So You Think You Are Spiritual

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   SunSevenposted 14 years ago

   And the point is??

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      lorlie6posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Here we are again, Sun!
      Deborah, what is the point?

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         Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Fight-fight...  Is the point!

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   mythbusterposted 14 years ago

   Deborah Sexton, could you expound a bit on the portion of Hermetic Law you posted, please?
   
   ""The Hermetic Law States:
   ''As Above, So Below; As Below, So Above." ""
   
   I'm not sure I understand...is 'above' a reference to higher power or higher spiritual realm?
   
   Perhaps if I understand the quote, I'll understand more about the rest of the information in your topic.

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3. 59

   TLMinutposted 14 years ago

   I agree Deborah. If there's no signs of anything different, there's no spiritual connection. I don't understand why you ask "what have you done to prove you are spiritual?" though; it's not something one needs to do to prove anything. It's what happens when it's true - if God's spirit is in you, working through you, things happen. I don't mean you're running around like God's robot with no control but I don't see why you would 'try to prove' something.

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4. 59

   TLMinutposted 14 years ago

   I've wondered why God has shown me anything (me personally); I am a person with no influence and I rarely interact with anyone. Seems like wasted effort on God's part. There HAVE been times that things have happened for other people through me but it was odd. I found myself helping even LOVING people I personally detested. It was amazing! Nothing in the world was the same.
   
   Then I see that I can back away from it and choose to ignore other people and despise the rudeness and cruelty that comes with being human. I see it as the definition of humanity even though I've seen otherwise. Every time I see an example of people being selfless, risking their own lives to help another, even a stranger, it gives me a thrill and I know people are not as bad as I choose to believe.
   
   I'm rambling. It's just so hard for me to understand why one can be connected and then choose anything else. Especially because it's my own self I'm talking about. Free will is not all it's cracked up to be.

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think the concept of 'free will' IS what it's cracked up to be. If you can't follow your own will freely, then you have nothing to hope for and nothing to learn.

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         TLMinutposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         If I always knew what was best in every situation - if there is a best - it would be fine. If my own laziness wasn't fighting with my other desires, it would be fine. That's what I really mean.

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            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Can we ever know what is best in any situation if we don't follow our own free will to make it happen the way we want it to happen?
            
            Who is to blame for your laziness?
            
            You can't pull a good life out of your ass if you're sitting on it all day.
            
            

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               Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Oh, I thought most rich people make all of their money while sitting on their freaky arse, no?

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   TLMinutposted 14 years ago

   Beelzedad, I think you'd have to experience it yourself or be with someone who is at that moment experiencing it. Not some emotionalism, I think that's been misinterpreted as "the presence of God" before but it's not the same thing. I'm still waiting to hear more of what Mark meant about connecting to ... what did he say? The universe? Being one with all? He has too many hubs, I couldn't find anything about it.
   
   I wonder if it's different for everyone since we're each unique.
   It's also different because what one means by God may or may not be what another means. Other names and concepts may mean the same thing or may not. We can't be in each other's mind so how can we know for sure?

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Okay, so who can I talk to that is an authority on what is emotionalism and what is "the presence of God."
      
      Would that be you?

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         TLMinutposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         LOL! Me as an authority? No. But I have been in church before where people were all hyped up and emotional, they claimed it was the presence of God. I'm not that emotional of a person so I was more curious than anything else. Knowing that these people could immediately afterward go harass and harangue someone else over trivialities made me think it was nothing of the sort.
         
         I have felt the same way when listening to music or at a concert, I know emotions can be powerful (probably why I don't like them particularly much).
         
         No, I don't know how to describe this. All I could do is tell what happened with me and that's what you said you've already heard from other people.

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            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Not to point out the obvious, but you just described one of the primary reasons for an atheists disbelief in gods, and you even claimed not to be an authority, as would an atheist.

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               TLMinutposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               That sort of thing didn't help me either.

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                  TLMinutposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I am NOT an authority on emotionalism - who knows? Maybe some people did react like that to God's presence. It was more like a concert atmosphere to me though with someone shouting things obviously meant to "whip up the crowd".
                  
                  When things have really happened, it's more like everything else just stops, nothing matters at all but the presence of God. It's also different than knowing something, the knowing is so basic and solid as a rock. I can bounce ideas, thoughts, and doubts off the knowing but the knowing God is unchanged.
                  
                  What makes you think there are words?

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                  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  It would if you aimed your own reasoning at your own god.

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   rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

   we all are to some extent as we are human beings. no one can define it for another.

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   SirDentposted 14 years ago

   Not all spirits are godly spirits. There are more unclean or evil spirits than there are clean or godly spirits.
   
   Many people are spiritual, but not spiritual in a godly way.

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Haven't they heard of showering or underarm deodorant?

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         SirDentposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Probably, but the old saying is, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it."

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            mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Unless you feed the horse a ton of salt before leading the horse to water...
            
            

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            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            That's kind of like, 'You can lead a man to knowledge but you can't make him think.'

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               mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               It RHYMES, Too!

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      donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      Agreed.

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      lang58posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I second that!

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         aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Amen and amen...

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   MindOverEverythngposted 14 years ago

   Which spiritual laws are you referring to? Just those two?

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   Hello Debra..  I've been just hiding and watching your threads and posts..
     I can't resist making a comment on this one.
           Because..
     This falls in line with a point that I've been attempting to make.
   
     I believe that many times, people read things that Jesus said specifically to his desciples, and apply these statements to pertain to themselves when they do not..
     I think that this is a classic example.
   This conversation that you speak of was at the last supper! and no one was present except for the twelve.
     Jesus was speaking to only those sitting at the table when he said   ...   
     "Verily I say unto   "YOU"  that "YOU" can do not only  these things but much greater things than these".
      He did not say  'Verily I say unto you that "anybody" that believes in me can do these things.   
   
      At least this is the way in which I understand these passages.

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      TLMinutposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Some versions DO say "anyone who" and "he who" instead of only "you" as to the disciples. But the whole chapter is such a mix that it's quite difficult to be sure.

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I think that you have just seen where the diffrence lies.
         But this is something that we forget to pay attention to.
            
           When the subject is speaking of "BAD" things happening we seem to pay attention to whom is being addressed.
         But when prizes are being awarded we want to be in that line, and do not look for the sign.
         
            It just makes sence to me that the desciples; being his proteges, would be given special "Power" that all of his followers are not given. 
         We are all not his proteges just cause we wanna be.
         I think that this was an exclusive requirement that they were happy being followers.
           Then they were ,,,FORCED,,, into the position of leadership.

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      mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think there's a lot of value in this interpretation. Thanks for sharing Jerami! This has given me a lot to think about.

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         @ mythbuster ... I picture this as kinda sorta like ..
         if I were to write a letter to my wife, children and friends. They know who I am adressing when I speak of diffrent things.
            Someone finds my letter at some time in the future; they may claim these scentiments to be vocused upon themselves. 
         This may sometimes be true and sometimes not. 
         
           And thank you for your kind words.

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            aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I rather think you are simplifying the issue.
            
            On the assumption that Christ was who He said He was, then He knew that every statement He made was authoritative and capable of extension to His  'disciples' - which term refers to those who study and obey Christ.
            
            Now I will agree that MOST of those who call the name of Christ could NOT be defined as being in discipleship, they are more followers, a point made in scripture, when many fell away.
            
            Most will end up as apostates and lukewarm, but I make no reference as to how that may affect their eternity, simply that as followers in life they will NOT be authorised to exert the authority of Christ.
            
            But I have seen these 'gifts' exercised and the authority taken in this secular world, by those who obey Christ and are in discipleship, so it still functions today, as we await the return of Christ.
            
            I realise that you are a Preterist, even though you only allude to your intent, you constantly chip away at established faith, and that is fine, you must believe what you may.
            
            But I am a 'literal futurist' (to hang up a name tag) and in my experience, the bible still lives and walks and talks of what Christ is doing, not what He is supposed to have already done.
            
            John

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               donotfearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               
               Wonderful....... Very plainly stated and full of truth.

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10. 61

    kessposted 14 years ago

    The mark of a  spiritual person is the evidence of the testimony of the Christ.
    
    Who so ever possesses that testimony is spiritual.
    
    Now I am not saying those who say they love Jesus and claim to carry him in their heart have that testimony.
    
    The Testimony is that claim that only the Spirit of christ can give a person that does not come through reading but the knowing of the Spirit.

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       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Just testifying is all that one needs? That's it?
       
       Anyone can testify. That's easy.
       
       Who decides what is valid testimony and what is not?
       
       

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          aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          You just do the best you can and know that you will find out if your testimony was truth, or whether you were just a fraud, when you face Christ... the knowledge of this generally gets folk yto study to be approved and check all things against the witnesses; the word of God, the Holy Spirit and those in fellowship with you.
          
          If all those align, then you are probably on the right track, if they do not, then you need to look for the rebellious nature that is keeping you separated from Christ and ask for it to be taken away, so that you will be set free.
          
          But you were being factitious of course, never wanting nor expecting a serious answer.
          
          How sad.

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             Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             That doesn't mean squat on earth and may only be relevant after you die, what about when you're alive? Who is the authority on what is valid testimony and what is not then?
             
             
             
             It can all easily be faked. It's just lip service.
             
             
             
             That doesn't make anything valid, it is all self-appointed validation and nothing more. Again, who is the authority?
             
             
             
             So far, you haven't said anything that answers my questions, so it looks like your sadness is preemptive. 

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          TLMinutposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Not just the words like testifying at court would be. One's life should be a testimony that makes it all clear to an onlooker.
          
          And maybe it's having Jesus' testimony, the same one. It may not just be testifying anything ABOUT Jesus, but that your testimony is the same as his - I am one with the Father and people can tell when they're near you.

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             Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Anyone can act. TV evangelists are very convincing. Sorry, but that isn't an authority, it's just your own perception of things.
             
             We all know there is no authority and that anyone can be a Christian, all they have to do is say so. Not you or anyone else will ever know the difference.

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    RKHenryposted 14 years ago

    Deborah Sexton wrote:
    But Are You?
    I am not asking you to answer me. (This is from my article)
    
    Time-out a second here. Am I missin something here?  Is this a DS declaration channel only?  WTF?  What's up with this bs?
    
    Here.  My turn, I just published some new hubs.  French Nude Photography, The Magic Square, and Erotic Photographs.
    
    Say no to the above crap, and so yes to nudity.  Thats my declaration today.  Anyone else?

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       Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       LOL!

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          Rishy Richposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          

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    Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago

    When spiritual connection happens internally, it is reflected outwardly by action and word.
    
    Christ always taught from the inside out, not the other way around. So did all the other enlightened teachers. Hammering spiritual connection into someone never works. They must experience it for themselves, independent of anyone else. You can't take anyone else's word for it, you have to experience for yourself.
    
    And those who truly are spiritually connected rarely feel a need to prove it or blather on about it endlessly.

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       Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       ...This much is true.

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    Jeramiposted 14 years ago

    aguasilver said..
    I rather think you are simplifying the issue.
    
    On the assumption that Christ was who He said He was, then He knew that every statement He made was authoritative and capable of extension to His  'disciples' - which term refers to those who study and obey Christ.
    =============================
    
      Jerami says... I think that he was always aware of where he was and who he was talking to.  And the desciples also knew this and knew those things that would need to be pointed out to those that they were writting to.
      I think that is why they included this information in their letters.
    
    =================================
    aguasilver says.
    I realise that you are a Preterist, even though you only allude to your intent, you constantly chip away at established faith, and that is fine, you must believe what you may.
    ====================================
    Jerami .. You are only partialy corect...
       Had never heard of these diffrent divisions of beliefs until I came up with the one that I have.
       I later discovered that I an a preteristic Historists with a slight futuristic tendencie.
    I believe that the seal judgments were inflicted upon that Hebrew nation that rejected and killed their Messiah.(preterist)
      Concerning the rest; I fall into the Historist catagory, with the exception of the seventh trumpet and bowl judgment.
      I feel that these will come into fulfillment very soon.
    
      By seeing this way,  I do not see the prophesy as being all mixed together as like a bowl of spaghetti.  I see them lined out in a streight line having been fulfilled one after the other throught the span of history as written in our own history books.
    
    I agree with you totally where the scriptures are concerned.being as revelant today as they were back then, 
      It is the prophesy that I disagree with, what would apear to be most "EVERY ONE ELSE".
      As I said before, I did not learn my phylosophy from any place except for my study of what is actually written in the KJV of the bible. Uninterpreted as much as is possible.
      With the exception of these points I see mostly commonalities in those things that are expressed by most everyone on the forums.
      Call me crazy if you like, I'm confortable with that.

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       aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       "Call me crazy if you like, I'm confortable with that."
       
       I would never call you crazy, it just took me a while to work out where you were coming from. I have no problem with variant belief, having been through many differing levels of belief in my time.
       
       I came back to where I am (which is by no means acceptable to the church doctrinally)which is a basic understanding that Christ is who He said He is.
       
       The fact that we are able to communicate with His now via the Holy Spirit is a blessing.

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          Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Those were words of truth.No one should disagree with anything about it.

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             Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I am sure that I seem a bit hard headed in my beliefs. That  is because I   "think"   that I have unraveled the spaghetti and tied the pieces together reaching from the east to the west west coast and back again. 
                As I said; It is OK to think that I'm crazy.
             Anyone that really believes that they are right in a belief that  "no one"   agrees with must be crazy.

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14. 0

    Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago

    Christ then is rightly defined: Anointing, not the man, yes?
    Something 'Christ-ians' should recognize...

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    lovemychrisposted 14 years ago

    Evolve=LovEve 

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       Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       That's just plain silly.  Evolve = LovEve, as you say?  ...No wonder your equation spells wrong. Ha-ha!  For example, one of my cats just got done tearing the head off of a lizard today, is that love via evolution in your human sense of terminology?  Ha-ha! 

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    susanlangposted 14 years ago

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    
    
    New Age spirituality often incorporates aspects of the Earth, Moon, and outer space; the term New Age refers to the coming Astrological Age of Aquarius.[1]The New Age (also referred to as the New Age movement, New Age spirituality, and Cosmic Humanism) is a decentralized Western social and spiritual movement that seeks "Universal Truth" and the attainment of the highest individual human potential. It includes aspects of Occultism, astrology, esotericism, metaphysics, alternative medicine, music, collectivism, sustainability, and nature. New Age spirituality is characterized by an individual approach to spiritual practices and philosophies, and the rejection of religious doctrine and dogma.
    
    The New Age movement includes elements of older spiritual and religious traditions ranging from atheism and monotheism through classical pantheism, naturalistic pantheism, and panentheism to polytheism combined with science and Gaia philosophy: particularly archaeoastronomy, astronomy, ecology, environmentalism, the Gaia hypothesis, psychology, and physics. New Age practices and philosophies sometimes draw inspiration from major world religions: Buddhism, Chinese folk religion, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism; with particularly strong influences from East Asian religions, Gnosticism, Neopaganism, New Thought, Spiritualism, Theosophy, Universalism, and Western esotericism.[2] Additional terms for the movement include All is One[3] and Mind-Body-Spirit.[1]
    
    The modern New Age movement emerged in a distinct form in the late 1960s and early 1970s, although its roots can be traced back to the 19th and early 20th centuries. It gained momentum in the 1980s and strengthened with the Harmonic Convergence event in 1987. Diverse individuals from around the world practice New Age spirituality

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       Obscure Divineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       That's nice and all, but just remember, there are also so-called "New Age" religionists that are planning to hide via bunkers in Alaska because they're basically scared of the "Mayan Prophecy of Doom - 2012."  ...Sometimes, a person has to draw a line somewhere, as they currently have clinics for such things - that involve the other.  Ha-ha! 

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          susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I mearly provided information from other sources. I agree with you

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    Apostle Jackposted 14 years ago

    Thinking means you have not decided yet.
    I know that i am spiritual.The body without the spirit is dead.
    The vine without the root can not live.

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    sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago

    I think I am but according to you I'm nothing!Nice.

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    susanlangposted 14 years ago

    sneakor, I think you are very much alive!

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       sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks Susan, you're very thoughtful!

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          susanlangposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I try

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