what's your own view about gay marriage

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seyiariposted 14 years ago
i will really like to know your own opinion about gay marriage . are you in support of it or not?
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  Lady_Eposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I just think the world has changed so much. We even have gay pastors. It's got to the point now that I think people should be left to marry whoever or whatever. It's their choice.
  
  Am I in support of it? Sorry, no comment cos it doesn't affect me.
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No I am definitely not in support of gay marriage.
  
  It is in complete contrast to civil society and family values.
  
  That is what The Manhattan Declaration is all about, speaking up for civil society and family values.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Calling it the Manhattan Declaration is a bit of a misnomer, since most Manhattanites have a different concept of civil society and family values than you do.
  
  May I suggest:
  - The Taleban Declaration
  - The Ahmadinejad Declaration
  - The Falwell Declaration
  - The Fred Phelps Declaration
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  Gregg Biancciposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please do explain how this is in complete contrast to civil society and family values, I'd really like to hear what you have to say, I'm sure it's well supported and not bigotry at all...
  
  Why is it that Christians can always find a reason not to accept someone else?
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Opposition to gay marriage is denying families. Gay marriage is not destroying values.
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  waynetposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sure if you are thinking of getting married then do so, so long as you both wear something individual as the same colour suit would clash slightly or the same wedding dress.
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  Himitsu Shugishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is a tough question to answer because no matter which way you answer it, it sounds pretentious. To be honest, I don't really care what anyone does, straight or gay, when it comes to matters of the heart. That's their business. However, if I'm forced to answer either way, I guess I'm for it. Again, why should I have a say into who someone chooses to spend the rest of their life with.
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  NunezWillLearnposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As a human I do accept it because everybody has the choice of living. But as a mother it's upsetting. Because we all like to live in the relevant and known world. Still this concept is brand new for many, also for me. God knows what will i do or how will i react if my son or daughter does something like this.
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  Paradise7posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please don't worry. At least it's a committed relationship. Look at Ellen Degeneres. They're good.
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  cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sure, why not?
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shazwellynposted 14 years ago
live and let live babes. Love peace and harmony x
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Freedom is the most important thing in the world.
so, yes, I support gay marriages.
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Elle Harrisposted 14 years ago
I support Gay Marriage.
What could it possibly do to harm society?
It's not as if heterosexual couples have the best track records when it comes to marrige. Not within the last decade at least.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you want to be responsible for the death and destrution it bring to the world and all humanity! If we allow this there will be a series of natural disasters so devastating even the cockroaches will be killed! Earthquakes, valcanoes, asteroids, fire ants and floods all of Biblical porportions! If you don't believe in the Bible it means really bad!
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Completely agree. I will honor a persons privilege to cohabitate with someone of the same sex or not of the same. I don't approve of it but will be tolerant of the person. The term and institution of marriage, however, is of such high magnitude and of such a high and holy union it cannot and should not be desecrated. This, however, has already taken place and the union's importance has been reduced into the dysfunction of a fallen society. We've begun the slippery slide and I hope the time is not far spent for us to make reparations for our country and world. The time is now to prepare ourselves spiritually in every way for the judgements about to befall us.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  what judgment is going to befall ?
  sure it will befall on you, for blaming part of the dysfunction of society on gay people
  
  BTW,sneak was being funny !
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Again you misunderstand. It is not blaming that segment at all. It is the compilation of spiraling moral compromises that we have been engaged in for many years that will qualify us, as a civilization, for correction. I isolate no one. Each of us have our downfalls that we have either neglected, enhanced or choose to acknowledge as being acceptable. The option to not self correct is dangerous and prideful. Correction will be made whether by us, individually, or by Someone else.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't think I misunderstand you. We're talking about gay marriages in this thread.
  
  And this are your words:
  
  'I don't approve of it but will be tolerant of the person. The term and institution of marriage, however, is of such high magnitude and of such a high and holy union it cannot and should not be desecrated. This, however, has already taken place and the union's importance has been reduced into the dysfunction of a fallen society.'
  
  And now
  What correction are you talking about?
  Are you saying homosexuality has to be corrected ??
  
  No comments.
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  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As states before we all have corrections. To put it bluntly, yes, homosexuality does qualify for correction just as adultery, stealing, vulgar use of language, murder incest and any other offense before our Maker. Yes, that is my opinion but as just portrayed it does not place me on any higher ground than any of the above populations. It is my belief that the union of marriage is holy and was, is and will always be meant to be between man and woman. It is core to the family unit which is core to society.
  
  I accept that I am in the minority here and that's OK with me. As a matter of personal integrity I will always stand by my beliefs especially when challenged. At least give me that much credit. I applaud you for your courage in always stating your thoughts. I more often than not retain my thoughts within. Just as you and I had a little discussion a few days ago on the thread of the use of questionable pictures on HP we exchanged opinions and eventually let it be. That's part of the magic of this medium.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Biblical Proportions. Love it !
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Link Biblical proportions with Knowing a woman in the Biblical sense and everybody's happy!
  Now if you'll excuse me I have some Nuns to attend to lol...
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  SimeyCposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hmmm I was taught that we would be judged in Heaven when we die based on our actions. If (and this is a very big if!) gay marriage is a sin, then those that marry will be judged - not sure why God would pick on the rest of us just because we didn't stop them!
  
  Personally, I do not care - it has absolutely no effect on me, does not change my world, doen't increase my taxes, doesn't make me less happy, doesn't effect my health...etc....
  
  What people do with their lives is up to them - didn't God give us free will....I didn't see the small print that says "free will too all mankind (except those Gay people!)".....
  
  So yep I support it...in this day and age a little bit of happiness goes a long way!
  
  Ummm I guess I should read the whole thread eh - apparently Sneak was being 'tongue in cheek'?!
  
  **Just had a funny thought**
  
  Does every man who protests about Gay Marriage, leave the room in disgust when the lesbian scene comes on? I think not!!!
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  SSSHHHHH!!!!!!! Man, I had the gays about to switch gears! Look just follow my lead, ok? They won't get it any way they aren't that bright they think they're the other sex! I guess they never checked?
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You'll be able to find plenty of dumb gay people in Richard Cohen's International Ex-Gay Ministry (which Make Money can vouch for working miracles). They apparently can be fooled into "switching gears"
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  XTASISposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  cheaptrickposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Come on man
  Nothing kills roaches!
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B52 Bomberposted 14 years ago
It sucks.
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Elle Harrisposted 14 years ago
Right. Silly me.
Two men/women who love one another.
Signing a piece of paper.
Legally becoming married.

Chao will occur. We'll all die.
Why didnt I think of that before.
-_-
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Frugal Fannyposted 14 years ago
Love is hard enough to find without society telling you that you have to deny your sexuality and keep to the opposite gender. Gay couples should have the freedom to express their love for their partners in the same way that straight couples do, imo, so I support gay marriage.
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Frugal Fannyposted 14 years ago
Just curious, but who wears the wedding dress, and who wears the tux in a gay marriage?
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they assign a pitcher and a catcher.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
OF COURSE !
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Make Moneyposted 14 years ago
Richard Cohen has helped thousands of people come out of homosexuality at the International Healing Foundation.
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Frugal Fannyposted 14 years ago
Certainly open-mindedness qualifies as a virtue, does it not? If it does, and I do believe it does, then I am indeed virtuous...because I don't believe gay people require "correction", and I don't believe they should in any way be likened to adulterers/murderers/etc. People who think *that* way are the ones in need of correction. Or maybe a serious reality check.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agree!
  but try to make them understand !
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  Frugal Fannyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rather like banging one's head against a brick wall.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You know sex outside of marraige is considered adultery, right? Ok, well you got virtue down, now lets work on moral, ok?
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  Frugal Fannyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's only adultery if you are married and having sex with someone other than your partner, or you are having sex with a married person, So hush, you! :p
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well! I never!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Frugal Fannyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes you did, admit it. :p
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart".
  
  (What's the world coming to, when a rationalist has to 'correct' a Christian, unless, of course, Jesus was just joking?)
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  Frugal Fannyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  If, by correcting a christian, you are referring to me... sorry, but I'm not a christian. Or catholic, for that matter.
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  Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK, sorry - I just thought the 'official' definition of adultery was worth throwing into the pot
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So not are they only gay they're adulterers! Oh! What a world!
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A reality check?
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. Reality check. They don't have any idea what is real. They just have in their heads what they think goes on.
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I see a reality check coming and the world isn't going to like it. But, what my opinion on the subject is of much debate, because I myself, don't give a rats a$$, what people think.
  
  I know, that through the knowledge I've learned, and I'm also of the understanding that I have grasped on to the entire topic, and reviewed it from all aspects, and have drawn my own conclusion, as I have for a great number years, that the issue itself doesn't have merit.
  
  On one hand, you have people who want their freedom to do whatever it is that they please. I get that, because I am an advocate for "Right to Life"(my definition) and "Right of Choice"(also my definition), and I find myself hard pressed to find any common ground for gay rights or lesbian rights, for that fact. There is NO grounds for these to be rights.
  
  The basis for my conclusion stems from understanding business' influence into society, where advocate groups and special interest groups, get to decide how to best separate the citizenry. A divided nation is a conquered nation. So, please feel free to deal amongst yourself.
  
  My ground is that "Who you F&&K?" doesn't translate to more individual rights, than what is already afforded to you as a MAN and/or WOMAN! Your sleeping habits or relationships have NOTHING to do with your individual rights as a person.
  
  You want to get married? First off- that's your problem. Marriage is a Religious Institution, as well, as a Document Certificate in America, for which, says that Marriage is be between Man and Woman. There is a reason for this and it is because of the survival of the United States of America, because it is the natural selection process for breeding, family and a solid basis for a foundation for society. It ensures America's survival.
  
  Yes, I am aware, that you've heard the argument - What if everyone was gay? This you can not bring at me. In the U.S.A. there is ONLY a population of 350 Million people. And, if you think it is impossible for it to happen, then you've gravely been misinformed.
  
  I know some people who are gay and I know some lesbians too. It is not for me to judge their actions, but be prepared for the science instruction to come forth- biology says reproductive cycle is via male and female. Just because science can replace a male, for the female, the opposite can not be done for the males. Females can have children without Man physical labor. That is science at it's best. But, to live your life, and waste your life with a partner who is not naturally part of your biological make up is absurd and means there is something wrong.
  
  That's just the way it is, not how I see it, but science states it.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To live your life with a partner you could never love is absurd; it is doing a huge disservice to yourself and the unfortunate opposite-sex partner who would be happier with someone who could love him/her.
  
  Nonsense. It's the way you want to see it.
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mega1posted 14 years ago
Right on!
Gays are already raising children together - bringing new life to old PTAs! Might as well make it legal, I say!
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
What do we think about Gay marriage? Why do gays want to be married? For the insurance at work? For the community property aspects?
I think that Andy Taylor of Mayberry RFD should have been able to put Aint B on his health ins if he had it.
He shouldn't have to marry her in order to do that.
Would it have been OK for Andy to marry Aint B ?

Maybe they should change the insurance rules as to who gets coverage. As far as the rest of the benefit, they do have contractual arrangements.

I realy want to know , what is the real issue as to why this personal relationship should be called a Marriage. And if this were to happen what other ramifications are to follow?
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bojanglesk8posted 14 years ago
Let them do what they want.
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glendoncabaposted 14 years ago
On the one hand, any Christian who gives a biblical answer is in trouble. Unless you enjoy being roasted slowly for being an intolerant homophobe. So why bother? Well, how about my own views are informed by Christian bible and the human genome project.

http://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.asp

On the other hand, wish it were possible to dissociate my personal philosophy from my religion. Bigger self-conflict (meaning the effort to construct autonomous ethical standards) than Holden Caulfield in the Catcher in the Rye.

But my second choice of religious philosophy would probably be Islam. Same difference, no to gay marriage, no to gay lifestyle. Some call this hate. I call it the survival of the human race according to the moral code of the Creator. If I recall so does God/Yahweh.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You see this as a moral code?
  
  "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In the theocratic state judgement was sometimes immediate. Now we say let's wait on God. I prefer now. So many of us would have been stoned.
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JBeadleposted 14 years ago
What exactly is the problem with being gay again? If you have issues with gay people, you probably are hung up on what goes on sexually. It's childish.

Gay people are a fact. This isn't a question of gay marriage - it is a question of human rights. Gay people don't have basic human rights. Not in America at least. Land of the "free".

Free if you keep your dicks and vaginas separate, I guess.

I'm hoping in 5-10 years this question feels as foolish as the mixed marriage issue was. Although, I have a feeling some of the anti-gay marriage folks might still be against interracial marriage.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The world did not begin with America nor is it confined to america. Mixed marriages and homosexuality have been around long before USA.
  
  Mixed marriages were only censured in the Ancient Near East if the spouses led the Israelite astray. Homosexuality was never blessed.
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Colebabieposted 14 years ago
But interracial marriage wasn't legal until 1967.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What race are you?
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  White.
  Your point?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm Chinese.
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thats nice. What's your point?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have one, I was just being stupid.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  America is not God. They could have moved to Jamaica. Motto: Out of many one people.
  
  Thats why jamaicans so beautiful, won Miss World twice.
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So just move to Jamaica? I agree it is beautiful, but I love it here. So because someone can't be a family here, rather than work for equal rights (not just for themselves but for future groups of people like them) they should just move?
  
  Do you have ANY idea how America would be if that were the case? If instead of changing laws, working for equal rights, improving society, people just said "F&^% it! I'll move"
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Any other answer would have won you the sense of humour (humor) award.
  
  Actually, all the Jamaicans have moved to USA. All my schoolmates.
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually I was there last summer, and there are still people there. I live in South Florida, as diverse as you can get. Many of my friends are Jamaican. Including a Jamaican homosexual.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is a standing comment whenever jamaicans meet to commiserate over the social problems. "Every society needs a leadership class, and they have all migrated."
  
  Not responding to the homo thing yet. Just a digression. I do enjoy digression otherwise forum is drab with meaningless arguments.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No! All the Jamaicans with money have left, especially the gays.
  
  So we now have a new invasions of Spaniards, Koreans, Colombians, Indians making a lot of money. The rest of us are just customers.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well thats wrong!
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AdviceDoctorposted 14 years ago
Why should gay people not be allowed to get married?
Why shouldn't they get to share their love with each other, just like us straight people?
Why would we be cruel enough to forbid them to get married?

I think ANYONE should be able to do it, as long as they're inlove. No matter if it's a guy and a guy or a girl and a guy.
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Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago
Here's just a question, Why are so many supposed straight people so concerned with what gay people are up to? Every other day on the forums its another thread about homosexuals. In this current economic climate its all I can do to take care of my own life, let alone run another's. Where do so many find the time to keep tabs on everyone not living by what they consider to be moral?
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glendoncabaposted 14 years ago
I think the Scott identity is an alter ego of Mark Knowles. Look at the photo. Thats Mark posing as a Christian in order to bait Christians.

Now where do you check the IP.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  WOW, that is a interesting world you live in so full of conspiracy and intrigue. Kind of hard for me to be Mark when I'm twenty years younger and living on the opposite side of the Atlantic but hey whatever you tell yourself to be comfortable.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is this melancholy night when no one knows how to laugh any more?
  
  I planted calalu (spinach) today so I guess I am less stressed than most right now but a bit scared because of rising crime rate in my town.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  AHH, I love spinach. How is it that people think they can veil insults and digs behind a smiley face or saying no-offense and that somehow excuses their behavior? I don't pose as anyone neither does Mark, I sure don't pose as a hypocritical Christian extremist quoting scripture and love in one breath and extolling discrimination and oppression in another...
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Still not taking you on. Never in mood for a fight anyway. Just state the conservative values and thats it. Not popular.
  Wish I could say the politically correct thing but I am bound by conscience. But calling names wont change you, wont change the biblical ethics.
  
  I find it strange that homosexuals and their supporters will quickly call names when straight bible believing christians were here all along with biblical ethics that we all supported until the whole world decided that perez hilton was the new role model.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ethics and conscience? Where are these two things when you talk about usurping God's authority and taking it upon yourself to judge and condemn people based on scripture that also condemns half the actions of everyone of us on a daily basis? Do you eat shellfish? Do you wear blended fabrics? Do you associate with women during their menstrual cycle, because according to your "Ethics" these things are sins on the same order of homosexuality but you don't have anything against shellfish eaters marrying do you? Its not ethics or conscience to pick and choose the laws and morals to justify yourself and condemn others, it's just plain old simple bigotry and discrimination. Funny how anyone that advocates not discriminating against any one group is the enemy to you.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  On another day I would take you on with hypocritical christian extremist. My pastor would laugh. I am the outspoken one on my church board. The middle of the road lets be reasonable here type, believe it or not. Then you will probably find my church extremist since we take pride in seeking to follow the bible, and not traditions.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not only a man of ethics and conscience but humble too, and modest. On any other day your brand of Christianity would be just as empty and hollow as it always is. So proud of yourselves and your moral superiority looking down at the sinful masses doomed to suffering and damnation.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That honour belongs to the Jerusalem church under Peter until Paul taught them to love the Gentiles.
  
  I am just a plain old hypocrite who is repressing the testestoronic yearnings for young skirts. And calling myself a socialist while learning to be a capitalist. Such hypocrisy!!!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hardly logical, both are well established hubbers. Scott has been here only a few months and has written many quality hubs, Mark has been here forever, and it is easy to see they are not the same if you read them both!
  Scott is a believer.
  The thing they have in common is they are both honest and truthful in their intent to reason.
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Colebabieposted 14 years ago
When did I say anything about money though? What are we even talking about?
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like I said, I'm digressing. I'm talking about politics, population movement, social change. More interesting. Homosexuality has been flogged to death (no pun this time) these days.
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Colebabieposted 14 years ago
What is Sneako?

And Glen, a lot of people can't stand Perez, including homosexuals, he is up for criticism just like any other celebrity. Do you think that "biblical ethics" are consistent, never changing beliefs that should remain constant over time?
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jamaicans with a sexual oreintation. I thought the only orientation they had was stoned.
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Assumption. Shocker. Straight is a sexual orientation as well, in case you didn't know.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Cole baby for that wonderful question.
  
  Some things are forever. The plan for family was given in Paradise. And any other plan is a deviation.
  
  My weakness is that I believe the Book. Thats why the namecalling Scott would do better to call me primitive than hypocritical. Around here I feel so dated, so jurassic park. So Noah's ark. That sounds poetic. Could take some work.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Saying you live your life by a certain moral code and ethics bound by the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ, then going out of your way to condemn and judge any one who does not share your personal ideology is not primitive at all, its just hypocritical. You are not God, you are not the judge you are not the creator, God put all here according to his will and purpose, for you to question that and even criticize it is the ultimate blasphemy and sin. According to the Bible that is.
  
  You do not know God's purpose or design in creating homosexuality or any group of people. Instead of accepting his decision you question it then go one step further and say that these people were created outside of the all powerful God's plan and further insult his power and control. If you're going to believe the book then you must also accept that everything on this earth whether you like it or not serves God's purpose and plan, yet you don't because you think you know better then God, and call me a poser. Nice
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not impressed. You can do better. Instead of defending your view you have resorted to attacking what is the conservative Christian view. No one called you a poser. I said you were an alter ego for Mark. In your position I would have laughed it off (if this is not Mark). Come to think of it, I might be correct. You took it too seriously.
  
  I have two questions for you. Did God create homosexuality or is it a matter of choice? Is there a gay gene which was undeniably detected by human genome project?
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The first question depends on if you believe in God. And the second question the answer is, not yet, and the human genome project is the sequencing of the genes. They don't know what every single gene in the human genome is responsible for yet. Not even close!
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not impressed (with you). First, Scott.Life mentions God several times; Mark is an atheist. Can you really confuse the two?
  
  Second, if you read what Scott.Life wrote, it is clear that he believes God created homosexuality. If you're unclear about this, reread his post.
  
  Third, your question makes no sense. If science hasn't figured out something yet, does that mean you can make up whatever you want in the absence of a scientific explanation?
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  First, I am aware of both of them philosophical worldview. He is a big man, let him defend himself.
  
  Secondly, I have already responded to that with the choice or nature point.
  
  Thirdly, science has not yet unequivocally said there is a gay gene so why say it is by design.
  
  Dont let your bias cloud your own points. At least I concede from the beginning that I am sticking to conservative biblical theology. That does not mean I have not read the latest views.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why must there be a "gay gene" (and one discovered prior to today) for it to be by design? Perhaps you might consider educating yourself on the topic before drawing such conclusions
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I dont have the last word, but in the absence of undeniable evidence why blame nature when so much of the behaviour is nurture.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And you may want to look at this:
  
  http://www.trueorigin.org/gaygene01.asp
  
  Wow! Popcorns and a warm drink friends.
  
  Just in case you did not click:
  
  "LeVay has admitted:
  
  It’s important to stress what I didn’t find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn’t show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain."
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  trueorigin? are you serious?
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not a scientist but he had impressive bibliography:
  
  American Psychiatric Association (2000), Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, (Washington D.C.: American Psychiatric Association), fourth edition, text revision.
  
  Bailey, Michael J., and Richard C. Pillard (1991), “A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation,” Archives of General Psychiatry, 48:1089-1096, December.
  
  Bailey, Michael J. and D.S. Benishay (1993), “Familial Aggregation of Female Sexual Orientation,” American Journal of Psychiatry, 150[2]:272-277.
  
  Baron M. (1993), “Genetics and Human Sexual Orientation [Editorial],” Biological Psychiatry, 33:759-761.
  
  Billings, P. and J. Beckwith (1993), Technology Review, July, p. 60.
  
  Bower, B. (1992), “Gene Influence Tied to Sexual Orientation,” Science News, 141[1]:6, January 4.
  
  Byne, William (1994), “The Biological Evidence Challenged,” Scientific American, 270[5]:50-55, May.
  
  Byne, William and Bruce Parsons (1993), “Human Sexual Orientation,” Archives of General Psychiatry, 50:228-239, March.
  
  Byrd, A. Dean, Shirley E. Cox, and Jeffrey W. Robinson (2001), “Homosexuality: The Innate-Immutability Argument Finds No Basis in Science,” The Salt Lake Tribune, [On-line] URL: http://www.sltrib.com/2001/may/05272001 … 00523.htm.
  
  Crewdson, John (1995), “Dean Hamer’s Argument for the Existence of ‘Gay Genes,’ ” Chicago Tribune, News Section, p. 11, June 25.
  
  Fausto-Sterling, Anne and Evan Balaban (1993), “Genetics and Male Sexual Orientation,” [technical-comment letter to the editor], Science, 261:1257, September 3.
  
  Friedman, Richard C. and Jennifer I. Downey (1994), “Homosexuality,” The New England Journal of Medicine, 331[14]:923-930, October 6.
  
  Gelman, David, with Donna Foote, Todd Barrett, and Mary Talbot (1992), “Born or Bred?,” Newsweek, pp. 46-53, February 24.
  
  Goetze, Rob (2004), “Homosexuality and the Possibility of Change: An Ongoing Research Project,” [On-line], URL: http://www.newdirection.ca/research/index.html.
  
  Hamer, Dean H., Stella Hu, Victoria L. Magnuson, Nan Hu, and Angela M.L. Pattatucci (1993), “A Linkage Between DNA Markers on the X Chromosome and Male Sexual Orientation,” Science, 261:321-327, July 16.
  
  Horgan, John (1995), “Gay Genes, Revisited,” Scientific American, 273[5]:26, November.
  
  Howe, Richard (1994), “Homosexuality in America: Exposing the Myths,” American Family Association, [On-line], URL: http://www.afa.net/homosexual_agenda/homosexuality.pdf.
  
  Hubbard, Ruth and Elijah Wald (1997), Exploding the Gene Myth (Boston: Beacon Press).
  
  “Human Genome Report Press Release” (2003), International Consortium Completes Human Genome Project, [On-line], URL: http://www.ornl.gov/TechResources/Human … 50yr.html.
  
  Kallmann, F.J. (1952), “Comparative Twin Study on the Genetic Aspects of Male Homosexuality,” Journal of Nervous and Mental Diseases, 115:283-298.
  
  King, M. and E. McDonald (1992), “Homosexuals Who are Twins: A Study of 46 Probands,” The British Journal of Psychiatry, 160: 407-409.
  
  Kinsey, A.C. W.B. Pomeroy, C.E. Martin (1948), Sexual Behavior in the Human Male (Philadelphia, PA: W.B. Saunders).
  
  Kinsey, A.C. W.B. Pomeroy, C.E. Martin, P. H. Gebhard (1953), Sexual Behavior in the Human Female (Philadelphia, PA: W.B. Saunders).
  
  Laumann, Edward O., John H. Gagnon, Robert T. Michael, and Stuart Michaels (1994), The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States (Chicago, IL: University of Chicago Press).
  
  LeVay, Simon (1991), “A Difference in Hypothalamic Structure Between Heterosexual and Homosexual Men,” Science, 253:1034-1037, August 30.
  
  Mann, Charles (1994), “Behavioral Genetics in Transition,” Science, 264:1686-1689, June 17.
  
  Marcus, Eric (1993), Is It a Choice? (San Francisco, CA: Harper).
  
  NCBI (2004), “Human Genome Resources,” [On-line], URL: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genome/guide/human/.
  
  Nicolosi, Joseph, A. Dean Byrd, and Richard Potts (2000), “Retrospective Self-reports of Changes in Homosexual Orientation: A Consumer Survey of Conversion Therapy Clients,” Psychological Reports, 86:1071-1088, June.
  
  Rainer, J.D., A. Mesnikoff, LC. Kolb, and A. Carr (1960), “Homosexuality and Heterosexuality in Identical Twins,” Psychosomatic Medicine, 22:251-259.
  
  Reinisch, June M. and Ruth Beasley (1990) The Kinsey Institute New Report on Sex (New York: St. Martin’s Press).
  
  Rice, George, Carol Anderson, Neil Risch, and George Ebers (1999), “Male Homosexuality: Absence of Linkage to Microsatellite Markers at Xq28,” Science, 284:665-667, April 23.
  
  Risch, Neil, Elizabeth Squires-Wheeler, and Bronya J.B. Keats (1993), “Male Sexual Orientation and Genetic Evidence,” Science, 262:2063-2064, December 24.
  
  Shepherd, Gordon M. (1994) Neurobiology (Oxford: Oxford University Press), third edition.
  
  Spitzer, Robert L. (2003), “Can Some Gay Men and Lesbians Change Their Sexual Orientation?,” Archives of Sexual Behavior, 32[5]:403-417, October 5.
  
  VandeHei, Jim (2004), “Dean Says Faith Swayed Decision on Gay Unions,” The Washington Post, p. A-1, January 8.
  
  Wickelgren, Ingrid (1999), “Discovery of ‘Gay Gene’ Questioned,” Science, 284:571, April 23.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know if anyone, let alone God, created homosexuality, but what I am saying though is if you claim to take the Bible to be literal and THE guide to living then by proxy such a person would have to accept that God did indeed create homosexuality and for a reason. As according to the Bible everything in the Universe and existence is created by God and for his reasons. According to scripture Satan can not create anything, only twist or misuse that which God made. So again, if you take the Bible to be literal as quite a few on these threads do, then this thing called homosexuality that they hate so and call an abomination is in fact created by God, yet they question him, and his authority when they condemn those who he in his perfect wisdom did in fact create to be that way.
  
  Saying the Bible is literal is a slippery slope at the least. In this case I think it can be argued that anyone speaking out against any of God's creations is being hypocritical at the least and blasphemous in the literal sense. That's all i'm saying.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is this intellectually and theologically honest in approach.
  
  The sovereignty of God allows for freedom of choice. So the choice is ascribed to sovereignty of God. God tolerates evil in universe but does not mean that is the ideal. He promises to destroy evil.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahh the old catch-22 argument and dilemma. God gave me free will yet everything that happens is according to his purpose and plan, so to be happy I must discover his purpose for me, but then I don't have free will.....
  
  That my friend is why I am not bound to a book or claim to be anything. Those are things you do. I claim to be human, and claim to be me. I let God speak for himself, and let his book be read by others for themselves. This life of mine is enough for me and the only one I have the authority to decide, so i take care of it, and let others decide their own, but once again, you miss the point by miles.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It's you who miss the point by a mile my friend it doesn't matter what I believe in this thread because I have not made the claims of following a moral and ethical path laid down in the Bible of which you believe totally. I don't need to defend my view because I am not the one pushing it on you or saying it is right and morally superior you are the one making those claims again. I'm not gay and haven't ever said if I approve or disapprove of anything about their life. I have said on numerous occasions though that it is their life and up to them to live it.I don't desire that lifestyle for myself but that choice has nothing to do with the Bible or God, I simply like women.
  
  So the question becomes for you Glen, if you believe the Bible as you say and follow its moral tenets then why are questioning God's purpose here or his creation, are not all men created by God according to the Bible, and do not all serve his plan, even Pharaoh's disbelief was authored by God to serve his purpose, yet here you are suggesting somehow that man has created this thing all on his own apart from God's control or knowledge somehow.
  
  I do thank you though for revealing the problem of faith you seem to be experiencing. This explains alot. You believe God is in charge of whatever you like but not in control of the things you disprove of, even though the Bible says he controls all.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Pharaoh's hardness of heart along with much other evil in OT attributed to sovereignty of God.
  
  So if you are saying that God in his permissive will, allows homosexuality, in order to reveal his glory eventually, then we are on same page a la Pharaoh.
  
  But to say that homosexuality is part of God's plan for family and should be approved, that is different.
  
  God's plan for family was laid out in Eden. I may not like it, I don't. I prefer polygamy. But I am bound by the Book.
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Colebabieposted 14 years ago
Why is it a weakness? And do you take from the Bible what you deem relevant and disregard what you do not?
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Weakness meaning I am bound by it and therefore will appear to be irrational.
  
  No I believe in biblical theology, that is, unity of themes in the diverse accounts.
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Do you believe that if everyone followed the bible, in its entirety, that the world would be a better place? Do you think there would be change and diversity if that were the case?
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  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually Cole, if everyone followed the Bible like it should be there would be no religion on the planet. But, I do agree, the world would be a better place.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Change and diversity was god's plan at creation. Man was created to experience growth and become more and more like the divine. Sorry for the cut and paste but here is a quote to explain the need for order:
  
  "The harmony of creation depends upon the perfect conformity of all beings, of everything, animate and inanimate, to the law of the Creator. God has ordained laws for the government, not only of living beings, but of all the operations of nature. Everything is under fixed laws, which cannot be disregarded. But while everything in nature is governed by natural laws, man alone, of all that inhabits the earth, is amenable to moral law. To man, the crowning work of creation, God has given power to understand His requirements, to comprehend the justice and beneficence of His law, and its sacred claims upon him; and of man unswerving obedience is required.
  53
  {PP 52.3}
  Like the angels, the dwellers in Eden had been placed upon probation; their happy estate could be retained only on condition of fidelity to the Creator's law. They could obey and live, or disobey and perish. God had made them the recipients of rich blessings; but should they disregard His will, He who spared not the angels that sinned, could not spare them; transgression would forfeit His gifts and bring upon them misery and ruin. {PP 53.1}
  The angels warned them to be on their guard against the devices of Satan, for his efforts to ensnare them would be unwearied. While they were obedient to God the evil one could not harm them; for, if need be, every angel in heaven would be sent to their help. If they steadfastly repelled his first insinuations, they would be as secure as the heavenly messengers. But should they once yield to temptation, their nature would become so depraved that in themselves they would have no power and no disposition to resist Satan."
  
  Patriarchs and prophets, EG White
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drej2522posted 14 years ago
Colebaby!!!!!!
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dre!! Hi!! How are ya?
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  drej2522posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Heya! good good...how was 'finals' week for ya?
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It was craziness! One night I was in my office (on campus) studying until 4:30am. But it was fun craziness, school in my pjs, studying late with friends, being so tired that you laugh at anything. I did pretty well though, a B in organic chem and a B+ in the lab. Thanks for asking.
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  drej2522posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sweet!...at least it's over! school starts back up Jan 10th...so parrrrty!
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Colebabieposted 14 years ago
And Cags, I think you are completely wrong.

But that is my belief
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Taken from the Australian Psychological Society webpage.

The people who have the most positive attitudes toward homosexuality are those who say they know well one or more same-sex attracted persons. For this reason, psychologists believe negative attitudes toward gay men and lesbians are not grounded in actual experience with lesbians or gay men, but on stereotypes and prejudice.

Furthermore, protection against violence and discrimination are very important, just as they are for other minority groups. Some states have laws against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you earnest. Like I have been saying, it is rude, unfair, incorrect, and plain WRONG to make assumptions about others and to group everyone together. It is what they "think" they know, not what they have learned or experienced in their lives.
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  drej2522posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately, grouping and categorizing things is in human nature...To top that, the majority of people cannot distinguish between their generalizations and individual cases.
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Colebabieposted 14 years ago
The fact that someone brings up The Human Genome Project without knowing what it is tells me that they probably heard something from someone else who is biased. Which is why I wish people knew what they were talking about before they formed an opinion and then fought for their belief.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
From the same source. ( I know this from my own studies anyway)

Is sexual orientation a choice?

No. For most people, sexual orientation emerges in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Some people report trying very hard over many years to change their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual, with no success. For these reasons, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation for most people to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed. People don't choose their sexual orientation; they can of course choose the kind of a life they want to live.
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  B52 Bomberposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stealing,lying,cheating,dis-obedience.All these traits are developed in adolescence,just like homosexuality.But they all are chosen.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When does homophobia develop? During religious instructions. What a hateful outdated pile of trash!
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  B52 Bomberposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It`s not homophobia,it`s common sense,which I thought you had a portion of.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, homophobia is learnt behavior, think back to who taught you.
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  B52 Bomberposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nobody taught me Earnest,1 and 1 does not make 3,simple math 101.
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  B52 Bomberposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe gays have a right to life,liberty and happiness.But just like those christian zealots message, I don`t want it crammed down my throat. Do your thing and be quiet about it.But they have to shout it to the whole world.
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you married?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do know what you mean. I lived opposite the gay parade in my big city for 22 years. Some are very extroverted and do get a bit in to the fray. Others are quiet business or professional people, day workers, shop assistants, all walks of life and their sexuality is not on display any more than others.
  We see a loud majority when people group, even for the football.
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm a kinda smart chick. Definitely not a genius or anything, but I think I have a good head on my shoulders. And this, bomber, is not common sense.
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you so sure? If you are, why are you so sure?
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Colebabieposted 14 years ago
Why do you believe homosexuality is wrong bomber? It didn't just come out of thin air.
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drej2522posted 14 years ago
wait....1 and 1 isn't 3??...what????
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Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago
In this quest by some to identify the cause and origin of homosexuality and ascribe it to a gene, the better question is have they found the straight gene? Honestly I'm curious. As far as I know genes determine physical sexual orientation not what you do with it. Is my preference and attraction to women purely physical and decided by biology or is there more to it. If its all biological then all of us would have similar personalities and habits then, yet we share characteristics of some from our ancestors while displaying others that are totally original and new.

A better question is why is all this time spent trying to explain the origins or morality of something once again most of us are not and are not actually truly affected by. Can anyone really say that someone being gay ruined their life? If not them why even waste time debating it. Even better question why do the ones that seem to be obsessed with the topic claim to dislike so? In my experience, obsession stems from a deep desire to posses, associate with, or know.
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  B52 Bomberposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Excellent ,That`s my very thoughts.People need to leave the issue alone.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are discussing it now, but i would not conclude that you are obsessed. That would demonstrate a certain intolerance for opposing views on my part.
  
  But as I have said elsewhere, I have more than a passing interest in the topic because:
  
  1. I was targeted by someone in authority when I was a schoolboy and was saved by my, even then, conservative biblical ethics. Having to stand up like that left me with a defensive philosophy.
  2. As a young man I have had to evade/rebut/resist gay men. (Maybe I was cute).
  3. My sensitivity to the issue has negatively affected my career at least once.
  
  Yet my official position is not based on my own anger/disappointment but on the gospel. God invites every one to come to him for grace and forgiveness.
  
  How dare you accuse me of just passing through to obsess. I have suffered because I followed the Bible.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh you poor thing having to be responsible for what you profess, and having to actually back it up with action, what a horrible life. Tell you what if you can stop crying for a few minutes I think we can find some nails and a cross and nail you up so you can really feel persecuted.Come off it man. Your life is your own stop blaming God, and homosexuals for your pain and suffering.
  
  Spend your whole life reliving the past and taking it out on others. How many straight people have hurt you and offended you yet you moved on and got past it, this pain is the one YOU choose to hold on to, yet you excuse it by turning it on God, and justify it with the Bible. You hate gay people because one offended you once, finally the truth comes out. But keep telling yourself God wants you to hate them. You have issues my friend and need to talk to someone before this anger about your past burns you up.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How much per hour do you charge.
  
  I am simply saying I talk from direct experience. Not one, check the edit.
  
  Not just intellectual armchair.
  
  You can talk about war from experience, I would never minimise your courage just because you choose to discuss being a marine.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Only difference is I don't use my combat experience as a reason to hate Muslims, or anyone, in fact I don't really come on here and broadcast the details of my past on the forums either. Once again shift the blame my friend, I've got you pegged.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  That is the funniest load of crap I have ever heard.
  
  You have suffered because you insist on sticking your "conservative biblical ethics" to everyone else.
  
  This is what the bible says:
  
  1. Go around telling everyone that your ethics are better than theirs and they should do as you say
  2. People hate it when you go around telling them you are better than they are and they should do what you tell them
  3. People will hate you
  
  There you go.
  
  Biblical "prophecy fulfilled," and you get to do the passive aggressive "I am am martyr" thing.
  
  You poor, poor dear you. Suffered because you follow the bible. How awful for you. There, there - have a cup of tea and burn some homosexuals at the stake.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark, you are the master.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  got you there fellas:
  
  I said in my personal experience i believe i was victimised becaused I followed bible. You did not ask for details. You simply jumped the gun. In one case the bible was my defence when someone targeted me for about 3 years before he made his move, by which time he was my close friend. Others in my position would have played along but foremost in my mind was the biblical standard.
  
  Now you eat your words.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark you jumped the gun too quickly this time. But I will not rub it in too much. Two times that I 'suffered' because of my biblical ethics on this issue was long before hubpages, and on both occasions the issue was up close.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Poor you. Jesus would be proud of you.
  
  I will fetch the nails and the lash. Scott is bringing the wood and the thorn of crowns.
  
  I have suffered because I do not believe the crap you believe. Does that make us even or validate my beliefs in any way?
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Intellectually dishonest even for you. You jumped onto a discussion at the end. Where I was stating that I speak from personal experience, not abstraction or obsession. You ought to withdraw your irrelevant comments.
  
  Anyway you are late, i said you were Scott earlier.
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Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago
I have actually learned that there are numerous times when 1+1=1. want me to explain it or can you guess how?
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Colebabieposted 14 years ago
glen, I never said that some of the sources he used weren't legit. Of course he has to get information from which to base his argument. But even the first paragraph doesn't make any sense. I already explained to you what The Human Genome Project is, and if someone read the first paragraph of that article they would think he has no idea what he is talking about.
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B52 Bomberposted 14 years ago
Anybody with a brain should realize gayness is here and going to stay.We can`t change it.I could care less.Just quit marching up and dowm the streets about it.Do your thing and go on about your business. My late father used to say,(Don`t rock the boat.)
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When gays/lesbians are treated under the law the same as heterosexuals, then there won't be any need to march.
  As for the marches, are you forced to attend them?
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  B52 Bomberposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No,But the more fuss made,the more stirred up. On both sides.The word is compromise.
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  Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have to compromise. Why should someone else?
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The other "side" (anti-equality) is not interested in compromise. They are interested in maintaining the status quo. The status quo does not ensure equality for all. Sometimes a fuss/stirring up is exactly what's needed.
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Colebabieposted 14 years ago
Glen,
Do you think for yourself about anything? Or do you just refer to the Gospel?
You seem to follow the Gospel but don't enjoy doing so?
Am I wrong, since you use the words like "suffer" and "weakness"?
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Suffer in the last post was to say I felt that I was victimised because i did what was right.
  
  Weakness was really a moral strength.
  
  Yet your question is great as usual. My answer: The way of the cross is a path of sacrifice.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No you're exactly right he consistently talks about his suffering like its a burden that he can not escape, and all the world is against him and persecuting him for his belief. this is a convenient way of deflecting responsibility for his own life and actions and putting it on "God". It's all God's fault.
  
  You suffer Glen because you made a choice and continue to stop put this on others. Standing firm in your faith is supposed to be rewarding, afterall according to your faith and the Bible these momentary troubles in this world are worth it and a small price to pay for salvation. Which is it?
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  livelongerposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr_complex
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So many shrinks here.
  
  Pull apart words at your convenience.
  
  See my response to Cole and correct yourself.
  
  You are the same guys who adore Mother Theresa without realising that nothing good ever comes without sacrifice.
  
  Liberals can be so judgemental in areas they dont understand. Go read the words of the USA national anthem. Written on a battleship, I think. that flag suffered shots and bombs yet it flew without self pity. Why project your pet theory on me because i have a religious belief.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There's no need for me to correct myself you're the one having to back peddle after sticking your foot in your mouth. If your words confuse you then stop posting.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago
Glen, your words are your words, your anger and hate are yours as well, your bigotry towards other groups are yours as well, not God's, not the Bible's. Be a man and take responsibility for yourself and stop blaming God. Your life experiences have come together to form a deep resentment towards a group of people you dislike, yet instead of owning up to it, you try to pass it off on God, as if he would lower himself to such petty trivial things.

I am sure if I were to say that you are less of a person then any other because you were Jamaican, and that the Bible backs this up that you would be offended. You may even call me a racist bigot, and you would be right to say so, and that belief no matter where it came from or where I learned it would still be my belief and in the end I and I alone would have to answer for it. You are your own man Glen, God does not make you do anything.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is religion forum. I have been a Christian all my life. My values on this topic, as well as nearly every other topic, were strongly shaped by biblical ethics.
  
  Sometimes i use words like foolish, weakness, bias, to be non aggressive. You guys over analyse. So typical.
  
  I have anger/impatience issues, but not with this topic. With
  
  1. The pathetic political leaders of my country. Crime is getting out of hand. Leaders spew rhetoric. All in the name of political correctness.
  2. My church, they refuse to face serious issues head on. All in the name of political correctness.
  
  ANALYSE THAT.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So instead of addressing the issues at hand you vent your anger and blame towards homosexuals, once again, stop passing the buck man, and be a man, now its not God, but the church and the government, you just don't quit do you. The world sucks, life is bad everywhere, grow up man.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  WRONG ANALYSIS: I put my money where my mouth is. i do social work, I do political work (used to), and I work for the upliftment of my community.
  
  Admit it, people who change the world are never satisfied with injustice. The homosexual issue has you to fight for them. I would rather reform the nation and the church. GET THE POINT.
  
  WHY DID YOU JOIN THE MARINES IF NOT TO FIX THE WORLD. IN SOME SMALL WAY. BLOOM WHERE YOU ARE PLANTED EVEN.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I certainly did not join the marines to fix the world my friend and its not my job to fix it. I joined because I couldn't afford to pay for college and didn't want to work in a factory for minimum wage. You are so clueless.
  
  You talk about all that you do like its torture and a burden, then ask us to feel bad for you. We should feel bad for you for doing God's work. You just don't stop ever, on and on with this. I fight for people's freedom to be treated with respect, if you'd shut your mouth and open your ears for ten minutes you might see that. I don't care whether you're gay, straight, Atheist, believer or what you are. people have a right to live their life free of judgment by religious zealots like you, and you know what you have a right to your beliefs as well and I would fight for them right up until you start forcing them on others or using them to hurt others then you have crossed the line and I will fight to stop you. You're not reforming anything you're only spreading the hate and anger and that's why you WILL be stopped.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  History shows that people change the world who are dissatisfied with things as they are. Washington, Garvey, Castro, Gandhi, King, Bolivar, Churchill, the list goes on.
  
  We would still be riding in horse drawn chariots if people did not seek change. I am passionate about change. But some battles are not for me. I will not join the GLBT campaign because it is not consonant with my beliefs. Why do you hate me for that?
  
  I hate injustice, I am angry at unchecked crime. I am bigoted against poverty. And I love peace, prosperity, and progress.
  
  And will do, as i have always done, what is necessary to improve my nation and my church. What do you mean by 'you WILL be stopped'. Is that a threat against my freedom of assembly, conscience, and expression?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  No one hates you.
  
  We love you.
  
  We just hate your ridiculous, bigoted, war mongering, anti-gay beliefs.
  
  And you WILL be stopped. The world is sick and tired of listening to this crap from evangelicals like you.
  
  Look around. we want something better than the churches and governments have been offering the last 2000 years. This is a step in the process.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark retire hurt. You are having a bad night. His comment was aimed at my saying I am leaving the gay campaign to him, but i have a passion for political and church reform. I wanted to find out why he opposes my desire to be a change agent in my church and nation, gay debate aside.
  
  You are so out of it tonight Mark. I was saying basically i want no part of ongoing gay crusade, i want to focus on social and economic change for poor; and reform in my own church. How could one be against an agenda they know nothing about.
  
  In other words I leave you guys to prop up the pro gay lobby, I've got bigger fish to fry.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  And yet - here you are, once again fighting the good anti-gay fight.
  
  You are the one keeps starting threads about gay marriage. You are the one writing hubs against gay marriage. You are the one being downtrodden for your belief in the bible. You are the one whop only managed to avoid being homosexual because of your conservative christian ethics.
  
  Good to know you will be stopping this practice and concentrating on the big fish from now on.
  
  Well done.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark. I insist you take a vacation. Third time wrong tonight. Only started one thread on gay marriage. And got banned for promoting my hub, which i wrote because of something that happened at a church. See, one hub, one thread. Getting rusty, or am I getting good?
  
  Or did some faithful Christian pray for you to change?
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOLOL
  
  And here you are, once again. Go - fry your big fish instead of persuading me that evangelical Christians are all condescending hypocrites.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No! Just have a better sense of humour than the tired liberals. Mark this is not you. You need a vacation.
  
  I must thank you and earnest for helping me to develop a thicker hide on matters religious. I still have my beliefs but I am learning to separate the emotions and laugh at myself and others more. I guess it's called growth.
  
  Trust it will not make me too irreverent for my Christian friends. No more forums for me for at least two weeks. Gotta work hard on some projects, when I'm not playing Facebook Scrabble.
  
  I have about four hubs on Facebook Scrabble, come over and play sometime. My highest score is 412, not great but coming along.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Dude - your condescending tone is not appreciated, and I am pretty sure I would kick your ass in whatever version of scrabble you care to mention.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry if I came across that way. Don't wanna be rude or condescending. Or are u getting sensitive and mushy on me. Is it statement about tired liberals, come on just a light punch below the belt. Don't take it too personal.
  
  I was paying a genuine compliment on the growth bit. Honestly.
  
  And though I enjoy winning, I play Facebook Scrabble for the fun too, and dont do the violent metaphor motivation.
  
  Just trying to be friendly. Temper temper. Email me when ready to play Facebook Scrabble. Thats one place we can engage in words without the endless misunderstanding. They even have a dictionary in the game which you can consult to validate your word before playing. Not that a genius like you would need it. I promise you that when I beat you I will not come back here and tell everyone.
  
  G'night.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then I am talking to the wrong person. I should be conversing with your superiors. They would understand my points without making petty judgements, after all, despite its sins, America is still the greatest democracy on earth. And the blood of its fine young men has been spilt in battlefields around the world because America has repeatedly been called to solve problems (albeit some of its own making).
  
  Dont patronise your military by talking about college fees. I actually love America.
  
  The US consultants I have met have been quite peaceful and non-judgemental. Remember you ought to present a more representative face of your great democracy.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They have learned that using "biblical ethics" merely causes wars and fights because there is no god?
  
  What we need to do is discard the idea of a god, sit down and agree on some common ethics that we have decided upon. Not that you tell me some invisible super being gave us. People are not buying that any more., Sorry - Education will do that to you.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mark I see you have not recanted the original incorrect conclusion. I respect you too much to let you look so dishonest. think about it.
  
  EDIT: And I would only respect you more.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Scott, you don't understand. My views would be the same with or without the experience.
  
  I love the sinner but dislike the sin. Dont put words in my mouth.
  
  You accuse me of obsession in abstraction and i said no, I have had to confront them.
  
  See. You are so eager to condemn me you condemn me for having no reason to be interested, and when i say wait a minute, I had to confront them, you then give me a sermon and a psychiatric evaluation.
  
  You are no fun.
  
  Not impressed.
  
  come on, fight fairly. either you hate me for being obsessed or you hate me for standing up for my beliefs. Which one.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't hate you at all. I pity you, that desperation and hopelessness from feeling powerless and constantly harassed must be overwhelming and tiring. You're not standing up for your beliefs on here, you may have out there in your home, but on here you're not. No one is persecuting you or even confronting you, all you have to do is turn off the computer and walk away to be safe, but you don't. You keep coming back, all the while telling us all how persecuted you are. There is nothing fun about telling others their lifestyle is a sin and an affront to God, that you talk about it like its something you do for enjoyment and kicks is offensive and disturbing. You want to have "Fun" discriminating against others then talk to some one else.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well deflected but again not honest. If you guys would maintain honest line I might actually be more open to your arguments. Here you are more willing to project emotions to me that are far from truth. No wonder so many avoid the forum.
  
  No fun. Boring. Dishonesty in boring.
  
  Show me from the bible where I have to support homosexuality as a lifestyle. If not respect my right to love gays but not the choice.
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Scott.Lifeposted 14 years ago
Glen you are a zealot and an extremist. You are a hate filled bigot. You're willingness to justify these feelings by claiming it is God's will is no different then any terrorist I have ever met. You and people like you are a threat to peace and good order and will burn this world to the ground in your anger and hatred. You will do horrible things in God's name then act as if you are innocent and clean, when your soul is as black as night.

I will pray for your soul and that you find God because this thing you worship is neither good or pure and you are lost in the darkness. The only dishonesty is your own towards the truth and origin of your anger and hate.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Scott get some sleep.
  
  You are beginning to sound like a jihad thingy. You spent too much time among the terrorists.
  
  I dont even own a gun. And think twice before killing even a roach. Life is sacred. When in doubt meditate on the life of Jesus Christ, and stop being so bitter to those who disagree with you.
  
  You refuse to accept that conservatives are people too.
  
  You have some deep deep issues, man. Your choice of words are downright scary.
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glendoncabaposted 14 years ago
Okay guys dont nitpick this one. This is from the confessional so to speak. But just to point out that the greatest thing is the love of God and not our silly disagreements:

On the occasion where I counsel with a HIV positive gay man who was a Christian I simply offered words of love and compassion to represent the love and compassion of Christ. He knew the bible, my duty was simply to offer love and encouragement.

So to the liberals here: We Christians who talk about biblical ethics realise that the greatest ethic is to love others and do good.

And this is the greatest law.
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  Scott.Lifeposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But do YOU love this man Glen, would you share your home with him, your belongings, your money? Would you defend him from others in your church who would attack him? Would you open your life to him?
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Scott, I beg you in the name of all that is holy and pure to not nitpick this one. Leave it alone. For nothing I say will convince you that God's love is greater than your need to win an argument.
  
  EDIT: If it will heal your soul. You already have the answers: Love others, do good. If you ever come this way I invite you to spend a day with me. Be prepared to give charitably to many needy persons, some will even tell you they are suffering from AIDS and in need of medication. I am like a magnet for persons in need. My wife refuses to let me carry much money on me because they all come to me. And I'm talking just going about regular business, not full time church work.
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glendoncabaposted 14 years ago
One piece of communication advice, you may avoid stereotyping by indexing, that is, making allowance for individual exceptions to your sweeping generalisations.

Not all christians stone gays, well, not until friday anyways. Check Sneako, I need my stones for my construction project.

In my case (not that you will believe) I have more important things to do than spend another night arguing with the gay lobby. Too stressful talking to people who are more condemnatory than a Salem witch trial. Good night Scott, I guess i was the designated opponent for tonight. Next time lets play Facebook Scrabble, it's more fun. I actually learned a new Z word the last time. SAZ, a middle eastern stringed instrument. Did you see it in your travels.
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