God vs. Satan

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Paul Wingertposted 15 years ago
It’s the classic good guy vs. bad guy conflict that makes the Bible an interesting reader. Here's the million dollar question. Since God is the creator and destroyer of all living things, why didn’t He obliterate Satan a long time ago?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In a sensible world, this would be a check-mate question... sadly however...
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  kessposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The question is based on a false premise.
  
  All belongs to God, thus satan is doing his duties for and towards God.
  
  To God he is no enemy, but to men He is the enemy until men comes to the knowledge of truth and satan becomes the tool of man also.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  In order for good to exist, evil must exist.
  
  You cant' have hot water if there is no such thing as cold water, without cold water you can only have tepid(warm) water.
  
  You cannot have a top if there is no such thing as a bottom...
  
  You cannot have a most unless there also exists a least...
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Might it be possible for things to exist without comparative labels?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nope, because if everything is not exactly the same, (which means in all of creation there is only 1 thing, an absolute singularity) if there are two things and they are not two identical halves of the same thing then there are differences. If there are differences then there is a top and a bottom, a greater and a lesser...etc.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Semantics Mikel.
  
  What you mean is "If there is a word called "up" for me to use, I need a comparison called "down" for it to make sense to you.
  
  That doesn't mean "up" or "down" exist - only that you need the words.
  
  And the entire basis of all of your arguments - ever - are to try and justify your irrational belief in something you cannot define.
  
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  no I mean you go up in an elevator, if there is no such thing as down, how do you get home?
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  cosetteposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  but God (who is supposedly good) existed before Satan did...
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Satan is not God's opposite nor is Satan equal to God...
  Satan is a personification of Evil, which is also a part/piece of God but not the total package that the God concept represents.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  God is BOTH good and Evil and is not limited to just one or the other (otherwise God would not be 'omni')
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  Jisblessedposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I believe that God hasn't destoryed satan because God's not a destroyer. But He doesn't deal with evil through free-will. So satan and mankind destorys self. "I set before you life and death, choose life." There's judgement and consequences for every decision made, by satan and by us.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who destroyed Haiti?
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  An earthquake.
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  Paul Wingertposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If God is not a destroyer, then who whiped out Sedum and Gomorrah and destroyed all living things in the Noah story?
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think that it was the little 12 year old boy with acountability for the aint colony.
  "The keeper of the Jar".
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Better Yet why must ALL things die?
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  thevoiceposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We all have good bad inside its just which one you want more God human life freedom peace or hate war death
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  DOUGEEposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  if GOD would have destroyed satan along time ago,then the world would be perfect like heaven,no sufering. and life wouldnt be such a test,maybe GOD didnt destroy satan all ready because to test man to see how ginuine mans love and faith for GOD would be with satan in the world,makes life more toupher,with out satan we wouldnt need faith,another words there wouldnt be a battle or a race, to the finish.im just throwing in thoughts here about your question.heres another thought,hell was created for satan and his demons,but not man,so satan was thrown down here on earth to rome around until hell was open until judgement day,so another words,satan has to wait to to enter into hell just like the sinners that dont except christ.otherwise satan would be sittin in hell now if hell was open,so hes here on earth till judgement day the end and then hes destroyed.so its probally if GOD is having so much mercy on us then hell isnt open yet to destroy satan would be a chane reaction maybe of GODS mercy on us? boy i got an immagination shees.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes ! you should write sci-fi!
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  Twenty One Daysposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  simple: He would violate the 'Free Will Act' He set in motion.
  same as He could not completely destroy humans without giving them a chance to repent. In Lucifer's case, he must destroy himself, sin must consume itself, darkness must consume itself, else G-d is partial.
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  Andrew0208posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Both are Spirits with the reality of the deepest ancient knowledge about the foundations of the earth. God is the father of spirits while satan is a rebellious spirit who always choose to counter God's words and ways with an evil mindset of his pride having same knowledge of immortality. Both can 100% influence mortals on this physical earth. God knows all and satan doesn't.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and here we find material for another novel!
  
  God knows all and Satan doesn't.
  Like they're human beings
  Sure !
  
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  Loves To Readposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Yes this is a question asked by many. However as Satan was one of Gods most beautiful and clever Angels.It was not until God created the Heavens and Earth and all that dwell upon it that Satan became jealous. He then went against God by tricking Eve into eating the apple. Thus exposing the knowlege of good and evil to mankind.
  He could have stopped it right there and then but He gave all mankind a free will.For those like Eve who choose satan's way. They will also choose satan's way to hell. This is an easy way. For those who choose to follow Christ's way we will have our rewards with him in Heaven.
  However God has plenty more room for anyone who would like to change the path they are walking. His door is always open.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  and you too! Write a novel
  
  So by what you say
  free will < sadism of a god.
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  aka-djposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  There is no such thing as God vs. satan.
  It started as "satan vs. God" and it lasted about a billionth of a microsecond. (you know, not very long!) It was "all over, Rover".
  Jesus death on the cross, (well, His resurrection, actually) sealed his fate for all eternity. That was/is the purpose of the Lake of Fire.
  satan is "dead man walking" as they say.
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  Light and Loveposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Paul Wingert wrote:
  
  It's the classic good guy vs. bad guy conflict that makes the Bible an interesting reader. Here's the million dollar question. Since God is the creator and destroyer of all living things, why didn't He obliterate Satan a long time ago?
  
  My answer:
  
  First of all, I no longer believe in Satan. Satan ceases to exist once we understand that we create the evil by believing that it exists. We create the evil within us by not understanding that we are not our body or our mind. That chattering that we hear in our heads. That chattering is a part of our human form. We grow up learning that our bodies are who we are, and we identify with them and think that we ARE our body, but we are more than that. Our minds and bodies are simply tools that we have been given to do the work that our souls have set before us in our lives. Our souls, however, lie deeper than any of our words or labels can touch. Our souls are who we really are. It's the soul that drives us to use our bodies and minds to create, grow and increase 'All That Is'. All That Is is my equivalent to who or what God is. We are all one. We all have a piece of All That Is within us. Our souls, are the part of us that if we could quiet our chattering minds and listen to we would know, are who we truly are. There are no words there, only feelings of knowing. All of our answers can be found there. It's a gift to know our true self.
  
  So, to answer your question, God didn't need to obliterate Satan because Satan only exists to those who believe in evil. There is no Satan in my world, only what I believe is in my world. And, I can change what I don't like by changing my beliefs. That's true of everyone.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  And this is the easy short story.
  So here you arrange and fix your life as it suits you best.
  So you banned Satan from it, forget about Evil and continue to live in a Bubble.
  Evil and Good are not beings. they're only human conditions.
  No God or Devil involved in our actions. Only human emotions.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Love is good; tantrum is evil. I think I've just been converted to believing in good and evil.
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  pjk_artistposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As none of the characters in the bible are actually real there would be no way for God to kill any of them. Satan, like all biblical personifications represents a state of mind that man may attain. Satan, the state of complete disbelief, has been personified along with all the others by men who would use religion to control and influence humanity.
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  Flightkeeperposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The way I heard it was that Satan was a fallen angel. God had banished Satan because Satan refused to bow down before Man as God had commanded all the angels to serve Man. Satan refused to bow because he loved God so much that he wouldn't serve anyone else. In this case, God destroyed Satan by banishing him.
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  topgunjagerposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  the kind of answers you will get from this question are answers pulled right out of some religious nut's asss.
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  brotheryochananposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  its hard to obliviate someone or something that doesn't exist in the first place.
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cosetteposted 15 years ago
i always wondered that too.
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earnestshubposted 15 years ago
God does not take responsibility for anything he created, even satan apparently.
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cosetteposted 15 years ago
did God spank Satan when he misbehaved? just wondering...
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
If you were a chunk of iron ore you might think that the furnace were Hell. But how else are you to become a stainless steel sword. Satan is a tool that is used in creating perfection from the imperfect.
Or something like that.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This answer is "allegorical." Unfortunately, providing an allegory like this doesn't reduce the contradiction. The contradiction is still there to be answered. (Just trying to think about this a bit more...). The problem with this allegory is that a tool does not run around the metal shop tipping things over.
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I take it that you have never been Quale or Duck hunting.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Of all the things I was expecting you to respond with, this may in fact have been the last thing I expected to see you write
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cosetteposted 15 years ago
hmm, interesting.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
Is that a good thing?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ;/ I just meant that your response lost me
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well do you see the answer to your statement?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Does this have something to do with duck-calls
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
Does this have something to do with duck-calls

Jerami says ... I was saying that what you use for tools depend upon what you are wanting to accomplish. A good Dog is the bird hunters favorite TOOL.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OK... The problem with *this* allegory is that a good dog does not run around the metal shop tipping things over (or the woods chewing up bark and uprooting trees, if you prefer)
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think that it is written that what Satan intends for evil ; God turns into "for the good" Satan is being used by God for his purposed what ever they are. Satan is but a pawn on a checker board.
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lyricsingrayposted 15 years ago
Is this a new movie like AVP now GVS?
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Hmmm..... God vs. Satan.

I predict neither one.

They are both imaginary or myth. Neither one can be proven to exist.

Again, I will make my standard rant- Evolution disproves Religion. Science need an extra 40 years to get the job done and finally does so.

Understand- when I speak of science, I encompass, all fields, including philosphy and psychology. Which are both credited fields now, which weren't, when science first attempted to DEBUNK religion's claims.

Science is of the understanding that human beings are the highest cause, for their work.

Religion's cause is supposedly greater than humanity? We don't know anything other than humans? Makes no sense.

Science performs consistency tests on all theories, to ensure accuracy.

Religion claims truth, without factual evidence. Religion was originally formed by mystics and god-kings(those who claim to have a true connection with "GOD"). The limited intelligence of the human race at the time, was no better than that piece of wood.

There was a very limited primitive language, which revolved around the religous/spiritual leader establishments or rulers.

The rulers used religion to enslave people into laboring, for what they wanted in life. Greed, to the extreme. Those who followed religion were enslaved in chains, so as to do the bidding of the rulers.

Jesus knew they were taking advantage of people. Jesus knew there is no god within religion, and it's the main reason for him to tell you not to follow a false god.

Religion's perceived belief for it's code of ethics is chaos would ensue, if humankind isn't lead to believe to answer to a higher power.

It automatically dismisses self-responsibility and conscious thought(free will), so to control people.
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  lyricsingrayposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ya.
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
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theageofcakeposted 15 years ago
God "exists" (not necessarily as an entity, but as humankind's invention) as a representation of good. Now, good is relative - a concept of "good" cannot exist without a counterpart, something that makes the pursuit of "goodness" something admirable, rather than something that just is. This is why "bad" (ie, Satan) exists. Each term depends on the other. So God needs Satan in order to come across as a great guy. We, as mere humans, also require the temptation of evil, so our place with God can feel well-earned.

Its similar in principle to the notion that heroes need villains and vice versa (The Joker makes it a point to mention this in TDK).
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
Where is the false premise?
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
I don't know about villains but character which is (anti-villain+anti-hero) is more interesting than character which is just hero or just villain.

I prefer God vs Satan vs Galactus.
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
Marvel has inspired many more young minds than the Bible has.
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johndetlefsposted 15 years ago
It could just be all part of the master plan? IF we say that God is omnipotent, then he could destroy Satan whenever he wanted to.. and again assuming that he is omnipotent, then we probably wouldn't understand his/her reasoning anyway!
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
Is there anything that exist, good+evil in one ? And is approved by god or in this universe ?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  uh...humanity?
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
Not humanity, i mean something that kicks "bad and good" equally to maintain balance. not sure if religion already mentioned such thing.

Humanity is positive, what i thought of is neither positive not negative,it is just balance.
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Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years ago
Give me a second I'll explain it another way.
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
What if top-bottom, left-rught, etc. are just human inventions to help us navigate a world in which all is one? I think my question and skyfire's are pretty close to the same.
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tantrumposted 15 years ago
As I don't believe in God, I don't believe in Satan.
Good or Bad are human conditions.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I miss your beautiful face, tantrum.
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Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years ago
take a stack of poker chips...

the bottom chip represents absolute goodness.

the top chip represents ultimate evil.

to end evil you have to destroy it...ok remove the top chip and destroy it...
did you destroy evil...no because the next top chip still exists it just became ultimate evil...
go through all the chips and when your down to the last two you still have absolute good and ultimate evil...

to completely destroy evil you would have to destroy both remaining chips...because the top chip even in a stack of one chip, is ultimate evil (when your down to only one chip that chip would also be absolute goodness), which means for goodness to exist evil must exist...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Only in your head. There is no such thing as good and evil outside of a human perspective.
  
  We have invented these terms.
  
  Just as we invented god and satan to represent them -= badly I might add because an omnipotent invisible super being must by definition be 100% good AND 100% evil at the same time.
  
  I mean - there is nothing inherently "evil" in an earthquake. Is there?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  we have invented ALL our human terms... unless you think something other than humans invented them and we stole them?
  
  and yes 100% alpha and 100% omega...exactly right...
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Missed the point.
  
  "Invented human term" is what you are looking for.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As I say, good & bad ,are only human conditions.
  Nature is Nature beyond Good or Bad
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nonsense. Sorry.
  
  Keep on repeating the same thing over and over and over will not make it true - or correct.
  
  Good and evil are a concept in your head only.
  
  Not real people.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  prove it
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The burden of proof is yours. You are the one claiming something.
  
  I am not.
  
  See the cartoon.
  
  You guys are funny.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mark Knowles claims :Nonsense. Sorry.
  
  Keep on repeating the same thing over and over and over will not make it true - or correct.
  
  Good and evil are a concept in your head only.
  
  Not real people.
  
  Mikel says prove it
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOL
  
  But you have not proven your positive.
  
  Why should I have to prove my negative?
  
  LOLOLOLOLOLO
  
  Dear Me.
  
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't mean to be disrespectful Mike, but the logic here seems to be self serving. You've postulated that good and evil exist and then proceed with the poker chips analogy without offering any proof for your original postulation. So it just goes around in a circle as long as the original premise goes unproven.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Which original premise?
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
It's possible to contemplate a stack of poker chips as a single entity with no divisions.
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marcofratelliposted 15 years ago
One bright, beautiful Sunday morning, everyone in the tiny town of Johnstown got up early and went to the local church. Before the services started, the townspeople were sitting in their pews and talking about their lives, their families, etc.

Suddenly, the Devil himself appeared at the front of the congregation. Everyone started screaming and running for the front entrance, trampling each other in a frantic effort to get away from evil incarnate.

Soon everyone was evacuated from the Church, except for one elderly gentleman who sat calmly in his pew, not moving, seemingly oblivious to the fact that God's ultimate enemy was in his presence. Now this confused Satan a bit, so he walked up to the man and said, "Don`t you know who I am?"

The man replied, "Yep, sure do."

Satan asked, "Aren`t you afraid of me?"

"Nope, sure ain't," said the man.

Satan was a little perturbed at this and queried, "Why aren't you afraid of me?"

The man calmly replied, "Been married to your sister for over 48 years."
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  up there I highlighted them for you...
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
So there is balance as per your chip example, isn't it ? Evil and good are our perceptions, right ?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Evil and Good are two words humans created to identify a concept of opposites, to allow humans to communicate that concept easily to one another.
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  One more thing is convenience, what is evil for you doesn't have to be evil for me. You may consider being non-veggie is evil, but i don't. So it is subjective.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  not convenience, perspective... what is evil in my opinion may only be slightly evil to you and not evil at all to a third...
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  not all Evil is subjective.
  Killing other human being is wrong, even if you think you're right in doing so ,and you justify your deed, you know it's wrong.
  Like you know that helping people in need is good.
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But people do justify killing each other, and they even sleep on it knowing that they did it so it makes right. {insert delusion}
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So killing the man that is raping your daughter after he already raped and killed your wife is an evil act?
  
  what about helping that same poor guy back to health from gunshot wounds so he go out and rape and kill my little girls...is that a good act?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As I say in the comment above, Killing is bad even if you justify killing.
  doesn't change the fact.
  for the rapist family, you were wrong.
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
@ marcofratelli

I don't know what's happening to my comments. Anyway, good one!
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marcofratelliposted 15 years ago
Thanks Niteriter!!

I'll leave you with one more:

A lawyer dies and goes to Heaven.
"There must be some mistake," the lawyer argues. "I’m too young to die. I’m only fifty five."
"Fifty five?" says Saint Peter. "No, according to our calculations, you’re eighty two."
"How’d you get that?" the lawyer asks.
Answers St. Peter: "We added up your time sheets."
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Love it! But my question is this: how did a lawyer get to go to Heaven?
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  marcofratelliposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, he wasn't able to screw things up worse for himself as his time on Earth was cut short by a good 30 years!
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
I said convenience, cause if it is not benefiting any particular group/cult then they can portray that thing as evil.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But even if you're killing in the name of some God or country, you know that's nothing good. Maybe you find it necessary, but it's wrong anyway. By universal standards.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Is the lion that kills the antelope evil? It kills...
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We're talking of human beings.
  animals have different minds, I think.They live by instincts.
  Good and Evil are human conditions.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Humans are animals. More advanced than any other animals on the planet granted but animals just the same and we also live by instincts of survival.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  yes, but we have discernment. And we have laws. So our instincts are buried beneath the constitutions.
  
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Do you believe that the rule of law results in justice? Or do you believe in justice at all? (I hate that guy you're with.)
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  
  the guy I'm with is a friend, a make up artist from Costa Rica.
  
  The laws can be just or unfair, because is written by men.
  Man is a very ordinary kind of being, that thinks himself, supreme.
  If we see that believers say that god created us at his own image! what arrogance ! To think we're like gods!!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The electric animation of our psychy is the part of us created in the likeness of God not our human bodies, (the human form is just a cocoon for the 'soul' the animated spark)
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I believe in energy. But I don't believe in God
  I think some lunatic psycho scientist used the Energy to create us.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Niteriter:
  
  tantrum:
  
  I'm betting that the gods are like us! They're our inventions, right?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, by the pictures we have of them, they look quite human to me !
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You have a supernaturally discerning eye! Are you a god?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Tell that to all the murdered people that were murdered by our discerning murderers this year...
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have to tell anything.
  welcome to the world!!
  do you live in a bubble ?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  you said "but we have discernment. And we have laws." I bet those dead people dont agree with your statement, perhaps it is you that lives in a bubble?
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If you believe in God, you know all this people are in Heaven. They are in bliss.
  so It seems, by your believe in God, that it was time for them to move on
  
  I live in a bubble ?
  I think not.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure about heaven... I kind of think that is something made up to comfort the not to bright. Heavenly Retirement where one gets to be a spoiled brat and have there every slighest whim granted sounds childish to me...unrealistic...
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Universal standards ? No. We kill chicken/turkey right ? so we kill another living being for our own sake. So humans know how to defend and kill and try to rationalize these actions. And here in this case we are trying to justify acts of group, so they can kill and sleep on those thoughts without even thinking it is evil and there is no universal standard when it comes to justifying that. It becomes evil if group larger than the killing-group starts to resist it.
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
Do you believe in revenge, Mike?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is a tough one, define revenge and justice...
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think we all know revenge. Justice, on the other hand, is a little trickier to pin down. Who do you think should be responsible to define and then administer justice?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Society...
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
Who in society?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  society's choice...it is usually allocated to the leaders of whatever society. Before modern times it was the strongest man, or the best fighter, because they were hard for anyone else to kill.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We have exchanged the "eye for an eye" system for the rule of law. Lawyers use justice as a source of income. Where does this leave the victim of "injustice"?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Where does it leave anyone who can't afford a lawyer? screwed and with out the benefit of the law or justice... Can you say Feudal system?
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So if someone killed your loved one, is it right for you (who can't afford a lawyer) to solve the problem by taking personal revenge or is it right to do nothing and allow the "rule of law" to solve the problem according to the rules society has agreed upon?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not being able to afford a lawyer to stop a rich man from using his lawyers to 'legally steal' from me is a Lord and a peasant a Feudal system, the lords make the rules are represented by the law and can do anything they want, while the peasants are without lawyers and therefore protection under the law cannot make up or change the rules, and cannot do anything except what the powerful say they can...
  
  the other example of taking 'Justice' in your own hands is kinda a mute point the loved one of yours is dead...so it is too late.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So then, do you think the rule of law is insufficient as a system for maintaining justice in society?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I think it has always come down to the strongest (smartest, richest...etc) making the rules, they are always slanted in the favor of those that make the rules. In a perfect world everyone would have to live by the same rules, in the real world that just isn't the case...
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's beginning to sound a lot like "Survival of the Fittest". Where have we heard that before?
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
This is just our assumption, Galactus and FSM knows the best.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Anything that cannot be proven is assumption, or opinion.
  
  My logic states: If there is a lowest form of life then there has to be a highest... humanity has named this highest form of life God, Yaweh, Allah, the Alpha and the Omega and so on and so on ad nauseum...
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Again either opinion or assumption.
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  tantrumposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  So, as everything is an assumption, why are we discussing this topic?
  I assume it's a dead end.
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Waiting for something that is verifiable i guess ?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No if there are two life forms and one of them is different from the other ....then one of them is the greater...the ultimate form of life is God, by definition of the word God.
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We all are different among our own species then we can compare this with another species. then this goes on with rest of universe. so how is this going to stop ? there is no need to end this cycle by interrupting it with some ultimate.
  
  we have tendency to bow before something greater than ourselves till we find that there is greater than that great thing..
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If there are two and they are not the same one is the greater...
  
  If there is a lowest there has to be a highest...
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This cycle can go on and on as long as we are playing with IF
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Nonsense.
  
  This only applies if you have already decided there MUST be a lowest and a highest and you already know who is the highest and it happens to be GOD You just do not know how to measure this.
  
  Therefore there is a GOD and you cannot disprove it!
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I remember seeing a stickman drawing of this argument somewhere.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  Rubbish.
  
  You are starting from the assumption that there must be a god.
  
  As usual. You cannot disprove it therefore I am right!
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
Reminds me Raelian movement.
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tantrumposted 15 years ago
Bye everybody !!
Have a nice day!
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I'm praying for you!
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Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago
Religious logic is different to real logic.

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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
Mark, are you gonna re-paint the Mona Lisa anytime soon?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now that is one disappointing painting.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  The Sistine Chapel, maybe?
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
Bye tantrum.
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skyfireposted 15 years ago
This one example can't justify whole universe. if all things are either higher life or lower life like that then on earth we are the smartest than any other species,so are we god for them ?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If we are the highest form of life in existence then we are God.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Who makes the judgement about who (what) is smartest?
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Then let me know if any species on this planet is smarter than humans. then question will be like what qualifies for being smartest,right ?
  
  Survival, Managing information and changing the shape of this planet taken into account then i'll say we're smart.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  We don't know what horses, dogs, or whales think because we don't speak their language. And we have assumed that our accomplishments are progress. Are they? Are we truly the smartest creatures on earth?
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If we think our accomplishments are progress then we're into self bias. We're going in circle for this discussion. As i said earlier we ourselves have no set criteria for smartest life on this planet, so it becomes more harder to answer.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I misunderstood. We are in agreement. You can slap me next time!
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  Cagsilposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Untrue. Humanity can establish progress and be smarter than animals on life, simply because our society is evolved conscious, rational, reasoned thoughts and be able to put action behind it.
  
  Animals are simply guided by Nature, which comes from the evolution of Earth's living movement forward.
  
  We, as a human beings, can establish we are better than animals. The problem is the level of morality, for which, exists on Earth presently. It is at it's lowest levels ever.
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Niteriterposted 15 years ago
@Mike: The premise that good and evil exist. There are many thinkers who believe that things (events) are neither good nor bad... they just are.
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  skyfireposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Exactly. I guess even he agrees to it, but let him answer anyway.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Are you guys substituting the words good for God and evil for Satan?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Good and Evil as I said earlier are two words created by humanity to convey a concept of two opposites. Mankind has defined these accepted concepts...
  
  Proving everything that exists and labeling them as good or evil with scientific disertations...is that what your looking for?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  ok how would you describe a person that rapes and cuts little babies into small pieces? What are they?
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  They are human beings with very serious psychological problems. In nearly every case, a socially destructive person has been a victim of abuse at some point in his/her life, most often in the early years. A victim of such a person can be compared to a victim of a car crash where the offending driver failed to maintain the safe operation of his vehicle.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  so everytime you need to convey that descriptive information your going to say all that?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  This is how you convey complex meanings Mikel. One word is usually insufficient.
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Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years ago
if evil doesn't exist describe for me what these words mean...

1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked: harmful; injurious: characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: bad conduct marked by anger, irritability, irascibility: the force in nature that governs and gives rise to wickedness and sin. the wicked or immoral part of someone or something: harm; mischief; misfortune:a harmful aspect :the evil one, the devil; Satan.

or how about these...

sinful, iniquitous, depraved, vicious, corrupt, base, vile, nefarious. bad . pernicious, destructive. . wickedness, depravity, iniquity, unrighteousness, corruption, baseness. disaster, calamity, woe, misery, suffering, sorrow.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  They are words Mikel.
  
  Not real people. And some of them absolutely do not exist.
  
  Unless you can prove it of course.
  
  See - this is how it works. You say it exists - now you prove it.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That is a snare and I am not a rabbit! Sorry, Mike, but I think we're going around in circles now. If you want to believe that evil exists then I respect you for that. I believe something else which does not include an assumption that good or evil are entities unto themselves.
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
I am apologizing right now if I am not expressing my self properly. I just came home and was reading many threads and post and I asked my self what is wrong with this PICTURE.
I am rambling and am not thinking about what I am saying in the proper literary seance. I have had a BAD DAY!!!!

WHO DO WE THINK THAT WE ARE???????????

"Who do we think that we are". Let me tell ya what I think that we are. With all of our self perceived importance we are little more than an ant colony in a 12 year olds bedroom !!!
We depend upon somebody or something to throw a little bit of life sustenance upon the surface in order for us to survive.
That 12 year old is our god by any one's definition.
Satan then becomes that 12 year old's..... forgetfulness, distractions, bad attitudes etc. etc..
What right do we have to bitch if he doesn't help us find our car keys. Or why should we blame that 12 year old if we allow a small segment of "OUR Humanity" to starve or let some little girl get raped or some one's daddy be murdered by one of our own.
After all he is just the keeper of the Jar.
But he is much more than that.
Do we deserve more???
If there is no after life then we have no "RIGHTS" to bitch out the little kid.
And if there is more than that and I want to believe that there is..
Please leave me with my peace of mind,that can I find for myself with the thought of an after life.

After all; the life force that carries us through life is an energy and science tells us that energy is not eliminated but displaced to another location.
And for all of you Atheist... Why do you want to burst my bubble????
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tantrumposted 15 years ago
Because it's a bubble
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That shouldn'r be...... , Aint it enough thay you got the biggest one .... I wanta have some air in my too.
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AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years ago
Can anyone lend me a pickup truck. (I'm in Canada )
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  Jeramiposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Sure I can do that. Have ya got Gas money?
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Mmmmm. Your profile does not indicate your location. Is it far? I live about twelve hours driving northeast from Boston, then a six hour ferry, then another nine or ten hours. How much is gas where you live.
  Oh, and can you be here around nine. That's seven-thirty EST
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thevoiceposted 15 years ago
The whole point is how do we help all human life in all times of life. what you believe is you right not helping all humanity is wasted lives on earth. The forces that be want human separation so this world of hell will go on making profit from weapons labor abuse raping human life as it goes.
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AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years ago
I don't agree that you can't have good without evil. Why not. Why can't you have good and simply absence of good (neutral, so to speak). I'm open to suggestions to the contrary however.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Neutral is the middle ground, good and evil are the polar opposites on either side of the middle ground.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But why do you have to have things this way. I mean couldn't it be the way I describe. I don't mean necessarily ARE things that way, just... couldn't they be that way at least in theory.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  polar opposites exist, you can't have differences and not have opposites...
  
  if the hottest possible temperature is 100 the coldest possible temperature is -100 the neutral temperature is 0. changing the values for, (or names-of) those concepts doesn't negate the existence of the opposite to any of those values.
  
  if we change the maximum hottest temperature to 12 the middle/neutral shifts to -39 and we still have what we had before...A highest, a lowest and a middle.
  
  The only way to not have a hottest is to have only ONE temperature and that's it which also destroys the concept of coldest...
  
  Now replace the words hottest with evil and coldest with good and you may see my point.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I see your point, but I still don't see why it has to be that way. Take an example from another thread from this evening.
  
  Chocolate cake. What is the polar opposite of chocolate cake. There is none. But there is "absence of chocolate cake." Why couldn't it be the same for good (if by good and evil we are talking about cosmic forces, or something, which is what I would take something like the Devil, so-called, to be)
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Now your just trying to label something with out defining what it is exactly... what exactly is 'chocolate cake'?
  break it down into it's ingredients, identify the opposites to all of the ingredients ...
  put all of the opposite ingredients together see what that makes and there you have chocolate cake's opposite.
  
  If there are differences in anything, then there is also an opposite, to whatever degree they are opposite.
  
  chocolate cake is a complex example I chose temperature because it is a simpler concept to make understood. I have also attempted the use of a stack of poker chips, sliced bread, algebra(positive and negative numbers), ad naseum...
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  If I understand you, if something is complex it is harder to find a true opposite for it, but if it is simpler, its opposite is more evident/obvious.
  
  If this is so, then good is a simpler thing rather than a complex thing like cake. Have I got you...
  
  On the other hand, even if this is right (and if I have read you correctly), I don't see why cake has to be seen as complex. Why couldn't cake be a simple, unitary concept? But maybe that's another story
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  No good is even more complex than chocolate cake.... TEMPERATURE is less complex than both and therefore easier to use to convey the concept about the more complex concepts of good and evil and of chocolate cake and it's opposite.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  OK. I was assuming that you were arguing by analogy.
  In other words:
  - temperature is like good in certain respects (ie, its simplicity(?))
  - temperature has an opposite
  - so I can show by analogy that good has an opposite.
  
  However, if you were simply giving parallel examples of other things that also have a polar opposite (hot versus cold, top versus bottom), that would have been unnecessary for me, because I already understand the idea that good versus evil are two poles, in a scheme of good versus evil.
  
  I understand the idea. I am asking however if the idea HAS to be valid all the time.
  
  For example, take "up." In some situations there is up and there is down. Fine, no problem.
  But in other situations there is only up. If I am sitting on the ground there is only up. There is no down.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  You can always dig your way down
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  if your on the lowest that doesn't negate the lowest...
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Ok. Seeing as Cagsil introduced morality (and let's face it surely this is what this thread was meant to be about), why couldn't you have a world with only two types of people: neutral people, and good people
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  what would be halfway in between the neutral people and the good people?
  
  simply calling the two ends by a different name does not change the fact they are the opposites...
  
  calling the concept we represent with the word evil, naughty doesn't change the concept it only renames it...
  
  calling the hottest temperature 12 instead of 100 only renames it, it is still the hottest temperature...
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  But if we skirt the analogies and stick to the generally-agreed meanings of good and evil, there could be a world where there are lots of people doing good (like Mother Theresa-style), and lots of people minding their own business, going to work, doing their washing, paying their taxes, not kicking the dog, being polite to their wife or husband, etc, and no-one else. We wouldn't call this second type of person evil... this would be to bend the meaning of the word away from what everyone agrees it means.
  
  I am not saying that we live in a world like that, just that it is theoretically possible.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  As I state in one of my hubs...doing Good and only good is the doing of evil to evil. Because it hurts evil which is good, but hurting as well which is evil.
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
Excuse me people?

Good without Evil?

Evil without Good?

These are F***ing words. Human's way to recognize morality.

GOD doesn't exist, that good isn't a reality.
SATAN doesn't exist, that evil isn't reality.

When you people STOP and figure out what the hell you are talking about, then you might get somewhere? Who knows?

You CAN have an entire race of humans who are GOOD- the evil just would be somewhere else, not here.

Parent taught children morality, the real understanding of the damn word, then generation after generation, would turn the human race into one lump sum of good people.

Humankind IS NOT Evil at the core. Every human being is a good person at the core. It is the basis for morality. A Civilized way to live and grow.

Damn, I wish people would get to the underlying meaning, before they spout nonsense.
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Not that you are not spouting nonsense yourself Ray.
  
  I think there is much more to good and evil than just morality, and I agree to Mikel, one is not possible without another - like heads and tails. The trick is to make a Möbius coin, then you become a Buddha and laugh all the way to cemetery
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Great! another 'Big' I have to look up...again...
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  That's kinda Kewl...
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Glad you liked it
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  A blue fish
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Hey, what about blue fish? I can't find anything sensible
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Just following the whole mobius business... isn't a Mobius strip a sort of optical illusion that kind of makes no sense... like a blue fish (a blue fish was the answer to the old joke: How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb)
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Gotcha about blue fish - did not know this variant of the joke LOL.
  
  And no, Mobius strip is not an optical illusion, you can do one yourself, you just need a strip and some glue. It is real - as much as reality is real.
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I know that you can make one, so they are real in that sense. But isn't the point "philosophically" that the eye can't make sense of them all the same
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Oops, I guess you have to translate this into first-grader English if you want me to understand
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  AdsenseStrategiesposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  I thought that a Mobius Strip is one of those things where your eyes go "Hey, I don't get this. How can that be"
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  Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Well, it's definitely one of the facets. Yet the facet I was using in this conversation is illustration of unity of the opposites. It makes two into one.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6bius_strip
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Jeramiposted 15 years ago
Satan is kinda like the guy that takes your car all apart, dunks those greasy parts in acid.
Then GOD (the certified mechanic) puts all tha pieces back together before you can drive it back home.
cooks supper and does what your husband tells ya to do.
Just kidding about that last part. HA HA ??????
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Mikel G Robertsposted 15 years ago
And here we go again....
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Cagsilposted 15 years ago
So, I guess what you're saying is that "God's Will" is to be followed to the letter and knowledge is evil?
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ExcitedMomOf4posted 15 years ago
I normally don't get involved in discussions of this nature, because ultimately people will believe what they want to believe no matter how many times someone tries to convince them otherwise; however, I found it disheartening to read so many negative posts here, so I feel the need to throw my two-cents in.
It is a sad world we live in where more and more people choose not to believe in an Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient God. It is troubling that there are so many humans who have no hope of anything past this mortal life.
It is truly sad that people trust the brakes on their car to work when they press the pedal, but don't trust that there is a God above who loves us, cares for us, and provides for us in our time of need.
Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I've never seen the Eiffel Tower in person, but I believe it exists. I've never seen the Dead Sea, but I believe it's there. And I've never seen God face to face, but I believe that we all will when our time is done here on Earth. Whether or not you believe it, that doesn't make it untrue. But don't take my word for it: When you die, and you stand before God to answer for all the times you tried to disprove Him, you will see that He does, in fact, exist. And you will know that you've made a mistake in believing a lie...but it will be too late.

I will be praying for those who choose not to believe in God, and I don't really care if you don't want me to pray for you, or if you disagree with my post. I will pray anyway, I will believe anyway, and I will cling to the hope that somehow you will find God to be real and worthy.
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  Niteriterposted 15 years agoin reply to this
  Most people who choose to not believe in God made their choice because they found God's so-called "promises" had no currency when they were called upon.
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  (Q)posted 15 years agoin reply to this
  When you do get involved in discussions like this, you should have some respect for others rather than insulting them with pompous, arrogant superiority. Of course, that's the Christianity within you reaching out.
  
  Troubling is not the word one would use for such insolence.
  
  Do you want to know what's really sad? Those who believe their gods care and provide for them when so many others must live in abject poverty where death is their only escape. Those believers are sickening to the core of their beliefs.
  
  When one begins to compare reality with their religious beliefs, they fail miserably, not only due to the fact that such claims are fallacious, but also the fact they are unable to demonstrate their beliefs, while the price of an airline ticket will easily demonstrate the Eiffel Tower and the Dead Sea.
  
  Many Christians, or in fact, many of those of any other religion don't seem to understand they too are in the same predicament, hence that argument is moot.
  
  When you die, you run the risk of standing before Allah, for example, who will judge you for believing in the lies of Christianity.
  
  Of course, that thought never occurred to you, did it?
  
  Yes, cling to the magical and the mysterious while the ground beneath falls away.
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nadiaazharposted 15 years ago
i feel satan is free to roam around cause GOD has given us(we human)chances to make choices between good n bad,and we spend our lives in making choices!!in a way reason to live!
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ThePhoneDetectiveposted 15 years ago
The answer is simple, and cheap at $49.95

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twzXR38CMWA

Daytona
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