Is there a problem with sanity on hubpages?

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  1. profile image0
    Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years ago

    At the beginning of February, I had my hub on the Chinese New year removed because, apparently, it had 'unrelated products.' As the only products were made of jade, and as jade is considered extremely lucky in the new year, and I had written about that, the action was either malicious or ignorant. However, I just deleted the hub and took it elsewhere.

    With only a few days to ago, my hub on Understanding Christianity which was published on the 11th January, it has been unpublished on the basis that the products are unrelated and/or there are links that are unrelated.

    Here's the thing. a) there are no products. b) Every single link refers to something being spoken about in the article - and they are all informational, and have nothing to do with any form of marketing.

    So, once more - this is either malicious or ignorant. Nobody who is fair minded or well informed would have deleted the hub.

    I'm not going to request for it to be put up again because it was only a place holder until I was paid out - which, hopefull, will take place in the next few days, and then you can close my account.

    It is absolutely beyond me why anyone running a company would want to indulge in these kind of actions. If the goal is to build a profitable, well working company, then the above actions which are affecting more and more writers, are insane.

    1. Simone Smith profile image85
      Simone Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Indeed, try not to take it personally, Sophia Angelique, and I'm sorry for any confusion!

      If you're not sure what caused the moderation, please do respond to the moderation email notice you received to ask for clarification. Thank you for your patience! We're really not trying to target you or conspire against you... though I suppose what I say as a HubPages staff member could not be trusted... ^_^;;;

      1. profile image0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Simone, I think you're missing the point here.

        This policy has cost me time, energy, money, distress, and more. I don't have time to sit and write to you everytime some half witted moderator on HP decides that they are going to unpublish something I write. It hasn't happened once. It has happened sufficiently enough for me simply to remove something like 250 hubs over the period of the last year and move them elsewhere. In total, I had more than 600,000 hits during those two years. That might not be the very top of the barrel but I think I produced good hubs to get that kind of traffic. And I would have had a lot more if I wasn't systematically removing hubs.

        I remember one case where a hub was unpulblished three or four timse (in fact that happened to a couple of hubs), until eventually, someone wrote on it that the hub was my original work.

        The only way this happens is malice, ignorance (they dont' read and they think they know) and/or malice (they don't like the kind of things they say so they take vengeance.)

        You have a serious problem when you nominate people to carry out certain duties and they're either too dull witted to do it properly or they have some other bug up their sleeves.

        I don't pretend to know what is going on. I do know that I dont' want to deal with it.

      2. Randy Godwin profile image60
        Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        You know Simone, I realize I rant about certain things a bit too much sometimes, but it's because I care about this community of writers.  I also know HP is in a bit of a mess right now, according to some sources.  We all want things to improve around here and I know you do too.  There are some really great writers here and it seems a shame we can't all work together to make HP a better site.  I'm sorry the mistrust is there.  On both ends it seems.

        1. SimeyC profile image86
          SimeyCposted 11 years agoin reply to this


    2. MarleneB profile image92
      MarleneBposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, I know how you feel. There was a time when I felt like I was slowly being iced out. It just seemed like all of my religious based hubs were going idle one by one. So, I emailed the HubPages team. They were candid, but genuine in their response. I was very pleased at the way they handled me and by the time we were done with the back and forth communication, I left feeling like a happy camper. That doesn't mean my stuff doesn't still get idled, it just means that I understand the reason why and I have an opportunity to deal with the hub in the manner that I deem is best for that hub. Sometimes, it means tweaking the hub a little. I might format it differently, or I might do additional research and add a few more resources. Sometimes, it means leaving the hub alone and doing nothing - letting it go bye-bye. I have learned that placing the idled hub somewhere else doesn't serve me well, because the truth is if it doesn't do well on HubPages, then it won't do well anywhere else.

      This is just my personal experience. Other people may have an entirely different experience. All-in-all, once I calm myself down with a cup of tea before sending an email to the team, I am usually happy in the end. Going directly to the moderator and finding out the "why" is what makes the difference. I noticed that when I aired stuff in the forums I just stayed angry, so I took a different approach that seems to be working for me. Get it straight from the horse's mouth and don't stop working with them until you both are satisfied. Does it take up more of your time? Yep! But, anything of value usually does take a little time - like fine wine. I can't just pour grape juice in a bottle and expect to get wine. There is stuff to be done. I now take the wine-making approach to my hubs and now things are working out better. Again, this is just my experience, someone else might have a totally different experience.

      1. profile image0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this


        Forgive me, but I think you're missing the point.

        I'm not a newbie who doesn't know the difference between a profesisonal writer and a newbie. I know how to read TOS and I stick to them. Nor do I wish to waste my time when I am 100% in compliance.

        There is a vast difference between someone who is starting out and a professionbal writer with half a century experience - which is what I am (I was first published in 1963) and if you don't believe that, please google Tessa Schlesinger portfolio. You will find it. If you look at the things that were published in the first few newspaper clippings I give, you will see that they are date stamped. And they have my name on them - all of them!

        I don't want to have to keep emailing the hubteam. If they don't appreciate my writing, that's just fine. There are other people who do.

        So, no, you don't understand at all. You're comparing your situation with mine. Sorry, but there is no resemblance. Not one little bit.

        1. MarleneB profile image92
          MarleneBposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Tessa, I KNOW you. I follow you. You are an excellent writer who has been published all over the place. I get that you are "all that and a bag of chips". I was just sharing my own personal experience. That's why I mentioned it twice in the same comment - so you would get that it is my own experience. Forgive me. I didn't know forums were meant only for one person to share their experience and others not to share theirs. You shared your experience. I was just sharing mine.

          And, now that you have come back at me like that, I'm starting to take an entirely different view of you. You are an above average writer with accomplishments some of us will never experience. But your attitude... well, you might want to take a look at it.

          I'm a published author, too but I don't put it out there every time I want to make a point. I don't presume other people don't understand. I do understand. I was merely sharing.

          1. ktrapp profile image92
            ktrappposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Haha - Made me think of my "Hubber Caller #4" from this thread: … ost2338545

            1. MarleneB profile image92
              MarleneBposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              ktrapp, I'm still giggling. Thank you for that link. Caller #4 needs help. And, I was rolling on the floor with Caller #10.

            2. rebekahELLE profile image84
              rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this


            3. IzzyM profile image87
              IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              I hadn't read that thread.
              What a brilliant post you made over there.  Thanks for sharing smile

  2. wrenfrost56 profile image54
    wrenfrost56posted 11 years ago

    Try not to take it personally I got 'pulled' for unrelated products and links a while ago too, I just changed the product links and all seems to be fine now. smile

    I have just seen your profile and it says you have no featured content. I fear I may have replied to late and you have already left sad

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Nope, I'm only closing the account once I've been paid. The reason there is nothing is that I just had that article there so there was something there. I moved everything else.

      The thing is this: When someone unpublishes an article, if the search engine comes during the time it is unpublished, one gets deindexed. I don't particularly care at this moment. I just think it's an insane way to run a business. One doesn't alienate people who are bringing traffic to one's site.

      1. Rock_nj profile image88
        Rock_njposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        HubPages does operate in mysterious ways.  I read your article about the Chinese new year where you republished it, and I see your mention of jade several times and explaination about why jade is important to the Chinese.  I have no idea what the staff at HubPages is actually like and why they would take such actions against an accomplished writer like yourself, but I can guess.  We are talking about worldy people like yourself writing about topics that some of the editors can't comprehend.  To remove your Chinese new year hub for advertising jade makes me wonder if they ever even read the article or just read the title and looked at the advertisements to make their decision to remove it?

        I said the same thing about the HubPages idle / unFeature / NOINDEX program.  What a crazy way to run a business!.  Just run roughshod over your writers, even ones who have been very productive in bringing traffic to the site, and continue a program that is causing a lot of dissatisfaction amongsts users and even causing long established writers to delete their account.  After many months, it sounds like they are finally taking the complaints into account and changing this wrongheaded program, but it sounds like you won't be around to find out how it works out.  Good luck to you, wherever you wind up publishing your work.

        1. profile image0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Thank you for your comments. Yes, it is frustrating. But it's their loss in the long term. In one way, they won't miss me because they have so many writers. In another way, too many writers have left, and they will continue to leave, and eventually there will be a point when it is the difference between whether the site fails or succeeds...

      2. wrenfrost56 profile image54
        wrenfrost56posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Hubpages is indeed a peculiar beast, not long after I posted here yesterday one of the hubs I was referring to in the forum, that I thought I had 'fixed' got pulled again for the same thing. I did laugh lol I'm just going to try and put it down to experience. tongue

        Where have you put your work now, if you don't mind me asking. If you don't want to share I will understand smile

        1. profile image0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          My work has gone, predominantly to Wizzley and to my various blogs. My writing articles went to Spice of Writing - all my articles about writing. Some went to 'The Easy Life." Others went to 'Capitalsim and You." Essentially, I updated everything (lots of work) and put them where I tought they would fit best.

          That said, I will be focusing on writing books. One of my novels has just made it into round two of Amazon Breakthrough Novel of the Year 2013. Also, i've just got a part time position with an agency writing content (and learning a lot).

          I just started looking for other things because I thought that there was going to be a change in content writing. Here's what I think is going to happen.

          a) The more Google tightens the reigns about publishing unacceptable content, the more various commercial sites are going to be looking for good content writers. The more they look for content writers, the more money is going to be paid to content writers because they're going to become a hot item. It might take a few years but, as far as I can see, that's the trend.

          b) Content sites are going to struggle more and more because they are going to be less and less desirable. Well, either that, or content sites are going to have to reinvent themselves and begin to focus on excellent/professional writers to hold their own against the increasing compeititon. If I owned a content site, I would make them all niche sites. For instance, I would have poetry sites, short story sites, sites for products, sites for information, etc. I would also screen each writer as they came in, guarantee them a certain amount of work, pay them $10 per 500 words (the going rate is between 5 cents and $2.50 for professional writing) and $10 is only 2 cents per word but would be acceptable to some. Then I would give them a percentage of the revenue after they had 25,000 hits on the article. Or something like that.


          1. wrenfrost56 profile image54
            wrenfrost56posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Many congratulations on your success with the breakthrough Novel, I hope it does well for you. I guess in light of everything going on here you deserve some recognition smile

            I also echo the others sentiment that it's always sad to see a good hubber leave, and I for one have witnessed that happening too many times already. sad

            It must have taken a lot of time to move your articles and reformat them, I can understand why you would be peeved.

            I also think you have a good point on the future of content sites and niche markets, yes it probably will take a few years to happen but it definitely does seem to be leaning that way. Good luck with everything and do try not to let it get you down. smile

            1. profile image0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              thank you. smile Wrenfrost. smile

  3. LuisEGonzalez profile image76
    LuisEGonzalezposted 11 years ago

    I hate to see yet another excellent hubber leave, I really feel that HP needs to look at itself a little closer and a bit more critically.................hmm

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you Luis. smile

  4. Randy Godwin profile image60
    Randy Godwinposted 11 years ago

    You aren't the first good writer HP has ran off with their mysterious actions, Tessa.  I fear I won't be far behind you and I suspect a mass stampede when folks realize what's going on.  I'll see you elsewhere, no doubt.  This place may implode with the way things are going now.  Simply mind boggling!!

  5. PaulGoodman67 profile image95
    PaulGoodman67posted 11 years ago

    My experience has been different.  I've had bad moderation decisions more than once, but they've almost always been caused by automatic software applying the rules wrongly - however, the problems were sorted when I emailed HP and a human assessed the issues.

    There's been nothing dramatic, but I have seen a gradual but steady improvement in my hubs' performances over the past 6 months (albeit from a relatively low position).

    I wouldn't describe HP as perfect (all these sites: HP, Squidoo, Wizzley etc. have their glitches from time to time and it can be frustrating), but my personal experience of HP has overall been very positive, so I won't be leaving.

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Paul Goodman, you're also missing the point. There shouldn't have to be moderation decisions on things where there are no issues. I shouldn't have to waste my time. I shouldn't have to have a well performing hub removed , no mater how termporarily. How would you feel if you were hitting 15,000 hits a day, and then someone came along and unpublished it. And because you were somewhere else for the day, you didn't see it immediately, and during the time you were gone, the search engine robot came along, noticed that you had been unpublished, de-indexed you, and then you had to start all over from the beginning.

      If you aren't doing so well, I understand you wouldn't be peaved. Guess what? I was plenty peaved.

      1. Rock_nj profile image88
        Rock_njposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Wow, 15K hits per day for one Hub, and then it was just suddenly removed by HubPages?!?  First off, 15K hits per day for an article is incredible, you must have spent considerable time creating good backlinks and making sure it would show up in search engines!  Second off, HubPages just removes a Hub that is performing this well for some technical violation, without notifying the author that there is a "problem" that they need to correct or at least discuss with HubPages before taking detrimental action?!?  As you said, that is a crazy way to do business!  Do things to anger your most productive writers, and cause them to delete their accounts for things that could be handled in much more user friendly ways.  I understand now why you want to leave this craziness behind.

        1. profile image0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I have never had a backlink in my life. I don't do them because I don't have the inclination or the time to do them.

          I started writing articles on the web in 1999 and, I think, maybe, that has something to do with many of my hubs getting to page one within the first few days or hours. Either that, or I just happen to write about things which are niche topics and few people write about. Of course, it doesn't happen to all of them. And I was being conservative. There have been times when some of my hubs have hit 18,000 to 20,000 hits a day.

    2. TIMETRAVELER2 profile image84
      TIMETRAVELER2posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      PaulGoodman67:  I feel exactly as you do.  When my hubs are idled, I have found there's always a good reason.  I search for it, fix the problem and wind up with a much better hub.  As a result, my numbers and income are inching up as well.

  6. LisaMarie724 profile image68
    LisaMarie724posted 11 years ago

    I was just wondering how Wizzley is?  I've heard of it but really haven't had a chance to look into it.  Although I'm sure wherever you go you'll get tons of traffic, you are very talented.

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      LisaMarie724, I do not get 1/10 of the traffic on Wizzley that I have on HP. Wizzley doesn't rank. HP does. HP probably pays more than most.

      That wasn't the issue.

      The issues were

      a) I don't want to be on a site that mixes personal belief systems with professional work ethics. Religion and politics have no place in the work place.
      b) I prefer to work in a system where reward is based on effort and excellence, not popularity. When people are rewarded for populatiry, in the medium to longer term, because excellence isn't rewarded, the quality of whatever goes down. That's because people who have to depend on popularity to get somewhere generally don't have what it takes to do well based on the quality of their work. As I don't depend on popularity but on the excellence of my work, I prefer to go where that is recognized. In the medium to longer term, it is rewarded. Wizzley is a German company. They reward excellence. I'm sure you have heard of German excellence?
      c) Repeatedly having my hubs unpublished because a) someone didn't like me personally, b) the person didn't read the hub properly and was too ignorant to be given that amount of authority over anyone's work. You get what you pay - or don't pay for - I suppose. However, I don't want to have to pay the price of never knowing from one day to the next whether my hubs were safe or not. I need a certain amount of security and trust when working at something. Otherwise I just plain get discouraged.
      d) I don't appreciate being insulted by anyone. And what has been surprising is that the insulter gets away with it, but I don't. I can only assume a) that the insulter is employed by hubpages and therefore can say and do what they likek b) the insulter is protected by hubpages and therefore can say and do what they like. Take your pick. It's a system of favoratism and I don't work well underneath it.

      One of the strongest reasons I am poorer than a church mouse is because I have never allowed money - or the absense thereof - to stop me from doing the right thing.

      In this case, I sincerely believe that the $500 or so that I earned 2012 isn't worth the distress, the ugliness, and the lack of trust I have in this company. I'd rather not get paid than put up with that.

      1. LisaMarie724 profile image68
        LisaMarie724posted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I can completely understand.  I have read some of your work and couldn't imagine why there would be a problem, like I stated before you have major talent.  Sorry to see such a great writer go, but good luck to you I know you'll do well wherever you end up.

        1. profile image0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Thank you Lisa Marie. I am touched. smile

      2. Rock_nj profile image88
        Rock_njposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Interesting.  Recently with all the QAP talk at HubPages, I have been concerned about who is actually rating my Hubs?  I noticed that Hub hopping allows anyone to rate Hub.  While this may save HubPages a lot of money versus hiring professional and impartial editors, it does seem like a very unfair way to rate other people's work.  Someone that doesn't like someone else can do a lot of anonymous damage to another Hubber's reputation and scoring at HubPages by misusing the Hub hopping rating system.  Perhaps you were a victim of this sort of malicious behavior, and instead of HubPages being fair and impartial, they just took the complaints at face value and took action against your Hubs.  I have read some Hubbers talk about how they hop Hubs looking for ones that are too promotional in their opinion and report them on a regular basis.  Whether they actually read or understand the hubs that they flag is a whole other question?

        1. profile image0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Yup. I'm an atheist and a humanist. To some at HP, this is the a red herring. Everything I say is 'twisted by knives to make a trop for fools.'

          I eventually had a gutful of it.

          And i always noticed that immediately after one of those sessions, something would get unpublished. The reasoning behind this was beyond contempt. Anything was twisted to fit with my supposedly breaking TOS.

          I do not appreciate the thrashing of my good reputation.

          More than this, HP is ultimately responsible for what is published on their pages. I had reached a point where I was willing to take legal action. As things worked out, I got a public apology from one of the biggest offenders.

          In no professional work place does one have to put up with that sort of abuse. The fact that this is the web does not mean it is less of a work place, especially as one is paid...

          When some people from HP came over to Wizzley and, once more, climbed into me, the owner immediately intervened and said that no one was doing that to Wizzley and he closed the thread. Now there's a man I respect.

        2. wilderness profile image95
          wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          "I have read some Hubbers talk about how they hop Hubs looking for ones that are too promotional in their opinion and report them on a regular basis."

          Let them.  You are aware that reporting (flagging) produces only an examination by a moderator that makes any final decision whether to unpublish or not?  Hubbers that consistently flag based on their personal likes and/or dislikes rather than a violation of the rules here will have the "weight" given to their flags decreased. 

          On the other hand if hubbers are actively searching for, and flagging, violations of the rules, more power to them; we need more of them.  It brings those violations to the attention of moderators who can take appropriate action and helps limit the need for those moderators to spend their time reading perfectly good hubs, searching for those same violations.

  7. LindaSmith1 profile image60
    LindaSmith1posted 11 years ago

    I will flag. But, if I am using the Hub Hopper and see a hub that I have no interest in,  I move on. A hub with one paragraph and 5 videos for the rest along with products needs to be flagged. The flagging of the Chinese New Year for Jade was ridiculous, same goes to Christianity hub.

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I find this typical.


      So now, for whatever reason, some hubbers feel that they have to point out that some hubs actually deserve to be flagged. Yes, I'm sure about that. However, the point is that experienced people who write well and don't have problems with their hubs have their hubs flagged. That's the issue. The issue is NOT flagging hubs that need to be flagged.

      Sorry, but I understand that you look, but I don't want to move away from the fact that there are too many hubs that are wrongfully flagged.

      We have to stick on topic.

      I'm gone in two days, so it doesn't matter for me anymore.

      It matters for everybody that is left behind.

      1. wilderness profile image95
        wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        As long as you're discussing good hubs that get flagged, how can you tell that they are flagged?

        1. profile image0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          They're unpublished? One gets a note that says that the hub is no longer published?

          You didn't know that? What planet are you on? smile

          1. wilderness profile image95
            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Have you bothered to read the learning center?  Flagging a hub attracts the attention of the moderator and that's all.  It does NOT notify the author that their hub has been flagged, and authors have no way whatsoever to find out if it was flagged, if the bots caught something or a moderator randomly picking hubs to look at chose yours.

            "However, the point is that experienced people who write well and don't have problems with their hubs have their hubs flagged."  I repeat, how can you tell?  Is the flagger emailing you and telling you they flagged your hub?

            1. profile image0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Excuse me??

              What exactly is the issue here?

              I received an email saying that my hub has been unpublished. I have received too many emails telling me that hubs have been unpublished for a) being duplicates (which they weren't) b) having irrelvant products (which they didn't). I have also have two or three hubs unpublished three or four times despite been reinstated each time WITHOUT my altering a single word on it. Eventually, in about three cases, a note was put up by hub staff that it was totally original and NOT a duplicate.

              Of course, maybe Hubpages didn't actually unpublish my hub. Maybe they were just saying they were unpublishing my hub.

              Nobody is talking about 'flagging' here. Right from the beginning I said I was unpublished. Do you actually have an issue with my being unable to tell whether my hub is published or not?


              1. wilderness profile image95
                wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                From your earlier post in this mini-thread berating Linda Smith about not staying on topic: "The topic is HUBS THAT ARE WRONGLY FLAGGED." and "We have to stick on topic". 

                My bad; I didn't understand that you were actually speaking of "unpublishing" hubs rather than "wrongly flagged" hubs.  Sorry.

          2. psycheskinner profile image83
            psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            There are mutliple ways (automated and manual) to become unpublished, not just from being flagged.

            1. profile image0
              Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              who was speaking about being flagged? I most certainly wasn't. I was quite clear that I was speaking about being unpublished - right from the start.

  8. psycheskinner profile image83
    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    It doesn't matter if a hub is wrongly flagged as the staff person reviewing it will just unflag it.  Flagging in itself doesn't do anything.

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, it actually does matter.

      1. It stops earning money. One of mine that was earning about $10 per day was unpublished.
      2. There's no guarantee that while it is unpublished the search engine robot doesn't come along and deindex it and so one has to start from the beginning.
      3. It's a waste of my time and energy to constantly have to go through hubs, and contact HP to tell them that there's nothing wrong with it.

      Maybe you don't lose money. Maybe you have all the time in the world. Maybe a thousand things. But there are enough of us complaining about this for it to be a valid concern.

      1. psycheskinner profile image83
        psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        It doesn't matter because if the hub is non-compliant, it should be unpublished. If the staff are unpublishing things in error, that is on them and should be exposed and fixed. Hiding the hub from staff achieves nothing.

  9. tirelesstraveler profile image60
    tirelesstravelerposted 11 years ago

    When I wrote a hub on presidents I got shot at for being promotional.  I found that H.P. doesn't like too many links from the same site even if they are pertinent to the subject at hand.  I found different links, with similar information which made H.P. happy and actually improve my hub..

  10. Page1 SEO tactics profile image53
    Page1 SEO tacticsposted 11 years ago

    Wow, there sure has been a lot said here, and though I do agree with quite a bit, I also feel like I should inform those who are having problems with the overly promotional unrelated links name calling, that you can contact HP and let them know that the only unrelated links in your hub are the links put in by their ad words program.  I had to point this out to HP for a different account of mine, as they had tried to claim that their ad words links were mine and unrelated to my topic, then simply told them that if they really wanted  to remove it and miss out on all the daily views I knew it would bring in, that would be fine, as I would be more then happy to save it for the content based community that I am currently developing.

    Though I would like to add a little more on what i agree on to kind of forewarn others.  I have seen prejudice or favoritism here on HP, and they really don't like the out of the box, black sheep, awake type.  However my articles pulled the one account of mine out of the knocked out hubber score their discrimination had caused, and it just made me more determined to get my website built.

    Congrats  on your book Sophia Angelique!

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      For the record, NONE of my hubs were ever overly promotional. I never, never, never use the same link more than twice (which is the limited for TOS) and about 95% of the time link to completely different sites.

      As this post is about the insanity that unpublishes hubs that have NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM, I fail to understand why some have to bring up the topic that there is something wrong with some hubs. I understand that. We understand that.

      There's nothing insane about unpublishing hubs that don't meet the TOS. However, there is something vastly insane about repeatedly unpublishing hubs that do meet the TOS.

      In addition, while there are those whose 'hubs are made better.' well, all I can say is that you should have published them to that standard in the first place. I do. Getting unpublished does NOT make my hubs better. It wastes my time, runs the chance of my hub becoming de-indexed by the search engine, and loses me money.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image60
        Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Strange how some actually don't understand your point, Tessa.  Perhaps this explains a lot of things.  Some have a problem understanding the word "quality" too, now that words mean something different on HP.

      2. Rock_nj profile image88
        Rock_njposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Some of the people who reply to you on this thread appear to be little more than HubPages apologists.  They don't see anything wrong with HubPages losing a talented writer like yourself that contributed to the writing community and drove a lot traffic to the site.  They just cite technicalities that are in place to keep low quality content off the site that are completely irrelevant to your situation.  Keep in mind that you are not the only one leaving for various reasons (many of which have to do with HubPages questionable policies and lack of flexibility when dealing with writer concerns, such as the idle / NOINDEX policy that went into effect in August 2012).  This hub keeps a daily tally regarding how many writers have left HubPages in recent months (some are accounts that HubPages deleted for lack of use, while many other are people who left on their own):  The writer count is down about 90K over the past couple of years, or about 40%.

  11. psycheskinner profile image83
    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    Or perhaps we are just Hubpages pragmatists.  If you disagree with a hub being unpublished, take it up with them instead of blaming whoever you imagine flagged the hub. If it was their mistake, they can correct it.  If it was the hubbers mistake, they can explain it.  At the end of the day, flaggers gonna flag.  No point worrying about that.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image60
      Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      You misspelled "protagonists."  roll

      1. Marcy Goodfleisch profile image83
        Marcy Goodfleischposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        You are funny!  Sharp eyes and wit!

    2. Rock_nj profile image88
      Rock_njposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I think her point was that it should have never gotten to the unpublished stage, if proper controls were in place.  I did read her Hub about the Chinese New Year, and she has a good point that the gem stone that was flagged as inappropriate advertising was mentioned several times in the Hub and advertising does not appear to ve a violation of the TOU, as far as unrelated ads, but the Hub was unpublished anyway.  It seems like it was hastily unpublished without proper review, but I don't know all the facts, so I will reserve final judgement.  In any case, this and other questionable unpublishings are apparently why she is fed up and leaving.  Any sane business orgization would evaluate what is going wrong with their review process to cause such distress amongst established and well received writers, causing them to leave, and make changes to improve the system.

      1. profile image0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Thank you Rock_nj. You are exactly right. You have my word (and my expertise). There was nothing wrong with the hub. There is also nothing wrong with my hub 'Real Christianity." The email that indicates it was 'unpublished' says that it has either products on the page which are irrelevant (I purposely left all products off) so that was complete poppycock. There isn't one link in it that is irrelevant to the content. I am an academic, having being schooled in a very strick academic manner. I check every single link to see if it will stand up to scrutiny. I take a lot of time over things I write. I am also a professional writer - published since 1963. I know and understand the ropes.

        Just reading through this now, it might be that I put a Wizzley link in the comments for someone to sign up to Wizzley. But it didn't say comments. It said my hub.

        Here's the email which I received.

        A link to your Hub: … ristianity

        Dear Sophia Angelique,

        Your Hub has been identified as promoting sites or products unrelated to its content. If this is the first time you've gotten an email like this, don't worry! You'll have an opportunity to fix your Hub.

        Moderator Note: Sophia Angelique 5 weeks ago from Citizen without a Country. Africa. Europe. America. Hub Author

        Thank you, John. I wish you well. smile If you haven't signed up yet, could you sign up under my link? If you have, don't worry. See you there!

        Your Hub has been unpublished. Please remove all links or Amazon/eBay capsules unrelated to your Hub's topic. You might consider adding more original content, and relevant links to other online resources that complement this Hub's topic.

        When you have finished editing your Hub to comply with our Terms of Use, please click the "Submit for Publication" button. We will then review your Hub and publish it if it is no longer in violation. Please note that repeated violations will result in the banning of your account. We encourage you to familiarize yourself with our Terms of Use and our Learning Center before publishing again: … r-Products


  12. psycheskinner profile image83
    psycheskinnerposted 11 years ago

    I think that is a valid point, and the rest is a distraction.  I am sure we would all like clarification one the "overly promotional" issue.

  13. Healthy Pursuits profile image78
    Healthy Pursuitsposted 11 years ago

    Congratulations on your book!

    I'm sorry to see you go, but I can't say I won't be going myself. I have had several hubs unpublished for lack of traffic, and they are getting lack of traffic simply because they are related to certain times of the year. That seems stupid to me.

    I started writing here for extra income a little over a year ago. I haven't enjoyed the odd changes that are going on. I have also had hubs unpublished for reasons that weren't true and with very vague statements that took some time to figure out. 

    I especially find all the craziness of political and religious ranting in the forums totally out of bounds. Why is that allowed here? It's not allowed on other writing sites. It's annoying to be looking at the latest forum posts for writing info and seeing all the crazy titles listed. I agree that it's very unprofessional.

    I haven't written anything for this site since the Christmas season. I can't say what direction I'm going to move to, but have been investigating my options. As I'm a total small fry in the hub world, I know my going wouldn't make even a ripple.

    However, I'm mystified that high performers are not given the extra attention and care that they deserve as the best earners for the website. I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that staffers are making. They should be getting the celebrity treatment, with quick publishing, extra attention if some program finds a reason to set them up for de-indexing, quicker responses, etc.

    Oh, well. I'll look for you in other places. I think I'll be sending some unpublished hubs over to Wizzley. I'll see you there.

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Healthy Pursuits,

      Let me share something with you.

      About three or four years ago, I went to see the editor of the newsroom of one of the leading TV news shows in San Diego. I asked him why I needed a degree in English or communications in order to prove that I can write. He said that I didn't - that any editor can just read the first paragraph and know whether someone can write or not. That's true. It's the way it used to be done for most of the 20th century.  He explained to me that the problem with having an HR apartment do the recruiting is that they have no idea whether someone can write or not. So they ask for the degree - completely unaware that it is not guarantee that someone can write.

      I think something similar is going on here.

      There's this immense belief (and it's a mistaken belief in my opinion) that people orientated people are better for business. They actually aren't. There are increasing studies showing that while people orientated people work well to flatter their colleagues, they are seldom task orientated, and therefore, they don't really know how to do things as effectively as someone who is task orientated.

      I'm guessing here, but I genuinely believe that there are so many erroneous decisions about what should be unpublished is because the people who are doing the unpublishing have absolutely no idea. They're just incompetent, that's all.

      Currently, there is a lot of myth busting going on out there. For instance Barbara Ehrenreich (one of my absolutely favorite people) has just published this book, "How the Relentness Promotion of Positive Thinking has Undermined America." (Metropolitan Books published it, if you are interested.) She is highly respected, by the way.

      The same is beginning to be revealed about people who put people ahead of doing the task correctly. I think hubpages is focusing on giving moderator jobs to two classes of people a) the under skilled because they're cheap to hire b) the kind of people who want to be connected to the 'boss' and therefore offer their services as 'moderators' because they rise through the ranks as a result of connections - not as a result of expertise.

      Needless to say, they don't have the ability to differentiate as to which hubs should be unpublished and which shouldn't. Of course, it could just be sheer malice.

      1. Healthy Pursuits profile image78
        Healthy Pursuitsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I definitely agree with you about the writing! While I can work well with people, I found in my last position, where I had to deal with the public extensively and to supervise others (even though they were very good staff) that I'm more of an introvert than I ever suspected. I think that people who love to work with people should do just that, and those of us who love to write should also follow our preferences, without being viewed as oddballs.

        1. profile image0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Yup. wink

  14. IzzyM profile image87
    IzzyMposted 11 years ago

    I am very sorry to see Sophia Angelique leave.
    Not only because she has become a dear and respected friend, but because she is a writer in the true sense, and she could have taught us a lot.
    She had the ability to write that rare thing - an optimized hub that could naturally attract search engine traffic - without it ever looking like anything other than an expertly written article.
    I have never had a hub hit those magic heights of 15,000 views a day.
    I have had hubs hit 10% of that figure, and can only imagine how badly I would have felt had HP chosen to unpublish a hub while it was actually earning.
    I wish Sophia all the best in her future endeavours elsewhere. HP are unaware of their loss. Writers of Sophia's calibre don't sign up to Hubpages every day. She was one of the best here.
    Unfortunately as we have seen, good writing is a rare thing, and the average to poor writers who find success here are leaving a sad legacy to future generations.
    I feel very strongly that the standard of writing on the web should be a lot higher than it currently is. It doesn't matter what you write about, but there should be no (or minimum) spelling or grammatical errors.
    The upcoming generations learn from us, and if we get it wrong, so do they.

    So, thanks Sophia, for the time you spent here. I hope your future scribblings do well, and fingers crossed you win that Amazon book contest. You deserve it smile

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Izzy.

      I went to work today (my new content writing at an agency I told you about).

      When I got there, I was asked to phone my boss. Apparently he wouldn't be in today. So I called him and he said he would reimburse me for the time I spent traveling to and from the office!

      Now there's respect. smile

      That said, I found - to my surprise - I could write 900 words in 20 minutes of fairly high calibre content. smile

      Yup, it would be nice to be place in the Amazon Breakthrough Novel of the Year Contest, but I'm just happy I got this far! smile

  15. Uninvited Writer profile image79
    Uninvited Writerposted 11 years ago

    I thought she left 2 months ago?

    I'm sure you can find better ways to make money.

    1. psycheskinner profile image83
      psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Apparently she un-left and is now re-leaving. So now we can have another leaving thread.

      1. profile image0
        Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Well, it appears that some of you can't even work out obvious courses of action.

        Obviously, I have to wait until what HP owes me is paid. They won't pay out ahead of time. I would have thought that was obvious. Obviously, what appears obvious to me isn't obvious to you. I wonder why.

    2. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Um, Absolutely, I'm leaving.

      One doesn't just close an account when a website owes you money.

      I waited for the end of January till they paid me what they owed for me December. And as one of my hubs was making money ($106 in eight days), I thought I'd wait until the end of February. So one more day, possibly two. When they pay me out, I will ask them to close my account.

      You didn't think about that????


      1. Melissa A Smith profile image96
        Melissa A Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        You can try "leaving" silently.

        1. IzzyM profile image87
          IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          She could have.

          On the other hand, she could speak up about how unfairly she was treated to try and spare some of us the same grief in the future.

          It would be nice if HP could implement some changes to stem the flow of those leaving.

          1. Melissa A Smith profile image96
            Melissa A Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Seeing this  thread constantly is causing me grief. The end of February can't come fast enough.

            1. IzzyM profile image87
              IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

              Obviously you have issues you have not shared.

              I hope the end of February solves your problems.

        2. profile image0
          Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Why would I want to leave silently?

          This is on the site for HP staff, not for general chit chat. I absolutely and utterly do want to say something - after all, I invested two years of my life here, a considerable degree of time, and I have been messed around by hp in some areas. Why would I not want to say something? And why would I not want to say it publicly? Of course it needs to be said publicly. It's the only way the situaation changes.

  16. paradigmsearch profile image60
    paradigmsearchposted 11 years ago

    Sophia. You are one of my favorite teddy bears. Please don't leave. If you do, I may have to give San Diego my regards. Just kidding. Do hang around. You help make the forums interesting. big_smile

    1. profile image0
      Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      PS. Thank you. smile No point in staying. I work for money. I work when I'm respected. I have no time for stupidity and nastiness. I want to be in places where people are respected for the work they do and when religion and politics aren't part of the work place.

      But thanks... smile

  17. profile image0
    Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years ago

    Bye everybody. Don't want to sit here arguing about it.

    I said my say.

    I'll get paid tomorrow.

    I'll send hp an email as soon as the money is in the bank asking them to remove my account. That's the way it's done.

    For those of you who supported me, thank you. See you around.

    1. gmwilliams profile image83
      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Tessa, I wish you the best in all of your future endeavors.  You are indeed an excellent writer. You will be missed.

    2. Randy Godwin profile image60
      Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Bye Tessa!  I'll see you in other better places.  Unless things improve here soon we'll have no choice but to leave.  smile

  18. Parallels profile image66
    Parallelsposted 11 years ago

    Best of luck in your future endeavors!

  19. Reality Bytes profile image72
    Reality Bytesposted 11 years ago

    Bye Sophia

    Good luck smile

  20. intelpages profile image58
    intelpagesposted 11 years ago

    I think I would have a better understanding of things If I can see the hubs in question. But if I would base everything on what has been discussed I definitely would have to agree with Sophia Angelique on this regard. On this note, I just recently reactivated my account here on HB so I'm definitively wishing the best for myself and hope I won't have this kind of problems.

  21. paradigmsearch profile image60
    paradigmsearchposted 11 years ago

    "Sorry that user no longer exists"...
    WOW! I thought that HP would just close her account as she requested. I didn't think they would actually outright exterminate her... Man, the internet is becoming a tough town...

    1. IzzyM profile image87
      IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I hope they paid her first!

      1. paradigmsearch profile image60
        paradigmsearchposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        I put the odds at virtually 100% that they did. smile

      2. paradigmsearch profile image60
        paradigmsearchposted 11 years agoin reply to this

        Hopefully it wasn't delivered by the above. lol

        1. IzzyM profile image87
          IzzyMposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          I don't think she would care, so long as it was delivered!

  22. Randy Godwin profile image60
    Randy Godwinposted 11 years ago

    And that's the name of that tune!  yikes

    1. paradigmsearch profile image60
      paradigmsearchposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I hope she keeps dropping by your hubs, don't need no account for that...

  23. rebekahELLE profile image84
    rebekahELLEposted 11 years ago

    I can't help but think of those lyrics from Hotel California,
    "Relax, " said the night man,
    "We are programmed to receive.
    You can check-out any time you like,
    But you can never leave! "

    They never really leave...


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