what is the origin of god?
We all worship god and follow the path shown from a religion. I amconfused confused, what is the origin of religion? Which one is the predecessor god or religion? Was god a man or a woman, who started gaining popularity due to his speeches or magical actions. And, then the world started worshiping in fear? We follow religion because of god or we follow god because of religion?
"Religion" can be traced back to half a million years ago with ritualistic burials with the belief in an afterlife.
Organized religions date back to about 11,000 years ago with small bands of people that had basic supernatural beliefs.But when those supernatural beliefs turned into a god thing. I know that early civilizations started by believing in supernatural things, they worshiped animals, plants, and even rain, fire. All around the globe, people worship an image of god they follow. How did that image come up? Was worshiping god started due to fear among society members or it was a consensus among its members to give a central man the power to decide the future of society members. Was it a social contract between members of the society and a central man (god) to look after the followers?
There weren't really any images of gods back then, that came much later.
With the advent of organized religions, the latter, yes.
Not really.Do you really believe in magical actions and following the path of truth by god (as prevalent in our conscience) or it is just a story to promote the theme of god name?
I wouldn't agree that following a god is prevalent in our conscience, but more along the lines of stories to promote gods.
Everything single thing that we know has it origin in the extra sensory... meaning we cannot relate to them with the physical senses. This is the original idea behind the concept of what is known as the supernatural.
Each man will align himself with one of these three all encompassing philosophies concerning existence.
1) All things is as one, With each individual thing having it's place and purpose which it will fulfill.
This is the origin of the idea of ONE GOD under which all existence is guided, none inferior or superior one to the other but each abiding as they are.
2) Some things exist as superior because of division one against the other, thus there are things which should be exemplified and other nullified. This is the origin of God and multiplicity the of Gods, where there is one Greater than the rest, or some greater than the other.
3) Then there is Nothing...which reigns supreme among all other things. For everything came from it and is expected to return to it. This philosophy summarily dismisses every other philosophies and will not entertain any other form of knowledge except it's own.
From the the concept og No God came.All this sounds philosophical, kess. I am looking for some concrete evidence of evolution of religion and god. Are we worshiping god due to fear or we are just following our ancestors's footsteps, who also perhaps started off with some fear. Are we god loving people or god fearing people?
Philosophy is the enquiry of matters concerning life...so that makes us all philosophical.
As men ask themselves questions concerning their own purpose and place in this life, the concept of God automatically arises.
The concept will take the distinct form as mentioned before. Yet they will be interwoven one with the other.
My response is not designed to take you through the maze of ignorance where there are more questions than answers and therefore I understand if you don't find it very useful.
People follow religion simply because they want to have a better understanding of God. If God began as a magical human, the idea would have died out. If religion were the path to a better understanding there would be only one religion.
No they don't. They don't want a better understanding of God. They want eternal life (or think they do). They want a father figure protecting them. They want to belong to the club. They want to escape hell.
A better "understanding" is always welcome, but only if it agrees with what they want to believe. Let that understanding include child sacrifice and it will be dropped like a hot potato. Or to give all possessions to the poor and go preach. Or maybe stop the divorce, end the affair or take care of an aging parent; things they don't want to do somehow escape understanding.I'm afraid i disagree. You can cite things which fall in line with your understanding of God and then assume you understand the reasoning behind others not falling in line with your understanding. You can listen to others pay lip service to words in a book which they outwardly claim are their understanding of God yet don't follow.
However, does anyone have an understanding of God? If so, how? With all the religions throughout the world how could we know?
People believe God exists. They believe God loves them. If love is the primary motivator then i think the problem is love of self above others clouds our understanding. It's easy to believe oneself to be loved. It's easy to believe rules don't apply to us and are bent to ensure our happiness. It is difficult to believe a deity overlooks the faults in others which mirror the faults in ourselves.
God has no religion. He is God and he does not get involved in your day-today affair. It is doubtful if he does it even in some major happenings in your life. Most of your life's doings will have consequences as decreed by Him.
The only thing sure about him is that he exists.
But don't worry, he is sending someone pretty soon to clear your and my doubts.Hope so buddy, the doubts get more serious as we know more and more about god's existence and the evolution of religion.
Monotheism was first established by the Zoroastrians. Before them, it was polytheism or bust.
There is a statue of "Vishnu Meditating With Ten Avatars" carved exquisitely out of some type of solid rock at the museum where I used to work. It is from about 1,200 BC, India. I don't know how they carved these type of statues out of stone way back then. Maybe used some sort of advanced technology. I think the knowledge of and manifesting of scientific technology is cyclical. I think electricity and all present technology existed in the days of Atlantis. I think there is God. I think we are all individual portions and creations of God. I think we have past lives. I think there is a lot of traffic coming and going from the astral realm. Of course there is God and he is laughing all the way to the bank (in heaven!)
We have to climb the stairway.
As far as origin? always was, always will be.
It's really amazing to be conscious…
Are we conscious after the heart stops beating? John in the bible said he died daily:
"'I die daily—' This ought to stand first in the sentence, as it is so put prominently forward in the Greek. I am day by day in sight of death, exposed to it, and expecting it (2Co 4:11, 12; 1:8, 9; 11:23)."
1 Corinthians 15:31-33: 31 "I die daily, I protest by your glory, brethren, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Apparently, he knew how to stop his heart, (which is an advanced yogic technique.) I assume he remained conscious while doing so. So, the answer given in the bible is: Yes!
Jesus needs to come back and explain a few things. I wish he'd hurry up.- Beth37posted 10 years ago
0Do you have a Bible? This answers all questions about God. Here is an online bible.
The old testament begins in Genesis.
http://www.biblica.com/bibles/chapter/? … ersion=niv
The new testament begins in Matthew.
(http://www.biblica.com/bibles/chapter/? … ersion=niv)Thing is Beth, we have the bible only through inheritance from the Hebrew people. They wrote /edited the Book of Genesis and Exodus during the exile to Babylon apparently where the scribes of the time wanted to set down all the verbal traditions of their origins as a people as a comfort to a people who had been dispossessed from Israel. Now El was one God of many in the Canaanite pantheon, the husband of the Goddess Asherah, and he was considered the Father God of humanity. It was El that the Hebrews adopted as their God and over time excluded all the others; adopted the epithet of other Gods to apply to El alone; and at some point Asherah was divorced from El and proclaimed a foreign God.
What we have today and what Christianity say is the one true God is only with us through inheritance of history. Had situations been different, the West could be still worshipping Zeus, Thor or Horus. It might be that in the grand scheme of things there is only one God who is real, but what we know of this God is only one of many World traditions. You assume you have the correct one, but I think the Native Americans, Australian Aborigines, and African pigmys would disagree with you.You forgot to add ATM to that group... and Radman, and JM. So that would be the Native Americans, Australian Aborigines, African pigmys, ATM, Radman and JM. How does this affect my faith?
How it affects your faith is up to you, but it seems clear by a look at the history of the Canaanite people (including the Hebrews) that you cannot be so absolutely certain of the bible and your theology, because you only received it by happenstance of history.
What you call happenstance, I call providence. I have to get ready for church. See ya.
Oh it is providence that let Europeans get christianity (from which they are increasingly turning away), Africans islam and Chinese Buddhism! Seems like heaven is a crammed place that god want to avoid many people getting there!
Mt Matthew 7:13-14
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
When you read these forums, you begin to see why this is the case. Man has contented himself with darkness. He has the same hope that is offered to those who are saved, but he discards his only hope in favor of what he claims to be truth, when in fact it is only the lies from an enemy who would destroy him and all he loves. It is not too late to seek truth.Can you explain that, please? What darkness are you referring? What only hope are we discarding? What enemies are you referring?
None of what you say makes any sense without explaining those concepts.It is difficult to explain choosing darkness to someone who has chosen it. They don't remember ever having sat down and saying, "I'd like to choose darkness over light please." But by rejecting God, that is what you have done. The darkness is life without Christ, it is eternity without Christ. He alone is the light, he is love and truth and apart from him, all is darkness, but you don't accept this, so you live in darkness without even knowing it.
Of course, without Christ, there is no hope. When every thing is falling apart, you have no promise... "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to his purpose.." Rm 8:28 You have no hope b/c you are not "in Christ". You are outside of the camp. You could knock... he promises that to all who knock, he will open the door, but instead you throw rocks at the walls as if that does anything, but feed your anger.
And the enemy I refer to is of course Satan who has you in total disillusionment. You have totally bought into the lies of the inferior super-natural being while denying the truth of the superior super-natural being. You are as much a part of the spirit world as any believer, you just don't know it yet.That makes no sense. Light and dark have nothing to do with choosing a religious entity. That is a false scenario. You have not chosen Allah or Zeus, does that make you choosing the dark, as well? See how it makes no sense.
Again, since you're incapable of explaining darkness, your words are meaningless.
What does that mean, "When every thing is falling apart"? People can cope with things in their life without the need of Christ or any other religious entity? Do you cope without Allah? Muslims would say that is impossible.
Again, you need to explain your terms. What camp? What door is to be knocked upon? What rocks are being thrown? What anger are you talking about? Your words are meaningless without definition and description.
I have no idea who Satan is and have never met him. Have you met him? What disillusionment are you referring?
Where are these super-natural beings you speak of and how do you know they exist? Have you met them? What lies have I bought into?
What spirit world? Where is this world you speak of?
Again, you need to explain yourself, your terms are meaningless without some valid and credible references.Acts 26:18
"To open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me."
John 3:19-21
"And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
Isaiah 50:10
"Who among you fears the Lord and obeys the voice of his servant? Let him who walks in darkness and has no light trust in the name of the Lord and rely on his God."
Ephesians 6:12
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places."Putting out scripture verses only shows you can't explain the terms you are using, the very same terms scripture uses, that are meaningless without explanation.
If you can't explain yourself, just say so rather than beating around the bush. No one is going to criticize you just because you don't even understanding what you believe.You cannot understand b/c you have chosen darkness. Im sorry.
a.k.a. "You got me, I really can't explain anything, so I'm going to dodge the issue while simultaneously putting on an air of superiority."
I am not superior in any way. We are all the same. I did explain, he cannot see it.
No, you didn't explain anything, you didn't answer a single question or provide any description or definition of all the meaningless terms you used to condemn me. Yes, you certainly do believe that you're superior.
No, you are the one who says so. Your words.
You condemn me without even knowing or understanding what it is your condemning and then have the audacity to tell me I don't understand. Repeating words from scriptures that have no real meaning, but since they appear to make you sound superior, you use them on others, despite the fact you couldn't even answer a single question explaining them.
You're not sorry, not in the least. That only adds insult to injury.
Beth I spent 25 years in church as a "born again spirit filled bible believin' Christian". I am no longer in church and though I am no atheist I see Christianity for what it is, just another man made fabricated religion and the God it portrays is so far removed from an ideal concept of God. Am I now in darkness? Am I now deceived by satan? The only change in my life is my new freedom, freedom to think for myself with my God given brain for example.
However I am dismayed that you posted the verses above. Just because someone is an atheist or rejects evangelical Christianity, you assume they are wicked and in darkness. I find that rather bizarre. Let me suggest that you are not actually wrestling against any so called powers of the air. Have you met or seen said powers? Do you assume that arguing for Jesus is spiritual warfare, extending the kingdom, taking authority over the enemy?
Let me suggest you speak to some Jews or look up some Jewish biblical commentaries, you would find that they think your railing against a non existent arch fiend of God aka satan as rather strange or delusional.When someone says, "I once knew God, but now I have rejected Him." There is nothing for me to say. It was your choice, it is a God given choice and though I feel you chose wrongly, Im not sure what you would like me to do about it. "Choose you this day, whom you will serve... as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
Beth you obviously didn't read what I wrote. I never said I rejected God, I rejected the Church and the manmade Christian religion. Why do you assume rejection of today's Christianity is rejection of God? Christianity today is not the same as that which Jesus spoke of.
Besides which, the Church is stuffed full of people who think they know God but the experiences they have exist only in their minds, placebos, or hyped up happy clappy emotionalism. When was the last time you saw a burning bush?
Your verses are from the sacred book, which do not discovers the origin of humanity and god for me. I am confused beth, why we worship god and follow his footsteps. Is it due to fear? Who explored the idea of god first? Is it the god himself??
Have you read the Bible? I provided a link online on this thread, I believe. If you want to know God, you just need to read His word. I would ask Him to reveal Himself to me. He is faithful to reveal Himself to those who seek Him.
Why not read his scripture?
Why, god is humble to follow your opinion of what is right? Is it based on your authority that bible is the word of god or did god specifically choose you to reveal that secret?
Do you think you are so special that the providence conspired to give you the correct version while keeping it away from the majority of humanity?
Humility only in words, if you are not superior and special how come the providence chose to bestow its secrets on you?Dad comes home from work. He has a gift in each hand for both of his children. Billy hugs his dad, takes the gift and thanks him profusely. Ann throws the gift on the ground, says it's wrong in every way for her and kicks it out into the street. Later on when she's cooled off, she asks her dad, with tears in her eyes, why he brought Billy a gift, but not her. Why was Billy so special? He reminds her he brought her the same gift and she rejected it.
If you choose to reject the free gift of salvation that God has offered you, why do you throw stones at those of us who want it? You could say no thank you and be on your way... so what causes the need to come here every day and rally against those with faith? Is it kind of like a gossip session? If you get enough ppl to believe as you believe, then you will feel secure in your choice? If we are delusional, are you trying to be our savior? What is the fear that causes you to reject, but then spend your days debating your choice?
Take the present, reject the present. No one is forcing you.There are no gifts being given, gifts are unconditional, your Gods salvation has many conditions, it is not a gift, it is a contract signed in blood.
But, since you haven't been able to explain any of the terms you've used thus far, it's no wonder you called it a gift.
We were asking questions and instead of getting answers, YOU condemn us with talk of choosing darkness from your position of superiority.So the millions of people who didn't hear of your god was rwjecting the gift?
The other denominations who rejected your particular version is also rejecting the gifts?
"why do you throw stones at those of us who want it?"
Want what, to preach in a hub? If you take "your" gift and quietly enjoying it who is bothering you?
It is the self righteous arrogant smugness of billy who accepted the first person who came along with gift as his father and his contempt for those who already have gifts because it was not from his supposed father, is making people throw stones at Billy.
"If you get enough ppl to believe as you believe, then you will feel secure in your choice? "
Is that the why you are here, to feel saftey in numbers? Is the inherent foolishness of believing somebody whom you have never seen in your entire life is haunting you?
"If we are delusional, are you trying to be our savior?"
Certainly not. I am trying to prevent you people from fooling others and taking the world back to the dark ages.
" What is the fear that causes you to reject, but then spend your days debating your choice? "
That is a two way question, isn't it?
What is the fear that causes you to accept other people who like yourself have only opinions, , but then spend your days debating your choice?
Or What is the fear that causes you to reject Catholicism or Calvinism, but then spend your days debating your choice?If you are content, and closed off to God completely, then what more can I say? I do hope if you ever find yourself at a crossroads, you will make the right choice. You are loved by your creator.
Why again the smugness and superiority?
Does accepting an ancient book you chose make one superior and specially selected and loved by the providence?
Only people who hold your opinion is accepted by god?
After exhibiting such blatant superiority complex how can you claim that you are not claiming superiority?It's funny... what you perceive. I could say I feel no smugness or superiority until Im blue in the face, but it wouldn't matter to you. You've made up your mind. I don't spose there's really much else to talk about?
You say you know something others don't. You say you know not only what providence want but what he wants is exactly what you say. You also say that those who don't hold your opinion are mistaken and misguided and has rejected god, that is, people who don't agree with you is rejecting god. You also say that god has chosen to reject the majority of humans yet chose you specifically to reveal himself. If this is not claiming superiority I know not what is.
Then call me crazy. Sane trumps crazy every time, right? How can I be superior if I'm crazy? Call me whatever you want. I don't think I'm superior. I think my God is superior to all and we are ALL the same b/c we are ALL sinners in need of a savior. You get caught up on semantics and miss the main message every time. Call me crazy and walk away or discuss the message. Semantics are just a distraction from the truth.
Hah the cope out strategy that the other person has some deficiency that he cannot even understand a message right.
You aren't saying your god is superior but what you say is your opinion regarding god is superior to everybody else, that only you correctly know what god is all about and what he wants and rest of us have no clue.Is that what I was saying? Ok, thanks for clarifying my thoughts.
Yea, you were saying bible is the word of god and not quran because you said it and everybody else who think otherwise is mistaken. Humility, I suppose!
It is what I believe. It is what you believe to say that faith is false. Is that a lack of humility too or are we all given the right to believe as we choose?
If you have noticed, I am not condemning what you believe but what you say. Just as you believe you are right and others are wrong, others to believe the same. You can believe earth is flat, no problem, but you cannot say earth is flat because you said so and others are all wrong and have rejected earth because they do not agree with you. If your god(your version) is right for you, other peoples god is right for them. As it was only by chance that you got your version it do not make you special nor what you say right, nor are they rejecting the "gift" because they are rejecting you. Thinking you only are right and others are wrong and thinking others are rejecting god because they reject you, is arrogance and superiority complex.
So should we all run around refusing to acknowledge the shape of the earth?
"Mummy, what's the shape of the earth?"
"Hush child! Never speak of the shape of the earth. You never know who's listening."
If we believe something different than someone else, should we all then be silent about our beliefs in order to never challenge anyone?
Would that not end the teaching of evolution in schools? Would that not basically end all communication eventually? We would certainly not have newspapers, television or news shows. If I had my way, no one at any time would be allowed to use a pun, I find them to be the lowest form of humor... but if you find them the most enjoyable, whose view should we suppress? (Yours in that case, puns really are awful.)If you haven't noticed yet, none of the persons who come here are children but adults who know what is good for them.
No, after all we come here to discuss, don't we? But is it warranted to tell them that "you have rejected god and his gifts" especially when what you know about god is no better than what others know about god?
Again, do you understand the difference between stating your view and stating that only you are right and others are wrong?Try to understand this... when you decide what you believe, that means there are opposing views you have rejected b/c you believe them to be wrong. It is the nature of choosing one thing over another. I could go to my grave never telling another soul what I believe, but that would be in absolute opposition to my beliefs. So if I believe it, I am not afraid to share that I believe it. Nor am I afraid to say that I have rejected the other opinions. I'm pretty sure that's what we're all doing here.
You need not be afraid to say what you believe is true nor that you rejected other opinions, but what you should not say is that the people who hold other opinions are "misguided", "rejected god or his gifts", "mistaken", is "going to hell"...... After all, what proof you have that you are right and others are wrong? It is your opinion and everybody has the right to hold their opinion. In a discussion it is common courtesy not to lash out at your opponents saying that you have special god given knowledge while they have rejected god or god has rejected them and they lack some quality you have that the "providence" selected you and rejected them because they lack that.
As I sated earlier, those people who hold your opinion is a minority compared to the world population and many have not even heard about your god. It is an insult and affront to say that you are selected specially by the providence but they are rejected (and hence they lack some quality you have -that you are superior to them).Indoor plumbing is preferable to outhouses, especially in the winter. If you have never had indoor plumbing, you may not know that. I have used a port-a-potty and I can tell you for certain that indoor plumbing is preferable. You have every right to disagree.
Yes, I say outdoor plumbing is better.Either I can simply repeat the statements and ignore all your attempts asking me to explain myself or I can say the those who reject out door plumbing are barbarians, uncouth and uneducated. But if I want a discussion there is another way, state why I find outdoor plumbing is better and compare with what you say. If I do not want a discussion I should not enter into the discussion in the first place. What is the point in entering a discussion and simply repeating that outdoor plumbing is the only good thing and those who reject my opinion is barbaric, is lost..... if my intention is not to offend?
See... I haven't asked you to explain yourself. It's quite the opposite. You can't see this?
And you pretend that I have called ppl names for their unbelief, when my exact words were that "we are all the same." I don't feel that we are a good match for discussing things... of most natures apparently, as there seems to be a breakdown in simple communication. Until you can follow my actual words, maybe you could focus on someone else's posts for a bit?I cannot trace all the previous posts, so I cannot get all your comments. In the beginning of this forum you said I am rejecting god's gift.
The repeatedly stating the you have some special knowledge that I lack, is just saying that you are superior to me.
"I haven't asked you to explain yourself"
I did, I asked what proof you got to say that you are right and I am wrong.
We are not equal if you have some special knowledge and I do not.Equal in what way? If you go to see a movie before I do, you know what's going to happen and I have yet to find out. Does that make you better than me? No. Does that mean you're smarter? No. There are the wisest of men and those who are mentally disabled who have placed their faith in the same God. Which of them is greater than you? Neither. One day you may place your faith in God or you may not. That is between you and God. I am not superior to you in any way... and I will tell you that the Bible says that the shepherd will leave the flock to find one who has wandered away. The information I have that you do not yet have, is that you are loved by your Creator. Despise me for telling you this or thank me. It doesn't change the message I am compelled to give you.
Why should I read the bible, I have read it all my life. Just as you are not able to say why you prefer bible over others the bible is not able to say anything about god. The bible describe a cruel deity who is willing to kill his son t satisfy his wims, that is not god.
You have seen only one movie and you say it is the best, everybody should see it and see it only but others have seen many movies and is able to identify which one is good that does not mean they have lost "gifts".
Then there is one more thing which fail to take into account, ow you and others got the movie? You got this version because you happen to be birn in a particular geographic area. People who are born in other areas saw different movie and they like it does not mea the movie you watched is the better one. If they have lost something because they have not watched your movie then you too lost by not watching theirs.you liking your movie is not a reason that others movie is inferior in any way nor is a compelling reason to watch yours.
If you are specially selected for your movie then they are for theirs. It will not make your movie superiorbut just another movie.
" same God. Which of them is greater than you? "
May be the same god, but not the same version. How do you know that the bible is the true version and how does your knowledge superior to anybody else knowledge that theirs is best.This is the kind of stuff I can't wrap my mind around. On one hand you say you have read the bible your whole life. Two sentences later, you say God killed his son to satisfy a whim.
John 10:17-18
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
Jesus gave his life willingly, but why? To suit a whim?
Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 2:8–9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
So according the the Bible, Jesus gave his life willingly b/c we are sinners and the payment for sin is death, so he became sin for us, was crucified in our place, and rose again to prepare a place for us in Heaven. We read that we could not have earned this salvation on our own, it was a free gift, and why did he make such an unbelievable sacrifice? Those 3 little words... He loves us.
John 3:16
Do I really need to post what it says? God GAVE...Luke 22:42
New International Version (NIV)
42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
Matthew 26:42
Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, “My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, your will be done.”
John 18:11
So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into its sheath; shall I not drink the cup that the Father has given me?”
And it was indeed god's will. I can quote other verses too, if you want.
No, according to bible it was god's wish that jesus die, but why? God wants to forgive sins, why not? Why didn't he simply forgive? Again what is death if you are going to get up after two days, if not sleep?
He wants to prepare a heaven? Why did he slept for three days to do that?
And according to bible jesus is god and there is only one god, so how did god die? What happened when there was no god?When a human being remain unconscious (for 36 hours) it is called sleep or coma. I used the term sleep. You said jesus went to prepare paradise, so was he preparing it during the sleep or was he taking rest then? (If jesus was with god during that time, then who died?
Can you give me the verse that says people on death will be with god.
What is so important about body? We all leave it at some point, don't we? It is god's will.
So how can jesus defy god's will? It is a command, isn't it?
But if Jesus and god are the same then it was his plan that he die, wasn't it? Then it is suicide.
That is not information you have that we don't have, that is information you accept to be true that many, many others don't accept. In fact, more people in the world don't accept your beliefs than do accept them. It is actually you who is in a small minority of accepting that to be true.
Majority or minority does not affect what is factual. If you have rejected it, as you say, then there is nothing left to talk about and I wish you well.
True, facts are what are considered factual. So far, you have to present facts, you have only condemned others because they don't believe what you believe.
That would be more superiority complex on your part, that fact that you won't explain your beliefs with anyone who doesn't share them. That would called bigotry.It is difficult to explain choosing darkness to someone who has chosen it. They don't remember ever having sat down and saying, "I'd like to choose darkness over light please." But by rejecting God, that is what you have done. The darkness is life without Christ, it is eternity without Christ. He alone is the light, he is love and truth and apart from him, all is darkness, but you don't accept this, so you live in darkness without even knowing it.
Of course, without Christ, there is no hope. When every thing is falling apart, you have no promise... "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to his purpose.." Rm 8:28 You have no hope b/c you are not "in Christ". You are outside of the camp. You could knock... he promises that to all who knock, he will open the door, but instead you throw rocks at the walls as if that does anything, but feed your anger.
And the enemy I refer to is of course Satan who has you in total disillusionment. You have totally bought into the lies of the inferior super-natural being while denying the truth of the superior super-natural being. You are as much a part of the spirit world as any believer, you just don't know it yet.Wow, indoctrination is strong with this one. I guess what you are saying is you have chosen light, while others have chosen darkness, we just can't see it, but you (of course) can. And by light do you mean a complete lack of common sense and no understanding of the natural universe?
I have plenty of hope without believing that a God impregnated a Palestinian women with himself a few thousand years ago. My first hope is that people like yourself would understand how silly your superstitions are.
The lies of the (inferior) super-natural being? Like dinosaurs and the age of the universe and the position of the earth in the universe and the fact that the moon is not a light and frequents the day as well as the night? Inferior and superior super-natural beings? Let's get this straight if you will, the inferior super-natural being was created by the superior version who has multiple personalities and was never created, but yet you refer to him as Father rather than Mother?
Your post reeks of an inferiority complex masking as a superiority complex.You mentioned how smart Billy Graham is in another post so with that in mind I thought I'd post this rather enlightening quote from him that may shed some light for you.
Billy Graham
"I think that everybody that loves or knows Christ, whether they are conscious of it or not, they are members of the body of Christ. . . . [God] is calling people out of the world for his name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they have been called by God. They may not know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something they do not have, and they turn to the only light they have, and I think that they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven."
So would you please kindly stop telling us that we are going hell.I don't run around telling ppl they're going to hell, though I wouldn't ever withhold scripture when talking about spiritual things. Here's the actual interview he had with Robert Schuller. I understand the point Billy Graham is making, and I agree with the point he's trying to make.
Schuller: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?
Graham: Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.
Schuller: What, what I hear you saying that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?
Graham: Yes, it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.
Schuller: [R. S. trips over his tongue for a moment, his face beaming, then says] I'm so thrilled to hear you say this. There's a wideness in God's mercy.
Graham: There is. There definitely is.I can go back through your posts and find examples where you did just that. In fact, you recited verses from the Bible of which I protested, but you were insistent.
How could the same God who created Jesus have created hell?
OT = Master ethics = Listen to your master or I'll whip you.
NT = Slave ethics = Love everyone, turn the other check.
It's clear they were not written by the same God or even with the same God in mind. Simply people attempting to control people.I recommend doing a brief study of the canaanite god el and his consort asheroth. El is a war God and the father of possibly baal and molech. El was adopted by the Hebrews, even his consort is in the old testament. I can find you a podcast on the gods (very definitely plural) found in the ot. It's fascinating.
Oh yeah, I remember hearing about these. I found a video a while back that talks about that very theory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYD0LzmilE8
Bible is a collection of cunningly written documents. Allegories galore, most of the things like parables of Jesus do not at all mean what they say. Most Christians read the Bible and take the verses/stories/incidences literally. There is one enlightened group which knows but I cannot disclose its name for the fear that I would be seen to be propagating their cause. And,they do not have a cause; not one bit of an earthly cause.
How can you be seen as propagating their cause when they don't have a cause?
That is precisely what I mean
People will "perceive" a cause where there is noneIn an atheist's view theists "perceive" God when there is no such thing
In a terrorist's view he "perceives" oppression but it does not exist
In a child's view a strict parent "perceives" bad things about him
That still doesn't equate to there being a cause in the first place.
I believe the concept is that God created everything, the universe and all that is contained within it. If God didn't create something, who did and how does that align with God's creation?
So, the terms 'darkness and light' are terms made up to show the difference between accepting Christ or not. Obviously, those terms, and others just like them, are irrelevant to the fact that they are used in other religions when accepting or rejecting those particular gods. The terms are therefore meaningless unless one is using them to place themselves in a position of feigned superiority.
For example, you have chosen darkness because you reject Allah.
"So, you live in darkness without even knowing it."
That is completely false, of course. Hope has nothing to do with Christ or any other gods.
Hope: a feeling of expectation and desire for a particular thing to happen.
People don't need promises when things fall apart, they need real, reasoned solutions to problems.
Anger? Where do you get the idea that people are angry? What rocks are being thrown?
And, there is the position of superiority again. Not only that, you have condemned me as a follower of Satan, and evil person, which couldn't be more further from the truth, but it is something you must say in order to feel superior to me.
No, I am not part of your imagined spirit world, I live in the real world where people don't alienate others by condemning them and being superior over them just because they don't believe the same things.
Yours is a very un-Christlike behavior full of bigotry.If these is not claiming superiority I do not know what is!
He rejected you and your opinion about god, how is that rejection of god?My opinions about God are only based on what the Bible says. Without the Bible, I am just making up a religion that suits me. If you deny the Bible, that is your prerogative. I cannot convince you that it is true or that you should follow God, I can only share a few verses with you and tell you my experience with a forgiving God.
A forgiving God? That's the God you need isn't it? You should stick to the NT then, as the OT God is rather unforgiving. Would you like me to show you how unforgiving the OT God is?
I can't show you my salvation, but that is forgiveness enough for me.
I don't know how you arrive at your conclusions.
John 1:12
"But *as many as received him*, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
John 3:16
"For God so loved *the world* that he gave his one and only Son, that *whoever* believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
John 10:10 (CEV)
"A thief comes only to rob, kill, and destroy. I came so that *everyone* would have life, and have it in its fullest."Exodus 21:15 NKJV
And he who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 21:9 NLT
If a priest’s daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she also defiles her father’s holiness, and she must be burned to death.
Not much forgiving happening in the OT. Do you dismiss the OT in order to maintain your forgiving God?So... in the old testament times, men had to live impossibly holy lives. Priests would try to enter the holy of holies and would wear ropes tied around them... if when they entered, they had sin in their lives, they would perish and would have to be pulled back out by ppl outside. God's standards are very high and most of us would not qualify by our works/lives.
So in His mercy, God sent Jesus to be that bridge... to do what we couldn't seem to manage. Basically, because we would not rise to His standard, God lowered the bridge so we could reach it. There is no reason to dismiss the OT, it's a part of the same history.So, because his standards are impossible high and he is so incredible forgiving and was getting tired of all of the flooding and killing, he sent part of himself down so that we could kill him and that somehow brings his standards down to something some of us can manage so that he doesn't have to constantly kill people? Do you not see how silly and childish and meaningless that story is?
I'm trying to answer your questions b/c you keep posing them to me.
Who set the standard? A perfect God.
Who else was perfect? No one.
If we were to be punished for our sin, could we survive the punishment?
Ask the Israelites who complained in the desert about the free food after having been freed from slavery.
Ask the townspeople of Sodom and Gomorrah when they lived in disobedience to God.
Ask Jonah when he ran from God instead of doing His will.
Ask the earthlings who turned their backs on God until He'd had enough and sent the flood.
Are you better than those ppl or do you figure you're pretty much the same. I figure I'm a lot like them. So my fate was sealed... except. God had mercy. As the only perfect being, only His own sacrifice could cover our wrong doing. So not only did He choose not to destroy us, not only did He decide to have mercy instead of pouring out His unbearable wrath, He chose to BE the sacrifice.
I would not be quick to mock God. You don't seem to recognize His great power, and you don't seem to understand His love.
This was a good convo Radman. Thanks, and have a good day.It is a good conversation. Are you able to step back and look at what you wrote and why you wrote it?
Don't you see the contradictions and the irony here? Why would a "perfect" God make us imperfect and then punish us for it?
Do you see a forgiving God in any of that?
Why the human/God sacrifice again? One would think a perfect God wouldn't need to resort to such violence to forgive us. You'd think he could have just started to forgive us for stuff like not being a virgin in one's wedding night? Funny how that was really important to him isn't it? Girls needed to be virgins but not the boys. It's almost like it was written by men without a just fair God.
I'm not mocking any God. I'm looking critically at the texts of people a few thousand years ago.God is all forgiving> He had also sent down His only son to take the burden of our sins. This only son takes all the sins committed by people born before Him and born after Him and deposits them in His account. . Any sin you commit goes into this account.
This is where God's infinite mercy and Jesus' magnanimity lie. And, if you sin even after knowing this, you are the lowliest of the low lives.I read that and often wonder if the person writing actually even knows what they're talking about. What is a perfect God? How do you describe a perfect God? What are the traits and characteristics of a perfect God?
Then, after explaining that, please explain how a "perfect God" would set standards that his very own creation could never reach? And then, to fix the situation, God sends down his Son as a human sacrifice. Doesn't that failure of setting the standards too high automatically make God imperfect?
As he already pointed out you are in darkness by rejecting Allah.
Bible is god's word is your opinion only. You are rejecting god's word by rejecting quran.
What people are rejecting is not god but your words that bible is god's word and people who reject bible are rejecting god.
Here are your words. They certainly don't show that "we are all the same", they show that you believe you are superior to us, that we follow Satan that we have bought into lies, that we have chosen "darkness", whatever that means.
Almost half of all Americans are running around refusing to acknowledge evolution, which is the same thing as what you're saying.
You're not challenging, you're condemning others for not believing the same thing as you.
Considering there are billions more people with a huge, wide variety of gods and beliefs that also disagree with you, that should be some affect to your faith. None at all?
However, this video explains why you have that faith.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1A9vrsw6Hw
The bible brings about more questions than it answers.
What is the Bible's answer to the science behind all religion? There is science behind the words, "I die daily. " There is science behind the words of "If thine eye be single thy whole body will be full of light."
During Jesus time they knew nothing of energy/ electricity, but they did know light from sun and flame.
He understood energy which animates the body and consciousness.
Don't you think Jesus has a lot of explaining to do?
When the student is ready the teacher appears.
Maybe He will come back to satisfy the thirst for knowledge when the majority is craving to know.The beauty of the Bible is that there is a bit of mystery to it. Like with any beautiful romance or mystery novel, or a great archaeological find, God has allowed us to do some digging. It is so simple a child can understand, and so deep, there are things we may not fully comprehend until we see God face to face. The more you study, the more that will be revealed. I remember how proud I felt when I discovered that Melchizedek was the old testament appearance of Jesus... no one told me this, I didn't hear it in a sermon. I was doing a study and the scripture itself revealed that to me. If we lack knowledge, it is b/c we do not apply ourselves. There is also a great amount of commentary that will help a seeker if they are looking for quick answers. Here are a couple of helpful ones: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/henry/mhc.i.html
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/Thank you for sharing these sites and your insights, Beth.
The beauty of science is that it attempts to solve mysteries, so that people aren't left guessing or using magical thinking to find answers. The problem with the Bible is that it doesn't give us any answers, it just gives us mystery, which is the equivalent of ignorance.
Faith in Jesus protects us. He has authority over all that takes way life. He gives life. By tuning in to Jesus we tune into God.
PS I think creation started as sound… vibration… That's why some use sound bells/bowls as spiritual therapy and chant using the sound of aum.
"How does it work? Ancient instruments, including Tibetan singing bowls are 'struck and sung' in specific rhythmic patterns to create vibrational sound harmonics at the frequency of "AUM" or "OM". This sound frequency known as that of Perfection impacts the sympathetic nervous system as your brain waves synchronize to the vibrations of the bowls. The harmonic vibrations engage the relaxation reflex and slow down the respiratory, brain and heart rate and disrupt the pain reflex creating a deep sense of well being."
http://www.soundenergyhealing.comWhat is the origin Kathryn? Science claims the evolution of humankind from homosapiens and homosapiens from ancient ,early reptiles. Who is god? Is he humanoid faced god? Why did we create a face? Is it necessary to have a face to worship god?
That is an excellent example of how the "mystery" of scriptures ensures keeping people ignorant and accepting guesswork based on magical thinking. It shows a complete lack of anything scientific or evidence based.
All matter is God. He has a face and he doesn't have a face. If you want to see one of the beautiful, amazing and wonderful faces of God…
look in the mirror! LOL
But, of course He doesn't have to have a face to be worshipped!
-one just needs to sense that He exists everywhere and in everything.
TWISI, the origin of God
is Himself:
Omnipresent Omniscient Omnipotent Energy and Consciousness.
(Sometimes I call Him Triple O.)...and He loves Love, tempered with His Wisdom.
first form of worship and the idea that there was something after death started with ancestor worship ( the father). then came the sun.( the son). at least that's what i saw on a history channel show.
This is the first time, I read worshiping father. I do know that sun, earth, and other heavenly things were taken as divine in early period. But worshiping father or ancestors is something new to me. Still, I am confused about the origin of god.
Religion was and still is being created by humans. Religion has its rules also created by humans feeling the inspiration of goodness and God. One of your questions reminds me of who came first; the chicken or the egg? The Catholic interpretation is: God is the Supreme Being, infinitely perfect who makes all things and keeps them in existence. Another example is; God always was and is. I would like to get beside that point of view. In Taoism there is a God Force which we are all part of. According to what I believe about Taoism there was no Messiah to come down from the Heavens and cure humankind's evil. We follow religion because we were taught to do so. On the other hand there are people who choose which religion to follow.
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