Is life after death illogical?

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   promisemposted 8 years ago

   I just awoke after a normal night of sleep. I have no conscious memory of anything because I was unconscious.
   
   If I have no consciousness when I sleep, how can I have it when I am dead?

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      aguasilverposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      But you were still an entity, and perhaps you were simply unaware that you were existing and (possibly) still active on a spiritual level?
      
      When we die, we leave this temporal realm behind, what we need to decide is where we spend our eternal existence, in a place we maybe cannot yet understand.
      
      "Now we see in part, as through a glass darkly, but then we will see clearly" comes to mind.
      
      Not being aware of our spiritual identity does not make it less real, just something to try and seek and attain before we achieve eternity.

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         janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         What is the purpose of a brain and body if the "spirit" can exist without it?

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            aguasilverposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            We are spiritual beings temporarily (as in temporal) inhabiting a human form, we come from spirit (as we are actually spiritual entities) and return to spirit.
            
            The body is a vehicle, the brain part of it's operating system, RAM and ROM combined, when we have spent our time and our decision has been demonstrated, we return to our spiritual (eternal) existence, to spend it where we have chose to spend eternity.
            
            Some folk become aware of this, some never work it out, all choose their eternal destiny by their belief (or lack of it) their words, thoughts, actions and deeds.

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         promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         If I am not aware of my spiritual level, then there is no spiritual level that I can call mine.
         
         I do believe a spirtual level exists, but it does belong to me. It is simply something I'm aware of when I am conscious and not aware of when I am unconscious.

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            aguasilverposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Kind of like not having a TV receiver?
            
            You KNOW that the signals are there, but deny their existence due to not having a receiver?

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               promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               I know the signals are there and I don't deny their existence. If they exist outside of myself, if I simply sense them and require consciousness to sense them, then they are not mine and have no meaning or purpose in my death.

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                  God shetposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Who are you?
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  It's a sincere question from me. Please don't report over it. I'm prepared to clarify myself why I ask this question, if you choose to answer.

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                     promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     I'm a nobody who has had some interesting experiences in life and tries to think as clearly as possible about what they mean.

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                        Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        Dream and imagination have been the greatest source for ideals. With your good idea your most of the way to your destiny, then you must work your idea in order to prove to yourself this is your destiny.
                        
                        They have not worked out the spiritaul world called heaven for 1000s of years.

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                        God shetposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        What do you think you are made of?

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                  Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  God Shet seems to be interested in you, promisen. You seem to have piqued his curiosity. He can be a smart and challenging conversationalist. If, that's what he wants that is.

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                     God shetposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     +1!

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                  aguasilverposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Unless, as I propose, you are actually a spiritual entity (or should I say part of a spiritual entity?) that is overwhelmed by the conditioning of the world 'you' have been inserted in, to experience and deal with as either spiritual relationship, or flesh, as you desire?

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                     Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     Think your close to a truth there, aquasilver. This is true: A mother gave her child up at birth, didn't even hold the newborn. Knew absolutely nothing of the other for over 40 years. No connections whatsoever. When they finally did meet they eventually counted over 25 extremely close synchronicities between themselves that were stunning. How does one explain something like that? You'd have better odds of hitting the state lottery tomorrow. Jung's collective unconscious? Not imho. Something else was going on.

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                     promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     I believe I am a physical entity with access to a spiritual domain. No amount of study and effort over decades has proven to me that I am entirely a spiritual entity or that I have been conditioned to think otherwise.

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                        God shetposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        That's too wonderful an answer.

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      wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Illogical?  Probably, simply because it has been claimed for thousands of years  now but no one has ever been able to provide even the slightest bit of evidence that it is true.
      
      That, however, does not mean that it is NOT true; it may be.

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         promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, I agree completely. Going back to my post above, it's a question for me of whether spirituality belongs within us or outside of us.
         
         We may be aware of it either way, but that doesn't mean we take it with us when we die.

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      Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Rationally to me, says no existence with what man and many of the animals on this earth would be created without reason, with all that can be learned, would cease to exist - change perhaps, but it makes no sense to have beings like us only for a flash in eternity. We may all be on a long journey to heaven and/or metaphysical truth. It's better than the alternative.

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      Lucid Psycheposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      There is a large body of evidence to support a belief in life after death. Whether your waking conscious remembers what happened while your brain was resting may not be very important.

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         promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Can you provide an example of that evidence from a credible source? I'm asking sincerely.
         
         I believe what happens when I am unconscious matters a lot. If I can't be aware of spirit when I am unconscious, it won't mean anything to me when I am dead.

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            Lucid Psycheposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            This is by no means complete and hastily done but here is a beginning for now.
            "After ill health forced him to resign his post as professor of logic and ethics at Columbia University in 1902, James Hervey Hyslop (1854-1920) became a full-time psychical researcher.  In 1904, he organized the American Institute for Scientific Research, which was to be devoted to the study of abnormal psychology and psychical research."
            Dr. Hyslop:
                 “The academic world is blind to the needs of the hour and has isolated itself as in aristocratic seclusion from contact with the life of those who are ruling the tendencies of the future.  It is left, as it apparently has always been, to the outside world to find leaven for the regeneration, and if any spiritual ideal be discovered it must be in the little beacon lights that shine out from the residual and neglected phenomena of mind which promise as wide an extension in psychological knowledge as the new discoveries in the material world have produced in physical science.”
            “Personally I regard the fact of survival after death as scientifically proved.  I agree that this opinion is not upheld in scientific quarters.  But this is neither our fault nor the fault of the facts.  Evolution was not believed until long after it was proved.  The fault lay with those who were too ignorant or too stubborn to accept the facts.  History shows that every intelligent man who has gone into this investigation, if he gave it adequate examination at all, has come out believing in spirits; this circumstance places the burden or proof on the shoulders of the skeptic.”
            
            Sir William Crookes was the preeminent scientist of his day and was chosen to investigate claims of life after death precisely because of his skepticism and hostility to the idea of the supernatural. As a result of his investigation he came away utterly convinced. To say the least this was a shock to the scientists who charged him to investigate. They summarily dismissed his findings and then began a campaign to discredit him. The same type of dishonesty continues today.
            
            Life after death has been scientifically proved 5 times as I remember off the top of my head. Even though the evidence was aboveboard and good enough for any other field of scientific endeavor it is dismissed only because the philosophy of Materialism holds absolute sway as the only possible interpretation of scientific findings.
            
            A more recent example is the Scole Experiments which produced amazing evidence and convinced the skeptics that participated.
            
            There's also the testimony of Dr. Eben Alexander a neurosurgeon and former skeptic.
            
            Dr. Jeffrey Long, Evidence of the Afterlife: The Science of Near-Death Experiences.
            Smashes skeptics objections to NDEs. Great book.
            
            The Afterlife Experiments, Dr. Gary Schwartz.
            
            Here's the crux of the issue from my perspective. If one example of life after death is admitted to then Philosophical Materialism is utterly destroyed. That can not be allowed to happen.
            
            This is only a brief attempt to cover some of the material available.

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               Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               Very good post, lucid. Didn't William James say to the effect that it wasn't necessary to prove all crows are black by proving that they all are, but by proving just one isn't to upset the scientific assumption that they all are?

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                  God shetposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Something like that said Van Velsing, that professor in the novel "Dracula". Read it just a few days ago. It was something like that 'the criminal mind works on impetus, because the criminal mind is selfish, and thus it puts limitations on its own thoughts and actions; while the noble mind discovers principles and works depending on them, and thus its free'. He was obviously trying to pin down and kill Count Dracula.
                  
                  
                  “Well, you know what we have to contend against; but we, too, are not without strength. We have on our side power of combination—a power denied to the vampire kind… We have self-devotion in a cause, and an end to achieve which is not a selfish one. These things are much.”  (Ch. 18, pp. 288-289)

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                  wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  That's true.  What one cannot do, however, is decide that "I think there is a yellow crow out there somewhere (although I've never found it) and therefore science is wrong in saying all crows are black".
                  
                  Deciding there is life after death, without know it to be true (and no, it has never been proven) does not mean it is true.

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                     God shetposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     ab so

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                        Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                        What you say is true, wilderness. But where does science and reality meet? Is science an absolute and we know it all? That must be taken into the equation. Make any sense at all?

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                  Lucid Psycheposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                  Absolutely true. Naturalism / Materialism must insist that the "natural" world by it's definition is all that exists (all it's crows are black forever and ever amen). The reason being that if one example of proof contrary to the dogma of Naturalism is accepted then the whole edifice crumbles because the principle by which it operates has been proved incorrect. That standard has been met and exceeded and it is only the dishonesty of it's adherents that keeps Naturalism in place as the singular interpreter of the vast amount of evidence that supports a rational belief in life after death.
                  I think it's worth quoting Hyslop again, "Personally I regard the fact of survival after death as scientifically proved.  I agree that this opinion is not upheld in scientific quarters.  But this is neither our fault nor the fault of the facts."

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                     Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

                     You make your point very well. It makes sense for me that we do have that "eternal spark" that maybe changes and evolves. It makes reason to me also that if one felt this way, "what, why, and wherefore" would rest easier in one.

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      If your happiness is dependent on the material world during your lifetime, you will be dependent on it afterwards. But, its not there… so you mostly sleep. If you become aware, during life, of the realm beyond the physical, and are no longer dependent on it for happiness, you will be happy afterwards, as you will be awake/aware in great joy and creativity on the astral plane.
      Until you are centered in Spirit on the causal plane and realize yourself to be Spirit, which never sleeps, you will be awaking and sleeping, whether on the earth or on the astral plane, according to need.
      I would guess.

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         Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         You know a thing or two about this, Kathryn, impressive.

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   Castlepalomaposted 8 years ago

   Nobody knows until you get there and no turning back to tell the others the truth.

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   Oztinatoposted 8 years ago

   Ever had a "dream" that you "remembered"?

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      promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Good question. Yes, sometimes. But most of the time I don't remember anything.
      
      Based on your question, you could make the argument that it's possible to be aware of spirt after death in a limited way.
      
      But then again, have you ever gone under anesthesia for surgery? I have, and I don't remember a single second of it.

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         God shetposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         The dream(s) that we dreamed last night (which we couldn't recall after waking) - even that very dream(s) - seem to leave some effect on the waking hours that follow. I'm speaking from personal experience.

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   Popitposted 8 years ago

   We are all made of energy, the electrical pulses in a neurotransmitter in the brain for example.)  It is, (so far) believed to be impossible for that energy to cease to exist.  So where does it go when someone dies?

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      wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      The electrons stop flowing in the conductors (nerves).  The remain fixed to a specific atom.  Although they still exist, it does not mean you are still alive.

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         Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Your energy may transform into a better person to be reborn. Or it may turn into the next meal worm in these huge cosmic soup. Who knows? God, we may all be god, and all connected in the Universe.

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            Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            A spirit can not regress, only move forward.

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         Popitposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         So the electrons still exist even though the corporal does not, that is my point.  To think that sentient beings are just corporal is understandable, if you have never been present at the death of someone.  People who work with the dying, day in day out, will tell you the rooms pretty crowded, even when there is only the patient there.

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            wildernessposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Yes, and the guide for a haunted house tour I took just yesterday told us the house was full of spirits.  People say the darndest things, don't they?

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               Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

               And experience the darndest things too.

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   Live to Learnposted 8 years ago

   I don't consider life after death illogical. A baby in a womb probably couldn't fathom life outside of it. A caterpillar probably couldn't imagine life as a butterfly.
   
   I'm not saying there is life after death. Simply saying it is not outside of the realm of possibility.

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      promisemposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Agreed, although if I can't be conscious of it, I have no reason to look forward to it.

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         Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         You, me, everyone - living things, have an eternal "spirit" that cannot be destroyed once created. The deep unconscious knows all. It is connected directly to the creation. Sometimes its knowledge seeps through to consciousness, like when a person has an intuitive feel for something that comes to pass soon.

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         Live to Learnposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         That's probably why they refer to it as an afterlife. Not a continuation of life.

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   Alastar Packerposted 8 years ago

   Meal Worm sounds an unfortunate happening.

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   MsEmmposted 8 years ago

   If you are going to base in the bible, it is not.

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      Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      Who are you referring to, Ms Emm? Castle or me or is it a general statement?

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         Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         I'm still waiting on Ms Emma's clarification.

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            Castlepalomaposted 8 years agoin reply to this

            Miss my Mother and Father so much I wish to think they are in a better place. Or my imagination pretents to speck to them like they were ghost among us. That energy of the imagination may comfort me for those moments, is it, or was it real?  We'll never know, my father may of transformed into a sand crab for all we know.

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   God shetposted 8 years ago

   They're electrons ('electricity') inside a brain. That's all.

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   God shetposted 8 years ago

   When the (dead) body is burnt in a chamber the electrons are still inside the brain - but - they're looking for a safe escape. And when the fire consumes them - unwillingly - they merge into that engulfing electromagnetic radiation that they call fire (is 'fire' really radiation? who knows!) - and become unified into the massive brain of the universe! 

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      Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

      I'm just a layman with all this- a babe in the woods. Your theory is intriguing, besides, electricity can't be destroyed either. Adios for now Anders, business you know.

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         God shetposted 8 years agoin reply to this

         Saw your profile picture in hd-quality, on twitter. You look cool there. The skin at the edge of your left elbow-joint looked a bit tensed. Guess that's well now.

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    centfieposted 8 years ago

    Thought provoking.
    People desparately try to save lives, even those who believe that death takes them to better places. I think humans know death is a state of nonexitence that is why even those who want to go to better places (through death) but still do not want to die

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       Alastar Packerposted 8 years agoin reply to this

       Good post, centfie.

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