I was checking out this Hub on Whoopi Goldberg and 'The View' and came upon Whoopi and Baver walking out of the show, on the remark of Bill O'Reilly that 'Muslims killed us on 9/11'. I then went looking and found another clip on Utube a talk radio program clip of David Pakman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzMy66Dj … ure=relmfu)
analyzing the incident and the comment. It set me thinking, yes, how many times do we simultaneously think of 'Terrorist' and 'Muslims' as if they are synonymous? Coming from a land where the muslims have had thousand years of history to share with the Hindus, and yet had the diplomatic ploy of religion tear them asunder to gain independence, the question is relevant and painful for me. As a person living as minority in a muslim neighborhood, I have experienced muslim kindness and protection, on several local riotous incidents, where totally strange men and women have opened their doors and hearts and been concerned about the safety of a young woman alone on the street. At odd late hours of night I have been offered a home drop by muslim autodrivers or taxi-drivers even if they were actually going home and had to go out of their way to accomodate me. But I have distinctly heard them consider 'She will be in trouble if left on the streets so late at night'! On the question of terrorism when Bin Laden or anyone else is just about equated with the happy-go-lucky kid in his teens in my street, who had always saluted me with 'How are you sister?' I feels a personally affronted and degraded as a human being.
I sure do not. Muslims are nice people just like us all.
I do not speak for "WE" for others, BUT, personally I do think of them that way.
9\11 is but one example. Look in the news at how many times Muslims have strapped bombs to themselves, or to vehicles and killed innocent people. Simply Look at how they treat their own women, forcing them to have operations to curtail their sexual pleasures (clitoral removal). Look at how the man, the husband or the father will murder his own family and claim that it is a part of their Sharia Law calling it an Honour killing.
Think again research before you speak.
Dave, it is wonderful that you realize you cannot speak (as WE) for all 'Christians' or Americans or Non-muslims; but sad that likewise you do not realize you cannot speak collectively against all 'them' or the 'Muslims'! Incidentally, you choose information that is very well publicized by western papers and I or anybody will not say those do not happen. But what part of those happen in 'all' muslim states, for example? The former USSR had several muslim states, you may have heard of some of them- Khazakisthan, Lithunia etc. ; few of the most beautiful, peaceful and artistic countries of the world. You may have heard of the Maldives too- crime is pretty low there; it is the western tourists that are importing crime in the form of drug abuse to this peaceful little country. Muslim countries and people do not necessarily mean Iran, Iraq and Afghanisthan. Honour Killing is not about Muslims, it is rampant in India too- which is not a Muslim country, and in India Muslims rarely do honour killing, it is mostly the upper class Hindus who do it. These are not my assumptions, but data that can be verified quite easily on the internet. I am also enclosing a list of Muslim countries so you can check out if you have considered all of these muslims when you spoke of 'terrorists'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mu … _countries
My mute point was, 'terrorists' are a class apart- that many of them call themselves following Islam is only incidental and not evidence against the 'Muslims'. According to reports of FBI, Muslim-extremist terrorism acts in USA are only 6-7% of all terrorist acts in the USA.
http://newworldorderreport.com/News/tab … -True.aspx
Dave, I am not at all despondent when I picked this topic for the forum discussion, because over the years, Americans have strongly voiced their disappointment in their phobic government leaving its own domestic issues unresolved and running invading countries on false pretexts of unearthing nuclear arms. Also, when Americans now are asking for stopping war in the name of fighting terrorism, they are not doing it as any 'Christian Act' but because they realize it is necessary for self-preservation.
The world powers (Bush, Blair etc etc) have used the media to instill this thought that whenever there is an attack, it is done by Muslim terrorists. There is no question about it.
Every single attack is blamed on Muslims. It is all about the New World Order.
Salaam, Mr. Miah. How interesting that we both have been writing for Hubpages for about the same time and we have never had contact before. I am pleased to be able to exchange ideas with you today. I see that you have be more productive than I have.
I was interested in your statement“Every single attack is blamed on Muslims.” Based on my experience, the only attacks blamed on Muslims were attacks planned and/or committed by Muslims. It would certainly be interesting if you listed here any attacks you know of that where falsely blamed on Muslims.
I thank you for your contribution to this thread. I am looking for forward to your further comments.
It would be more real to say most attacts have been setups by the assumed new world order. There is always nutjobs worldwide to fall for those greedy delustoinals.
Greetings. I have been following your many interesting posts for a long time.
It seems that you agree with Mr. Miah. Perhaps you will also share with us some of the terrorist attacks that you can prove where falsely blamed on Muslims. I am sure the evidence you supply will be very informative.
I have a great deal of respect for anyone who can support his conclusions with solid, verifiable facts. On the other hand, opinions not built upon actual knowledge are never very convincing.
I appreciate your many contributions to these forum discussions. I am looking forward to your further comments as well.
From experience traveling and working 49 U.S. States and visited the Middle east a few times. I find the vast majority of people are basically good. Yet get different feeling and ideas on how the greedy/Gov’t works on both sides
From following the U.S. history of World War 1 and 2 and Bankers involvement (predominated whites the white house) Then after studying the USA Military 72 wars attracts on brown skin Counties. The you in active duty military troops stationed in nearly 150 countries. U.S. has established its control over 191 governments which are members of the United Nations.
You will find extreme US Mischief globally like no other time in history or as wide spread in human history. Country Worldwide are sick and tired of being bullied and when the American dollar is backed by Oil it’s only logically where the source of the vast majority of the attracts on the Middle east are coming from and we know many of the low energy people they hire to do it. Countries are starting to kick the US wail they down and will continue to kick harder,
Let’s be honest
Hello Everyone. It's been a while. What got me interested was Q's reply to "post evidence" otherwise of the networks news reports of who was responsible for a terrorist incident. I would like to ask everyone,Why is a mass media story deserving to be trusted without a doubt?. Does anyone have independent information to prove a mass media story true? I didn't think so. Just imagine an indoctrinated audience that was trained blindly believe every word of a presented story. The fun we could have. The opinions we could shape. There's no way they could all be handed the same script .huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/17/local-news-phrase-conan_n_4460787.html
Hey there, MDS. Where have you been hiding? Nice to have you drop by to say hello.
I think very few people these days are inclined to accept every mass media story without some level of a doubt. Very public events, for example, are far more difficult to manipulate. After the release of the Kosher Market hostages, early reports from Paris said that the perp’s girlfriend evaded capture by fleeing amid the crowd of escaping customers. Later reports said she actually left the country days before the event.
The point is made repeatedly that early reports are nearly always the least accurate.
Of course, there are many others, but I consider the following to be among the most important techniques needed:
Modern consumers of news events need to hone their critical thinking skills;
They need to develop the ability to comprehend, interpret and explore the facts being presented; and perhaps most importantly,
They need to resist defeatism by keeping their healthy skepticism from being poisoned by other people’s cynicism.
Again, it is great to see you here.
Thank you Q . I have been very busy with my day job for quite a while. I regretted commenting on something you had posted but the subject matter had been put out there. I have lost all respect for network news. My wife actually tells me to turn it off because I get so worked up. I just looked up the Ohio suspected terrorist picture. Is it just me or does his hair look photoshopped? When did it start being all the rage for suspected terrorists faces to be covered in a black rag? Always the same 10 second video clip or white background picture. When did they pose for that? I guess it's just my nature to question everything.When I've felt I got a concrete answer,cross it off the list.
It is no more sane to associate Islam with terrorism than it is to associate Christianity with war. It is easier to predicate war when the population believes they are up against something different and therefore unknowable. It is like defining the west by the Ku Klux Klan.
When Muslims are found to be terrorists, and that most acts of terrorism have been done by Muslims, then there is an association and a connection that is factual, not subjective.
In this century, most of the terrorism attacks have been made by Muslims.
Do you have facts that prove otherwise?
2000 1 June: Real IRA bomb explodes on Hammersmith Bridge, London
2000 20 September: Real IRA fired a RPG at the MI6 HQ in London SIS Building
2001 4 March: The Real IRA detonate a car bomb outside the BBC's main news centre in London. One London Underground worker suffered deep cuts to his eye from flying glass and some damage was caused to the front of the building. (See 4 March 2001 BBC bombing)
2001 16 April: Hendon post office bombed by the Real IRA.
2001 6 May: The Real IRA detonate a bomb in a London postal sorting office. One person was injured.
2001 3 August: A Real IRA Bomb in Britain explodes in Ealing, West London, injuring seven people. (See 3 August 2001 Ealing bombing)
2001 4 November: Real IRA car bomb explodes in Birmingham
And that's just for starters.
Bill O'Reilly counts on peoples ignorance. Too bad for him, he's increasingly becoming irrelevant.
Innersmiff, you are correct. In a way we all probably realize that it is illogical to label a particular race for a certain crime, but somehow when discussing and talking we are irresponsible and would hint at such, defaming muslims as a whole, as if they are a homogeneous mass and not individuals like the rest (meaning non-muslims). Unnecessarily this hate game gets replayed and the circle grows bigger and bigger, enabling the actual miscreants to get away with crime in the name of righteous actions in support of the 'sect'.
It is not illogical to associate the terrorists with a common denominator, and here it is that they are predominantly Muslims. It doesn't matter if they are good or bad Muslims, they are Muslims.
These terrorists in this century take credit for their acts of terrorism.
The probability of a terrorist attack by a Muslim is high, do you have facts that prove a different probability.
The latter part of last century, the IRA and the Catholics were involved in terrorism, as well as the White Supremacists, but not in this century. And it is tomorrow's terrorist attack that we need to defend against.
I agree to the essence of your concern. If we have to prepare against tomorrow's acts of terrorism- we will have to be prepared mentally atleast, to begin with, for an equitable distribution- of literacy, health, good life and non-discriminating political action (non-aggressive too). Yes, and please rest assured that it will never happen, your government, the US government will never modulate its foreign policy and stop from sticking its nose into others affairs so long as its citizens continue to think that it is their own rights and privileges that the Government is fighting for in foreign soil. So, basically, look for the solution in reforming your own (I don't mean you particularly, please, don't read it literally) thoughts and behavioral patterns. And this has not been about the muslim countries only, but about the muslim countries also.
Not all Muslims are terrorists, but most of the terrorists in this century have been Muslim, including the 19 that were involved in 911.
So you really didn't make a point.
Name one other religion that has terrorist action in the last ten years on American soil.
That is why Americans think "Muslim" when we think "terrorist" If it had been Jews we would think Jews, if it had been Hindus we would think Hindus but it was Muslims. Plan and simple it's just automatic like when you think O.J. Simpson 90% of people will think of a the murders.
Unfortunately, it were not muslims. There was no consensus among 'muslims' to plan and execute the attack of 9/11. It was a group of irrational, extremists who thought just as blindly as O'Reilly that 'our misery is by Americans'! (It is not true, we know.)
It is only incidental, that these terrorists wear 'islamic' garb. That too, is suspect, for islam does not teach aggression but rather teaches 'kurbani', the ultimate sacrifice. I think you will agree that not 'all Americans' agree to the different military occupation of USA on foreign soil? Yet, if the rest of the world, meaning as an individual some 'muslim1' and 'muslim2' who may be some 'Afghan1' or 'Irani2' or 'Indian3' for that matter, were to think that the misery of the muslims in these middle-east countries is due to the neo-imperialistic policies of USA, and start calling all Americans the destructors of 'freedom' and 'independence', would it be the truth? But yes, at present, USA is the sole perpetrator of occupation in the name of protecting weak states against aggression. Who is to tell the terrorists that in 9/11 the people that died did not 'all' believe in these warfare and foreign policies of USA?
Pardon me but were the people who organized the attacks of 9/11 muslim? The issue is not about the content of the Quran. You asked why do we associate muslim with terrorists, the reason is because a muslim group took responsiblity for the attacks. Plan and simple. The issue isn't about the purity of Islam or opinions of the US.
'The 9/11 Commission Report determined that the animosity towards the United States felt by Mohammed, the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks, stemmed from his "violent disagreement with U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel".'(Wikipedia)...
All Muslim organizations of America condemned the act of terrorism on 9/11. There have been false alarms against sane and responsible muslim cityzens in UK and USA, and even some cruel, state action against perfectly innocent people.
Such actions and sentiments only further alienate the youth - and instead of being 'anti-terrorism' become 'pro-terrorism'.
When it is known that the latest ammunition that the terrorist groups are using, are from the store-houses of the advanced west, or is it to be denied? The perpetrator of this evil then becomes the Christians?
In IRAC Muslims kill other Muslims.
The terrorists involved in 911 were Muslims, and until they began their attack, they were model people, so goes the FBI reports on their activities prior to 911.
So how do we know who the extremists are before they get activated to kill?
Since 9/11, fears changed from "fear the black man" to "fear the Muslim". People like Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reily insist on keeping their listeners scared and stupid to get them to think the way they want them to think. If only these mentally lazy peiople were able to think for themselves.
Last week it was revealed that at least two Commonwealth War Cemeteries had been desecrated in Libya. The graves of Australians who gave their lives to free Libya from Mussolini and Hitler were attacked.
As one local man said in the TV report "This is not Islam. People who attack any graves - Christian or Muslim - are against Islam.
I do not believe that all Muslims are terrorists any more than I believe all terrorists are Muslims.
Acts of terrorism are mislead youth trying to remedy a mistake by another mistake. They need to be handled with stern and united abhorrence of the state and the people; but not with lop-sided, sectarian ideas. That further aggravates and throws people apart and helps such separatist forces.
How about believing the most of the terrorists in this century were Muslims.
Do you have any proof to refute that statement.
I think its terrible and wrong but some Americans do make that mistake. We really need to work at this problem to change their hearts and minds, so many have been led by certain talking heads to believe that all Muslims are the enemy and to be feared when the truth is that many terrorists aren't Islamists and Islamic terrorists are such a small minority of Muslims. I've known Muslims personally that were nothing but genuinely warm, good people who value things like family, community, charity, and hospitality. I wish more people in my country would realize that.
Muslims are just fine fine people. The problem is fundimentalists.
People that are clearly insane in the hate the have towards other belives and cultures.
tvsen, you are correct there. It is about fundamentalism, and in that all religious (and political factions, for nothing is without some political significance nowadays)will have their own share of the fiery brand, be that the Muslims, Hindus or Christians!
Hmm... not sure that I would trust wikipedia too much.
And no... that is not to say that I disagree with your views.
The right wing media ,American govt and Israeli govt have done all they can to put forward that the idea that Muslim = Terrorism. No one has noticed this?
Hello! Yes, yes and yes!
and btw redbeard....I think it was Jews. well, they call themselves Jews, but never do they act like it.
And members of our own gvt, some of whom-- I imagine, call themselves Christian.
So--you do not have authority on the answer as to what happened on 9/11....many people do not agree with you. MANY.
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?cont … ;aid=24697
"The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which make us surprise but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause harm to themselves. Terror is the most dreaded weapon in modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people."
The Jews were terrorists before Israel was founded - blowing up the King David hotel in Jerusalem for example.
In Northern Ireland we have people of two religions being terrorists against each other - part funded by Irish American donations.
In Nicaragua the US government supplied and funded the Contras.
President Mandela was a terrorist. So were Presidenrs Makarios and Kenyatta. And Castro.
And the Americans supported and trained Osama Bin Laden to fight against the Russians in Afghanistan. Oliver North explained his security defences were because of danger from Bin Laden.
No, the Muslims do not have a monopoly on terror.
Tune into American media, someone needs to tell them that.
Why America is supporting Pakistan while Pakistan is supporting terrorist and terrorist activity like Late. Osama Bin laden and many more terrorist group.
They pretty much are building a monopoly in this century.
Interesting question. One has to ponder the motivation of the question and a response, however the question poses the same methodology in thrusting an accusation of prejudice to absolve ALL Muslims, as it is assumed others condemn them all.
You may recall the coverage broadcast around the world of Muslims celebrating the 9/11 attacks, chanting support for the terrorists and their actions in the streets all across the broader Middle East. Millions of Muslims cheered as “we” mourned.
This is an image that is cauterized in the memories of many Americans. This was not a celebration of only “misguided youths” but of what is commonly called the Arab street. And a scene to often witnessed. Many times we as Americans have witnessed Muslims in mass groups across all ages, male and female, celebrate the deaths of others at the hands of Islamic induced terrorism.
And oddly, or is it? The “moderate” Muslims are silent. The question becomes is this silence generated from the fear of other Muslims if they speak out, or do they just quietly give their assent? A question often asked here, and never answered. Silence does not begat trust, nor do words, and we surely have seen little demonstrated by deeds, other than those in support of terrorism. So upon what basis should we segregate Muslim from Jihadist or Terrorist?
Or should we just continue to assume that all Muslims are "good Muslims" as our laws do until they prove they are not by an act of terrorism?
So do all Americans think all Muslims are all terrorists? The answer, proven by our deeds, words, laws and our restraint, is a resounding no. If it were a yes, the question wouldn’t even need to be broached, everyone would know the answer.
However, our patience and tolerance is growing thin.
Who showed you that image?
Did you also see the image of 3 Israeli men celebrating in the parking lot, as they were filming the event?
Did you hear about the 100's of Israeli's who were picked up for questioning that day? The van with the explosives in it under the bridge, the statement by Ohlmert?
That is the whole point....you saw what the media wanted you to see.
The initial video described above concerning the Muslim celebration of the 9/11 attacks was broadcast by Al Jazeera.
Perhaps you should stop shilling for your cause and filtering everything through liberal utopian lenses to be sure it all fits your talking points before you spout worthless one-sided, prejudicial, politically motivated, nonsensical garbage.
Your whole point, is as sharp as a cue ball.
Do you think you could tone down the rhetoric?
Great response.(please note,insert sarcasm here)
You have had the volume control on the rhetoric for quite awhile now LMC.
Can’t silence the truth, can’t spin it either.
But things can be taken out of context.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_ … 11_attacks
Guess the question was triggered by the clip of "The View" where O'Reilly's comment 'Muslims' killed Americans on 9/11. And the alternative posed was "terrorists" killed people on 9/11 (there were other nationals too). Is that "worthless one-sided, prejudicial, politically motivated, nonsensical garbage."?
If so, I am surprised that two American and quite iconic women walked out of the show in protest! I guess thinking terrorists have no other identity than being terrorists is too much of a "utopian liberal" idea!
I agree with your comments.
It is a good tactic to put us on the defensive for pointing out the terrorists that are Muslim.
"You have had the volume control on the rhetoric for quite awhile now LMC."
Well, I'm always asked to tone it down...I thought I would ask the same to those on your side.
And I agree totally....you can't spin the truth.
I do not see truth the same as others.
People can accept it, or keep ranting at me.
I think one thing that contributes to this issue is that there a lot of Americans who don't personally know any Muslims. I was fortunate in this respect - I had several Muslim students and got to know them as human beings.
And some people who do, don't realize they do! Contrary to popular belief, not all Muslims run around in turbans and burqas.
At first glance, most people assume my husband is Hispanic. At second glance, most people don't know what the heck he is, since he looks Hispanic, has a Russian accent, and goes by a nickname of utterly indeterminate ethnic origin. Even if you saw his full name you'd need to be able to recognize an unusual spelling of an obscure Persian name in order to figure it out.
That's true, too. My female Muslim students wore burqas, but the males didn't wear turbans. I think I discovered their religious followings when we studied literature from the world's religions. We had open discussions, and I was proud of my rural "farm boys" for treating everyone with respect during these discussions. We need more of this! It's a lot easier to hate nameless, faceless strangers than it is to hate flesh-and-blood individuals.
Yes, Muslims are associated with Terrorism, and Terrorists.
It doesn't mean that all Muslims are Terrorists or involved in Terrorism, but it is a fact that most of the Terrorism in this century can be attributed to Muslims.
The Muslims in Iraq are even killing each other over the leadership of the Muslim religion. Mohammad didn't explicitly pick his successor, and at least two factions disagree about who should lead them.
If you read the accounts of the 19 Muslims that were involved in 911, you would have read that they blended into the US and they were friendly and nice, but they still did the 911 attack on the United States.
Terrorism and Terrorists fit a profile today, and it would be very dangerous to ignore the facts involved in that profile. If a six foot eight inch bald, well built white guy killed sixteen people in Harlem or Watts. Who should the police be looking for? If a six foot eight inch bald, well built Black Guy killed sixteen people in Beverly Hills, Ca, who should the police look for? Yes these are profiles but they are built upon the facts of each case, and that is called investigation 101.
But by your reasoning, every six foot eight inch bald well built black guy would be a killer.
I hope that you are not in any way associated with law enforcement.
What it means is that the SUSPECT would fit that description. So focus would be put on finding people matching that description. I also gave a black, and a white scenario. So the color would also be important when rounding up suspects.
NO ... I was thinking Tim McVeigh or the KKK....buy American!
In Iraq, in the name of irradication of terrorists and entirely falsely claiming that Saddam has nuclear war-heads USA opened war on the country and tore it apart. It has been decried by the entire world - even countries like UK who were initially siding with USA, when it was proved beyond doubt they do not have any nuclear weapons. USA used, depleted uranium on Iraq in its attack, and that is to kill and maim people, innocent citizens and even unborn children for years to come now. That will be hundred times more than the 3000 killed in 9/11. So then will the Orientals say, Christians are war mongers?
Have you noticed how most of them don't want to drink with you? I think that shows their essentially unfriendly nature.
Terrorism is actually a big social web, which has caught people across borders, all over the world. Rich, but narrow -visioned governments have been spinning these webs for years, since the cold-war days. After the fall of the Soviet Union it has been a lopsided world - with only one power faction left. The USA-UK one; of which UK remains a lesser player as with its multicultural, colony generated demography, it has to play safe and close at home. But the ugly orgy is now an on going, perpetual game.
I don't know who to pity more, the victim or the 'offender'? Either way, they have been victimized by the state.
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