so that we may have eternal salvation through Christ Jesus.  He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.  He came to save the whole world as God tells us in His Word.  So, no, he did not "only" come here to help us focus on love.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I believe His sacrifice was out of His and God's love for the world.  Here is the question: If we do not  f o c u s  on what he did for us (out of love) do we get the intended benefit?  ...(which I think is forgiveness and a clean slate, so to speak, resulting in being  psychologically open to receive God's love.)
         
         So often, in despair, people give up on goodness, kindness, respect, acceptance and feelings of self worth etc. They end up loosing hope in the goodness of life and they loose faith in any kind of spiritual reality. These are the inward effects of their own misdeeds and/or the treatment they have received from others. These experiences cast a negative outlook within the psyche of the poor soul....cynicism, sarcasm, revenge, depression and further downward spiraling. Without the focus Eric mentions, can one find the relief/salvation one needs?

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            wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            John 3:16, yes.
            
            But He did not give his son to the world; only loaned him for the blink of an eye and took him back.  Does that not make you wonder if He did not love the world, but only liked it a little bit?  Or even had some other completely different reason for the loan?  Do you not question what is reported as being God's innermost thoughts?

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I agree, wilderness. To get the benefit of His Forgiveness and to be "redeemed", we need to be able to get it in real time.
               Can we?
               How?

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                  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Can we?    Unknown.
                  How?         Unknown.
                  
                  While others claim to possess that knowledge, they lie; they can only possess opinion.  Even the words in John provide no knowledge as they, too, could be either mistaken or a lie just as the first half of the verse is shown to be, at best, a half-truth.

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                     Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     But I think John or his writer, were trying to get across a point. I am only 55, maybe I will figure out John and the Johns and who the heck was Jesus' brother by 70.
                     But the books of John are dynamic and real. Better than any hub I ever wrote. There is something there that makes you feel like he is real.

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               Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Brother Wilderness --- truth be in your words. We must question all of it. My sons question me constantly. I would not want it otherwise for they are fine sons who love and help others.I question my Father always. For if I do not question how can I learn. Socrates and Plato come to mind. All of the old testament shows those who question. That is right and good.
               Mano o Mano I think that even though God made Jesus man, He left open and did not complete the sentence so that we would question.
               A lot of people want answers tied up neatly in a bow on a present from Macy's. I do not. For if I had all the answers when I laid down in my meadow at night and gazed at the heavens, what wonder would there be?

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                  wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I we had all the answers we would not only lose the wonder of living, but the free will that makes living worthwhile.  With all the answers, the best course of action becomes obvious and will always be taken; no free will is left.
                  
                  Some have forgotten how to question, some are fearful of true questions - afraid that an honest question and answer might destroy their carefully crafted reality.
                  
                  Always, always question.

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                     Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Wilderness this point is not important.       It is real life. It is the point of all our lives.  It is so important it is more than important. We must question every thing we see ---- always. Sometimes I get tired. And I do not want to question or be questioned. So I go and put a bucket of ice in the sink and bury my head in it. Then my wife says "are you ok/" and my daughter calls up and says "are you trying to figure out the String Theory again?"
                     When I stop God will give up on me. Whoever the Hell God is,,,,, enough

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                        wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        All true, but I would add that learning is fun, and we can't learn by passively accepting everything we hear as gospel. 
                        
                        It may be flattering to have a young child accept what we tell them as absolute truth, but we do them no favors by teaching them to simply accept without question.

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                           gmwilliamsposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           Definitely, the mark of maturity and intelligence is to always question and to seek.  One should not unquestioningly and blindly follow any principle, ethos, or doctrine.  People who unquestioningly and blindly adhere to anything are extremely malleable people who can be easily exploited. The movers and shakers of the world were the ones who always questioned things and refused to go on with the prevailing societal status quo.

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                              Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              And in fact laying apart all the religious dogma. That is what Buddha did. And what Christ did and what Ghandi did and what both Martin Luthers did. They are all servants of the higher notion of higher conscientiousness.
                              We must learn to be a part of by being an antagonist of.

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                     Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Maybe...the true crafter of reality is the crafter of our selves. Therefore, It must know more than we do. Therefore, we don't have to work so hard crafting our own realities. We just need to be open to that crafty Crafter.

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            Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Kathryn, how beautiful are your words and thoughts.Written eloquently and with just that open mind to question that gives us the spice of life.
            If the lenses of our glasses are tinted in anger, and greed and self absorption how could we ever know love. And if they are tinted in love and devotion to helping others and hugging from the inside out, how can they not see God?
            I say Amen, Sister

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I like this answer.

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         Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Faith thank you. Of course your point is very accurate.
         
         But focus here. His way, His crucifixion, His saving Grace, His death and resurrection --- What was the point?  Was it some mechanical law stuff? All of that is to get us to focus. His life here was not an "if this then that" concept. The fancy words and the quotations and the miracles have one purpose. It is not like a "get out of jail free card". It is not like He did it so we have a free pass at never ending life --- He could do that with the wave of one hand or the blink of an eye.
         No Jesus, God and the Holy spirit did not need to come here to acquire our souls. This can be done by God at any time in any place and for anyone. Christ did not need to suffer to save us --- He is God. He suffered for our sake not for His or to gain our admittance. You are putting the cart before the horse. He came here to teach us love. He did not need to come here to save us, He could have done that from the desert behind a rock. God does not need to suffer. We need to see God. So that we understand His love.
         Click your fingers and make Volcanoes explode, click them again and make dinosaurs come and then go and make the Grand Canyon and Mt. Everest. That is not even a tiny piece of God.
         God did and does not have to pay for our sins. He needs to show us His love. Jesus did not need to suffer so that He somehow got the power to save us. He saved 2,000 years ago. Because He is Love.

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         Seafarer Mamaposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         His sacrifice was His ultimate act of Love.....and if he came to save everyone, then most people are not going to hell, as lots of evangelical Christians seem to think and want to preach (not thinking this of you, Faith Reaper).

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      Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Pfffft. Nope.
      
      Mother Theresa built institutions to get off on other peoples' pain. Suffering and torment absolutely fascinated her, and so her "relief centers" offered no relief whatsoever.

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         Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         We need proof,  Zelkiiro.

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            Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               what! I learned this from you. You think we do not grow from our experiences here on hP?  It is the benefit of this site! 
               Gosh.

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         Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I can just feel the hate. Zeikiro. Express it and lose some, at least I hope.

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         tsmogposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         To "get off on pain" would be assigning a common colloquialism referring either directly to sadism or sadomasochism. Both would be administering pain to receive the benefit of pleasure. In its purest sense there is not any commonly thought sexual connotation. Simply, the benefit is with the complexity of the neural network, i.e. neurotransmitters, synapses, receptors, hormones, and etc. as well as the distinction of the subcortical and cortical regions of the brain and a means of stimulus.
         
         Today, thought is those regions offering pleasure through neurotransmitters such as dopamine, serotonin, and Epinephrine has a greater propensity to be driven by the sustaining mechanism or the factor of motivation offering the greatest benefit of pleasure rather than the event itself. In other words the chase is the source of the greatest pleasure and not the capture or obtainment of the prize. Today's studies with computer gaming offers the most conclusive evidence offering support for that theory. Reduction drive theory relating closely with homeostasis presents more studies as that theory is revived with a change in application, while still explaining motivation or the mechanism for the "chase."
         
         Empathy is being researched very extensively today. In short empathic capacity or abilities is actually experiencing another or a group of others emotions. Pain is an emotion and not a sense. The sense are of five specific and one unexplained, even though controversial is widely accepted. Touch, taste, sight, hearing, and smell being the five and the "sixth sense" studied on many differing planes of scientific disciplines currently and in the past by esteemed learning institutions, private enterprise, and governments too.
         
         Those emotions are interpretative either innately through the limbic system or cognitively through the cerebrum system. The learned process of relieving those experienced emotions of others is the key you seem to be presenting with Mother Teresa. The question is was she so extensively developed with a capacity as an empathic and having socialized skills through years of training as within a religious order and its disciplines gifted, blessed, endowed with opportunity for creating a process for the healing of others?
         
         In other words she did know from more years of experience as an empathic than many even lived. Possibly social engineers may attribute loosely the presumed motivation as a character flaw rather than observing the effect with those proactive and positive aspects. The age old question becomes did the end justify the means? Could she have sought teaching a method of learning of these innate abilities that may have been buried through those endeavors of social engineers seeking dominance of an ideal while discounting what actually is a "bare bones" approach to problem resolution for the much more misfortunate, i.e. lacking in education, higher social amenities, and possible economic structure?
         
         I offer I may agree with the premise of your assertion, however I believe it is flawed with the innuendos that were presented. Science may explain easily dimensions of spirituality and even religion offering a sense of miracles produced as only fact and not of fiction, yet that does  not discount the character of the person presenting a casual action of good will. Either causing through motivation and different means a presumed miracle to naturally occur or the nurturing of those same attributes of scientifically explained innate and social skills as a component of any person hood, though untapped or unrecognized is not a negative attribute.
         
         As always place disclaimer here that this is only an opinion based on personal experience, studies, and social interactions of varying levels. 
         
         tim

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            Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Our perceptions can be minutely dissected and discerned. But for the most part -- most man does not try to be acutely aware of what causes those perceptions. I am not suggesting we are cattle. But I guess I kind of am, mia culpa.
            What man needed back then and apparently still today are sound bites to invigorate thoughts. I only know of one constant and ever reaching societal truth --- and that is love. Hate is out there but not everywhere. Pain/suffering is out there but not everywhere. Hunger, hope, desire, lust, and charity are all out there but not everywhere. Love exists everywhere. To my understanding that would be omnipotent. And it would be Alpha and Omega.
            So my point here is that Love-"God" is everywhere. Christ in all aspects simply pointed that out. Truth/fiction, metaphor, allegory/parable..... It don't matter.
            His essence makes us focus on Love. And if it does something else, that my friends is very curious.

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      celafoeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      eric-- another falsehood.--   Jesus was charged with a mission, contrary to your FALSE statement.   He not only charged, he was BORN to a purpose.   He was charged with the awesome responsibility of being the atonement of all that would accept His atonement for being the one to die for their sins.  He came to shed His blood , the only acceptable sacrifice.
      How can you possibly say He did not have a charge when that is what most of the bible is about.   Apparently even with all the talk you do about love you have NO understanding of what real love is.    I rebuke you for this false statement.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Can I rebuke you for talking drivel and divisive nonsense? You clearly have no understanding of what real love is either if you believe that psychopathic biblical stuff.

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            Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            ...whose side are you on?

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               Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               The side of reason. What a shame there are sides huh? Your religion always does that.

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                  Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  So with no religion we would not have sides. Which is better no sides or no belief in God? Without belief in God, who loves us, what force is there to check anger? What force is there to check expectation of what is logical and the frustration of not getting what is logical... and this frustration often results in anger. It is hard on the nervous system to be angry all the time.
                  ( Anger taxes the nerves, heart, brain... and we only have one nervous system.) I am not opposed to religion or any religion. At the core of every religion is the same message: There is a God and He loves us.
                  Just sharing, Mark.
                  
                  
                  
                  P.S. Sorry, but we are not completely logical beings. Not even Mister Spock was completely logical, (being part human!)

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                     Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Please stop making stuff up. Prove to me that believing in an Invisible Majikal Super Being checks anger first before asking those sort of questions.Not a big fan of history either I take it?

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                        Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        We find in Plato's Republic and in Descartes and in Wittgenstein that the logic of anger is futile. Hitler tried it and did quite well. Pol Pot liked it as did Mao.
                        Let me make something up: I am happy and productive and I take care of about a dozen people in the physical. I take care of another 30 to 100 in the spiritual.
                        Who do you take care of as you condemn me for believing?

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                           Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes, the logic of anger is futile. Unless you understand anger. Which you clearly don't. Anger serves a very useful purpose.
                           
                           Odd - I was backing you up, and the text you quoted was not directed at you. Oh well........ LOL
                           
                           Not interested in a pissing contest over who is the better person - sorry - I know you Christians are big fans of that.

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         Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Celafoe you must write more often. And you must rebuke me. I teach a Gospel that is different than yours.
         How could God be charged with a mission? What numbbrain came up with that? How could Christ who is Alpha and Omega and Omnipotent be "born"?
         God being born is the funniest of all things. What now? are you going to tell me He was actually tempted. Or maybe you will tell me that Satan actually had some power to tempt my Lord. Oh really!!!?
         Jesus was put here to show us. Not to be a lame nut like the rest of us. The crucifixion did not give Him more power ----- That would mean God is not omnipotent --- I cannot ever fathom that notion. My God does not need your permission or witness for His greatness. My God does not need to die for He cannot.
         Christ's reign on earth was for you ,,, not for Him. Christ did not need to be born and made man for His powers He did that for ours.
         A wave of a single finger, a blink of an eye a one millisecond thought for God can relieve me of my sins.
         You are church taught -- I am God taught.
         Do you really think that God is so weak that He needed to come here to save us?  Wow!!!! He came here to show us.

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            Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Give it a while Eric. The next logical step after seeing what nonsense Christianity is - is to stop believing altogether.

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               Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Because you lost a believing gene. Those of us with it are less than you? I do not get it Mark. We believe and you cannot so that makes us defective? Or does it make you defective? I have no answer. But it seems we have a positive where you only have a negative. We tithe to make sure pantries are filled and Thursday and Monday folks can come for food who have not enough.
               Should I go out back and get a stick? And whip myself for I am bad and you are all knowledgeable? Because you lack empathy and love does not make us bad to have it.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Please stop lying about me. I never said you were defective or less that me. I see the self righteousness keeps bubbling up. Like I said - not interested in a pissing contest over who is the better person. I get that you think you are a better person than me. This is why your religion causes so much conflict.
                  
                  This is kind of funny. I was actually sticking up for you and the quote you took was directed at some one else. Oh well......

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                     Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Do you know even === that you just slammed me. My whole point was not judging. Let me make this as clear as a bell.
                     
                     I DO NOT HAVE A RELIGION, I study and teach them and I have funny college degrees that make me --- perhaps --- more capable of understanding religion. But to a Christian religion must be oxymoronic.
                     How could a man who follows a man that died at the hands of religion have a religion??? We are charged not to believe in dogma or catechism. We are charged to believe in love. The Dali Lama is exiled from His home.
                     Jesus, Buddha, Cochise had no place to lay their head that was called home. There is no pew that I can rest in. These things are of man and not of love.

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                        Mark Knowlesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Not judging? LOL

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            celafoeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            yes you teach a DIFFERENT gospel, it is surely not THE GOSPEL of Jesus Christ.
            Gal 1:6-9   I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
            
            your true colors are now shown.   You are god taught for sure but not taught by The God of the bible.    You are clearly a false teacher

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               Kathryn L Hillposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               We can all drink from the same cup as Jesus.

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                  Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  True that. Our differences are dogma not love

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               Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Oh Celafoe you live by an avatar name. Is the Lord too bright for you to face Him as yourself?
               I pray each day for you. That your wisdom be not gathered from a book but from your relationship with our Lord. He has told me to be patient and kind and that wrath is his alone.
               But Celafoe you do not use your real name. And so how can Jesus even know you and your heart. You mock those us who stand naked and ourselves before Lord hiding behind a falsehood of who you really are.
               I am a son and my name is Eric Dierker and I stand ashamed but will not cover with a leaf. For He knows all but you hide behind a false name that you are not Baptized with. You are not John because you try to hide who you are. John taught us to be baptized unto the Lord and accept that we are his children ------- you deny your baptismal name and call yourself a Christian and say that I baptized by the Spirit are not worthy to be Christian. Yet you do not even go by your Christian name.
               Falsity is within you.

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                  celafoeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  as usual you talk in riddles and know not what you speak of.   That is my real name.    Jesus knows me and my heart very well and the Holy Spirit is my teacher,      the one you hear from does not know me nor will he.   Please do not pray for me . when you put Jesus in a comparison to dahli lama and buddha  that is certainly proof that you do not serve the Jesus I do.

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               wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               No, he teaches a different gospel than the one you perceive from reading the bible.
               
               A not uncommon reaction: "If you don't interpret the 2,000 year, much translated, writings of the bible as I do then you are wrong and are a tool of Satan".  A reaction that promotes a great deal of distrust in both believers and non-believers, unfortunately.

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                  celafoeposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Jesus was certainly right when He said He came not to bring peace but a division between His believers and all others

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                     wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     "His believers".  People that believe in him as Lord and most of whom try to live their lives as they think He meant them to.
                     
                     Seems that something, whether Jesus or not, has divided those believers into a thousand different camps, all hating every one else as tools of the devil and all declaring that only they know His truth.
                     
                     Which is pretty much what I said, isn't it?

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   Beth37posted 10 years ago

   "Jesus was only given to us so that we focus on love...."
   
   and to make a way for salvation for mankind. No one else could have done this.

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   getitriteposted 10 years ago

   Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament.....Love?!

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   kenshinnayrposted 10 years ago

   faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love..

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      Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      By Golly darn it to tarnation, hell's bells and cocker shells. --- hihihihi That is how my Grandpa Jack cussed.
      I use it because the deal is really not complicated::::: Faith, Hope and Love, and the greatest of these is in abundance if we practice it and Love one another.

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   Gypsy Rose Leeposted 10 years ago

   Never lose my faith. Jesus taught us to love unconditionally and to look upon one another as He did equally. God bless.

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