God and Adam

Jump to Last Post 1-50 of 61 discussions (1310 posts)
  1. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Does God have feet?
    This question is pondered because of a very interesting conversation I witnessed yesterday. It pertained to the spirit of Adam. He no doubt had spirit within him. He breathed the very breath of God. However,  when God said, "in our image" could he have meant, his own creation? 
    A further note:  God is spirit. He invented flesh; he formed the image of man especially from dust. Everything else was spoken into existence. Does our own image=my very own creation?
    My second point concerns the likeness part. Could "likeness" have referred to Adam's original immortality? He was not banned from the tree of life at this point.
    Any scripture to confirm or deny these possibilities?
    What are your thoughts?

    1. wilderness profile image76
      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I think no one can know.  You can make up any definition you like for "likeness" as any one is as good as any other.  God isn't going to tell you the truth, and it doesn't matter anyway - given that no definition is superior to any other.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I think a search of the scripture led by spirit would yield a very workable discussion and a more than likely conclusion based on all of scripture.
        Let us see what happens.

        1. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Well, that's what I said!  A good imagination and a little reading and you have an instant definition, and one that even says whatever it was you wanted it to!

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            My bible doesn't change. It says what it says.
            "Rightfully dividing" is the tricky part when the spirit of the Lord does not lead.

            1. wilderness profile image76
              wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, your bible says what it says.  It just doesn't mean what it means; your continual twisting and interpretation of the words have made that abundantly clear.  Indeed, the OP is another example when you ask what others think the words mean.

              What does "rightfully dividing" have to do with what "likeness" means?

      2. Michael-Milec profile image62
        Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        God already said what He intended MAN  to know;all He said is truth; He gave us gift of faith  to carry everyone of us into different level of " knowing Him "...HE IS , it's amazing how He introduced Himself to Moses," I AM". Does God have feet? Sure He does, says  my faith.

        1. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          So He gave some people enough faith to fill the collection plate, others enough to feed from the collection plate, and the remaining large majority none at all so they will fill Hell with their tortured screams for His eternal pleasure. 

          Nice guy, your god...

          1. Michael-Milec profile image62
            Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Nice or not, ' God  has apportioned to each person a measure of faith.' (Romans 12:3). some do develop their portion of faith by choice , well -its a free market so that everybody makes decision to blame himself instead to blame me...

            1. wilderness profile image76
              wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              It's nice if you believe the PR, for you at least. 

              But there isn't even a hint of truth to the statement; too many people throughout history have had no faith and too many do not today. 

              To think otherwise is to believe that people that have never heard of your god nevertheless have faith that it exists.  Nonsense.

              1. Michael-Milec profile image62
                Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                The Creator of the Universe- for not better term, called ' God' made it very plain for everybody - in their inner consciousness He  has revealed Himself since the very beginning  His  invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity has been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through things that have been made= His handworks. So men are without excuse- altogether without any defense or justification… Whoever want to see, can see the heavens declaring the glory of God as the firmament shows and proclaimed His handwork.
                So, there is room for " to think otherwise" - just don't , please, blame me for  my choice to use my faith while the opposition practices other option.

                1. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Nice thoughts again, but they are without foundation.  They all boil down to your personal imagination and faith, not to anything factual. 

                  For your god has NOT made anything plain; if He had there would not be thousands upon thousands of differing opinions.  He has never revealed Himself at all, let alone since the beginning.  His supposed invisibility does NOT translate into power OR divinity, and has not been made intelligible or discernible, particularly through things that came to be without any action on His part.  Things such as the universe, sun and earth.

                  I shall not blame you for using faith, no, as long as you do not attempt to present your opinion and faith as fact.  It is not, and you have zero evidence it IS factual.  Looking at the sky, formed by natural actions without interference from a creator, and declaring there WAS a creator does not make it so.  Your faith is yours, and is not transferable to anyone else.  It certainly cannot be forced on anyone.

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image62
                    Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    H'm, it started with " God and Adam", meaning this forum and next dialog.Whenever these two are in focus, all the biblical account of the relationship or broken relationship was that Adam's distrusting the Creator for   exchange to put "faith "  elsewhere. This thing called faith is amazing : once a person develops it , begins  trusting the truth of the Word, is ahead of those who don't . By faith it is that we understand that he universe has been made by God's word, so that what we see came into being from what we cannot see. (Heb.11:3) To diminish "speculation " of those who live by faith , we are told "No one has ever seen God, and yet the one in human body who is divine, who is closest to the Father has show us who he is,"(John 1:18). Complex simplicity of God is manifested by deeds and explained  by the words as we follow Jesus from Nazareth recorded in the history of His time. Yet remain flexibility without faith freely  create thousands upon thousands of different opinions…even to the point denying of existence of God- being nothing new,- as we read in Psalm 14:1 " The…( you know this, everybody is familiar with this verse)… The king David's explanation of behavior of those denying God, has help me to make right decision to know  and to believe what is right in order to do the same , because God's word  says righteous are living by faith. Simple, undeniable simple : My  faith is mine, isn't transferable to anyone.Everyone has received portion of faith . Everyone has choice to be happy and blessed. For that purpose all this exchange; someone has been looking for the answer to this matter, and we only  are the instruments of divine Wisdom.

                2. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree Michael-Milec!
                  it is a mistake for others to want people to follow a specific set of dogmas they happen to follow: that kind of reasoning is not strongly based on he Love principle. Yes they might love their own ideas but a bigger and better Love will find a way to embrace other philosophies as long as they tolerate others and don't try to injure those who have different views.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    The bible didn't say tolerate other stuff. He said come away from them, one way to the father. If you love me, keep my commands, and how can two walk together lest they agree? And you are for me or against me. We know a fruit... You who are spiritual restore your brother and on and on and on.
                    He did not compromise his position. No discussion about which road the disciples preferred. Or what idea they preferred.
                    There really is no wiggle room on the standard; it is what it is. Petty quarrels over words among the followers was prohibited I think Paul said that. But to deny any leads to denying more.

    2. profile image0
      Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Cg, I studied this in my 20s and believe that Jesus was Melchizedek, the incarnation of God in the OT. For sure, according to scripture, Jesus was there at the beginning with God and the NT says the whole world was created by him and thru him. God sent Jesus to be His hands and feet and now that Jesus has returned to the Father, His children are awarded that calling. Good thread. smile

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I'm very interested in what you studied.
        I always found it mind boggling that Adam was created in the image and likeness of God; but he was made of flesh. If God has no flesh, what is the term in my image referring to? Well, in my own image could mean the image he came up with? He actually formed Adam; but spoke everything else into existence.  Can you recall anything that would help to confirm or deny this line of thought? It is really interesting to me. And I do value your spiritual connection; as well as a few others here.
        Thanks smile

        1. profile image0
          Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          The bible. lol

        2. Dr Lamb profile image54
          Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Here is the thing, scripture can and is vague on purpose so you can make your own stuff up. Does God have feet? Why would he need feet? If he has a body he would be measurable. First one needs to decide if there is evidence that said God exists and then would have to decide what said God is. But the logical answer to your question about man being made in Gods image would be that we would be like him/her in personality and emotions.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            So not a "spitting" image; but a spiritual one? God is not measurable. So, no "body" per se... I think this is what you are saying and it makes sense.
            I was taught that this "image" looks like God. But that really does not make much sense. God does not have flesh.

            1. profile image0
              Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I hope the above verses will help with that.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Beth! You're killin' me!!! Lol wink
                One moment I think you're for, the next, I'm not sure.
                Clearly you are light. But I'm not sure if you are agreeing with look alike or no. smile
                Do you think Adam looked like God or is the image spiritual and or simply God's very own creation?
                I'm just not positive how you interpret the scriptures. I just want to be sure I see the full picture of what God is most likely saying. I know you can help me clear it up in my head. Thanks for bearing with me.

                1. profile image0
                  Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I read too fast and miss ppl's main points all the time. So sorry.

                  Do I think Adam looked like God? Yes, b/c we are made in his image. Does that mean God is flesh and bone? No, God is spirit, as scripture says.

                  What do I imagine? That God is spirit that has the similar appearance to man.

                  I Cor 2:9
                  However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him--

                  I Cor 13:12
                  For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

                  I believe we cannot fully imagine the things of Heaven, but I have total faith that what I don't know, I don't have to know now and He will reveal all things when we are face to face. That is good enough for me.

                  1. wilderness profile image76
                    wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Yet...we cannot look upon God; his glory will destroy us.  But we can look on each other without problem.  How can we look like the glory of god without causing harm?

                  2. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Thank you! A great sigh of relief. smile
                    I too believe we cannot imagine. It just does not seem fathomable.
                    To say we can't imagine (which I agree with) and then say all we have to do is look in the mirror (which I'm mentally flip-flopping) seems kinda... confusing? 
                    I guess I do know that we may only speculate and this point is not of urgency to a spiritual walk. I just feel like a kid in a candy factory. smile can't you feel me tugging at your hem along each aisle? Lol!!! lt popped into my head and I threw it out there.
                    The scriptures you provided were key. The mirror was enlightening.

                2. Michael-Milec profile image62
                  Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Did Adsm look like God? Yes,my faith confirms ,"  No one  has ever seen God; the unique one, who is divine, who is close to the Father, has shown us who he is" (J.1:18); " He who has seen me (Jesus) has seen the Father ( (God), (J -14:9; 11.) Pilate pointing to Jesus from Nazareth said " look, here is the man." ( J.19:5). Adam, ( first) - God's chosen representative of human race. Created in His image- likens - so little of description at the " creation" story- all and everything with the " second Adam" Jesus conformed to the nature of God." My " discussion " in this matter begins and ends in faith, and I am more than persuaded by my trust in the Creator - faith it is giving me peace because as children of the Most high God we are born of His  Spirit - spiritual likeness- at the present rime we can see the bodily form  only.

            2. Dr Lamb profile image54
              Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              You've got it. If that helps you.

            3. wilderness profile image76
              wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              A painting looks like flesh, too, but has no flesh itself.  Neither would a bronze bust or even the voodoo doll the witch doctor uses, but they would all look like the model; they would have the "likeness" of the model.

        3. profile image0
          Beth37posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          God created the Earth
          Gen 1:1 a
          1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

          Who was helping Him create the Earth?
          26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
          27 So God created mankind in his own image,
              in the image of God he created them;
              male and female he created them.

          The NT says it was Jesus with God, creating the Earth
          John 1
          1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

          God is not body, He is spirit
          John 4:24
          "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

          So who was walking with man in the garden?
          Gen 3:8
          Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

          Jesus is the embodiment of God
          John 1:18
          No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
          John 6:46
          No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

          Verses on Melchizedek
          http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bib … lchizedek/

          1. Dr Lamb profile image54
            Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            What do you think that "our" is about?

            “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness"

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I lean toward Jesus being with God in the beginning. It makes the most sense to me.

        4. Disappearinghead profile image61
          Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          So if Eve was formed from Adam's rib then she was a clone. She must have had his genetic material, so that would make her a man?

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Good thought. But God formed her differently. She had her very own stuffs that distinguished her from the man. She was not the forethought that Adam was. She came to enhance his experience and give him children smile she plays a very important role in the complete aspect of things. She was the very last creation. But certainly not least. smile God topped off his creating with woman. She was the last work he put his hands to. Adam was impressed.

            1. Michael-Milec profile image62
              Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Yeah, Adam was impressed all the time even before he could see the excitement, beauty and the rest accommodated in his rib - until the Creator have presented her to him. Next is giving us a spontanious answer to "HIS OWN IMAGE" -- ( humanity will never gues aright to determine God's "gender"- hey HE IS FIRST OF ALL THE SPITIT- taking bodily form , including Jesus from Nazareth)-- as we are told " in the image of GOD created He him MALE AND FEMALE created He them. This is where my faith knows the truth abou the God-Creator - even my Heavenly Father. (( he/she applies to the bodily form of humanity, no spirit  included).

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                That rings true for me.

            2. Disappearinghead profile image61
              Disappearingheadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              You haven't answered the question though. If God did not use the genetic material in Adam's rib to create Eve, and seeing as all the complex chemical constituents to make a human are not all present in a human bone, then why bother with the bone? For the bible to be literally true as you appear to believe, it should say something along the lines of "Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, altered the genetic make up, and added in some further chemical compounds and minerals that he dug out of the Earth."

              1. Michael-Milec profile image62
                Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                The answer is there! The " God " is the Creator, he does things in His unique way. All those who believ already know.

                1. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  All those who believe already believe; knowledge is not a part of the belief equation.

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image62
                    Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    The  Wisdom is!  " the chief wisdom is the awe of the YAHWEH .( Prov.1:7)
                    ' Getting wisdom is the wisest thing  you can do!'
                    No apology might do any change,  ' we do walk by faith not by...' Once on that journey , there isn't looking back - " wisdom is the principal thing ; therefore get wisdom; yea with all  your getting, get understanding.."( Prov. 4:7)  you can use different translations of this message, however without  the Holy Spirit and faith , well, -the results might lead to endless   dialog to which none of us has time, and  my choice is not to continue in that direction.

              2. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Well where were you when they organized the canon? That's brilliantly described!  wink
                God gave her her very own chemical make-up. She had to do things that her guy was not made-up to do. smile she was not given his strength, so she needed his protection. She was made of him not like him.
                The genetics are original. We may only speculate as to what they must have been before death took over. The Lord must have needed to make some changes for adaptation to the newer dying world with its thorns and stuff.

          2. profile image51
            wayne92587posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Eve was not a Man, Mankind, he and she, Adam, mortal Man, the Flesh Body was born of the dust of the ground, was born of ordinary, natural means, the Evolutionary Process, cause and effect.
            Eve is just another side of Man, he a she, Mankind, Mankind's second Nature, is a Creation, is not born of ordinary, natural means, Evolution, cause and effect.
            Being a Creation Eve, was born of magic, out of nowhere, was born of God, created in the Image of the Immortal Spirit of God, Eve being Mankind's Spiritual Body, Adam being Mankind's Mortal, Flesh Body.

            It is Man's, his and her, Mankind's destiny, God's will for Man to walk the Earth having both a Flesh Body and a Spiritual  Body.
            Before Man's Spiritual Body can rise up, the Flesh Body must be laid to rest, the desires of the Flesh must die so that the Passion, the Boundlessness, of the Immortal Spirit, before Mankind can be made manifest a Free Spirit.

            1. profile image51
              wayne92587posted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Satisfying the desires of the Flesh Body is not an act of Free Will.

        5. Oztinato profile image77
          Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          The logical conclusion would have to be that it is the Sentience Itself of God that has been repeated in man. We are fully sentient beings and this is a God like quality or "image"/"likeness" that the Bible is referring to.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you. I feel that we're on to something. smile
            We are also able to "rule" our surroundings/make decisions, and control our thoughts.
            How do you feel about "likeness" being used to point out that Adam was created immortal "like" God?
            For the record, I don't believe that this is anything more than minor discussion about the deeper things/meaning of scripture. Belief either way is not something that will count against anyone. We also know, through the spirit,  the important matters of the law we have been given. We know his voice.
            And you sound familiar smile

        6. Michael-Milec profile image62
          Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Two different words are used in original Hebrew describing the creation of  man in " God's"  'likeness' and 'image'. By now we know that "God is  a spirit",- infinite, neither limited by parts nor definable by passions. He can have no corporal image  after which he made he body of man. The image and likeness must necessarily be intellectual ; His mind, his soul must have been formed after the nature and perfection of God. God was producing a spirit- a spirit too, form after the perfection  of his own nature. Thus God made man in such a way  as to reflect same of his own perfections- perfect in knowledge, righteousness and holiness-  and such resemblance qualified man for dominion; constituting man lord of all creatures that are destitute of intellectual and moral endowments. If you like a man in partnership with the Creator  supposed to be a "god" on Earth as The God is God in heaven.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Adam was made "god" of the fishies and stuff. smile I see what you mean though. Image and likeness. Spiritual. It just seems that flesh would put the body of man in a totally different category of spiritual.
            SirDent kind of prompted this line of thought when he spoke of the spirit aspect of Adam. And he has not input as of yet. Hopefully, we will hear from him. I really would like to know where he is on this.
            Do you know if the body of Adam was transformed at all by his disobedience? Was he changed? I know his body started the process of dying at that moment but did it change him physically?  Do we have word on that?

      2. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Beth,
        is this a Mormon belief? I love and respect the Mormons but i don't necessarily adhere to all their beliefs.
        I know their men practice a "Melchizedek priesthood" today.

        1. profile image0
          Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Not just Mormons.  smile

          When a Catholic priest is ordained, he becomes "a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek."  Words directly from the ordination and directly from Scripture as well.

          Just thought I'd toss that in there.

          1. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yes I understand that Melchizedek was a great priest of high repute etc.
            Once again the problem arises between the different denominations as to who is supposed to have a "monopoly" on the priesthood.
            Reading the scriptures of various denominations and religions with Love in one's heart easily solves the problem, but reading with the eyes of blind dogma causes confusion.
            Love says that each religion is allowed its own priesthood and all are equal. Blind dogma says the opposite.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Wow...!!! So that's what you want to convey?  Anything goes??? Ok.
              But that is not what Jesus taught. That is what I follow.

              1. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                No; I said only  things that are based on Divine Love are from God.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  What biblical things are there that meet your loving requirement? Which part meets the human standard of love?
                  In other words; which parts of the bible may we actually believe to be the word of God? Have you put together a reference of those texts that should be blotted?

    3. Don W profile image86
      Don Wposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      allegory
      ˈalɪg(ə)ri
      noun
      1. a story, poem, or picture which can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.

      1. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        that's a great start.

    4. profile image0
      SirDentposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Rev 1:15  And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

      This is speaking of Jesus, the Alpha and Omega.   Feet like fine brass. 

      Adam was created in the image and likeness of God.  Sin free, naked (not needing clothing). 

      When Adam ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he changed.  The spiritual man became carnal and he then needed clothing to cover his nakedness (shame).

      1. Michael-Milec profile image62
        Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Gen.2:17…' for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.' Adam died the same day he sinned - failed the test of trussing the Creator- the only FATHER he ever had , turned to believe lie of the satan. By being found guilty, man became a mortal creature, the image of GOD in him was deformed-- prolonging our curiosity of " i m a g e   and   l i k e n e s s  of GOD.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I do like where you went there. It is like we may not know the fullness of the image and likeness until the return of Christ. Adam changed when he sinned. He could no longer remain in his original form. The knowledge of nakedness is key. The fact that he began the process of death at that moment is also telling.

      2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
        EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        No problem then, all we need to do is join Nudist Colonies and we'll all be sin free.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Renewing of mind is what it takes.
          Nakedness causes sin in many arenas. wink

          1. wilderness profile image76
            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            How does nakedness cause sin?

            Don't you really mean the lust inside a person?  Not the skin on the outside?

            1. profile image0
              SirDentposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I am sure that's what she meant.  Nakedness tempts people.

              1Jn_2:16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

              1. wilderness profile image76
                wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Everything tempts people to do something bad.  Food, drink, hot cars, money - everything can be abused.  But it is not the hamburger that is evil, or the medium of exchange we call "money".  It is the person with the desire bigger than their morals.

                Nakedness is not evil, but the lust of the person viewing human skin can be.  So there is nothing inherently evil about nudist colonies in spite of the comment that nakedness causes sin.  It doesn't.

                1. profile image0
                  SirDentposted 11 years agoin reply to this
                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Then, Adam did the right thing by covering up his nakedness. You people should really try to get your stories straight.

                2. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  For some, restraint is of a steel quality. But I would say that for many more, the eyes take us on amazing journeys.
                  Nakedness was not sinful before sin entered. But now Adam has a much different view of the booty.

                  1. wilderness profile image76
                    wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Restraint need be only stronger than desire.  People CAN learn to control their emotions; just ask Mr. Spock.

                    But if god did not mean for man to have sex he would not have ordered them to perform the act.  Sex is not evil, either, and the only prohibition I recall is to stay away from the neighbors wife.  HE is up for grabs, but not his wife.

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                You are contradicting yourself. If Adam was created naked, (in the image of God), then that would mean the image of God is a temptation.

                How do you resolve this contradiction?

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  God don't need no swinging things wink he makes children with his hands. The tempting parts are not there.

                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Gibberish. Try to come up with something thoughtful rather than just stringing random words together.

            2. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              The appearance of naked t'na or bulging other stuff arouses thoughts that most likely should not be there for many. One could not even be thinking lasciviously; then one flash of the flesh...
              Ya know??? smile

              1. wilderness profile image76
                wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                No, I do not know.  People are responsible for their own thoughts, just as they are their actions.  Blaming sinful thoughts on someone else is no different than blaming sinful actions on someone else.  Or on Satan; while there are millions of scapegoats out there, people ARE ultimately responsible for themselves.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  The bible tells us that we may cause others to sin. And we will be held responsible.

                  1. wilderness profile image76
                    wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    It may well say that.  Doesn't matter - everyone is responsible for their own actions at the root.  No one else.

                    And in this matter, Wilderness trumps bible.  Our world is slowly deteriorating into people that cannot and will not accept responsibility for themselves, that will blame someone else, something else, anything but themselves for what they do.  And it is already hurting society as it degenerates into the concept that anything is OK because it's someone else's fault.

                    It isn't.  Our own actions belong to us, not someone else, and we are responsible for them.  Best that we learn that, and if it means the bible is false so be it.  It isn't the first time that has happened and it won't be the last.

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                But, nakedness is the image of God. Are you saying the image of God "arouses thoughts that most likely should not be there for many"?

                1. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  No.  The "image of God" has been redefined to indicate "spiritualness", or "mind" or some other invisible attribute, depending on the speaker.  Just not physical appearance even though that's what it says.

  2. profile image52
    melvinmcken9posted 11 years ago

    God has an immortal body of flesh and bones as well as spirit.  Man was created in "our image", that is in the image of God the Father and His son, Jehovah.  Jehovah was the God of the OT and Jesus Christ in the NT.   Melchizedek was mostly likely one of Noah's sons, Shem.  Adam was the premortal Michael the Archangel

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Please tell me where you got it that God was flesh and bones? That really would be helpful.

      1. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Hi Cgenaea
        it seems that God can take on flesh and bones if He/She wants to. Advanced spiritual ideas suggest God is pure intelligent energy that can do whatever He/She wants to.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          For sure. But made of flesh and bones???

          1. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I often refer to the wisdom of the Hindu philosophy where all of us are seen as "gods" within so God is depicted as having many heads and arms and feet to symbolise this idea. Another view would be to consider the idea of a God to be the correct story out of millions of possibilities so therefore such a Being could take on a human form like JC etc and have for a time flesh and bones.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I agree. But that does not sound like the point. Adam being flesh was not spirit but spiritual.  Godly but not God. He was God's creation. Likeness/image I was trying to get a full understanding of what he meant by in those two terms.

              1. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Yes I think we are basically in agreement here.
                My understanding of the generally accepted spiritual theory is that our "souls" are the "God part"  that is housed in the physical body (with its feet!)
                Hence if God Himself wanted to take on a physical form He would be the spiritual soul of that particular body eg. JC, Buddha etc.
                So we are two forms in one: one soul plus one body. ie Adam was a man with a spirit soul.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Sounds good. It seems as though we agree. The God part is separate and unequal smile flesh is given a biblical bad rap (reputation) and to dust it shall return.

        2. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          As god comes from another universe, a universe with natural laws much different than our own, it would seem more likely that god is composed of matter/energy/something that is totally foreign to our universe.  To say that he is made of the same energy that our universe is composed of would seem wrong from the start.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I kinda hear what you're saying there. He created this world and formed the people he placed in it. It does not seem that any of the material used would be of himself but that was part of the point of this forum. When God said "in his image", I felt that maybe he could have meant the image he made up own his own rather than Adam being a mirror image.

            1. wilderness profile image76
              wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I meant that god does not follow the rules of our universe; presumably the "materials" he is built of do not either.  He cannot, then, be flesh and blood.

              But not sure what you mean - He made up an image in His mind and copied that imagined image onto man?

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Kinda. He spoke everything else into existence. He did not even take part in giving the beast and his own kind or the crawling creepers nor the swimmers their names. But Adam and Eve he formed especially. In his (very own creation) image. Can you feel me??? smile

                1. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  No.  What a "(very own creation) image" means I have no idea.  Any more than I can decipher what "... he could have meant the image he made up own his own..." means.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    You're killin' me Wilderness! smile
                    Ok, instead of, "in our own image" we could replace that with "my very own masterpiece that I will put together myself" 
                    It just sounds logical to me at this point. I just never understood "in my own image" if one is flesh and one is spirit. God can be what he wants. Does he have an image per se? Just my thoughts.  I was hoping someone could give me a confirm or deny based upon scripture. Beth did well. But I am still wondering. With your statement that he must not be flesh and blood; I agree...

              2. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Wilderness
                That's a lot of lot of supposing. In the larger scheme of things does it matter if God is the same energy or not as the rest of the universet?

  3. Oztinato profile image77
    Oztinatoposted 11 years ago

    Wow that's wierd cuz I had a dream about God's feet only two nights ago. He was walking and I could hear His footsteps.

  4. Oztinato profile image77
    Oztinatoposted 11 years ago

    It can be an error to take a parable literally as this could lead us into missing the point of the parable. If a metaphor is robotically taken literally it can cause misunderstandings. If a poem is taken mindlessly literally the beauty can be missed. The Bible is made up of history, poetry, parable, metaphor and even humour; so we need to discern when to take something "literally" and when not to.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I agree there too. How do you suppose we keep from such egregious err? Holy spirit is my guess what do you think?.

      1. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I had to look that word up! (egregious)
        If you mean 'how do some people stop making that same terrible error of bible interpretation" yes I think its the Holy Spirit in two senses of the word. First The Holy Spirit Itself,  and then our own individual sensible compassionate holy spirit within. There seems to be too many religious people "taking things literally" when they are not supposed to for hidden agendas; sometimes very deeply hidden agendas! Many atheists, but not all, are also very very good at making the same bad errors of taking the wrong things literally: they often seize on this common error to mock religious points of view. in other words an atheist can deliberately use false logic without a religious motive but a political one.
        In all the confusion the Truth of course remains immovable.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I believe that the Lord made his words somewhat cryptic on purpose.  We have so many things that only true children of God may pick up on. His sheep know his voice; a stranger they will not follow

  5. profile image0
    Emile Rposted 11 years ago

    I haven't read through the thread and I know you have little respect for my opinion, but I'll share me penny's worth.

    If God is the observer, making judgments and coming to conclusions on the ultimate point of reality, then each human is in God's image. We possess that ability.

    God, by the text, made some sharp turns in his assessment of his creation. He found peace with the way the things he set in motion played out. He found the good in others and focused on it. And committed to focusing on it through the story of the sacrifice. The world, itself, didn't change first. He changed his attitude first.

    We have the ability to change our perception, just as he did. We also possess the ability to mold the perception of other life by our interactions with them. We aren't solely driven by instinct.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I have great respect for the way you put thoughts together. It's like you have a 7th sense. smile
      The instinct comes from the brain. What else do you suppose we could be driven by?
      And will you also please explain what you mean by God changing his attitude first?

      1. profile image0
        Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        The Old Testament view of God was one of a vengeful, wrathful God. Do as I say, or suffer the consequences. Bow to me and be blessed. Don't and regret it later. He belonged to Israel and they belonged to him through a contract made in the wilderness.With the exception of the creation story, that God was reactive through the entire text.

        I don't think you can look at the gospels and see the same God. That one chose to love the world, when the world did not know him. That one chose to send a gift when no one had asked for it, no one understood it and they couldn't fully appreciate it. That one was proactive.

        If it is the same God, then that God made some serious attitude adjustments toward humanity somewhere between the end of the Prophets and the appearance of Jesus.

        1. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          +1  The god of the OT was a spoiled, cruel, vicious child and nothing like the god of the NT.  Somewhere along there He had a massive change and grew up or something.

          *edit  Or the people that designed him decided that enough was enough.  We've seen that even after the changes in the NT: god made the crusades, the inquisition, the witch burning, etc., but given time god always has a change of heart and rejoins civilization.

        2. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          The way I see it, the God of the OT is the same, bow to me or suffer kind of guy as in the NT. Jesus came to show us the true mind of God; and what it all means.
          In the OT, the instruction was for the travelers. He wanted to keep them pure and unspotted. They did not listen. Then enters Jesus right on schedule. smile he provided a way of escape from the death of sin. He showed us how to do the word of God.
          God has not changed. And he never will. He will be doing a final sweep of those who do not listen. He promised.

          1. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Well, I suppose you can count me in the ones swept. Because, I honestly wouldn't want to have anything to do with a God like that. I'd grab onto the broom straws and jump away as far as possible when the broom reached full extension. Those who chose to stay would probably have a sad awakening after it was too late to do anything.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              That's interesting. To place oneself in the f- it category is remarkable. We each have our own decision to make though. God deals with our cognition. That area is very powerful. He made the way easy and potentially successful. No must for walking it if one would prefer swept.
              However, he WILL allow a big change of "attitude" as long as one lives. smile

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Honestly, genea. I don't foresee an attitude adjustment. I believe that the Divine is more than what you perceive it to be. I don't think it sits in judgment of us.

                Now, if the horror stories you want us to believe to be true are, then I'm not interested in participating.

                1. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Really?  You don't see another attitude adjustment?  I do.

                  It will start with the treatment of gays, when "god" decides they aren't all evil after all.  It will continue slowly, backing off the requirement that all mankind follow his rules, and allowing tolerance to enter the world of His followers. 

                  I actually foresee, in the next 50 years or so, as great an attitude adjustment as between old and new testament.

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Oh. I must have misunderstood. I thought she was saying her god would allow me to adjust my attitude to accept her idea of who it is.

                  2. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Gays are not beyond the mercy of God. Most that I have met, don't want it. Putting on the mind of Christ is necessary. But since that mind breaks one's comfort level with things that are sinful most people prefer their own minds. Not many people like to walk his path; as easy and successful as it is.

                2. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I understand. Many people follow you on that. The divine is not really perceivable. He gave instruction possibly for that reason. The horror stories are real. I will not participate in them either.

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Well, if Jesus was flesh and blood I would think he would have been perceived. Are you saying the apostles couldn't see him? Or, that he didn't perceive God? You lost me.

        3. Michael-Milec profile image62
          Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          The O.T. view of God is righteous, in first place and in certain cases " jealous ' and rightly so as you can find in reading the Book carefully. This world is His world, He is the Master of the universe leading the history of mankind on very well design course.

          1. wilderness profile image76
            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Well, at least His followers claim it is His world and that He is the Master.  God himself has never bothered to say anything himself, to show himself or even to let any hint of activities due to Him.

            Followers of other gods make a little different claim as well; the bottom line has to be that maybe it's all His, maybe not but the odds are very much against it.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              So which chance will man take???

          2. profile image0
            Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            See, it's responses such as yours to which i can only assume a stance of fear propels such comments. A one which also assumes every thought will be weighed to determine if you've payed homage to a liege lord correctly. I can't fathom such. Tell me, if i created a mini environment in a bubble, put sentient and sapient beings inside, can you imagine a 'righteous' moment when i could annihilate them to satisfy a jealous whim? If i did such, would I be a good God?

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              You don't know how to kill nobody right! smile lol

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                lol

                1. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  This is why I sometimesrefer to the compassion of the Hindu philosophy and the concept of reincarnation. It seems to be the truestexample of a real compassionate God and the neatest way to deal with sin. It also removes hell out of the equation. I am inter denominational.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    The bible says that there is hell. The bible also says that we cannot make up our own rules. That is not a stab at any other religion. It simply means that Christianiy is tied to the bible. It is what Christians believe. ALL of it. Those who pick and choose what they will have faith in/adhere to biblically are simply not on the path that Christ paved. Truth is truth. Where else do we find the words of Christ??? He said be doers and not hearers only. You look in the mirror and forget the image as soon as you turn away? Christians are convicted by many parts of scripture.  They do not puff up become proud and become haughty. They bow their heads in sorrow and pray to be healed. Christians love above all else. Love hurts sometimes. smile and the smack on the face in the face of truth, really hurts sometimes. I know that well!!!
                    But Jesus was not a conformer. He did not giggle and laugh with those who did not believe him. He ran with those who knew they needed what he had.
                    The bible is called reproof for those on the path. Not a history book to be poked at. He hid the message well from those who do not follow. He laid the path biblically.  To pick and choose what we will or will not agree with is not tolerated. He is not negotiating a contract. He did that already. What from the old must we adhere to??? Jesus told us in the new. We are not contracting. We are WALKING the path already laid already. Nothing added. Absolutely nothing subtracted. Jesus paid the cost to be the... he says what right is. When you have the FREE EAR you hear him.
                    ***FREE EARS AVAILABLE AT A LOCATION IN YOU!!! wink
                    *while supplies last

                  2. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    I respect Hinduism. I'm not sure how prevalent reincarnation could be, especially human to human, but anything is possible.

                    The Christian belief of hell can't be resolved to a loving God. It can't be easily resolved to the bulk of Jesus's teachings and it's impossible to resolve to what he stated are the two commandments all others hinge on.

                    I don't not respect their belief completely, since at its core it must begin with the premise that the person who holds such a belief is not worthy of heaven. There is humility there. And, the belief that we are all, at our core, alike is something i do agree with, I simply don't think we are bad

                    So, when they expand this view into a cosmic view, beginning with a position of insecurity causes the creation of an insecure God. Of course the fact that this entity will overlook their shortcomings would cause that entity to have to look for them harder in others. If it didn't, how could the scales of justice make sense? They know what they believe to be wrong. They have deemed themselves guilty of crimes. Someone must pay.

                    But, no father worthy of the capitalization of the f would want his children to live in self loathing. Nor would he expect them to hate the rest of humanity, hoping for their ultimate demise. But, as long as humanity judges one another we will live with insecurity since none of us are perfect. And we will hide our insecurity through attempting to highlight the shortcomings of others.

  6. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Uh...and your commercial was too long.
    Lol...

  7. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    I just remembered that Jesus very consistently rebuked his followers for fear, doubt, and disbelief.
    God did not supply us with the spirit of fear. When we suffer that emotion, we are not dealing with a holy spirit. No offenses intended. Truth of bible.
    If I were rich, I would find each of you and take you to dinner or recreation, or bowling, or Acapulco smile we'd kick it; and you would see how cool I am. I'm also very over myself. This is not a need to beat anyone over the head with anything.  Honest. I just input something from scripture to confirm or deny. It is how I check myself.  We are definitely ok to agree to disagree.

    1. profile image0
      Motown2Chitownposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think we disagree as much as you think.  Jesus did rebuke his followers when their faith wavered - as he does for me when I have moments of doubt or fear or find myself struggling to trust.  But he never let Peter sink when he began to sink as he was walked on the water.  When the disciples feared the storm while he slept, he didn't abandon them or lessen his love for them.  And when Thomas asked, he allowed him to touch his wounds.  He didn't tell him his faith was unsatisfactory.

      I trust-even when I doubt.  I trust-even when I'm anxious or afraid.  And I've never been let down.  And, oh how I've been chastised and continue to walk through the refiner's fire daily! 

      It's just the ways in which you and I express our faith that make the difference-and that's totally okay.

      smile

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Ok by me smile

      2. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        The is a big difference between a little parental rebuking and the wholesale slaughter of entire races.
        God rebukes, man slaughters.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Right. And Jesus rebuked all the time for faithless and fear. To say doubt is about being human is cloudy. Jesus knew they were human but no excuses were provided for faithless or fearful. Truth is all that matters.

        2. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          ??!! The wholesale slaughter of innocent Egyptian first born is not "parental rebuke"??  Ordering His followers to another nation, to kill or enslave every living being there is "parental rebuke"??  Wiping out entire cities with fire and brimstone, including children and infants is "parental rebuke"????

          I'm glad you're not MY parent!

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Oh that... well, the Egyptian first-borns were killed as a sign that the hand of the Lord was involved and serious about his people being released.
            The land they were able to seize had been given them. They were instructed to take the land. No concern for the inhabitants taking it back or bringing their ungodly practices into the fold.
            Sodom and Gomorrah?  Not one good man???
            I cannot sit in judgment of God the father. He has always had a plan for the purity of his people who are in the world; but because of trust and faith in him alone are not of the world. It has nothing to do with being special or respected over others; it has to do with the covering of the spirit with the blood of the one special son. That blood makes one clean in the eyes of the Lord. Scarlet sins become white as snow; not through your actions, but your faith that shows.

            1. wilderness profile image76
              wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              The Egyptians weren't "parental rebuke" then, but certainly was still "wholesale slaughter".  Just as the neighbors the Jews were instructed to kill and enslave.  I wonder if God would give me your house?  And you and your family to have as slaves as well?

              Knowing the reaction to S&G, I specifically spoke of the children and infants there.  Were they all evil, too?

              You may not sit in judgement of your God, but I definitely will, and that evil creature is not fit to shine my shoes.  Not if it is as described in the sacred writings it produced through man.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                The Lord does things differently now. smile Have you ever heard of the new testament?  It was a turning point. Jesus came; fulfilled the law and mixed the races. Now the bible does say that the treasures of the wicked are stored up for the righteous. He probably won't take MY house and give it to YOU, but... wink
                He was not a parent of the Egyptians in that time. So you are RIGHT there (+1)!!! As for shoe shining? That may be the least of worry for now. We've got bigger fish to fry. smile

                1. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You mean your lord hasn't committed any atrocities for some time; an eye blink in His lifespan.

                  Unfortunately that doesn't mean He won't turn on us again.  Perhaps another dinosaur killer, or a rogue sun spinning through the solar system.  It might give him a giggle to turn the sun off for a month or so and deep freeze the world, killing all life once and for all.

                  Who knows with that psychopath?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Please get hand sanitizer. smile you just got your fingers dirty. Lol

          2. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            eer.......I said that wholesale slaughter is not from God but from man.
            Got it?

  8. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Slaughtering races? Is there a biblical race slaughter? Oh Noah, Sodom and Gomorrah??? But that wasn't race slaughter. It was some kind of a hole slaughter; disobedience and evil and lie preferences.

    1. wilderness profile image76
      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely.  The infants in Sodom were disobedient (at 2 months of age), evil and lied all the time.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Yes!!!  ... little rascals!!! smile lol

        1. janesix profile image58
          janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          How is that even remotely funny?

          People don't bring these things up because they think it's FUNNY. People think it's atrocious.

          I personally think it's atrocious to condone something horrific like that, and to think it's OK for God to do it.

          1. wilderness profile image76
            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            There can be no real counter, so...laughter.  Make a joke, make fun of it.  Anything but recognize it for the truth it is.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Yes! I thought that you just didn't realize it. But you know huh??? Yet...

          2. JMcFarland profile image71
            JMcFarlandposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Personally, I find it atrocious that anyone should glorify the events of the first passover.  A story where god hardened the heart of the Pharaoh so that he would go against his decision to let the Israelites go numerous times just so he could keep punishing him with plagues.  On top of that, for the last plague, god commanded the Israelites to smear blood over their doorways so that he would somehow be forced to remember that they were HIS people so he would not kill them as well so that he could kill the firstborn of everything in Egypt, from the cows to the goats to the human beings.  It's a horrific story, and one that does not point to a loving or benevolent being.  If that being were a human being, he would be condemned as worse than Hitler, yet so many people choose to worship and love it anyway.  Such a concept is untenable to me.

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Hence, my point that these atrocities are not from God but from man.
              Its easy just try it: if you interpret with the eyes of Divine Love you can discern between the acts of God (Love) and the acts of man.

          3. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I KNOW what you think. You have made it no mystery. However, you know what I think too. I will never sit in judgment of God. He is grading me one day. I know I will not be able to explain hatred or malice toward him.

            1. janesix profile image58
              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I don't hate God. My feelings are mixed. I don't know God well enough to decide what I feel.

              I just don't believe that the God in the Bible, or Koran, or the Gods of the Hindu Vedas or other religions are accurate portrayals of God. I have been a Christian, and before that I believed in Kali, and even entertained the possibility of the Egyptian gods. My current theory is that ALL religions are probably wrong, yet still hold some basis of what the true reality of God is. I think religions are poor interpretations of individual experiences of God, which have then been misinterpreted even further by fanatics without any real experiences of God.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Granddaddy said, "if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.
                Truth is (and everyone knows this) we will never know all of anything as far as religion goes. We pick and stick with that. Or we "waver with each new doctrine"

                1. janesix profile image58
                  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I totally disagree. I think choosing something(religion in this case) just so you have "something to stand on" isn't a good idea in any sense. It might be comfortable. It might make it easier to live and be content. But it just leaves you in a position that might be faulty. How do you know you chose the correct one? There are many religions to choose from.

                  We may not ever know the truth of religion. But I personally want to try and figure out what is truth and what isn't. If that means tearing everything apart that I "know", and repeatedly if necessary, then I am willing to do that.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    It IS obvious. So tell me, how will you know when you have researched and poked at anything long enough to end the search for truth? Possibly too good a question, but I would really like to know how one with your same mindset will ever end the search for truth and pick; which is the supposed goal. Or is perpetually searching the goal in itself? Because it is pretty hard to hold one to anything to which they have not become committed.

                2. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Pick and stick is always best, isn't it?

                  Easy, we don't need to analyze and think, we can just go with the flow.  No effort required.  The only real con is that we can never progress - we can never improve or learn - but that's a small price for easy.  Isn't it?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Aint no flow to go with here. Those who speak for God are few and far between (where are you SirDent? sad ) on this network.
                    We progress in faith. It is a great progression, and often painful.
                    But the reward is great too. Progression in wisdom...??? Shooooooot... none compares smile

            2. janesix profile image58
              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              "He is grading me someday"

              Perhaps. But in your Bible, he is grading you on OBEDIENCE. To him. Not much else, if anything.

              I think God does grade us, but I think it is on our behavior. On our moral decisions. On how we treat others.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                The bible is the rubric. It tells us exactly what God grades on. Yes, everyone.

                1. janesix profile image58
                  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I realize that. And you choose to do what the Bible says.

                  I don't

                  To each his own.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Exactly.

              2. Michael-Milec profile image62
                Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                His message to the mankind proves what you just said;" ... So that each one may receive [ his pay]  according to what he has done in the body, whether good or evil, [ considering  what his purpose and motive has been, and what he has achieved  been busy with and given himself and his attention to accomplishing.] This God, the Crator of the universe is  righteous God, he made it so  simple from the very beginning : find out what is right-- and do it. You - no one does need the "Bible" for making right , right ,  The Bible makes it much easier to know God, His wil , to do right and live righteously .

                1. janesix profile image58
                  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  The Bible does have some wisdom in it, and some truth. But it is so mixed up with things that contradict any wisdom it might be attempting to teach that it is useless as any real guide.

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image62
                    Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    True. It all depends on personal faith. Even Jesus left it to every person discretion : be  it according to your faith.

                  2. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Not if you look spiritually. All of it is true. Rightly dividing takes spirit.

                  3. Michael-Milec profile image62
                    Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    @ jenesix , the Bible integrates ( all the God wanted humanity to know ) including  His word, the word of  men, the angels, the devil as well in some cases the words of animals.  As far as " the Word of God speaks  is alive and full of power- making it active, operative  energizing and effective; it is sharper  than any two edged sword, penetrating to the dividing line of the breath of life (soul) and [the immortal] spirit, and of joints and marrow [ that is of the deepest parts of our nature] exposing and sifting  and analyzing  and judging the very thoughts and purpose of heart.
                    And not a creature exists that is concealed from His sight, but all things  are open and exposed , naked and defenseless to the eyes of Him with Whom we have to do. " ( New Testament , portion of the Bible )

      2. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Deleted

        1. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I think so.  You're claiming the bible was not inspired by god, that he did not write it through the hands of men. 

          That nothing in the bible can be considered as true; just claim it was put there by man and is not based on Divine Love. 

          I get it.

          1. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            No, you still haven't got it. The truth in all scriptures regardless of religion is based on Divine Love (which comes from the Divine, get it?).
            I'm still waiting for a response re; Wilderness,
            I disagree. my point is very original! smile
            Also I respect science in the same way I respect any other religion. I allow them their Faith.
            I note that Scientists like to take the credit for many earlier religious discoveries; also science evolved out of early religion so there are only irrational and emotive reasons for scientists turning their backs on their early heritage. Why be ashamed of the religious roots of science? It has to reveal a deep seated antipathy towards evolution! smile My point is that Science has not eliminated Faith, the irrational, or emotion from their mental processes therefore this is hampering the forward momentum of true science. Scientists should accept their own evolutionary roots, admit their faith and purge out the irrational emotion reactions to religion

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I don't know who or what just deleted one of my posts a moment ago but I had only made a very brief and polite response to a post.
              ????

          2. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Well that is exactly what you get when you attempt to disjoint the bible.  Disbelief in some leads to disbelief in much more.

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Excuse me? I was defending the principle of Gods Divine Love against an atheist who was trying to label God a murderer!
              So are you saying you removed my comment defending Gods love?
              That's very odd.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                If I may remove your post, I know nothing of it. I wouldn't if I could. Editing is not my purpose here. smile

  9. Oztinato profile image77
    Oztinatoposted 11 years ago

    As this is a brief discussion I will also try to be brief.
    We agreed a while back there several aspects to viewing Bible content. Remember? Not to take a poem literally etc? Have you now changed that?
    Further to that by basing a view of the Bible on the eyes of Divine Love we can safely remove all attempts to eradicate other entire racial groups as NOT of God. This makes up only a small portion of the Bibles content and almost none of the New Testament which is mainly about Love.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I hear you but we cannot edit the bible. It was already done. smile There are some poems some analogy and some metaphor but I believe God had some terrifying ways of dealing with the sinfully wicked. He hates sin. When you proudly wear that cape, he cannot see the glory of the blood of Jesus. Your scarlet sin is just that. No covering.

  10. Oztinato profile image77
    Oztinatoposted 11 years ago

    Well I just replied but cant see it again. Another delete???

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I believe some posts are unavailable for viewing at one point or another.  Possibly the ones that are being responded to. I have noticed that before.

      1. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Dont tell me atheists are running the site!?
        Every time I win arguments against them I get switched off !!

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Atheists run the world. Remember? wink
          The particular comments usually reappear after some time. Possibly on the previous page as people sometimes respond quickly and the system seems to need to catch up and reorganize based on order??? I'm not sure. But you usually can go back a page or two and find the comments after 1/2 hour or so.

  11. Oztinato profile image77
    Oztinatoposted 11 years ago

    I'll try again: the parts referring to the annihilation of entire peoples/races are a tiny part of the old testament and almost non existent in the new testament which is mainly about Gods Love.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I hear what you are saying but though God is love without doubt; he is judge and executioner. He is just and merciful to those with the covering. He protects them; chastises them; corrects them; and he punishes them.

      1. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I agree i agree.
        He just doesnt do mass murder.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Doesn't the bible say something about that? He did take his "hand" and go through the town of the Egyptians. And helped the Israeli armies to demolish town after town. And he did rain fire on Sodom and Gomorrah. Are those the parts of scripture that you feel should be omitted/adjusted/compromised???

    2. wilderness profile image76
      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Are you saying that we should ignore such repeated insanity because there are a lot of other words in the book? 

      When you sit on the court bench with a mass murderer in front of you, will you set them free because they tell you they love everybody now?

      1. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Wilderness
        Why do you irrationally refuse to see my point?
        I sense great hostility and emotion.
        Are you blaming God for bad stuff? That shows an indirect belief in God as you are blaming Him.
        Perhaps you were let down by JC when you were a child?
        Do you want to talk about it? My door is open.

        1. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I understood your point to be that mass murder by god was not in every chapter of the bible and should therefore be ignored.  Was there something else?

          When God does bad stuff, then God gets the blame, yes.  When He kills kids, or entire cities, then he gets the blame.

          Been let down by that particular fable all my life.

          1. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Can't you see that your statement here shows that you believe in God?

      2. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Wilderness
        You still havnt explained why you deny the early evolution of atheism.

        1. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          As atheism started as a lack of belief in gods and is still a lack of belief in gods, I am at a loss to see where the evolution happened.

          1. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Atheism and its accompanying code of ethics evolved out of religion (theism).
            Science and Art evolved out of religion (theism).
            I am just asking you to accept your roots and to accept evolution.

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Let me put it this way: it is apparent that the New Atheist Movement has created an ethical vacuum in many, but not all, of its adherents.
              The most obvious example to me is a widely held view that hypocrisy now has no meaning. For example; all ethics, science and art evolved out of religion (a belief in God/God’s) but many atheists,not all, deny the evolutionary roots of their own philosophy while at the same time defending the principle of evolution! Ergo, hypocrisy.
              This new Homersimpsonion atheist view that “everyone is stupid except me” does not count as a philosophy or an ethic. For example, if a budding new individual atheist (say for example a Peter Singer type) was to develop his unique code of ethics by practicing Zoophilia with a pig and happened to create a new types of AIDS this would have to be seen as “bad”, stupid, undesirable or possibley evil as it would be potentially fatal to millions of other humans.
              In other words atheism as a philosophy as described by ……..doesn’t work (yet).

              1. wilderness profile image76
                wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Can you make a case for art coming from religion?  You can start with the earliest art, in cave drawings and show that religion had people drawing pictures of animals.  Or making jewelry. 

                And then do the same for science; show that religion is the root of the concept of testing and observation before declaring truth.  That the idea of gaining knowledge via experimentation comes from religion.  Not, mind you, priests or other religious people, but from the tenets and teachings of religion.

            2. wilderness profile image76
              wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              And I'm just asking you to understand that atheism came long before any religion.  While Ugh Ugh the caveman had a god or two, his ancestors did not; when humanity invented it's gods it came about from curiosity and a drive to understand, which means those questions had not been answered.  Which means there was no god to answer them.

              And to think that the scientific method of thought and research came from the methodology of theological studies is laughable.  It most definitely developed independently, although likely from people that at least professed a belief in theism; it was dangerous indeed to fail to do so when science caught hold.

              1. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Wilderness I can't agree with that. theism has been around as long as humans and probably before with Neanderthals.
                All early scientists were either priests monks or god fearing men. This is all well recorded by history.

                1. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  All right - please put the evolved religious thought to use and prove that scientifically.  Don't just make the claim - prove it with tests, observations and/or evidence.

                  What was the earliest god, if you know it was before Neanderthals?  What were it's orders, how did it interact with man?  Where did it live and which tribe invented it?  You've made a claim, back it up with evidence.

                  You most definitely do not know early scientists, using the scientific method of investigation, were theists - you merely know that they said they were because the alternative was death, torture or at best incarceration.  And then only in Western countries; very early chinese peoples were bordering on using the method long, long ago.

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    This is a very shaky argument. You are speculating, about as much as he is. If a person professes to be something we can only take them at their word. Claiming people were wearing a theist coat, out of fear, is simply attempting to back up your beliefs.

                    And, asking someone to identify the gods of lost civilizations is like the missing link argument by creationists. You refuse to consider his point of view simply because he doesn't possess a specific piece of information, while you ignore the vast amount of information he does offer.

                    Very few known civilizations didn't have a deity, or two. We can look at the odd indigenous tribe which doesn't and claim that proves early man didn't but that would be foolish and shortsighted. Archeological evidence consistently points in the other direction

                  2. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Wilderness,
                    I can't do your homework for you. Just pick up any good book on archaeology and have a read at what the atheist Scientists themselves are telling you about early forms of religion; and the many proofs they have discovered in early cave art and burials. It is basic high school education.

                2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Actually, when Neanderthals first started to integrate with humans, they had their first taste of "faith" when they watched  shamans perform rituals right before a big hunt.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Oops... I always thought Neanderthals were considered early humans. smile

  12. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    To my understanding, the bible does not borrow or rehash. But corrects. That is what Jesus came to do. The ideas that some have about faith are off-kilter based upon the bible and the words of Jesus. We have a new and improved understanding because of his ministry. No one here may say that they have not been made aware of the commands he left with us. No one may say when they stand face to face with God that they did not know. The bible promised that all will know. And all will bow and confess that he is Lord. Now or later...

    1. janesix profile image58
      janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You can't say the story of Jesus was a "correction" of the story of Osiris, because the Bible says that happened 2000 years ago. The story of Osiris originated at LEAST four thousand years ago, and probably longer.

      I won't bow to anybody.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Osiris schmiris! wink check your book. There were a few differences between the two. Jesus came to show us God.  Do you believe that?

        1. janesix profile image58
          janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I didn't say Jesus and Osiris were carbon copies. And that's just ONE example. Mithras was even more similar to Jesus that Osiris.

          And no, I don't think Jesus came here to save us.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Your last statement is the ringer. No Christianity for you. Is that a problem? Because you seem pretty perched. smile Jesus coming to save us is one of the biblical basic truths.
            My take on this mythology is that they are basically recognized as myths.
            Quite possible in my mind that someone has visions and drew them out. Could have been predictions. smile
            I wholeheartedly believe the biblical accounts. Now our conversation will onlybe mmisdirected. We are speaking from two different planes. I, Jesus spiritual. You, another kind. How will we climb this mountain?
            Uh, you want me to move it for you? Lol!!!

          2. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I know where youre coming from. Its called comparative religion and its a subject studied at uni. Many religious people get stuck in one book. I read all the scriptures and study archaeolgy.

            1. Michael-Milec profile image62
              Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              The Alpha and Omega - Jesus - The Lord God Almighty , who was , is and ever shall be isn't in " religious" completion with anybody or anything. The term " religion" is created by man for the sake of communication when comparing invented religious systems. For that reason the " bible" containing the word of living God is superior to any other " religious " writings  since the Word is alive and  active ; faith leads up to discovery of supernatural .

              1. Dr Lamb profile image54
                Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Did I read that right? Am I in an episode of the Twilight Zone?

              2. JMcFarland profile image71
                JMcFarlandposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                You can make that claim all you want, but you saying it does not make it true.   In order for you to demonstrate your claims truthfulness,  you would have to provide evidence for discussion - something you seem unwilling to do.  Or maybe it's because you know you can't,  and you just want to preach at people and make a bunch of claims that cannot be defended.

                1. Michael-Milec profile image62
                  Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  To "provide  evidence" for the sake of discussion isn't what the believers are told to do , and don't expect me to expose myself to everyones mock or ridicule . However you  probably have  been aware by now the following words of Jesus saying ,"In very truth I tell you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I am doing, and he will do even  greater works than these because i am going to the Father…"(John 14:12); likewise "Wherever men believe, these signs will be found: men will drive out demons in my name, speak with new tongues, and take up serpents in their hands; if they drink anything deadly it will not harm them; they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover."( Mark 16:17.18) . The gospels are detailing the "deeds of the kingdom" performed by  Jesus from Nazareth's  earthly life : the people came to him asking for  help ,believing they will get it  -he  just said " be it according to your faith…. or  even " your faith made you well ." In his home town he didn't do many of those "supernatural miracles"- we are told , because of "their unbelief". More of His works you can read in the gospels, more of the manifestation the same  is going on since His followers obediently doing his will,whenever and wherever is both receiving faith and giving faith. Quite many times happened in my presence , and by me being used as an obedient vessel to his word. Never bother to count as something extraordinary, just giving glory for His faithfulness. It's no big deal when a believer speaks to the storm to stop, or the demons leave a person's body as it is no big deal when it doesn't. Have you ever witness the presence of the anointing in the action? - Just asking. Not needed to be answered. We who know the will of the Lord, we also know that we are accountable to ourselves and to the Creator, not to any other authority .So what you want from me? Just please be fair and polite in communication. We are here for you and everybody else, sharing the irrevocable truth as a sign of times. And OH, how the scripture is being fulfilled even as we speak and no human can do  much about it.

                2. Michael-Milec profile image62
                  Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  To "provide  evidence" for the sake of discussion isn't what the believers are told to do , and don't expect me to expose myself to everyones mock or ridicule . However you  probably have  been aware by now the following words of Jesus saying ,"In very truth I tell you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I am doing, and he will do even  greater works than these because i am going to the Father…"(John 14:12); likewise "Wherever men believe, these signs will be found: men will drive out demons in my name, speak with new tongues, and take up serpents in their hands; if they drink anything deadly it will not harm them; they will lay hands on the sick and they will recover."( Mark 16:17.18) . The gospels are detailing the "deeds of the kingdom" performed by  Jesus from Nazareth's  earthly life : the people came to him asking for  help ,believing they will get it  -he  just said " be it according to your faith…. or  even " your faith made you well ." In his home town he didn't do many of those "supernatural miracles"- we are told , because of "their unbelief". More of His works you can read in the gospels, more of the manifestation the same  is going on since His followers obediently doing his will,whenever and wherever is both receiving faith and giving faith. Quite many times happened in my presence , and by me being used as an obedient vessel to his word. Never bother to count as something extraordinary, just giving glory for His faithfulness. It's no big deal when a believer speaks to the storm to stop, or the demons leave a person's body as it is no big deal when it doesn't. Have you ever witness the presence of the anointing in the action? - Just asking. Not needed to be answered. We who know the will of the Lord, we also know that we are accountable to ourselves and to the Creator, not to any other authority .So what you want from me? Just please be fair and polite in communication. We are here for you and everybody else, sharing the irrevocable truth as a sign of times. And OH, how the scripture is being fulfilled even as we speak and no human can do  much about it.

                  1. janesix profile image58
                    janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Why even bother in the first place?

                    Why not just preach and leave?

                    I don't get what you're doing here if you don't want open communication.

                  2. JMcFarland profile image71
                    JMcFarlandposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    1 Peter 3:15 "But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"

                    It seems like that is EXACTLY what you are told to do.

              3. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                MICHAEL MILEC
                Its OK to believe "our football team is the best" but to say there are no other football teams might look a little odd!
                Just imagine if a football team made that claim during a football season: there are no other teams only ours!

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Jesus said that there was only one team that will make it to the father. All other teams...
                  Are there really other teams?
                  One true God...one itty-bitty way to him...
                  What other teams do you mean?

                  1. janesix profile image58
                    janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Just a fun tidbit I found that I thought you might like:) I am not into gematria, but I at least thought it was interesting.

                    In Bible gematria, Jesus equates to the number 3168, and Bethlehem is located at 31.68 latitude. This I found not at a gematria website, but a number/geography one, mostly surrounding the number 3168. It was quite fascinating.

                  2. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    The other teams are the different sects of Christianity  and also the other religions
                    They each need to respect one another's beliefs. It is disrespectful not to respect other cultures beliefs. If a belief causes harm to the weaker members of society or creates violence then of course we need to condemn that. In general however, there is a lot of room for more tolerance of other doctrines between the different churches and even the different religions.

                  3. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    there you go again: hinting that there is some silent one special sect out there you are defending.

                2. Michael-Milec profile image62
                  Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  God created a " soccer team " first, just look around; and a season is being extended : we still enjoy the grace time period.

                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Then, God created a soccer ball and called it an 'atheist'

  13. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Oops...sorry; I forgot.

    1. Oztinato profile image77
      Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      ANNOUNCEMENT:
      I just out debated an atheists blog on another thread on Hub and was immediately locked out for it.
      It appears Hub could be run by atheist moderators.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Well ok, some people who wear the Christian title do get locked out for winning arguments and occasionally embarrassing super smart asses with big fat BS degrees. smile I forget that part... no biggie.  This battle was won thousands of years ago. The Lord will not be shushed. He's much mightier.
        The unfair ban...discussed over and over.
        It has happened to most of us repeatedly.  But it seems that the Christian must not be as interested in the report button.

        1. Oztinato profile image77
          Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          OK
          I admire your attitude. Anyway I complained and got my post through.
          I am not trying to detract from the Truth and Beauty that is in the Bible.
          There are two definitions of faith: faith the noun refers to doctrine but faith the verb is an action of deep hope. As all doctrine is changeable I see faith in action as the more truthful and real Faith.
          All people theist and atheist live on hope even if they dont admit it.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah, we discussed that too. Faith Everyone has It, was the name of the forum. Also, True that people attack to get a banable response? was another discussion we already had. Not too long ago. smile You are right on-track!
            Your faith shines as well as a handful of others here. (I just cannot get with the idea that God is not what the bible says he is; nor that he did not do what the bible says he did) God does not think as we.
            The OT was full of his vengeance and wrath. I believe he wanted to show us his power and his intolerance of disobedience. Though each of us struggle he desires that we have the right ideas about what he says is right, so we will at least be headed in that direction.  He can work with a repentant heart. He can work with humility. He can increase faith and faithfulness. But we must meet him where HE is. He doesn't change his way to appease. Spirit and TRUTH.
            Some will never get that

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              That's right: no one can live without hope/faith in something.
              There are many believers who study the Bible from a point of archaeology; they are still believers.
              As a person who studies the Bible and religions in this way my personal view is that the main value of the OT is its pre-figuration of JC. Of course it has other great value.
              People, like me!, who intellectualize, need to study the prophecy and events in the OT to fully understand the events of the NT.
              For example, its hard to fully understand the concept of sacrifice without understanding about ancient Hebrew concepts of sacrifice.
              That being said, it is better to believe "without having seen" and the pure in heart and the simpler believers don't need to know all this stuff. It is part of God's plan to provide for both types of people: those who might need a higher level of study to believe and those who don't need a higher level of study.

  14. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Your share would be 3cents in light of the fact that many would follow you to the Neanderthal testing site sleeves raised. Lol (anything for a buck...)

  15. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Lying to people and changing the words of God to be more "palatable" turns people away from God and/or causes one to sin. Not truth.
    Truth frees.

  16. Michael-Milec profile image62
    Michael-Milecposted 11 years ago

    Does anyone else have this same image as seen on my pages? The las comment:
    I
    will
    agree
    with
    you
    there.
    no chance for "reply ".(Looks strange)

    Under the assumption we continue "God and Adam" - forum thread, one would presuppose we are talking about "God" revealed on the pages of the Bible in English language, given him this name "God" by 'man' for better communication. Substantially we are talking of the living being- a person, omni present, omnipotent, ever existing spirit, - spiritual being as you and me- the real person- and every single person IS SPIRIT,SOUL, -living in the body. A faith in this only living God is the  way of communication and trust is  link to relationship with Him.Without these is impossible to know  Him, experience  communication with Him or give wisdom and knowledge of Him to anyone denying these two virtues. Actually all  this is beside  the point while in this conversation we are too far of the things His nature when we are  talking about "religions". The spiritual things of supernatural God can't be compared to any other "religion" , because Creator of the Universe isn't religious, didn't created any religion what so ever. He was and is communicating with His creation while the other religion gods don't .
    Let's look the first recorded instance as this "God" gave His name to Moses   mentioned in the Bible; the God said, "I AM " .  Once again we are dealing with the  translation - 'eh-yeh =  I AM in Hebrew ; 'eh-yeh  'a-ser  'eh-yeh - that is " I AM WHAT I AM": ( Ex.3:9) -God  answered  Moses "I AM WHO I AM. this is what you must say to the people of Israel: "I AM has sent me to you." At that time of the history this was the only people who has earned God's attention because of FAITH in His provision.
    Perhaps one of the best proof of God's communication is promised redeemer to all people. Decades before coming of "Emmanuel"- God with us,- has been written into details how it will happen as well when it happen the story of Jesus from  Nazareth presented God's presence in human body. Those who read the Gospels and other historical evidence know about this very well. No other religions "gods" have ever communicated this way, never proved word - to be life manifested in flesh and when He came- the Word- Jesus - " to those who received Him he gave authority to become children of God to those  who believe in HIM. They were BORN , not from human stock, nor from physical desire, nor from the will of man , BUT FROM GOD."(John 1:12.13.)Let's remember the FAMILY relationship : The children , only the children have free excess to the father…

    Final word :"God is SPIRIT, and those who worship Him-( (come to Him)- must worship Him in spirit and truth.' These are words of Jesus: " Believe me …a time is coming, and is now here, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father seeks such people AS HIS WORSHIPERS. "(John 4:21-24)

  17. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Usually when I see that view I am not signed in. Or it could be threaded view that you may change at the top of the screen. The later a bit less likely.

  18. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    He changed after the bite. Immediately different. Knowledge of nakedness.
    What an awesome thought.
    Thanks. wink

  19. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Yes. The description of what women look for in men did sound familiar. I read about that study. Women on what types of mates they tend to seek. But in my community (which is where knowledge of ethnicity and culture are important) women are "bread winners" and heads of household. Just looking for something pretty to come home to. Lol
    Our men are locked up; gay; locked up; taken; just playing the field; or dead.
    The chicks are fighting for a piece of his time these days. Any ole piece will do.
    Women have babies to "keep" one who will not stay. And yes! Sex and/or sex appeal plays a huge part.

  20. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Disclaimer:
    Black women do have standards. Many of them wait and don't settle. Many are single still.

  21. profile image0
    Motown2Chitownposted 11 years ago

    This may just be the single most bizarre set of comments I've ever read in these forums.

  22. Oztinato profile image77
    Oztinatoposted 11 years ago

    I have just been reading over the posts.
    It is undeniable that hypocrisy should not be condoned in either theistic or atheists philosophy.
    It is hypocritical for one religion not to respect another.
    Likewise it is hypocritical for atheism not to respect their evolutionary links to ethics via religion.

    1. wilderness profile image76
      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Actually, it seems more to me that those " evolutionary links to ethics" are the teachings of the atheists, trying to raise the morality of the religions into something more civilized.

      1. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Well you could be wrong there as there is no actual evidence of that. All the early scientists were devoutly religious men.

        1. profile image51
          wayne92587posted 11 years agoin reply to this

          The goal of early science was to discover what, was on the mind of God.

    2. janesix profile image58
      janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Respect is something that is earned. Not many religions have done that for me personally. Or many, many other people.

      I tolerate them. As long as they don't cross certain lines, that is.

      People have valid reasons for not tolerating certain aspects of certain religions. As it should be.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Trust is earned. Respect is everyone's right. Right???
        "I tolerate them as long as they toe the line I draw everyday with my big red matker???" Lol
        Who did you say are you again??? smile

        1. janesix profile image58
          janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Respect: "a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements."

          Not in my book.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            b : to refrain from interfering with <pleaserespect their privacy> Merriam Webster
            See...in an effort to keep the congruence of conversation intact; one must remain aware of context.
            My definition more closely relates to the topic of discussion; see?
            You do not have to have high esteem or regard for anyone to "respect" them...

            1. janesix profile image58
              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Just a misunderstanding between the two of us, I don't think our actual opinions on the matter differ much. Just a word usage problem.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Just imagine...many of our words and thoughts of meaning fall victim to our culture, our education, our personal experience. We often know things only from our own multifaceted and unique perspective. Context is often missed from the person who types out a reply. The words of Jesus must definitely be somewhat hard to get at first.

        2. janesix profile image58
          janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Tolerance: "the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with."

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            So then one could say that I "tolerate" you??? Who, did you say, am I??? wink
            Thanks for "tolerating" me. It is appreciated to the max!

            1. janesix profile image58
              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I even kind of like you a little bit:)

              See, I'm not the horrible monster that I may appear to be:)

          2. Michael-Milec profile image62
            Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            ' tolerance' as a temporary fix living between two opinions, isn't in God's vocabulary, similarly as compromise man's acceptance for temporary solutions, subject to constant changes , short lived.

            1. janesix profile image58
              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              That sounds reasonable.

              However, I'm curious to how you know what's in God's vocabulary?

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Everyone knows. It is written.

                1. janesix profile image58
                  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Really? I don't.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    It is written that we will have to give an account for the words that we speak.
                    "You have not, because you ask not."

              2. Michael-Milec profile image62
                Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Easy, by reading His Word and wherever possible digging into "original" meaning not lost in translations.

                1. janesix profile image58
                  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  So you know Hebrew and Greek?

            2. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              We MUST remember that God never changes. We cannot be unfaithfully tossed to and fro by every new idea.
              Thanks! smile

              1. janesix profile image58
                janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                But people change. Are we supposed to keep outdated ideas?

                How do you know what God wants , thinks, feels anyway?

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  It is written.
                  We have instructions on how to successfully live this life. Though people change; it will always be wrong to kill, steal, and destroy says the Lord. Certain other things will ALWAYS be WRONG as well. We know what those things are when we read the instructions that he left for us.
                  Oh!!! But we CANNOT read the words with our red marker. We must use our EMPTY cup. Get it???

                  1. janesix profile image58
                    janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    I disagree. I think our sense of what's right and wrong come from within. A gift from God, but more like a compass that is always pointing up.

                    It's not always easy to determine though, and can be greatly influence by circumstance. Guidance is helpful, but only to a certain extent. We still have to determine what is the right thing to do, and that is relative. Some things are obvious in their wrongness or rightness, others not so much.

                    I don't think the Bible was written by God. Perhaps inspired, but the messages are obscured by the human writers, and their own personal faults and agendas, incorrect assumptions.

                    Wisdom is there, but it has to be sifted through, and still taken with a grain of salt.

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Computers were a new idea, the internet was a new idea, this forum was a new idea. Funny, how you seem to be using them extensively and unfettered after saying that. lol

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  New idea??? People have been finding faster ways of communication for eons. smile
                  I keep up with that. However, in matters of the heart/mind/spirit, I have one formula. I stand on that. No swaying; no bending; no sugars; no additives. Just "salt". And the salt was already provided. smile Jesus is the salt. His spirit changes its surroundings. If we have him; we change our surroundings. If we don't, we have "lost our savor" which isn't good.

                  1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    That must be very upsetting for those who would much rather avoid new ideas.

        3. janesix profile image58
          janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Who am I?

          I am an infinitesimal fragment of God, living this particular awareness, until my life energy is recycled into another being, until I return to my Creator.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Even God himself respects the rights of a man to choose how-so-ever he wishes.

            1. janesix profile image58
              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Maybe. I don't know the mind of God.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                See, Jesus. Learn of him. He has the mind of God.

      2. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Yes I agree religions need to do better.

  23. janesix profile image58
    janesixposted 11 years ago

    Examples:

    I tolerate Christianity, because I don't agree with most of it.

    I respect most of the teachings and values taught by Jesus, because they are admirable.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I'm just know he thanks you. smile
      Btw...what is admirable?  I mean, who decides what admirable is? Have you written a book on the do' and don'ts of admirable? How do we ensure admirability??? Are you the only QCI we have on the matter; or are there others?

      1. janesix profile image58
        janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I suppose what is admirable would be on a personal level. I haven't thought about that. I suppose some people admire things I see in a negative light. Like the accumulation of money. Some people call this "successful", I call it greed.

    2. lone77star profile image73
      lone77starposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Janesix, very interesting. Christianity of today has become corrupted by ego and divisiveness. I suspect that Jesus never wanted that to happen, though he knew it would. He talked about this corruption.

      I have a new book in the planning stages that digs into this subject -- the dilution of Christianity.

      1. janesix profile image58
        janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        There seems to be corruption in most religions, if not all. The seed of meaning is always nearly lost. But the seed in most of them is the same.

        1. Oztinato profile image77
          Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Its important not to make sweeping statements like "all religions are bad" as it is similar to racism where misinformed people say "all dark people are bad". You just can't tar everyone with the same brush.
          Better to say there are SOME theists and some atheists who are bad.

          1. janesix profile image58
            janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I didn't say any religions are bad. I said there is corruption in all of them. Neither did I say anything about theists or atheists.

            The SEED is the same for religions. The MEANING and the message are corrupted over time.

            The message can be found in all, but it has to be sifted through, and understood on a personal level through God's guidance.

          2. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            As well, it is important to not make sweeping statements like, "all religions have an equal share in the spirit" too. We must have the mind of Christ if we wish to follow him.

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              It is in keeping with the character of Divine Love to tolerate and respect the beliefs of others. Likewise, equality. Isn't that what Afr-Americans want? Isn't that what all races and cultures want? Equality? Even under man's law equality is mandatory. So under God's law equality is even more sacred.
              Cgenaea, our Real Faith (verb) should not feel challenged by the rights of others; only a believer's small faith (noun=set of rules) is challenged. The set of rules of a faith is small "f" faith. Divine Faith is the "F" faith.
              Don't allow yourself to feel spiritually challenged by tolerance and equality.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Please write out a list of all other religious beliefs Jesus endorsed/embraced please. I really need the challenge of which you speak.
                Take your time.

                1. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  When Jesus was alive Christianity did not yet exist. He was a practicing Jew.
                  He warmly welcomed all people of all religious persuasions into his sermons, including Romans, Jews, Samaritans and Edomities etc.
                  He made no claim he was going to limit His grace to one religion in particular or one particular Christian "future sect".
                  His sermon on the mount drew no religious distinctions but only appealed to decent human values of meekness, humbleness and charity
                  I feel like you are trying to pin Him down to one special sect (your own) which is remaining silent but becoming more obvious as we talk.
                  Are you a JW?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    "I do the will of my father, the one who sent me."
                    "If you love me, KEEP my commands."
                    He told the woman, "Sin no more." Now what is sin? But how can we know; with the bible being untrustworthy and all???

                  2. profile image0
                    SirDentposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Jesus said, "I am the Way the Truth and the Life.  No man comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6

                    Unless a person can acknowledge Jesus for who he really is, that person cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.  The Way has been made, not many ways. 

                    When He chose His disciples, He said, "Follow me."   When he healed people He said, "Sin no more."

                    He fed people because they were hungry, but this did not save them.

  24. lone77star profile image73
    lone77starposted 11 years ago

    Cgenaea, the first scripture I'd point out is 2 Corinthians 3:6. It warns us that the letter (literal) leads to death. Only the spirit of scripture leads to life.

    In other words, don't take the words of the Bible too literally. You'll miss the real message. Some is literal, yes, but some is metaphor and symbol meant to make you think and to dig with the Holy Spirit to find the True meaning.

    Just look at how Christ used difficult parables. He wasn't a literalist, though many biblical literalists claim that he was.

    The literal approach to Bible interpretation is easy, but Jesus told us that the path to salvation is narrow and difficult.

    Fact: None of us know God's full Truth.

    Implications: We need to remain humble and hungry at all times until we do know the full Truth, which might be forever.

    What gets in the way is ego. Jesus described this as "first" -- the attitude of needing to be first. Arrogant, know-it-all. Humility is the antidote to ego.

    There appear to have been 3 Adams in Genesis.
    1) Adam, the spiritual being in the Garden.
    2) Adam, the tribe (see Genesis 5:2, where it describes Adam as male and female and them.
    3) The eponymous leader of the Adam tribe, if there was such an individual.

    Man has a dual nature
    Genesis 1:26 tells us that man was created in the image and likeness of God, but He is not Homo sapiens. So, that means we are non-physical, spiritual and immortal sources of creation, for that is God's image and likeness.

    Genesis 2:7 tells us that man was created from the dust of the ground. This is chemicals -- DNA -- Homo sapiens.

    So, man is sleeping immortal spirit wrapped in Homo sapiens flesh. Genesis 6:3 emphasizes this.

    God doesn't care about these human bodies. After all, he trashed the lot of them during Noah's Flood so he could start all over again. Something had threatened God's purpose to rescue His immortal children.

    My new book, The Bible's Hidden Wisdom, God's Reason for Noah's Flood, talks about the Flood's target -- described in Genesis 6 as the "daughters of men" and located through science as a species which matches the description in Genesis 6 -- a species which disappeared at the new Flood date of 28,000 BC.

    There is still much more to learn. Humility and hunger to receive the answers is essential.

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Please tell me what comment you are replying to. I'm having a problem following your first sentence.

    2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
      EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      All of your threads so far are only promoting your books.

      Did you read the TOS where it says that is not allowed?

      1. janesix profile image58
        janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        +1

    3. Oztinato profile image77
      Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Amen to that: the spirit is the thing.

    4. profile image51
      wayne92587posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      No! God does not have feet.
      If you were able to look upon the feet of God it would be as though you had been made blind, for you would see NoThing.

      When the breath, the Immortal Spirit of God, was breathed into Man’s, he and she, Mankind’s nostril, it was the Immortal Spirit of God that became a Living Soul, that was made manifest; the Immortal Spirit of God alive in the Flesh Body of Man, he and she, Mankind; Mortal Man to walk the Earth having both a Mortal, Flesh Body and a Spiritual Body; the Spiritual Body, the Immortal Spirit of Man, he and she, Mankind created in the Image of the Immortal Spirit of God.

      Immortality used in reference to Man, He and She, Mankind, rather than the Individual Man, the individual Man, the Flesh Body being Mortal, Man’s Spiritual Body having  been created in the Image of the Immortal Spirit of God returns to God, NoThingness, Non-Existence.

      1. janesix profile image58
        janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Yep:)

  25. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Has anyone ever met with the CEO of a successful company that employed you???
    During your meeting, did you whip out your red marker to blot out the company rules that don't work for you; and show him/her YOUR plan for how you will run his/her organization from that day forward???
    *Keywords*: CEO of a successful company that employed you.

    1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
      EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, we should look carefully at your keywords. We can actually see and talk with a CEO, but we can't see or talk with your God. lol

      If I had the opportunity to do so, I certainly would pull out a red marker on Him.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I see your red markings all over the place wink and God does too.
        You cannot see him because it is clear that you do not want to. Proving the fact that he is not there seems most important to you to me. Am I right?

        1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
          EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Fragmented thinking is characteristic of schizophrenia. Externally, it can be observed in the way a person speaks. People with schizophrenia tend to have trouble concentrating and maintaining a train of thought. They may respond to queries with an unrelated answer, start sentences with one topic and end somewhere completely different, speak incoherently, or say illogical things.

          http://www.helpguide.org/mental/schizop … ymptom.htm

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yeah...thanks.

          2. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Religion is not classed as a symptom of mental illness.
            Aberrational  thinking is quite different.
            However, it could be argued that noted atheist ethicist Peter Singer could be classed as a sociopath/schizophrenic  (by law) for his views on "after birth abortion"/ legalizing infanticide of children; not to mention his personal fondness for Zoophilia). Those who do not protest this view and/or support it are also arguably potential  sociopaths.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              But God is NOT in it. He has one way. It's a little narrow path that has a little narrow gate. Only a few find it. Not everybody. There is one way to the father.
              Maybe I am arguing with one not interested in the full message of Jesus??? This is clear. Who/what do you represent?

              1. profile image0
                Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Man, you need to get a mirror.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I have one. And it is crystal clear. It sees down through muscles and bones.

            2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
              EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              But, mental illness has been shown to be closely related to religious zealotry.



              If you say so. But, Singer's arguments are not based on the bible as are the arguments from Christians who disagree with him.

  26. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Janesix. What is it that you take to be the words of God?

    1. janesix profile image58
      janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Not actual words. Just impressions through dreams, synchronicities, visions. What is a sign for one may not be a sign for another. However, I'm not sure if God plays an active role in this, or if we just become more open to the signs of God through an expansion of awareness. My feeling is that our awareness is expanded through a natural process when the time is right for each individual.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        He "speaks" to us in many ways. Daily life is guided by the spirit of the words he left for us. When we play with those words and give them new meanings, we miss. He will not tell us to kill steal lie or be otherwise sinful. It is written what he wants so that we do not get it twisted. When we are led away from the path, the spirit reminds us what he said. We still must decide to do or don't.
        When we debunk what he said, where is our correction? Inside??? James says no.

        1. janesix profile image58
          janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          If that were true, then why is the Bible so contradictory?

          I bet you could find a passage for just about anything in there. And a passage a few chapters a long will say the opposite.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Context is important. We have to know what he was talking about. The bible does not contradict itself. It speaks to all.

          2. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The contradictions are the editing of men for political motives. What is not Love based in the Bible (or any other scripture) can not be from God.

        2. Michael-Milec profile image62
          Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          That what is happening within the family, isn't known to outsiders, the Heavenly Father communicate with His children by the Holy Spirit they were brought into the relationship with. Jesus made it clear : having to reveal himself not to the world "If anyone loves me he will keep my word, and my Father will love him and we shall come to him and make our home with him."( (John 14:23) Before you ask, here is the answer, He is the same One God the Holy Spirit.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Michael...you're "singing" to the choir. wink
            I am aware of how the spirit of God works. Thanks for knowing and conveying.

            1. Michael-Milec profile image62
              Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              It meant to answer  JANESIX's "Not actual words.... " my apology for misplacing or ending out of my control.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                smile
                It happens to the very best of them...
                I know that you and I are connected.

          2. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That's right: and all religions have an equal share in the spirit.
            There is no "competition" between religions: if there is it is man made competition.

            1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
              EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              And, spirit is what, exactly? How do you share it?

              1. Michael-Milec profile image62
                Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                ' God is a spirit,'… or '"the Spirit is God'", a divine person, possessed of all divine perfections, as appears from his names, works ; God as a spirit, is immaterial, immortal, invisible, and an intelligent, willing, and active being; however differs from other spirits in that he is not created but an immense and infinite spirit,and an eternal one which has neither beginning nor end; he is therefore a spirit by way of eminency, as well as effectively,, he being the author and former of all spirits - whatever  excellence is in them, must be  ascribed  to God-YAHWEH- in the highest manner; and whatever is imperfect in them must be removed from him . One approaches him in spirit and truth and without being agreeable to his will, one is a stranger in confusion and misunderstanding.
                By the way, before you ask,  whenever you hear word 'love"- is the most popularly accepted description of invisible God, because GOD IS LOVE, while not everything thought 'love' - feelings, emotions and such isn't love at all.

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You are contradicting yourself. If something is immaterial and invisible, it is non-existent. Yet, you go on to say God is a person, an active being. People and active beings are not spirits, they are material and are visible. And, if something is immaterial and invisible, then there is no way you or anyone else could even conceive of it's existence.

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image62
                    Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    You are a spirit; I am a spirit- the real eternal being living in each  human body-visible - is a living soul and spirit- eternal. Many know  this, many believe and know ;  others , well exactly the same spirit soul an living in the body  for some reason asking for more proof that they exist and are here on this earth on temporary,  mission for a purpose by the Creator's appoint

                  2. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Other dimensions mathematically discovered by scientists are also "invisible". Numbers themselves are invisible.
                    Get it?

              2. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                When we say the "spirit of the law" we can begin to understand what spirit means. If we cruelly judge someone just by the "letter of the law" we have an inhumane (not quite human) mindset.
                Spirituality  is an esoteric inner feeling directly synonymous with Love and compassion. Spirituality  is beyond the lower animalistic  mind which is limited to self and temporary materialistic gains.

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  That is totally false, laws were made by humans, obviously, and were meant to be humane.

                  The "spirit of the law" still doesn't mean anything until you can explain 'spirit'.



                  Then, just call it love and compassion, there's no need to make up other words that have no meaning.



                  That still means nothing and you do nothing but add more confusion because you now have to explain the difference between those concepts.

                  Ever hear of Occams Razor?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    What part of; if you do not have the spirit of God within you, there is NO WAY to comprehend it, do you not understand?

                  2. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Well that's what I said: maybe its too easy!
                    The spirit is Love. Believe it...or not.

                  3. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    PS Occam 's razor? wasn't Occam a scientist monk?

              3. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                The spirit is divine Love. You share it by being compassionate to each other.

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  That isn't spirit, that is simple compassion. There is no need to make up words to other words, it only serves to create confusion. In this regard, spirit is a pointless word.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    You think NOTHING of Jesus???

                  2. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    I hate to break this to you but the beauty and uncomplicated nature of Divine Love is all there is to it.
                    Its as if its too just too simple to understand straight away. No complicated conflicting doctrines.

              4. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                encahplio
                Spirit is not a mathematical theorem (as yet!).
                It is compassion and Love that make us true humans. These phenomena are the spirit. If you need to wait for a math theorem to prove it to you, you might miss out.
                Have you read Kurt Godel's God theorem has now been proved? Does that help you to grasp Divine Love/Spirit?

                1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  No, they aren't spirit, they are emotions most of us have, they have evolved in us over millions of years.



                  A simple, honest explanation would suffice, thanks.

            2. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              That is not what Jesus taught. Christianity says, "There is one way to the father."
              One path.
              One faith.
              One God.

              1. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                If it excludes all others and condemns them to hell it is of course not from God but the inserted teachings of politically motivated men.
                Don't feel threatened if your small "f" faith (set of rules) feels challenged. Nothing can challenge the feeling of capital "F" Faith.
                Once again I have to repeat not to judge by the letter of the law (small "f" faith) but to judge by the spirit of the law (Capital "F" Faith).

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                  Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Interesting. You both claim to be using the spirit to judge what the meanings are - yet you both have a completely different set of meanings and both self righteously pronounce that your way of changing what the bible says is the correct way.

                  How come?

                  1. wilderness profile image76
                    wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    God (spirit) foments dissension by telling different people different things?  He likes to see people fight?

                  2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    LOL. Have we ever seen two believers agree with each other on everything they believe and claim is righteous?

                    You'll soon see one of them telling the other they are not a Christian.

                  3. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    There is nothing wrong in friendly mutual education. When people start hurting killing one another is the time to criticize.
                    Also, science shows that it is healthy to theorize and debate with logic: so why are you against this? aren't you a scientific personality?
                    I respect Cgenea's religion and faith. I like to try and teach other believers to be more tolerant of others beliefs that's all. I am trying to show her the difference between being attached to a set of rules vs attached to Faith itself. You should be happy about that!
                    If you analyze  what I am saying about mutual tolerance of faiths you will see it is quite important for humanity at this time in history.
                    Atheists too should be preaching tolerance and not stereotyping all religions.

                  4. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    This is just friendly education and sharing. similar to scientists who disagree on moot points.

  27. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Black people have equality already.  Some just don't know yet.

    1. Oztinato profile image77
      Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      OK we agree that equality is obviously the best thing: so why not equality between denominations and even religions? Because a small set of doctrines don't allow that? We need to let go of these small sets of one eyed doctrines, but keep a firm grasp on Love and capital letter Faith. These unimportant differences in doctrines are causing a lot of problems and opening religion up to attack by atheists.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Deviation from the words of Jesus is what opens to attack. Not strict adherence to what he said. When you say what HE said; you are covered. When you go to the university, you ADD their SMART slant; and the armor is lifted. We may not add little deviations. We are separated by doctrine. But Jesus' doctrine; ALL OF IT, leads unto the father.  ALL ELSE is sounding brass and tinkling cymbals.
        TRUTH... thats it...

        1. Oztinato profile image77
          Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I have already said it is not necessary for everyone to be complex or even highly educated about Faith.
          Some of us need to study and be complicated; others do not.
          Equality is not one of those complex thing to understand. The equality of religions and races is the same thing. Its about tolerance.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Even a fool can follow Jesus and not err. We do not need to complicate matters at all. We cannot lean to our own understanding of things.
            It seems that you often say things that work in opposition to what Jesus taught. And then you take that to mean that you are more advanced??? More learned???
            Jesus said, if you aint following me, you are on the wrong path. "I am the way." Pay strict attention to the word "I". All religions are NOT following Jesus. Now ifyour argument Iis "we don't need no stinkin' Jesus, we just need to be able to pick and choose which scriptures to reject" you are DEAD WRONG.
            Jesus gave no allowances to those who had different ideas than he. "I am the way"... to say different; is the way that leads to death.

  28. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Jesus says preach. His "followers" say don't??? How can that be?
    Oh! I guess the quotation marks tell the story.
    Truth...
    My sins are ever before me. So are yours before you.
    Jesus knew. He still said "tell it".
    I thank the father for the blessing of assurance.

  29. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Matthew 10:34“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
    Too many people are caramelizing the words of Jesus. He brings abundant LIFE. Not the way that leads unto death. He told us how to get abundant LIFE.
    God's children are soldiers equipped with armor. Not creampuffs looking for a grand ol time here on earth. He called us OUT of the world. He was NOT nor are we friends of the masses. The world hates him then and now. They "hate" me too. wink and I am eternally grateful for that assurance.

    1. Oztinato profile image77
      Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      See that bit right there about a sword: a person has put it in the Bible not God.
      Get it? Sword equals killing and hatred, therefore it is NOT from God. God does not stab and decapitate, people do.
      God is Love.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        God stabs and decapitates evil; self sufficiency; the knowledge and the wisdom that the world gives. The word stabs and incapacitates the flesh. God is spirit. We cannot understand the fullness of that until... but Jesus and all of what he said is the "law" now. We have a miraculously kept version of what he said here on earth. God did not leave us hanging. Yea o nay???

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
          Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I surely do love to see two religionists arguing over who understood the majick  book the best.

          1. janesix profile image58
            janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Why? Why is conflict something you "love to see"? Wouldn't you rather see people getting along?

            Scientists argue all the time over who is right and who is wrong in science. That's why there are different theories. I've watched their discussions. They get as emotional over their issues as theists do. We are all human.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Thank you for such a practical comment. The conflict over what Jesus meant is constant. We must know him to know what he meant. To know who knows truth takes an  ear to hear and the spirit of the Lord to guide. It is not majick. It is the largely misunderstood spirit.
              I bet that you could also call it personality as well. It is fully illustrated by biblical text. Jesus showed us the spirit of God.

              1. janesix profile image58
                janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Yes, there is constant conflict over these things.

                Some aren't guided by the spirit of God(or won't let themselves be guided) , and only want to make their own interpretations to fit their agenda, or make excuses, or push their ideas on people. I can usually tell who these people are after a bit of conversation.

                Still, we have to interpret, even when we are guided. But I think most of those who are listening to the spirit will agree on basing things, like the Golden Rule.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Exactly.
                  I was talking to my mom today about the fact that we all are guided by spirit (personality). The decision is based upon what personality one allows to dominate. The spirit of "knowledge" rules the forums here. Everyone's so proud of their worldly education. Don't KNOW a darn thing... wink

                  1. janesix profile image58
                    janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    I know very little about science/math and that kind of knowledge. I have a desire to know, but I doubt it has anything to do with actual spiritual knowledge. We are all guided if we choose to be. Some are guided through the Bible, some through the Koran or Vedas, some through every day life. It's all due to our interests and personal life. Gods shows us each in our own way.

                    Teresa of Avila wasn't educated(as far as I know), but in my opinion, she was guided internally, just through prayer. She is my favorite example of someone who was truly guided by God, all the way to the final enlightenment you can have in Earthly life.

            2. Righteous Atheist profile image58
              Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              When was the last time a scientist flew a plane into a  building over their theory. Dear me. sad

              I love to see it because it proves my argument that religion causes nothing but conflict. And yes - I would also love for it to go away. All the time we have people who insist they deciphered the majick book properly it will not. Hopefully the clear evidence that this belief causes conflict will help it go away.  Therefore I love to see the conflict so clearly - maybe some people will realize how ridiculous these beliefs are and start thinking instead of preaching nonsense.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Lean not unto your own thinking...

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                  Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I can understand why other people thinking would bother you. wink

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    But it does not bother me what other people think. I have no stake in their view. Truth is all that matters.

                2. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You mean that you need someone else to do your thinking FOR you?  Sad, if true, but not all of us are like that.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    We need our thinking to be aligned with the thinking of Jesus instead. Then we think right along with the will of the father.

          2. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I know...

    2. Oztinato profile image77
      Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If JC used an expression like sword or blood He was using it symbolically not literally. In other words a symbolic "sword" of righteousness or the "blood" (essence) of his teaching. This relates to what we agreed on regarding the fact that the Bible is made up of several literary devices such as metaphor, poetry, history, parable etc.
      To claim a sword refers to killing is taking a metaphor literally.

      1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
        EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Then, why can't everything in the bible be taken as symbolic, metaphor, parable, and not literal? God is symbolic, the resurrection is a metaphor, etc.

        1. janesix profile image58
          janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I think the entire thing has to be taken metaphorically. I know the different parts were written by different people, but even the "history" parts are metaphorical, from what I can tell from it.

        2. Oztinato profile image77
          Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Some parts of the Bible are still used today by archaeologists to identify places and events. Obviously there are also factual and historical elements to the Bible. This is the reaosn that formulating a standard set of rules (doctrines) can't apply and should not apply.
          The Bible does NOT claim to be a scientific theorem: it is a spiritual book. Sure there has been human tampering especially in the Old Testament; but the book has provided moral lessons and  esoteric teachings for millenniums.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            This thing about the tampering of the words of scripture blows me left and right smile
            We as humans were not there with Jesus. We were not there with Paul. We simply were not there. How on earth can we know that the minds of men did not sit down to manufacture the whole thing???
            How can we be knowledegable enough to know what GOES from scriprure and what actually belongs there...our OWN understanding???

            1. Dr Lamb profile image54
              Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              This would appear that you are now questioning the validity of the words that the men have written as being from of your God, but you spout about daily. Would not those men who sat down to write the words that make up the bible believe that they have the same "spirit" that you spout about daily? and those people were closet to the time that all of these events supposedly happened. So what makes your so-called "spirit" stronger now in a diluted time and place that the bible has been passed down and retold several times stronger or better than the original writers? Isn't such questioning of those words in direct opposition to "trusting in God and leaning not to your own understanding"?

              we'll save you a seat by the fire wink

              1. Michael-Milec profile image62
                Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Every one of us can say what we deside to and how we perceive - and we do that ; while the interpretation of the word won't be changed, because " God's word is alive and active. It is sharper  than any two-edged sword. It goes deep enough to divide soul from spirit, joints from martow. It judges the thoughts and intents of the mind. Nothing in all creation is invisible to God. Everything lies naked and exposed to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account."(Hebrew 4: 12-14) TNT . Those who are of God hear God's words (rhems); Jesus Christ , being sent of God , speaks exactly God's utterances, which  those who are of God understand  and those who are not do not understand.

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                  Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Let me get this straight - you are speaking for god - not yourself? Does god still hate homos and unbelievers?

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image62
                    Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Not exactly what I've said . Take your time and read for yourself  to avoid further  misconception .

                  2. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    God hates no one. He hates sin and the spirit that creates it. We are free to lose that wayward spirit and choose life. But we have better ideas... right???

                2. Dr Lamb profile image54
                  Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Okay, So Those who are of God hear God's words and Christ speaks God's utterances? Well, it is Genaea's contentions that the words don't matter. The Bible tell us what Jesus says But she is of the mind that the words in the bible don't matter enough to her to accurately quote them. She claims that "spirit is all you need.". So Which is it? Do the actual (not perceived) words in the Bible matter or not? Because your story is in conflict (no surprise there) with hers.

                  Tell you what, We'll save a seat for you too, just in case wink

                  1. Michael-Milec profile image62
                    Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Surprise, surprise! What authority do ( those of ""WE "" )  have saving seats and where you are sitting  thus so comfortably?!

                  2. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    I wonder why this tendency to misconceive Genaea... well, no I don't... wink

              2. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Never do I question the validity of scripture. It has been brought to my attention once again, that the bible is made up of stuff we just cannot use because of the flawed nature of man.
                I say that that view is falsity driven by the spirit of the adversary to try to trick people into believing that they must look within for truth. Jesus is the way. That's it... believers of something else are going the wrong way.

          2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
            EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Not really. The Bible has already been shown to be quite inaccurate when it comes to places and events.



            Nothing of any value that hasn't shown up elsewhere.



            No one said it is scientific theorem, the argument here is one YOU presented in that the Bible is metaphor and shouldn't be taken literally. Or, are you now going to cherry pick what you believe is literal and what is not? Isn't that hypocritical?



            Sorry, but morals preceded the bible, not the other way round.

      2. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        He kills flesh. We are supposed to kill our own; daily. smile
        Do you know what that means?

        1. profile image0
          SirDentposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Gal 5:24  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
          Gal 5:25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Uh...YEAH... wink
            I so appreciate the assistance of the spirit of the Lord as he assists in truth at EVERY turn.
            The reason why I serve...

            1. profile image0
              SirDentposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              2Co 12:9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                See!!! I told 'em that too wink
                The Lord does not turn away from the broken. He's got great tape!
                Also, the preacher must say what he said. To say different puts one on the path that everyone else is on. To LEAD one to that other path is bad.

        2. Oztinato profile image77
          Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          When taken as a symbol it means we learn to control human weaknesses (the flesh).
          See? another symbol. When different people take a symbol literally then we get problems. (see "snake handlers"!)

          1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
            Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Ah - so you don't need to learn ancient Greek after all. You just need to see the "symbolism."  When Jesus tells you to fear the one with the power to throw you into hell he doesn't mean fear huh? Just a symbol for "love" I suppose. wink

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Seen with the eyes of Divine Love there is no hell just a man made construct.

              1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Seen with the eyes of reality there is no such thing as Divine Love.  But - lets be blunt - without the stick and carrot - these religions make no sense at all. wink

                Don't you see that you claiming to be "Seeing With Divine Love," is the reason for the conflict?

                1. profile image0
                  Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  If their words create conflict for you but not for them...who is reasonable for the conflict? You, or them?

                  1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                    Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Sorry - that question didn't make sense, please try again. Perhaps after reading the argument between the 2 religionists? You religious people are all the same. Argue and fight amongst yourselves until it is time to turn on the unbelievers. Seems to be the only thing you can agree on. sad

                2. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I can only keep refering you to Kurt Godels recently proven God theorom to proveto you matematically that Divine Love exists: it has nothing at all to do with conflict.

                  1. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Ps excuse spelling
                    Amon phone

                  2. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                    Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    I think you are misunderstanding the words "proven," and "theorem." The words you are seeking are "opinion," and "argument." No offense, but deliberately misusing words in this fashion causes conflict. sad

                  3. janesix profile image58
                    janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    What is Divine Love?

                  4. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    And, we can only keep referring to the fact Godels theorem is a red herring, something you keep avoiding to understand.

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                That is a meaningless statement. Are you know saying something that you cannot even show exists has eyes?

          2. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            We just need to know the mind of Christ. I mean spirit of Christ. The spirit tells the faithful what it means to die daily. Any fool knows that we only actually are able to die (flatline) once. It only takes a level of reason to get that part.
            I feel you on the snake handling. It too was metaphor. No, we do not pick up slithering hissers; it's like tempting/testing the hand of God which Jesus TOLD us NOT to do. But didn't Jesus call a group of people a pit of snakes??? I will check. But I think we know there. Same with drinking a poison thing. No, fingernail polish remover is not a beverage. God's children know that. Testers and tempters (possibly snakes) are drinking poison every day to prove a point. What is that point? "I do not know the spirit of God."
            If scripture is falsified, we are all doomed. For we really cannot tell if "Love your neighbor as yourself" is not just ADDED to make the Quakers feel better. wink

  30. Kametre Adkinson profile image60
    Kametre Adkinsonposted 11 years ago

    In The Bible, yes, it says in "our" image....our is plural.  So I ask you who was being referred to as "our?"  Think about it.  And as Erykah Badu says in "On and On," (and I quote) "if we are made in His image then call us by our names." The "likeness" is the image of God/The Most High/The Creator....so what does that make you?

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well, I think we are people that have one God.
      "Our" seems like God and Jesus. But he had angels then. So maybe our "heavenly" immortal image and/or likeness was the meaning.

      1. Kametre Adkinson profile image60
        Kametre Adkinsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Yes. There is only one Creator.  I guess what one's image is depends on how that view who God is....  I believe in a Higher Being, always, but I also know that God gave me a mind of my own to understand His knowledge...The Bible even says that everyone will have their own interpretation of the reading, the problem is that many individuals feel that their interpretation is the correct one.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          We have had that conversation before. There are many words in the bible. We cannot pick a phrase and run. We have to get to know the spirit of the Lord by listening to all of what he has presented. Different interpretations never cloud truth. He knows what was said and meant. The words of the bible reflect the spirit of God in a collective way. He is multifaceted consistently so. He does not deal with us all the same. But I wonder what he thinks of those who deny his spirit.
          No wait; I know. That is written too.

          1. Kametre Adkinson profile image60
            Kametre Adkinsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I get what your saying, I definitely believe in The Holy Spirit.  But I don't do religion...it is completely man-made.  The Bible was written by a council of men who decided to give their interpretation of what they felt people should believe when it comes to God....and I know God gave me the power to know better than that.  I have done so much history on The Bible and how it came into existence.  I do believe in stories of Jesus, God, and the power of God in my life...but I also know that conspiracies were put into place, books were denied to be placed in The Bible, and a WHOLE lot of truth was kept from us due to deception of man.  For me, I can't go by MANS interpretation of God, because anything that man is involved in is going to have flaws, through and through, and I know the Holy Spirit has none.  So they can keep religion, myself and God will always have a relationship, talk to Him everyday, but I refuse to let a middleman distort our relationship.

            1. Kametre Adkinson profile image60
              Kametre Adkinsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I have enjoyed your posts.....I live in Illinois as well...a small town called Herrin, right outside of Carbondale (SIU).

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Far from me, South Chicago. smile
                Never even heard of Herrin.
                Nice to meet you.

            2. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Without the spirit of the words that he left already; there is no way to check that you are dealing with the correct spirit in my opinion. The reproof is necessary.
              How do we know what God sounds like, if we dont know what he sounds like???

              1. Kametre Adkinson profile image60
                Kametre Adkinsonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Faith. A book is not the spirit of the words, spirit is spirit.  It will speak to you in ways beyond any book that man has made. The correct spirit is the one that speaks to your heart, soul, and spirit.  After knowing the history of the Bible, and the truth of it's author's (including the ridiculous life of King James), I let God speak to me one on one:)
                I used to live in Chicago as well, stayed out west on Warren and Sacramento before moving to Markham, my lil sister still lives in Markham. 
                nice chattin...smile

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Yeah, Markham I know. smile used to live there myself.
                  And just so you know, no one speaks to our hearts better than we ourselves. There is a foolproof way of insuring that we know the voice of God from our own. It is written.
                  If man tells me, "God told me to kill this irritating jerk who cut him off on the expressway, I know that he is a liar. God does not speak that way. Jesus came. He showed and told us the heart of God.
                  God used wife-stealing David, Fire breathing Peter, and the despicable Matthew. For sure he may use King James' "sweet" self to get his points across. smile
                  The words were written and preserved for thousands of years for a reason.
                  We needed to know Jesus.

          2. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Unfortunately "picking a phrase and running" are exactly how doctrinal differences occur.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Yes. And it seems the word you have chosen is faith. We must take all the words to know the spirit of God.

            2. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              No I am not basing a doctrine on it and condemning all others to hell for not believing it.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Right! That is what Jesus did. "He who is not for me is against." "If your faith is not better than (the teachers) you will ALSO not make it into the kingdom of heaven."
                You are doing something different than Jesus did. And Christians (those who do the will of his/my father) are not to do or say differently than Jesus. HE is our example. WAIT!!! can we even trust that he was real or a doer of anything??? You know some men was touching the bible and added all kinds of BS. Oops, I mean they went to SCHOOL got BS degrees to understand the BS they came up with. You got your BS???

                1. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  eer..are you swearing online as a Christian?
                  I have rwpeatedly stated a person does not to be complex just loving. And you are swearing at me?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Errrr...are you claiming to be a Christian as you say things totally opposite from the way Jesus taught (something WAY worse than the term BS)???

                2. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I am defending gods love.
                  I am not criticizing your Faith just your little set of rules.
                  Are you a JW?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Not MY little set; Jesus gave the rules that I speak of.
                    JW is not my sect. I cannot claim one, though the COGIC and Baptist faiths are my background. I found that God is not in the church way more than he is. I don't bother. (I hope my mom's not listening.) smile

                    And you are NOT defending the love of GOD. You defend what MAN "loves" forgetting that MAN does not know love without God.  They cannot know God without knowing his son. Again not MY rules.

  31. Kametre Adkinson profile image60
    Kametre Adkinsonposted 11 years ago

    smile

  32. profile image0
    SirDentposted 11 years ago

    Rom_10:14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

  33. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    If God be for you; he is more than the world against you. smile
    He asked that we tell of his goodness. We have no right to keep silent when we see the injustice of brains taking over and trying to compensate for spirit with "knowledge" of the age of the earth; or the number of people going to paradise when Christ returns; or the big and little f's of faith.
    The Lord desires that we serve him in spirit and in truth. What Jesus said is the only real truth I know. I will be saying THAT until they roll me away. smile

    1. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      "the injustice of brains taking over and trying to compensate for spirit with "knowledge" of the age of the earth"

      Is your argument for God that we should all remain ignorant as God intended?

      1. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Some people are capable of being complex and others aren't. It is not necessary to be complex. There should democratic ways for all people of all different abilities to understand all things.

  34. Jerami profile image59
    Jeramiposted 11 years ago

    This is a legitimate question Not a challenge.
    But a basic, basic question. I woke up this morning with this on my mind.
    The First commandment says to put no other Gods before Jehovah.
    Are we putting Jesus before Jehovah when we say we can't get to the father unless we first go to Jesus?
    Isn't this putting Jesus first ?  before ?   
    Does God not hear me unless I say In Jesus's name Amen!

    Or can I simply keep telling myself that Jesus is the word of God and we can't get to god except through the word of God
    It seems as though some Christians  see Jesus as a God which We have to go through in order to reach the ultimate our goal?
    To say Jesus and Jehovah are one and the same seems to be a contradiction when we say Jesus is the Son of God.    Do we put the son before the father?
    If I send my son out as my ambassador and he tells someone, "when I tell you these things it as if My father says them to you"  Can the son bridal the father?
    I do believe in the God of the bible. And that Jesus is the Messiah
    But I am confused when I hear what many Christians say they see when they read the same scripture as I. 
    Going to bed now ...  Will be looking forward to seeing a good answer to my question in the AM.  Thanks in advance.

    1. janesix profile image58
      janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus will show you the way Jerami. You already know this. You don't need to worry anymore.

      1. Jerami profile image59
        Jeramiposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I appreciate being reminded of that Thanks. 
        It was kinda like when we keep hearing a song in our head.
        Guess i had to sing it to get it out of my head.

        1. janesix profile image58
          janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I'm not even sure why I wrote that. It kind of just felt like the right thing to say. (Because, you know I'm not a Christian). I was feeling very close to God last night when I wrote that.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Niiiiice! Right??? smile

            1. janesix profile image58
              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, I love feeling close to God. I used to feel indifferent, or even somewhat antagonistic towards him, but I have been feeling a lot of love lately.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I'm all goose-pimply. smile  Enjoy...

        2. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          It will be sung again. wink ...seems to not want to let you go...

    2. Oztinato profile image77
      Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Are you a JW?
      Dont forget a lot of the OT was fulfilled by JC.
      Also the word Jehova cant be written or pronounced. The correct meaning for Jehova is God so the meaning is more important than the letters.

      1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
        EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        But, of course, according to you, that is just a metaphor and cannot be taken literally, right?

        1. Oztinato profile image77
          Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          No. You are misconstruing. There
          are many symbols but also hints of historical facts and many actual facts; also parables, poetry,man made constructs, genealogy, law etc etc etc

          1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
            EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            So what? You are misconstruing what is contained in those books, in that you believe some things literally and other things not. How does that work?

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Firstly you just admitted you know you are deliberatley misconstruing.
              I am clarifying and teaching.

              1. profile image0
                Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                There's the problem. This is a discussion forum. Those of you here to teach aren't in a position to do so. No one has asked to be taught. Share your opinion, by all means. We will determine its value. But, it holds no authority and will be given no more consideration than any other opinion.

                Honestly, if you seek to teach, write a hub.

                1. Dr Lamb profile image54
                  Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Nicely put Emile.

                2. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  emile
                  you are avoiding my point: I am not deliberately misconstruing as enchaphlio has admitted he is doing ( for what purpose?)
                  I have no desire to "start a Hub": there are already thousands of them. It is my free will to join other Hubs. Both atheists and theists believe in free will so you should accept that.

                  1. profile image0
                    Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    I'm not avoiding your point. I'm pointing out the flaws in your approach. I don't have any problem with the 'God is love' stance you appear to have. I do have a problem with this belief that God is somehow universally provable, therefore all must agree; or be deemed wrong.

                    You can't prove God. You can't prove no God. That's all the fact we have on the topic. Any other claim of fact is grasping. So, you can't teach. You can only share an opinion.

              2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Here is Godel's theorem, please clarify and teach:

                http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/a/b/4/ab47f643c7918fda58089c7f5129a183.png

                1. Dr Lamb profile image54
                  Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  With the x being God of course.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    I thought G was God... smile seemed logical-er.

                2. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Clearly proof of something.
                  But thank God we dont have to know math to know him.

                  1. janesix profile image58
                    janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    That's true. It helps some of us find God though. I think God uses whatever WE will take for proof that he exists.

                3. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Definition 1: x is God-like if and only if x has as essential properties those and only those properties which are positive
                  Definition 2: A is an essence of x if and only if for every property B, x has B necessarily if and only if A entails B
                  Definition 3: x necessarily exists if and only if every essence of x is necessarily exemplified
                  Axiom 1: Any property entailed by—i.e., strictly implied by—a positive property is positive
                  Axiom 2: If a property is positive, then its negation is not positive
                  Axiom 3: The property of being God-like is positive
                  Axiom 4: If a property is positive, then it is necessarily positive
                  Axiom 5: Necessary existence is a positive property

                  Axiom 1 assumes that it is possible to single out positive properties from among all properties. Gödel comments that "Positive means positive in the moral aesthetic sense (independently of the accidental structure of the world)... It may also mean pure attribution as opposed to privation (or containing privation)." (Gödel 1995). Axioms 2, 3 and 4 can be summarized by saying that positive properties form a principal ultrafilter.

                  From these axioms and definitions and a few other axioms from modal logic, the following theorems can be proved:
                  Theorem 1: If a property is positive, then it is consistent, i.e., possibly exemplified.
                  Theorem 2: The property of being God-like is consistent.
                  Theorem 3: If something is God-like, then the property of being God-like is an essence of that thing.
                  Theorem 4: Necessarily, the property of being God-like is exemplified.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Seems like your God approach is one-sided too!!! wink only the highly complex are this technical.
                    On the path that Jesus laid, a fool, will not err. Now, I'm no fool (though I know you and others disregard) but not even I would be able to know Jesus or God if presented this way.
                    You explained the process, I think, and every word glazed over. I make no bones about it. Im just glad that the Father does not require this here knowledge. We have so many graces on HIS PATH. smile

                  2. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Seems like your God approach is one-sided too!!! wink only the highly complex are this technical.
                    On the path that Jesus laid, a fool, will not err. Now, I'm no fool (though I know you and others disregard) but not even I would be able to know Jesus or God if presented this way.
                    You explained the process, I think, and every word glazed over. I make no bones about it. Im just glad that the Father does not require this here knowledge. We have so many graces on HIS PATH. smile

                  3. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                    EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Anyone can copy/paste that from a website, you're supposed to clarify and teach us, which you haven't done. Of course, it's pretty obvious you really have no idea what Goedel's theorem is all about, but I'm sure you'll just dishonestly keep telling people to refer to it as if you did. lol

    3. profile image0
      Deepes Mindposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      No. When Christ was baptized,  God spoke saying "This is my beloved son in whom I am pleased. We were told to listen to Jesus by the father.  So that's not putting Christ before God.

    4. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Personally, Jesus is the way to the father. He is AS the father not the father. His way, which is fully illustrated is the way we must have to be able to get to the father. As the sent firstborn, his sacrifice is also something in which faith must be placed. Jesus let us know who God is. He let us know that God is different from but the same as.
      Ever see Malcolm X (the Denzel/Spike Lee movie)? At the end, many faces and voices were seperately shown; and for each, their line was, "I am Malcolm X."
      They had no idea that they had been reincarnations; nor did their birth certificates say, Malcolm X. Get it???
      Also, Husband and wife are biblically spoken of as "one".
      God is the father. And Jesus shows us how to get to him.

    5. Michael-Milec profile image62
      Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Jerami, please disregard what many Christians say, what I say, what he says, she says, it says they " says "... Go to the Word and read what the Spirit  says about the Messiah : " and he will be called Wonderful counselor, mighty God, everlasting Father , Prince of Peace..." ( Isa. 9: 6.7,)  O, one more - the "EMMANUEL "- God with us. Take a moment or two , meditate, think : Jesus from Nazareth is the closes " thing "  we will ever see the Father in visible-" "human," bodyly-  image- form.( I'm running out of words) . When my young son asked me how do I know , my answer is  by faith. I know because I believe and if I do not know yet,  I'll continue to believe until  I'll know sooner or later.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        It has been gone over and over for a long time. It will not be understood without a "yes" from the heart. It can only be mishandled by the unbeliever. They are looking for clues to confirm suspicions. They are found. God confounds the wise with dumb stuff.
        "Seek and you will find; knock, and the door will be opened."  It matters what you are seeking when you knock. "A theif enters through the window." You gotta use the door.

  35. Jerami profile image59
    Jeramiposted 11 years ago

    Just wanta thank everyone for their answers/comments.
    The question (To me) seems like the answer would be ; Not yes and Not no.  Just something to think about for a minute.   
    File away and move on.   
      I think that what happened in the story about what happened in the story of the story of Babble is somehow intertwined in the worlds religious institutions.  The differences in theologies are somehow necessary or the Lord wouldn't have allowed them to continue over the centuries. Maybe allowed isn't the right word.
    Maybe condoned beforehand is appropriate?

    I think most people go through life living a Godly life, living a full life while not being overly involved or distracted by others peoples doctrines of faith or lack there of.
       Whatever our doctrine of faith is, we should try to be true to it and don't be a hypocrite with it.  It seems like whenever we start judging another, we immediately sit at the defendants table whether we know it or not.
      The only judgments which we are qualified to make is whether we will enjoy ourselves spending time with that person or not. I know I wouldn't want to spend much time with a ballerina if ballet is all we are going to talk about for three days. And the Ballerina has the right to judge me to the degree that she/he wouldn't want to spend three days talking to me about football or biblical prophesy etc.
      enough rambling.  sleep tight Yawl.

    1. Oztinato profile image77
      Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well put and refreshing.

  36. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Entertaining... smile
    For the record, I am not mentally unstable!!! (On Thursdays wink )
    I have a firm grasp on reality. It's just that, because of my faith, my reality has been different.
    God is real to me. Nothing anyone says outweighs that FACT. wink
    Call me whatever adjective; label my mind; kick me out of the conversation...
    I am fully secure in Jesus alone.
    The truth of scripture STANDS without me.  All have an invitation to the kingdom of God. Accept or don't...orrrrr, mock it til the sky opens up to a bright light shining in the form of the Son; who will reign forever more. (After the judgment)

    1. Dr Lamb profile image54
      Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      So you have a firm grasp of what reality is, but your faith won't let you look at it.

    2. Righteous Atheist profile image58
      Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I understand that nothing anyone says will change your mind. There is only one reality, and there doesn't seem to be any truth in your scripture. It is becoming pretty clear that Jesus did not even exist. Until recently anyone who questioned that was reviled, but nowadays actual truths are emerging. One of which is that there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus was a real person. The enslavement and Exodus never happened either. Sorry. Reality is like that. sad

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        If there be but one reality (and i'm glad you agree) then you are REALLY in for a rude awakening. Sorry, but the real reality is like THAT; you just cannot access it. I feel hope that things will change though. Hopefully before the trumpet...

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
          Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Interesting how good that seems to make you feel. Those unbelievers will get what for because they don't believe the stuff you believe huh? How very Christian of you. wink REALLY in for a rude awakening? lol

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Please say this one more time using standard English. I'd love to respond; I just dont get it.

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
              Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Of course you don't. That is because you refuse to use your own understanding. I can try again using smaller words if you wish.

              Interesting.
              You seem happy at the thought of me being judged and punished when your Sky Daddy returns to punish those who refuse to believe as you do.
              REALLY in for s rude awakening huh? lol
              This is very Christ-like of you.
              Sorry you don't understand why that puts me off of your religion.
              Thanks for reminding me why I first rejected it.
              Jesus must be very proud of you. wink

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                At the very least, I am not responsible for your rejection. And I am happy about that. As for your everlasting fire; I really believe the Lord will save you. But still your choice. Just ask...

              2. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I can understand why agnostics (formerly know as atheists until Godel's proof) are skeptical of the contradictions in religions and I have very clearly pointed out the reasons for this flaw in this hub.
                However, that said, why are agnostics/'atheists" also practicing intolerance of religion and stereotyping all religions if they can see the theists doing it?? This behavior of the "new agnostics" (formerly new atheists) is hypocritical and not scientific.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Two cannot walk TOGETHER lest they be agreed. - Jesus

  37. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    No, YOUR faith won't let YOU look at it. wink

    1. Dr Lamb profile image54
      Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You're still not understanding. I'd love to find out that a heaven exists so logic and facts and evidence could convince me God exists. It's something I want and was difficult to let go. Your subconscious has decided for you that God exists, I used logic, facts and evidence to under the God delusion. I'm not happy with my brain lying to me. If you are good with it then that okay, but understand that not everyone is like you.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        You're wrong Sir. Your brain is ill-equipped. It likes what it sees. It has fooled itself into faith that that's all there is. Stuff happens all in and around your head without your cognizance. Faith that if I cannot see it, it does not exist is kinda weird. But if your boat is floating...there's NOTHING that God will do. He says, "COME TO ME..."

        1. Dr Lamb profile image54
          Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          So I'm purposely missing something that allows me to be comforted by the illusion of death because? Notice how that make no sense?

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Comforted by the illusion of death???
            Is THAT what all the fuss is about??? Death?
            Well we all do it. smile belief in God or no...
            You scared???

      2. Michael-Milec profile image62
        Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        We live. We live because HE is risen,
        We live to worship Him....
        It's whole world difference between existing and living ...

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
          Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Your god waited 13.8 billion years just to majick us into existence to worship HIM? I wonder if you realize how silly that is? lol

          1. Michael-Milec profile image62
            Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Who is " majick" you ? To magic  spells differently . And  if you'll create more silliness, you'll be wondering even more...

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Majick is one of the favored slices of mockery that the world has chosen for the holy spirit. It's only temporary. smile

            2. Righteous Atheist profile image58
              Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              So - how come god waited 13.8 billion years to majick us up?

      3. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Try googling Kurt Godels recently proven God theorem and you will find out Gods existence has been proven by math.

        1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
          Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          This is possibly the most ridiculous thing you have said. 1+1=god? lol

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It's 1X1... smile

            1. janesix profile image58
              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              1+1=ONE

              smile

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Nice.

          2. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Righteous Atheist (or now correctly Righteous New Agnostic)
            Was it you or encehpalio that admitted to deliberately misconstruing?
            You claim to be a new agnostic (formerly new atheist until Godel's theorem)  rationalist but you won't knowledge a new theorem as it is "stupid"??

            1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
              Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Sweetie - are you talking about Godel's ontological proof? A poorly constructed (IMNSHO) attempt at a logical argument that an Invisible Super Being must exist? If you are - you are sorely mistaken that this constitutes scientific proof that your Sky Daddy exists. I suggest you go check the meaning of the words you are using. Logically - a god cannot exist. Please don't bother copy pasting any more "proof." lol

              1. janesix profile image58
                janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I think you're right that logically a God can't exist. I don't think anything can exist, logically. Why should anything exist? It seems to make more sense that nothing would exist at all. Takes care of the cause and effect problem, the turtles all the way down problem.

                But we're here. Why, I don't get it.

                1. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Please see below regarding the quite logical principle of necessity in Godels theory which finally ends the "which came first chicken and egg" argument that science without god just cannot answer. Its boring and annoying when they keep pushing the ol big bang further and further back when you just hit the same wall. So far only the god theorem answers that mystery.

              2. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                You are suffering from culture shock. Its natural to be in denial. Have a cup of tea keep warm and absorb your new agnostic status slowly. Try slow deep breathingas well. My best wishes to you. Relax you will get over it eventually.

                1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                  Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Guess I am suffering from culture shock. I tend to be honest and truthful myself which I am gathering is not popular amongst religious folk. But I sort of already knew that. I don't blame you. You are incapable of determining morals so.......

                  1. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Well if you stop trying to run Cgenea ragged with constant deliberate misconstruing we might all get along better.
                    Please see my comments about Godels point about "necessity" in his correct line of reasoning. Even Hawking changed his view very quickly about "nothing before the big bang".
                    There is necessarily something before all the big bangs and before all time: a perfect factor.

        2. Dr Lamb profile image54
          Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I believe I read about that and about Godel a while back. If I'm not mistaken he started out by saying x=God. Even many Catholic theologians rejected it. I also seem to remember he attempted to prove that there are positive properties and then say the positive properties were God.

          1. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            As atheists pride themselves on being scientific, you should accept the inevitable and now admit that mathematically speaking "atheism" as we know it no longer exists (not God).
            It is now more scientific to believe in God than in atheism.
            Former atheists are now ALL technically agnostics. Welcome!

            1. Dr Lamb profile image54
              Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              "Christoph Benzmüller and Bruno Woltzenlogel Paleo, formalizing this theorem isn’t about proving Gods existence, but is instead focused on what can be achieved with modern computers."

              1. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Yes yes we all know the atheist slant on the proof: denial evasion culture shock and hypocrisy. If you want to play politics with science go ahead. My suggestion to you is to have some hot tea, keep warm and do some deep breathing. Sooner or later you
                will overcome the denial factor and quietly accept the inevitable. It might help not putting yourself on the same level as Godel and accept that he was one of the greatest minds the planet has produced. Try camomile tea as it can relax.

                1. Dr Lamb profile image54
                  Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Were Christoph Benzmüller and Bruno Woltzenlogel Paleo atheists?

                  I do agree that Godel was a great mathematician, but he was no Steven Hawking, who concluded that no God could have created the universe because without time he would not have had the time to create it.

                  But nice try.

                  1. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Hawking is an atheist
                    and interested in media hype like Dawkins but I bet he would have a high opinion of Godel. In wiki Godel is classed as the historical equivalent of a Plato.
                    I think we should wait
                    wait and see.
                    Einstein also believed in an (impersonal) god concept and was a friend of Godel.

                  2. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Also , throw away tv lines about time are not theorems but hawkings way of trying to get his concepts across.
                    We who know God have no trouble conceptualising a pre creation timeless state with God quite intact and beyond time. Ancient Hindus see time as just another one of Gods creations. The idea of Godels "perfect" is something that exists before the big bang and exists now and the future simultaneously totally unchanging. In other words a "necessity" as science keeps forgetting about before the big bangs.

          2. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Please follow the instructions above. Denial is a difficult mental attitude to get over. I forgive you.

            1. profile image0
              Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Are you playing the part of God now? His opinion is offensive? So warrants such a statement?

              Your belief in who we are does not equate to fact. Attempting to categorize, so you can rationalize, limits your ability to see reality clearly.

              1. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I approve of ethical atheism.
                Deliberate misconstruing, scientific hypocrisy, and weak ethics are not symptoms of quality atheist thought. Its just trolling not real debate or
                mutual education. Its an atheist feeding frenzy in a bible study. Its cheap shots etc.

  38. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Fraidy cat...

  39. Dr Lamb profile image54
    Dr Lambposted 11 years ago

    I rest my case. Are you comforted by your beliefs?

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Duh...what'cha restin'??? My comfort? Fyi...yes, I am DAILY comforted by my faith in God.

      1. Dr Lamb profile image54
        Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        That's what I've been saying. You've invented your God that comforts and allows you to continue to do as you please. There is no way you would give that up for reality.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          That was a horribly false statement. And I know from whence it came wink
          Unfortunately though, we do have different realities. Mine's takes a great deal of faith. And yours does too.
          Ever been to the science office to check their testing thingies???

        2. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Now who calls you the expert on what reality is? You were scared to tell me if the tree made a sound if you weren't there to hear it. smile
          I say you are the one who cannot find reality. You are totally cut-off from an entire realm...
          I know ya like it like dat; but...

        3. Oztinato profile image77
          Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Dr Lamb
          you are now unable to use this line of argument as God has been proven by Math to exist!
          Hence there must be a personal, irrational. emotive reason for your clinging to now defunct atheism.

          1. wilderness profile image76
            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Someone has fed you a line and you took it hard.

            God cannot be proven to exist, by math or anything else.  Unless existing in your own imagination counts...

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              All I can suggest is you read about Godel and man up and accept the scientific proof. It might hurt for a while but if you bite the bullet you will get used to it.
              Its real. Time to be honest wilderness. You say youre a scientist so nows your chance.

              1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Man up? lol No wonder your beliefs cause so many conflicts. There is no scientific proof. There is not even a "God theorem." Shocking. sad

                1. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You obviously dont understand the concept of necessity in the theorem.
                  I have explained it above these last few comments.
                  Dont you get tired of atheist sciences failure to explain what was before the big bang/s? Cant you see the math "necessity" for that?

                  1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                    Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    There was no before. Sorry you are incapable of understanding that. It must be very frustrating for you. Why not fill the blanks in with "goddunit,"? Having done that - I suggest closing your ears to reason and attacking anyone who doesn't believe you. Thank goodness you are no longer allowed to burn atheists at the stake huh? wink

          2. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Lean not unto your own math...in all thy ways; acknowledge HIM and HE will direct you. Not Gobble...

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Cgenea
              I am starting to know you. You dont have the complexity to understand certain things.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Exactly. smile you REPEAT my words well...
                Are you JW?

            2. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Dont get me wrong as I am NOT saying you need to be complex. For the tenth time I say complexity is not necessary.
              Godel proves in a complicated way what humble simple belivers just know: that God exists.
              I am on your side but you cant see it.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                As humbly and "simply" as I can; I must say that on MY side, you're not. We speak nothing alike.  You say a lot that is in total opposition to what Jesus taught and try to put a Jesus approved sticker on it.(because of your complex SEARCH for one who "has" your faith???)

                1. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I am on your side.
                  Haven't I got the atheist feeding frenzy off your back?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    The feeding frenzy cannot go away. Thanks anyway.
                    We wrestle not against flesh and blood; but spirit. The only protection from that is in the word of God. smile
                    Which, again, you just do not seem to agree with.
                    I do not mean that offensively, I am only going by the way you seem to want to wrap all religious thought into one HUGE package. It goes against what Jesus taught. Your spirit is not like Christ to me. You say "other" things. Jesus has one way. We must meet him THERE.

  40. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Yes! Remember Paul on the road??? wink

  41. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    The preeminence of Jesus was God the father and his will. He did not come to save anyone with no faith in him as first-born.
    I feel that you may assume that to be an UNloving act; but we aint got to YOUR will yet. wink

  42. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Oh!!! FAITH IS evidence.
    Did you do any bible reading during your studies???
    If so, have you seen ANY of YOUR current lectures there?

  43. profile image58
    cheryl3leeposted 11 years ago

    God is a divinity.  He is a Divine Being.  The reference to image and likeness I believe refers to the time He spent in an image and likeness as Jesus, The Son of God with us while He was saving us.  As humans we do not and cannot comprehend a divine being because we are human beings and we are flawed because of that and limited because of that.
    The consequence of Adam's original sin was "knowledge",  The "Tree of Life"  was the good, bad and ugly of life and the knowledge of such.  Prior to Adam's sin there was no need for that knowledge...it was paradise.  For that to have continued it took absolute trust, faith and obedience in God.  Adam failed and so as the bible says...."his eyes were opened".
    There is a famous work called "Foot Prints" and it symbolically refers to being carried by God in hard times and it is depicted by a set of foot prints in the sand, symbolically God's foot prints...This work is in an "image and likeness" to provide a "picture" if you will of faith and trust in God and the promise of salvation. in essence we can't believe without faith.
    These are my thoughts.

    guardian2451

    1. janesix profile image58
      janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Not.

      The Tree of Life is the Tree of Life.

      The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil isn't a "Tree Of Knowledge" , or the Tree of Life.

      1. profile image58
        cheryl3leeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Sorry...
        I meant the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil,  I thought is was referred to as the Tree of Knowledge.  As I read what I wrote I can see that I did word it wrong...what I should have expressed is that eating of it meant death as opposed to life as Adam knew it.
        My apologies

        1. janesix profile image58
          janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          It bothers me because people tend to misuse that phrase in order to say God didn't want us to have knowledge.

          The garden of Eden is a metaphor, and it has true meaning. And it's not about denying knowledge. It's a spiritual meaning, in my opinion.

          It' about duality, and separation from God.

          1. profile image58
            cheryl3leeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That was not my intention whatsoever and I apologize if that is what came across.  I am only writing my thoughts and I did mean most of what I wrote I thought what I wrote would be understood as metaphoric.  I know Eden has true meaning and spiritual.  I guess I am concerned and confused as to how I came across as not understanding that Eden has true meaning and it is spiritual meaning though.
            I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else.

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              You did not offend me at all.
              There is nothing wrong in seeing metaphorical meanings in genesis as it is largely metaphor and symbol.

          2. profile image58
            cheryl3leeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That was not my intention whatsoever and I apologize if that is what came across.  I am only writing my thoughts and I did mean most of what I wrote I thought what I wrote would be understood as metaphoric.  I know Eden has true meaning and spiritual.  I guess I am concerned and confused as to how I came across as not understanding that Eden has true meaning and it is spiritual meaning though.
            I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else.

            1. profile image58
              cheryl3leeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I am discouraged and I am not sure I should have entered into this discussion at all.  It seems like what came across was insulting and stupid in fact and I can't seed how.

            2. janesix profile image58
              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Don't be sorry, I wasn't being very nice at all. Just interjecting my opinion. You didn't offend me at all. I apologize to you.

              1. profile image58
                cheryl3leeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Thank you for that.  It means a lot to me.  I was really feeling inept and stupid.  I was also anxious because I thought that if I came across as stupid and insulting and that I should change my whole writing plans. 
                Thank you.

          3. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            To me, if the garden was metaphor; where did the two people live? Were there two people? Or do you consider their story to be also metaphoric?

            1. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              It is mainly metaphor and symbol. As we progress through genesis more and more historical events unfold.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I am specifically referring to the metaphor part. Where/what is it?
                You know you gotta "dumb it down" for us simpletons. wink
                I must know what to respond to.

                1. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I will get back to you on that. At the moment I am still getting the atheist feeding frenzy off your back so you can have a quiet chat to your new friends.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Lol!!!
                    Rest your mind. smile this battle was won years ago. I have no fear of my enemies coming upon me to eat up my flesh. The LORD is with me. And he's much more than the world against.
                    Please explain the metaphor of Adam and Eve and I forgot the other

            2. janesix profile image58
              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, I think the story of the Garden of Eden is a metaphor, but based on something very real. But I don't think we were "cast  out". I think we chose to come here, and be created. I think we are just little tiny sparks of God, in the material world, having an experience of separation. "Otherness". To know "good and evil" is to know a separate life from God. We are separate, individual creatures, but our soul is a tiny life spark of the soul of God. God is pure good in my mind. There is no evil to me, just less good, the further we are away from God (as in, less harmonious, I'm not talking about people in general. Just things we do and choices we make that go against natural law)

              Most of this is just what I "feel". Some of it is based on what I've learned about harmony, some about mythology and religion. Some is reasoned out "made up" out of what seems logical to me. Why I tell you that is because, you could well be right, or the atheists could be right, or the Muslims. I don't think anyone on this Earth really knows what's going on.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I see. I cannot fully agree because I believe the bible. I believe that we were created by the hand of God and that our existence is to be a fulillment of what he desires.
                To believe Adam and Eve to be metaphor somewhat knocks the messages out of line. How then did we get here? What then is our instruction? Why then are we bothered with good and evil? WAS there just a gradual prgression to flesh from the one cell in the swamp???
                These and other questions I would ask if, once again, the bible cannot be trusted to have told the story as is from the purest form of truth.

                1. profile image0
                  Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You must feel that Adam and Eve were Africans about 200,000 years ago?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    I believe Adam and Eve to have actually been the first people on Earth made from earth. It does not matter if they were African or when they arrived.

                2. EncephaloiDead profile image53
                  EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  You have state several times you have no desire to learn anything about the facts regarding our origins, why would you even bother asking those questions?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    For me, our origins are solely based upon what the scriptures say. It is truth. From the other perspective that the bible did not give us the accurate account; well THEN there are questions. As is; the bible wins. No questions... smile

                  2. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Encephalio
                    Get on with your Godel homework. Or else.

                3. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                  Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  How silly. What a feeble and pathetic god if we are the best it can do.


                  Yes. Unfortunately, two humans is not a big enough gene pool to have populated the earth, so this story cannot be true.



                  Evolution.


                  No instructions - sorry. sad



                  Good and evil are concepts and many are not bothered by them. Certainly you are not.



                  Yes.


                  The bible cannot be trusted and is not pure truth. We have to find our own answers. Lean on our own understanding. Make our own purpose. No matter how much you stand in the way of that, this is the truth.

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    It is truth for YOU. Your decision of where to place the allotment of faith that you've been given. No aye de mí. My faith is on the other table. smile  I am free to live this life abundantly. Your truth is false to me.

                  2. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Righteous atheist
                    Where is your homework on the evils of deliberate misconstruing?

                4. janesix profile image58
                  janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  .
                  "How then did we get here?" Through (planned out and directed) evolution.

                  "What then is our instruction?" No instruction, beyond an ingrained sense of right and wrong, a kind of interior compass.

                  "Why then are we bothered with good and evil?" Separation from God. Disharmony inherent in that separation. Duality due to separation. God is love. Everything else is a separation from love, the source, God.

                  "WAS there just a gradual prgression to flesh from the one cell in the swamp???" Yes, but it was planned out from the beginning, so God could experience separation, otherness, with a way back to the source. Which is what I think Enlightenment is. I think God created us to experience life as another being. We aren't the end result. Something more spiritual is. Eventually, back to the source. The circle of life.


                  I want to remind you, this is my current interpretation of life, due to personal religious experience, research into science and mythology and religion, and then of course, best guesses based on all of that combined. My own little theory of everything. I could be wrong on all accounts. Plus, I change my theory as I gain new insight and information:)

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Good worldy perception. The ideas are just not biblical. That is always the angle I report from.
                    God is spiritual; and thinks nothing like we do. We must try to align our thoughts with his based upon what we know from scripture.
                    But ok, you are not Christian (follower of Jesus). Our reality differs a bit. I can handle that. smile

  44. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    I mean Faith...

    1. Michael-Milec profile image62
      Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      FAITH is. - By now everyone sharing on this forum knows acknowledging its powerful meaning in the lives of many, otherwise won't be opposition to it. The same with existence of The God. If for you God doesn't exist, why are you fighting His existence at all ?  Because  in every human being there is that original spot where there eternal resigns and has been separated by disobedience and distrust at the Garden. Some call it sin. You already heard this, let me remind you once more : Without faith is impossible  to reach God-DON'T even try! Working faith is the principle set in orbit by the Creator. (( On a small scale: how do you know that those two people someone told you are you parents, actually your parents are ??- mostly by believing .)) IN REAL world Faith is ability to reach into the real-spiritual realm of the Creator-God-YAHWH. Thus Faith reaches where God resides-operates, sometimes called supernatural- it is above our nature- more real- eternal - omnipresent- and when your spirit is " born of God "  - you are receiving what God has revealed. (( You never been in my kitchen, never ate food prepared by me and yet, you try to deny it as it doesn't exist. )) Let me be frank, most of those on opposite of faith are searching to fill the emptiness in themselves  a peace -spot God and FAITh in Jesus can give and this forums helping them to satisfy the hunger.

      1. wilderness profile image76
        wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Well said.  Until this fabled god instills faith without reason into us, we will not be allowed into heaven, but will burn for eternity instead.  Which it seldom does, very effectively condemning billions of people to hell and torment forever.

        Not a creature I would choose to worship, then - the question becomes why anyone would.  By our lights it is not a moral OR loving thing to do.

        1. Michael-Milec profile image62
          Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Well said. It's matter of choice.

          1. wilderness profile image76
            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Very true.  I just don't like the thought of some nasty, vindictive little god somewhere choosing to burn me for eternity because it built me without faith and decided it doesn't like me as a result.  Any more than I like the idea of me choosing to worship an imaginary figment that is said to do things like that.

            1. Michael-Milec profile image62
              Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Fair enough. You don't like it, then you don't. It's between you and your god.

              1. wilderness profile image76
                wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                But I don't have one - no faith means no god.  I have to put up with whatever YOUR god will do, and you tell me that it will burn me forever because it made me with no faith.

        2. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          In that case, would it not be smarter to give in and bow down than burn? I mean if you believe there is fire, why not run in the opposite direction? I don't know nobody who runs TOWARD a fiery inferno. But hey, hopelessness is like that...

          1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
            Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            How sad for you.Do you feel hopeless all the time? sad

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I feel hopeless none of the time. smile Thank God!!! But I see light at the end of my tunnel. Not smoke...

          2. profile image0
            Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            But there are those that will pull the fire alarm just to watch everyone run.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Jesus pulled the alarm long ago. He says with that, "Run to me to me, I got water to quench your flames and plenty of aloe for your wounds. Need some oxygen for inhalation??? ...got that TOO!!!" smile
              His healing is unmatched.

          3. wilderness profile image76
            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            The term was not "bow down" but faith.  Sure, I can lie and say I believe and have unlimited faith in the god's existence and wonderfulness.  Do you think that will do the trick, or do I need real faith and belief?

            Because that real faith isn't there and will likely never be there.  Knowledge comes before faith and belief as far as I'm concerned; it's just the way I was made, the way I am.  To simply believe without evidence is the height of foolishness as far as I'm concerned and all the make believe stories doesn't change that.  I still require evidence for belief, whether I would like it different or not.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I meant give in. Faith is given wilderness. We just put it in...things we can see??? But by now, you know better. You cannot see a lot of stuff that happens daily right under your nose. But still it is NOT good enough. Your faith is misplaced. You believe your reports from your unseen experiments conducted in the fields of Africa and Asia. Your faith is there. And you refuse that fact. You'd rather blame God in hopes that he will accept that blame. Nope. He sent you the word. You just reject it in favor of eye candy and ear scratchers. wink

              1. wilderness profile image76
                wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                I do totally understand that you think everyone has faith in your make believe father in the sky, but that doesn't make it true.  The large majority of humanity alive today has no such belief. 

                Whether you can live with that or not is up to you; if it destroys your own faith to understand that others have none, I'm sorry.  If it means you believe in yet another fairy tale in order to support the first one, I'm even sorrier still.

                1. Cgenaea profile image60
                  Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I believe you purposely twist my words. smile to be clear, you have NO faith in my sky daddy. Your faith is in man. Clearly.

                  1. wilderness profile image76
                    wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    And what does that faith tell me?  You know, making up new definitions doesn't count, though - faith is belief without evidence.  So what is my faith in man?

                  2. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Yes they are in an atheist feeding frenzy of misconstruing.
                    When offered science and reason they just hypocriticly ignore it and carry on like naughty children.

                2. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Statistics of course show the majority are theists.
                  But as usual our resident atheists ignore science when they want to.

                3. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Wilderness
                  That is so boring.

          4. EncephaloiDead profile image53
            EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That's why it is recommended those who have less than a tentative grip on reality seek out professional help so they may understand the mental disorders causing them hopelessness, to hallucinate and believe in fiery infernos. Bowing down is not a solution to the problem, but only a reaction to the disorder.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Noted; thank you.

            2. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Do you spend any time on Peter Singers beastialy problems? Are you at all critical of after birth abortion/infanticide? No.
              If you want to root out mental illness start  with Singer and co.
              But you wont will you! Why? Hypocrisy.

      2. Righteous Atheist profile image58
        Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        At least you admit you have invented something to fill the empty spot in your life. Why assume everyone else is a pathetic as yourself? Is your hunger satisfied by mythical beings? How sad for you. No wonder you seek to cause so much ill will.

        Show me instead of preaching. Glad you know what is in every human being - I think you are not being honest.

        1. Michael-Milec profile image62
          Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Only The God can give you peace of mind you're searching for. Going after me, attributing labels of yours to me won't change much, at least the eternal truth is being proclaimed.

          1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
            Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Please stop attacking me. This is not convincing me you have peace of mind. lol

            1. Michael-Milec profile image62
              Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              The same to you, double portion.

              1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                At least you admit that the Jesus myth did not give you any peace of mind. Thanks for being honest at last.

                1. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Yawn. Atheist feeding frenzy. Again.

                  1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                    Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Yawn. Fake Christian lies about being persecuted. Again. No wonder you cause so many fights. sad

            2. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              RighteousAtheist
              Get back in your seat and do your homework.

              1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Sorry you don't understand. Is that why you are so angry that people don't believe in majick?

                1. Oztinato profile image77
                  Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm not angry at all; just in the mood for educating.
                  Read Gödel's theorem: its not magic just math,.

                  1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
                    Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    I have read it. Clearly you have not.

          2. wilderness profile image76
            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            But your god will not act without faith; faith that the god must first instill but refuses to do.

            As far as "eternal truth" - it is truth only in your imagination.  The real world finds no god out there.

            1. Michael-Milec profile image62
              Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I am O.K. Are you?

            2. Oztinato profile image77
              Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Do your godel homework.

        2. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Pathetic??? What an adjective... so accusatory. Seems some sort of form of pathology. But very condescending in its ultimate sense. It implies that you yourself are somehow NOT pathetic... like you are somehow a better person for not accepting the hand of God. smile

      3. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Yes. An unquieted cry for "real" smile

  45. EncephaloiDead profile image53
    EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years ago

    Oh look, I was right, you do keep referring to it without even understanding it yourself.

    We may have a new candidate here for the most disingenuous poster on these forums. lol

    1. Michael-Milec profile image62
      Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      As long as you understand yourself, you will leave others ( me ) alone . A new candidate?- welcome ! Let rest of the world vote for you .

    2. profile image0
      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If the two guys who invented software to run equations understand that the math didn't prove the existence of a God why doesn't he?

      1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
        EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        It's what truly desperate, dishonest believers do, they read a sensationalist headline somewhere and wave it around with their bibles as proof of their God without understanding anything about what's written there.

        1. Oztinato profile image77
          Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Encephalio
          For the last time....have you done your homework yet on the concept of necessity in the godel theorem? No. I thought so.

  46. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Have you ever gone to science headquarters to supervise debunk experiments or performed your own carbon dating of "evidence"??? Please say yes...

    1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
      EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That, from someone who has yet to open another book other than the bible and adamantly refuses to learn anything. lol

      1. Michael-Milec profile image62
        Michael-Milecposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Just because " someone " open the Bible and compare to  " another book " they "  discover " from, have wisdom and knowledge and are ahead of those who vehemently judging others what they do or don't do ...

        1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
          EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          No idea what you're talking about.

      2. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Nice right? wink How many of the debunk experiments have YOU attended??? How many theorums have YOU faithfully/blindly accepted?

        1. EncephaloiDead profile image53
          EncephaloiDeadposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Do you even know what you're talking about?



          None. People who use their brains to understand things don't use faith to blindly accept stuff, but I know you have no concept of how science works nor do you care to learn anything.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Alright. No blind faith for you. How many experiments??? You must be in the hundreds by now. Needing so much verification...

          2. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Encephalio
            And thats why you refuse to see the science behind "necessity" in a math theorem? Thats Hypocrisy on your part. Do your homework you guys.
            Youre just on a feeding frenzy of misconstruing on a bible study. You must be bored.

  47. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Ouch RA...! You speaking down to my peeps. It seems as if you have pegged us liars. smile but determining one unABLE to discern morals??? Low...
    Truth is as WE see it. Who are you to determine anything? There is only one determiner. And you are not he. Nor do you care to be. There is no reason to resort to fancy name-calling and condescension to the nth; unless you have exhausted all other "evidence" with which to make your point. And I just know that you are much too busy with your verification processes down at the science headquarters to have run out of "evidence" to share.
    So, let us hear more about your ABILITY to know truth and determine morality. Name-calling can get somewhat projectiony and boomerangy.

    1. Dr Lamb profile image54
      Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Actually you are completely wrong. Human are very good at knowing right from wrong. We know for instance that slavery and genocide is wrong something that the writers of the bible did not. We know that all men and women should be treated as equal, something the writers of the bible did not. We know that it's wrong to cut out your eye if you have wandering eyes.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Slavery and genocide are wrong in most cases today. Jesus came. wink
        Humans are imperfect. Therefore prone to imperfect perceptions and/or judgments. They may guess. But the humans here in America are currently enslaving poor and minority people at alarming rates. Blacks make up about 13% of the population. Black males less than half that. However, in current penal institutions, they greatly and by far out-number EVERYONE else. Here in America, schools and low-income assistance and housing are closing. But we are building more and more prisons. wink WHICH humans are capable of justice without further insult??? I told you MY stupid story... I thought those who pointed their finger at the law when "caught" were liars. Then I experienced what they said... made me think...

        1. Dr Lamb profile image54
          Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Most cases? Can you think of any cases where slavery or genocide is moral?


          Correct, we are imperfect so we have established prisons rather than stoning people to death for something like not being a virgin on your wedding night.
          Enslaving? Do they own them like a purchased pet? Are they forced to work for free?

          Irrelevant information. Are you suggesting that the society is immoral because black males are imprisoned or is the problem with the culture?

          I have no idea what you are talking about.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            smile First, I am sure that in this country and others, people trade servitude for needed resources. Some would call that slavery. However prisons are not built for non virgins, seems America likes them... but prisons are built for the wayward criminals. And I guess this country considers Black males a good fit for that category. smile problem with the culture??? Why yes!!! The problems are constantly bestowed upon the culture's good and bad alike. Thanks for noticing wink
            Genocide is not good ever in my opinion, UNLESS the pharoh brings his madness again.
            Am I moral? I think so. Are you???

            1. Dr Lamb profile image54
              Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              You are confusing me. Are you suggesting we change our laws to better select the demographic.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                We ALREADY change our laws to "better" fit the demographic. smile
                don't be confused; read the daily paper.

                1. Dr Lamb profile image54
                  Dr Lambposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  And what should we do to change our laws so that we better represent the demographic? How do we change the laws so that we have less black men lock up?

                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    To answer this question takes tons of knowledge that I do not have. I do know that black men are lawfully targeted. Poor ones doubly so. Everybody knows that! wink

                  2. Oztinato profile image77
                    Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    By creating a more ethical love based society.

              2. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                No dr lamb..you are just a confusing person.
                Its the same ol atheist feeding frenzy in a bible study. Like pulling wings off  flies. Not an ethical practice.

            2. wilderness profile image76
              wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Yes, some will call it slavery.  The same people that redefine the meaning of words whenever they see fit, thinking that if they do that it means they get the point.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Are you having problems with definitions again??? 'f this were Charlie Brown, you'd be at the chalkboard. Lol...

                1. wilderness profile image76
                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this
                  1. Cgenaea profile image60
                    Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                    Your link was broken and I am not surprised. To the chalkboard!!! I mean, womp womp womp womp. smile lol

              2. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Wilderness
                You are in your element: an unscientific misconstruing confusing hyopcritical waste of time.

            3. janesix profile image58
              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              "First, I am sure that in this country and others, people trade servitude for needed resources. Some would call that slavery"

              Come on! That's just "getting a job."

              Slavery is when you don't have a choice in the matter.

          2. Oztinato profile image77
            Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            DrLamb
            We finally agree on something:...you have no idea(s).
            Get back to your Godel homework and the scientific concept of "necessity".

      2. Oztinato profile image77
        Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        DrLamb
        Right from wrong? Then why do we have laws that evolved out of religion?
        How did we get the GFC? Because people all know right from wrong?

        1. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          You mean like the one forbidding slavery.  Or no unusual punishment, like stoning, is allowed.  Or that we can choose our own religion (or none at all) without interference from stronger churches.  Yep, evolved right out of religion, they did - a good thing SOME of us can tell right from wrong, whether religion can or not.

          1. Cgenaea profile image60
            Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Yes! smile Freedom... it's a Christ concept. Because he brought almost all of those rules! Free to make OUR OWN decision about which force/conscience will rule our minds. Good answer!!! (Whew...I thought you were under the impression that God "decided" for you.)

            1. wilderness profile image76
              wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Freedom and Christianity have been mutually exclusive since long before Christ walked the earth.  God encouraged his people to enslave people, and murdered anyone not willing to follow his rules.  Even now, if we don't accept a made up god creature in the sky we will burn for eternity.

              No, freedom and your god make very poor bedfellows.

              1. Cgenaea profile image60
                Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                LOL!!! You refuse to meet Jesus. Confusion is inevitable.

  48. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    Here, maybe.

  49. Cgenaea profile image60
    Cgenaeaposted 11 years ago

    When I say that morality is shrinking outside of prisons, I meant that outside of the sheltered environment where many choices are stripped; there is progressively less morality.
    As I said before, many prisoners are innocent men. Possibly just one result of the shrinking morality outside of prisons. The police really suck sometimes. I personally saw a small group of them set someone up and get away with it in court. As well, government corruption is seemingly on the rise. People are meaner and less connected, making them more prone to violence. Need I say more? Less morality.

    1. wilderness profile image76
      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Wait.  You saw a small group of criminals set up an innocent person and did not come forward to give eyewitness testimony?  Did you even make the offer to the defending attorney?  Did you do anything to protect your fellow man from the criminals?

      Morality includes the duty to help those in need - perhaps there is indeed less morality out there.

      1. Cgenaea profile image60
        Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Incidentally smile I did all that I could do. Now what???
        Morality...

        1. wilderness profile image76
          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Ah, well.  Sometimes the defense attorney is in on the conspiracy, along with the judge and even jury - there is nothing anyone could do in such a case.  Except perhaps go public...

          Some can just do more than others, even without God's help.

  50. profile image0
    Rad Manposted 11 years ago

    Many-no
    Some-yes

    Ever stop and think there those who are in prison are there because of there own lack of morals?

    1. Cgenaea profile image60
      Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Well yes. There are many who are there who need to be imo. But many; much too many are there falsely accused.

      1. psycheskinner profile image63
        psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        One is too many. 

        But to suggest those in a regimented environment where they lack the freedom to get into much trouble (but where horrible things still happen pretty often) is "moral"?  I disagree.

        Morality is a personal choice to be good, not lacking the option to do evil.

        1. Cgenaea profile image60
          Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I understand. I am not calling the detainees a moral group of people. I realize I may have given a bad impression when I said they are safe. I meant from the many harms that could befall them on the outside. There is much less morality. Now, even children are murderers.

          1. Righteous Atheist profile image58
            Righteous Atheistposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Interesting. When was it better exactly? wink Be specific or it looks like you are making stuff up. You already get burned for preaching and divorcing and living in sin. Don't add to your crimes. You sure you believe? wink

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              For some reason you judge one who is way beyond your judgment. smile I think it's really funny; and I LOL each time. You are just FULL of cuteness.
              It was better when children didn't take gunns to school and when mass murderers didn't shoot up college campuses. You remember when... right?
              Oh, btw...we are judged by the way we judge. Don't slide down the slope wink

          2. psycheskinner profile image63
            psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I suspect the rate of rape, assault and murder is higher in prison than outside.

            1. Cgenaea profile image60
              Cgenaeaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Did you poll all the prisons and put them against the remainder of the country? I highly doubt your numbers. Don't just make stuff up... wink

              1. Oztinato profile image77
                Oztinatoposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                Cgenea
                My advice is to ignore the persistent trolling atheists as they are deliberately misrepresenting and are not interested in honest debate.

 
working

This website uses cookies

As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, hubpages.com uses cookies (and other similar technologies) and may collect, process, and share personal data. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so.

For more information on managing or withdrawing consents and how we handle data, visit our Privacy Policy at: https://corp.maven.io/privacy-policy

Show Details
Necessary
HubPages Device IDThis is used to identify particular browsers or devices when the access the service, and is used for security reasons.
LoginThis is necessary to sign in to the HubPages Service.
Google RecaptchaThis is used to prevent bots and spam. (Privacy Policy)
AkismetThis is used to detect comment spam. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide data on traffic to our website, all personally identifyable data is anonymized. (Privacy Policy)
HubPages Traffic PixelThis is used to collect data on traffic to articles and other pages on our site. Unless you are signed in to a HubPages account, all personally identifiable information is anonymized.
Amazon Web ServicesThis is a cloud services platform that we used to host our service. (Privacy Policy)
CloudflareThis is a cloud CDN service that we use to efficiently deliver files required for our service to operate such as javascript, cascading style sheets, images, and videos. (Privacy Policy)
Google Hosted LibrariesJavascript software libraries such as jQuery are loaded at endpoints on the googleapis.com or gstatic.com domains, for performance and efficiency reasons. (Privacy Policy)
Features
Google Custom SearchThis is feature allows you to search the site. (Privacy Policy)
Google MapsSome articles have Google Maps embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
Google ChartsThis is used to display charts and graphs on articles and the author center. (Privacy Policy)
Google AdSense Host APIThis service allows you to sign up for or associate a Google AdSense account with HubPages, so that you can earn money from ads on your articles. No data is shared unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Google YouTubeSome articles have YouTube videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
VimeoSome articles have Vimeo videos embedded in them. (Privacy Policy)
PaypalThis is used for a registered author who enrolls in the HubPages Earnings program and requests to be paid via PayPal. No data is shared with Paypal unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook LoginYou can use this to streamline signing up for, or signing in to your Hubpages account. No data is shared with Facebook unless you engage with this feature. (Privacy Policy)
MavenThis supports the Maven widget and search functionality. (Privacy Policy)
Marketing
Google AdSenseThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Google DoubleClickGoogle provides ad serving technology and runs an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Index ExchangeThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
SovrnThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Facebook AdsThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Unified Ad MarketplaceThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
AppNexusThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
OpenxThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Rubicon ProjectThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
TripleLiftThis is an ad network. (Privacy Policy)
Say MediaWe partner with Say Media to deliver ad campaigns on our sites. (Privacy Policy)
Remarketing PixelsWe may use remarketing pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to advertise the HubPages Service to people that have visited our sites.
Conversion Tracking PixelsWe may use conversion tracking pixels from advertising networks such as Google AdWords, Bing Ads, and Facebook in order to identify when an advertisement has successfully resulted in the desired action, such as signing up for the HubPages Service or publishing an article on the HubPages Service.
Statistics
Author Google AnalyticsThis is used to provide traffic data and reports to the authors of articles on the HubPages Service. (Privacy Policy)
ComscoreComScore is a media measurement and analytics company providing marketing data and analytics to enterprises, media and advertising agencies, and publishers. Non-consent will result in ComScore only processing obfuscated personal data. (Privacy Policy)
Amazon Tracking PixelSome articles display amazon products as part of the Amazon Affiliate program, this pixel provides traffic statistics for those products (Privacy Policy)
ClickscoThis is a data management platform studying reader behavior (Privacy Policy)