God vs. Satan

1. 59

   Greg Cremiaposted 14 years ago

   The devil is just an excuse used to deny guilt.

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   Onusonusposted 14 years ago

   God allows Satan to exist because everyone is intitled to their free agency, even Satan. Further to gain experiance, we are afforded the ability to choose right from wrong, and how could we know good from bad if there were not opposition?

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      (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's a method we like to call "thinking."

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         Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Oh, I understand now. If I hadn't cut off half of your sentence it would have been more comprehensable.

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            (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, I know.

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               Onusonusposted 14 years agoin reply to this

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3. 59

   Ohmaposted 14 years ago

   Without conflict most humans have no desire to change. The existance of the idea of Satan is to provide conflict thus forcing us to grow and change.

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   Marliza Gunterposted 14 years ago

   BECAUSE THE MOST INTELLIGENT BEING DOES NOT WANT TO OVERPOWER HIS WEAK CONTENDER....BUT PATIENTLY WAITS TO GIVE THE DARK PRINCE A FAIR CHANCE AND A GOOD HEAD START...SO AS TO NOT TO CAUSE UNNECESSARY CRYING AND TEARS BY A DEFEATED OPPONENT....

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   Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago

   ..a sidebar note:
   
   the issue of knowledge:
   
   knowledge per say is not wrong.
   but to accept the idea that we are less a perfect creation is.
   
   this was precisely what occurred between Lucifer & Eve/Adam.
   she was deceived by words into accepting she was 'not smart/good/perfect enough' that she 'needed to know'.
   Since then it has been mankind's downfall -the need to know- in the hope of perfecting himself, though all along he has been perfect, at least in the eyes of the One who made him.
   
   The sin was in knowing that they were perfect and given everything, yet turning away from it to accept someone else idea.
   
   -to this day, man's quest for knowledge & believing that he is less than perfect has led him far from home.
   
   imagine looking at your son, knowing full well you made him.
   You provide everything he needs for life to the fullest. One day he comes home and says he's just not good enough. Dad/Mom look at him and say, "who told you that?" "So-in-so", he answers.
   But the vision of his perfection never changes in his parents eyes, even as he turns away from them to 'seek his own path'.

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   1. 58

      Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Good answer

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   2. 54

      (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      So, you smite him and send his bony butt to burn for an eternity in a lake of fire.
      
      Yeah, good answer.

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         Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         No, Q, that smiting -as you put it- came from man's choice, not the Creators desire.
         If your own flesh and blood turned its back on you and never came home, could you save them, protect them, teach them or are they left to fend for themselves no matter the consequence.
         
         Despite various religious interpretations, crowing preachers 'hell-fire-brimstone' the truth is simply this:
         
         Come home, son. Everything you need is here. I made it for you, give it freely, no strings. Else there is nothing I can do for you. It's your choice, your Free Will at work. If this is the way you want it, then you have to face the consequences of your actions. Else, what is the point of you having that free will...

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            skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            There is free will ? How come ? All the choices that human can make is from the set of available choices of creator (if he exist). So if it is predictable choice then it is not from free-will.

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               Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Sky, you are assuming you can predict.
               your assuming also you know the creator and understand all of his thoughts. and ironically, you have the Free Will to do so.

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                  skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  So that makes both of us at level of agnostic and that way many scriptures fail. Besides isn't religion is on assumption that creator is all knowing? if creator is all knowing as per scriptures/religion or our assumption then free-will is from his set of known choices and that discards the whole free will concept. It's like puppets making choices of moves based on number of strings attached by their creator,where is freewill ?

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                     Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Free wil is not the lack-of-control, but the expression of infinite ability within an infinite Source of ability. An ever increasing infinity/ability.
                     
                     As for agnostic: yes, both sides of the mystic (scientist, religionist) have too many creators which completely rebuts their entire system of logic, belief. Which is why they are parallels within a limited system called: reason/logic/knowledge aka the 'need to know'.

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            (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            With religion, the choice of free will is no choice at all and no different than putting a gun to your head.

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               Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I am not disagreeing with you on that. Both mystics are identical. Science + Religion. Both leave you no choice but proclaim they are 'the' choice.
               
               Well said Q.

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                  (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You most certainly have a choice to deny science and everything it has brought you. A nice cold cave awaits you. Throw away your computer, cut off your internet connection immediately if you actually believe what you spew.
                  
                  You won't do that, will you?

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                     Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Q, this is the God v. Satan thread. The Why thread is three doors down. Sorry, couldn't resist.
                     As for your questions: Why & If are relationary parallels of 'the need to know'. Hence, irrational, irrelevant and impure.
                     
                     Enjoy the days my hub friend.

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                        (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        All you had to say is that you're a hypocrite and you would be an honest man.

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                           Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           and again, Q, what is an 'honest' man. As scientist put it, there is no such thing, it is illogical to assume there is -so says your half-sister, religion.
                           
                           Again, the relationary parallel.
                           
                           enjoy the days my hub friend.

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                           1. 54

                              (Q)posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Perhaps, it is something you may wish to become familiar, or not. Either way, it's a simple process of elimination to weed out the intellectually dishonest.

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6. 78

   skyfireposted 14 years ago

   TWD, i'm not convinced with that answer, even if you say free will is conceptually "expression of infinite ability"(as human has progressive knowledge about things) but for any "all-knowing" entity it goes into finite. If the entity is not all-knowing then we're into infinite possibilities else it's not.

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      Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      'infinite has no limitation of knowing' was the direction i was going. knowledge is a limitation. Humans are limited by their knowledge or within an area called: brain, by choice.
      yet amazingly, have infinite understanding/imagination not found 'in' the brain, also by choice.

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         skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Brain has limitation, knowledge is inifinite IMO.

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   Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago

   it is tough to explain. but here goes. ( i am going to use a theological example ).
   
   before 'the fall' Adam existed in perfect unity with all of creation & Creator. He was unlimited in his ability to understand to be, he was infinite/eternal/never ending -outside the realm of knowledge and the limitations of thought.
   
   At the instance he became 'aware of his nakedness'. He had a knowledge that he was naked. Even the Creator asked him, "who said you were naked". His immediate response was argumentative and an attempted rational/logical approach to justifying his new found limitation.
   
   He became 'conscious' or 'knew'. In short he began to think instead of be. Trading infinite for finite.
   
   same as pain. it is an alarm or 'consciousness' that something is not right. Adams was the same. He became conscious that something was wrong. Yet before this he did not need to process information/to know, in order to exist or be. Originally, he was beyond this. But when he came into consciousness he had no choice but to 'think' and 'reason' his way.
   
   to this day, humans have been under the consciousness/belief that they need to know, need to think. But in fact but accepting that he is stating he is a lesser creation and limited to finite knowledge. The more he becomes conscious/learns the more acute he is of that limitation.
   
   i know that is a shoddy explanation. my apologies.

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8. 78

   skyfireposted 14 years ago

   I couldn't through with that adam example. Can you explain that with cosmological/physics example ? That will be easy to understand for me.

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      Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      i'll give it a go.
      
      
      Imagine a hive of bees. Each bee doing what bees do.
      The moment the bee begins to 'think' it will be subject to its thoughts and limited to them. The bee is now aware, conscious of its bee-ness. Before it was complete in just being a bee. Now it is responsible for its bee-ing and the elements of bee-hood.
      Previously, pre-consciousness, the bee was in unity with the other bees in the hive. Now, the bee is aware and is forced to live in that awareness, in that limitation.
      
      what once was a "bee's life" is now a "life of a bee"

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   skyfireposted 14 years ago

   I got it now from this example.

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10. 0

    kellieshellposted 13 years ago

    THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE...
    GOD LOVED LUCIFER AS DOES HE WITH ALL HIS CREATIONS.
    SINCE SATAN IS EVIL AND WANTS GODS POWER AND TO BE BETTER THAN GOD, THE LORD CAST HIM OUT OF HEAVEN. GOD KNEW THAT THERE WOULD BE MORE LIKE SATAN SO THERE FOR HE SENDS THEM ALL TO HELL INSTEAD OF COMPLETLY DISPOSING OF THEM HE MAKES THEM SUFFER FOR ETERNITY. GOD DOES WHAT HE WANTS AND WHAT IS RIGHT. HE KNOWS ALL. HE KNOWS YOU QUESTION HIM. PEOPLE WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND BECAUSE WE ARE IN NO WAY EQUAL TO GOD.

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       earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Not equal to an imagined sky fairy?
       Geeze putting it all in caps made it look much more correct than the lower case losers!

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       Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       It is right to make people suffer for an eternity?
       
       Better hope you never get on the bad side of your god?

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11. 58

    babalon1919posted 13 years ago

    There is no contest between GOD and some disgruntled minion who supposedly HATES mankind.
    
    There is only GOD when you don't have a guilty conscience and GOD when you do have a guilty conscience. If you have skeletons in your closet, you call GOD "Satan."
    
    Satan is the one who gives you a whipping when you don't mind GOD.

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    andromidaposted 13 years ago

    I wish I could personally talk to both God and Satan.

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       Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Talk this orange sunshine acid , and then you can.

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          Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          Take.
          But, no …  don't.
          It won't be the real thing.
          
          http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz9ef_ … amon_music

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             Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

             Boy.
             
             What did you take to meet Satan. Because you would  burn up from the light of God

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                Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                HuH?

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13. 76

    Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago

    what allows God to manifest?
    
      Coud it be... SATAN?

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    1. 75

       Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       SATA N
       Manifest through fear of the religiously impaired.
       
       Now people are sooooo...afraid to die, for then,  people are afraid to live.

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          Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

          "afraid to live" = boring

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             Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

             It sounds like your not happy about something.
             
             You sound like a wife attacking her husband with many problems at once.
             OUT WITH IT, we are your friends here.

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                Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=envY8mo … pp=desktop
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZoI1Klc8WQ

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